Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Plant Identification => Plant Identification Questions and Answers => Topic started by: WimB on March 27, 2009, 10:30:11 AM

Title: Which bulb is this?
Post by: WimB on March 27, 2009, 10:30:11 AM

Could anyone tell me what's the name of this small bulb?

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: Tony Willis on March 27, 2009, 11:44:36 PM

it looks like Scilla bythinica

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: WimB on March 28, 2009, 07:09:49 AM

Hi Tony,

it could be Scilla bythinica but the person I got it from was quite sure it isn't a Scilla but it's in the same family. I really have no clue...

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: Paul T on March 28, 2009, 08:19:20 AM

I don't grow that species, but I would certainly have thought it was a Scilla.  Then again there are a couple of things that used to be in other genus that are now becoming Scillas as well aren't there?  Maybe they knew it under an old name and it is now a Scilla?

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: WimB on March 28, 2009, 10:41:30 AM

Yes,

the first time I saw it I thought it was a Scilla too but I don't know enough about that genus to be sure. I'll plant it out with a label: "Scilla????"  ;)

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: mark smyth on March 28, 2009, 12:06:37 PM

I would like to tag on to this query.

Can anyone ID these two bulbs that are flowering now?

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: Tiggrx on March 28, 2009, 08:08:28 PM

Quote from: mark smyth on March 28, 2009, 12:06:37 PM

I would like to tag on to this query.

Can anyone ID these two bulbs that are flowering now?

Mark,
wondered if the first could be Hyacinthoides italica, if so it would have two bracts per flower. I think from the picture that there is only one bract, but it might be worth looking into.

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: Paul T on March 28, 2009, 10:30:12 PM

Mark,

Could the second one be Muscari armenaicum neglectum?  I think I have the right species name there.  It certainly looks to be a Muscari or something closely related anyway.

Added a bit later : Thought about it some more and corrected my name.  The more I thought about it the more I thought the armenaicum was wrong.  The neglectum might still be incorrect, but it is the name I was "trying" to think of in the first place.  ::)

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: mark smyth on March 29, 2009, 06:48:14 AM

Thanks Paul. I'll look it up later. It's a big plant so I should take measurements later. After many years it hasnt increased from the original two bulbs. It's almost black to the eye

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: Oron Peri on March 29, 2009, 05:28:31 PM

Hi Mark

I agree with Paul that it is Muscari neglectum.
Regarding the Scilla it looks to me like S. verna also for the fact that it has a single showy bract.

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: mark smyth on March 29, 2009, 06:01:45 PM

Thanks Oron.

Can Muscari be chipped like Galanthus and Narcissus?

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: Oron Peri on March 29, 2009, 06:12:31 PM

Mark, usually i don't take this risk if i have only one or two bulbs.

Often i leave 90% of the bulb out of the soil or lay it on the side,  in most cases it stimulates the mother bulb to produce many new bulblets.

In some species if you just plant it close to the surface it gives the same result.

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: mark smyth on March 29, 2009, 06:20:38 PM

thanks

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: WimB on March 30, 2009, 03:32:01 PM

The person I got this bulb from tells me it is a Ledebouria?

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: Maggi Young on March 30, 2009, 03:53:00 PM

Quote from: WimB on March 30, 2009, 03:32:01 PM

The person I got this bulb from tells me it is a Ledebouria?

I would think the leaves very much suggest a Scilla rather than any Ledebouria, Wim.

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: Oron Peri on March 30, 2009, 05:15:52 PM

Wim,

It is probably Scilla italica, but to give 100% ID you need to tell the height of the inflorescence, size of flower and the most important the number of bracts at the base of the flower since it isn't clear from the photo...

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: Maggi Young on March 30, 2009, 05:49:18 PM

 It is easily seen with the queries here and in the Scilla and Muscari pages that the RHS had the right idea when they called their trial of such plants in 2005 their "Trial of Hyacinthaceae – little blue bulbs"
http://apps.rhs.org.uk/planttrials/TrialReports/Hyacinthaceae%20hardy%202003.pdf (http://apps.rhs.org.uk/planttrials/TrialReports/Hyacinthaceae%20hardy%202003.pdf)
https://www.rhs.org.uk/Plants/PDFs/Plant-trials-and-awards/Plant-bulletins/hyacinthaceae (https://www.rhs.org.uk/Plants/PDFs/Plant-trials-and-awards/Plant-bulletins/hyacinthaceae)


"In addition to the desire to
raise the profile of this interesting group
of ‘little blue bulbs’, they considered that
a comparative trial might shed light on
some of the problems associated with the
identification and naming of certain
species and forms of hardy
Hyacinthaceae."   

