Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: Alex on June 29, 2009, 11:21:50 PM
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Just for fun - a couple of Biarum from today. One is B. ditschianum, which i must say is the most incredibly short-lived flower. The other - well, I'm not sure, but it was sold to me by a reputable Wrexham-based nurseryman as B.ditschianum and my assertion that it could be otherwise was greeted with total disbelief...
Alex
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They don't appear to be the same. do they. Perhaps that the first was very short-lived suggests that it has been pollinated and fertilized?
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Ooh, I do hope so! Hasn't happened in 5 years, though, despite the presence of numerous flies buzzing around the open flower.
Cheers,
Alex
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Alex I am surprised to see ditchsianum in flower now,I understood it was a spring flowering one.
Here is the first of mine in flower which comes from only a short distance from yours in Turkey.I have not identified it yet
Biarum sp. Turkey Dacta
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Very nice, probably a little different to the one I showed?
Ditschianum flowers from July (which is usual) as late as September for me, sometimes almost as the new leaves come up.
Alex
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Another one from Turkey.I have tentatively decided that this and the previous one are Biarum tenuifolium ssp zeleborii
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Wow- so early Tony- do they always flower now? Ours are still resting just now.
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These Turkish ones seem to have popped into flower and also have leaves starting to show.I think this is early but it is the first time I have had these collections in flower so I have no records. Most of my others still seem dormant.
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another Biarum tenuifolium this time from Grazelema in Spain.
I think it is ssp arundanum.
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A note on the difficulties of identifying these Biarum tenuifolium.
I thought I would cut open the flowers of one from Kemer in Turkey and one from Grazelema in Spain both shown earlier.
I would estimate the distance apart to be at least 1000 miles
Clearly I cannot at this stage look at the leaves but the key starts based up on whether the staminoides are hooked or not.
Looking at the one from Turkey it has both hooked(on the right in the picture) and straight staminoides so that is an immediate problem.
The one from Spain has straight staminoides and this means go to 5 in the key which covers two eastern Mediterranean ssp and so cannot be either of these.
The colour of the tube particularly in arum is usually a diagnostic feature which in the case of the Spanish plant is purple but this is not mentioned in the key
I am happy to be corrected but it seems the plants have once again not read the key.
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Your work may not have helped you with identification, Tony, but it is useful in that it shows that too much id work is done on 'type' populations from single locations,on plants that are more variable than books 'allow' for. It is good that you posted pics with collection details, as this is now floating around the internet and may help other people.
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Great plants
Tony, i agree with you that they all are B. tenuifolium, also Alex's one.
You have done a great job by showing the two flowers for comparison.
There is a difference in leaf forms between the tenuifolium subspecies that we cant compare at the moment, but there is a small difference you can notice: the lower staminodes in ssp. arundanum tend to divide into branches, in your flowers there are only a few like that but still a difference, in tenuifloium ssp. zelebori they don't divide.
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Interesting, Oron. So one subspecies is from the West Med and one from the East and this is the difference inside the flowers. Purely out of a desire to know- I wonder what happens to Biarum tenuifolium in the middle? Ideas for your or my next holiday, Tony. I'll try to get to W.Greece if you can cover S.Italy. ;)
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Simon
I agree with you to a certain point..
There are more small differences between Biarum, down here we have 5 species of which 3 are quite similar, and so the color of the inner lower part of the flower and its measures,make also the difference.
B. tenuifolium ssp. arundanum has this multi branched staminoides which are a result of thousands years of evolution and probably has to do with a specific pollinator, it might be that if you grow this species in another part of the world, pollinators will not be able to do their work properly.
On another point of view if one day this species will extinct in the wild in Spain it would be just this ssp. that we would like to return to its native place and certainly not another ssp. from Turkey or elsewhere.
And so the differences are very small and might seem un important for horticulture, but have much importance from a scientific point of view.
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Oron glad you liked them.
Simon I have some from Greece which have not flowered yet so if and when they do I will post pictures.
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Thanks Oron. I am not wanting to be contradictory or argumentative. My point was more from a biological and botanical point of view.
I really do think that for some genera of plants the lines we impose on a genus by splitting into species, or subspecies, can be very arbitrary and artificial. As humans we have a history of scientific reductionism where we have a need to split things up exactly and put them into boxes that are clearly identifiable and separate. I don't think biology always works like this. I think Tony has done the right thing by posting as a species and giving a collection location. These plants may differ slightly in small ways, but if they are from the extremes of a range maybe this is the only reason why they differ. If there are areas where the branched staminoides are mixed with unbranched in the same population- or even in the same plant, will this not mean that naming a plant from one area as a subspecies is no longer necessary?
As growers of orchids it is always interesting to see how 'forms' from some well travelled areas are split into progressivey more and more species and subspecies, as 'revered' botanists tell us that this one differes from that one in its lip shape or length of bract. Yet in some wild populations one finds countless individuals with a whole range of shapes, colours and forms. Here I am thinking of our travels around Bulgaria, a very unbotanised country where we only have one of this and 2 of that- but the wild populations here represent a full range of forms that elsewhere have been moved into separate species. I don't want that to happen here but I also hope that genetic studies will show that some of the splitting that has occurred recently was unnecessary.
