Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: Susan Band on November 21, 2006, 09:07:26 AM
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Here are some Trillium erectum hybrids that flowered for the first time last year. Its great looking at photos at this time of year and hard to believe what is out there under the soil. There wasn't a dedicated Trillium thread so have put this in general bulbs.
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These are beautiful Susan. I've been moaning (quietly) about the size of the pictures on the new Forum but now realize (Maggi again) that I can see them bigger by clicking on the file name under the picture. Thanks Maggi (again).
"I can see them bigger by clicking on the file name under the picture".... or by clicking in the picture itself.
You are most welcome, Lesley (again) :-*
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Thanks Lesley. I was really excited when they flowered as although I had planted various colours of T. erectum together I didn't really think the bees would do their best. I had them labeled as Trillium erectum maroon so this must be the seed parent, imagine my surprise when they opened.
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Susan,
What a stunning combination of different colours. I didn't realise there were so many different combos in that species. I just have one deep red of flowering size as yet, but some pink and some white seedlings coming along as well to one day flower. Here in Canberra, Australia we've just finished Trillium season. At the moment Paris polyphylla has just opened (to give you an idea of timing) and the T. erectum finished a few weeks ago.
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Paul,
Do what I did and plant all the different colours you can lay your hands on together, T. erectum and flexipes, wait 5-10yrs and see what seedlings you have. I will probably try and select a few different ones, name them then propagate them up, will still take about 5 yrs before I get selling numbers!
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Susan,
But that will take PATIENCE!! :D
Actually, I have patience as I grow a lot of bulbs from seed. I do at this stage however have only the single T. erectum and young seedlings of other colours..... so it will take QUITE a few years to get the selection going!! LOL I can at least admire yours here whenever I want to though!! That's the great thing about these pages..... seing all the wonderful things that everyone else grows.
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Lovely Trilliums Susan. Nice to look back and even nicer to look forward to next year's blooms.
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I'll post in here instead of opening a new thread
There has been chat on the PBS forum this week about Trillium 'Del Norte'. It's a cross between rivale and ovatum. Today I crossed ovatum with all my rivales that are open. Time will tell what happens. I had to go to my gardening friend Margaret Glynn to get a couple of ovatum flowers - mental note beg some when dormant - that had ripe pollen.
While there she surprised me with my fave cake, coffee cake. I'm allowed to share a slice with everyone. The inner cream is a mix of butter cream, ummmm, and creme freshe. The top is chopped pecans
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Delicious Mark, Maggi will love it. I had to leave the nuts though, don't like 'em. ;D
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Coffee cake, my all time favourite! Just one of the reasons why Margaret Glynn is one of the nicest people I know. And she has a super garden that is a joy to see.
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Cut me a slice too.
Flowering for the first time for me Trillium foetidissimum
Tried sniffing to see if it did smell rotten but couldn't detect it.
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A few in the garden at the moment.
Paddy
T. in need of a name!
T. sessile
T. ovatum
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Hello,
Here are a few nice Trillium.
1- decipiens from Alabama
2- discolor in the wild.
3- another but with a flash. Note all the little white "candles" in the dark. My favorite species, sometimes! The scent in this river valley was amazing, like lemoncurd! There must have been tens of thousands of them. The area was overgrown by Lonicera japonica and Ligustrum, both non-native weeds, but the Trillium were obviously thriving.
4- pusillum alabamicum, the nicest and most vigorous var./ssp.. Well clumping in the garden.
5- recurvatum in the wild in Illinois. This species is in nearly every woodland in Illinois, even the tiny ones in the middle of farm fields. This particular locality has thousands upon thousands of them in about 2 acres. You cannot even walk without crushing them under your feet.
6- a yellow cuneatum
7- sulcatum with Tiarella
8- recurvatum from Texas. Blooms the earliest of all my forms and has nice leaves.
9- a gray leaved viridescens
10- another favorite, especially this clone. Very vigorous and beautiful plants. T.underwoodii.
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I really like the Trilliums with big camoflage leaves
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Lovely Trilliums especially virescens
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The foliage of T. underwoodii is particularly good, isn't it?
Paddy
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These are fabulous! We must get a scent facility for the forum!! I so want to enjoy their fragrance as well as their good looks! Just a wonderful plant, in all its forms... so grateful to you for these pix, Aaron.
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here is one of my favourites ex Michael Campbell way back at my first Dublin Group weekend. Not multiplying fast but the flowers are huge. What a difference "rain" makes ;)
And one that has unusual shaped flowers
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Mark, did you ever find out what happened to your spots on Purple Heart?
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no. I must take a photo of them later
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Mark,
That pink is absolutely superb!!!! Great distribution of colour and awesome form. Would have to be one of the best rivales I have seen on the Net (and way better than anything I have seen in person too!! LOL).