 ;D 8)

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: WimB on March 30, 2009, 05:56:51 PM

Oron,

since I'm not at home for the moment I can't measure the flowers. I'll post it on Friday.

Thanks

Wim

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: Oron Peri on March 30, 2009, 05:58:41 PM

Thanks Maggi, now I'm confused regarding the accepted name...Scilla italica or Hyacinthoides italica ???

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: Maggi Young on March 30, 2009, 06:09:18 PM

Quote from: Oron Peri on March 30, 2009, 05:58:41 PM

Thanks Maggi, now I'm confused regarding the accepted name...Scilla italica or Hyacinthoides italica ???

 Diane Clement may see this and be able to advise...... for my part, I'm just pleased I can tell they are blue!  ;D

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: mark smyth on March 30, 2009, 06:46:57 PM

Tiggr and Oron I had a look today and there are two bracts. One is small and one is large. Does this make it Hyacinthoides italica?

It's very congested and really needs divided. When can I do it?

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: WimB on March 30, 2009, 06:47:25 PM

Oops Maggi,

didn't see that link there. I'll use the description there to see if it is Hyacinthoides/Scilla/Endymion italica. Thanks for the link. If it is that species I'll label it "?? italica"  ;)

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: mark smyth on March 30, 2009, 06:50:16 PM

I sacrificed two flowering stems for this ID question ::) I had another look at the plants and I see that the bracts are much easily seen when the flowers are fully developed and past their best. Some have three bracts.

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: Oron Peri on March 30, 2009, 07:03:22 PM

Mark

It is H. italica,  you can see clearly the two bracts.

Best time to divide it would be probably late summer [August], before it starts its new growing season.

Great Photo, thanks

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: Gunilla on March 30, 2009, 07:19:02 PM

Hyacinthoides italica is a common spring flower in old gardens here. The bulbs multiply very fast and are almost weedy.   A beautiful weed though, with a sweet scent.   Blooms late april here after the early bulbs.

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: Diane Clement on March 30, 2009, 07:27:04 PM

Quote from: Maggi Young on March 30, 2009, 06:09:18 PM

Quote from: Oron Peri on March 30, 2009, 05:58:41 PM

Thanks Maggi, now I'm confused regarding the accepted name...Scilla italica or Hyacinthoides italica ???

Diane Clement may see this and be able to advise...... for my part, I'm just pleased I can tell they are blue!  ;D

She did see, and will try.  According to Kew and the Plantfinder, it's Hyacinthoides italica (for the time being ;D  )
(and also according to Kew, in the family Asparagaceae - will we ever get used to that  :o )

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: Maggi Young on March 30, 2009, 07:43:19 PM

Quote from: Diane Clement on March 30, 2009, 07:27:04 PM

She did see, and will try.  According to Kew and the Plantfinder, it's Hyacinthoides italica (for the time being ;D  )
(and also according to Kew, in the family Asparagaceae - will we ever get used to that  :o )

You little Star, you!  :-*


I'm not able to cope with  the change to Asparagaceae ...... I won't be cooking any hyacinths any time soon :P

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: mark smyth on March 30, 2009, 08:02:22 PM

The flower heads on mine have never been as dense as your Gunilla!

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: Oron Peri on March 31, 2009, 07:08:28 AM

Thank you Diane,

Probably by the time we will get used to the new name it will be changed to another one.... ;) ;D

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: Gunilla on March 31, 2009, 07:19:03 AM

Mark, they seem to like the clay soil we have.  When we moved to this place 27 years ago the garden was completely overrun with weeds but Hyacinthoides italica and H. hispanica flowered everywhere.

Title: Re: Which bulb is this?
Post by: WimB on April 03, 2009, 10:51:52 AM

It is Hyacinthoides italica indeed, thanks everybody.