Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => Flowers and Foliage Now => Topic started by: Hans J on April 21, 2009, 04:01:05 PM
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Hi all ,
I will start in this year a new topic for tree peonies :
[attach=1]
the first flowering in this year is P. jishanensis - thats very rare plant here in Europe - the flowers opens not fully
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this plants has a strange habit -they make stolones :o
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also today is flowering :
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P.qiui
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this plants also makes stolones
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Rare and beautiful Tree Peonies - what a treat to see it flowering like this. I wonder how long it has taken for them to reach this size?
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Robin :
I have plant P. jishanensis + P.qiui before 5 years -both little single stem little plants ....
Friends have help me to get it - they are pretty rare !
These plants are growing in a border with real woodland conditiones -on east side of our house ....and really shady !
Wait some days ....I will show here more surprises ;)
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Interesting plants - perfectly grown (and photographed)!
Excuse me - but I don't know why you said - the flowers of P. jishanensis don't open fully. Do you mean in comparison to other tree peonies?
Gerd
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Can you help identify this growing in a friend's garden, about 5'tall now.
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Gerd :
The flowers of P.jishanensis are really strange for me -I have waiting yesterday always if the opend ....today the same - I think thats the maximum.
Normaly the flowers of treepeonies are open ...
John : this is a P. delavayii
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Delicious paeonies, Hans. I like that they stay cup-shaped.
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Hans,
Are these tree paeonies? In the same style as P. delavayi - growing to tall woody shrubs? I have never seen the like; they are outstanding, beautiful. Presumably from seed?
Paddy
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Paddy ,
yes thats tree peonies !
in winter you see there only some wood stems ....
I have received this plants via friends from chinese botanists ....it is impossibly to get seeds here .
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Hans,
Love that quii... such wonderful ruffling to it. Beautiful!! :o
John,
What a lovely coloured delaveyi. I've only seen brownish ones, but yours appears to be much deeper in colouration. Excellent! 8)
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Hans,
What fabulous plants, wonderful introductions. These are astonishingly beautiful plants. Well done on flowering them.
Paddy
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John, I think yours is a very nice form or possibly close hybrid of P. delavayi. Is it scented? Delavayi usually is, in my experience.
Super plants and pictures Hans. Just what we'd expect from you. :)
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Sorry, I see there is already an answer to your ID John.
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Hans very interesting species I have never heard these names before. What a collection you must have 8)
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Thank you for all your compliment ....
"The people in the cheaper seats clap your hands. And the rest of you, just rattle your jewelry" ;D
( quotation from John Lennon )
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Fabulous flowers and plants Hans ! :o :o
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Help please! Our P.delavayi has started suckering all over the place, mostly where it is definitely not wanted. What is the best way to get rid of the suckers without damaging the plant?
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Lovely plants and photos. :) 8)
Brian I have seen a plant being cut down to just some 5 cm or so in the botanical garden in Lund. I do not know why they did it but It came back fine and after a few years it is getting big again. It might be that it got too big. From this I presume that it will not hurt the plant if You cut some of the succers.
I have small plants that have been stept on so that they need to start from scratch again and that they do but those really are set back so this is only to be done for big 1.5 m high plants with many stems coming from under ground. I think they new growth came both from the old cut stems and from under ground. They had two and only did this with one of them.
They seem to be able to take quite an abuse.
Kind regards
Joakim
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Here is the tree peonia that blew down a few weeks ago.
The first one to bloom in the garden but hopefully there will be more.
To pictures just to illustrate the difference in lighting have on the colour.
Most are looking good and the last weeks of rain have done the plants good. I also watered them before so this is the best the plants have looked since they entered in the garden.
This plant was grown in a shade house at the garden center and lost most of the foliage when I planted it out in the open garden. Now it takes sun quite well.
Kind regards
Joakim
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Brian,
People are always looking for this. Mum has one which is hemmed in on two side by a wall so can only sucker in one direction. She just pulls /digs off the suckers to give to friends. It doesn't seem to mind this at all.
Susan
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You can also use a sharp spade to cut down hard and deep, then lift out the sucker. It will probably have roots but if not, heeled in it will quickly make some. The main plant doesn't mind at all.
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Brian,
I wish I could take a few from you.... my delaveyi is struggling to live, putting up a leaf or two each year only. Other ones do fine, but not the delaveyi for some reason. ::)
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Thanks Joakim, Lesley and Susan. I shall certainly attack it with vigour and pot up the suckers for plant sales. I was reluctant to do so in case I lost it as the scent is so incredible. Sorry I presume you cannot accept the plants in Canberra Paul :-\
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Brian,
Nope, only seed. It can be so frustrating at times when people are talking about this and that as weeds, when I don't already have them here. ::) Just a dreadful case of collectors envy... or should that be collecting envy..... or maybe non-acquisition anxiety... or how about..... :o
;D ;D
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Paul can it be that it like more water/ or the cooling effect o watering?
