Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => Flowers and Foliage Now => Topic started by: fermi de Sousa on May 07, 2009, 06:27:41 AM
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Heavens! A week into the month and no new topic for the South!
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Last month I posted a pic of what I presumed was Nerine "Ariel", this is a seedling I raised from "Ariel" many years ago but have only just got to flower, it has thinner petals and (I think) is better suited to the rock garden than the "improved" hybrids.
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cheers
fermi
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Paul posted a pic of this Nothoscordum hirtellum (edited after advice from Alberto C) which was previously known as Ipheion hirtellum,
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When I bought it I was asked if I liked garlic - because even a small pot of it will fill your car with that scent on a mild to warm autumn day! - no need to even bruise a leaf either!
cheers
fermi
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Your rock garden might like some of my smaller, finer stemmed Nerines Fermi. Don't know how I could get them to you though. Every shade imaginable from a pure white through various pinks, apricots and oranges, scarlets, corals, crimson etc. some of the pinks have that lavender shading through them too. what my original (late) donor caler "Art" colours.
Talking of which, you may have read that a couple of very rich Americans who rather like New Zealand, are donating to the Auckland Art Gallery, a collection of paintings - 15 I think - by Picasso, Mondrian, Matisse and others. Total value around $M115 American. We saw them last night on the box. Enough to make shivers up and down the spine, though my most favourite painting is Chagall's "Green Violinist."
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Talking of which, you may have read that a couple of very rich Americans who rather like New Zealand, are donating to the Auckland Art Gallery, a collection of paintings - 15 I think - by Picasso, Mondrian, Matisse and others. Total value around $115 American. We saw them last night on the box. Enough to make shivers up and down the spine, though my most favourite painting is Chagall's "Green Violinist."
Good grief, I'd donate $500 to the gallery if they'd throw in the paintings.
My favourite is Mrs. Matisse, the one with the green nose. Saw her in Cologne once.
johnw
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Now Lesley we want some photos of those colour forms of your Nerines.
johnw
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I'm really sorry John, I have none at all and they are just about finished now. I took a lot last year but the subtle differences among many were quite lost with digital pictures. I'll try again next year though. In general, the stems are between 20 and 40 cms tall and thin but the heads of flowers are small in proportion so that they look quite in keeping. They are a race bred by an old friend who died some years ago now and her stock was sent to a well-known Auckland grower and breeder of Nerines. A few years ago I asked him what was he doing with them and he replied that he "threw the lot out. Too small for me." Those of us who knew the original collection were utterly flabbergasted and outraged because they could so easily have been returned south to the people interested in smaller plants. I have about 20 different shades and a few others have some as well, including some different from mine.
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Lesley,
Do they set seed for you? I find that the nerine hybrids so rarely do for me, yet the species do easily. I too would like to see pics at some point as they sound VERY interesting. I like the smaller nerines, particularly the species but different coloured hybrids of a smaller stature sound brilliant.
By the way, I am assuming that you missed a million in the sentence about the art collection donation? I would be happy to pay $115 for 15 painting by the great masters, but I am doubting they'd take me up on the offer? ;D
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Sorry about the lack of an M. I've modified that post. Certainly $115 or even 500 would be a good deal. ;D
I've had what I thought would be seed but this has always shrivelled and yellowed before it matures properly but this last year I cut the stems as the flowers were dying off and kept them in a jar of water in the kitchen, adding stems every day ot two. These DID mature their seeds and were duly sown and have come though. It may just be that having flowered, I wasn't worried about watering much but the kitchen stems had plenty for seed formation. Nerines have this nice habit of the seeds suddenly being small bulbs without any action being taken on the grower's part. They seem to change especially if kept in a paper bag for a couple of weeks. And after all, June Keeley's original collection with its many colours, was all developed from seed and selecting.
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By the sound of it if the main collection is lost you need to produce and sow as many seed as possible just to find out what other genetics are in there colour-wise. They sound so nice.
Yes, it is handy how the Nerines can produce bulbs if left in a packet accidentally. I discovered Nerine undulata that had been sitting in a packet for 12 months (yes, a full year) and the tiny bulbs they had produced mostly still grew. Absolutely amazing. 8)
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That reminds me that I still have some seeds to send you, Lesley!
