Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: johnw on May 31, 2009, 12:46:57 PM
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I grew these from seed labelled Lilium kesselringianum cw Russia, Western Caucasus, 2000m {Ho} from Karmic 96 2/1/97 . Am wondering about them and who Karmic was - total memory failure but seems to me it was a nursery or seed seller. ???
A couple of other bulbs have opened today, Colour is a bit stronger.
johnw
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Beautiful, John. I love the colour and markings, particularly combined with the lovely dark anthers. 8)
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Those purple tips to the petals are lovely.
John, pic size of 780 pixels wide is easier to see for most of us!! ::)
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Lovely species! If the label is faded, or you received the seeds from someone with (very) sloppy handwriting, I guess it could be Holubec? H and K look quite similar, and so do several of the other letters...
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Karmic Exotix Nursery was a distribution company for seed from Eastern European collectors and growers, run by Andrew Osyany of the Ontario Rock Garden Society. Andrew discontinued the business a few years ago. The abbreviation Ho stood for Vojtech Holubec.
Sharon
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Thanks Sharon & Arisaema. I had completely forgotten about Andrew's operation. Holubec seed was very dependable as I recall.
Maggi - pix reduced. edit: Many thanks, John! :-* M
A couple more shots were added as well.
johnw
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And a Lilium pyrenaicum from Barry Starling seed, 1993. Lovely foliage on this one. And no, that is not a lily beetle.
johnw
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A ladybird then? :) I do hope my seedlings of L. kesselringii turn out like those above. So very elegant and refined. What is the yellow John? And do you find that L. pyrenaicum has a lovely scent when you get a whiff as you walk past but close up, it is really cloyingly foul?
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Thanks Sharon & Arisaema. I had completely forgotten about Andrew's operation. Holubec seed was very dependable as I recall.
Maggi - pix reduced. edit: Many thanks, John! :-* M
A couple more shots were added as well.
johnw
You use past tense.
Holubec is still around is he not? I got seed from him a couple of years ago and also his book about Caucasus.
Göte
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Holubec is still around is he not?
He certainly is, I got L. souliei seeds and a bunch of other goodies from him this winter ;D His email is holubec at vurv dot cz.
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If you get some extra seeds from the top one, I am begging at the door :D
Holubec was very generous and included extra packages for free.
Göte
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Lilium szovitzianum from AGCBC seed.
johnw
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A beautiful thing John.
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Glorious, John. 8)
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A ladybird then? :) I do hope my seedlings of L. kesselringii turn out like those above. So very elegant and refined. What is the yellow John? And do you find that L. pyrenaicum has a lovely scent when you get a whiff as you walk past but close up, it is really cloyingly foul?
Lesley
It is not an insect but actually one of the many thousand different parts of an Ulmus that rain down throughout the year. The yellows in the L. kesselringii posting are other kesselringiis that have opened fully and reflexed.
re: Holubec - Using the past tense I meant that when I ordered Holubec seed through Andrew. If I had only known he had Lilium souliei... :(
johnw
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A ladybird then? :) I do hope my seedlings of L. kesselringii turn out like those above. So very elegant and refined. What is the yellow John? And do you find that L. pyrenaicum has a lovely scent when you get a whiff as you walk past but close up, it is really cloyingly foul?
Lesley - The L. kesselringii smells of face soap - not unpleasant. The pyrenaicum is on first whiff not so nice but second sniff smells of one of those perfumes in tiny bottles at Woolworths way back when - remember them Lily of the Valley etc., I don't know if they were samplers or for sale - and not unpleasant. Seems flowers of pyr. at different stages of development have different smells, the more mature the better they smell
johnw
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If you get some extra seeds from the top one, I am begging at the door :D
Holubec was very generous and included extra packages for free.
Göte
Göte - Top pod is marked to send you seed.
johnw
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Holubec is still around is he not?
He certainly is, I got L. souliei seeds and a bunch of other goodies from him this winter ;D His email is holubec at vurv dot cz.
Arisaema - Thanks for the email address, but..... Have just had my email to him come back saying invalid address - holubec@vurv.cz - any thoughts?
johnw
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Have just had my email to him come back saying invalid address - holubec@vurv.cz - any thoughts?
That's odd, it's the address listed on this years receipt. Snail-mail address below:
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If you get some extra seeds from the top one, I am begging at the door :D
Holubec was very generous and included extra packages for free.
Göte
Göte - Top pod is marked to send you seed.
johnw
Thank you John
The caucasians are among my favourites (but take time from seed)
Göte
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Holubec is still around is he not?
He certainly is, I got L. souliei seeds and a bunch of other goodies from him this winter ;D His email is holubec at vurv dot cz.
Arisaema - Thanks for the email address, but..... Have just had my email to him come back saying invalid address - holubec@vurv.cz - any thoughts?
johnw
A thought.
Gerd Moen was publishing his seed list some times ago - It is still there. Perhaps he knows??
Göte
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Thanks for the suggestion, Göte. I've just sent off an email to Geir Moen, tried yesterday and got the same error as John.
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Some Lilium (Lilium pumilum-1,5m tall, Lilium from Croatia / hybrid with m. cattaniae? lophophorum 30cm tall, taliense, lijiangense, ?)
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Hans,
Beautiful Liliums. 2, 3, 4 and 5 are just stunning. 8)
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Here's another seed-grown L. szowitsianum.
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Beautiful, Arisaema. And perfect pictures too!! 8)
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Have just had my email to him come back saying invalid address - holubec@vurv.cz - any thoughts?
That's odd, it's the address listed on this years receipt. Snail-mail address below:
I re-sent the same email using the above address and vholubec@vurv.cz and neither bounced back. So I don't know what the problem was the first time. No response back; I had asked about the availibility of L. soulei seed, one I have been chasing for some time.
johnw
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Grüß Gott Hans,
Your lilies look very good. If the Croatian one is from the wild it is an enigma because it looks like a hansonii hybrid from the shape of the bud and the flower.
It seems that you have them in a greenhouse. (or is that just in the background) Lijiangense and lopophorum are perfectly frost hardy in the ground here.
Re your unknown: Is it a martagon type or a caucasian type? The flowers are beautiful but I cannot se the general habitus.
Cheers
Göte
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I have a little late seed of Lilium hansonii if anyone would like it Perhaps enough for 2 or 3 people to have a dozen seeds each. I'm pretty sure it is the true species, not a hybrid. Let me know privately.
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Lilium oxypetalum var. insigne - a tad paler than usual this year, maybe if the sun would come out again...
johnw
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Göte,
the pics are taken in the greenhouse of my friend, because my plants are outdoors and we have so much rain.
All plants are grown from seed of wild collected plants (Kroatia and China).
Sorry for the late reply!
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Gruess Gott Hans ,
your lily hybrid No. 2 looks very much like my L. xdalhansoni , which I have grown for a long time =L.martagon v. cattaniae x hansonii
Otto.
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Just 2 Lily's in flower here at the moment.
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Anne Karin,
Both are simply stunning! 8)
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They are indeed, as are also, the oxypetalums. Yours look quite informal in a clump John, nicer than my couple of rather stiff and single-flowered jobs.
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Below a favourite of mine, Lilium lophophorum. This must be an early clone, the others are still a week or two from flowering.
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Below a favourite of mine, Lilium lophophorum. This must be an early clone, the others are still a week or two from flowering.
And how's your "pink form" coming along, is it going to flower?
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And how's your "pink form" coming along, is it going to flower?
Yup, it should be possibe to tell the colour in a few days time. Fingers crossed! ;)
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Some real stunners above- oh to be successful with L.lophophorum!
Flowering here- the first of what we have always grown as Lilium shastense.
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They are indeed, as are also, the oxypetalums. Yours look quite informal in a clump John, nicer than my couple of rather stiff and single-flowered jobs.
Lesley
Usually they are stiffly upright. The informality is due to persist cloudy weather. And now the weatherman says rain until Saturday - 40mm last night and 35 more tonight and much the same forward.
johnw
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And how's your "pink form" coming along, is it going to flower?
Yup, it should be possibe to tell the colour in a few days time. Fingers crossed! ;)
My that is a stout looking plant.
johnw
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I like the lophophorum "lanterns" before they burst open. :)
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I like the lophophorum "lanterns" before they burst open. :)
That is highly variable. Some never form lanterns, some stay a lantern all the time. My very limited experience is that the lantern ones are shorter.
Göte
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I like the lophophorum "lanterns" before they burst open. :)
That is highly variable. Some never form lanterns, some stay a lantern all the time. My very limited experience is that the lantern ones are shorter.
Göte
Lesley / Göte
Interesting, I have never seen ones that burst open. Can you show us pictures sometime?
johnw
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I only have L. l. var linarioudes which I think is less attractive and more spindly than the type. It doesn't really make a lantern at all.
[attachthumb=1]
[attachthumb=2]
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I like the lophophorum "lanterns" before they burst open. :)
That is highly variable. Some never form lanterns, some stay a lantern all the time. My very limited experience is that the lantern ones are shorter.
Göte
Lesley / Göte
Interesting, I have never seen ones that burst open. Can you show us pictures sometime?
johnw
This picture shows one a day or so after bursting. I did not anticipate your question so I have no picture before. ;)
Göte
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I'm fascinated by the pics of Lilium lophophorum that I've seen. So many of them sort of look like the poor thing never opens properly, yet the lantern effect is beautiful by itself as well. Such an interesting species by the look of it. 8)
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Göte - Thanks. Glad to see they don't reflex too much. A lovely species.
johnw
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A couple of pictures from previous years:
The books say that there is only one flower. I once had one with half a dozen buds but it succumbed to some kind of fungus. Three flowers is still more than one. The big one is nearly 40cm high It never had any lanterns.
The small one never burst open at all and is not more than 20cm.
Göte
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Lovely, Göte. Just lovely! The first one with the 3 flowers almost looks to me to have a touch of fasciation, given that you can sort of see 3 melded stems below them. Very nice looking plant and flower, regardless of the reason for your having more than one flower per stem. 8)
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Some nameless Lilium! I show the flowers and the leaves because this could help (or not)
unknown
not pumilum
orange pumilum with leaves of martagon
unknown
taliensis (not white) with wrong leaves
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After some years in cultivation in my garden here now the first flower :
Lilium pardalinum
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...and the "pink" lophophorum is yellow, looks like my other "Chinese lanterns" :P On the bright side it's potted and can be protected from rain, so I may finally get seeds that haven't already germinated inside the pods.
Lesley; are all yours blushed with red, or is the flower in the pic fading?
Johannes;
Beautiful plants, the first in particular! From the top I see:
Lilium bakerianum v. rubrum x 2
Lilium leichtlinii var. maximowiczii or L. amabile (if the leaves are fussy) x 2
Lilium medeoloides
Asiatic hybrid x 2
Lilium lankongense x 2
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After some years in cultivation in my garden here now the first flower :
Lilium pardalinum
Thanks for posting Hans, that gives me hope that one day I too will get flowers!
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Hi Brian ,
mhhhh -so it seems it is a bit difficould with flowering ?
I have it tried on several places in my garden -without succsess ....
Now I have it on a border with woodplants -more or less shady ....I think this plants needs acid soil -and here is all calcy :'( ...so I have never big succsess exept with L. candium + L. henry ...all other are lost after one or two years
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hi everybody,
I'm not a specialist in growing lilium but try to cultivate some ( not too stout ) on my balcony. Here's one which flowered quite good this spring : lilium cernuum ssp album ( labelled as ).
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Hans it is not that it is difficult with flowering, it is that it has - until this year been quite a weak plant. This year it looks much better, so I hope :)
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Hans,
Are you sure that is L. pardalinum? I think it might be L. humboldtii. I can't be sure but most of the L. pardalium I have seen are orange in the centre and a deeper red on the tips of the petals. L. humboldtii might be a bit more difficult to flower than pardalinum which is reliable here.
Susan
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Susan ,
I have my plants of L.pardalinum from a 'importent' person from England - I'm shure her plants are all correct named ....
In 'Bulbs' from Phillip & Rix is written that they flowers from yellow to red with marron spots ....
Sorry -but I'm really not a Lilium specialist !
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Johannes;
Beautiful plants, the first in particular! From the top I see:
Lilium bakerianum v. rubrum x 2
Lilium leichtlinii var. maximowiczii or L. amabile (if the leaves are fussy) x 2
Lilium medeoloides
Asiatic hybrid x 2
Lilium lankongense x 2
The first one looks as amoenum to me but I may misjudge the size. How big is it??
Second, I should think amabile is the better bet. Maximowiczii is more orange. Note the black streak in the center of the tepals.
Medeloides undoubtedly.
I agree lankongense is the best bet but these are somewhat variable.
Göte
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Göte,
the first Lilium is so 40-50 cm tall.
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Some real beauties on that last page. I like the "white" cernuum and the lovely pink at the top of Hans/ posting.
Arisaema, my lophophorum all flower a rather greenish yelow but take on a pinkish tinge as the flowers age.
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Göte,
the first Lilium is so 40-50 cm tall.
Ok then it is most probably bakerianum.
You are right most of these want acid soil. Lilies of the world give the following list of lilies that like limestone soil:
Amabile,Candidum, carniolicum, calchedonicum,concolor, henryii, martagon, monadelphum, pomponicum, testaceum.
The following may tolerate limestone soil
Brownii, bulbiferum, croceum, callosum, cernuum, davidii, hansonii, centifolium, longiflorum, marhan, pardalinum, parryi, pyrenaicum, regale, Szovitzianum.
The list reflects the state of knowledge ca. 1950. Some of the lilies we now grow like bakerianum and amoenum were unknown in garden situations at this time.
Your pardalinum is certainly not typical I enclose a picture of my clone which better follows descriptions and pictures in litterature.
I find it much less easy than its relative superbum which seds itself all over and flowers profusely at nearly 2 m height.
Göte
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Göte,
That superbum is amazing!!! 2 m in height? I can grow pardalinum (hybrids?) here fairly easily it appears (in pots at least) so it sounds like I should definitely try superbum as well?
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Great Lilium show everyone !!! Glorious plants !
Göte - that L. superbum is a real stunner !!
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Wunderful Lilies from everybody :o 8)
L.martagon now in flower.
I'm a bit afraid flowers will wilt quickly due 30°C today and forecast up to 34°C for next week.
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That is lovely Armin. Don't they hold themselves so beautifully, nicely spaced and elegant, no banging into each other? :)
I don't really want it to be 34C here, but something above the present 3C would be appreciated. ??? Not quite snowing, but really nasty cold and sleety.
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Dear friends, your lilies are delightful! My martagons expose the flowers also. It is the happiest time for me! :)
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Elena,
Breathtaking range of colours. I have got to grow some martagons from seed one of these years..... such wonderful colours and they would then be acclimated here to my conditions. Aren't the "turks cap" types just so beautiful?
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Wonderful Lillies Elena and Armin !!
Armin, I hope your martagon stands the heat !! :-\
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That is a wonderful collection of martagons elena
Cheers
Göte
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Dear friends, many thanks for your attention! I hope that I can show some more my favourite martagons! If it is not too impudent :-X :)
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"more martagons?" How wonderful!! 8) :-*
I find this one of the most elegant of lilies and the colour range is so pleasing.
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Dear Maggi, thanks! I the absolute "slave" to these lilies! :) And I am glad to divide the love with good people!
Martagons are fine at all stages of growing:
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How could I have missed this thread? Super lilies and some lovely colour forms Elena.
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Gorgeous Lilium, I agree, Armin your shots of the L martagon are really super - it is quite difficult to get the focus right and the colour balance but here are two of my recent efforts flowering in my sister-in-law's garden in Scotland in different situations. Photo one in the herbaceous border full sunlight, photo two in the dappled shade rhododendron area. Both looked spectacular :)
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Gorgeous Lilium, I agree, Armin your shots of the L martagon are really super - it is quite difficult to get the focus right and the colour balance but here are two of my recent efforts flowering in my sister-in-law's garden in Scotland in different situations. Photo one in the herbaceous border full sunlight, photo two in the dappled shade rhododendron area. Both looked spectacular :)
You have the caption 'martagon' but surely these are not martagons but pyrenaicum or something similar. they are very good anyway.
Göte
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Fantastic everybody! lucky gardeners!....
Last week I checked 5 locations of Lilium pyrenaicum in the wild looking for "rubrum" forms and all were yellow. Anyway it was an amazing sight, Lilium pyrenaicum mixed with Lilium martagon.
keeping posting this marvellous species, I love this genus!
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oops! thanks for the correction Gote ;)
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After 3 attempts at importing and trying to establish Lilium 'Mrs. R.O. Backhouse' one from Sweden has finally decided to open a flower today. Unfortunately it is the white form of L. martagon. 'Mrs. R.O. Backhouse' doesn't seem to available in North America, at least here and the real thing. Has anyone found it difficult or rare? I have heard it is a common and a very good do-er in Scandinavia. Most maddening.
johnw
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John, while I can't verify that it is, indeed, the "real thing", 'Mrs. R. O. Backhouse' has been available in this area for the last couple of decades... (by which I mean, since the time I started gardening, i.e. taking notice. :))
(While I've never acquired that particular variety, martagons are generally very hardy, and easy to grow here, and hence, relatively popular across the prairies. There is also quite a lot of martagon breeding going on, in these parts, as well, which is fitting with considerable amount of asiatic lily breeding that's also gone on, on the prairies. )
Here is one down-home supplier; from the photo in the website, perhaps you can judge whether it is the real deal or not:
http://www.parkland-perennials.com/cat/section.php?id=5&sc=0
What do you think? ???
(By the way, the wonderful photos of martagons have reminded me that mine will be over a month late this year, when they finally start to bloom!)
