Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: Gerry Webster on March 15, 2009, 08:01:49 PM
-
Anemone hortensis
From JJA seed (161.003). A Tom Norman collection, May 1996, woodland, 850m, Sardinia.
-
Some wild Anemone hortensis with colour variations in the maritimes Alps, france :
(http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/11/84/35/03/img_7710.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=459&u=11843503)
(http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/11/84/35/03/img_7711.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=460&u=11843503)
(http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/11/84/35/03/img_7712.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=461&u=11843503)
(http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/11/84/35/03/img_7713.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=462&u=11843503)
-
Wow - great pics Fred! - Did not know they vary so much in colour! :o
-
Wonderful pictures Fred - plants always look so much better in their natural environment.
-
Beautiful colours and well made pics!
Gerd
-
Wonderful show Fred !!!!
Great colours !
-
Oh, Fred! Great to see this variation... a surprise to me!
-
Great photos Fred, the one with the Coral color is stunning, just think on all the seeds it is going to have soon... ;)
-
For sure oron, I'll try to come back to collect seeds.
Here is another one, Anemone coronaria, naturalized in the south of France, very.... scarlet !
(http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/11/84/35/03/img_7714.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=463&u=11843503)
(http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/11/84/35/03/img_7716.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=465&u=11843503)
-
great plants,simple and beautiful colours, not widely enough grown.
-
For sure oron, I'll try to come back to collect seeds.
What can I offer in exchange for a few seeds? :)
-
It's curious that while the florist's strains of 'Mediterranean' anemones (St Brigid, De Caen, & St Bavo) still seem available in the trade some of the others, very common a number of years ago, seem to have disappeared entirely. I'm thinking in particular of the brilliant scarlet A. fulgens (a supposed hybrid), especially in its handsome 'Multipetala' form. I would love to see this again though I never found it easy to keep.
-
Superb photographs, Fred.
-
Thank's !
Tony, please send me your adress by pm and if I have seeds, I'll send you somewith great pleasure ;)
-
Fred ,
your photos of the Anemones are superb - in composition and quality -you are number
one on the Forum [if there is someone better , please forgive ]/
Please put me on the list, should you manage to collect seed.
The promised Narc. have been posted .
Otto.
-
Otto, I'm not doing a photo contest ! ;D
A lot of forumists are taking wonderfull pictures too,
and you also can have a lok on our french frorum ;) http://plantes-passion.forumactif.fr/index.htm
Thank you and I'll keep seeds.
Fred
-
Here is flowering another littel gem, Anemone biflora, in red form, From iran
(http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/11/84/35/03/eos5dm12.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=468&u=11843503)
I try to get it from seeds too without success : no germination :'(
-
Tres chic, Fred! What a beautiful true red.
-
My word! What a colour! These colours BREATHE sunshine to me!
-
Superb Fred. Was this photographed in Iran?
-
Beautiful anemones all. I had previously thought Anemone hortensis (as 'Hortensis') was a man-made strain rather than a wild species. Pleased to see otherwise.
-
No Gerry :'(
Unfortunatly, it's cultivated in my bulb frame, but I'd prefer to catch it in Iran to take pictures in the wild :'(
-
Now here's what I call an eye-catcher Fred !! :D
And what a splendid photograph !
-
Some wild Anemone hortensis with colour variations in the maritimes Alps, france :
These flowers are amazing, they remind me of african daisies.
I had never seen them before.
-
Fred, A. biflora is a beautiful species, thanks for showing it.
Here is another red Anemone, A. pavonina from Greece, the anthers looks like tiny coffee beans.
-
Oron, I like this scarlet Anemones !
This group is quite complex to distinguish and a lot of them are very similar.
-
Fred, it is difficult to distinguish by the flower, but easy by the leaves and brachts.
Here are some interesting A. coronaria.
-
Anemone pavonina in pink and red colour forms 2 days ago in SE Bulgaria.
-
very nice forms and colors Oron and Sinchets !