Well, white fever strikes again at Redesdale with the re-emergence of Galanthus peshmenii, grown from seed from Rannweig Wallis in 1998 - after I saw her Farrar Medal winning entry of it the previous year.
Here it is last Thursday,
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and a couple of days later,
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Oxalis flava in its mauve-pink incarnation is looking lovely despite the cobwebs the redbacks spin over it!
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One of Peter Genat's hybrid nerines is also putting a bit of colour into the garden,
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cheers
fermi
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Hi Fermi:
Sorry I owe you a couple of responses but in a haste, that one with the "tall" stem is Nothoscordum hirtellum (at times Ipheion hirtellum). Sorry to report that most hills in which it grew in swarms have been plowed over for soybean. It may become a rare species in years to come.
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Howdy All,
Here's some recent flowerings and autumn colour in my garden. The include Haemanthus albiflos, Assorted Maples etc, a Kniphofia of unknown name, the first hoop petticoat daff (Narcissus 'Fyno' which has opened in the last couple of days, and the first of the "Autumn Colour" strain of seedlings of tazetta daffs (this one started opening the second last week of April)....
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And some Nerines...... The first shots are of the Nerine pudica that I have been growing for years. I had always thought that this species was more trumpet shaped, but I recall seeing a pic recently of this species that showed it opening out normally like a Nerine? Does this mean that mine is a strange clone that doesn't open properly? I love it, but it would be interesting to know whether it was supposed to look like this or not.
Also attached are a couple of pics of some seedlings that are flowering for the first time. These are from my friend Lyn here in Canberra and were seed from her N. pudica (the same as mine, from the same source, and opens the same way for her I think). I wasn't expecting hybrids, but I rather like them. The one on the left looks much like the colour of the species we grow, but the flower is larger, and the pink one is very pretty. I'm quite pleased that they were hybrids, in that they are both different to the parent and are both very nice Nerines in their own right. I am wondering now though whether the parent is a defective clone or not?
Any feedback would be appreciated.
I will also load a pic or two over in the Galanthus section, in case anyone is interested.
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Hi Paul,
Love your autumn color daffodils - superb pic!
Gerd
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Oops, forgot something..... Dahlia imperialis opened last week. It is approximately 6m tall with more flowers opening now. The one in the pic was still opening, but it was in sun and I wasn't sure when I'd get a good shot again. It has been murky weather since then (not much rain, but heavy cloud) so I am glad I got the pic at the time. Tomorrow should be clearer so hopefully I can get a pic of a fully open flower tomorrow. No frost has killed the flowers off as yet, but could be at any time.
Thanks Gerd. Glad you're enjoying the pics. The "Autumn Colour Strain" were from seed from America where someone was crossing all their earliest flowering tazettas etc. I have about 7 different variants in colouration that I know of. The one I have in the picture is always the first to open (still is the only one open as yet) and it's flowers open lemon and fade to white, giving a multi-coloured effect to the flowerhead. I love it!! 8)
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Paul , the autumn colour in Canberra is just as brilliant as here in the Dandenongs -
during our extreme hot and dry summer I expected only shrivelled leaves now ,but gloriouscolours around us -only posting 2 and and the native Fringe Lily-Thysanotus
multiflorus which flowered in summer
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forgot these 2 Acer palmatums
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Otto,
Lovely! The Pistachia chinensis have been particularly colourful this year, but I never got a chance to photograph them and the winds we've had the last couple of days have ruined the display. I have a small one in my garden, so hopefully in the future I'll have a nicely colourful display from it too. 8) The autumn colours are a real feature of Canberra in autumn, although some years it is a bit too dry, or it goes from warm to frost too quickly and we don't get a great display. This year we've had some rain a couple of weeks ago, and a lot of nights in the low 1 or 2 degrees so it has been almost perfect for colour production. ;D
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Not to everyones taste or interest , but I was invited to the 50th. Anniversary Exhibition of
Melbourne Chapter of Ikebana International , the first chapter outside of Japan in the
Southern Hemisphere .
Here are 5 of my favourites of the Sogetsu School:
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Paul, Otto your pictures of autumn color are impressive. Must be beautiful at your places this time of year,
when it's not so hot anymore.
