Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => NARCISSUS => Topic started by: mark smyth on June 10, 2009, 03:13:24 PM
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everyone has been very quiet about the nasty Narcissus fly. This has been the summer they love. Hot all day and flying from morning to early evening. Have you seen them in your garden or any garden you have visited? I saw them in Scotland and in a N Irish walled garden I viisted on Monday. I've lost count of how many I've killed over the last few weeks but I'm annoyed that most were males. Thanksfully the heat and lack of rain for the last three weeks means there are no leaves for them to lay their eggs on.
Here are photos taken this week to show the black one, fawn and three coloured forms.
Do Not kill the small bumblebees that this fly mimics
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To help those unfamiliar with the narcissus fly, I'll repeat what I've said in previous years around this time: You can tell small bumblebees from narcissus fly quite easily by the sound they make when flying. Bees buzz but the flies make a high-pitched whining or keening noise that's very distinctive. Also, bees are interested in flowers but the flies go for foiliage, repeatedly landing on bulb leaves. They seem to be drawn especially to colchicum leaves (especially if the narcissus and snowdrop leaves have already died down) and are particularly easy to swat without damage to small plants when they land there.
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They like taking nectar or pollen from Geraniums
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They like taking nectar or pollen from Geraniums
They do visit flowers, as Mark says. What I meant was that the flies don't go purely from flower to flower like bees. They'll occasionally visit flowers but spend most of their time flying around looking for bulb leaves, landing on them and sitting on them. The males also fly around a lot looking for females to mate with, and will often pester bees by mistake. So if your see what looks like a small bumble bee bumping into another one then flying off in a hurry, it's probably a short-sighted narcissus fly that's realised its mistake.
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Some new photos been posted to the Pacific Bulb Society's wiki pages:
http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusBulbFly
also see this page on PBS : http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/pbs/2003-January/012347.html
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I am asking out of ignorance but is not the flying pattern dissimilar?
I believe narcissus fly is a kind of hover fly?
I mean it stops in mid air and the darts forward.
Göte
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I havent seen them hovering and their grub looks different
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I spotted one mimicking a buff-tailed bumblebee - i.e. it had a red bum, but tried to catch it for Etta the chameleon before I thought about taking its pic. I haven't seen it since. :-\
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I had two Narcissus flies in the garden yesterday. They are either late like someone saw in a buln recently or they have ben hiding away because of the rain. Yesterday was the hottest day for a couple of weeks
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There was a great discussion on the merits of selling dormant Galanthus bulbs versus "in the green" bulbs at the Chedworth Cottage Garden Society Meeting last February. John Grimshaw was pro dormant bulbs stating lifting growing bulbs made no sense, I tend to agree and have usually received bulbs from Europe that way with success. Joe Sharman was adamant that "in the green" was the way to go as at least you knew the plant was correctly labelled - if in flower - and that the bulb was not housing a narcissus bulb fly grub. Both reasonable arguments I thought but I avoid "in the green" if possible as this method won't work for transatlantic but reasonably well from our west coast though the plants seem traumatized.
My question is - can one tell upon close inspection if a bulb is housing a grub? Usually you find out the next year with a no show. Also has anyone used Provado with success to kill NBF eggs and larvae? The timing would be of interest as a dormant bulb with no roots cannot absorb imidichloprid and a later application would be too late; but maybe like some other systemics Provado can also kill on contact. Having had a few bulbs with grubs I want to prevent any possibly hatchings from imported bulbs; I have never seen an adult NBF here. Any suggestions?
johnw - skies black, rain impending.
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can one tell upon close inspection if a bulb is housing a grub? Usually you find out the next year with a no show. Also has anyone used Provado with success to kill NBF eggs and larvae? The timing would be of interest as a dormant bulb with no roots cannot absorb imidichloprid and a later application would be too late; but maybe like some other systems Provado can also kill on contact. Having had a few bulbs with grubs I want to prevent any possibly hatchings from imported bulbs; I have never seen an adult NBF here. Any suggestions?
Examine the basal plate for signs of the small wound the grub makes when it enters the bulb. The eggs are laid at, or near, the soil surface, hatch, and the grub makes its way down the outside of the bulb to the basal plate, then bites its way into the interior of the bulb from there.