I have watered more and so has the weather man and they do look much better than last year. Maybe they are less heat tolerant than the other types. They do take very cold climates so may have problems in the other end?
I have them in clayish soil but very well drained since the neighbour garden 10 meters below and only 1.5 m away. In the summerhouse in Sweden it grows close to the house so is very well drained and sometimes need extra water.
I do know that they get big roots of that are straight like a carrot rather than branched, at least for the not so big ones, so if Yours are pot bound this may be part of the reason, for not so good growth?
As You know I am far from an expert so evaluate the comments I have and see if You think they have any substance.
Kind regards
Joakim
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Hans,
Back to P. jishanensis, the first photograph you posted of these tree paeonies. I was just showing them to Mary and noticed a bumble bee in the middle of the flower. No, I don't wish to know which species of bee just that the bee gave scale to the flower and it strikes me that they are very big. How wide are these flowers?
Another question for you: are there many tree paeonia cultivars available? I grow only two species but would not object to giving garden space to other plants.
Paul,
I only grow the more ordinary Paeonia ludlowii var. lutea and P. delavayi. Both of these are extremely easy from seed, indeed seed about in the garden, P. ludlowii var lutea particularly so. This is just in flower now and this is followed by a huge seed set - can you receive them in the post?
Paddy
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Paddy ,
you are right - this flowers are bigger than perennial peonies ....
I have just looked with a scale :
herbaceae peonies : 5 -9 cm in diameter
tree peonies : 8 - 12 cm in diameter
Yes many tre peony cultivars are avilable -but only few species !
The chinese people use this plants for breeding more than 2000 years !!!
To the nomenclature :
The correct name is P. ludlowii .....this is not a subspecies of lutea !!!
P. ludlowii is the biggest of all peony .
The other yellow flowering is P. delavayi v. lutea is much smaller.
Sometimes is it difficould with P. delavayii and P. delavayii v. lutea - both grows on the same locations .
The true P. delavayi makes not suckers !!! but they make always a lot of seeds .....
It is a problem to get a real P. delavayi v. lutea .....if there is seed aviable so this is mostly P. ludlowii
There exist also a other species :P. delavayi v. angustilobia - ( P. potanini is a synonym ) -this plants exist in some colors ( yellow ,red ,white ) and they make a lot of suckers .....
Sorry it is all a bit tricky with species peonies ;)
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Hans, are they all so well scented?
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Brian ,
I have not testet all ...
What I know is that the best parfume have some old P. lactiflora cultivars ( p.e. 'Edulis Superba' or 'Festiva Maxima' !
Some P. lactiflora are also used by producing Parfume 8)
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Hans,
Many thanks for the clarification regarding the names. Obviously, my yellow-flowering paeonia is P. ludlowii as it has small yellow flowers, does not sucker and has copious amounts of seed. My memory must have failed me. I was given this plant as a present 26 years ago, planted it in a previous garden, took it with me as seed and have it growing in this garden nearly 23 years now.
Many thanks, Paddy
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Paddy ,
do you have a pic of your plant ?
If you look in my pics from last year so you will find there a P.ludlowii :
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1690.msg44265#msg44265
P. ludlowii is easy to recognize :
from here size -they can reach 2 -3 m
from her fruits - they made one or two fruits with really big seeds
...they have not small flowers ....
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here is a new tree peony in flower ( for me the first time ):
P. 'Kinkoo'
I have received it from a friend from a Botanical Garden -I dont know exactly what it is ....but it looks if P.rockii was one of the parents ...
If I get more informations I will make a update ...
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Hans,
I don't have a photograph to hand and the weather is too bad to go out and take some now - tomorrow, if I can.
I have looked back at your photographs of P. ludlowii from last year and I believe that is what I am growing.
Paddy
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A gorgeous colour tree peony and cute name 'Kinkoo' - does the word mean anything Hans? ::)
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Robin :
It is really strange for me with this name ....
Normaly is 'Kinko' or 'Kinkou' a cross from a P.lutea with P.suffruticosa -and this plants flowering yellow ( a other name is 'Alice Harding')
But I'm shure that my friend has sent me a true named plant -maybe it is a very old import from the 30 er year ( Goos + Koenemann )
I have it tried this afternoon -in the web is nothing to find ....
"Kinkou" means "Golden Light"
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Robin ,
I have now found some informations more to this plant :
The name 'Kinkoo' is questable ....this plant is from the China National Native Produce Shanghai 1983 or from Goos & Koenemann - in a older catalog is listet is under ( maybe ) the name : 'New Yersey'
.....anyway : a nice plant !