Otto, is Thysanotus a Iridaceae? It's a real stunner.
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Otto - the items from Ikebana International are fascinating. I think 012 is both clever & beautiful.
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What fantastic exhibits from the Sogetsu School - the Japanese are in a class of their own with such artistic simplicity and ingenuity. Thanks so much for showing us your favourites Otto - no 11 is like a sculpture.
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The white Lapageria stands out well among the red autumn colour too. :)
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Otto - the items from Ikebana International are fascinating. I think 012 is both clever & beautiful.
Gerry , glad you enjoyed the Ikebana pictures - my favourite is also 012- we seem to be on the same wavelength .
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Paul, Otto your pictures of autumn color are impressive. Must be beautiful at your places this time of year,
when it's not so hot anymore.
Otto, is Thysanotus a Iridaceae? It's a real stunner.
Luit , yes autumn here in the hills just outside Melbourne is very colourful but at the same time
serene- my favourite season.
Thysanotus ,as the common name suggests "Fringe Lily" was in the "old" Liliaceae ,but when the Taxonomists made work for themselves some 20 years ago and split Liliaceae into some 25 or so seperate families it now lives in Laxmanniaceae , before that it was for a short time in
Asphodeliaceae ,but it may still change its colours yet.
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Oxalis flava in its mauve-pink incarnation is looking lovely despite the cobwebs the redbacks spin over it!
cheers
fermi
I love the Oxalis picture Fermi ! Very delicate !!
Paul and Otto, the autumn colour pix are truly wonderful !!!
Thanks for sharing !
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Otto - the items from Ikebana International are fascinating. I think 012 is both clever & beautiful.
Gerry , glad you enjoyed the Ikebana pictures - my favourite is also 012- we seem to be on the same wavelength .
That 012 is stunning.... ikebana and origami in one.... what could be more appropriate ?
Was it a competition as well as an exhibition, Otto?
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Otto - the items from Ikebana International are fascinating. I think 012 is both clever & beautiful.
Gerry , glad you enjoyed the Ikebana pictures - my favourite is also 012- we seem to be on the same wavelength .
That 012 is stunning.... ikebana and origami in one.... what could be more appropriate ?
Was it a competition as well as an exhibition, Otto?
Maggi , it was just an exhibition , immensly appreciated by many people . Would love to learn the principles of the modern Sogetsu School - but I am too "busy" in my retirement, however I don't think I am "clod"[as in clumsy- not as a cold person]
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I appreciate the demands on your time, Otto, though I believe you would be an ideally suited to these fine Japanese arts.
Maybe when you are old you will find a spare moment or two for that study? :)
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Maggi,
Come on, do you have to think so far in the future? Let him live his life now, instead of having to think far enough ahead to when he is actually old. ::)
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Maggi,
Come on, do you have to think so far in the future? Let him live his life now, instead of having to think far enough ahead to when he is actually old. ::)
Yes, Paul, you are right.... I'll leave it now and remind Otto in twenty or thirty years about the ikebana. :)
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Maggi,
Come on, do you have to think so far in the future? Let him live his life now, instead of having to think far enough ahead to when he is actually old. ::)
Yes, Paul, you are right.... I'll leave it now and remind Otto in twenty or thirty years about the ikebana. :)
Maggi , in20 or 30 years I will send you kisses from above xxx
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Perhaps by then we will both be canoodling in the hereafter, Otto :-X Meantime I look forward to kisses in 2011 at the Conference!! :-*
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Er, Maggi. Are you sure that you should be discussing canoodling with Otto in the afterlife..... I'm not sure that Ian will be entirely pleased about that prospect? :P :-*
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No, Paul, Ian is never done cuddling women, left right and centre.... he'll never notice me indulging in a little canoodling here and there ::)
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Ah, so what is good for the gander is good for the goose? ;)
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thanks all for sharing these things.. a few questions--
so how small are 'small' nerines?
6m dahlias? how do you get up there to photograph the flowers?
paul and others, how cold does it get in those hills with the lovely fall colour?
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thanks all for sharing these things.. a few questions--
so how small are 'small' nerines?