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I just won the MC Hammer trophy for a pot of the same strain. Same one I got last year for a Daphne SDR2. The trophy is for the best in section C which is for beginners. After a year only got it polished and engraved yesterday and it's mine again ;D
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Well done Mark.
I am just lifting a few plants to fill the benches at our show next week. Not aiming for trophies, just getting them there is a major effort for me. I certainly appreciate all the work and time serious competitors put into filling the show with lovely plants for all us to wonder at.
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I just won the MC Hammer trophy
Really, the MC Hammer trophy? Are you having us on? Isn't MC Hammer a past-it rapper?
Whatever, congrats on the win!
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Only messing with the name. It is the C. H. Hammer Trophy
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I just won the MC Hammer trophy
Really, the MC Hammer trophy? Are you having us on? Isn't MC Hammer a past-it rapper?
Before my time!!!!!
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Nicholson, I can find out where you live, you know! >:(
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Only messing with the name. It is the C. H. Hammer Trophy
Congrats Mark. Star of television and of the Show benches. It isn't fair that so much talent should be vested in one person! :P
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Nicholson, I can find out where you live, you know! >:(
I'm not frightened, all I need to do is promise CAKE then all would be peaceful ;D
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I'm not frightened, all I need to do is promise CAKE then all would be peaceful
Sigh! Am I so transparent? :P
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here is a close up taken today of the ripple ice-cream Trillium rivale petal
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Nice pics Mark.
I remember Michaels wonderful shots of various Trillium rivale forms on the old forum including a plant named T.rivale roseum AGM form.(Had a quick look and found the postings under Trilliums 05).
Paul--Michael very graciously offered ,via the forum ,seed off some of his plants and i was lucky enough to receive a envelope in june 05.Seed was sown immediately and although i don't remember any germination the following spring there has been great success this past season .Fingers crossed......
Cheers Dave.
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Dave,
Yes, I remember said seed. In fact I think I had good germination last year from those he so generously shared. Like I would miss an opportunity like THAT!!? <grin> I know that Michael's were pretty speccy, but one can only hope for something as lovely that the "ripple ice cream" colouration as Mark so aptly puts it. Thanks for the closeup Mark. Really lovely!! Are you going to self cross it and try for seed, or else cross it with something as close as you have in colouration? Who knows what seedlings you could end up with out of that in a few years time?
Actually Dave you've reminded me that I must check on that pot. I'm tempted to pot the whole thing up into a larger pot to give them a chance to put on some size. I am figuring that not all have germinated as yet, given that they can wait a while (although not as much as the Trilliums themselves).
Such a nice thread....... reminds me so much of what is to come. More Crocus starting to poke up buds here at the moment, plus more of the autumn Galanthus. Great Stuff!! ;D
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as for seeds of these ripple Trilliums there will be no seed from them this year as I have crossed them all with T. ovatum. There will be next year.
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Mark,
So how will you know whether you have had them self or that the cross was successful? Did you emasculate the flowers early on, and were there other rivales flowering within bee distance (or did you screen it off to be sure)? I am wondering as I figure that if seed sets in this case you'd really be wondering, given that so many supposed crosses have ended up being selfs or straight rivale instead.
Despite all that gloom and doom from me.... good luck with the cross. I can wait an extra year to see what your rivale seedlings from this look like. I reckon you'll eventually be showing us a whole range of different ripple ice-cream offspring for us to drool over (and maybe even if you're lucky some ovatum x ripple ice-cream offspring as well! <grin>).
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this is the first year I have done the cross after reading about in on the PBS forum. I suppose it may be three years before I know what will happen. I didnt remove the anthers - didnt think about it - but did add ovatum pollen before the anthers were ripe. The pot was then isolated on the north side of the house
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I didn't think rivale would hybridise with ovatum?
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Trillium` Del Norte' Reputed to be a hybrid between T.ovatum and T.rivale. It looks like a giant T.rivale and clumps up fast. Totally awesome.
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Trillium cuneatum in flower at the moment looks good in dappled shade.
Paddy
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Three trilliums I have open now are T. rivale; T. pusillum and T. grandiflorum forma roseum. This is my best form, although it has been pinker.
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In response to a scent feature: I would say yes to some, but to others I would say no. Foetidissimum is properly named. Its scent has been likened to Limburger cheese, which I am sure someone must find pleasant, or more like really bad stinky feet. Erectum is like a wet dog or egg white. Reliquum is bad, but not quite sure what to call it. Others are acetic or rotten fruit like, but many are intensely sweet. Some cuneatum, luteum, most discolor (some are peppery with lemon), Florida lancifolium, and albidum are all pleasantly scented.
As for T. rivale, I wish I grew it. I have two pots of seed. Sitting & waiting. Someday they should germinate.