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A really lovely plant, Hans, and looking so happy to be grown by you! Thanks so much for all the information about the name, I do find it interesting how they come about...tree peonies are gorgeous carrying their blooms so generously even if the flowering is short it is magnificent and the leaf too has a lovely form.
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Thank you Robin :D
For you ( from Valais ) is it not so far to drive to France to Riviere ....( look in Paeonia 2009 I have post today a link to this nursery ).....they have a fantastic selection !
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Will do Hans, thanks for the link...
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in year 1998 I have bought from Will McLewin my first P. rockii ( quit expensiv ) ....and I was really dissapointet when it's flowers in spring 1999 .....it was not a P. rockii :'(
I wrote him and he send me in next fall a replacement of a real nice P.rockii ....
This here is the (wrong ) plant :
P. 'Zi Ban Bai'
I suppose it is a breeding which has P.ostii has including - it is clear to see from the flower ( subsection vaginate ) and from the leaves
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This bloomed from the root stock of a chinese tree paeonia. I am not sure, but think it fits P. ostii. Any comments?
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I have to share these. They are seedlings from my garden that I gave to a dear friend before they bloomed. This year was the maiden. Both are lovely. The colours in the fotos are correct. Isn't that lavender wonderful? The cross was Renkaku x Kamada Fuji.
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Both are beautiful Jamie.
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They certainly are lovely. Though I really love 'Renkaku' perhaps best of all. The Japanese names means, I think, "Flight of Cranes."
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Thanks, Dave, Lesley,
I have quite a few double tree peonies, but the singles are really my favs. Godaishu and Hakuo Jishi are two other whites I love. Lesley, your japanese is pretty good.
sayonara
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Exquisite, Jamie. Purist white and truly stunning.
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My Japanese is non-existent but I read it somewhere. :D
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The singles are my favourites too, Jamie, so papery in the sunlight with those wonderful stamens.... a lovely close up of Renkaku-ki, thanks.
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Tree peonies are in flower here at the moment. I have attached some pictures from my garden.
Age of Gold
Corsair
Ice Storm
Pluto
Leda
Strawberry Delight
Not really alpines with these flowers measuring around 8 inches diameter.
Strawberry Delight has a very nice scent as well.
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I will try again this time attaching the others.
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Lovely selection Andre, you must be very proud of those.
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Sumptuous flower heads, Andre, Corsair is so rich satin looking and your photo of Icestorm is like a Rembrandt painting!
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André,
those are stupendous. I've never seen any of them available. A nice change from the classic cultivars. I tried 'Black Pirate', a relative to 'Corsair', but it just dwindled away. Do you know who is propagating the Daphnis hybrids in Europe? I really must learn to graft paeonies.
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Jamie,
As far as i am aware only Jean-Luc Rivière in Crest, France grafts amongst others some Daphnis cultivars on a regular basis. In Germany I know of Mr. Giessler. I do not have his address at hand but can pm it to You later if you are interested. Further in Germany there used to be Mr. Parlasca (Frankfurt) who imported from the US but I do not know whether he or his son, who toke over the bussiness, is still selling tree peonies.
I have tried grafting myself a couple of times but results are at best erratic and a source of good clean rootstock (ususally lactiflora) to graft on is difficult to find.
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Exquisite! 8)
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In year 2000 I have swaped with a american peony friend some seeds ....
he sent me seeds of P.rockii ssp. linyanshanii .....
and in this year I had the first flowers :
here is the situation on 02. April :
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this ssp. of P. rockii is very different from normal P.rockii :
from habitus ( more single )
other leaves than normal P.rockii
....and the biggest flowers of all species peonies ( more than 20 cm )
here pics from 07. April
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on 30. April the plants start with flowering ( I have received 8 seeds -all are germinatet - 4 plants I have given to other peony friends ...and 4 plants are in my garden )
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this is the succsess of a long time with waiting and much patience .....but it is worth or ?
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Such good leaves.... especially the young ones with that bronze colour. And SUCH a flower!! 8)
Beautiful!
Oh, yes, Hans, this is worth every minute you waited!!
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Thank you Maggi ;D
my problem is only the room .....and peonies need a lot of room....
Here some more :
P. decomposita
P.ostii 'Fen Dan Bai' ( bougth 1998 in Italy )
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from my P.ostii I have sown in year 2001 some seeds - last year I had the first flowers ....and I was really surprised about the variability ....
this both seedlings I have plant in my garden ....all other I have give to friends !