Out of interest I have blue eyes and Chris has brown eyes- I am considerably taller than he is, and less hairy- but we are quite happy to both be the same species- although bees seem more attracted to him than me. ;)
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Simon,
That is so nice to you to say that Chris is sweeter than you are. ;) Even if just under the auspices of the bees liking him more than you. ;D
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Simon
I understand your point,
But think of us 'compulsive collectors and various nuts' if we didn't have all these forms, subspecies, hybrids etc., still to put our hands on... we would probably climb the walls... ;)
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Oron's got a point there. Could be cheaper for us "compulsive collectors" though, which could be a good thing. ;)
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Yes- both good points. Splitting helps people who like to collect things, find more things to collect, but it also aids people who sell things, sell more things by giving plants new names.
I like to collect based on locations- so maybe I am as bad in a way- but I like to see if there any differences myslef in plants from widely separated locations, which may represent drift or variation in a species, than obtaining a plant with slight differences which have been the reason for publishing a new paper citing a new plant name.
Crime of crimes- I then like to cross-pollinate these plants to see what happens- if anything in the following generations. This is my way of avoiding climbing the walls. ;)
PS I think the bees prefer Chris because they get a reaction.
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another biarum in flower today.I think it is Biarum tenuifolium from Antequerra in Spain.The smell(stench)is quite awful and filling the greenhouse
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So perhaps it's as well we can't click a "smell" button. :)
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Memo to self: "check where I put the pot of plants removed from the garden in the spring." These came from Corfu and flower reliably every year, but I decided to try some inside. Now where are they?
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Just wait! ;D
Susan
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Ah I see, er ............ smell! ::)
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three more biarums in flower. The first I think is
Biarum tenuifolium ssp tenuifolium from Greece
The second I have as Biarum ohridense from near Lake Ohrid in Macedonia. This is no longer a valid name as it has gone into something else as a ssp but I cannot find the reference.
The third is Biarum tenuifolium ssp idomenaeum from Crete
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Very nice Tony. They all have a slight lean on. Is it towards the sun?
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no the spathe curls backwards as it develops and so they appear to lean.
The last time the sun came out was last saturday,it has rained every day apart from then for three weeks!
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Oh God, how can you live in a climate like that? ???
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Lovely Biarums Chris, Tony, et al. Thanks for posting your interesting images.
Talking about naming for naming's sake - there are still nurseries about (reputable ones too!) selling seeds / plants with names that were last changed in the early 20th century! Taking "Imitaria muirii" (a succulent plant) for example, it has been known as Gibbaeum nebrownii since 1937 and yet is still being marketed under the old name of Imitaria. I don't think this is a case of ignorance - it is a case of selling more seed / plants >:(
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Oh God, how can you live in a climate like that? ???
Something we ask ourselves most days,we should have moved when I retired. The plus point though is we are able to grow a great range of plants.
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Me too Tony. I still have the feeling that I should move back to Yorkshire before it's too late but Mrs N would take a lot of shifting. I'm fed up of needing webbed feet!
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I never did find my Biarum tenuifolium that I have potted up! ??? Here it is struggling through a gentian and a persistant weed (Viola sp.) in my garden. I have since dug up this group and separated a dozen Biarum tubers, half of which I replanted, minus the gentian and viola. The other half I've put in a terracotta long Tom.
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We can grow a great range of plants in a DECENT climate. ;D
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Two more biarums in flower.
The first I think is Biarum carratracense from Granada in Spain and the second is Biarum tenuifolium from the Peloponnese.
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Flowering here now- what I presume is Biarum tenuifolium.
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Biarum tenuifolium in my bulb frame
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Noticed the comments on Biarum ditschianum back on page 1. Alex - my plants from the same nurseryman were certainly B.ditschianum and also flowered in June (their first flowering here). I was very relieved to see your comment on how short a time the flowers live. Mine were just showing above the compost one day and had shrivelled when i next visited the greenhouse two days later. I assumed they had aborted due to my doing something wrong. Perhaps not eh? I must take a day off work when I see the bud next year!
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And sit by the plant with a camera, a book, a choc bar and a cup of tea, in order to record the event? ;D
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Certainly the camera and chocolate but I think it might need to be a nice refreshing beer or two if I'm sitting in the greenhouse in June! I apologise in advance for the resulting camera shake. Heady stuff that chocolate... ;)
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Thanks, Darren - he did send a replacement the next year which hasn't flowered yet, so I will hold out some hope for that. My big B. ditschianum pot is still throwing up flowers after a couple of months, amazing really, it's never done this before. I hope it won't be too weak after this grand effort. It seems there's no seed, unfortunately, perhaps because I've only got one clone.
Alex
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B. ditschianum, which I bought from PC is growing very well, every year producing a lot of leaves and also many offsprings in the ground, but the tuber is not becoming bigger - so it has never flowered.
Can anybody recommend me something, that I will see also some flowers?
Alex, the picture of your ditschianum is very nice!
best greetings,
massonia
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Hi,
Please can anybody inform me who is PC,forgive my ignorence, ??? ??? ???
Thanks
Guy ;) ;)
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Guy, it is Paul Christian, http://www.rareplants.co.uk/
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Thanks Maggi,
Should have coped that (menopausal memory loss) :o :o :o ??? ??? it solves a clue !!!
Best Wishes,
Guy
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Here's my Biarum marmariensis, which, this time last year, was a single non-flowering tuber.