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Today at Weekly Lisse Flowershow there was one Lily entry with the following note:
This edible Lilium was bought as a dry bulb on the market in Sichuan in June 2007.
It shows some affinity with Lilium davidii.
I hope somebody is able to tell more about the species.
This plant was grown in a pot and ca. 40 cm. high.
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Oh dear, poor lily, so sad to be edible.
Elena, your martagons are really wonderful. Thanks so much for sharing them with us.
I don't think the foliage on Robin's is quite right for pyrenaicum, but perhaps a hybrid?
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A propos the edible chinese lily: I 've had this message sent to me.......thanks Trilian15 !
Hello SRGC/Lilium 2009 discussion,
The finest Chinese edible lily bulb, the Lanzhou Lily, should be available in some Asian/Chinese markets in Europe.
The species is Lilium davidii var unicolor / more information: www.lzbh.gov.cn
If any of you is lactose-intolerant like me, you would be very interested in the high level of B2 in bulbs.
There are other edible lily bulbs too, but this is said to be the best of all.
All the best,
trilian15
The website is in Chinese... but the photos are the clue!! I am off tomorrow to the local Chinese supermarket..... I've seen those packs there but din't recognise them!!
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I can only agree lilium davidii.
I think that it would be quite possible to grow Lilium lancifolium or bulbiferum to edible size at a reasonable cost (for a delicatessen) ;D.
Bulbiferum will be of the size of a common onion i a couple of years
Göte.
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Thank you so much Maggi. I'll pass this message to the exhibitor and to KAVB.
Must have a look in Chinese toko's here in the cities. There are several not too far away.
Don't know if they are real delicatessen but for sure something different from chocolate ;D ;D 8)
The Website picture looks like the same lily and the growing field is gorgeous.
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John, while I can't verify that it is, indeed, the "real thing", 'Mrs. R. O. Backhouse' has been available in this area for the last couple of decades... (by which I mean, since the time I started gardening, i.e. taking notice. :))
(While I've never acquired that particular variety, martagons are generally very hardy, and easy to grow here, and hence, relatively popular across the prairies. There is also quite a lot of martagon breeding going on, in these parts, as well, which is fitting with considerable amount of asiatic lily breeding that's also gone on, on the prairies. )
Here is one down-home supplier; from the photo in the website, perhaps you can judge whether it is the real deal or not:
http://www.parkland-perennials.com/cat/section.php?id=5&sc=0
What do you think? ???
(By the way, the wonderful photos of martagons have reminded me that mine will be over a month late this year, when they finally start to bloom!)
Lori - Thanks for the link. While the description says a few spots, the photo show many more than the photo I have from Sweden. It would be interesting to hear what others think.
Some great lily work so being done out your way.
By the way the martagons were just starting to come out in the BG in St John's today.
johnw
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While everyone has martagons blooming..... at the end of the season if anyone has spare seed of assorted colours etc to spare, could I beg or trade for some please? I would very much like to grow some of these from seed (or any of the turk's cap types for that matter, as I just love the flower form). I realise that is a way off yet, given we're only just coming into flowering, but I thought it best to "plant" the idea now. ;D
Thoroughly enjoying the Lilium photos everyone. Thank you all for posting. 8)
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John, here is a description from the Lily Register of 'Mrs R. O. Backhouse', if it is helpful... (mind you, I always find these descriptions do leave a considerable margin for variation, e.g. amount of spotting in many cases)....
http://www.lilyregister.com/register/details.php?id=2075
The site also shows a photo which is, however, unverified.
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While everyone has martagons blooming..... at the end of the season if anyone has spare seed of assorted colours etc to spare, could I beg or trade for some please? I would very much like to grow some of these from seed (or any of the turk's cap types for that matter, as I just love the flower form). I realise that is a way off yet, given we're only just coming into flowering, but I thought it best to "plant" the idea now. ;D
Start reminding me in August. It is easily accomplished to send seed but martagon takes a few years from seed to flower.
Göte
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Göte,
Thank you kindly, that would be wonderful. I think I recall that they are 5 to 7 years from seed to flower, or something akin to that. Somewhat longer than the majority of Lilium species (but thankfully not as long as Cardiocrinum for example! ;D)
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Lilium philadephicum, blooming in the garden - the only Lilium species native to the Canadian prairies.
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A gorgeous wild thing, Lori :)
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a couple, not identified. One of them out of proportion
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Nr 2 might be Lilium formosanum var. pricei
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Some Lilium which we cannot identify???
?? (with leaves)
regale??
pumilum?? (170 cm tall, many flowers; with leaves)
nepalense (smaller flowers, but many flowers; 150 cm tall)
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Hans - Yikes, that doesn't look like nepalense but it is absolutely smashing. I wonder if it could be a hybrid of nepalense? If so I have never heard of one before. I think you should start thinking about a name for it. later identified as majoense
johnw
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Hans,
The first is probably a hybrid of sorts.
The last one seems to be majoense. the more or less cylindrical part of the flower gives it away.
Göte
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a couple, not identified. One of them out of proportion
Rafa you must show the whole plant. Otherwise identification is impossible.
I doubt that the second one is formosanum. The leaves are too wide. There are many trumpets to choose between.
More pictures also fof open flower and we will try to help you
Göte
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Cardiocrinum giganteum started to open on Tuesday here just as I was leaving. This variety has not been dependably hardy here whilst others grow Cardiocrinum giganteum that seem long term. All the local ones are green stemmed. Looking at the Plantsman article by Peter Cox I cannot decide which variety it is - var. giganteum or var. yunnanense. I would presume var. giganteum is the tender one.
The flowers neither open from the top down or the reverse, there are single flowers at top and bottom still to open!
Any thoughts?
johnw - no blue skies here for another week, at least.
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The last one seems to be majoense. the more or less cylindrical part of the flower gives it away.
Göte
Of course, but still very fine.
johnw
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Lucky you Hans to have such a lovely plant of L. majoense, so many flowers. My single bulb hasn't flowered yet but must be edging nearer each year. ???
I think Rafa's top picture is formosanum v. pricei as Luc suggests. It has those big, long buds on such a short plant, to maybe 30 cms or a little more.
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On another look, you may be right Gote. The leaves on mine tend to be a bit longer and strappier.
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exactly ! thank you Luc and Lesley for the ID, I will post another picture when it will bloom.
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Hans , your L. majoense looks very much like mine, it certainly is not nepalense which never
reaches a height of 1.50 m in my garden.
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Hans,
The L. majoense is a cracker. Glorious colour to it, and that wonderful tube to the flower. Not a species I have seen except here I think. Well done, and so many flower. 8)
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On another look, you may be right Gote. The leaves on mine tend to be a bit longer and strappier.
Quite! I enclose a scan of an old picture from 1973 of what I think is formosanum priceii. It is rather different.
I am not an expert on trumpets (they are usually not very hardy in my place) but I doubt thatit can be formosanum of any variety.
Longiflorum???
Göte
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Has Lilium majoense hit the seed lists yet?
Two lovely dark red buds on Lilium grayi here, a first.
johnw - fog & rain & damn chilly, sun promised for Sunday, meanwhile thunder & lightening tonight and tomorrow.
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Hello,
Here are some pictures from the Lilium formosanum I grow, but not sure... look at the leaves.
Lilium anhuiense??
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Mmmm, I'm not sure either.
Gote, your florums certainly look very longi :)
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Is L. majoense not the correct (or recent) name for L. primulinum var burmanicum? In which case it may be on seedlists as that. I think Paul Christian has listed it under that name.
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There are two stunning pics of L. majoense on the Old Forum, Mid July 2005 (starting July 12th) They are from John Humphries who kindly sent me seed. About 8 germinated but only one came through the subsequent winter. That one is still alive and growing, hopefully to flower in a year or two.
Why can't I discover how to copy and paste a link from elsewhere in the Forum? I can't manage to select the bit I want copied.
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http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/15609.html?1126544048
Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 12:35 pm:
John Humphries post no. 125.
I highlight, copy and paste the link at the top of the page and give the post details, Lesley.
it is easier to do with the new forum because each post has it's own link.
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Another Lilium, without name... Lilium lijiangense? but it has little lanceolate leaves, and it is uniflorum.
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Rafa - Seems small but looks like Lilium taliense var kaichen. See my photo under Lilium 2008.
johnw - over 150 mm of rain in June here but how many mm of fog?
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Lilium grayi just out today here.
johnw
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There are two stunning pics of L. majoense on the Old Forum, Mid July 2005 (starting July 12th) They are from John Humphries who kindly sent me seed. About 8 germinated but only one came through the subsequent winter. That one is still alive and growing, hopefully to flower in a year or two.
Why can't I discover how to copy and paste a link from elsewhere in the Forum? I can't manage to select the bit I want copied.
No problem on Apple. johnw
Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 12:35 pm:
Here's a lily that fills the evening garden with scent.
L majoense from China has varied amounts of colour in the throat from merely speckled to almost totally purple-maroon.
You'll find it under L primulinum var ochraceum but it may yet get its own cultivar name.
Only trouble is like nepalense it hangs its head so you have to prop it up to see it. You can smell it from 20 yards though.
I had it in such deep shade that I could barely get a photograph last year so I've lifted a couple and they'e done well in pots, about 45" high.
Cheers
John H. Hampshire, South West England
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beautiful species John, I love both!
Thank you for the ID, I was looking for this name in IPNI, but no results, Is var. kaichen very new species?
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I don't have any real experience of Lilium but obtained seed from the last SRGC Seed Ex as follows:-
Lilium brownii-which I read to be an immediate hypogeal variety
Lilium mackliniae-which I read to be an immediate epigeal varity
Lilium martagon which I read to be delayed hypogeal variety.
Seeds of all three were sown on 10 February 2009 and I have good germination from all of them. They germinated in my open frame which snails regard as the snail equivalent of McDonalds, and have been moved to the greenhouse. Should I leave them in the seed pots for another year or.........??
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Unless they're VERY crowded, leave them for another year David. Even if they are too crowded, only break the mass into three or four and repot each of those. Don't try to single them out. Too small.
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Thank you for the link lesson. I'll have to practise :D
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Thanks Lesley.
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beautiful species John, I love both!
Thank you for the ID, I was looking for this name in IPNI, but no results, Is var. kaichen very new species?
Rafa - Remember only the grayi is mine, the majoense is pasted from a July 2005 posting from John Hampshire for Lesley.
I don't know how valid var. kaichen is, it originated from Chen Yi I hear.
johnw
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The markings on the majoense are just amazing. 8)
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Rafa,
I do not think this is formosanum. As you say look at the leaves.
Lilium formosanum
Leaves 10-12 cm long 4-7mm wide. Linear to narrowly lanceolate
Lilium longiflorum.
Leaves 8-15cm long 1-1.8cm wide. Lanceolate to oblong lanceolate.
Most trumpet lilies occur in China so I suggest a visit to the homepage of Flora of China.
Re kaichen. The plants from Chen Yi = Kaichen are often misnamed and sometimes varieties unknown to (western) botanists. Thus some people have resorted to call some of the varieties kaichen to distinguish from other varieties. Not botanically correct but at least a name and one that works.
Yes Lesley, Majoense is another name for ochraceum but the whole complex ochraceum-primulinum-burmanicum-nepalense- is very floating. Majoense seems to differ from the normal ochraceum in the flower shape.
Lijiangense is definitely yellow all over and has many flowers on good spikes.
Cheers
Göte
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The L. lijiangense is very beautiful Gote. It looks very thick and waxy-textured too. I love that spotting.
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Beautiful, Göte. Great colour and shapre. I like the canadense (I think?) in the background too.
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John and Göte, thank you very much for clarify me about these Lilium, I don't know much about this genus, so thank you for this interesting information.
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Beautiful, Göte. Great colour and shapre. I like the canadense (I think?) in the background too.
Yep canadense
Göte
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The L. lijiangense is very beautiful Gote. It looks very thick and waxy-textured too. I love that spotting.
I find the black line intriguing. It only appears in certain Chinese lilies. I think it is a sign of relationship.
Göte
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Gote, very beautiful lily! As a toy! :)
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A lily I got from Chenyi as Lilium gloriosoides to replace an earlier correct one which I thought had died but is coming again.
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Wow! I do like that pagoda shape and parchment colouring, together with sandlewood look-alike anthers Tony :)
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But surely not gloriosoides which is a var or ssp of speciosa??? It certainly isn't very Gloriosa-like. ???
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Lesley,
I think his comment "An earlier correct one" was a give-away that he didn't think that the new replacement was correct. ;D I rather like the replacement. Interesting colour, form and substance to it. I wonder what it actually is?
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A lily I got from Chenyi as Lilium gloriosoides to replace an earlier correct one which I thought had died but is coming again.
Tony - I smell Lilium sargentiae in its blood but admittedly difficult to tell; sargentiae leaves here circa 24cm long. Here is a sargentiae that we grow, collected by Jens Nielsen (NW Yunanan as I recall) and selected by a Danish friend. It is very tall brute of a thing. Bulbils aplenty here. ;)
johnw
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Lol. I'm trying to remember which thread it was, where we had the discussion of ChenYi Lilium and how just about anything could end up being L.sargentiae. Especially if it is true that 'sources' of L.gloriosoides have 'dried up' out there!
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John mine does look like sargentiae but it is quite dwarf,50cms tall and leaves about 5cms long and does not have any bulbils.I have looked at the picture in Philips and Rix 'Bulbs' and apart from the bulbils it corresponds quite well.
It is a bit disappointing as I much prefer the speciosum types to the trumpets but if the gloriosoides recovers I will have both.
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How big was the bulb, Tony? Ours took a couple of years to get to 2m and didn't have bulbils straight away.
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I got it in Jan 03 and it flowered last year for the first time. The bulb was about 4cms in diameter when it arrived. I have a real problem with lilies in that quite often they make no above ground growth because they are eaten by slugs as they are emerging.This does tend to set them back a bit.
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Hi, please help with this lost lable Lilium grown from seed, it is nearly 5 ft in height and has been flowering for a week or so no scent. cheers Ian the Christie kind
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Ian,
Beautiful flowers, and cracker of a colour. I'm assuming some form of Martagon? Wish I was growing it here.... a positive ray of sunshine by the look of it. Good flower count too I think. Good luck with IDing.
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Ian,
Could it be L. hansonii or the hybrid of it, L. x marhan?
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I got it in Jan 03 and it flowered last year for the first time. The bulb was about 4cms in diameter when it arrived. I have a real problem with lilies in that quite often they make no above ground growth because they are eaten by slugs as they are emerging.This does tend to set them back a bit.
That does seem quite a small bulb. It would be interesting to hear how it develops next year.
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Hi, please help with this lost lable Lilium grown from seed, it is nearly 5 ft in height and has been flowering for a week or so no scent. cheers Ian the Christie kind
Looks like a martagon-hansonii hybrid to me. A good one. It does not have the hansonii buds otherwise i would have guessed hansonii var.
Göte
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John mine does look like sargentiae but it is quite dwarf,50cms tall and leaves about 5cms long and does not have any bulbils.I have looked at the picture in Philips and Rix 'Bulbs' and apart from the bulbils it corresponds quite well.
What about brownii? It is quite common in China and has no bulbils.
There are a number of trumpets to choose between in China.
Try 'Flora of China' on the net.
Göte
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...hansonii var. Göte? Never heard of this one before ;D
Now seriously - are there any green-flowered Lilium hybrids around at all? The reason why I'm asking is that there are quite a few species which have green as the dominant colour in the flower, and someone must surely have tried to create a green hybrid?
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...hansonii var. Göte? Never heard of this one before ;D
Now seriously - are there any green-flowered Lilium hybrids around at all? The reason why I'm asking is that there are quite a few species which have green as the dominant colour in the flower, and someone must surely have tried to create a green hybrid?
Hansonii Varietas "Incognitum". I am influenced by the way a certain Chinese names odd plants. ;D
Did you read 'vir'??
There are some with a certain greenish tinge. deGraff had 'Green Dragon' and 'Green Magic'on the market fifty years ago. Some of the nepalense and that ilk are quite greenish. i have NOT doctored the picture here posted.
Göte
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Great, Göte! The second one reminds me of a green lijiangense.
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I grew Green Dragon and Green Magic many years ago. Green Dragon was a clone and Green Magic a strain, I think derived from Green Dragon, and they were superb garden lilies. Nothing much like them available now unfortunately. I think bred from L. leucanthum. Black Dragon was even more stunning, bred from L. leucanthum centifolium. I'd love to be able to buy such lilies again now.
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Hi, thanks to everyone for input for my Lilium, and it is most likely L. marhan it was grown from our own seed and yes I do like it, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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Now seriously - are there any green-flowered Lilium hybrids around at all? The reason why I'm asking is that there are quite a few species which have green as the dominant colour in the flower, and someone must surely have tried to create a green hybrid?
A local lily hybridizer here in USDA zone 7 Maryland, USA by the name of Vicki Bowen (who incidentally is a Yorkshire girl who married a WWII GI and ended up in nearby Rockville, MD) specialized for years in unspotted, pastel Asiatic hybrid lilies at a time when these were new and rarely seen. She once told me that she initially used the de Graaff hybrid strain 'Panamint' to get started in this direction.
Her best known green-flowered hybrid she calls 'Green Reflections'; it was never commercialized as far as I know, but Mrs. Bowen still grows it.
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Göte,
That second one is incredible. What a colour!! Stunning.
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A clearer photo of Lilium grayi still in flower here and I have selfed all the flowers so hopefully seed.
johnw
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I grew Green Dragon and Green Magic many years ago. Green Dragon was a clone and Green Magic a strain, I think derived from Green Dragon, and they were superb garden lilies. Nothing much like them available now unfortunately. I think bred from L. leucanthum. Black Dragon was even more stunning, bred from L. leucanthum centifolium. I'd love to be able to buy such lilies again now.