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Yes, these beauties take a lot of space, I know. I only wish I had more room to be able to give mine a better position... too many are not in enough sunshine because of so many trees. Most of mine are only swelling their buds now..... if they had more sun they would do so much better, even in Scotland :(
There are always some flowers to enjoy, but not as many as I would like, and always slugs looking to eat the seedlings :'(
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Maggi - it is a old but a wrong story ( but wrong ) that all peonies needs a lot of sun - many of my species peonies grows very well well in a border on the eastside of our house ....and it is only 3 m to the garage of our neighbar - so all this plants like :P.qiui , P. rockii,P. rockii ssp. linyanshanii , P. jishanensis,P. yannanensis, P.szechuanica and some other grow her in real wood condition ....
I think you would be really surprised if you would see many species peonies grows in woods - some on margins or clearings .
Here now some pics of my other P. rockii:
P. rockii 'Bing Shan Xue Lian'
P. rockii ex HE ( this plant has a really different habit -it is in meantime more than 2 meter high ....
ooops - you must have really hungry snails ....never a snail kills my peonies
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...the last for today :
P. yannanensis
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Hans, if I wanted to grow elephants then our snails would be happy to eat elephants! :'( ;)
When I say that I think my paeonies would like more sun, I suppose really that I mean they would like more wramth.... here one needs full sun to get warmth.... I think we have not got enough warmth in the soil or the air to ripen the growth really well and make lots of flowers. :-\
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Beautiful plants, Hans, and they certainly do eat-up the garden space. I've gotten into pruning mine after flowering with excellent results and, as you mentioned, most of the tree types are really half-sun plants. My best plant is generally covered by a cascade of roses by mid summer, putting it into midday shadow. It grows like fun.
I was looking at some rockii hybrids on the internet with extremely clean and trim spotting. I take it the ssp linyanshanii is responsible for these genes. What a wonderful effect. Gotta get one for the collection! :D :D
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Maggi ,
the most peonies growing in mountains .....some in really high altitudes ( p.e. P. rockii ) ....and mostly on north slopes ....i thank there is not warmer than in scottland
Jamie ,
I dont think that any P. linyanshanii are used for breeding ....they are extrem rare ....
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Jamie ,
I dont think that any P. linyanshanii are used for breeding ....they are extrem rare ....
Hans,
take a look at some of the hybrids on this website. I was amazed at the clarity of marking on some of the plants.
http://pivoine.bleue.free.fr/
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Stunning pictures Hans, of superb plants. A real treat to see your tree paeonies. Many, many thanks.
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Lesley ,
Many thanks for your friendly words :D
....I have offered in last years always seeds from my plants ....but there is not great interest ::)
I suppose to many people like to buy ready plants ...and not to wait a long time for flowers .
.....so I have sent all surplus seeds to Maggi for the seed distribution...
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Jamie ,
I know Roberto Pardo - he has good connections to China ....
The problem with the chines breeders is the most make multiplication generativ .....they sow her seeds and after flowering they make groups of similar plant ...so all plants are a bit different ...this is a real problem !
A really true multiplication ( with named clones ) is very rare ....
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Hans I didn't realize you had offered seed. I would be very interested when you have a new batch. I may not have something you would like though but would be very happy to exchange seed for Euros. :)
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Lesley :
please look here :
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2361.0
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Maggi :
here are some pics of my peony seedlings -taken on 07.April .....do you see any snails ?
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some more :
I know it is not well for peonies growing in pots .....but my space ....
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Hans,
Glorious rockiis. Just glorious. I love the P.rockii ssp. linyanshanii in particular, but the others are nearly as beautiful (and I just love the name 'Bing Shan Xue Lian' for some reason, even not knowing what it means). Congratulations on growing them all so well.
And thanks to others who are sharing their Paeonia pics as well..... all so nice. 8)
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Paul ,
So far I know mean 'Bing Shan Xue Lian' :
'Snow who comes from the mountains'
This is a very good cultivar ( also from Will Mclewin) -with a real good form of the brunches -I never cut any thing ( exept dry parts in sping after the frost )
I grow some more P.rockii .....one is a plant grown from seed orginal ex F.C.Stern ( F1 )...it is flowering for me also the first time ;D
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Hi André ,
I have now realized that we know us ...from a meeting in Kolkwitz in year 2001 :D
....we have both shows some pics ....
greetings
Hans
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I'm pleased to say that the pots of seedlings from seeds you kindly sent me look just like yours Hans. 8)
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Anthony ,
thats a good news !
Good succsess !
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Hans, I see no snails at all! Only beautiful baby plants, full of health. 8)
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Maggi :
only a idea : France is near of us ....and they eat them as 'Escargot' 8)
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Hans, I see no snails at all! Only beautiful baby plants, full of health. 8)
I agree - what is your secret solution for beautiful snail-free baby tree peonies?
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Hans,
I have a big favour to ask of you! No, no seed at this point, but, could you explain in words and pictures the, to me, subtle differences that seperate the various tree paeonia species and sub-species. I realize this is a possibly big task, but any reference points would help me (and others) to understand what to be looking for. Such as by P. ostii. I had thought it was always white, possibly with a tinge of rose, but you are showing specimens with astonishing colours.