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Good increase, Anthony... sweet little thing, isn't it?
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Cute, isn't it. 8)
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If only Arum pictum would flower as well! ::)
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Hi Massonia,
Very funny you say that - the replacement plant I was sent by PC when I complained that the first one was B. tenuifolium has behaved the exact same way over 2 years now - arrived as a small tuber and is now about 7 small tubers. I normally do quite well with this sp., so i was wondering what was up - dodgy clone possibly?
The plant I showed was from the now no longer extant Monocot nurseries, a much more reliable outfit when it was trading.
Alex
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Anthony
very nice. I have been unable to flower it here and just like Alex I find mine divides freely so I have numbers of offsets. I am going to put it in a very hot spot next summer and sss if this has any effect.
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Anthony,
The Arum pictum flowers easily here for me, yet the davisii (and ssp marmariensis) are almost impossible for me to flower it seems. :-\ Interesting you have the reverse (and maybe a clue as to why)
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Hi Alex,
thank you very much for your comment, although it sound not very encouraging! ;) But I am also asking myself if it is really ditschianum! Unfortunately this would not be the first time that the mentioned nursery mixed up something in my order! I made this experience several times! Unfortunately I always got common species, instead of the rare ones! :(
Does anybody now a source for a real ditschianum?
thank you!
massonia
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Count yourself lucky - most of the plants I have had as Biarum davisii have turned out to be Biarums of the 'tenuifolium' ilk come flowering time!
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I've never yet had a flower on any of them. Probably not hot enough here in the south of the country and failing a small glass house....... ???
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Lesley,
I have friends who grow and flower Biarum far better than me down near Hobart in Tas, If you're going to put up a glasshouse for them, why think a "small" glasshouse...... go for a large one and then you can really go crazy. ;D ;D
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I know this thread is old but i had (prematurely) replied to Alex that my B. ditschianum from PC were true to name. One of them has just flowered as a B tenuifolium form so it seems I have rogues too!
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a couple of biarum sp in flower.
Biarum sp from Greece,Mt Parnassus
Biarum sp from Spain,El Torqual
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a couple of pictures of Biarum ohridense
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Tony what a thing Biarum ohridense is :o :o
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Mmmm very odd. 8)
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Biarum bovei ssp bovei is flowering now
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Been sorting through some images for a talk and came across this Biarum from the Zagros Mountains in Iran. April or May flowering. Any ideas of species would be most appreciated - It doesn't seem to be any of the species depicted in Peter Sheasby's Iran/Turkey book.
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The only one I can find in Iran is BB. bovei and that is hysteranous and so it cannot be that. I think it is most likely an eminium.
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Dave, Tony
It is B. straussii,
It is the only Biarum species that has the flower in the middle of the leaves, and it grows in Iran and Iraq.
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Many thanks Oron for this ID, much appreciated.
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Oron you are of course correct,I had missed it when reading the monograph. Thanks for the correction.
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Tony,
I can't find reference to Biarum ohridense in the monograph (maybe I'm missing it). Do you have any info on it? Nearest relatives or synonyms perhaps? It is a lovely plant and of course I've seen your plants in real life at our group meetings in the past. I have a small offset from one of your plants but it has not flowered yet.
Darren.
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Tony,
I can't find reference to Biarum ohridense in the monograph (maybe I'm missing it). Do you have any info on it? Nearest relatives or synonyms perhaps? It is a lovely plant and of course I've seen your plants in real life at our group meetings in the past. I have a small offset from one of your plants but it has not flowered yet.
Darren.
Biarum ohridense is not a described species as far as I can find and to me the plant looks more like a form of the variable B. tenuifolium.
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Darren
I too have been unable to find any reference to it in the monograph.
My plants came from Monocot Nursery many years ago under the number MT4629 which I think is a Mathew Tomlinson collection. I see it is also sold under the name B. ohridense by Christian. I think as this name has been around for a number of years this is an omission from the monograph.
Whilst it may be a form of B. tenuifolium I find it very different in the way it flowers in that in most tenuifolium the spathe is upright until it withers when it shrivels or folds back but in ohridense it folds over forwards closing of the tube whilst still fully in flower.
Looking at a group of biarum in the subgenus biarum in flower it stands out as being clearly distinct
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Tony,
IPNI does not mention Biarum ohridense and usually it is very upto date but certainly would include any new species upto 2009. Therefore I do not think it is a validly published name. The monography by Peter Boyce is from 2008 so would definitely have included it if it was a true species, very few Araceae taxonimists are more thorough in their approach than Peter.
Tenuifolium is a widespread and subsequently variable species (look at the number of varieties described for this species) but it is always very important to have pictures of the true flowers contained inside the spathe tube in order to identify Araceae as things like the shape & arrangement of the male flowers, female flowers and neuters often are the most reliable characters to distinguish species on. Spathes in Araceae usually vary the most of any flowerpart and are the least reliable characters to use in discerning between closely related species unless the shape is truly unique. Also be aware that what is most often encountered in cultivation of a species does not necessarily mean is typical for a species. Your plant is attractive though.
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Pascal
I was not trying to indicate it was a different or new species only that the name had been around a lot longer than the monograph.I would also add that I have had the opportunity to observe many species of both arum and biarum in the wild and the variations seem endless.I have also distributed many specimens to a number of 'experts' and have had multiple identifications.
