Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: Melvyn Jope on June 19, 2009, 07:39:30 PM
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I always regard the repotting task as a pleasure even though from time to time the emotion is despair on finding a void in the compost where the bulb should be. There are however moments of mild euphoria when the bulbs have increased really well, the photo shows G. Primrose Warburg where the original three have increased to seventeen. If only they were all like that!
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Hello Melvyn. Were the original bulbs recently chipped or twin-scaled? I've found that recently chipped bulbs sometimes do this, splitting very freely. Or were they just very big strong bulbs at the last repotting? Whatever; a very satisfying increase, much better than usual for Primrose Warburg. Details of your potting mix and feeding programme would be most welcome!
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Yes, Melvyn, it would be good to hear how you treat them.
The little ones are so neatly arranged around the mother bulbs, aren't they?
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Bleedin' 'eck Melvyn, that is amazing! And as Maggi said, they are so perfectly arranged. Wow. :o
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Melvyn - Quite fantastic. Can you tell us the potting mix you use? I think my mix is too lean and gritty.
johnw
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Hello all, I will attempt to answer your queries.
Hello Melvyn. Were the original bulbs recently chipped or twin-scaled? I've found that recently chipped bulbs sometimes do this, splitting very freely. Or were they just very big strong bulbs at the last repotting? Whatever; a very satisfying increase, much better than usual for Primrose Warburg. Details of your potting mix and feeding programme would be most welcome!
Not chipped or twinscaled during my ownership, I was given one bulb which increased to three good bulbs then on from there.
My potting mix is nothing magical but I have increased sharp sand and leaf mould from beech leaves with encouraging results.Other components are JI 3 and grit and a bit of peat, no exact proportions I just add until it looks and feels right. I wanted to improve the drainage of my mix and it has worked. I think the key thing (for me) in growing Galanthus well is regular feeding and I use a liquid seaweed extract. Another factor is that I always grow my bulbs when first received in plastic pots in cold frames so that I can check them out for any problems, it also makes control of watering and feeding easier.
Some will know that I have concentrated on Galanthus reginae-olgae and by way of encouragement to those that I have given seed the attached photo shows bulbs ready for repotting from seed sown on the 4th June 2006. The seeds were sown in the same open mix in a 5",(1litre) pot. About ten of these will flower this year and as can be seen some have already made offsets. Flowering from the third year doesn't seem so long when you grow a lot, As I am sure you experience Martin the main problem that occurs is space taken when they are potted separately for evaluation.
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Melvyn - Thanks so much. I guess it is time to start composting some beech or oak leaves.
johnw
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That sharp sand protects from drying out and it works well. A steady grower is a better grower and you find it back in the results at the end of the season. I do grow twinscaled bulbs to flowering size with almost the same mixture Melvyn.
I know that you can select on producing offspring. There are snowdrops that produce no or little offspring and when you do find a bulb with 2 to 4 bulbils, you must keep that one seperate because these are the best growers.
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At this time of year, Melvyn, with repotting time upon us, I try not to think about the number of pots waiting to be seen to! I have so many young seedlings still crowded into communal pots, yet to flower. When I start to think about the space demands they're going to make further down the line, my nerve starts to go!
I use pumice grit and baked-clay Molar granules to get good drainage and aeration, but I've never got around to making my own leafmould. I know it seems to be the magic compost ingredient for bulbs in pots and I really should start some as I don't seem to get the very fast bulb development that you're achieving - more like five years to flowering on average. I should probably be feeding more but also probably crowd the seedlings into the pots less. I feel they might develop faster with more space in larger pots, with some leafmould and with heavier feeding. Which liquid seaweed feed do you use, and at what strength? I tend to use half strength with seedlings but suspect they could take full strength after the first year.
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Hello Martin, the liquid manure that I use is Maxicrop. As I now have quite a lot of seed to sow I usually use two litre pots so that the seedlings have plenty of space and they stay there until large enough to pot on in individual pots. The seed that I sow is almost exclusively Galanthus reginae-olgae which probably means that my regime needs to be a bit different from yours,. After sewing they are placed in the open in shade until the first frost and then they are placed in a cold frame.After the initial watering I dont bother to water again unless its obvious that they are getting really dry, they do not get fed in the first year. For the first watering in the second year no liquid manure is used but in each subsequent watering full strength liquid manure is used.