Another pic: foetidissimum, silver leaf
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Here are some of my ovatums, native to my yard, which I have crossed
with T. rivale pollen I collected in the Siskiyous. They are caged to protect
them from deer, which relish trilliums.
I chose pollen from varied rivales - it is amazing how much they vary, even
ones very close to each other may be white unspotted, pink or red spotted, pink,
round-petalled, folded-petal-tips, plain or white-veined leaves - take all
those variables and mix them.
I'm sure if I do get ovatum/rivale hybrids I will be able to tell because my
ovatum are plain white with plain green leaves.
I'm happy to hear that Mark is doing the recipocal cross for me.
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Here are pictures of some of the Trillium rivale growing near each other
in the Illinois River Valley in southern Oregon in the Siskiyou Mountains.
I will probably have to put them in several messages as ones showing
habitat have a lot of pixels, but I think it is interesting to see how they
are spaced, and what grows with them. You will notice leaves of
Erythronium citrinum, which emerges later than the trillium.
As you can see from the litter, they grow under widely-spaced pine trees
with manzanita ( an Arctostaphylos). The ones growing in an adjacent
more-thickly wooded area, with Arbutus and Douglas fir (A. menziesii and
Pseudotsuga m.), were often nipped off by deer. The deer apparently did
not like dining in the open pine areas.
In no case, despite what many books say, have I ever found them near
a stream.
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Another wild Trillium rivale.
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More wild Trillium rivale:
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Last one: Deer's Dinner menu: Trillium rivale - but just the three flowers.
I guess the leaves are not tasty.
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great to see them in the wild. I have a lone pusillum that need a full name if it has one. The petal backs are deep pink almost red
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Diane,
Thanks for the pics. Can I convience you to sell me some seed from that lovely deep pink rivale? LOL That has got to be one of the strongest colours in rivale I have seen. In person I've only ever seen palest pink, but I have hopes for some interesting bits from Michael's seed from last year. Fingers are crossed for some interesting stuff there, and if something as deep a pink as that were to appear I would be positively ecstatic!! ;D
Really good to see what they are like in the wild. I honestly didn't realise that the wild plants were that variable..... I sort of thought that, as with so many things we have, they were selectively bred in captivity to get the stronger colours.
Great stuff!! Thanks again.
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Oh, Diane, how super! I am interested to see that several forms you show have very full, rounded shapes to the blooms..... Yummy! But sadly the deer think so, too. :'(
Aaron, you are right to have reservations about the scent feature that I wished for.... I had, in my enthusiasm, forgotten that there are as many nasty scents as gorgeous ones, so I will amend my desires accordingly... Now I want a scent feature... with an on/off switch ! ;) :D
As I type this, I'm aware of another tapping sound... it is hailstones against the window... hail is our major "pest" of trillium... we have in the past watched aghast as big hail stones literrally punched their way through big, beautiful trillium leaves and left them looking awful. This is, I trust, just a quick shower of fraily small hail, so perhaps there will not be too much damage. Though there are roe deer in the vicinity, we are fortunate that our garden is not accessible to these creatures.
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Diane,
Wondereful photographs. Many thanks.
Those deer are a nuisance.
Paddy
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That pink rivale is really nice Diane. I'm really into pink trilliums and am gutted that my T.rivale 'Purple Heart' seems to have disappered. Really strange, as there are numerous tiny grandiflorum seedlngs sprouting in the very spot where 'Purple herat' isn't, so it can't be the conditions?
The jury seems to be out on whether 'Del Norte' is a hybrid or just a form of rivale. Consensus seems to favour the latter?
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Maggi, I was looking in the old forum and noticed that you requested some seed of a trillium Rivale that I posted. Did I ever send it to you?
I don't remember. If not I will have lots of seed this year or tubers if you would like them.
Cheers.
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Michael, you know, I don't believe you did send seed. I would be delighted to get some this year, or a tuber if you would be so kind as to spare one.
Many thanks indeed,
Maggi
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Will send you some tubers when they start to die back, I have lots of tubers.
Remind me again about the end of May as the head is not as good as it used to be.
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Remind me again about the end of May as the head is not as good as it used to be.
I have written that on the calendar, Michael, since my head's not so hot nowadays, either!!
Thank you! :-*
M
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Howdy All,
While we're mentioning rivale..... if anyone has seedset and spare seed on their silver veined leaf-forms of rivale, please contact me. I would be willing to buy or trade for some of these. Except for pictures here on the SRGC I didn't know there WERE rivales with silver veinings etc on the leaves. To be honest I am interested in any interesting rivales of any description. I just LOVE that species and would love to get a collection together of all different types nad forms. I would love seed of 'Purple Heart' on of these years, even knowing that the seedlings may be nothing like the parent..... still worth a try in case. At this point I have various spottings on white and palest pink in rivale, plus seed from last year from Michael. I am after anything else, knowing that it will take a while of course as they have to come from seed. Unless of course there are Aussies here who have different forms who are willing to sell or trade.