Last year we had a brief discussion on identifying biarums using the true flowers as indicated in the monograph key. I put up a picture of a spathe cut open to display the flowers of two species of known origin and in my opinion this proved the key to be quite inconclusive as neither of the specimens fitted.
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Last year we had a brief discussion on identifying biarums using the true flowers as indicated in the monograph key. I put up a picture of a spathe cut open to display the flowers of two species of known origin and in my opinion this proved the key to be quite inconclusive as neither of the specimens fitted.
Lol..., don't let Peter hear about that.... ;)
Do you have a link of that discussion?
Too bad the trade sometimes "invents" species which are hard to get rid of once they are on the market and create confusion.
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Thank you Tony and Pascal for your replies to my question. I had noticed that Paul Christian also lists this and there are assorted hits on the name if googled (under various spellings!). Whatever the taxonomic status, as a gardener I agree that it is distinct due to the behaviour of the spathe, which makes it rather more attractive than most B. tenuifolium.
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Last year we had a brief discussion on identifying biarums using the true flowers as indicated in the monograph key. I put up a picture of a spathe cut open to display the flowers of two species of known origin and in my opinion this proved the key to be quite inconclusive as neither of the specimens fitted.
Do you have a link of that discussion?
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3776.msg100991#msg100991 which is reply 9 on page one of this thread. :D
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Oops, silly me.....
I quess I was too lazy to search.... :-[
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Last year we had a brief discussion on identifying biarums using the true flowers as indicated in the monograph key. I put up a picture of a spathe cut open to display the flowers of two species of known origin and in my opinion this proved the key to be quite inconclusive as neither of the specimens fitted.
Lol..., don't let Peter hear about that.... ;)
Do you have a link of that discussion?
Too bad the trade sometimes "invents" species which are hard to get rid of once they are on the market and create confusion.
Pascal thanks for your email and I will reply direct and thanks to Maggi for the link to last year which I see Pascal has now looked at and I hope you find it interesting.
I think we must not take discussion to be criticism and clearly in the world of botany as in many others differences of opinion will on many occasions never be reconciled hence the numerous name changes which by implication indicate the previous author was wrong and the latest is correct (until it is changed back or given some other name).My understanding is that this particular plant was originallycollected by Brian Mathew who as we know is very highly regarded and it would be interesting to know who put a name to it.
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Posted this elsewhere, but should have been here....B. ditschianum today
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Posted this elsewhere, but should have been here....B. ditschianum today
Alex is it in flower now?
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It is indeed - my experience with this over the last few years has been that it puts up flowers sporadically any time between late July and mid October.
Alex
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I got flowers 2 month's ago !
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Love that little guy.... Can't wait to find it over here.
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Pascal told me about the Biarum thread running here and suggested I add a few stray thoughts.
The origin of the name ‘ochridense’ is amusing. Brian Mathew showed me MT4629 (indeed Mathew & Tomlinson) flowering at Kew in the late-80s, at a time when the 'end' of Arum was in sight I was just beginning to consider tackling Biarum and Eminium. Rather than treating the various morphs as subordinate taxa I was at that time mentally splitting Biarum tenuifolium into separate species (my standard approach at the start of a new study - on the basis that it's easier to lump later than untangle later) and since this plant just didn't match 'typical' tenuifolium , and further didn't seem to have an applicable taxonomy, in line with my (and most other botanists) standard technique I assigned it a 'working name' as a means of having a convenient nomenclatural handle to avoid the cumbersome 'tenuifolium from Lake Ochrid' appellation. Somehow or other this working name filtered into the trade and a 'reputable Wrexham-based nurseryman' snapped it up to use in his catalogue.
There is still much to do with tenuifolium, and I am the first to admit that the taxonomy of this part of the genus is by far the weakest in the monograph. However, subtle as the differences are, taken empirically (that is to say morphology+ecology+phytogeography) by and large the taxonomic divisions I proposed DO work most of the time. Regarding zelebori, the stout, club-like spadix appendix that sub-equals the spathe limb is absolutely consistent. Similarly the green terminal portion of the spathe limb in abbreviatum holds true as a reliable character, and while these and other solitary morphologies (e.g., the leaf rosette of idomenaeum are alone not enormously convincing, when combined with the phytogeography of these taxa they seem to hold true.
Regarding flowering time, it is important to remember that these are notoriously plastic, even in the wild, but that the 'general' period does hold true.
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Greetings, Phymatarum, it is good to have your contribution.
Would you care to introduce yourself to the Forumists? :)
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Greetings, Phymatarum, it is good to have your contribution.
Would you care to introduce yourself to the Forumists? :)
Sorry Maggi, I probably should have mentioned that I was going to ask Peter Boyce, the author of the monograph on Biarum, if he knew where the name Biarum ohridense came from.
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Pascal, thank you for this note......I would not have realised that from the "nickname -Phymatarum": how good it is to have such an "Aroider" as Peter to advise on matters. My thanks to you and to Peter for coming to help out.
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Pascal
that is a super explanation from Peter and thank you both for it.My only question is ,is it being placed in tenuifolium and if so which ssp?
My B. ditschianum flowered in early July when we were away and so I have not seen it in the flesh.