Gerard, I agree with your comments too but all the time I have sufficient space I will give all the seedlings a chance just in case there is something good but growing a little slower!
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Thanks, Melvyn; useful to know that you use full-strength liquid feed successfuly from the second year stage onwards. I'll start doing that too. I'll also give the Maxicrop a go. I've always used Tomorite seaweed-based liquid tomato fertiliser at half strength but I've always felt that, while this might suit many bulbs, for fastest development from seed snowdrops could do with a more balanced feed with more nitrogen and phosphate and less potash than tomato fertiliser offers. High potash is of course good for disease resistance and good flowering, but seedling snowdrops tend to be pretty disease resistant (and any that aren't wouldn't be good plants to grow on for selection anyway so won't be missed if they die) and good flowering isn't an issue in the first three or four years.
I've found that the warm-habitat species reginae-olgae and ikariae put up very strong, large seed leaves compared to some other, more cold-habitat, species. It's quite possible that this helps with rapid seedling development, and I have found that reg-olgae and ikariae do seem to come on quite fast, though I haven't been keeping any kind of proper records.
Re. growing regimes, I can see that drainage is going to be a major issue for you, raising lots of reginae-olgae from seed. For my seedlings, I suspect my compost is sometimes almost too free-draining. The full-strength Maxicrop may help, though.
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Most helpful to have your tips Melvyn and Martin, just catching up after being away and now I will have to launch into repotting!
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Gordon Bennett! Just spotted this. I have just received Galanthus schaoricus and G. alpinus and want to grow them on in pots; I am also about to re-pot my reginae-olgae, so this is a very useful thread. :)
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I moved my 'Spindlestone Surprise' and from one bulb last year I found this.
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Very nice Anthony and certainly a "Surprise" for you from this lovely variety. ::)
Eric
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Congrats, Anthony. Good result.
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I moved my 'Spindlestone Surprise' and from one bulb last year I found this.
[/ quote] I too find that 'Spindlestone Surprise ' is the most prolific increaser of the yellows I grow .
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Should I leave it or split it?
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Should I leave it or split it?
Anthony, I'd separate any that come away from the mother bulb easily without having to force them too much. Any (especially smaller ones)that don't seem ready to come away easily would be better left. Too much congestion like that, I find, can lead to an increased risk of disease and rotting, so better to space the daughter bulbs out a bit of possible. After splitting, leave the mother bulb and daughter bulbs in a dry air place for a day to allow the splits to heal and callous over before replanting. Dusting with flowers of sulphur if you have some to hand is a good precaution but not essential.
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Certainly a good result, Anthony.
Paddy
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Thanks Martin. Certainly a good result, and nice to say it was a swap from Evelyn Stevens.
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I am just about ready to start repotting bulbs, most importantly Galanthus.
Roger, in his improved E. B. Anderson mix, mentions pasteurized soil. Roger, just how do you pasteurize your soil?
Along the roadside today I collected a garbage can of oak leaf mould, later I put it through the chipper-shredder. It looks very good but did clog up the shredder several times. I have some sifted compost as well. The last time I sterilzed a large batch of these two - 10 minutes in a plastic bag - I fried the microwave. Are any other methods to be recommended for the leafmould, compost and the soil?
I spotted a few black weevil grubs in the leaf mould before they went through the shredder and don't want to take any chances. By the way, sciarid fly eggs seem to be impervious to microwaving.
A definite change in the air here today. The humidity has dropped and the nights are cooler, we are to go to 10c tonight. Hopefully the Nerines will not be triggered into flower.
johnw
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How about using a steamer for small quantities?
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I found this last month
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A few words of caution from someone that has never had problems handling Galanthus bulbs in the past.
Over the weekend I repotted my remaining Galanthus bulbs and probably handled hundreds, as I was careful with watering over the past cold winter several had dry outer skins so I cleaned them off, something I have regularly done in the past.On this occasion by the evening the back of both hands reacted as though I had been stung by a wasp and were uncomfortably swollen and one finger was stiff and painful, I assume all of this from an allergic reaction and have since been taking an antihistamine and the swelling has reduced. When finishing off the job yesterday and today I did so wearing protective gloves! I have been aware of some having problems with Hyacinth and Tulip but have never before heard of a potential problem with Galanthus.
edit by maggi: I've highlighted this post because it raises an important note of caution!