However, there's no guarantee that all such wounds will be obvious. As a precautionary measure, I suggest soaking the bulbs in insecticidal solution containing a wetting agent. Remember that these are flies and do not require the use of exotic insecticides to be killed. A synthetic pyrethroid would be more than adequate. Save your imidichloprid for vine weevils and other insects for which there is no other effective control.
You should also gently pinch suspicious bulbs: infested bulbs will tend to feel a little soft because the grub is hollowing them out. I say "tend" because during the bulb selling season, the grubs are not fully developed, and any softness may be undetectable.
Finally, you can always slice a bulb in half to be sure! If it's infested, remove the grub and wash away the feculent mess it leaves. Whether infested or not, dust the cut surfaces with sulfur, allow to dry for a day or two to callus, and plant. This may sound like drastic surgery, but amaryllids can be propagated by twin scaling, so cutting a bulb in half is no big deal.
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Thanks Roger.
re: weevils We are getting good control of them with parasitic nematodes and have seen their populations plummet of late. We will do another application in a couple of weeks.
The imidichloprid is great to prevent aphids on bulb leaves and especially lilies - seems to lessen feeding by lily beetle as well if applied just as the shoots emerge.
johnw
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I've found dead bees about in my alpine house when I used provado as a systemic to kill aphids on erythroniums. Don't use on flowering plants if possible.
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Narcissus Fly: see also these pages :
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4405.0
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4297.0 lesser narcissus fly
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1850.0
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=204.0
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Caught today my 1st. Large Narcissus Fly (Merodon equestris) of the young 2010 season on the window sill.
Probably hatched from my Hippeastrum pot (no other bulbs in the room).
One large bulb does not show any growth. The bulb neck is suspiciously soft >:(
It is the first time my Hippeastrums got infested.
How many will still hatch from such a large bulb? :'(
The narcissus fly made the typical distinctive, quite noisy, sound. I could feel the fibrations when softly touched the back of the fly with my finger.
Unfortunately the fly was short lived. Our cat observed me during making close shots of my object.
She immediately caught it when the fly unintensionally dropped down from the desk.
My cat seemed to be quite happy while crunching the little energy snack ::) ;D
I'm thinking of now to practise her for an assignment in the garden... ;D
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that's one OK. Did you let him/her go free ;D
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Mark,
the fly or my cat?
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The fly. I guess the bulb was in the house?
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Mark, yes the bulb still is in the house.
My cat has eaten the fly! ;D
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News from my garden...
My fishnet and todays haul... I can't stop the investation but hopefully limit the damage.
The sound of the Narcissus flies is unique - once you have heared and memoried you can easily distinguish it from bumble bees and other buzz ;D
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Hi 5. well done
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News from my garden...
My fishnet and todays haul... I can't stop the investation but hopefully limit the damage.
The sound of the Narcissus flies is unique - once you have heared and memoried you can easily distinguish it from bumble bees and other buzz ;D
Armin can't imagine you on the rampage with that tiny fishnet and actually achieving such a good catch! I wonder how many objects went flying at the same time : ??? Until I joined the SRGC I had never come across this usurper fly and now I hear it in my dreams! Have you completely lost you Hippeastrum? I do hope some bulbs can be rescued on such a magnificent specimen
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Robin,
not a single one escaped from those I had identified. Probably all caught flies were females. Those who escaped and flew off in the first attempt to catch them returned after a couple of minutes obviously to lay eggs on the narcissus leaves.
Just a bit of patience, slow in body movements while approaching and finishing with a sudden quick stroke with the fishnet is required. No need for rampage or being hectic. ;D
The infested hippeastrum bulb didn't grow neither a flower stem nor leaves this season. Two daughter bulbs growing leaves.
The bulb consistency still looks normal. No soft locations or spots can be sensed with fingers. Will see if it recovers until next year.
Mark,
here is another caught beast in a zoomed view ;D
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To know if they are male or female squeeze the body. If the fly is female her laying tube will come out and eggs will appear. If only females were one colour we would not waste time killing males
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Hi
Last year I to collected a few of those pesky bulb flies. They were brought in from some bulbs that I got from a sister in laws farm where the varieties are quite old, unfortunately not many survived my bin after I realised they were hosting a grub. I also bought a few bulbs this year from a supplier which will remain anonymous that had over 50% of the poeticus with one or two grubs.