I thought this was worth posting here instead of in the seed area.
I have also seen mention recently elsewhere or silver leaf T. luteums? What do these look like? Are they veined like the luteums or do they have silver overlay on the leaf? I have seen marbling on Trillium leaves (although I have never seen in person marbling as strong as so many of those posted here on the SRGC. None of mine have ever exhibited such strong markings unfortunately) but never silver shadings to my knowledge, not even in pictures. Does anyone have any pictures that they could post?
Thanks in anticipation.
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Beautiful Trillium Mark. I have 3 types , the one that looks like yours came to me as just T. pusillum
1 T pusillum
2 T.p. ssp georgianum tends to be white but blushes at the backs with age.
3 T.p. ssp alabamicum starts off paale and starts to blush on both sides.
4 and lasts for a very long time, deepening to a dark red.
Whether these are all reliably named, I can't say but came from a reliable source.
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A couple of years ago I saw a Trillium rivale in Thimble Farms garden that had two
different flowers. I remarked to Richard Fraser, the owner, that two seeds must
have sprouted and grown together. He said he had first thought that, but
when he dug the plant up to check, he found that there was only one rhizome.
Not only that, but the plant varies from year to year as to which end is darker.
He got the plant as Purple Heart from the O'Byrnes of Northwest Garden Nursery
in Eugene, Oregon, U.S.A. They haven't had this happen to any of their plants.
Here is the two toned one at Thimble Farms:
[attachthumb=1]
And here is one at the O'Byrnes.
[attachthumb=2]
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Diane,
Like you, I noticed that there were variations on the colours within the same plants of Trillium rivale, some flowers were plain white whereas some were pink spotted. Don't know if it is the same every year as they are only young plants.
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So a sport on the `Purple Heart' clone?
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Two trillium grandiflorum that I bought at the garden centre yesterday
Rob
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I wonder if these flowers were pink when they first opened?
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I don't know if they were pink when the flowers opened. You can tell from the photos that they are starting to go over.
I bought them from Cotswold Garden Flowers. These were the only two with pink, the rest were all white.
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Diane, I've had variation with T. rivale also. Sometimes with 2 petals quite different from the other.
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Lesley asked if the Purple Heart rivale had sported.
It looks to me as though the plant can only manage to make a set amount of pigment
and there isn't always enough for each flower, or each petal in the case of John's plant.
I read somewhere that there is a cost to a plant for producing nectar, colour, scent etc.
so they can't do it all, and that is why white flowers are more likely to be scented than
strongly pigmented ones.
Or was it that the chemical precursors of scent and pigment are often the same
and the plant gets to choose one or the other? No pigment, lots of scent, some pigment,
some scent, or lots of pigment, no scent.
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John those dark Trilliums are great
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But are colour and/or scent not built in genetically to each species, according to what their pollinators are? Some insects see colour, some smell scent, presumably. If a plant is naturally coloured, surely there would be enough colour for all its flowers?
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A chimera perhaps?
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I think the colour/scent question would refer to species and genera, not to individual flowers on one plant. Plants with white, scented flowers will be pollinated by night-flying insects like moths. I don't think colour production is very 'expensive'. Scent and nectar production, however, will be, as nectar is high octane fuel and scent must be a volatile, possibley energy-rich substance too? Notice that honeysuckle (Lonicera spp.) only produce their scent in the early evening when the hawk moths (Sphingidae) etc. come out.
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Here are pics of Trillium grandiflorum 'Flore Pleno'. The first came from Blooms; the second didn't. They don't look any different from Paul Christian's 'Snowbunting', which I also have.
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Howdy All,
Sorry, still trying to catch up on some older threads.
Anthony, those pics of the flore plena are absolutely fantastic. So VERY very nice!! I've just traded for a piece of this this year here in Aus, so I am awaiting the future when it flower (I expect not until next year unfortunately, but hoping for that nice I can live with it just marginally!!).
Thanks for the pics. They're just wonderful.
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No seeds from my crosses of ovatum x rivale. No seeds from my crosses
of ovatum x scented ovatum, either. Not a great year.
I'll try again next year.
Phyllis Gustafson wrote me that the original owners of Siskiyou Rare Plants
had success with ovatum x rivale and the reverse cross as well.
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not one seed from my ovatum x rivale either
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Nearly Trillium flowering time here in my part of Aus. There are buds in evidence, although no colour as yet. Judging by most of the recent posting it means Fermi should have them opening any day now!! ;D
So nice to have Trilliums in evidence again.