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I think your report of this reaction is interesting, Melvyn. I have heard of a reaction to hyacinth bulbs but not, I think , to Galanthus, so I have edited your post to make it stand out on the page :o.... your warning may prove a boon ...... thank you! 8)
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Mark,
Was that picture taken of a bulb that was repotted last year? Is the main bulb still alright? That seems like an almost unbelievable amount of offsets for a single bulb that has remained healthy..... more like a twin-scaling operation. ;D ;D Congratulations. Was it a good variety too?
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Melvyn - I have just repotted 100 pots of Galanthus and am about halfway through. I have had no such reaction, maybe I am immune. The worst reaction I have is while sitting with a snowdrop catalogue.
I do react to handling hellebore seeds and get tingling in my finger tips for several days afterwards.
johnw
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Too funny about the galanthus catalogues , John!! 8) ;D
The irritation problem with hellebore seed is quite well known...... I suppose it pays to be careful with "stuff" in general..... after all, Melvyn's reaction has come out of the blue after many years as a carefree snowdrop handler ???
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I like your comment about galanthus catalogues John although I think cardiac arrest when looking at prices is far worse than my experience.......
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It's the prices in the snowdrop catalogues which affect the heart. Better to get swapping with forum members. The bulbs come free; will always be of good quality and health and the contacts made are so enjoyable.
Paddy
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It's alright looking at the catalogues, it's the paying that causes the pain :o
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I have just been de-potting Galanthus that were re-potted last year and have to do re-do the entire lot. I am now almost finished. It is obvious there was too much rock dust in the mix last year - probably in the topsoil I bought. Most pots dried out nicely but as luck would have it a few pots stayed moist deep down and things like ikariae - although I haven't positively identified it (long narrow necks) - have suffered and quite a few rotted.
Next year as soon as the leaves look they are just starting to go dormant I am going to do something different. Martin touched on this recently and it was something I had entirely forgotten about. A friend long ago had a cactus collection which he left outside all summer until late October, if they hadn't dried out by mid October he sowed a fast growing grass mix around the pot edges - the grasses dried the soil out and he moved the cacti inside and let the grasses die of drought, then he cut the grasses off. So I will do the same to ensure thorough drying of the snowdrop pots, maybe using fall or annual rye.
I am also lightening up the mix with perlite in the bulb zone (upper third of the pot) and placing large stones around single bulbs. Last year's bulbs with stones around them looked happy as clams and they almost seemed to hug the stones.
It seems obvious that whilst Galanthus don't appreciate long term dry storage in open air they store perfectly well if stored in dry sand long term without dessication.
I'm using 3" square tall pots (5.5" deep) this year which require flatting as they are a tad top heavy.
I would be interested to hear of others potting mixes for bulbs - especially Ian Y.'s - as I never seem to get it quite right for this climate.
johnw
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John,
You are one of many forumists who grow their snowdrops in pots. This is something I have done only once - with G. fosteri and I have since planted this out in the garden though the results would indicate I should return it to pot culture. Even with single bulbs, I plant them out immediately in the garden - no repotting year after year, just leave them to grow away for a few years before disturbing them again to spread them about a little.
This annual repotting seems to be such a chore and I see no reason for it when most snowdrops will grow very well in the open garden.
By the way, John, I lifted two large wheelbarrow loads of Harlequin Pink Fir Apple today - now, I bet that makes you jealous! I could hollow out a book, OK a big book, and send on a few.
Paddy
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With all the snowdrops I have I'd need a garden the size of a lesser moon. Evelyn Stevens has a lovely plot on Sheriffmuir where she can separate clumps of snowdrops by several feet. I end up having to turf something out before I can plant something new. :(
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Maybe after next year i have to make a new companyposter you can have them all on a square meter Anthony ;D
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;D
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John,
You are one of many forumists who grow their snowdrops in pots. This is something I have done only once - with G. fosteri and I have since planted this out in the garden though the results would indicate I should return it to pot culture. Even with single bulbs, I plant them out immediately in the garden - no repotting year after year, just leave them to grow away for a few years before disturbing them again to spread them about a little.
This annual repotting seems to be such a chore and I see no reason for it when most snowdrops will grow very well in the open garden.