I suppose if they were rare or valued bulbs that are effected you could always chit them and most likely save a few of them or atleast get a few smaller ones from them.
My 4 year old son caught a few of the bulb flies last summer, he wanted to pin them all and put in his Insect collection until I told him they were "bad" flies, he promptly then squashed them all and looked very proud of himself.
As I am going through a seperation currently I will miss his services on the days that he is not around :'(
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So far I've only succeeded in killing one fly. I have one of those things that looks like a tennis racquet but electrocutes the flies etc. It hurts me anyway :o. I had a narcissus fly on it being zapped for a good 20 seconds after which it flew off! I can't get near enough for swatting. I think I need to take tracking lessons from Ray Mears. He'd probably eat them afterwards as well. ;D
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I get close enough to swat them but once you get close you have to strike. They have finished here now.
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Warning: The Narcissus fly is out now!
We have had a week with sun and temp. above 25 C, the ideal weather for the Narcissus fly - and yes they are out now. Some days ago I found one in my green house on the leaves of Cyrtanthus elatus. Hopefully it has not visited my Galanthus RGO or my Sternbergias, which is leafless now.
This year I have covered an outdoor frame with a fine netting to avoid the Narcissus fly. Here I grow my rarer Narcissus, which I only have a few of. But to my horror I found one Narcissus fly trapped under the net yesterday >:(.
The frame are not 100% closed, but the openings are very small and I don't think the fly could have entered here. The other explanation is that there have been a grub in one of the Narcissus bulbs, and just have turned to a fly.
Poul
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I am wondering, when the Galanthusses are leafless, can the narcisfly still find the bulb?
Stupid question probably! ???
Lina.
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They alledgedly lay their egg/s at the hole left by the withered leaves
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Thank you Mark.
I already toke away the dead leaves and closed the holes they left last week. :D
Lina.
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The little buggers were all over my pots of snowdrop seedlings and chipped bulbs. I'm removing the withered/withering leaves and shaking off the top dressing before taking the pots under cover.
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I am feeling proud. I caught and disposed of 8 of the little ******s! At last I seem to have got the knack - many thanks to Armin. :-*
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What you all need is a tame Ficedula narcissina, ;D ;D :P
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I have a breeding pair on my Christmas list... ::)
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I have a breeding pair on my Christmas list... ::)
I wasn't aware of this very beautiful bird.... Ficedula narcissina but a quick look at the photos available og google show that anyone might be grateful for such decorative feathered company in the garden - even those of us not waging war against narcissus fly!
Might make most of the "locals" feel a might underdressed, though!
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Ficedula+narcissina&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=qtV&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=AiTKT_3jCYj98QPr7azRDw&ved=0CGUQsAQ&biw=1143&bih=702 (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Ficedula+narcissina&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=qtV&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=AiTKT_3jCYj98QPr7azRDw&ved=0CGUQsAQ&biw=1143&bih=702)
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Not sure how it got its name though, there are no narcissus native to east Asia, as far as I know. ???
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Not sure how it got its name though, there are no narcissus native to east Asia, as far as I know. ???
Who cares, if it eats flies!
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I'm no longer using a sway to get them. A quick spray of fly spray seems to work
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Not sure how it got its name though, there are no narcissus native to east Asia, as far as I know. ???
The yellow breast?
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Yes, Gerry, the Narcissus part of the bird's name apparently refers to the bright yellow colouring of the chest plummage, not to what the bird eats (narcissus flies would be a very restricted diet for a bird). So it's a narcissus-coloured fly catcher rather than a catcher of narcissus flies.
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Curious, considering all the other yellow things it could have been named after.
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Curious, considering all the other yellow things it could have been named after.
The Custard Flycatcher doesn't have quite the same ring to it. Lemon Flycatcher? Actually, am I being a bit slow today or are there not really all that many natural yellow things around 'cos I'm running out of ideas already. Golden Flycatcher, I suppose. I guess whoever named it wasn't aware of the existence of the Narcissus Fly, so didn't anticipate that the name could be misleading to daff and snowdrop growers.
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I think it is quite logical for a Dutchman (Coenraad Jacob Temminck in 1836) to name it after possibly the most obvious yellow things in his native land. ;D