To me small nerines for the rock garden are around 12" (30cm) or less tall and have a more natural, less "refined" look, like this one, Nerine filifolia (or is it filimentosa??)
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And what are these about to emerge? And I won't be there to take their pic :'(
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I've already posted this one to the Narcissus thread, but here it is again, N. viridiflorus,
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And the Oxalis palmifrons is now producing its foliage to accompany the last flowers,
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cheers
fermi
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Fermi,
I've never had a flower on my palmifrons in all the years I've been growing it. ::) Your Nerine is filifolia... filamentosa from memory has elongated naughty bits, extending well out the front of the flower making it quite distinctive. That is if my memory is correct as I only flowered mine once, and that must be close to 10 years ago now. N. filifolia on the other hand flowers brilliantly every year, stopping only if badly disturbed or repotted.
So... if you aren't there to be photographing the Crocus, does that mean that you are you off on holidays yet again?
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To me small nerines for the rock garden are around 12" (30cm) or less tall and have a more natural, less "refined" look, like this one, Nerine filifolia (or is it filimentosa??)
cheers
fermi
tks..i like smaller and less refined as a general principle :)
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What are these? One of the crocuses obviously but I can't remember which of my (now finished) autumn species had a yellow throat. Niveus maybe?
Cohan, the race of nerines which I have vary in height from about 15cms to perhaps 35 or 40 cms. In essence they look just like the big, modern hybrids but everything is smaller in proportion,; height, slimmer stems, smaller flowers.
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I adore your Narcissus viridiflorus Fermi. I got three from Otto/Marcus this summer but there's no sign of them so far :'( I'll have to go looking in the pot.
And HOW DARE you have all those flowers on O. palmifrons when no-one else gets any at all?
More snow overnight and rain/hail now. I want to go back to bed.
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thanks all for sharing these things.. a few questions--
so how small are 'small' nerines?
6m dahlias? how do you get up there to photograph the flowers?
paul and others, how cold does it get in those hills with the lovely fall colour?
Cohan,
I just realised that I forgot to respond to these questions.......
The 6m dahlia photography is made much easier by the fact that my newer camera has a 12x optical zoom lense. I could never get anywhere near as close on the old camera. I've taken more photos since then with a whole bunch of flowers out, but haven't had a chance to take them off the memory card as yet.
I'm with the others on the Nerine definitions. One of my favourites is N. masoniorum which has flowers about 1cm or so wide, but perfectly shaped with ruffled petal edges etc. Grows to less than 30cm tall and is absolutely delightful. Some of the species are just amazing!!
Our autumn colour has been excellent here this year because we've had a slow descent into the cold. Some years it is far too dry and goes straight to frosts, so we end up with everything rapidly going brown instead of good colour. This year we've had a lot of the last month hovering overnight at 1-4'C and this has been perfect for colour formation. We end up during winter at down to -8 or -9'C extreme, but the colour forms best when the temps slowly drop to let the plants know it is autumn and time to drop the leaves. The slow cold we've had has been perfect for that. Once the frosts start to hit properly everything that is still colouring will just toast and go brown, but so far it's been spot on temperature-wise.
Is that the sort of information you were after?
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Fermi,
I've never had a flower on my palmifrons in all the years I've been growing it. ::) Your Nerine is filifolia... filamentosa from memory has elongated naughty bits, extending well out the front of the flower making it quite distinctive. That is if my memory is correct as I only flowered mine once, and that must be close to 10 years ago now. N. filifolia on the other hand flowers brilliantly every year, stopping only if badly disturbed or repotted.
So... if you aren't there to be photographing the Crocus, does that mean that you are you off on holidays yet again?
Paul and Lesley,
I haven't done anything special with this Oxalis palmifrons but it seems to be the only one that flowers - each year, the same part of the bed and only one bulb seems to put up any flowers. But it is planted into a raised bed like a "natural" trough which is lucky as it spreads rather vigorously!
The crocus was received as C. specious "albus" but I'm pretty sure it's actually C. pulchellus "albus" - which is good because I didn't have it and I got the other soon afterwards but it flowers a month earlier. I won't be able to photograph it because it'll be open while I'm at work - unless it lasts till the weekend! We won't be on holidays for months yet! ;D
cheers
fermi
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Cohan,
I just realised that I forgot to respond to these questions.......
