Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: Jim McKenney on March 16, 2009, 11:33:44 PM
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Gymnospermium altaicum is blooming here in my zone 7, Maryland, USA garden today. Although they are not related to Corydalis, their overall habit reminds me of some of them, and I grow this species as I do some members of that genus.
These plants are not showy, but they are very interesting. Last year, a friend saw my plant when it had no blooms and asked if it might be a seedling peony. Considering the botanical speculation about their relationships, that was not really such a bad guess.
In our climate these plants seem to be very averse to warm, moist soil both when they are growing and particularly when they are dormant.
Here is Gymnospermium altaicum making its flowering debut in one of my unprotected cold frames.
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Nice one, Jim.
I hope you'll show us its progress over the next few weeks.
cheers
fermi
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Jim
I posted mine in Flowers and Foliage in February no177 This is a plant that needs to be completely dry when dormant for the summer and only brought back into growth in autumn. I think it is very showy!
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Thanks, Tony and Fermi
Tony, I'll take a look at yours: I keep posting things which duplicate other postings! I'll never catch up and see everything.
Can you tell us a bit more about how you grow this plant? Last year I thought I dried it off too much, but it bounced back well when I finally began to water it again.
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Thanks, Tony and Fermi
Tony, I'll take a look at yours: I keep posting things which duplicate other postings! I'll never catch up and see everything.
Can you tell us a bit more about how you grow this plant? Last year I thought I dried it off too much, but it bounced back well when I finally began to water it again.
Jim I grow it in a 50/50 John Innes and grit compost in a clay pot plunged in sand.I keep it totally dry until repotting and start watering about mid September and dry it of again about the end of May. It has never got any bigger even though I have had it about 15 years but perhaps I under pot it and do not feed it.If you keep it to dry in spring you will send it straight into dormancy.I think it is a snowmelt plant which is then baked in summer.
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Hi to all, I am sure you know that Gymnospermium is in the Berberidacea family and sure aint hardy ouside here but a super plant for a pot. Ian the Christie kind
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This is a plant that needs to be completley dry when dormant for the summer and only brought back into growth in autumn.
Does this apply equally to G. albertii and Leontice leontopetalum?
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This is a plant that needs to be completley dry when dormant for the summer and only brought back into growth in autumn.
Does this apply equally to G. albertii and Leontice leontopetalum?
yes it does with me
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This is a plant that needs to be completley dry when dormant for the summer and only brought back into growth in autumn.
Does this apply equally to G. albertii and Leontice leontopetalum?
I had Gymnospermium altaicum and albertii growing outside in a well drained soils in the sun in Lincolnshire for 4 years. They were grown over by Micromeria and Satureja in summer- they grew and flowered through these dwarf shrubs which helped support them and keep the soil around them drier. I found them far happier than in pots, as I had grow them previously. They are also happy here outside in Bulgaria - currently flowering under snow. Leontice leontopetalum is native to Bulgaria, but we have yet to find it. I can only presume it is flowering somewhere- under snow ;)
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Hi to all, I am sure you know that Gymnospermium is in the Berberidacea family and sure aint hardy ouside here but a super plant for a pot. Ian the Christie kind
I grow both species outside, so they are hardy here in Moscow, with G. albertii being planted 15-20 sm deep and mulched. What it doesn't tolerate is wet conditions so I dig it up to store in a dry place until planting back mid September. I leave G. altaicum undisturbed in a sunny place year round. It shows its flower buds at the ground level already in autumn to be the first to flower in spring.
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This must mean that Kirremuir is not too cold for them but too wet??
I assume they could be grown in a bulb frame or similar structure that can keep them dry and cosy when dormant.
Göte
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I might remove mine from their pots then and plant them in a dry place with herby things, origanums, thymes, satureja etc. It's certainly dry there in summer.
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This must mean that Kirremuir is not too cold for them but too wet??
I assume they could be grown in a bulb frame or similar structure that can keep them dry and cosy when dormant. Göte
Yes, I grow both species in an unheated alpine house, and I think they are quite cold hardy, but they do need a completely dry summer rest.
Last year, for the first time for several years of growing it, G albertii set seed which has now germinated.
Leontice leontopetalum is from a different sort of climate and has not proved hardy here, even if kept under cover.