By the way, John, I lifted two large wheelbarrow loads of Harlequin Pink Fir Apple today - now, I bet that makes you jealous! I could hollow out a book, OK a big book, and send on a few.
Paddy
Paddy - When you have a small city garden and don't want to mix up named snowdrops potting is the only way to go. I certainly would not want them to get mixed up, as you know they all look the same and seedlings are a problem too. The garden is clogged with ericaceous material and until the shrubs get moved south there is simply no room. When time permits the drops will head south too.
By the way I grew fosteri from AGCBC#96-1106 1/26/97 seed and it didn't like life in pots or the ground.
Plenty of pink fir apples in Nova Scotia thanks to a benevolent plantswoman you may have heard of. The way they increase is quite remarkable. Knobby but the tastiest of them all.
Now to find that recipe, trusting Paddy's Plum is better than Patty's Plum.
johnw
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as you know they all look the same
John you will get drummed out of the Brownies (I think that's the right expression) ;D ;D ;D
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Perhaps it is grown in La Jardine en Provence?
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Having a moment of doubt...
Last year to keep moss, algae etc. at bay, I top dressed pots with sharp sand.
On dry sunny days I found this baked hard and become a bit impervious to water.
Earlier this year I started using course grit. But I find this really quite chunky being over 6+ mm.
With galanthus seed, I wondered how the poor darlings would ever emerge from under this weight.
Then I thought I was being clever by opting for chicken grit which is basically crushed oyster shells and much finer.
Now I'm worrying whether this might adversely affect the pH levels in the pots.
What to do?
Malcolm.
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Last year I searched high and low to find deep square plastic pots. I eventually sourced them from http://www.kakteen-schwarz.de/
I'm planning to place another order for a batch of 9x9x13cm pots... no small feat in itself given my lack of language skills.
Had I wanted to order a bed-pan I might have had an easier time as my wife once spent 2 months in an Austrian hospital.
If anyone would like me to order some on their behalf drop me a PM.
Regards, Malcolm.
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Hi Malcolm,
Did you try www.lbsgardenwarehouse.co.uk (http://www.lbsgardenwarehouse.co.uk) ? I get my deep rose pots from them. Admittedly I take the round ones. Why I dont know ! Just checked and they do have the square ones too. The Neva rose pots seem closest to your needs.
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This is an incredibly helpful thread.
I am looking for pots too: 3" wide and 5" tall. Does anyone in the US know where I can get this size?
Carolyn
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Hi Carolyn,
This is probably not much help but sometimes here in the UK I've seen small clematis plants in pots similar to the size you are looking for. Maybe a US clematis grower may know where to get the pots you want.
Mike
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This is an incredibly helpful thread. I am looking for pots too: 3" wide and 5" tall. Does anyone in the US know where I can get this size?
Carolyn
Carolyn
Would 3.5"d x 5"h by ITML fit the bill? The code is SQV0030D. They're a bit tippy so we buy the corresonding flats too.
Go to the ITML website and browse on deep pots in the green search bar. ITML was formerly Kord.
johnw - -8c here this morning.
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Hi Carolyn,
This is probably not much help but sometimes here in the UK I've seen small clematis plants in pots similar to the size you are looking for. Maybe a US clematis grower may know where to get the pots you want.
Mike
Hi Carolyn,
Try Anderson Die & Manufacturing - http://www.andersonpots.com/products.html - their bands are excellent and deep tree band product 2008 (2⅞" X 2⅞" X 5½" deep) may meet your needs. I know a lot of folks who use them and are very happy.
Best,
John
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Hi Carolyn,
This is probably not much help but sometimes here in the UK I've seen small clematis plants in pots similar to the size you are looking for. Maybe a US clematis grower may know where to get the pots you want.
Mike
Hi Carolyn,
Try Anderson Die & Manufacturing - http://www.andersonpots.com/products.html - their bands are excellent and deep tree band product 2008 (2⅞" X 2⅞" X 5½" deep) may meet your needs. I know a lot of folks who use them and are very happy.
Best,
John
Thanks so much John, i will look into this as the dimensions are right. Carolyn
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After much searching and experimenting I find the Anderson pots the best for bulbs. I have a 400 plus potted collection (less then half galanthus lest anyone gets too excited!) of bulbs, some perennials, and a few shrubs.