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Jamie ,
as you say ....it is a big work ....and I have not so much time in moment .
P. ostii is easy to recognize :
look on the leaves
they have a different growing form ( wächst sparrig -ich weiß nicht das englische Wort )
they are more sensible for frost like P. rockii
section : Vaginate
I enclose two pics from last year ....you will see this plant grows higher and higher ....but makes no new branches on the upper side ....I fear to prune ....
The seedlings have the same behavior ....
One reason for this variation is maybe that 'Fen Dan Bai ' is a cultivar .....and I dont know what they made earlier ....
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Hans, I see no snails at all! Only beautiful baby plants, full of health. 8)
I agree - what is your secret solution for beautiful snail-free baby tree peonies?
Robin :
there is really no secret !
I have never seen a a snail on a peony .....this plants have more or less no animals who makes trouble ...
sometime in spring I see on closed buds a hole ...I dont know which animal this makes
We have to realize that peonies are very old plants -they have survivid millions of years ....they grow in all kind of climates ( Europe ,Asia and two species in North America )
They are similar old like ferns !
....they survive in hot areas ( California )and in really cold ( p.e. P. anaomal grows in Finland )- from near 50 m altitude until 2000 m ....
From one of the oldest peonies in China is reportet that this plant is more than 600 years !
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Jamie
here is a pic from today from my last P. ostii seedling in a pot - it is flowering for the first time !
the plants from the same batch are plant in my borders- they are much bigger ( also the size of flower )
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Hans, I see no snails at all! Only beautiful baby plants, full of health. 8)
I agree - what is your secret solution for beautiful snail-free baby tree peonies?
Robin :
there is really no secret !
I have never seen a a snail on a peony .....this plants have more or less no animals who makes trouble ...
sometime in spring I see on closed buds a hole ...I dont know which animal this makes
We have to realize that peonies are very old plants -they have survivid millions of years ....they grow in all kind of climates ( Europe ,Asia and two species in North America )
They are similar old like ferns !
....they survive in hot areas ( California )and in really cold ( p.e. P. anaomal grows in Finland )- from near 50 m altitude until 2000 m ....
From one of the oldest peonies in China is reportet that this plant is more than 600 years !
Thank you for your interesting reply, Hans, and now I come to think about it I never saw snails on peonies I grew in the UK although ants were a perennial problem - just as the buds were opening they covered them and seemed to be attracted by the stickiness of the new bud. The peony border that I loved was already at least 30 years old when I inherited it and we were in the house for another 20 years of enjoying them each year. :)
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Hans,
interesting what you mentioned about P. ostii being 'sparrig' (spare or sparce growing in English, but I think most would say upright and unbranched), as one plant I purchased some 9 years ago from Chinese exports fits this description well. I did cut it back, and it did get a better form, but still tends to be a sparce grower. It may be Fen Dan Bai. foto attached
I'm fascinated by the rose-coloured species, as well as some of the leaf forms. Often, my seedlings are showing very different leaf forms as their parents (hybrids), which gives a clue as to their heritage. Many are quite lime-green in colour, with smaller and obtuse, sometime slightly serrated, leaf forms. Others are very bornze and tend to have more lanceolate leaves.
In any case, I like having some species to show where the flowers started from, as well as finding the natural forms strangely alluring. As much as I am fascinated by a variety such as Kinkaku (Souv. de Maxime Cornu), one plant with hanging balls of petals is enough for a small garden.
As I am understanding it, we currently recognize two main species of Mouton (suffruticosa and decomposita), with many subsps and varieties. Plus the delavayi group. The two species are seperated via the degree of sheath vagination. Sound like pretty shaky grounds. Are there other points to consider?
I really appreciate you taking the time to explain this. No need to rush.
possible P. ostii or Fen Dan Bai
Kinkaku (Souvenir de Mons. Maxime Cornu, which is the actual registered name, being a European hybrid, not Japanese!))
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Robin ,
yes - I see also sometims ants on buds of perrenial peonies .....special P. lactiflora buds has sugar drops so they are attractive for this animals - but I see never any damages from them .
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Jamie ,
P. ostii is in China the cheapest peony ...they grow it for medical use ....
Yes - it is a typical sign of when you have a batch of seedling and all have different leaves ....( I would make it in the dust bin )
I have to confess I'm not a big fan of 'Souvenier de maxime Cornu' ....I like not this hanging balls ( often in the leaves ) - I have my plant given away before some time - it is waste of room ( for me )
If you like to know more for species treepeonies so I can suggest you two books :
'Strauchpfingstrosen' von Irmtraud Rieck
'Treepeonies' from Lupo Osti
there are descripet all your questions ....
