Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Bulbs => Crocus => Topic started by: Guff on April 02, 2009, 04:06:21 AM

Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Guff on April 02, 2009, 04:06:21 AM
Spring Beauty, seems the whole form/lot are virused? Why do they sell them?


Crocus are early this year, some odds and ends pictures. Should have some better pictures later in the week, my brother is stopping over to take some.

Uklin Strain, pictures 1/2     Clumping up from my two original corms.

Vernus Graecus picture 3    These are clumping up fast as well.

Crocus tommasianus picture 4   Not sure which form, but this one sets seed. I had removed some anthers to cross with.

Crocus on my dog's grave picture 5
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Maggi Young on April 02, 2009, 11:39:16 AM
You must be pleased with the way they are clumping up, Guff. The C. vernus 'Yalta' are lovely.
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: udo on April 02, 2009, 07:32:10 PM
Guff,

your Cr.vernus f.graecus is Cr.vernus ''Yalta''.
Cr. ''Spring Beauty'' is offered from several traders.
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Maggi Young on April 02, 2009, 09:58:04 PM
In the driveway today....  Dutch Crocus seedlings (from Pickwick), Erythronium and Fritillaria meleagris

[attach=1]
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Guff on April 02, 2009, 10:05:07 PM
Maggi, thanks. This year they have pollen and so does Uklin Strain, both didn't have any last spring. Could someone post a picture of graecus, thanks.

Have some better pictures to post.

Picture 1     ''Yalta''
Picture 2/3   Pictus, very nice.
Picture 4/5   Tatra Shades
Picture 6      Uklin Strain
Picture 7      Small bank with crocus
Picture 8      Holding bed
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Armin on April 02, 2009, 10:49:07 PM
I love crocus - super pictures from everybody.

Dirk,
it is a pity for your "Spring Beauty". My ones show noses since weeks but I'm afraid growth stopped due roots rotting?


Crocus blossom is almost over in my lawn. 2009 flowering time was quite short due strong frosts in February/March. End of March had plenty of rain and hail. Many flowers fell over :'(

Here are my late developers...
 C. vernus ssp albiflorus
 C. vernus ssp albiflorus -close-
 C. vernus ssp albiflorus
 C. tommasianus Whitewell Purple (dark stem version)
 C. ancyrensis


Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Armin on April 02, 2009, 10:52:10 PM
more...
 C. vernus Pickwick
 C. versicolor
 C. corsicus
 C. chrysanthus mix -Romance + Ard Schenk-

Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: tonyg on April 02, 2009, 10:55:53 PM
That is a fine clump of Crocus versicolor and I like the colour combination of soft yellow and white.
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Armin on April 02, 2009, 11:10:16 PM
Tony,
I like the color combination too ;D

The C. versicolor are new plantings from last Nov. The 5 corms were very large sized ea looked like a "Yellow Mammoth" Ø 3.5cm.
I thought it was a wrong delivery :-\...but fortunately not. :)
The weather is currently sunny so I hope they will set seed...
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Guff on April 02, 2009, 11:19:42 PM
Carpathian Wonder and Pictus. This first flower on Carpathian Wonder is damaged, my guess by sudden ground freeze. Hopefully the one just popping up looks better. It may also be stunted from being out of the ground way too long last fall, the flower is small in size.
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Maggi Young on April 02, 2009, 11:28:50 PM
Suddenly dawned on me that the last few posts were made in April, so I've split them to a new thread  :D
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Guff on April 03, 2009, 04:14:36 PM
Second flower on Carpathian Wonder turned out very nice.

Picture 1/2/3   Carpathian Wonder
Picture 4/5      Pictus, outside markings are super.
Picture 6/7      Tatra Shades
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Paul T on April 03, 2009, 10:43:06 PM
Great pics everyone.  Love that pictus and the tatra shades.
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: johanneshoeller on April 04, 2009, 07:14:16 AM
Some Crocus from my garden. No extraordinary plants for the experts, but I am so happy to can grow those. And it is the first food for the bees. Sorry I always have a problem with the names. I see tricolor, tomm. albus, fleischeri, chrisanthus hybr.,...
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: johanneshoeller on April 04, 2009, 08:09:35 AM
Crocus malyi, Colch. hungaricum, Crocus vernus Südtirol.
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Guff on April 05, 2009, 02:09:28 AM
These two I'm not too sure about, are they virused? The tips on the flower buds looked damaged as they were coming up. Maybe another flower will grow. It's too bad if the heuffelianus is virused, it's a nice shade.

Picture 1    Heuffelianus
Picture 2    Etruscus 'Rosalind

Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: udo on April 05, 2009, 08:05:01 PM
few from my last Crocus for this spring:
Cr.olivieri ssp.olivieri
 ''  veluchensis, pale form
 ''  scardicus
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on April 06, 2009, 06:46:57 AM
These two I'm not too sure about, are they virused? The tips on the flower buds looked damaged as they were coming up. Maybe another flower will grow. It's too bad if the heuffelianus is virused, it's a nice shade.

