Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Plant Identification => Plant Identification Questions and Answers => Topic started by: arisaema on May 31, 2009, 09:04:10 AM
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What NW Yunnanese species could this be? I have a hunch, but it would be nice with confirmation :)
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Not a species we grow, Arisaema...... neat growth and fantastic flowers, I like it.
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It is quite lovely, the foliage stays bronzed all season, in spring it's like chocolate. Two clones of it are flowering, so I'm hoping for seeds.
To add to my confusion a second Chinese Smilacina has also just started flowering, and I managed to key them both out as the same species ??? Probably time to PM Aaron...
The rachis on both are pubescent, I didn't risk digging to measure the rhizomes, but on the latter at least it should be thicker than 0.7cm.
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Second one is attractive too. Brown and green flowers on first are major plus point for me..... I will be interested to discover what the ID may be for both.
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Hello Bjornar,
The first one I would call S. forrestii/S. wardii. The latter is not recognized in the current treatments, but I like Hara's 1987 paper better than the FOC treatment.
The second I really have no clue. Its obviously not the same as the first, but the FOC key leaves no other option unless the leaves are petiolate and not cordate. The flowers are also not borne singly as in the first.
If you could provide stigma (3- vs un-lobed), ovary style lengths, connation of the tepals, etc... I'll be able to use Hara's detailed key for them both then.
All the best,
Aaron
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Thanks, Aaron! Even tho the keys for both Smilacina and Polygonatum in the FoC are doable for a layman, it seems some plants just don't want to fit.
What I should have stated, and what I now realize is impossible to tell from the pictures, is that the leaves on the bronzed species aren't cordate, they just looks so because of the undulate margins. I keyed it as S. purpurea, which seemed a reasonable match except for the colour - unless something was lost in translation (or drying?) you'd have to be colour blind to call it "white, tinged purplish"...
The measurements for the bronze species are as follows:
Stigma 3-lobed.
Tepals 6mm (from tip to pedicel), fused for the last 2mm.
Ovary 2mm.
Style 1mm.
Filaments 1mm.
Pedicel 4mm - and there's a 1mm, lanceolate "bract" between it and the rachis.
The measurements for the green species:
Stigma 3-lobed.
Tepals 6mm, fused for 1mm.
Ovary + style a total of around 1mm, the style is minute, maybe 0.1mm long.
Filaments 1mm.
Pedicel 2mm.
I was thinking the green one could be an immature form of S. tatsienensis as that species seems both fairly widespread and fairly variable, but the rachis is clearly (if minutely) pubescent. It does however have the same "longtitudal lines" on the rachis as my other S. t. (which has a 1mm long style).
Again thanks for taking the time to help me, I've been hoping to propagate some of these in the future, and there's already too many misidentified ones being passed around.
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Wow! Chocolate coloured Smilacina? :o Double and Triple Wow!! :o :o
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Some smilacinas are fragrant so the vital question is..... does this one SMELL of chocolate? :)
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Bjornar,
I agree on your identifications when I follow Hara. He says of S. purpurea flowers, "dark purple outside, often with a greenish midrib, often greenish inside." So, his account differs slightly of the typical form, but he also recognizes forma abliflora and f. oligophylla. He says the bracts should be ovate or deltoid though, fused ca. .5 mm, and only to 5mm long, rarely 6. That is where synonyms come into it. Purpurea has 4 in Hara and FOC. The protologue of zhongdianensis seems distinct enough.
Of S. tatsiensis, Hara says "stem longitudinally ridged, glabrous or paillose-scabrous....rachis ridged, glabrous or minutely papillose, scabrous on ridges. Bracts small, ovate or narrow-ovate"
And all the measurements fit perfect within Hara's treatment, but he says it is functionally unisexual.
And thus my problems with the Flora of China, but it is still a great work for most people. When I key Polygonatum I use FOC first, Jeffrey's second key second, then Leveille's old key in French that has all the verticillate species separate, an eastern Russian key that has several verticillate species, Tamura's 2008 key to the Japanese species, and then to double check my work I use my comprehensive key that is still being adjusted.
Yes, do either have a fragrance? Purpurea should, my tatsiensis never did (died mysteriously one year). Henryi and forrestii are both really nicely fragrant and so is what I keyed to a white form of purpurea last year.
Aaron
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Aaron (et al.);
Thanks again for all your help and for the confirmation! :) I really need to get a copy of Hara's paper.
Bronze S. purpurea may be ever so slighly scented of watermelon, not chocolate unfortunately. The S. tatsiensis above grows next to a Phlox divaricata, but my other S. t. has a faint, sweet scent - think Primula parryi diluted till it's no longer cloying. The third, tallest form has been mauled by Elateridae, so it's not going to flower this season :P
White S. purpurea (http://planteliste.net/slides/smilacina_purpurea.html) smells wonderful and strong, but it won't flower here for at least three weeks - and it is remarkably different from the bronzed forms!
A third form of S. purpurea opened today, this one is also from around Nujiang, and is faintly perfumed (like white S. p.). Also below S. tatsienensis #2 (also NW Yunnan). There's still 4 unknowns left, but unfortunately none look like they are going to flower this season.
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Where might these be coming from with locality information? I am jealous. All are very beautiful plants.
I'll send a PDF of Hara's paper later in the day.
I'll think P. parryi, but I have never smelled it!
Aaron
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I'll PM you the source, but I'm afraid it's gone. You're more than welcome to seeds if I get any, I've fiddled around with the paintbrush.
The foliage scent of Primula parryi can best be described as a mix of stocks (Matthiola incana) and well, diarrhea :-X