Me too
Göte
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Great, Göte! The second one reminds me of a green lijiangense.
In a way yes the pedicels are similar but the leaves were - i think - quite different.
there is a different feel to them.
Göte
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Wow, John. Striking spotting! :o
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I immediately thought 'Green Dragon' too Martin. I've never seen this but remember Beverley Nichols waxing lyrical in one of his charming books. I think it was a Jan de Graf (f?) hybrid, from Oregon but there surely are more since then?
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Your grayii is a marvel John. I take it that it varies because the forms I have seen in gardens here and have myself grown from seed have a much clearer delineation between the orange and the red, with less spotting. Yours is superb.
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Hi all, super pictures, here is my Lilium greyi which is a red flower, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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Ian,
that's a stunning red... I've put it on my wishlist.... Everytime I look at this forum I see something I like, if it keeps on going like this I'll have a wishlist of 100 pages ;)
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......... Everytime I look at this forum I see something I like, if it keeps on going like this I'll have a wishlist of 100 pages ;)
Just like the rest of us Wim! ;D
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This has not been a good year for some of my lilies so i post an old pic of grayii.
I used to have two and had seed every year. Then one died and seed setting ceased.
New small plants from various sources are coming along so I will eventually have seed again some time in the future.
Books tell me that grayii is slender and less robust than canadense. However, my grayiis have always been twice as thick as my canadenses and come up later but very vigourously.
Comments anyone? Is grayii stronger or weaker than canadense??
Göte
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Oh Wow!! That looks like an absolutely amazing species!! :o :o Be it orange, or red, I like it!! ;D
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Super picture Gote, a well grown plant, one thing about Lilium greyi it produces small bulbils so is easy to grow these on it takes time but worth the effort I remove some in Sept. I post Lilium duchartrei and Lilium pardalinum var? cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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I see you've got rain in Kirrie too, Ian. Super Lilium duchartrei. Must release mine from their pot.I have 5 stems but only a single flower each.
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Oh yes Ian, and Gote, your L. grayii are very fine. Superb in fact. Must look for a better seed source.
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Super picture Gote, a well grown plant, one thing about Lilium greyi it produces small bulbils so is easy to grow these on it takes time but worth the effort I remove some in Sept. I post Lilium duchartrei and Lilium pardalinum var? cheers Ian the Christie kind.
Thank you. It is more luck than skill I am afraid. I have never noticed any bulbils but have not looked for them. However, they would not work as pollinators anyway.
That is a really good and real duchartreii. I have never before seen anyone with such a clear umbel. Those I grow cannot make up their minds, Umbel or raceme. (and fewer flowers :( )
Göte
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Those of you who are members, or, like me, lurk at the PBS site, may have seen this, but I had to mention it here.....Forumist Jim McKenney, a long-time lily show judge, has had his first best in show prize with one of his own stems..... see it here..... it is lovely....
http://jimmckenney.com/longwood_award_for_best_in_show.htm
and read the story in the PBS pages: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/pbs/2009-July/034277.html or in Jim's blog : http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ for Sunday 12th July
Well done, Jim !
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Thanks for the kind words, Maggi.
I would trade that show-winning stem (and the bulb which produced it) in a flash for one of Göte's Lilium grayi. ;) Lilium grayi did very well here for years, but it was lost in a garden accident.
It amuses me that this species, which grows wild only a few hundred miles south and west of my garden, grows so well in NW Europe but is considered extremely difficult here.
Ian mentioned bulbils for this species; I've never seen aerial stem bulbils with this species, but the bulbs of this species have short, stout, sometimes rounded, easily detached scales which will remind some of the rice grain bulbils of some western North American Fritillaria.
I've been away from the forum for weeks - wow! I've missed a lot. Some of you are obviously having a wonderful lily season. The images have been terrific!
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Hi Jim all, yes indeed I am meaning that the mother bulb produces rice grains and sometimes bigger bulbils around this mother bulb it is these which I detach then pot up and wait sorry to confuse you but I do wonder from others if they find lilium greyi easy it is not that easy here and it is suggested that bulbs have a virus. I think that often bulb growth is destroyed by high wind and heavy rain even hailstones which we have had here recently. cheers Ian the Christie kind Well done with your exhibit.
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I do not find grayii difficult - I am probably lucky to have the right biotope - It is very slow, however.
MIne are seed propagated so they are probably virus free.
Göte
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Lilium chalcedonicum in flower today
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Lilium chalcedonicum in flower today
Don't you just love that colour, Tony! 8) 8) 8)
One of my all-time favourite lilies.
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I second that Tony !
Wonderful deep colour !
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This is its first time of flowering and I am very pleased with it. have never seen one in flower before
Martin your pollen is posted and I have fertlised mine with yours this morning
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Martin your pollen is posted and I have fertlised mine with yours this morning
Ooh, you are naughty!
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::)
;D ;D
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This is a very busy time I hardly have time to look at the pictures even less i have time to upload but here we go.
A neighbour of mine used to have beautiful martagon albums one day they disappeared. Some years later I noticed Daffodils along the roadside and wondered who had dumped them This year I know what happened to the lilies They grow at the roadside dumped by someone wo did not appreciate them. here they are:
I also show a group and close up of hansonii. This is the one that you get by sowing hansonii seed. more yellow and more curly than th eold type.
Lilium cernuum, flowers for the first time for me. I am a little disappointed that the colour is so much martagon colour - but it is graceful indeed.
Cheers
Göte
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A fantastic sight, Gote, thanks so much for posting the lilium at such a busy time - it is wonderful to see plants growing where they choose to even if they were dumped - shows how adaptable they are and now we can all enjoy them ;)
I think your Lilium cernuum is extremely graceful in flower and in bud, congratulations on its first flowering :)
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Gote,
Beautiful!! I love the turk's cap types. Must admit I had never really noticed cernuum or hansonii until seeing pictures of them this year. Both look like they're stunning!! Thanks so much for the pics
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Ian , your L. grayi and duchartrei are just superb -congratulations !What is the magic recipe?
my L. duchartrei runs about - some square meters - but never more than 3-5 flowers per
stem . Probably not cold enough here .
otto.
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Otto,
I've sown seed of duchatrei this year, so I hope mine does as well. Somehow I don't think it will run about much here though. ;) Wouldn't mind if it did. ;D
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Hi, thanks for kind words but I do nothing special, just let them grow sending out stolons which produce maybe only one or two flowers then as they get bigger and better. here is another picture taken today Lilium leichtlinii, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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There is a Lilium ID query here: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3868.new#new
..... help, please?
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A Lilium I call tsingtauense (I got the seed under that name) is flowering now. I cut one and put in a vase to show the habitus with a single whorl. There are next to no leaves below the whorl. Some say that it is a hybrid between the "real tsingtauense" and distichum basing this perhaps on the slightly irregular flowers. I doubt. These are 130 cm and my distichum is only 95cm and very slender with a peculiar way of growing. The flowers are about third the size of these.
Lilium concolor was first described from an unspotted (and rare) type. When the normal was found it was named var pulchellum.
The third lily came from seed labeled lijiangense. I doubt. The flowers are much lighter in colour, the pedicel is not so bent and there is adifferent feel to the whole plant. ideas anyone??
Cheers
Göte
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Wow, I have only just seen your Lilium duchartrei (must change the spelling on my label), Ian. It is magnificent. Mine only has one flower head yet, how long will it take to make a multiple head?
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Hi David, I am not sure how long you have grown your Lilium duchartrei but i have several with 5, 6 flowers on a stem and do nothing special, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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Gote,
I think your seedling might be L. taliense. I grew some for my own seed and the 2 which have flowered so far are different colours of cream/pale yellow. Does is have bulbs along an underground stolon?
Attached is the parent.
Susan
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Gote,
I think your seedling might be L. taliense. I grew some for my own seed and the 2 which have flowered so far are different colours of cream/pale yellow. Does is have bulbs along an underground stolon?
Attached is the parent.
Susan
I have thougt about that or xanthellum. It is difficult when there is only one flower. the pedicels and the way the sit are sometimes an indication. It looks like your pictue except thatit is slightly yellowish. Your pedicel is different but you have a multiflowered plant. It came up where the bulb is. I do not think itis stoloniferous - (Lijiangense is not).
Thank you for your input
Göte
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Yes Gote, I thought that too. I am not sure what the difference between L. taliense and xantheum is apart from the colour and as I said a seeedling from the white taliense came yellow like yours. I would say it is not lijiangense as all the ones I have seen are the strong yellow and have thicker stronger leaves and thicker petals. I think you would need to grow both L. taliense and xantheum together to work out which is which. At the moment I only grow one which I am calling taliense until someone tells me different.
Susan
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Then of course there is L. fargesii
Susan
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Lilium cernuum var. album
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Lori,
Isn't that just so beautifully pristine? :o Strikingly beautiful. Thanks.
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Gorgeous Lori, so simply pure and a beautiful shape
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Lilium canadense (2 shots) in bloom today and Lilium polyphyllum just finishing up.
Sun! ;D
johnw
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John,
Great colour on the canadense. They're such a lovely shape, even if they do all face downwards. Reminds me of when I used to grow them here a few years ago. Beautiful, and that is a wonderful amount of flowers on one stem. I could never get anything like that number here when I grew it. :o
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This has not been a good year for some of my lilies so i post an old pic of grayii.
I used to have two and had seed every year. Then one died and seed setting ceased.
New small plants from various sources are coming along so I will eventually have seed again some time in the future.
Books tell me that grayii is slender and less robust than canadense. However, my grayiis have always been twice as thick as my canadenses and come up later but very vigourously.
Comments anyone? Is grayii stronger or weaker than canadense??
Göte
Beautiful flowers. I have tried Lilium grayi from seed, but lost it. Is it one you sell Ian (the kind Christie)? (Vivienne's maiden name is Gray).
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Lilium cernuum var. album
Lori - That's a beauty.
johnw
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Thanks, all!
John, your L. canadense is gorgeous, as is L. polyphyllum! In the McRae book, it's said that L. canadense wants acid soil and constant moisture (neither of which we have here). Does that seem to be true?
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Lilium cernuum var. album
I think this one has been described by Nakai in 1917 as var. candidum.
It is areal beauty. I have never seen it before or even a picture.
You are lucky.
Göte
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Thanks, all!
John, your L. canadense is gorgeous, as is L. polyphyllum! In the McRae book, it's said that L. canadense wants acid soil and constant moisture (neither of which we have here). Does that seem to be true?
It seems to be true but there is a differenc between liking and needing. My canadense seeds itself in a place where the water table is very high but it can also be grown as a normal woodlander. I have not tried in a high pH environment.
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Thanks, all!
John, your L. canadense is gorgeous, as is L. polyphyllum! In the McRae book, it's said that L. canadense wants acid soil and constant moisture (neither of which we have here). Does that seem to be true?
Lori - Lilium canadense is native to meadows and stream banks here, usually in places with rich soil. Soil is scarce on the coast so mainly inland. Sometimes in areas with gypsum deposits.
johnw
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And this little discussion you have had going on has definitely explained to me why my canadense died a few years ago.... obviously not nearly enough water while in growth. And I'm guessing it needs fairly dry/perfect drainage while dormant?
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And this little discussion you have had going on has definitely explained to me why my canadense died a few years ago.... obviously not nearly enough water while in growth. And I'm guessing it needs fairly dry/perfect drainage while dormant?
This is the received wisdom for all tricky subjects ;D but some of mine are nearly flooded all winter - but in a "natural" environment with grasses and all kinds of weeds.
Göte
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Lilium nepalense just about to open. Awaiting the night fragrance. It's my favourite of the species.
johnw
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John, what a fabulous lilium I love the chocolate centre with that shade of green and it hangs so elegantly :)
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Thanks Gote. Will definitely have to try them again. That goes for a number of the Lilium species I think. We had a couple of dreadful summers and I just didn't keep enough water up to them. We live and learn. ::)
John,
I love the nepalense. Congratulations!! :)
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Martagons have already finished flowering, but the folder with photos will be a good entertainment during long long Russian winter.
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A Very nice range of martagon hybrids, Elena. I have 'Early Bird' but don't think I've seen any of the others in gardens or nursery catalogues here. All very nice indeed. 8)
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Oh my goodness Elena. What a glorious range of colours!!!!!!!!! :o
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My dear friends, I am glad that is pleasant to you. Thanks!
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Elena,
you have wonderful L. martagon hybrids :o 8) 8) 8)
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A gorgeous album of photos of your L. martagon hybrids, Elena - wonderful to have such success in growing them and appreciate their beautiful colours in the winter months
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Hi ,
Extraordinary photos Elena!!! Beautiful colors!!! I wonder if we can have such marvels in Europe. Has anybody heard of such hybrids on offer in nurseries?
Elena, are you breeding hybrid Martagon lilium ?
Thanks for this stunning photo album
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Friends, once again thanks! You are very kind to me!
Oh, Jean, you press my sore point :) I do not do hybrids. I have a small garden and is not present a place for high-grade cultivation seedling and selection of perspective variants. When I will be the millionaire, I can buy a big field and devote the life my favourite martagons! 8) 8) 8)
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some more favourite...
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That 'Orange Marmalade' is especially lovely, Elena. I really like the colour.
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Strangely, looking at these martagon hybrids, I can actually smell that distinctive martagon scent. I like it but I know some people don't. Same with the somewhat similar Lilium szovitsianum fragrance - I like the scent but I know other gardeners who can't stand it.
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Aroma super!! I catch a smell of all sweets on a planet! My husband catches shades of cucumbers :) :)
Martin, 'Orange Marmalade' really good. In a garden it looks as a toy. Very amusing!
This year the big impression of one more group of lilies. One of Lankongense hybrids has blossomed. Wow! I in delight!
Somebody has these lilies?
P.S. I ask to forgive me. The photo name was displayed not correctly. It has been written on russian. Oops :-\ It is "Peggi".
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Lilium nepalense just about to open. Awaiting the night fragrance. It's my favourite of the species.
johnw
I have two flowers, just about past now, this year, but dozens of smaller plants and seedlings. My flowering plants are in a pot.
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Aroma super!! I catch a smell of all sweets on a planet! My husband catches shades of cucumbers :) :)
Martin, 'Orange Marmalade' really good. In a garden it looks as a toy. Very amusing!
This year the big impression of one more group of lilies. One of Lankongense hybrids has blossomed. Wow! I in delight!
Somebody has these lilies?
Noses are strange things when it comes to flower scents. Some people smell one thing, and others smell something very different.
Elena, 'Orange Marmalade' looks very unusual, a little like a large-flowered eremurus I think with those outward-facing starry flowers. And I see what you mean - it does also look like a brightly-painted child's wooden toy. The lankongense hyrbid is also very nice. Do you know what the other parent was?
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Martin, in "blood" of Peggi is Maxwill (L. davidii hybrid) and Enchantment.
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Elena,
Interesting spotting on the 'Peggi'. Of those last martagons you have shown.... I love the "No Name 2" and the "Backhouse Hybrid" the best. Interesting colour blends to them. Thanks for the extra pics. 8)
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My mother's name is Peggy (short for Margaret). :) Beautiful spotting on the petals.
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1) Unnamed martagon from a friend, who has started to produce crosses.
2) Asiatic hybrids 'Sheena' and...
3) 'Cinnamon Toast'
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Lovely colours, Lori - the unnamed one is very attractive in colour and spotting - do the petals start off curved in to a turks cap?
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Lori, Sheena is fine! Very beautiful!
The similar lily blossomed this year. And we cannot define the name.
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Now I'm hooked! I'm going to have to get some hansonii and medeoloides and try some crosses with my various martagons. I assume using medeoloides is how those gorgeous orangey, marmaladey colours are introduced into the martagon hybrids. Does anyone know if there are any other lilies now known to cross with martagon, as my knowledge in this area is a bit dated. Also, anyone know of a reliable source for medeoloides?
I'm sure I can find the space and time for raising a few martagon hybrids in between all the snowdrop crosses...I think...I hope...I'm mad.
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Actually, raising martagon hybrids alongside snowdrops isn't such an odd idea. I find martagon is the ideal lily for growing with snowdrops in the sort of summer-dry woodlandy garden that suits snowdrops. The martagons, I find, are tough as old boots, don't need summer watering and will get along in quite deep shade and even bone dry summer soil provided they get some rain in spring to get them started. Interplanted with snowdrops they're ideal summer-colour companion plants.
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Robin, the martagons open somewhat flatter and then curve up into a turk's-cap.
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Martin, when you speak "others martagons", you think of orange colours? I correctly understand? Sorry, my English very bad both for conversation and for understanding. I have very orange grade Brunswieck. Still is very bright orange "Tsing", "Super Tsing", "Tsingense", "Nepera" (sorry, no photo). Light orange "Lightning Bug". And I wish good luck! :)
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Martin, I will have to check references, but off the cuff... I seem to recall that crosses with L. tsingtauense, which is closely related to L. martagon, may have been the way to produce orange martagon crosses.
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Yes, Elena, I meant what other lily species would cross with martagon to give the orange colours. I know the orange medeoloides is supposed to cross with martagon. I wondered if any other orange species are known to also cross with martagon.
Thanks, Lori. I'll see if I can find out anything more about tsingtauense crossing with martagon and where it's obtainable from.
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Elena, Brunswieck and Lightning Bug are both lovely.
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Elena,
All those hybrids are extraordinary!!!
Martin,
I'm not a specialist but could it be possible to cross martagons with lilium hansonii?
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Martin,
I'm not a specialist but could it be possible to cross martagons with lilium hansonii?