After Hong Tao is it following :
Paeoniaceae
Moutan ----------- Onaepia-----------Paeon
I
Vaginate------------Delavayanae
I I
I P. delavay --------P .ludlowii
I I
I
I
I
P. ostii -P. jishanensis-P.qiui-P.yananensis-P. baokagensis-P.ridley-P.rockii-P.decomposita
I
P. r.ssp.linyanshanii
He not accept P. suffruticosa ....he think it is a hybrid ....
I hope it is clear now
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Lesley :
please look here :
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2361.0
I do remember this but perhaps it was the exchange part that put me off asking as I suspect I have little that you would like. Was it you who wanted Gentiana depressa? There was none this year but as soon as there is, you shall have it and it does germinate well.
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Lesley ,
I was always thinking when I made a offer with exchange seeds so everybody who is interestet can wrote me a PM and ask - until now I have always found a way ....
No - I do not collect any Gentiana .....
Hans
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Lesley ,
I was always thinking when I made a offer with exchange seeds so everybody who is interestet can wrote me a PM and ask - until now I have always found a way ....
No - I do not collect any Gentiana .....
Hans
In that case I have forgotten who wanted the Gentiana depressa seed. I hope whoever it is will see this and remind me. My usual system of making a note has fallen down. :'(
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How does everyone germinate their tree peonie seeds? Do you wait the two springs by planting them in the ground/pots?
The past two winters I have been starting them indoors, have had excellent results.
Two pictures are seedlings that I started Nov 26, 2008. Under 6 months from soaking the seed in Nov to having a leaf shoot in May.
.
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Guff - I find that they seed themselves around without any help. ;)
Eric
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Yes, but starting indoors would take 1.5 years off of the germinating time and growing a leaf. I tried planting seeds right in the ground before and it took two springs to see a leaf. I had read in one of my peony books the first spring they just make a root, then the following spring they will put up a leaf.
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Guff, I think it may depend on the freshness of the seed. I have grown P.rockii and P.lutea from seed, which germinated not long after it was sown, and the P.rockii flowered 4 years after sowing. Unless you have lots of spare time on your hands why make more work? ;)
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My experience mirrors Simons. If I sow seed directly as they are ripe, they will germinate over the Winter and have their first leaves in the Spring. They require a warm, moist period, followed by a cool period, then they show above the ground. Apparently the germination actually starts during the warm period. I often find fallen seeds germinating around the garden in Spring. Once a seed has dried, it will require a good soak to bring it into form. This has the advantage that the dried seed can be kept over years and then germinated.
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Interesting. Do you soak the seeds before putting them in the ground? Do you make sure the soil stays moist? Are the seeds golden or black in color? Maybe I'm waiting to long collecting them? I wait till they turn black.
Reason for the extra work, I have never had any put up a leaf in one spring after planting in the ground. It has always taken two springs, to see a leaf shoot.
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Why not try both methods? Sow some seeds in pots when ripe- I always thought this was when they turned black after the pods split- water the pots and leave them. Also sow some using your usual method. In the wild here I suppose Paeony seed will fall on dry gound over summer. If it is lucky it will find a hole or a crack in the soil to fall into. They will then get watered in well over the autumn before winter comes and covers them with snow- this also prevents them from freezing. In spring they get snow melt and then rain and I guess this is when they would normally germinate. Our job as gardeners is to try and mirror this in our gardens.
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I keep the seeds moist throughout the Summer, sometimes they are even wet for a few days to weeks, depending on weather. Drying seems to delay germination. As to the colour, as long as the pod is opening, it doesn't seem to matter. I plant them regardless of ripeness. I have even planted almost white seed with germination. The colour has little to do with the fertility of the seed, but darker seeds that have fully ripened are believed to have more germination inhibitors. You may want to treat them like delayed hypogeal lilium seed. Put them in a bag or jar with moist peat/vermiculite/perlite and leave them at room temperature. Check them every so often to see how they are.
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I think I am a bit lazier. I am a put the seed in a pot and see what happens kind of person.
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I think I am a bit lazier. I am a put the seed in a pot and see what happens kind of person.
Simon,
I didn't say I sat by them over the Summer and talked to them! :-\ :-\ I just keep an eye on what is happening and then conect it to success or failure. I've been at this a few years, now. :-X :-X ::)
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Flowering this week for me - Paeonia potaninii
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Dave,
I love P. potanini. Someone I know who used to live here in Canberra had it (took it with her when she left, not surprising). Such an interesting colour. Small flowers, but I just loved them. Thanks for the reminder. 8)
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Lol Jamie, I still think I am a bit lazier ;)
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Dave, your Paeonia potaninii almost looks as if it is waxy, are the petals stiff? The way the flower faces side on rather than upwards reminds me of a Dahlia head - I love the unusual colour combination, can we see more of the tree peony in situ?