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Dear Maggi et allii,
Apologies that my posting was somewhat cloaked - not at all my intention, just the result of the state of what passes for my brain after a day spent ploughing thorough a thesis purportedly written by someone with both knowledge of the English language and ability in natural sciences. All I can say it it would have been nice if they'd removed the hyperlinks for the copy, cut and pasted text...
To more serious matters. Tony: 'ochridense' falls unequivocally into ssp. abbreviatum.
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Peter, it's a real pleasure to "meet" you.
Your description of your irksome day was heartfelt and I am sure many can sympathise with such travails, which can exhaust one twice as fast as a day of "hard labour" ;D
( I was going to say "chopping wood" but while that might be the back-breaking physical task of the moment for many in the rapidly cooling north at this time or year, it is hardly likely to be the case in Malaysia where Peter probably has more need of air conditioning than a roaring fire!)
But back to "more serious matters", as you say...... It is most helpful to have some definitive answers to the ID questions that so vex us with so many plants.
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Biarum pyrami from Turkey flowering for the first time for me. The spadix is about 25cms high and the spathe length about the same.
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Tony, nice plant. How long does biarum bloom? Very Shortly like arum or weeks like arisaema?
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Hagen two days!!
I wonder why I grow them.
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to show us this unusual flower!!! Thank you :)
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Hagen two days!!
I wonder why I grow them.
Tony
Congratulations, it is a real beauty.
I often ask my self this question and just got to the conclusion that this is one of the most fascinating genera to grow, feels almost like raising an ugly pet... ;)
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I like that Tony - nice red colour.
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I also agree with you all about this fantastic genus.
here are two members, first is B. ochridense and Biarum sp. does anybody have an idea ?
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Fred with regard to Biarum ochridense see reply 82 which discusses its naming.
(previous page of this thread: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3776.msg166057#msg166057
No help on the other one. Do you know its origin?
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Superb Plants and artistic pictures Tony and Fred!
Here also Biarum pyrami started (and finished) to flower.
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Hans that is good it looks just like in the wild. Better than in a pot in the wet north.
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Hans that is good it looks just like in the wild. Better than in a pot in the wet north.
And look at the Oncocyclus forest behind it.... ;)
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Biarum auranticum a gift from Oron flowering for the first time for me.
I must admit I am having difficulty applying this plant to the one described in the monograph
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Tony
It is wonderful that you menage to grow this extremely rare species, it isn't an easy one as it needs cold winters and boiling summers...
I think your plant hasn't reached its full potential yet, attached a photo from the Hauran region [Syria] where this species got his name from.
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BEAUTIFUL images of B. auraniticum. When I was working on Biarum years back I tried to get to the B. auraniticum site from the Syrian side, but was unable to get in as it's on the edge of the Golan Heights with the border of Israel which, in 1986 was DEFINITELY not a place easy to reach!
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By the way, Biarum auraniticum isn't always so pure yellow. The spathe can be stained to varying degrees pale to medium purple, and the spadix appendix can also be purple. See:
http://www.bulbsociety.org/GALLERY_OF_THE_WORLDS_BULBS/GRAPHICS/Biarum/Biarumlist.shtml
http://flora.huji.ac.il/browse.asp?lang=en&action=userfiles&userid=492&page=6
http://nl.treknature.com/gallery/photo221140.htm
(edited by Maggi to show links more clearly)
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Peter
There are more photos of it on the early Biarum thread starting October 29, 2008.
Sorry not sure on how to attach it here...
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Here's the link:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2619.msg60122#msg60122
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Maggi you are a magician, thanks :D
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Thanks Maggi, Oron. Sadly cannot grow them here any easier than I was able to do in the UK. For a while Tony (Hall, Kew) had a few of the middle east ones (angustatum, syriacum, aleppicum) but they did not prosper even under Tony's extraordinary talent!
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Oron, I'm sceptical that the pyrami (on the link Maggi posted) is correctly named - it looks to be bovei.
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Oron, I'm sceptical that the pyrami (on the link Maggi posted) is correctly named - it looks to be bovei.
Peter,
B. bovei is rare in this area and can be found growing only in 3 areas, Upper Galilee, Mt. Hermon and Golan Heights, at elevation above 900m [sharing same habitat of Iris histrio].
B. pyrami is very common [many thousands in some sites], it is a low elevation plant 0-400m, the plants in the photo [just opening], are from an area close to the sea at about 60m. it is a well known B. pyrami site.
Any way I'll probably pass there soon and so i'll send a photo of a cut flower.
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Superb plants with an unique colour, Tony and Oron!
Thanks for the comments - Oron, I also like the "forest" very much ;)
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a picture of the Biarum auraniticum a couple of days later taken by Mrs W. whilst I was away. Much more like the one shown on the Bulb Society website. I had thought it was fully developed when I posted the first picture as the smell in the greenhouse was disgusting indicating it was mature(perhaps not)
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Fantastic plant Tony !!! Congratulation as I think it's not easy to grow at all.
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Never mind growing it - congratulations to Mrs W for braving the stench to photograph it! :D
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Superbly grown, Tony.
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This Biarum tenuifolium subsp. idomenaeum flowered 1 months ago
I was to buzzy to post so a little later
Plants where collected at Erice in Sicily
Roland
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Here is one I should have posted a few weeks ago. No smell as I recall :-\
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Here is one I should have posted a few weeks ago. No smell as I recall :-\
Still happy with this one now Ian. If I have to choose only one Biarum , it must be davisii !