I do have to cut out a square of window-screen to place over the enormous drain holes in the bottom to keep soil from tumbling out and slugs taking up residence.
The pots come in many sizes. A few I find ideal are the "3Ds" (3" deeps), which John mentioned, good for 1-2 galanthus bulbs; 2Ds for small twin scales, offsets, and seedlings, 4Ds for 3-7 bulbs, and the the super long 5Ds as I call them are for Iris reticulatas and single corms of colchicums. The company also sells flats appropriate for different sizes. Of course different depths and widths for different genera and sized bulbs.
Though time and time again I've been told or read that galanthus don't do well in pots, I've been growing them this way for 10 years, at least with great success. However I can not let them freeze. It's a 45 minute marathon running flats into the garage when freeze is called for. Like having milk cows - no rest or vacation during winter! But very pastoral and bucolic when all's sunny and blooming, like now.
Hope this isn't too commercial but such pots are hard to find in N.America and are very good.
Jim
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Though time and time again I've been told or read that galanthus don't do well in pots, I've been growing them this way for 10 years, at least with great success. However I can not let them freeze. It's a 45 minute marathon running flats into the garage when freeze is called for. Like having milk cows - no rest or vacation during winter! But very pastoral and bucolic when all's sunny and blooming, like now. Jim
Great to have you join the Forum at long last and we look forward to your many & varied plant experiences.
I too grow many snowdrops in pots but I can't say they are terribly lusty or as rapidly offsetting as ones in the ground.
Seems we live in radically different parts of the country when it comes to winter cold. However it is no surprise that you too cannot allow Galanthus in pots to freeze without losing them. Here it seems even a brush with air frost of -2 c and slightly lower)coming down from the top and through the sides simultaneously will kill a Galanthus dead in time. Yes they do recover when thawed but some sort of resultant permanent root or outer scale damage eventually does them in. As I have mentioned in the past if the pot is sunken in woodchips, bark, sand or soil in a coldframe the bulbs and roots can withstand anything our winters can offer up (the obviously tender ones - peshemenii etc -excluded), even 4 months of below freezing and lows in the upper -20'sc. Mercifully we haven't had such a winter for twenty years. Now the question is why will a slight freeze kill that potted bulb and not extreme low temperatures when sunken. Of note our native Canadian Hemlock is only root hardy to -7c and many a nursery has lost their CHs that were inadequately protected. There may be the clue here.... but it escapes me.
johnw - +1c
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Hope this isn't too commercial but such pots are hard to find in N.America and are very good.
Jim
Good to have you around again, Jim!
No worries about being commercial... this is useful info, given in response to a member's question.
Thank you! 8)
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I do have to cut out a square of window-screen to place over the enormous drain holes in the bottom to keep soil from tumbling out and slugs taking up residence.Jim
Jim - We tried the Anderson pots but as you say they require screening in the bottom. Still they were a haven for sowbugs and we gave them up.
johnw - +2c and grey
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Now the question is why will a slight freeze kill that potted bulb and not extreme low temperatures when sunken. Of note our native Canadian Hemlock is only root hardy to -7c and many a nursery has lost their CHs that were inadequately protected. There may be the clue here.... but it escapes me.
johnw - +1c
Thanks for the welcomes. If I don't respond right away I only get to wifi twice a week otherwise it's dial up so I can't access the forum.
John - the answer to why a plant in a pot exposed to freezing air all around is less hardy then one sunk, is in your email: the freeze penetrates from all sides killing active root tips at the bottom and sides. There's no where for them to go for protection except the center, which may freeze, too.
A sunk pot only gets cold from the top down. Heat is moving up from the soil even if just a temp or two above freezing. I could keep many plants in sunk pots alive in Alaska, where I grew up, at -20F for weeks but with the marvelous insulation of snow cover. (Cold moves up, too. When the ground froze to 20' at a friend's one winter, it often took weeks for it to "rise" out of the ground before plants could get to growing.)
Mild Seattle/Bellevue temps wreak havoc on pots on tables or on the ground, as I have to grow them. I wish I could have a cold frame but living in an apt. with a 7' x 10' concrete patio precludes that. Not to complain. Even with a week of freeze there's no winter here compared to home!