Yes, that's been done quite a lot in the past, but it doesn't produce the sort of bright oranges seen in some of Elena's hybrids. I think that colouring must come from crossing with medeoloides and/or tsingtauense - both these orange-flowered lilies grow in parts of eastern Russia, so it would make sense for Russian breeders to have used them in the past.
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Some Asiatic hybrids...
1) 'Suntan'... L. cernuum was used in the breeding of this one, by Barber (1975).
2) 'Caress' with Rosa 'John Cabot'.
3) Another of Ed McRae's "pot lilies", 'Butter Pixie'.
4) 'Granny', a tetraploid.
5) 'Simply Red'
6) 'Goodnight'
And...
7) Lilium amabile.
By the way, Ed McRae, in his book, Lilies: A Guide for Growers and Collectors, has a lot of the history of hybridizing - it's a very good read in general.
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All lovely looking growing amongst other flowers, Lori, all the combinations are beautiful but the combination of lilium caress with the rose(?) is fabulous :)
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Thanks, Robin! I put 'Caress' in a raised planter, to make the down-facing flowers easier to see... but now it's being crowded out by a thuggish giant columbine, so I will have to intervene again!
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Hello people
I've been a lurker for a few years now and enjoying all the posts, so maybe it's about time I contributed.
My understanding of martagons is that there are 5 species in the group.
Martagon itself (that's the pinkish one that everybody knows), hansonii, tsingtauense, medeoloides and distichum.The last 3 are in various orange shades, tsingtauense being the "hottest" orange.All 5 will cross with each other.
Then there are several varieties of some of the species ---album,cattaniae, albiflorum, daugava, caucasicum etc.All these varieties will breed with each other and with the 5 species.
Herr Otto Beutnagel of Germany bred your Brunsweik, Elena.I believe it should be more yellow than your photo shows--the parents were Terrace City Hybrids X tsingtauense and it can carry more than 36 blooms! Lucky you!!
Regards
Paul Rumkorf
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Hello, Paul, great to have you begin posting after all this time.... thanks for your Lily input. 8)
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Welcome to the Forum Paul, that's 2 Aussies called Paul. You'll have to be 1 and 2. :)
What a fantastic collection of fabulous lilies in the last couple of weeks. I like the species best but all are quite lovely.
Too many to comment about except to ask, John, in NS, is your L. nepalense fragrant? I've never noticed that though it's in a part of the garden that I don't visit at night. I'll have to change that as I love night-scented plants.
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I never thought there were so many colour forms/ssp of the martagon lily
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Welcome Paul. Good to have you here, as well as seeing your postings on Lilium-L. 8)
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Too many to comment about except to ask, John, in NS, is your L. nepalense fragrant? I've never noticed that though it's in a part of the garden that I don't visit at night. I'll have to change that as I love night-scented plants.
Lesley - Welcome back, we missed you desperately. There were more falling cakes in your absence than we care to admit. ;D
Yes the Lilium nepalense is very fragrant, more so on warm humid summer nights. A real joy and they have been hanging on for a long time, two more just out last night.
johnw
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Hi Paul,
Is it just me, or have you lost weight? Can I ask how the snowdrops are doing in Victoria?
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I have only started growing Lilium over the last few years and have had many losses along the way. My soil is a bit to heavy for many types, but, as I've been ammending the soil for some 8 years, now, I am re-trying various types. I have lots of seedlings from crosses and species coming along, but won't see flowers for some years.
Any of you experts, I have heard one shouldn't grow L. lancifolium, if one wishes to keep their lilies virus-free. Any truth to this? Would be a disappointment, as I have a few plants doing quite well
Here are a few classics from the Orientpets
Conca d'Or
Black Beauty
Palmyra
Palmyra
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Yes L lancifolium can be virus infected.
The problem is severe since nearly all that are grown in Europe are the same triploid sterile clone. Thus we cannot 'clean' it by sowing seed.
If you can get hold of the diploid form as seed you are of course safe.
The yellow lancifoium is diploid and comes true from seed.
Göte
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Thanks, Göte,
what is the normal chromosome count for L. lancifolium? Anyone?
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Diploid forms 2n = 24
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My duchartreiis do not flower so profusely as Ian's do so I show only one flower. ;D
I think the bud is equisite the colours are enev netter in real life.
My distichum has four flowers this year. It is a smallish species but very bright.
I agree perhaps some of the orange in Elena's hybrids originally came from here.
It id funny in not being symmetric.
By the way, Elena your martagon hybrids are fantastic.
Cheers
Göte
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Hi Paul,
Is it just me, or have you lost weight? Can I ask how the snowdrops are doing in Victoria?
G'day Rob, I sold my collection of snowies to Danielle before leaving Tassie 2 years ago this Sept.Big mistake, but I did keep a small box of my seedlings that are quite a few years off from flowering.Otto also gave me 7 species,6 of which are flowering now. :)
LOL ;D lost weight, yes, and along with my super, I'm fading :-\
Thanks for the welcome to the forum, people.
Back to Liliums.
For those interested in martagons, have a look at "MARTAGON LILIES" by Eugene Fox. There is also a super CD on martagons put out by the North Star Lily Society.The photography is superb.
Regards
Paul R
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Ah, yes, Eugene Fox of the now defunct "Fox Lily Ranch" (mail order lily source) in Millet, Alberta, about 2 1/2 hours north of here... recently deceased, sadly, but his stocks were taken over by Estate Perennials, also in the Edmonton, Alberta area.
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Very nice distichum, Gote. I haven't got that species yet, but in the last two years am rapidly building up the collection again.
Using two periods of warm/cold I believe I can flower martagons in four years.I use a large commercial soft drink fridge, but am running out of space and am on the lookout for another :) One of my main aims is to try to breed martagons that will stand Melbourne's summers, and still retain their graceful beauty.So the trait of early flowering would be an advantage.
Does anybody know of anyone having success with a heat hardiness breeding programme with martagons?
Here is Hansonii, a treasured gift from the late Essie Huxley, flowering from last year.I pollinated it with two different seedlings, plus the pollen from cattaniae that a friend gave me.The seed set was excellent.
Regards
Paul R
(http://)
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Hello,
hier an unidentified lily from a friends garden, origin: China
Please can you help us naming it!
All the best from Austria!
Herbert
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Paul,
The thought of the possiblities of hansonii and cattaniae is amazing. Never grown either of them , but love the pics (I adore the colour of the cattaniae pics I have seen.. so rich and dark). The two of those together just sound like they have so many possibilities!! ;D Good luck!! 8)
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Any of you experts, I have heard one shouldn't grow L. lancifolium, if one wishes to keep their lilies virus-free. Any truth to this? Would be a disappointment, as I have a few plants doing quite well
Jamie,
The same I heard and read about lilium tigrinum. But I grow it many years with my other lilies and bulbs with no problem as my stock is of old origin and virus-free. The most importnt is having a virus-free stock. Virus in lilies is not difficult to observe by symptoms of leaf mosaic. All you need is to check your lilium lancifolium for viruses.
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Some lilies from my collection
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more
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Jamie,
The same I heard and read about lilium tigrinum. But I grow it many years with my other lilies and bulbs with no problem as my stock is of old origin and virus-free. The most importnt is having a virus-free stock. Virus in lilies is not difficult to observe by symptoms of leaf mosaic. All you need is to check your lilium lancifolium for viruses.
The problem is that Lilium lancifolium Thunb = tigrinum Ker-gawler can harbour virus without showing visible symptoms. The only way for an amateur is to infect a susceptible species with sap from the T.l. and wait a year.
Göte
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Very nice distichum, Gote. I haven't got that species yet, but in the last two years am rapidly building up the collection again.
Using two periods of warm/cold I believe I can flower martagons in four years.I use a large commercial soft drink fridge, but am running out of space and am on the lookout for another :) One of my main aims is to try to breed martagons that will stand Melbourne's summers, and still retain their graceful beauty.So the trait of early flowering would be an advantage.
Does anybody know of anyone having success with a heat hardiness breeding programme with martagons?
Here is Hansonii, a treasured gift from the late Essie Huxley, flowering from last year.I pollinated it with two different seedlings, plus the pollen from cattaniae that a friend gave me.The seed set was excellent.
Regards
Paul R
(http://)
Thank you. This one grows in a fairly dark place and seems to like it.
Treasure that hansonii! It is the original clone that was first imported to the west. Itis becoming rare.
Göte
Göte
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Hello,
hier an unidentified lily from a friends garden, origin: China
Please can you help us naming it!
All the best from Austria!
Herbert
I am afraid that the naming here is quite difficult. The taxonomists have divided opinions and there is probably not enough material available to get the whole picture.
It has been exported from China under the name Lilium nepalense var. It is undoubtedly related to nepalense but looks to my mind more like Lilium ochraceum which sometimes has been called L nepalense var burmanicum. (I hope this is right I have no books where I write this)
It is very beautiful and I grew it for some years in woodland conditions.
Göte
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The problem is that Lilium lancifolium Thunb = tigrinum Ker-gawler can harbour virus without showing visible symptoms. The only way for an amateur is to infect a susceptible species with sap from the T.l. and wait a year.
Göte
Göte
It is true not all species and cultivars show visible symptoms of virus when infected. According to my 15-year studies of virus on different bulbs, I can say that in case of infection all lilies somewhat show symptoms of desease; the only thing is that on some species or cultivars the symtoms can be less visable and noticable only by profesionals or experienced growers. And I agree that for an amature it is not always easy.
The best way to identify virus in such species or cultivars is to carefully observe the young leaves at the beginning of vegetation. This proves to be very helpful. On the matured leaves virus symptoms are often less visable or not visable.
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By the way, I would like to bring an interesting example, maybe not relevant for the lily topic, but related with virus problems.
I grow some wild native forms of iris reticulata, which are 100% virus free. At the same time I grow several Dutch iris reticulata cultivars for around 5 years. I didn't even sispected that my iris reticulata Dutch cultivars could be virused as they looked quite healthy, when look at them just simply. But hearing many opinions from different bulb fellows that Dutch stocks of many crocus, muscary, iris, etc very often turns out to be infected I decided this year to carefully observe the leaves of all my Dutch iris reticulata cultivars bearing all this in mind, and compare with my wild native ones, which are virus free. And what I found out that all my Dutch cultivars were unfortunately infected. I observed that lighter stripes on the leaves. The thing is that the leaves of iris reticulata are very narrow and from the distance the virus is not visable at all. And only careful observation from a close distance helps to reveal the virus. So other group of plants went to the garbage!!!
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Thank you Gote for your help!
Herbert
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Zhirair,
The point unfortunately becomes that EVERYTHING will need to be thrown out because EVERYTHING has a virus of some point in it, even in the wild. I would imagine that if we got down to the minute detail, there would be some sort of virus inherent in every plant on the planet..... so at what point is something virused and needs to be thrown out? If a virus is benign and never does any harm to that plant or any other plant, is it really a problem? If the only way you could see it on the plant was to look so closely that you normally could not see it, and the virus does not affect flowering or growth, does it really matter if the virus is present? I agree wholeheartedly with trying to keep our plants virus-free where possible, but basically from those that produce unsightly growth or detract from the plant in some way or other (i.e diminished flowering), but until you compared your dutch plants with the wild plants you were happy with the flowering and happy with the plants and their growth..... so what harm did that virus do? Was it REALLY worthwhile throwing your collection out because of it?
OK, part of this is a phylosophical discussion, but in this case I really have to ask...... viruses are everywhere. I would hazard all plants are virused in some form or other, so at what point does a particular virus become bad? Yes, when it negatively affects the plant, but otherwise why should it be a problem if it doesn't?
If this should go in a previous virus discussion, feel free to move it oh-great-and-powerful-moderators. ;) ;D
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The problem is that some plants will live quite happily with being virus infected and their growth and flowering won't be seriously affected but they can then pass virus to other plants which are far more susceptible and which do show severe virus symptoms such as malformed, ugly flowers and stunted growth which make them useless as decorative garden plants. This is especially the case with lilies. Some seem completely immune to the effects of virus but can infect a whole collection, the majority of which will show severe symptoms and become useless.
Of course, if all plants in a particular grouping (species, group of cultivars etc) were equally tolerant of viruses and unaffected by them, there'd be no problem - just like a population of humans that becomes immune to a particular flu virus; the virus is still around and in the sytems of many individuals, and still passed around, but there are no ill effects.
Breeding virus resistance is not simple though. I guess you'd have to infect lots of seedlings, then interbreed those that show no symptoms, and so on. But I can't see many plant breeders wanting work with lots of virused material.
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Martin,
Yes, you're right that some carry and pass it on (and I realise that lancifolium is a known problem for exactly this reason). I was reacting in this particular case to the iris example, which is apparently fairly benign. Problematic viruses very much need to be watched for, as there are a number of people here who have had collections destroyed of various genus, because a virus got in and hit them hard. I was most definitely not saying that we shouldn't be worried about viruses in total.
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I agree with you of course in the general sense, Paul, that we should be aiming to breed disease and pest-resistant plants instead of relying on chemical treatments to keep plant stocks healthy, and that the battle against viruses is an endless one better approached in the long-term via natural resistance instead of constant vigilance to kill virus vector insects and roguing of stocks. It's a very long process, though, and not one that the plant industry is geared up to. The large-scale nursery industry is by nature short-term and prefers to either live with (and sometimes sell!) virused plants and bulbs or try to temporarily clean them up via micro-prop, which is very costly. It's not a problem that's going to go away any time soon.
One of the problems with tolerating a virus in one genus where it;s fairly benign is that it may be transmissible to other genera that are more susceptible. I think this happens with some bulbs but I don't know details.
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We missed the ones, which flowered last month in our local woods- but this one was still flowering on Tuesday at the foot of Mount Musala. One of the smallest flowered martagons we have seen, growing in pine duff on acid soils.
Lilium martagon
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This has turned into an interesting discussion on viri. As I am not a real collector of Lilium at this point, it would seem to be wise to simply work with cultivars that are relatively resistant to virus. I have quite a few seedlings coming along, which will be a good opportunity to do as Martin mentions; breed for viral resistance. I do this with other plants; ie, healthy foliage, resistance to thrips, etc. I've bloomed many beauties that didn't survive the rigours of my garden and that is good so. I hardly have time to coddle everything (some do get coddled. I, too, have moments of illogical weakness ;D)
Thanks all for the input. Puts things into perspective.
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Though I have to swallow hard, I have to ackowledge that with virus we are very often the authors of our own troubles, because so many of us want a named clone or a plant with a history, like Paul's gift from Essie H, that links us to someone. Breeding for resistance certainly allows commercial reproduction of a clone to proceed. Does it help anyone trying to build up a varied collection though? I'd rather all my plants were as susceptible as L. formosanum if it meant that I knew nothing was harbouring virus. A collection of seed-raised plants with more seed safe in the freezer seems slightly more attainable than a long breeding program to make everything more resistant.
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I agree, Rob. Breeding for virus resistance is an 'in an ideal world' sort of thing. The practical answer is strint rogueing and, as you say, raising from seed. The wanting old named varieties with a history is not unfamiliar territory to galanthophiles, and we too have our problems with virus.
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Martin,
Lachenalias (as an example) are a host for the viruses that badly effect Haemanthus etc. They don't show up much on the Lachs, but streak and affect flowering on the Haemanthus. Just an example for one "group" of plants affecting another.
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Very interesting topic we discuss.
I don't think that breeding virus-resistant varieties will be of so much help nowadays in the century of mechanical cultivation, which is very effective for mass production and time-saving, but not often effective in the means of virus spreading. The situation, related with virus, concerning tulips, lilies, daffodils, frits and some other bulbs seems to be O.K. there is few amount of virus plants occurring among these flowers, which is very appreciating. But as to some small bulbs like crocus, bulbous iris, muscari etc, the situation is quite opposite and I can say horrible - a large number of such Dutch produced bulbs turn out to be virused. I spoke several times about this problem with some Dutch growers; they admit that most of the Dutch stock is infected, but say that this virus is not that much harmful for this plants and that is why they don't pay much attention to it.
Anyway, as to me, I am not going to cultivate any bulbs carrying infection, because for the other bulbs it can be harmful. Indeed, very widely spread crocus leaf mosaic doesnt affect tulips and daffodils, but it affect some other bulbs. Tulip colour-breaking virus affects lilies, but its damage on lilies is not as serious as in tulips.
I think the best way to somehow escape receiving virused plants, to get material from the companies, who don't orient on mass production. Some still cultivate bulbs without using any machines and still supply virus-free plants.
I established contacts with some serious Latvian and Lithuanian growers, who supply virus-free material of many plants, which are hard-to-find virus free in Holland. The thing is that their stock of these bulbs was obtained during 70s and 80s, when mechanical culture was not practiced in great scales in Holland. So they still grow virus free Dutch crocus vernus cultivars, iris reticulata cultivars, etc. I am quite happy with that. And from now I only prefer obtaining plants from individual growers and collectors and have the opportunities to grow virus-free plants. Though all new-commers at first go for strict quarantine, and then when everything is okay, join the main collection. This is the only way to have a healthy collection of bulbs.
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A Lilium duchartrei in bloom here... only a single bud and stem, sadly:
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I certaily agree that virus is a menace. I grow several Liliums that probably would be killed within a couple of years if they got it.
For that reason i do not buy commercially available clones. Especially I am sceptical to virus resistant clones since these can infect my plants without showing much of symptoms.
The easy way to be sure is to grow from seed. In the days of Oregon Bulb farms virus was not much of a problem since they produced much of their materials as controlled strains. Thus every bulb was grown from seed. The clonally propagated stock plants were kept in aphid safe houses to prevent them from being infected.