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Nice plants from all.
This morning Janis and myself went to the Upper Galilee region where we have encountered this magnificent specimen of B. bovei.
We never seen something this size, a real giant of about 30cm in height.
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Nice plants from all.
This morning Janis and myself went to the Upper Galilee region where we have encountered this magnificent specimen of B. bovei.
We never seen something this size, a real giant of about 30cm in height.
Very nice indeed Oron, do we have to name it as bovei forma giganteum ? ;)
As we can see Janis enjoyed it also...
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Very nice indeed Oron, do we have to name it as bovei forma giganteum ? ;)
As we can see Janis enjoyed it also...
giganteum extra foetidum... ;)
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Here is one I should have posted a few weeks ago. No smell as I recall :-\
Still happy with this one now Ian. If I have to choose only one Biarum , it must be davisii !
Kris Me too
Very nice indeed Oron, do we have to name it as bovei forma giganteum ? ;)
As we can see Janis enjoyed it also...
giganteum extra foetidum... ;)
Oron I take it that you didn't need your eyes open to find it ::)
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Superb Oron !
also remember there were some with seeds growing with Allium esclepiadeum.. Is it the same place ?
Wonderfull plant anyway
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Oron that is wonderful.
Ian a great success,I just cannot flower either davisii or marmariense,not enough warmth I think.
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Here is a small collection of autumn-flowering Biarum from S Turkey: Biarum bovei, B. eximium, B. kotschyi and B. pyrami from my website http://keesjan.smugmug.com
This year I searched for B. davisii ssp. marmarisense, but found no trace of this apparently rare species on the Datca Peninsula.
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Kees
you will have seen from my report that I also looked for B. davisii ssp. marmarisense but on the Bozburun peninsular near Taslica. There were what appeared to be lots of a biarum in leaf but if it had flowered I was clearly too late on the 4th November. The ground was very wet from rain in the previous weeks although on that day it was full sun and about 25c. growing with them were lots of fine Narcissus serotinus.
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Here is Biarum davisii ssp. davisii photographed in Crete, autumn 2005. Quite a rare plant, only found a few. (More pics at http://keesjan.smugmug.com/Botanical-trips/Europe in the Crete gallery.)
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Superb picture Kees !
It's really one of my favourite flower ! seems to be alive, ready to walk like an impish
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First Biarum for this year: Biarum ditschianum -one of the few spring flowering species (even it seems to flower in summer or autumn for most forumist).
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very very early Hans :o
do you get seeds from it ?
I never ahd seeds from this species...
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It flowers the first time here (was given a small offset two years ago of a plant which flowered in August). So I do not know if it will produce seeds. Comparing with most dates of pictures I have seen it is quite early, on the other hand the first introduced plant also flowered in May (and died afterwards ::)) - please have a look: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-8748.1995.tb00505.x/abstract
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do you get seeds from it ?
Maybe, if the fly did its job :D ;)
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Waoooo !
superb picture Hans !!!
by the way, I just had a look to my Biarum pots : B. ditschianum and B. sprunerti are starting to emerge from the ground... very strange season :o ???
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Biarum tenuifolium produces the seed in my bulb bed below the ground surface.
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my first of the year which seems very early
Biarum tenuifolium ssp zeleborii
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Tony, you grow many aroids. In your opinion, abbreviatum and zeleborii are ssp. of tenuifolium at a first glance? Do you have to look at the flowers to tell them apart?
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Alberto
I can send you a revision of B.tenuifolium
just pm me
Roland
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Alberto see reply 9 in this thread page 1 on 10th July 2009 and the comments that followed.
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Another one from Turkey,it is only 8cms tall.
Biarum tenuifolium ssp zeleborii Turkey Uzumlu 7 July 11
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Biarum ditschanum in flower now,rather an odd time as I would have expected in about May.
This came from Kurt Vickery and has grown well in frost free conditions
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Great photos, Tony
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Just catching up with this thread and what a pleasure it is.
Franz, I see you are growing pearls now. :)
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Those "Tony Hall" environs look so natural.
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Another picture of Biarum ditschianum which has moved on since I first showed it. I did not realise it would elongate and show its flowers and pollen.
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Is it leaning towards sunshine, Tony?
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Is it leaning towards sunshine, Tony?
No all biarums seem to have a leaning spadix at some stage. All the polen has dropped down and I am wondering if it will be self fertile,time will tell.
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Thanks.
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I love the Biarum ditschianum, which I've only ever seen on these forums. So different with the inflated spadix.
Fraz,
Many of the Biarum produce their seed at or below ground level. My Biarum dispar does it, occasionally pushing a head up out of the ground. I usually only find them by accident later on in the season after everything has disappeared. ::)
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My poor Biarum tenuifolium must at present bear a temperature of 37° C.
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Seems that it will be a good season for Biarum davisii as several buds are emerging from the ground :)
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2 more flowers :)
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Fred what a stunning photo - a strange plant that reminds me of white penquins for some reason.
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Two Biarums blooming just now in my greenhouse
Biarum tenuifolium and
Biarum zelebourii
Janis
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2 more flowers :)
Is it in your garden or in pot ?
Horrible to get good picts of pot-culture.....
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Of the many hundreds of plants we all grow and see here on the different parts of the Forum, surely Biarum must be the most strange? 8)
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Biarum davisii is flowering here now too.