Picture 1    Heuffelianus
Picture 2    Etruscus 'Rosalind


Plant on right side 100% virus, left very suspicious for irregular markings at tips, not normally for healthy plant.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on April 06, 2009, 10:16:00 AM
Oh, just started spring here. Although still there are snow and all is so damp that impossible to walk between nursery beds. The first started to bloom Uschak Orange, a day later C. korolkowii. Yesterday C. abantensis showed noses out of soil and surprisingly early came out first flower of C. sieberi 'Michael Hoog's Memory'.
In greenhouse the latest crocuses started blooming - C. pelistericus (scardicus just showed only noses) and minimus. Nice surprise between seedlings of C. cvijicii Cream of Creams - between light creamy one purest white came up.
But there are bad news, too. During winter I lost at least 2 Crocus species - 5 different stocks of C. laevigatus and 3 stocks of C. caspius. I think the3y were lost at start of winter when pots were without winter cover. Temperature suddenly dropped to minus 20 C at Saturday and Sunday but I was ill (few days before hospital with surgical treatment) and got helpers only on Monday when holidays ended. I hope that there will no one more be added to this list. Sometimes it is not easy to find winters damage especially on species wintering with leaves. Not well looks C. adanensis and several samples of antalyensis, too.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Paul T on April 06, 2009, 10:29:41 AM
Janis,

That civijicii alba is excellent.  I love that species, but great to see a white/cream form.  Beautiful.
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Guff on April 06, 2009, 06:31:35 PM
Janis, thanks.

I bought three of these. Does pollen transfer the virus, the bees were all over them. Also should I just pull these out now? Or should I wait to see if atleast I get some seed?

Heres another picture with all three plants.
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Guff on April 06, 2009, 06:38:06 PM
This plant I found in my lot of Twilight's last spring, only one out of the bunch that had pollen. I really like this one with the wide silver edge.
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Guff on April 06, 2009, 07:25:06 PM
Paul, heres a better picture of Tatra Shades.

Picture 1    Tatra Shades

Picture 2    Carpathian Wonder, this is my favorite. I did remove the anthers to use the pollen.

Picture 3/4/5  Wildlife or Darkeyes?
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Guff on April 06, 2009, 09:03:05 PM
Picture 1/2    Vernus Haarlem Gem

Picture 3       Tommasinianus Albus
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on April 07, 2009, 07:10:59 AM
Janis, thanks.

I bought three of these. Does pollen transfer the virus, the bees were all over them. Also should I just pull these out now? Or should I wait to see if atleast I get some seed?

Heres another picture with all three plants.

I suppose all three are infected - the first from right something doubtful, but for safety... I think you must destroy them all as as soon as possible. Janis
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on April 07, 2009, 07:11:46 AM
Paul, heres a better picture of Tatra Shades.

Picture 1    Tatra Shades

Picture 2    Carpathian Wonder, this is my favorite. I did remove the anthers to use the pollen.

Picture 3/4/5  Wildlife or Darkeyes?

Wildlife! (3/4/5)
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Boyed on April 07, 2009, 07:22:24 AM
Guf,

It's true, your all three cr. heuffelianus samples look virus infected. The deformation of flowers is obvious.

Relating crocus vernus 'Twilight', if it is obtained from John Scheepers, it could be heavily infected with virus mosaic of leaves. My all stock of this variety from this company was heavily infected. I advise you to inspect the leaves.

Pollen doesn't contain virus, virus is in the juice. The bees don't transfer the virus if they do their work accurately. But in many cases they make damages (cracks, etc) by their legs when collecting the pollen and virus transfers into the plant.
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Guff on April 07, 2009, 09:02:20 PM
Janis, thanks for the help and ID on Wildlife. I will pull them and toss them out Thursday, winter has returned and the ground is frozen.

Boyed, thanks for the info on the pollen. Was alittle worried about the other crocus in the small bed would/might be virused next spring. I will make sure to look close next spring just in case.

Yes, the Twilight's did come from Scheepers, I will look Thursday. Is there two different types of viruses, one leaf, other damages the flower, or are both the same? I don't think I could destroy the Twilight(it's too nice) Will replant far away from my others.
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Boyed on April 08, 2009, 06:13:50 AM
Guff,

We discussed crocus virus in previous crocus threads.
Here I will summerise for you. There are different types of virus deceases affecting crocus. The most commons are:
1. rattle virus - flowers are deformed, some bloooms look as if they polished, leaves look healthy;
2. colour-breaking virus - flowers are not deformed, but get irregular stripes, leaves look healthy;
3. leafe mosaic - flowers look perfect without any signs of decease, but leaves get irregular lighter stripes;
4. combined virus - combination of rattle of colour breaking virus together with leafe mosaic.

Crocus vernus 'Twilight' is infected with 3-rd type, which is most spread among Dutch grown crocuses. Nowadays it is very difficult to find virus-free Dutch grown crocus vernus.