It is possible to clean a Lilium clone. The virus does not grow as fast as the plant does. This means that the meristem tip usually is virus free. Meristem propgataion followed by tests for infection can produce clean stock. In those cases that this has been done to old cultivars they have been found to be markedly more vigorous than the infected parents.
We have to remember that a mass producer of bulbs wants cultivars that are easily propagated and grown to size so that they can be sold with good profit. That is not necessary the same as that they will grow well in the buyer's garden. We have today the proble - at least in sweden - that old cultivars well adapted to being grown our climate are being replaced by new ones that are adapted to quick propagation in the Dutch climate.
Göte
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A post script.
There was a small lily growing club in Stockholm once.
The no longer exist.
One member said to me:
"We found that we were not growing lilies - we were growing lily viruses so we quit"
Göte
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Breeding virus resistance is not simple though. I guess you'd have to infect lots of seedlings, then interbreed those that show no symptoms, and so on. But I can't see many plant breeders wanting work with lots of virused material.
This is exactly what OBF did when trying to increase virus resistance in L. auratum. Material was gathered from as many sources as possible and grown on in open fields together with plants which were known to be infected. Those which seemed unaffected were the basis for their future breeding.
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Breeding virus resistance is not simple though. I guess you'd have to infect lots of seedlings, then interbreed those that show no symptoms, and so on. But I can't see many plant breeders wanting work with lots of virused material.
This is exactly what OBF did when trying to increase virus resistance in L. auratum. Material was gathered from as many sources as possible and grown on in open fields together with plants which were known to be infected. Those which seemed unaffected were the basis for their future breeding.
Thanks, Rob. Interesting to know.
As someone else pointed out, there's a danger with virus-resistant plants in that they can infect non-resistant plants in a collection and because they show no symptoms, there are no warning signs of possible infection.
When mentioning breeding for virus resistance, I was really talking very theoretically. The practical obstacles, both in commerce and in private collections are huge, and the only practical answer right now is strict vigilance, rogueing and most importantly seed raising and seed sharing. I'm certainly not going to deliberately infect all my snowdrop seedlings with virus so I can find a few virus resistant survivors a few years down the line, just in case anyone starts to worry about accepting snowdrops from me in future. ;D
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Very nice pictures, this genus is very interesting to me but I have not many time to surffing in internet to learn more about it. I would like to ask you about any good book just about speices, not hybrids.
Any of yours have any list of hardy species in Z8. I have a seedling of Lilium wardii from SRGC seed list and don't know how hary is it.
Thank you
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Lilium nepalense still giving a decent account of itself what with all the overcast weather.
Also Lilium sargentiae selected in Denmark from a Jens Nielsen collection in China. Flowers are on a small potted plant. The main bulb is 9 feet tall and too distant to photograph well.
johnw - sunny at the moment and getting warm & humid - +22c.
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Wonderful trumpet shapes and I love the creamy green with those toffee coloured anthers, John
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Wow! That sargentiae is fantastic, John! The nepalense's not half bad either.
You say the sargentiae is a selection, so I assume it's clonal. Do you know if it produces almost as good offspring from seed? It really is a superb strong lily.
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Real beauties, both.
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Very nice pictures, this genus is very interesting to me but I have not many time to surffing in internet to learn more about it. I would like to ask you about any good book just about speices, not hybrids.
Any of yours have any list of hardy species in Z8. I have a seedling of Lilium wardii from SRGC seed list and don't know how hary is it.
Thank you
Rafa,
The late Ed McRae's "Lilies, a guide for growers and collectors" is probably the most easily available and though it contains a lot of information on hybridising has a useful overview of species.
As for wardii, I grow it in zone 8/9 (though with summer maxima probably a lot less than yours). For others try joining the Yahoo lily list and going back through the recent messages - several people are growing species lilies in places like Hawaii.
Martin,
The OBF work is a perfect example of the application of population genetics principles to a situation like this. Sustained selection pressure applied to a population can rapidly (a couple of generations) change gene frequencies. The problem is not the amount of time needed but the quantity of resources you'd have to devote to it.
Now that I've finished boring people by talking about 'what I studied at college', time to go and rest my sore eyes.
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Yes, I can see that working on the scale of fields full of L. auratum you could get selection working pretty fast. I was thinking more of the sort of small-scale breeding that amateur growers and small nurserymen might go in for. Obviously a big international commercial crop like L. auratum would warrant that sort of scale of breeding work. Just the thought of walking through a field of auratum, though - must have been quite an experience!
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The inside of L.nepalense and L.speciosum is just starting off too.
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Wow! That sargentiae is fantastic, John! The nepalense's not half bad either.
You say the sargentiae is a selection, so I assume it's clonal. Do you know if it produces almost as good offspring from seed? It really is a superb strong lily.
Martin - We never seem to get seed on the nepalense or the sargentiae. The nepalense produces lots of offsets and the sargentiae both offsets and bulbils. I'll drop some bulbils of the latter in the post, there are hundreds of them and they come up everywhere and in every pot.
The nepalense I got from a nursery in Vancouver. They had just imported them the very day I was there and this one stood out from the rest - though Brian's looks pretty hot too. In iCal - an offset in the autumn to you.
johnw
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Wow! That sargentiae is fantastic, John! The nepalense's not half bad either.
You say the sargentiae is a selection, so I assume it's clonal. Do you know if it produces almost as good offspring from seed? It really is a superb strong lily.
Martin - We never seem to get seed on the nepalense or the sargentiae. The nepalense produces lots of offsets and the sargentiae both offsets and bulbils. I'll drop some bulbils of the latter in the post, there are hundreds of them and they come up everywhere and in every pot.
johnw
Many - not all - Lilium are self -sterile. You need to get another clone too. Sargentiae is a tall lily that often needs staking. This is probably the reason why it is not more widely available in spite of proliferating so easily. The Dutch growers want to sell short lilies with upright flowers because these are demanded by the cut flower market.
Practically all lilies would be frost hardy in US zone 7. Some from northern areas might get too little winter rest chilling but this is a mere speculation from my side.
Feldmaier C, McRae J (1982) 'Lilien' Publisher 'Ulmer' is a superior book and it is available English translation. 'Lilies' (batsford) Try to google 'Antiquarian booksellers' ABEbooks have 23 in prices from US$ 4 and upwards
Göte
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Thanks, John. I'd love to grow on some bulbils. I used to have sargentiae many years ago but then most commercially available bulbs here became virused (but still sold and passed around virused because of the prodigous bulbil production that the species is famous for).
I was wondering if, being such a tall, strong selection, it might be polyploid, either a fairly infertile triploid or a fertile tetraploid. Fertile tetraploids will often produce very similar offspring from seed if crossed with a more normal diploid specimen, because the tetraploid contributes twice as much genetic material as the diploid. So I was thinking it might be possible to produce a continuously virus-free strain from seed. The problem with sargentiae is that it seems to get virus very easily (but then what lily doesn't!) The ability to reproduce such a superb specimen from seed as well as bulbils would be a very useful fall-back if virus took hold. But of course if your specimen is virus free then that's not an immediate concern, although worth checking out. When the bulbils get to flowering size, I'll have to see what other sources I can find for sargentiae and try some crosses.
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I do not have any list here but I think that the RHS Lily Group seedlist often has seeds of sargentiae. I once flowered it from seed myself and it was just as big so I see no particular reason why it should polyploid.
Göte
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Gote, I just thought John's sargentiae might have been selected for its size and vigour. Nine feet tall sounds pretty big to me. I never got sargentiae to grow that big, but then I don't have ideal conditions on my dry south-facing limey hillside. If that's about standard size for sargentiae in ideal conditions then no, maybe not polyploid. The other thing that interested me was that John says it increases well by division and that it doesn't seem to have become virused although it sounds like it's been around for a while as a clone, which indicate some vigour, even if not due to polyploidy.
John, some more history about the clone would be interesting if you have it - how long ago it was selected, for example. Even if not polyploid, it's a very vigrous-sounding clone, healthy and a great looker, so good breeding material, which is useful in the event that the clone becomes virused.
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I admit that the nine feet did not register with me. My own was by far the tallest Lilium I have ever grown but it was far from nine feet.
Göte
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I usually get seed from my Lilium nepalense each year. Offsets too. I have a pot of seedlings and a couple of last season's offsets.
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John's sargentiae
John, some more history about the clone would be interesting if you have it - how long ago it was selected, for example. Even if not polyploid, it's a very vigrous-sounding clone, healthy and a great looker, so good breeding material, which is useful in the event that the clone becomes virused.
Martin et al - I got the first bulbil of this Danish selection in 1996. It was selected in Denmark by E. jespersen who has a keen eye for good plants, ex a collection by Jens Nielsen (NW Yunnan I presume). You forced me to go through all my correspondence from him as I had not recorded the date of receipt in the inventory. (And to note I have killed an entire collection of Pleiones from him over the years.) :-[ I assume the lily was selected for its good flower which, by the way, is showing little sign of its usual exterior pink striping and yellow interior this year due to the grey skies here for 7 weeks. Its height may be due to the constant daily moisture we have been getting. A shot from last year is attached.
As with the nepalense no seed is due to selfing.
johnw - sunny & 26c at 6:45 pm AST
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John, I could send you some nepalense which would give you a chance to get seed?
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Thanks, John. Sorry to have indirectly reminded you about the pleiones. If I start remembering the plants I've killed, I'll still be here this time next week. :-\
Sounds like the sargentiae has been around a long time as a clone without succumbing to virus. A very worthwhile selection.
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Anthony - Thanks for the nepalense offer. Maybe some pollen tout de suite would do the trick?
johnw
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Flowers are well over for this year. I'll check to see if there are still anthers.
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Anthony - Thanks for the nepalense offer. Maybe some pollen tout de suite would do the trick?
johnw
Anthiony - Looks like the nepalense flowers won't last but a day or so. The heat is causing them to show their age.
johnw - +24c & sunny
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Thanks, Rob. Interesting to know.
As someone else pointed out, there's a danger with virus-resistant plants in that they can infect non-resistant plants in a collection and because they show no symptoms, there are no warning signs of possible infection.
When mentioning breeding for virus resistance, I was really talking very theoretically. The practical obstacles, both in commerce and in private collections are huge, and the only practical answer right now is strict vigilance, rogueing and most importantly seed raising and seed sharing. I'm certainly not going to deliberately infect all my snowdrop seedlings with virus so I can find a few virus resistant survivors a few years down the line, just in case anyone starts to worry about accepting snowdrops from me in future. ;D
I think there is some clarification needed.
Virus resistant cultivars and species are those, with high resistance to virus, which usually don't get deceased when the virus is transfered by aphids. The most important factor is that they are not virus carriers at the same time. In case of mechanical damages, for example when cutting with non-desinfected instrument, even these can catch virus, as the plants gets a large dose of virus and not always can resist. I grow many Oriental lilies (which are known for their low virus resistance) next to my asiatic virus resistant lilies and have no problems with viruses.
I think we speak about those species and cultivars, which are not resistant to virus, but grow without any serious suffering when infected and don't show visible symptoms of virus (at least for amatures).
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I agree with Göte when he says "Especially I am sceptical to virus resistant clones since these can infect my plants without showing much of symptoms."
Resistant clones are exactly that - resistant. They can carry a viral load without obvious symptoms; if they carry it one has to accept that it may be transferred to something else. Better to test them by innoculating a susceptible bulb with some of their sap than to rely on them being clean. Better not to grow them too close to something you can't replace easily.
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Rob,
I'd rather say that you speak about cultivars which are not resistant to virus, but grow with virus without any suffering. Resistant cultivars don't get diseased and don't serve as reservoirs for viruses. I have been studying virus problems for over 15 years, making many tests and even infecting artificially my oriental lilies with sap from resistant Asiatic cultivars (including famous lilium tigrinum) ( I grow very old virus-free stock). So everything is clear, no danger.
If we take what you mean, in this case, all colchicums, frits and some other plants, which have very high virus resistance should be virus carriers.
I also made several tests with tulips. As you might know many tulips from kaufmanniana and fosteriana groups are very virus resistant. Several times I infected fosteriana tulip 'Canata' with the sap from virus-infected fringed tulip. But it never got deceased. At the same time, I did the opposite, the following year transferred the sap from 'Cantata', which was previously inoculated with virus to low resistant fringed variety and the fringed variety didn't catch virus. So it allows saying that resistant cultivars don't get deceased and don't carry a virus at the same time.
We just speak about the clones, cultivars and species, which are not virus resistant, but grow without any signs of suffering, when infected.
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1) Lilium leichtlinii var maximowiczii - but only 1 flower this year. :(
2) Asiatic hybrid 'Enchantment', supposedly, but lacking the spots.
3) LA hybrid, 'Easter Gold'
4) Asiatic hybrid 'Starchild'
5) Asiatic hybrid 'Lady Fair', a very small flowered lily.
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my lilium
http://mimiana.sunphoto.ro/0001_crini_2009
http://mimiana.sunphoto.ro/crini
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2) Asiatic hybrid 'Enchantment', supposedly, but lacking the spots.
It seems that this lily is sold (or swapped) today under the name 'Enchantment'
It is definitely not 'Enchantment'. 'Enchantment has more narrow tepals and is more red.
Of the mid-century hybrids I have grown, it looks more like 'Harmony' in shape and colour.
I do not recall the spottiness of Harmony and I cannot access my pictures from where I am now.
Considering that these hybrids came out half a century ago it is unlikely that many survive.
If someone still has 'Destiny' I would be interested in some kind of swap.
The voles killed my entire collection of asiatic hybrids many years ago.
Göte
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Boyed,
You are of course right. Unlike you, we are using the term 'Virus resistant' in a loose manner. I am afraid that most people do and thus when something is called virus resistant it can well be that it is not that strictly speaking but it just shows no symptoms. Considering the very deficient ethics among some of the bulb peddlers. I do not take the risk. If you sometime get a surplus of lancifolium bulbils I would be very grateful for a few of them. I am suspicious about my own stock.
Göte
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2) Asiatic hybrid 'Enchantment', supposedly, but lacking the spots.
Lilium "Enchantment' was one of the selected clones of asiatic hybrids created at the Oregon Bulb farms some fifty years ago. It became very popular in the trade. Obviously the commercial yield was high. For this reason its name remained in the minds of people and obviously other asiatic hybrids were mistakenly or maliciously given the name.
A check on Google shows a number of pictures of lilies named 'Enchantment'. Unfortunately most of them are misnamed. The best likeness is a Finnish postage stamp ! :o
I grew it in the sixties but did not like it very much so I do not have any good picture. This one is s scan of an old slide and I have been unable to get the colours quite right.
'Harmony' has the right colour and tepal shape but is far from unspotted.
I post a last picture of the distichum showing the very unusual habitus. At an early stage it looks like a Paris or something. For a long time there is nothing above the whorl then suddenly it starts growing again.
I also post a couple of pictures of Tsingtauense from a Korean collection. (Crug Farm) It is only half the size of my old ones (posted earlier) and the flowers are more upright. The assymetry is less pronounced.
Cheers
Göte
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I post a last picture of the distichum showing the very unusual habitus. At an early stage it looks like a Paris or something. For a long time there is nothing above the whorl then suddenly it starts growing again.
Gote, it must have been wonderful to watch the stems and flowers rising and opening from that unusual spread of leaves - how long did it take to full flower?
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I post a last picture of the distichum showing the very unusual habitus. At an early stage it looks like a Paris or something. For a long time there is nothing above the whorl then suddenly it starts growing again.
Gote, it must have been wonderful to watch the stems and flowers rising and opening from that unusual spread of leaves - how long did it take to full flower?
I do not recall but it stops with a fully developed whorl with a tiny bud in the middle for many days I think over a week - maybe even two. The first year I thught that a Daisva/Paris had been resurrected from the dead. I even labeled it Daisva :-[
Göte
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Viovaslui,
welcome to the forum. You have a fine collection of lilies. Are you a apiarist? I saw many bee houses in one of the garden picture.
It seems you don't have to worry of a good pollination. ;) :D
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Here's a nice pot of lilies at the front door.
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Gote, would you have any spare pollen from L. distichum, or have the anthers already lost all their pollen? I'd love to freeze some to use on my martagons next year.
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Sorry, I meant to say the same for tsingtauense pollen.
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Anthony,
indeed, a very nice pot of liliums.
Must give a strong sweet smell all around?
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Yes Armin, a very pleasant smell, similar to, but not as strong as, 'Star Gazer'.
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Gote, would you have any spare pollen from L. distichum, or have the anthers already lost all their pollen? I'd love to freeze some to use on my martagons next year.
I am reding this too late but I think they were over a couple of days ago. I will check tomorrow.
Göte
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Sorry, I meant to say the same for tsingtauense pollen.
That should be possible. - the small one not the big one.
Göte
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Martin
Yes the distichum is over the small tsingtauense not
Please explain what I shall do. Here - not as mail.
I will not read mail until Monday (and it may have some general interest)
Göte
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That would be great, Gote. Just pop as many stamens as you can spare into a small plastic bag and seal it. I'll brush the pollen out into a storage container at this end.
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Viovaslui,
welcome to the forum. You have a fine collection of lilies. Are you a apiarist? I saw many bee houses in one of the garden picture.
It seems you don't have to worry of a good pollination. ;) :D
Yes,i am professional beekeeper.
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This little beauty is now in flower. Lilium callosum I believe - received from Sergey Banketov in the Caucasus autumn 2006 ( I've also seen his seed list here) and geminated spring 2007.
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A Lilium maximowiczii that I grew from seed is now in flower it is taller than I am. I call it maximowiczii because this is the main form - it is the Japanese yellow one that is the variation and it was described earlier but unfortunately the publishers were slow. Thus lechtlinii var maximowiczii is according to rules but misleading.