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Biarum season starts here,
The first to bloom is the rare B. angustatum restricted to a narrow coastal strip in N. Israel and Syria.
Easy recognised by the narrow 'leg', all other species in the area have a swollen leg.
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While at home the Spanish B. carratracense has opened this morning.
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Nice pictures Oron, and very interesting to see the open spadix, which is essential for identification.
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The rare Biarum auraniticum, known only from the Golan Heights [Syrian territory] and the Hauran region in SW Syria.
Each flower has its own color from Green -yellow to rusty, hard to find two similar flowers.
These photos are from this morning.
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Lucky you are Oron !
gorgeous pictures of this rare and so nice Biarum.
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Wonderful Oron,
very beautiful coloured flowers!
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Easy recognised by the narrow 'leg', all other species in the area have a swollen leg.
They have my sympathies. I hope they don't get cramp as well. Pure hell here at present. :'(
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I bet it's less than a foot tall! 8)
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Thought it was time I shared some of my Biarums.
Here are photo's of some of the more interesting one's that have flowered so far this season.
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Oups !
where are the pics ?? ???
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Hello David, good to see you here and to have you begin to show these photos.
I have resized the Biarum carratracenseJCA5478 photo to be 800 pixels wide.... that is the maximum size preferred for the forum.
To add more than one phot to each post, click the (more attachments) button and you can load up to ten photos per post.
Hope this helps? :)
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better now ;D
Thank's from froggy Maggy :P
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Yeah, I realized that the size was wrong so went away to resize others.
Trying again now, hope its right this time.
Biarum.....
carratracense PB434
carratracense S coll B37
davisii SBL286
eximium WK#1
eximium WK#2
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Now I seem to have got that right here are a few more.
Biarum.....
kotschyi JCA17946
kotschyi JCA
kotschyi NS
marmarisense CRL526
mendax S coll1
mendax S coll2
rhopalospadix SL229
sp. nova MS
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David,
WOW, those caratracense's and those kotschyi's are STUNNING!!!
Thank you so much for sharing these here.
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These are terrific David! Thanks for posting them.
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SUPERB David !!!
which size are the pots ? I ask you because I have more success growing them in the ground than in pots....
Here is a Biarum crispulinum
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What a selection! And all growing well for you David.... almost as attractive a Crocus! ;)
I have added the picture names to the text of your posts to allow the photos to be found by the forum search facility and search engines.
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Thank you Maggi, I expect a few people will understand the Crocus reference.
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Fred
The pots are all clays plunged in a sandbed in a greenhouse.
Weather in my part of UK (s.e. England) in winter is not good enough to allow growing outdoors except for the tenuifoliums.
Pot sizes are variable from 4" to 8" depending on the size and number of tubers in the pot.
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Thought it was time I shared some of my Biarums.
Here are photo's of some of the more interesting one's that have flowered so far this season.
David - a belated welcome to the forum.
Very interesting Biarums, though not quite as attractive as a crocus.
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Thank you Maggi, I expect a few people will understand the Crocus reference.
I rather think so, David... there are a great many "Croconuts" around here and your name comes up all the time!
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Thank's david.
Here too winter is too wet and cold bulb under water protection cover, they do quite well.
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David,
Welcome to the forum, glad we have another Biarumist here.
That is a fantastic selection!!!
Can you tell where the Sp. nova is originated to?
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David,
Welcome to the forum, glad we have another Biarumist here.
That is a fantastic selection!!! Can you tell where the Sp. nova is originated to?
Hello Oron. The sp. nova was collected in 1987 by Mike Salmon on Crete. It was sent to Peter Boyce who verified it as a new taxon but it has never been published. It needs more field work to come to any firm conclusions. I keep promising myself a trip one day. David
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Thought it was time I shared some of my Biarums.
Here are photo's of some of the more interesting one's that have flowered so far this season.
David - a belated welcome to the forum.
Very interesting Biarums, though not quite as attractive as a crocus.
Gerry, good to hear from you. The Crocus took such a hammering in the February freeze that there is not much flower to show this autumn, so I thought I'd share the Biarums instead.
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The rare Biarum auraniticum, known only from the Golan Heights [Syrian territory] and the Hauran region in SW Syria.
Each flower has its own color from Green -yellow to rusty, hard to find two similar flowers.
These photos are from this morning.
Phantastic beauty. Pity, didn't see when visited you - still between our (my and Guna's) best memories.
Janis
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Thank's Janis.
David
So is it the same species Kurt V. showed me with leaves at flowering time?
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Oron, yes. I was just discussing this with Kurt. My plant had no leaves at flowering time but his and Mike's did.
David
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And now for some tenuifolium's.
I agree with Tony Willis that trying to assign a specific epithet to tenuifolium s.l. based on the published morphological criteria is not always (not often) possible. The plants just don't conform. I work on the following principle:
If the plant has staminodes as well as pistillodes it is tenuifolium s.l. (although the staminodes are sometimes vestigial nearly to the point of absence)
If the plant is from Italy or the Balkans is is ssp. tenuifolium unless it has a green top to the spathe when it is ssp. abbreviatum.
If the plant is from the Iberian peninsula or North Africa it is ssp. arundanum.
If the plant is from Crete it is ssp. idomenaeum.
If the plant is from Turkey and its surrounding islands it is ssp. zelebori.