Our autumn colour has been excellent here this year because we've had a slow descent into the cold. Some years it is far too dry and goes straight to frosts, so we end up with everything rapidly going brown instead of good colour. This year we've had a lot of the last month hovering overnight at 1-4'C and this has been perfect for colour formation. We end up during winter at down to -8 or -9'C extreme, but the colour forms best when the temps slowly drop to let the plants know it is autumn and time to drop the leaves. The slow cold we've had has been perfect for that. Once the frosts start to hit properly everything that is still colouring will just toast and go brown, but so far it's been spot on temperature-wise.
Is that the sort of information you were after?
thats great, thanks :)
i know there are a range of climates there, but didnt know too much about your coldest zones...your lowest lows sounds like early fall here ;)
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Choan,
Yes, USDA zone 2-3 we certainly ain't!! (Thankfully!!) ;) ;D
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So... if you aren't there to be photographing the Crocus, does that mean that you are you off on holidays yet again?
The crocus was received as C. specious "albus" but I'm pretty sure it's actually C. pulchellus "albus" - I won't be able to photograph it because it'll be open while I'm at work - unless it lasts till the weekend! We won't be on holidays for months yet! ;D
Well it looks like they might just last till tomorrow as they were still in tight bud this morning
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cheers
fermi
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Fermi,
I hope they aren't from teh same source of speciosus albus as mine were a few years ago..... mine were I think kotchyanus albus, much to my disappointment. ::)
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Fermi,
I hope they aren't from teh same source of speciosus albus as mine were a few years ago..... mine were I think kotchyanus albus, much to my disappointment. ::)
B.H.T?
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Yep. Mine were white with the strong yellow throat, but I think they're kotschyanus, not pulchellus alba. But I could easily be wrong. Very easily!! ;D
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Yep. Mine were white with the strong yellow throat, but I think they're kotschyanus, not pulchellus alba. But I could easily be wrong. Very easily!! ;D
Oh well, I don't have that one either! ;D Hopefully I'll be able to post a pic of the flowers open by Monday and we might be able to get a positive ID. :)
cheers
fermi
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Fermi,
Actually, I'm not sure where I got that name from. Must have popped into mind for some reason. Actually, they were ochroleucus. It was only when I read your response and looked back at mine that I realised I had boo boo'd on the name. Unfortunately I already had ochroleucus, and given how it multiplies that isn't surprising. ;) Then again, this clump in the crocus garden is flowering better than any of my other ochroleucus have ever flowered before, so maybe it is a slightly different clone..... more likely it is just the "crocus garden effect". ;D
It's the second last pic in this posting..... http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3332.msg93244#msg93244 , although there are a number more of them out in flower now. This was just the first one, when I looked at it and realised that it definitely wasn't speciosus album.
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Paul and Fermi, now you've got me on the Crocus thread once more - no doubt borne out of frustration at not being able to grow them at all!!
The seed I plant germinates and then grows like the blazes until they go dormant in spring - then I never see them again :'( I was wondering just the other day if I plant / water them too early in the autumn when the combination of heat / moisture is too much for them and they just rot - perhaps if I planted / watered them only towards the end of May, then I would have greater success? I would really appreciate some advice if you can give it.
My climate seems to be somewhat warmer than yours with winter minima of the order of minus one or two degrees C.
Best regards
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Rogan, the earlier you sow (and they germinate) the fatter the corms will be at the end of the season. Here we have somewhat similar problems to yours but out seedlings are never in full sun, although with strong indirect sunshine, this to keep them as cool as possible at first. The long season of dormancy is the problem tho (in a warm climate of course) and if you have basement keep the pots with dormant corms in them for the summer. We have solved the problem this way, but in a shaded room on metallic benches. This keep them cool enough not to dry off for good.
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Fermi and Paul , here is a Picture of the true Crocus pulchellus albus i I will also post it in
'Crocus Southern Hem.'and a few other species still in flower today .My Galanthus
reginae-olgae 'Cambridge'is still in flower , usually finished by the time the tall Gingko
biloba changes to its butter-yellow autumn dress .Paul ,like in your garden ,early forms of
Gal. elwesii are already pushing up flowerbuds , so the snowdrop season extends from late
march to early september here.