Lilium concolor 'Aso form' is flowering for the first time - It looks like the ordinary one to me but the first year is often misleading.
Cheers
Göte
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Lilium primulinum in my garden?
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Hans,
that is wonderful. Does it set seed? Bold and subtle all at once, plus late blooming. Most of my hybrid lilies are over for this year. I already miss the perfume.
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Beautiful, Hans.
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Hans,
Is the lily relatively small with leaves like fargesii? I have something the same that I have taken a photo of and was going to ask for an ID but you got to it first :). Mine has narrow leaves and is about 50cm tall and is its first flowering from purchase about 5 years ago from chen yi. Would love to get a name. I felt mine was too small to be L. primulinum but maybe yours is bigger.
Susan
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I once got a lily under the name amoenum that was so like the illustration of primulinum in 'Lilies of the World' that it was uncanny. It was about 50 cm high. It was less yellow than the one Hans shows when fully open but quite as yellow when the bud started to unfold. Unfortunately I do not have a picture of the complete plant. It ided in the first winter presunmably killed by the cold.
It seems that we have a complex of lilies masquerading under the names primulinum, ochraceum, majoense, burmanicum and nepalense. Then there is the never properly described 'Rocks Lily'. Lumpers state they are all the same species (nepalense). Splitters stick to the various names. The best source of information available on the net is probably 'Flora of China'.
Cheers
Göte
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Hello,
Here are some pictures from the Lilium formosanum I grow, but not sure... look at the leaves.
Lilium anhuiense??
Rafa - Sorry I missed this. Your lily is simply spectacular and L. annhuiense is new to me!
johnw
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Some years ago I filled in the wrong number in a seed list and got seed called Lilium longiflorum by mistake. I do not hink longiflorum is hardy here but i put it in the ground it germinated and a couple survived the last three or four winters - including the -23°C this year.
I do not think that it is longiflorum - possibly formosanum and that should not survive either!
It is some 75cm high and has two flowers. Does anyone recognize it?
Göte
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I missed the most of my Liliums this year but here i one off my late ones.
Lilium speciosum Lady Alice.
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I didn't realize Lilium speciosum could be other than pink/red/white.
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Hello Anne Karin, lovely picture of Lady Alice and very well grown too. However it is not a speciosum but a henryi hybrid and classified as a division 6.If you wish to breed from it, and it is being used extensively now, you may put pollen from henryi, or any fertile aurelians or trumpets onto it.Good luck!
Regards Paul Rumkorf
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Thank you fore your information Paul. I do not understand how the speciosum name has crept into the name. :)
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You're welcome Anne.
I was going to post my lankongense into the arty f..ty section, but thought it may be more welcomed here.There was no attempt at anything creative, but I love the outcome.
I have 6 seedlings from a cross of duchartrei x lankongense that may flower this year and hope to backcross eachway.I have 3 bulbs only of one clone of duchartrei received from Otto F., this year, so can't produce any pure duchartrei species yet.
Regards Paul Rumkorf
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Paul,
what a wonderful shot! Mind you, one wouldn't want to wake in the night and find that hanging over your head.
:)
Jamie
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That is a wonderful pitcure of a wonderful Lilium.
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A very good shot Paul,
We should all use this angle now and then It shows the inner part of the tepals with the nectary furrow and the interesting black colouring that some Lilium exhibit there. This is the first time I see it in a lankongense.
Cheers
Göte
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One of the last Lilium. Does anybody know the name? Lilium gloriosoides?
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One of the last Lilium. Does anybody know the name? Lilium gloriosoides?
It seems so Hans. I hope you get seeds. Most of us have lost it in the winter due to fungal attack. Good Luck.
Göte
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That's a real stunner Hans. I hope it survives and thrives for you.
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Hans--your Lilium gloriosoides is just magnificent.It's the Holy Grail !! I have 10 seeds in a baggie that A friend shared with me --but no sign of germination after 3 months of warm treatment :'(. I hope you manage to get seed set and also freeze the rest of your pollen for other hybridizing.I'm not sure if gloriosoides is self fertile or not? Good luck !!
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Hans--your Lilium gloriosoides is just magnificent.It's the Holy Grail !! I have 10 seeds in a baggie that A friend shared with me --but no sign of germination after 3 months of warm treatment :'(. I hope you manage to get seed set and also freeze the rest of your pollen for other hybridizing.I'm not sure if gloriosoides is self fertile or not? Good luck !!
I am talking without knowledge about it whatsoever but since the "true glorisoides" is fairly frost hardy - yes even here in Sweden - it might need a few months at low temperatures after the warm time. If it has not rotted there is still hope.
Göte
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Hi everybody,
I should need some help in trying to identify one Lilium I purchased from a UK nursery in spring. But I'm so stupid I didn't take any photo...( thinking it wasn't worth ). The story is quite simple: I've ordered one lilium CERNUUM and in fact it wasn't. Here are some things I remember about the plant:
-2 stems approximately 120-140 m high
-leaves green, lanceolate, all along the stem
-10 to 15 flowers per stem, turk's cap, yellow, downward facing,dark spots on the petals
-small bulbs at the base of the stem, at ground level
-many dark brown bulbils on the upper leaf axils
Of course I found no Lilium on the nursery's list which could match this description. So I wonder what they provide me with...
I've browsed on the internet to see pics. I've found 3 candidates: L. "citronella", L. Lancifolium ssp flaviflorum, and L. Leichtlinii. But it seems that only L. Lancifolium produces bulbils on the leaf axils. Are there other Lilium which have this particularity?
I'll try to e-mail the nursery... but they have stopped sending plants out of the UK...
Any idea of what this Lilium might be?
Thanks a lot
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Hi everybody,
I should need some help in trying to identify one Lilium I purchased from a UK nursery in spring. But I'm so stupid I didn't take any photo...( thinking it wasn't worth ). The story is quite simple: I've ordered one lilium CERNUUM and in fact it wasn't. Here are some things I remember about the plant:
-2 stems approximately 120-140 m high
-leaves green, lanceolate, all along the stem
-10 to 15 flowers per stem, turk's cap, yellow, downward facing,dark spots on the petals
-small bulbs at the base of the stem, at ground level
-many dark brown bulbils on the upper leaf axils
Of course I found no Lilium on the nursery's list which could match this description. So I wonder what they provide me with...
I've browsed on the internet to see pics. I've found 3 candidates: L. "citronella", L. Lancifolium ssp flaviflorum, and L. Leichtlinii. But it seems that only L. Lancifolium produces bulbils on the leaf axils. Are there other Lilium which have this particularity?
I'll try to e-mail the nursery... but they have stopped sending plants out of the UK...
Any idea of what this Lilium might be?
Thanks a lot
This is most certainly Lilium lancifolium flaviflorum. - One of the few cases when a picture is not really necessary. Citronella has nearly linear leaves and no bulbils. Lechtlinii is closer but is also lacking the bulbils.
Cheers
Göte
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The "L. Leichtlinii" I bought a couple of years back does produce bulbils, photo below.
However I read a few weeks back that Leichtlinii does not have papillae unlike Lancifolium and the "Leichtlinii" below does have these raised bumps on the petals although a lot less than on Lancifolium.
Do you think my plant is Leichtlinii?
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Hi,
Thank you Göte. I'll consider my Lilium is Lancifolium flaviflorum but think of take a pic next year.
In fa
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I think it's sometimes uneasy to trust some nurseries or -maybe worse- garden centers. You can't be quite sure the plants you're purchasing are really what you ask for. And if you're not a specialist...there
are good or bad surprises at flowering time...But there's the SRGC forum...
Regards
Jean-Patrick
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I think it's sometimes uneasy to trust some nurseries or -maybe worse- garden centers. You can't be quite sure the plants you're purchasing are really what you ask for. And if you're not a specialist...there
are good or bad surprises at flowering time...But there's the SRGC forum...
Regards
Jean-Patrick
I once bougt a bulb in one of these bags with a picture on. The name on the bag was not the name of the piicture and what emerged next spring was neither of them.
Cheers
göte
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The "L. Leichtlinii" I bought a couple of years back does produce bulbils, photo below.
However I read a few weeks back that Leichtlinii does not have papillae unlike Lancifolium and the "Leichtlinii" below does have these raised bumps on the petals although a lot less than on Lancifolium.
Do you think my plant is Leichtlinii?
I do not think that this picture shows Lilium lechtlinii. I have never seen the true leichtlinii but I know var maximoviczii quite well. That one has a more narow infloresence. The leaves are more narrow, it is quite wolly on young leaves and buds and it has no bulbils. Flora of China specifically mentiones this. I think that waht you have is a commercial asiatic hybrid.
Cheers
Göte
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I think that waht you have is a commercial asiatic hybrid.
Thanks. That sounds plausible. It hasn't produced viable seed so there's not much that can be done. Last year bulbils, this year none. Flowered just before L. Lancifolium.
Googling, I found an RHS web page that says Lilium leichtlinii has bulbils, but I also found a couple of other web pages that say it does not.
The bulbs I bought seem to have gone from http://www.trecanna.com but whatever the name they were worthwhile.
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Lilium lechtlini is very rare and a misnomer.
The true species is Lilium maximoviczii = L pseudotigrinum that one grows in China Korea and Japan - perhaps also eastern Russia. Lechtlinii is a yellow sport that grows wild in a very limited location in Japan. Several of the oreange-red lilies like lancifolium, henryii, pumilum and concolor have yellow sports.
The yellow one appeared in a consignement of other bulbs and unfortunately the description and name was published before the description of the orange one.
Lechtlinii is supposed to be difficult and very rare also in cultivation but someone started selling some kind (-s?) of yellow asiatic hybrids under the name lechtlinii. Since lechlinii is very rare it would fetch a higher price so the temptation is obvious.
Cheers
Göte
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Göte - interesting comments. Perhaps one could play a game of looking at the pictures of Lilium leichtlinii on the web and deciding which are the real thing :)
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Göte - interesting comments. Perhaps one could play a game of looking at the pictures of Lilium leichtlinii on the web and deciding which are the real thing :)
Not only that one. >:( I think that http://www.the-genus-lilium.com/leichtlinii.htm is fairly reliable.
Cheers
Göte
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Thank you Göte for this very extensive link on Lilium.
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This year I had flowers from two lots of seeds. The first were "L. formosanum" and produced flowers with yellow pollen, no scent, about 18 inches high. The second were "L. formosanum Pricei", these had brown pollen, were strongly scented and slightly taller.
The web site "the genus lilium" says that formosanum has yellow pollen and philippinense is scented with brown pollen. I wonder if my Pricei are in fact philippinense? The only snag would be that they're not as tall as the specified 90cm for philippinense.
I'd be grateful for comments...
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Lilium formosanum priceii is very characteristic being so small. A side view shows it off better perhaps.
Göte
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The latest lily I grow is Lilium rosthornii. I never get any seed since the weather is getting too cold. Some info says that the difference from henryii lies in the seed pod. This is not very helpful if no pod is forming. It is quite easy to see the difference. Both have shorter leaves at the top of the stem and longer below but Rosthornii has longer and more narrow leaves. It has a shorter and more sturdy stem and is more frost hardy. On the whole I find it a better lily than Henryii. It is easy from seed if one gets any.
Cheers
Göte
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A lovely looking plant, Gote, the shape of the flower and the way it hangs is so refined - pity no seed pods - can you grow it true from bulbils or scales?
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A lovely looking plant, Gote, the shape of the flower and the way it hangs is so refined - pity no seed pods - can you grow it true from bulbils or scales?
This is a group of plants grown from the side bulbs that form in the ground around the stem bases. I am sure it can be scaled and seed might be available on the RHS lily group seed exchange. If you let me have your snail mail address i might (not sure) be able to find a small bulb for you.
Cheers
Göte
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Thanks for the offer - if and when will give you info as it snail mail in UK - Swiss snails just eat my plants leaving a PM ;D
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Lilium rosthornii was available from the SRGC SeedEx 2008/2009.
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By the way, if anyone wants to play the philippinense/formosanum game (see above), private message me your address and I'll send you a packet of seeds of both.
Sown now, and perhaps kept warm through Winter you'd probably have flowers by this time in 2010.
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The thing is - L. formosanum var. pricei as I have had it for years, is highly scented and has brown pollen, which, if we're to believe the lilium website, would make it L. philippinense var. pricei.
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Lilium rosthornii was available from the SRGC SeedEx 2008/2009.
I sowed some of that seed and a little hoop of green emerged on the weekend! Is this lilium epigeal?
cheers
fermi
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Is this lilium epigeal?
Yes.
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Lilium lechtlini is very rare and a misnomer.
The true species is Lilium maximoviczii = L pseudotigrinum that one grows in China Korea and Japan - perhaps also eastern Russia. Lechtlinii is a yellow sport that grows wild in a very limited location in Japan. Several of the oreange-red lilies like lancifolium, henryii, pumilum and concolor have yellow sports.
The yellow one appeared in a consignement of other bulbs and unfortunately the description and name was published before the description of the orange one.
Lechtlinii is supposed to be difficult and very rare also in cultivation but someone started selling some kind (-s?) of yellow asiatic hybrids under the name lechtlinii. Since lechlinii is very rare it would fetch a higher price so the temptation is obvious.
Cheers
Göte
Hi Gote,
Marcus Harvey assures me that he has the authentic L. leichtlinii originally grown from seed from Japan! You can see a pic on his website:http://www.hillviewrareplants.com/WinterCatalogues/Liliums.html (http://www.hillviewrareplants.com/WinterCatalogues/Liliums.html)
I'm not sure if there are still stock left but you can ask him.
cheers
fermi
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Hi Gote,
Marcus Harvey assures me that he has the authentic L. leichtlinii originally grown from seed from Japan! You can see a pic on his website:http://www.hillviewrareplants.com/WinterCatalogues/Liliums.html (http://www.hillviewrareplants.com/WinterCatalogues/Liliums.html)
I'm not sure if there are still stock left but you can ask him.
cheers
fermi
[/quote]
Thank you for the tip, He has a very good collection. However, I have some seedlings from a reliable seed source so at the moment, I hope for the best.
Cheers
Göte
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Lilium rosthornii was available from the SRGC SeedEx 2008/2009.
I sowed some of that seed and a little hoop of green emerged on the weekend! Is this lilium epigeal?
I also had some of the SRGC seed, it took around three months to germinate.
Darm Crook says:
"IMMEDIATE EPIGEAL GERMINATION
22 to 60 days. L. rosthornii seeds will germinate faster if exposed to light, however, during their first year the seeds that are not exposed to light once germinated will out grow those that were germinated by being exposed to light. L. rosthornii seeds need more moisture then the average immediate epigeal seed to germinate well.
"
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Thanks, David.
Only one "hoop" so far but I'll keep the pot watered over the next few months in case more germinate.
cheers
fermi
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Hans--your Lilium gloriosoides is just magnificent.It's the Holy Grail !! I have 10 seeds in a baggie that A friend shared with me --but no sign of germination after 3 months of warm treatment :'(. I hope you manage to get seed set and also freeze the rest of your pollen for other hybridizing.I'm not sure if gloriosoides is self fertile or not? Good luck !!
I am talking without knowledge about it whatsoever but since the "true glorisoides" is fairly frost hardy - yes even here in Sweden - it might need a few months at low temperatures after the warm time. If it has not rotted there is still hope.
Göte
Gote..I include some perlite in the mix going into the baggies (zip lock plastic sandwich bags) for my hypogeal seed, which I think works well.The only problem is when you only have a few seeds and in this case 10, and they had changed hands quite a few times, so no longer fresh and not stored all the time in the fridge, it's difficult to see if even one has germinated.The little bulb is camouflaged by the perlite.My baggies are usually in the lounge room (of course where else would you put them) :D and I do soak the seed also. Within 8 weeks I can see what is growing or not and then a further 4 weeks until they all spend 12 weeks in the fridge before planting out.This is my first time with gloriosoides, but I've noticed a lot of speciosums don't need any vernalization.I also don't know the ''best'' temperature for germination of gloriosoides.I have been told that Alexandrae germinates best at 5c.I don't have that species, nor have I had seed to try. I guess my lounge-room would be about 18c.My gloriosoides baggie has now had almost 4 months warm period and no sign of joy, so after I post this, it's going into the fridge for 3 months and then whether I see any sign of life or not, the lot will go into a pot and just in case, I'll have a word with St. Jude.
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According to flora of China, L gloriosoides is supposed to come from relatively warm parts of China. However the coldest province from which it is recorded has a January temperature fluctuating around zero C. The Chinese flora is still not all that well known (or at least published so it could be possible that it can be found in even colder areas.
Alexandrae comes as far as I remember from the Rikyo island which are considerably warmer in the winter.
The other two "speciosum-lilies" come from Taiwan and Japan. Both countries have very mild climate.
Gloriosoides is the mainland (=not maritime climate) lily of those mentioned and could well be the only one that requires vernalisation.
I sincerely wish you good luck with these seeds
Göte
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A question to the lily experts:
I ordered the following:
Lilium amoenum
Lilium lophopherum
Lilium regale
Later I found, that these are told to be not fully hardy outside. Can anybody confirm this or
do you have other experiences? If better grown in a pot, which growing medium: moist or dry,
good drainage needed....?
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Lilium lophopherum
Later I found, that these are told to be not fully hardy outside. Can anybody confirm this or
do you have other experiences? If better grown in a pot, which growing medium: moist or dry,
good drainage needed....?