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Maybe the Leontice in cultivation is all L.leontopetalum ssp eversmanni. The one found here in Bulgaria is ssp leontopetalum. I can only assume this should be hardy enough, given the areas where it grows. Gymnospermium and Bongardia both set seed here, helped by a little tickling with a fine art brush ;)
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Maybe the Leontice in cultivation is all L.leontopetalum ssp eversmanni. The one found here in Bulgaria is ssp leontopetalum. I can only assume this should be hardy enough, given the areas where it grows. Gymnospermium and Bongardia both set seed here, helped by a little tickling with a fine art brush ;)
I only know Leontice and Bongardia from the Eastern Mediterranean, I didn't realise their range stretched north. I have had little success with keeping either, and always assumed it was cold winters they didn't like. Maybe they also like warm summers as well 8)
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Hi Diane. I checked my Flora Bulgarica and Leontice leontopetalum grows from sealevel to around 200m from the Thracian plains across to the sea, and again at the other side of the country in the Struma river valley. Both of these lowland areas border onto Greece, so maybe this species has moved north into an area where it is also able to grow. The Struma area is generally warmer than most parts of Bulgaria and it seems to have a very 'Greek' flora, but the Plains can be quite cold in winter, as cold air sinks down from the mountains. The Leontice is certainly on our list of plants to find, and it woud be great to have a form that is more resilient in gardens. Bongardia isn't native here, but has seemed happy so far.
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Bongardia survives winters in Moscow happily provided it is planted deep enough. But it resents summer wet so should be kept dry during dormancy.
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Gymnospermiums here just started blooming in my polytunnels. Pict G. darwasicum and altaicum is from my collection, G. albertii I hasn't digital picture, only as TIF file not usable in forum. G. odessanum got only last summer from my Ukraine friend and it now comes up. Plant under that name in Gothenburg BG really is altaicum.
The largest tuber what I have is 16 cm in diameter and it didn't fit in my largest size (15 x 15 cm pot) and it is more than 20 years old. They grew well but can be multiplied only by seeds. Most difficult are just first years when tubers are small. They are very susceptible to dry out. Even tubers of size an inch in diameter must be kept in box covered by sand. In my first garden on sandy soil they multiplied by selfssowing in open garden.
Janis
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Those are fine plants Janis. Thanks for the comments on culture conditions.
We look forward to seeing the others you mention later ;)
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Gymnospermium albertii after a night with minus 5 C inside greenhouse and minus 12 outside. Still night full of cold ahead. Fortunately killed only leaves of few Biarums.
Gymnospermium odessanum slowly comes up but from it I have small tubers got only last autumn, so spikes would not be so large.
Janis
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Janis lovely plants amd good to see. Are they self fertile,I have had mine many years and never a seed.
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Another beauty Janis; thanks. Do they take long from seed?
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I never handpollinated my Gymnospermiums and allways had at least few seeds but I don't remember - had I sometimes only one plant?
They develops quite fast, usually first flowers are on 4th seson when tuber is more than 1 cm in diameter. Most dificult to keep them alive just in first 2-3 years as they easy can overdry. Sometimes I lost all seedlings and there were periods with very few plants left. Now stocks are going up and I hope to offer in few years them again in my catalogue. Of course it looks that they didn't hybridise, I never got intermediates regardless of growing side by side.
Janis
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Janis lovely plants amd good to see. Are they self fertile,I have had mine many years and never a seed.
I've also had mine for years, and last year was the first time I got seed, don't know why, it wasn't as though it was a good summer. I sent some to the seed exchange, I sowed some and amazingly, it has germinated. Now the difficult bit ahead to get them to flowering size
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Diane following your post I have just popped out through the gale to look at mine. I am pleased to say it seems to be covered in seed pods, so I will report later if it has actually set seed.I am not sure why I want any more but just cannot resist prodding about with a paintbrush and then sowing anything that results
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Today started blooming old Gymnospermium albertii tuber. All those stems are coming from single tuber.
Janis
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I thought I would put this one here as they are related to gymnospermium. I grow it in exactly the same way
Bongardia chrysogonum
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You may have already seen the pic on our travelogue- here is Leontice leontopetalum ssp eversmannii in a field in Greece (alt. 530m, soil= solid terra rossa with signs of digging by wild boar!)
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I need some information about Gymnospermium microrrhynchum: its general description, ad some sort of phyllogeny. If any of you have some information please give me. Is Leontice microrrhynchum and Gymnospermium microrrhynchum same?
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Greetings, " bkghi", welcome to the Forum.
The RHS database only lists three Gymnospermium ........ G. albertii ( and Leontice albertii as a synonym),
G. altaicum and G. sylvaticum.......so I'm at a loss to help you, sorry.
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I need some information about Gymnospermium microrrhynchum: its general description, ad some sort of phyllogeny. If any of you have some information please give me. Is Leontice microrrhynchum and Gymnospermium microrrhynchum same?
According to IPNI (http://www.ipni.org/ipni/idPlantNameSearch.do?id=107333-1&show_history=false&output_format=normal) and this (http://www.kadel.cz/flora/g/kvCard.asp-Id=15857.htm) they're synonyms.
Otherwise as you probably know there's little information available online, other than Chinese Virtual Herbarium pictures (http://www.cvh.ac.cn/gallery/shu.asp?Genera_no=5063009) and several gene sequences.
The latter may be relevant to phylogeny but you can investigate this yourself ;)
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thank you very much for your kind reply with valuable information. :)