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Here is a seedling opening up for the first time. Nice colour and good medium size. Definitely involving a delavayi seedling as seed parent, but the pollen I have no idea.
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I bet any florists or flower arrangers looking at these full, feminine, paeony blooms, especially these apricot coloured ones, will be thinking that these flowers would be a gift to their art. 8) :D
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Maggi ,
It is not nesscary to bet longer - look here :
http://www.flowercards.de/
this is Josh Westrich -he is a excellent photograf ( he works also on the book of L.Osti 'treepeonies' )
I have bougth there is last year a very nice calendar for my mother with beautiful pics of peonies
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Oh, yes, a nice link to that site , Hans. Very lovely images. thanks!
there is a most interesting video, with superb images and an explanation about why Josh Westrich prefers to photograph the flowers against a white background and how he goes about this. If you have any German at all, I recommend you watch.... if you have no German, just watch the video anyway, you'll enjoy it!
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http://www.flowercards.de/
The second of the snowdrop pictures is one to get the Galantho-nuts excited ::)
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But then, it takes so little Diane. ;D A bi-generic hybrid perhaps between a snowdrop and N. cyclamineus ??? 8) :-\
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Hi Hans J,
Sorry for the late reaction. I have been travelling to see gardens/peonies of friends amongst others in Germany. Yes we have met in Kolkwitz and perhaps other meetings of the Staudengruppe.
From my own collection I have added some more pics of tree peonies. The peonies are called:
Ariadne
Hephestos
Nike
Regent
Roman Gold
Vesuvian
Zephyrus
These pictures show the achievements of 2 people: A.P. Saunders and Nassos Daphnis, who have been very important for the creation of tree peonies with totally new colour combinations compared to the traditional japanese and chinese forms.
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No problem André .....
what a small world ;)
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Beautiful. I love the shading of Zephyrus. Great pics. 8)
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The deep wine/maroon centre and opulent flounces of the petals of Zephyrus are my favourite too :)
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Andre,
A wonderful selection, beautiful blooms. I am especially taken with Romangold and Zephyrus.
Paddy
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The last one(seedling of mine)isn't a true tree peony, but I believe it's a cross of one. It dies back to the ground each year.
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Beautiful, Guff.
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They really know how to show off their ruffles ;) A sumptuous collection Guff, thanks...
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Paul, Robin, thanks.
Both pictures are of the same flower, couldn't decide which was better. This tree peony has flowers that hang down.
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Guff,
Looks to me like Kinshe, or Souvenir de Maxim Cornu (my understanding is that they're very similar, but I don't know the exact differences). Yours is exactly like one that I have, which I bought as Kinshe, but was told is actually Souvenir de Maxim Cornu. I think I have the spellings right, but am quite happy to be corrected, both on spelling and on names. ;D
A couple of yours previous ones I recognise as well, but would have to do looking for names. Hopefully Hans or someone else can provide you with some names if you are wanting them. I particularly like that lovely strong pink in the first couple of pics you posted above.
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Ypu're right Paul, looks exactly like 'Souvenir de Maxime Cornu'. 'Kinshi' is more yellow, but if you were thinking of 'Kinkaku' then that's just a synonym for 'Maxime'.
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Paul, Guff, et al,
Chromatella (Kinshi) and Souvenir de Maxime Cornu (Kinkaku) are similar plants, as Chromatella is a sport of Souv. de Maxime Cornu. The japanese names were added for marketing purposes, as these are European cultivars. I have wondered if the sport actually occured outside of Europe, but have yet to find a reference.
The main difference is that Chromatella does not have the strong golden-orange edging on the tepals and is simply a lemony yellow. Both have hanging blossoms with a strangely exotic scent, which you either appreciate...or not. I find it a fascinating combination of notes.
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Could TreePeony4.jpg be 'Kamatanishiki'?
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Arisaema and Jamie,
Thanks for the clarification. I thought that Kinshi also had red edging..... otherwise why do they seem to be mixed up so much?
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Paul,
I've wondered this myself, as the plant of Kinshi I know is quite clearly yellow, with a faint touch of an edge, while Kinkaku has a strong golden tone with reddish edge. It may be that Kinshi tends to revert back or partially and many of the plants now being used for propogation are no longer true to type. I really don't know. :P
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Hi ,
after my books is :
Alice Harding = Kinkou
Cromatella = Kinshi
La Loirraine = Kinyou
L'Esperance = Kintei
'SOuvenir de Prof. Maxime Cornu = Kinkaku
The japan nurseries have not breed self any yellow treepeonies ....but they gave this breedings from other countries japanese names ....