Thomas
No expert but I think this one is quite hardy. It probably does not like high heat (30c+) combined with humidity for more than a day or two and especially at night. These days we grow it in a pot in a screened greenhouse as the lily beetle is a problem. We use clay pots for loph, oxy, nanum (nanum departed company!). Mix is 50% ground rotted pine /spruce bark & leafmould (50/50) 50% peat, this we mix with maybe 15-20% perlite, 5% sand and 10% coarse grit; + trace elements, superphosphate, pinch gypsum & lime, blood & bonemeal, seaweed meal, some slow release at the bottom - ie rich-humus-open mix-drainage. I think they like the extra air in unglazed clay pots. Careful watering in spring before roots fully developed. Run cold, 0-5c, and quite dry but not parched in winter when dormant.
Or plant out in a cool peat bed situation in half sun.
johnw
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Hi John, thanks for the tipps. For L. lophopherum I will try to plant it in a cool peat bed outside as sugested.
The others will be planted in a pot, but I will try one single plant of each outside, to see how they do ::)
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A question to the lily experts:
I ordered the following:
Lilium amoenum
Lilium lophopherum
Lilium regale
Later I found, that these are told to be not fully hardy outside. Can anybody confirm this or
do you have other experiences? If better grown in a pot, which growing medium: moist or dry,
good drainage needed....?
Regale should be fully hardy outdoors and need no special treatment.
Loppophorum is quite hardy but short-lived. A woodsy situation will suit it. A Peat bed might be just right.
Amoenum is also relatively hardy but seems to dislike too cold soil temperature. It has a tendency of surviving in the soil without starting into growth.
I would try all three outside in your place. Regale in a sunny position, the two others in a more shady.
Cheers
Göte
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Göte - I have heard it said that both Lilium regale and Lilium candidum should initially be planted very late in the year, December if possible, to prevent shoots appearing in the autumn. Is this true? I grow neither. I assumed maybe they are imported from areas where they are forced - ie Bermuda etc.
johnw
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I don't have L. amoenum but the others are quite hardy outdoors here but we don't have lower than about -5 or -6C.
John I could send some seeds of L. nanum later in the summer if you'd like. They flower from seed in less than 3 years.
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Thanks Göte and Lesley. Will try them all outside now after reading your experiences.
John perhaps you will see the result next May ;)
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Göte - I have heard it said that both Lilium regale and Lilium candidum should initially be planted very late in the year, December if possible, to prevent shoots appearing in the autumn. Is this true? I grow neither. I assumed maybe they are imported from areas where they are forced - ie Bermuda etc.
johnw
Lilium candidum is adapted to mediterrean climate. I.e. to rest in the dry hot summertime and to start into growth in the autumn when the rain starts. I am unable to grow it for that reason. My winter is too cold and the growth that came in the autumn dies. I doubt (but I do not know) that you can prevent this from happening by late planting. However if you can, this means that you must lift the plant again in the summer after flowering and keep it dry and probably warm as well.
Regale grows like any other lily i.e. it starts in the spring. To plant it very late would mean that it starts with less roots. Regale is a stem rooter so it would probably be OK but weakened.
If Regale starts in the autumn it must be that it has come from the south side of the equator or something or severely stressed.
Candidum is the only Lilium I know that starts in the fall.
Cheers
Göte
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John
Lilium candidum has been a traditional cottage garden plant here and most are virused. As Gote says they make a rosette of leaves about now which sits there through the winter and then comes up to flower late spring.
I have seen it in flower once in Central Greece growing on a cliff. A splendid sight.
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I've had Lilium candidum growing here for many years, perhaps surprisingly. It has adapted somehow to our short season, and blooms quite late - in August (as compared to June-July as stated in McRae's book). Also, I have not noticed any summer dormancy period here. (With it blooming so late, it would have to pack a lot of activity into a very short season, if it was to act as it does in its native climate!) I do get the winter rosette forming and surviving, despite the mixed-up life cycle, and the cold climate and usual lack of snow cover.
Strangely enough, I don't seem to have any photos of it in flower, but here is one of the overwintering rosette, from Dec. 4, 2008. (The ground is frozen, but as you can see, there is no snow cover.)
I had to move it late this summer, as I realized it was totally overhung and shaded out by other plants. The bulbs looked fine but the top growth had all died down, so it has be no winter rosette this winter. I hope I haven't killed the darn thing with my neglect... acckkk! Oh well...
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Lori,
That is really interesting. You might have got a strain that has adapted to a colder climate. It is surprising how often this happens. If you should get any seed from it sometime I would be very interested.
Cheers
Göte
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Most old gardens here have L.candidum. It bakes in summer ad puts up fresh rosettes in autumn- just now. They sometimes sit under the snow all winter with no damage. In a dry snowless winter there is some leaf damage. I think it is not a question of hardy strains, but more of what your conditions are like in winter. Too many people assume that plants from Greece never see snow, or experience cold weather.
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McRae, who ran his nursery in the Pacific NW, stresses that L. candidum needs good drainage, so I'd wonder too if growing success is controlled by conditions (i.e. intolerance of wet), rather than a lack of cold hardiness.
(That seems to be the usual explanation when a species can be wintered over successfully in colder areas, but not, apparently, in warmer zones; the warmer zones often turn out to be much wetter climates.)
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Too many people assume that plants from Greece never see snow, or experience cold weather.
There are some jolly good ski fields in Greece and LL. chalcedonicum and martagon were both growing near them.
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I have many times heard the explanation that it is wet that kills and I know that it is sometimes true. I have the same experience from Iris suaveolens and Dipcadi serotinus to name two.
It is, however, only true to a certain extent. I have heard people saying that all is well if the bulbs are kept dry. A later year they had to admit that some of their bulbs, that were kept dry under glass, died when the winter temperatures were colder than usual.
When it comes to Lilium candidum and other Mediterreans they get their water in the winter. They start growing in the fall because this is when the water is there. Of course they need to be well drained but they do neet the water.
The strain/provenience IS very important in many plants. Cardiocrinum giganteum from the Himalayas has never survived a single winter here. Cardiocrinum giganteum from China have never had more severe frost damage than some burning of early emerging leaves. Today many of the plants available in Sweden are imports from Holland. Some of these are considerably more sensitive to cold than strains of the same species that have been grown here for a long time. Unfortunately the old strains are very difficult to find. They are not in the marketplace. If I buy a Sempervivum arachnoideum here it is likely to die the first winter. The strain I inherited from my Grandfather has never been damaged by frost however exposed it grows.
I have never been able to grow Helleborus niger bought in the marketplace. At last I have got a plant of a strain that has been grown in an old cottage garden a very long time. It makes no difficulties at all.
If I buy a Lilium candidum here, it will be imported from a country with mild winters and it is pure luck if it is adapted to my climate. If I get a bulb collected wild from those places in South East Europe that are so cold, it is likely to have a better chanse of surviving. Even better would be a strain adapted to Canada.
I have noted that whoever I am are talking to: Taxes are to high and traffic to thick in their home country. It does not matter how many cars there are on the roads or wether the taxes are 20% or 55% ;D
In the same way, people who do have a winter tend to exaggerate the coldness. The frost may go down a meter here and the ice on the lake may be half a meter thick. Do you relly get such figures in Greece or Bulgaria?? Where Lilium candidum grows wild??
By the way. Around October 1st we had two consecutive nights when the temperature was down below - 3.5°C. In the late winter this year we had -23.5° at a time when the early Helleborus had big buds. My earliest original H orientalis died. So did my Arisaema candidissimum which was sitting well drained and no wetter than the year before
Cheers
Göte
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Gote,
Your Arisaema candidissimum wasn't up in late winter was it? Mine doesn't grow here until early summer..... it is the latest of the Arisaemas to shoot for me, well close to that anyway. Or are you meaning the dormant bulb died?
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That doesn't sound like a winter, Gote, that sounds like hell! I imagine winter in Canada will be like winter here- autumn stops and we get snow- usually before the soil freezes too deep. In the best winters the snow lasts 3 months until spring arrives. The mountains in Greece are pretty much the same.
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I imagine winter in Canada will be like winter here- autumn stops and we get snow- usually before the soil freezes too deep. In the best winters the snow lasts 3 months until spring arrives.
It takes about 11 and half hours to fly from St. John's, Newfoundland on the easternmost coast to the Victoria, British Columbia on the west coast of Canada. It's impossible to generalize about the winters of this vast country, especially where there are large bodies of unfrozen water closeby.
johnw.
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Are there any gardeners up in the tundra trying to grow Lilium candidum, I wonder?
I wasn't generalising. I was trying to be realisitic about the conditions in Lori's part of Canada, where she has the plant growing happily.
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Are there any gardeners up in the tundra trying to grow Lilium candidum, I wonder?
I too am surprised Lori is growing it so well in her climate. Plants and climates seem to defy logic at times, guess that's the fun of it.
For years I tried to grow Liquidambar styraciflua here with no success whatsever. We searched for and grew seeds from the northernmost stands. Those trees grew like weeds and then every winter - mild or cold - every branch would freeze back to the trunk, the top too . We tried in vain to explain its lack of hardiness - lack of summmer heat, too wet, too cold etc etc. A month ago we decided to go for lunch to an Italian restaurant close to the office, walking a half a block from the office someone in our party asked me "What's that big street tree over there with the winged branches and maple-like leaves?"
Attached a shot of a friend in his garden here in frigid Halifax where snow & cold come and go all winter long. I'd never have imagined his success 20 years ago. Mind you he spends a good deal of the summer shovelling manure onto the beasts. ;D
johnw
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Gote,
Your Arisaema candidissimum wasn't up in late winter was it? Mine doesn't grow here until early summer..... it is the latest of the Arisaemas to shoot for me, well close to that anyway. Or are you meaning the dormant bulb died?
No it was very late appearing above ground in mid June or so. The dormant corm died :(
Göte
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That doesn't sound like a winter, Gote, that sounds like hell! I imagine winter in Canada will be like winter here- autumn stops and we get snow- usually before the soil freezes too deep. In the best winters the snow lasts 3 months until spring arrives. The mountains in Greece are pretty much the same.
There are reasons why the hell of the Vikings was cold not hot.
However, When the sun rises before 3 in the morning and sets after 9 in the evening life is fine.
Only drawback is that it is meaningless to have any garden lights. ;D
Cheers
Göte
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Only drawback is that it is meaningless to have any garden lights. ;D
Cheers
Göte
Göte
Time to do a winter garden with lights, maybe you can return the timer. ;)
johnw
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Only drawback is that it is meaningless to have any garden lights. ;D
Cheers
Göte
Göte
Time to do a winter garden with lights, maybe you can return the timer. ;)
johnw
Well, the problem is actually that it is either not dark enough to make any effect or it is too cold to enjoy outside.
Of course I would like to build a winter garden. It would nice to have a head gardener with five minions as well. ;D
Cheers
Göte
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My lilium season has kicked off with this little gem of a martagon seedling, first flowering 4 years from seed.Similar to one of its parents, Pantrillis. :D
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That is really lovely Paul, congratulations, a great photo record too!
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Paul,
that is a wonderful flower. The pink tips finishing the clearly dotted tepals is striking. Is this sort of effect common? I've not seen it before.
jamie
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Beautiful, Paul. Nothing even remotely close to flower Lilium-wise here as yet. I only have a couple of martagons though, and they aren't going to flower this year anyway.... are martagons always the earliest for you?
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Attached a shot of a friend in his garden here in frigid Halifax where snow & cold come and go all winter long. I'd never have imagined his success 20 years ago. Mind you he spends a good deal of the summer shovelling manure onto the beasts. ;D
johnw
Is this the dwarf form John? ;D ;D ;D
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Yes Paul (V), a lovely seedling. Are you planning to propagate it vegetatively?
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Is this the dwarf form John? ;D ;D ;D
You mean Neil? He's 5ft 8". ;)
johnw
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Oh, so it was a shot of the friend, not of the Gunnera. :)
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Is this the dwarf form John? ;D ;D ;D
You mean Neil? He's 5ft 8". ;)
johnw
Ah, small but perfectly formed.... the pal, not the gunnera!
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But who can tell, behind that very large fig leaf?
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Howdy All,
This is a Lilium 'Leslie Woodriffe' shoot, showing so much promise. The actual shoot is massive, over an inch thick when it emerged from the ground. 8)
Please click on the pic for a larger version.
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Thanks for your comments on the martagon seedling Robin.
Jamie, I have not yet flowered enough of my own martagon seedlings to say how common that effect is, though I do find it attractive to include it as an aim in future crosses.Looking at the martagon CD, which is my main resource to see what others have produced, I'm more than happy with this young seedling.There are a few on the CD with a similar effect Jamie.
Leslie,from a breeders point of view, one of the promising traits that I like about this cultivar is that it flowered in 4 years, not only that, but it has a second stem that is carrying 7 blooms :). I like this colour with good strong spots, but would prefer it to reflex a little less.My martagon breeding programme, in its early stages still, puts a lot of emphasize on vigour and what will survive the Australian summer.You will remember the 46c to 48c of our last summer!Yes, I have already put its pollen about and will take a few scales also.I doubt if I'll ever be able to achieve 180cm stems.
Paul T, Martagon hansonii is usually the first to flower for me and this year is carrying 13 blooms--last year I think it had 8. Canadense is also in bloom, as is ruebellum.All these are grown in polystyrene boxes or, as with hansonii, plastic tub 30mm x 30mm deep.All my martagon breeding plants, still in their boxes, are stacked in a commercial size fridge for winter.I really need a cool room, or a move back to Tasmania. :-\
Your Leslie Woodriff is looking good--we are a few weeks ahead of you climate wise--I just measured my LW and it is 90cm tall.Do you grow Regal Star?
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Paul,
The LW in the few days since that pic was taken is now about 70cm tall. No, I don't have 'Regal Star', but have seen it I think. Has a more of a gold edge and a bit more recurving, or am I thinking of the wrong one? SO many wonderful Liliums about. I just love them, but don't grow nearly as many as I would like to. ;D I really have to work out how to grow martagons successfully as I adore them.
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Paul--the Regal Star as you describe it, is the one grown in Australia under that name.It is however, not in fact, Regal Star, as described and registered by the breeder, Dick Bazett.The Australian clone needs to be renamed and registered, as it is superb, grows like a weed and does very well at shows.I still grow it as Regal Star as that is what it's known as in Australia.I don't know what the judges will do at Australian shows when this clone is benched as Regal Star.In fairness, Dick Bazett only cleared the matter up through the NALS forum on Jan 25 2009 and also posted a picture of the correct Regal Star.(Dicks) Regal Star is somewhat similar to LW, where as the ''Australian'' Regal Star carries more red, is much brighter and has a yellow edge-the correct Regal Star has a white edge.
So, I was thinking you would probably like to grow the Australian clone, and if so, would you like to do some trading with your galanthus.I know you would also like to get your mits on Joy Hawley ;D
I'll have very good sized flowing bulbs to trade with you, after the flowering season, if you're interested, also a few spare speciosums.
Here is a picture of Joy Hawley--she has won quite a few Championships.
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Paul,
The colour of Joe Hawley is absolutely superb!!!! :o :o :o :o :o :o :o Is it really that fascinating russett colour? Very, very cool.
Now that you mention it, I do recall seeing discussions about our Regal Star in Aus on the Lilium-L. I remember the discussion about the edge colour being wrong etc. Of course I am interested in trading!! ;D
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My word Paul, Joy Hawley is just fabulous, the colour, the shape, presume it is also scented? Wow!!
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A glorious colour, ember-like. Must look out for her in NZ. :D
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When it comes to Lilium candidum and other Mediterreans they get their water in the winter. They start growing in the fall because this is when the water is there. Of course they need to be well drained but they do need the water.
Lilium candidum grows better for me than other lilies, mainly because it doesn't need water in the summer (I'm not very good at watering). My plants were grown from seed so hopefully they are not virused. The oddest thing has happened this year, however - most of my plants flowered at the normal time in late spring/early summer, but one plant has decided to flower in the autumn. It can't be because of anything that I did - basically I ignore them - but it is nice to have a lily flowering outdoors in October.
Ed
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Paul, you very happy! I congratulate!! Delightful martagon!
You double happy that have Pantrillis! :) A fine lily. It was open pollination or you know the second parent?
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Paul,
Your trumpet lily 'Joy Hawley' is fantastically atractive!!! I am highly impressed as trumpets and longiflorums are among my most favourite lilies.
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Paul, you very happy! I congratulate!! Delightful martagon!
You double happy that have Pantrillis! :) A fine lily. It was open pollination or you know the second parent?
Hi Elena --I can feel your enthusiasm for martagons and I share your love of them.I'm not aware of anyone in Australia that has good named hybrids of martagon, so most of us that have a few, have grown only hybrids and species from seed.My Pantrillis seedling came from seed bought from NALS and the donor said it was open pollinated.I wish I had Pantrillis----along with at least a dozen more that are on the Martagon CD.I have selfed one bloom only of my seedling to see if it's self fertile, the rest have been pollinated with other hybrids and hansonii.Another seedling is just about to open--its Sarcee x OP and looks as though it is a good solid red.I'm hand pollinating and protecting the stigmas with foil before any pollen is released, also collecting and freezing all spare pollen.I managed to get seed of daugava from the last NALS seed list and look forward to that flowering in 4 years time.You are spoiled for choice in Europe with so many martagon breeders.
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Joy Hawley is indeed a beautiful colour and it doesn't bleach in our stinking hot summers.As far as scent goes Robin, my head was already in a spin with her beauty, so I was already smitten.I think seed was on offer from the last NALS list with Joy Hawley crossed with an OT.
Zhirair--most of my backyard is taken up with orientals, speciosums, trumpets, aurelians and OT'S.Also of course some species.Amongst the OT'S are some very nice what is called ryirubes, involving henryi and rubellum.Here are a few pictures of some of my seedlings that I'll be using their pollen onto Joy Hawley this coming season.