Biarum tenuifolium ssp. galiani is missing from the list because the differentiators described by Talavera are just too tenuous.
Great weight is given to the morphology of staminodes and pistillodes; whether they are whorled, hooked, branched, peg like et al.
I have seen many plants including in the type sites that just don't have the required characteristics; most arundanum's and galiani's I have seen do not have branched staminodes or pistillodes; I have many ssp. tenuifolium with short fat appendices rather than the long slender ones they are meant to possess. I have ssp. zelebori with spathes 5 - 8 cm long rather than bulky inflorescences of 20 - 40 cm.
I am very pleased that earlier in this thread Peter Boyce stated that the least convincing part of his monograph were the tenuifolium's.
Anyway here are photo's of a few of the tenuifoliums in my collection, check out the variation, and the arundanum with a double spathe.
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David
some fine looking plants.
I saw a few Biarum pyrami in flower near Akseki yesterday. It is very dry and they were quite stunted,still nice to see
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Here are 2 Biarum ( I think it's the same species ) flowering now. They come from North Syria, and could be B. aleppicum because it doesn't look like B. bovei which also grows in this area.
Any advice welcome :)
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Here are 2 Biarum ( I think it's the same species ) flowering now. They come from North Syria, and could be B. aleppicum because it doesn't look like B. bovei which also grows in this area.
Any advice welcome :)
Always difficult to tell from photographs, with Biarum it is necessary to examine a range of morphological features, some of which can only be seen clearly if you dissect the plant!!
However, they both look like they could be B. aleppicum. The narrow spathe tubes and what appears to be little to no connation of the tubes is indicative of that taxa.
David
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Thank's David !
It also could be B. carduchorum, but I'll dissect the plant today and will post the pictures.
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Thank's David !
It also could be B. carduchorum, but I'll dissect the plant today and will post the pictures.
Fred
I thought about carduchorum; it will depend upon the degree of connation of the spathe tube.
B. aleppicum should have a fully open tube i.e. no connation whereas carduchorum should have 75% of the tube closed.
David
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Well David, according to P. BOYCE's monograph, seems to be B. aleppicum :-)
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Well David, according to P. BOYCE's monograph, seems to be B. aleppicum :-)
Fred
I think it is a close race between aleppicum and carduchorum, I'm still slightly worried by the degree of spathe tube connation.
As Boyce say's, the morphological difference between these two taxa are somewhat minor.
Should be able to be definitive when the leaves arrive; aleppicum has 10 - 35 leaves of 3 - 10 mm width, whereas carduchorum has 3 - 5 leaves of 25 - 50 mm width.
Of course, all these morphological indicators are variable, and Biarum are more variable than most!!
Nice plants.
David
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I've to check as I may be have some pictures of leaves in the nature...
but you're right, not easy to make real difference....
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Biarum tenuifolium with an identity crisis.
Think their dad's surname was Davis.
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Biarum tenuifolium with an identity crisis.
Think their dad's surname was Davis.
As they say, it's a wise plant that knows its own pollinator.........
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Biarum tenuifolium abbreviatum has started flowering.
Poul
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Biarum pyrami flowering now.
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How I missed this smell... ;)
Biarum angustatum from the northern coast of Israel and Biarum pyrami from the lower Galilee region.
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I really like the pyrami. Not sure I've ever heard of that species before? Now two people post it in succession. Ain't this forum great!! ;D
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Biarum dispar is flowering now
[attachimg=1]
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Biarum dispar is flowering now
That is a nice one Fred,
Here another species is in flower today: tenuifolium subsp arundanum from Spain,
received back in 2009 form Tony W. [Thank's]
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Nice too Oron, but I'm waiting for another species pictures ... ;)
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Fine plants Poul, Tony, Fred and Oron!
Here third Biarum pyrami for this page. ;)
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as lovely as the background leaves ;) ;D
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Thanks Fred! 8) ;)
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Another species today, Biarum carduchorum, other species have nice buds at the moment.
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Two more today,
Biarum ohridense which status is not yet clear,seems to be a form of B. tenuifolium.
Biarum auraniticum, rare species from Syria. This is a rusty colored form.
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Biarum auraniticum, rare species from Syria. This is a rusty colored form.
Wow! :o Superb, Oron!
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What a great show guys ! Many thanks ! :o
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Interesting green top to the ochridense. Mine is all purple. I rather like that green contrast.
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Biarum tenuifolium from the Ronda area, Andalucia, taken a couple of weeks ago.
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Nice to see this plants Oron and Dave.
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Biarum pyrami from near Akseki Turkey flowering late and a little unusual in that it is already showing it leaves. it is usually leafless at flowering
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Biarum pyrami from near Akseki Turkey flowering late and a little unusual in that it is already showing it leaves. it is usually leafless at flowering
Nice specimen Tony.
Few populations here also bloom later with semi developed leaves.
Another Biarum auranticum in flower today, this time a yellow-green form.
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Hello Biarum collectors ,
a contact of me from Germany is looking for some Biarum :
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=9776.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=9776.0)
If anybody is interestet please PM me
Hans
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Biarum pyrami from Antalya province in Turkey, leaves showing the classic bullation of this taxon. As you can see, this plant is producing a second inflorescence from the same tuber. The dried remains of the first inflorescence are still in place although it flowered about six weeks ago, this is because it is forming seeds.