'Twilight' is indeed, very beautiful. I didn't want to trash it, but did it. I recommend to replant your stock of it far from your other crocuses and later try to collect seeds and grow seedlings. I am sure many of the seedlings will resemble mother plant.
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: johanneshoeller on April 09, 2009, 11:44:27 AM
The snow is melting here and the ice of the lake will soon be brocken. The first Crocus vernus are coming today.
Some are blue, but most are white and all are very tiny.
I have seen only a few dark blue Crocus in common with the C. vernus, but they are much taller. What could it be (maybe a garden form.
The last photo shows Crocus neapolitanus in my garden.
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: tonyg on April 09, 2009, 12:09:36 PM
Fantastic to see them flowering in nature -thank you!!
Crocus vernus in the broadest sense is very variable.  I love the tiny ones and C napolitanus is a favourite.  You are the best judge of whether the larger blue one is a garden escape .... if it grows on the mountains, far from man then it is likely wild, if near a house or where people once lived then ?maybe garden form.
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: ranunculus on April 09, 2009, 12:24:31 PM
Spring is arriving for you, Hans and the threat of avalanches is receding ... enjoy the onset of spring my friend and the glorious summer that will surely follow.
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Guff on April 10, 2009, 11:59:38 PM
Boyed, thanks for the info.

I did look at the Twilight(but not Twilight plant). I don't see any bad/lighter stripes about the leaves though. Will have a closer look at the other Twilight's tomorrow, maybe I can see the leaf mosaic.

Picture 1 vernus ssp. albiflorus?
Picture 2/3 Michael's Purple?   I did some color edit to this, first is the camera image, second is (about) the color I see.
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on April 12, 2009, 05:23:19 PM
Crocuses bloom here outside for some days but in greenhouse only C. minimus left.
Here last selection marked only yesterday - C. korolkowii seedling with almost orange flowers. Hope it will increase.
Another - Crocus offered on trade as angustifolius Bronze form - of course it isn't angustifolius, most possibly hybrid with it.
And as last virus infected heuffelianus on old field where most of bulbs are eaten by rodents. It looks that they don't liked infected buld as I. Nice would be tame them just and only for infected bulbs...
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: udo on April 17, 2009, 01:05:38 PM
My last Crocus for this spring,
Crocus minimus from Col de Bavella, Corsica
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Guff on April 17, 2009, 04:53:00 PM
Janis, I was wondering or anyone else. As the flowers flop down and lay against other leaves of other plants could this then transfer a virus, if said plants were infected?

Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Guff on April 17, 2009, 06:40:24 PM
Twilight

This year all the Twilight's have pollen, maybe I will get some seed.
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Oron Peri on April 17, 2009, 07:07:20 PM
My last Crocus for this spring,
Crocus minimus from Col de Bavella, Corsica

Udo,

Does this species  blooms for you always at this time of the year?

It seems that the commercial strain, which is a common one blooms much earlier, at the same time as C. corsicus. Any way yours looks different to that.

I really wonder about these two species ???
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: tonyg on April 17, 2009, 11:36:01 PM
My last Crocus for this spring,
Crocus minimus from Col de Bavella, Corsica
Udo,
Does this species  blooms for you always at this time of the year?
It seems that the commercial strain, which is a common one blooms much earlier, at the same time as C. corsicus. Any way yours looks different to that.
I really wonder about these two species ???
'Bavella' is also the last to flower here, after trade minimus and corsicus.  I would like to see them in the wild, preferably over the growing season rather than on a 'flying visit', I think this might help enlighten us about these two/this one species in Corsica. :-\
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Sinchets on April 18, 2009, 09:49:54 AM
These pics have been posted in a travelogue elsewhere, but for the Croconuts here's Crocus veluchensis in the wild.
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Paul T on April 18, 2009, 12:28:55 PM
That last shot really is quite amazing.  The thought of seeing something like that in the wild just blows my mind.  :o
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Sinchets on April 18, 2009, 12:57:45 PM
That's exactly what it did for us, Paul. There were sheets of them in the woods lower down the slope, but seeing them near the melting snow, with the blue sky above, just made it one of those perfect days.
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Otto Fauser on April 18, 2009, 02:47:22 PM
Can't express my thoughts any better than Paul has done ,also the stunning Erythronium d. -c. with entire purple leaves !
 The Crocus meadow reminds me of a meadow here in Victoria many years ago -a sea of yellow :our native terrestrial Donkey Orchid =Diuris longifolia in bloom.
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Sinchets on April 18, 2009, 03:06:04 PM
Otto- I'm holding the smelling salts under Chris' nose. Do the Diuris still grow like that?
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Armin on April 18, 2009, 08:28:03 PM
Simon,
simply superb crocus carpet. :o :o
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Otto Fauser on April 19, 2009, 08:11:10 AM
Otto- I'm holding the smelling salts under Chris' nose. Do the Diuris still grow like that?
Sorry Simon, sadly for every nature lover, this field is now covered by a housing estate - such is  "progress" !
Title: Re: Crocus April 2009
Post by: Sinchets on April 19, 2009, 11:14:29 AM
Sadly entry to the EU 2 years ago is starting changes in agricultural practices here, which will lead to similar 'progress'
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