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Paul, looking forward to seeing the results - L Melva is very unusual too with those incredible anthers 8)
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Paul,
'Flame' just leaps right out at your doesn't it!! :o Great colour and shape. The darker nectaries on Melva add a certain something too, don't they. While it isn't as filled in petal-wise as flame, it has interesting blends of colour. I wish I lived closer to come and see some of these in person. 8)
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A few Liliums flowering now.bye Ray
Lilium tsingtauense.JPG
Lilium concolor x.JPG
Lilium pumilum.JPG
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Does anybody have a picture of the lily fly Liriomyza urophorina. I only found descrptions no pictures.
Lily flies where until this year a constant source of frustration.
This year I tried scent oils (one drop of lavendula oil and one of Japanese mint oil in half a litre water)
I sprayed twice a week on the green buds from May to June. One of my less precious Asiatic lilies I spared to have a comparison.
It worked quite well I lost one third of the buds on my Asiatic lily. The rest was without any damage, apart from Miss Feya which was very late flowering in august September. This plant lost two third of its buds, beginning of august. I had stopped spraying end of June since here the lily flies should not fly in July.
When I was potting my lilies two days ago, I saw a little chrysalis (I wonder if this is the right word) it looked like a little reddish brown keg. This might have been it, but I had thoughtless already squashed it, driving on autopilot :P.
So does anybody know where to find a picture of this insect?
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Nobody?
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I have had no success so far in tracing a picture, Axel..... perhaps the fact these creatures are so small, only 2mm to 6 mm for all types of these flies, means that photos are not very easy?! :-\
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Hi Axel,
Is this helpful? http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.co.uk/lilybeetle_red.htm
By the way, if my German was 10% as good as your English I would be well pleased. ;D But, then I would have to stop being a "Eurosceptic" I suppose :o
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Hi Axel,
Is this helpful? http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.co.uk/lilybeetle_red.htm
A good try, David, but the Lily Beetle is Lilioceris lilii and Axel is looking for pix of the Lily Fly Liriomyza urophorina :-[
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Nevertheless thanks for your effort, all of you. :D
The chrysalis I killed was about 3 mm long. Maybe some other fly. ::)
This scent oil spraying was meant as a camouflage and it seemed to work. (It was no big invention just the stuff I had at home). I was so frustrated and didn't want to use poison. It seemed to work and if anybody has this problem too, he might give it a chance. I would like to hear about any results.
I wonder if it works on the lily beetle. I must admit they were rare this year. ??? I had a few (much less than in former years), but I have not kept record about what time they did appear. :-\
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Hi Axel,
Is this helpful? http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.co.uk/lilybeetle_red.htm
A good try, David, but the Lily Beetle is Lilioceris lilii and Axel is looking for pix of the Lily Fly Liriomyza urophorina :-[
Just goes to show, my English is no b****y good either and my eyesight is no better :(
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But at least you made an effort, David.... a good heart is always to be appreciated. :-*
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Maybe You should think about Europe again ;D ;D ;D ;D 8)
No...., thank you for your good will, I take it as it was given. :D
Maybe you don't have my problem in your splendid isolation?
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;) Axel, you will find that most EuroSceptics have no problem with Europe at all.... quite the reverse in most cases 8).... but there are a lot of people with scepticism about European Parliament politicians and bureaucrats!! :-\ :-X
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I would not restrict this to European 8) 8) 8)
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I would not restrict this to European 8) 8) 8)
Well, that is very true! :D ;D :'(
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Can anyone identify for me please, this delightful little lily which has come up as a seedling in a pot of Trillium seed which hasn't germinated so far. It was sown in June 07 so this has flowered in less than 2 1/2 years. It is about 18cms high but will probably grow taller when released from captivity. The flower size on the enlarged second pic is about right.
[attachthumb=1]
[attachthumb=2]
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Hello Lesley , just a very quick reapearence on the Forum - but as I have the same Lily in flower today , I think I am right in naming it L. maritinum .
Very slowly getting better ,
Otto.
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Great to see you well enough to be on the forums, Otto. Excellent!!
So what is the difference between Lilium maritimum and maritinum, or is one a spelling mistake. There are a lot of entries on google for both of them, but what references I can find do not mention a maritinum anywhere. Entries on google have both names as from california, so I am guessing that one of them is correct and one isn't? I'd never heard of maritinum until now, but it is obviously used by a lot of people. John Bryan's book "Bulbs" only lists maritimum. I have a single seedling from seed received as Lilium maritimum, from a Californian resident.
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It certainly is l maritimum. Strange that you get an endemic calliforninan amongst seed of an East coast Trillium.
It looks very cramped so pplease release it from captivity.
Congratulations. It is one I do not have - and will hardly be able to grow considering its home land climate.
Cheers
Göte
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;) Axel, you will find that most EuroSceptics have no problem with Europe at all.... quite the reverse in most cases 8).... but there are a lot of people with scepticism about European Parliament politicians and bureaucrats!! :-\ :-X
I recall someone saying (Delors??) "We do not invent these rules we only implement what you ask us to do."
The problem is that it is usually national bans and restrictinos that get implimented on the European level
Rarely the freedoms and permits.
A Swedish type of tobacco (snuff) is banned in the EU because one of those eurosceptic Englishmen lobbied for that it be banned.
This means that the rate of lung cancer in the rest of Europe is higher than what it would have been without the ban. >:(
Cheers
Göte
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A few Liliums flowering now.bye Ray
Lilium tsingtauense.JPG
Do you have any interesting proveience for the tsingtauense Ray?
This lily seems to be a little enigmatic.
I have the same under the same name but the flower does not fit the description in the books too well and I also have another, known to have come from Korea fairly recently.
That one has flowers more like a concolor and a peculiar dicothomus branching habit.
The "tsingtauense" we have in common seems to be classified as a hybrid at times.
I do not have the time to dig out a picture today but will try later.
Cheers
göte
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Hi Gote,I got this Lilium from Marcus Harvey this year and in his web site he says it is from Eastern China but where exactly he doesn't say.bye Ray
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Göte the ban on snuff is easy to understand. No one but the Swedes produce it and the UK has big tobacco companies so killing a possible competition is logical.
The bad bargaining from the Swedes about this and the triumph when the Swedes got the exception from this law shows to what extent I rate the Swedish diplomatic efforts and bargaining skills. :-[ ::)
I am truly a believer in a stronger Europe and enjoy the ease we can import plants from now an even bigger area. I see from the Nordic friends Noway what pains they have importing plants from the rest of Norway Europe.
Axel I also though the same as David that it was the Lily beetle but checked before answering. I did not find much on internet about this one and the one I found was in German WiKi pedia. I think Lilly beetles can be fought if started early enough to have less of the small ones ruining the Lilie's and less next years but if living with neighbour not fighting them it does not stop the invasion.
So far these have been fought manually with some success.
Great lily Lesley
Kind regards
Joakim
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Welcome back to the Forum Otto. I'm pleased to hear you're improving. Can I phone you on sunday, say about 10am your time?
My lily mystery is solved, thanks to you all. In April 2007 when I was in Oz, Marcus gave me some seed of L. maritimum and the pot of seedlings (none as big as this one yet) was next to the Trillium pot. A seed must have found its way next door, either by insect or perhaps me pulling a little weed and shaking off the soil with seed. It has settled in a new pot and obviously enjoyed the change of scene.
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Having done a quick Google, I will expect L. maritimum to grow much taller than my present baby. That's fine. I recall reading, I think in an Archibald seedlist, that L. maritimum refuses to grow except within sight or sound of the Pacific ocean and so most people would not find it easy. Maybe it doesn't mind whether it's the east Pacific or the south or west, because I garden within 3kms as the seagull flies, and we certainly hear the ocean on stormy nights. :)
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Hi Joakim thank you for your answer. My mixture might repel the beetle too. I am not sure but will keep record this time. My idea was that the vermin will smell out its victims. So why not camouflage my lilies as lavenders or peppermint ;D
Next year I will start early with spraying and finish some when in September. I will report about it. ::)
This year I had only once to kill some beetle larvae
Beautiful lily baby Lesley
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Having done a quick Google, I will expect L. maritimum to grow much taller than my present baby. That's fine. I recall reading, I think in an Archibald seedlist, that L. maritimum refuses to grow except within sight or sound of the Pacific ocean and so most people would not find it easy. Maybe it doesn't mind whether it's the east Pacific or the south or west, because I garden within 3kms as the seagull flies, and we certainly hear the ocean on stormy nights. :)
Lesley,
Don't write that too loud please.... I don't want my one seedling to hear/read it. I'm 200km from the ocean and about 600m in altitude, so what the seedling doesn't know won't hurt it. ;D Of course you realise that now that this has all been said it will drop dead within the next week. ::)
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Some of my Lilium seedlings flower now.A mix of Asiatic and OT.bye Ray
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Don't write that too loud please.... I don't want my one seedling to hear/read it. I'm 200km from the ocean and about 600m in altitude, so what the seedling doesn't know won't hurt it. ;D Of course you realise that now that this has all been said it will drop dead within the next week. ::)
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Paul!!!! you made my day so good!!!!!!!!!!!
I say same things sometimes ;D Let see your unstudied lilies :-*
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Ray,
That first one is a cracker. I love that dark centre in contrast with the outside. Very, very nice.
Erika (I think I have the right name?),
I'm pleased to report that the maritimum is still alive, despite my forecasting it's instant demise after we discussed it's growing requirements! ;D ;D
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good news!!!!
like my beauty trumpet - she is not doing well since my neighbour told her, she claims acid soil ??? previously she was very satisfied plant
I wanted to sow you some pics, but the bucket is not working so.................
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Erika,
You do know that you can upload pictures directly to here, don't you? There is no need to use another hosting site.
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(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i76/arykana/aloha.jpg)
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i76/arykana/IMG_7560.jpg)
no, i did not know it ::)
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It's much easier than having to host them elsewhere. I can't find the detailed instructions at the moment, but I've asked Maggi if she can send me a pointer to the topic that we can send to you or post here.
Basically, when you're posting a reply, down to the left of the bottom of the box you're typing in there is an "Additional Options....", which when you click on it opens up an area that you can add pictures. You can add up to 10 pictures to the message, each of which can be up to 500K in size for each picture. You click on 'Browse' to choose the file you want to upload, and if there are more you want to upload you click on 'More Attachments' to the right of the Browse button.
I doubt that is enough information, but you can have an experiment while awaiting the link from Our Lady and Mistress (feminine version of Our Lord and Master ;)) Maggi. 8)
Uploading them here means that if the external host is down or running slow then everything can be viewed fine here. I find that a lot of the external pics can run slow at times and take a while to show, so I have only ever posted pics uploaded directly to here, never from anywhere else. 8)
I hope this is of some vague help, but hopefully a link to the instructions will be much more instructive. ;D ;D
And I love that double pinky apricot Lilium. Beautiful!
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Erika,
I've just PMed you a couple of links with lots of information. Our Lady and Mistress came through in record time as usual. ;D ;D
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Erika,
I'm emailing you too!
Maggi
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Erika, my email to you failed, so have sent Personal message but some directions may not show in that format!
Contact me if you need help!
Maggi
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Some great seedlings there Ray. They'll be very exciting when they clump up. :D
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Hi Lesley.thanks for your comments,thought I would have seen some different ones here by now from our Lilium growers in the south Rob and Paul R,soon I hope.bye Ray
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Ray,
Photo's are difficult for me this year; maybe next season. Yours are lovely though. I especially liked the Tango - Sims' seed?
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Hi Rob,good to hear from you,pity we wont be seeing any pics from you as it is good to see what other people are growing.The seed came from either Sims or Francom,not very good at keeping records.bye Ray
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Ray,
your Asiatics with the dark splashes in the centre are quite amazing!
Do you know the breeding?
cheers
fermi
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Hi Fermi,as I said my record keeping is not the best,but will do some homework and see what I can find.bye Ray
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Hi Fermi,the breeding of the Asiatics is either of the following
Brauner Bar x Dot.com or Miss Alice x Dot.com.
Dot.com looks like pic 0536.
Hi Rob all these seedlings have come from Sims seed.
bye Ray
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The dark centred one is spectacular, as I mentioned when you posted it. Such an unusual colour arrangement. A big congratulations for that one, and the others too. 8)
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Hi Rob all these seedlings have come from Sims seed.
Thought so.
Really pays with these to raise as many seedlings as possible; the Tango pattern may be dominant, but the parents aren't homozygous for it - lots of throw-outs.
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Hi Rob,have to say that I am not a breeder of lilies nor do I intend to be,will leave that up to people with a lot more knowledge than me.I will just grow their seed.
Had to google homozygous to see what the word meant and still none the wiser.
When you say Tango pattern are you referring to the dark pattern in the middle of the flower.bye Ray
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Some more seedlings bye Ray
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[quoteWhen you say Tango pattern are you referring to the dark pattern in the middle of the flower][/quote]
Spreckle or Tango, yes. Some of the flowers you get are patterned like this, but others, as I'm sure you've noticed, are merely spotted - useless for breeding for this trait.
Can I ask where the first in the latest series of pictures comes from? That speciosum-type looks particularly nice.
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Hi Rob ,thanks for that info,the first pic in the post is a seedling from Angel Choir x Dot.com,the second one which I think you are referring to, I will have to get back to you as I don't have the info here.bye Ray
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Very nice, Ray. I rather like the first one, and the second and third ones too. The delicacy in the colour of the third one (the pink OT) is beautiful, but the dark throat in the second is excellent. As Rob said, the first one with the speciosum look to it is fascinating.
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These are the first flowers on "Silk Road" which I got from Coal Creek Bulb Farm this year.
[attachthumb=1][attachthumb=2]
Cheers
fermi
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Fermi,
It is a cracker, isn't it? Mine are still a few days away, although the heat this week will probably hurry them along a bit. Great to see it out for you already. 8)
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Hi Fermi,your Silk Road looks good ,mine is a week or more away from flowering.
Here is a few more seedlings flowering.No Name is a Lilium I would like a name for
if possible,pics are of the flower and the foliage.bye Ray
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'Silk Road' is certainly a stunner.
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Merry Christmas to one and all and happy holidays to the rest of the mob. :)
Ray, I like the offspring from Dotcom that you've raised and hope you breed the "speckles" together.
Here is a seedling, first time flowering, either a 3N or 4N, showing excellent colour and good form.
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My results from the asiatic cross, Angels Choir x Dotcom, were less encouraging than those posted above.One looks like a blow in, but the other two showing the desired speckle pattern will be used with ABA 1 (shown in next lot of pics).I don't breed many asiatics, but am interested in producing a few down-facing tangos.
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ABA 1 and ABA2 are siblings, the former is a very strong down-facing plant carring about 7 blooms.I will be using it with all my tango types. ABA 2 didn't appear last year--I thought it was a gonna, but very happy to see it this year, even thou it's looking a tad poorly.
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Very nice, Paul. I love that first one you posted.... wonderful "desert" colours to it, a bit like the trumpet a while back that we were oohing and aahing over. ;D
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My results from the asiatic cross, Angels Choir x Dotcom, were less encouraging than those posted above
That variability is problem with the red chevron OTs that Ray showed earlier too. You need more than one seed packet to get a good idea of the range that the cross can exhibit.
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Hi Paul R,my pic 0133 in reply 467 is also from a Angels Choir x Dotcom cross.
also like first pic in your asiatics.The only breeding going on here will be done by the bees,if I get some seed from the speckle's,will sow and see what I get.Most of my speckle's that flowered last year had stem bulbils so i will have plenty of clones.
bye Ray
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I've been trying to find a source of Lilium martagon var. daugava... there wouldn't be any amongst You guys who have got some extra seeds of this lily? :O))
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You might try with this adress http://www.remarc.com/craig/images/2008ruksans.pdf
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Some more Liliums flowering now.byeRay
Lilium Serendipty
Lilium Albany
Lilium Royal Crown
Lilium Bright Star
Lilium Lesley Woodriff
Lilium seedling
Lilium lechtlinii
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Beautiful, Ray. Your seedling is particularly attractive. What a deep green throat, and the anthers look to be a good, deep red-brown. Very harmonius.
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Very nice, Ray.
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Ray --your lilium henryi seedling with the green throat is a stunner, congratulations with that, it really is a cool beauty.I also like your leichtlini.Mine turned out to be a hybrid, as the 3 seedlings to flower from it this year are all non-leichtlinii. I have ordered some leichtlinii seed from the EU lilium group that should arrive shortly.There is a chance that a bee may have had a hand in the pollinating, but I want to be sure that I have the 100% specie.
Here are the 3 sdls just as a matter of interest.
regards Paul R
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I've been trying to find a source of Lilium martagon var. daugava... there wouldn't be any amongst You guys who have got some extra seeds of this lily? :O))
G'day 4moreaction--NALS had martagon daugava listed last year--I was lucky enough to get a packet, 14 are growing well, so, if you don't have any luck, see me in 3 years. ;D
Regards Paul R
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Hi Paul R,I don"t breed Liliums,the henryi seedling came from someone you probably know pretty well Rod Barrow.bye Ray
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Thanks, Paul R ... these photos with a human hand included are a great help to relate the (large 8) ) scale of these blooms.
Readers: there is a 2010 lily page open too: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4829.msg130792#msg130792
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I've been trying to find a source of Lilium martagon var. daugava... there wouldn't be any amongst You guys who have got some extra seeds of this lily? :O))
G'day 4moreaction--NALS had martagon daugava listed last year--I was lucky enough to get a packet, 14 are growing well, so, if you don't have any luck, see me in 3 years. ;D
Regards Paul R
LOL... You can then consider Yourself rather lucky... since it seems like it is very difficult to get seeds of this var. ... I must say tha I envy You rather much... well I just have to bid my time and hope to get this beauty some how.... :O))