Also a few Nerines in flower today - unnamed - quite nice .
Also as the Lapagerias are in flower at the moment : a page from a list of colour forms ,
discovered in the forrests of Chile , introduced into cultivation, imported into Australia
some years ago and available from a Nursery here.They can only be propagated by layering
a slow process , but by serpentine layering you get quite a number of plants from the
mother plant.
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here are the photos
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Otto,
Nice. Are the Lapagerias from Martin F? Or.... Dicksonia sells them from memory too doesn't he?
Your Crocus pulchellus albus looks better than my slightly distorted flower that I posted in the southern hemisphere crocus topic. I think mine got caught up a bit on emergence and distorted the flowers. Yours look so much nicer.
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thanks Paul,
yes the Lapageria list/photos are from Martin Ferrugia , and he supplies a few to Stephen R.
at 'Dicksonia'. Saw Stephen Ryan on the replay today on the ABC 'Gardening Australia', demonstrating the technique of layering [serpentine] of Lapageria.Do they thrive in
Canberra , as they do here in The Dandenongs ?but then you are not in a Temperate
Rainforrest .
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Otto,
I have one very sorry little plant in a pot, but found out from Martin last year that they are actually more cold hardy than I was aware. I have a spot to plant mine now, but haven't done it yet. It is well lit but little direct sunlight. Hopefully that will work out OK. I am getting some seeds from a pink shortly, so will grow some from seed as well and see how they go. Wish me luck! ;D
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Dear Otto, do these recent posts mean that you have mastered the art of picture posting? I told you it wasn't difficult, didn't I? :D
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Hi Otto,
I've posted a reply in the Crocus inthe SH thread about my white "not speciosus' with a pic of the open flowers,
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Do you think this is also C. pulchellus albus?
This is C. biflorus ssp. melantherus, Also posted on the crocus thread
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Our Moraea polystachya has only just started to flower, though Paul's were out ages ago
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A pot of Oxalis ciliaris which I received from a friend at FCHS/AGS VG has come into bloom,
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with its lovely soft orange flowers
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And the first of the hoops, Narcissus cantabricus foliosus has started,
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but the breeze this morning meant the pics are a bit fuzzy (that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!)
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And finally for its Scottish connections, a Rowan in autumn dress!
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cheers
fermi
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Fermi,
My Moraea polystachya is still flowering heavily, has been constantly since I posted pics of it weeks and weeks ago. I can't believe how many flowers I have had on it, and no sign of stopping.
And thanks for the pics..... I like that Oxalis. Love the orange ones.
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Yes Fermi , your "not speciosus" is C. pulchellus albus .
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Rogan , I can understand your frustration in your failure to successfully cultivate Crocus , one of my favourite genera . They grow very well for me in the open garden - with summer temperatures in the high thirties , and in the winter not below minus 2 degrees Celsius , I imagine not much different to yours .
But you have in your country a bulb that is almost a Crocus , the closest Genus to Crocus , with the name of Afrocrocus [this is a real name - not a joke !]unifolius Manning &Goldblatt ,
it was known previously as Syrengodea unifolia .-as nice as Crocus sieberi ssp. sublimis forma
tricolor .I would love to grow it ,but have never been able to get hold of seeds . Would you know of a source of seeds ? It should be in flower now -late winter -early winter , in western Karoo , on the Roggeveld Escarpment . Good luck in finding it .
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Rogan , just found a photo of Afrocrocus unifolius -not a very clear one - sorry .
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Wow Otto. Never heard of that one before (although here on the forums that isn't really that surprising..... there seems to be a lot of things posted recently that I've never heard of before! :o)
;)
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Afrocrocus unifolius is new to me, too. It is certainly working very hard to be a crocus, that's for sure! Pretty thing.
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I wonder, can Rogan be bribed with chocolate? or a bottle of wine?
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In Peter Goldblatt's recent book "The Iris Family" he presents a summary of all his monumental work over the years with several nomenclatural names. The line drawings and many color photos include a lot of uncommon species, including one of the long lost Freesia speciosa, the one with the largest (monster) sized in the genus.