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Thanks everyone for the id's. The flowers on this tree peony also hang down, it's a smaller sized flower then the above one.
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Guff,
that looks like Chromatella/Kinshi. Did it come with a name?
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Guff,
My the above descriptions that would definitely be the Kinshi/Chromatella. You can see the resemblance, but I still wouldn't be confusing them myself if I saw either of them in those colours. I guess it is just slackness on the part of nurserymen somewhere that started the mess up, then have perpetuated it. Fascinating to see them "together" like this, so that we can really see the difference.
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This is P. delavayi, I believe. Certainly, it was grown from seed under that name. Any comments? It strikes me as quite dark.
Paddy
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My P. delavayi are all very dark, inky blood red as in your photo, Paddy.
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OK, thanks, Maggi. I didn't realise they were so dark. Thought they were more blood red.
Paddy
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They can vary quite a bit Paddy. I think the dark ones are the best - really dramatic. Then there are the bronzy forms but they have lutea blood in them as well. Straight delavayi should be heavily fragrant.
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Lesley,
I'm afraid it's too late to try the fragrance now as the flowers are gone. Personally, I stongly dislike the bronze coloured ones, neither here nor there.
Paddy
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Great colour, Paddy. Very, very nice.
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'Old blood' red rather than 'fresh blood' red, Paddy ;D :-X
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Sorry, don't have any names/tags.
Took another picture of each, they are more opened now. First one alittle faded been open for a few days now.
So the first one would be Souvenir de Maxime Cornu(Kinkaku) and the second picture Chromatella(Kinshi)? Thanks for the id's. Are these forms rare with the flowers hanging down, and or very old? I have never had any seeds on either of these.
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Guff,
nice to see the cultivars next to each other!
Hanging cultivars are not rare and many of the very old chinese cultivars have these massive, pendant balls of petals, but they are not overly popular in the West. These two owe the habit to their parent P. lutea (ludlowii), which has semi-pendant blossoms of yellow. I keep my plant well trained in an upright in order to better see the massive blossoms.
Attached is a shot of mine.
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I have no idea of what peony it is. I bought it as a double white. Anyway it is nice.
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I have no idea of what peony it is. I bought it as a double white. Anyway it is nice.
That's P. ostii 'Fen Dan Bai' :)
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Many thanks!
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You are right Oleg, it is VERY nice. :)
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I have read that you like Paeonia qiui,
Here is a picture made this spring of my plant. :)
Best regards Lukas
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So this one is the last to let you impatient wait for the next spring! ;-)
Well I really do! :-) But first comes the new planting time. I hope you have all acquired new treasures? :-)
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Experiment time. Collected some seed today, and planted them in the ground. I will make sure to keep the soil damp. It will be interesting to see if a leaf shoot appears in the spring or not.
'
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Guff sometimes it takes two years to get the leaf with the first going to make a root.
People sometimes play with cold to have the year go quicker but if one sow every year that is not needed.
I have had mixed success with mine but have had slugs damage them at an early age.
Best of luck! You may get a peony border after a couple of years? 8) :o
Keep us posted on Your result.
Kind regards
Joakim
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Joakim, it has also taken me two springs to see the leaf shoot above ground if planted outside. A few pages back a couple members say if planted fresh they will have a leaf in the spring. I have always waited until they turned black before planting, so that may be the reason why it takes me two springs. We will see come spring.
I have been starting them indoors, and that does work great 90% germinate. I could use that method now, high heat/moisture, and then plant out in a month. Think I'm going to try 10, after 30 days planted in the ground.
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Joakim, I'm making some progress on my tree peony hedge. They are spaced 2ft, I suppose 3ft would have been better. I can always dig and move them at some point if it gets too overcrowded. I figured some may not make it anyways, time will tell. Another 50 seedlings to plant........Only room for another 8 seedlings at the top of this bank, so I will have to find some more spots.
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Guff looking good :o 8)
Do You have them sorted by the colour of the seed parent or will it be a lovely mix?
Be aware that some do get roots that go very deep so be carefull when digging any up.
Where will the rest of the plants end up?
Hope You will show the progress later.
Kind regards
Joakim
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Joakim , mixed colors.
I did lose some during the winter. I have more seedlings started to replace them.
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Andre / Guff
Really beautiful - thanks for sharing these. An overnight thunderstorm wrecked the open buds of most of mine but a handful lived on ..
- Lois Elaine Laning (Dbl var. but showing as semi-double after moving - very rare but with one of the best overall foliage / carriage of any of my TPs when in full growth)
- Waucedah Princess (smaller bud also not showing fully double but I think I like it better this way - colour reminds me of a bygone era)
- Zephyrus (fully faded and about to fall :()
- Hephaestos - think I like this red the best overall for plant and flower (until the next favourite arrives !!)