-
Simon there are more surprises in that meadow: Under the pink flower there is a Romulea leaf and a Muscari in bud, while in the last one there is an Ornithogalum that seems to be O. fimbriatum...?
Fred, i hold my self tide to my chair each time you post a photo, I was wondering if your camera is from planet Earth ??? ;)
-
Hi Oron- We had been looking out for Romulea as Rr.bulbocodium and linaresi grow in this area- we didn't find any in flower, but they may have been lurking in the undergrowth. ;)
We saw Ornithogalum sibthorpii at the site previous to this, but I do not have much experience with identifying Ornithogalums. In what way does O.fimbriatum differ?
There were better stands of Muscari neglectum and botryoides elsewhere in this meadow.
-
Simon,
O. fimbriatum and O. sibthorpii are very similar, dwarf, stemless species.
There are two main differences, O. fimbriatum has hairy , grayish-green leaves with no white strip in the middle. while O. Sibthorpii has an evident white striped, hairless leaves.
-
The anemones are just starting and here are three from Greece.
-
Tony - the anemones are stunning especially the red one. This looks very like the one that used to be widely available in the trade as A. fulgens 'Annulata Grandiflora' but I haven't seen it offered for years. I lost mine a long time ago.
-
Very nice indeed Tony. Pots or garden?
-
Those are in pots but I have lots of bits of them scattered around the garden. These survive okay outside. The Turkish ones die outside.
-
Tony, wonderfull flowers, that is very interesting that they are so hardy.
Do you succeed with A. coronaria as well?
No 2&3 are Anemone pavonina, No 1 is A. hortensis [in my opinion...]Tony - the anemones are stunning especially the red one. This looks very like the one that used to be widely available in the trade as A. fulgens 'Annulata Grandiflora' but I haven't seen it offered for years. I lost mine a long time ago.
Paul, A. fulgens is a natural hybrid between the two species above, found growing in S. France and not in Greece.
-
According to Mathew, A. fulgens is thought to be a hybrid between A. hortensis & A. pavonina.
-
Just added the line up saying it is from France. But you are definitely right that it might repeat again also in Greece since both species are growing there.
-
Just added the line up saying it is from France. But you are definitely right that it might repeat again also in Greece since both species are growing there.
Oron - you beat me to it with your edit! I was just going to ask why you thought the hybrid only occurred in France given the wide distribution of the parents.
-
I collected seed of the Anemone pavonina in the Pelopennese in 1989. A large clump of it is in the garden for the past 10 years and is just re-appearing.
I have what I think is A. coronaria from SW Turkey but they are very difficult to grow even inside.They do not like my cold wet conditions
-
Anemone pavonina flowering in the garden 1year from seed. The seed was collected in The Strandja area of Bulgaria. The leaves seem more finely cut then other A.pavonina we have seen there.
-
Anemone pavonina flowering in the garden 1year from seed. The seed was collected in The Strandja area of Bulgaria. The leaves seem more finely cut then other A.pavonina we have seen there.
Simon - that seems very fast from seed! And a very nice anemone. I love all forms of the genus - such a classic, simple shape.
-
Gerry- some of them flowered while they were still in their seedpots last October and November- so yes they are very quick ;)
-
Some more anemones in flower now.All from Greece.A couple are similar to ones I posted before.
I did not know where to put this last one but it is the first Ranunculus asiaticus in flower from Cyprus.It is a nice lime green
-
one for thec woodland garden Anemone prattii. It is supposed to have a blue back to the petals but the three I have bought which I understand were raised from seed are all white.
-
Some more anemones in flower now.All from Greece.A couple are similar to ones I posted before.
I did not know where to put this last one but it is the first Ranunculus asiaticus in flower from Cyprus.It is a nice lime green
That's a beautiful collection Tony. Many thanks for sharing them with us.
-
Just caught up with this thread and Tony what a marvellous collection of anemones you have . 8) :o
-
Thank you I have been growing them over many years.I find them simple but lovely flowers
-
Few Anemones just now blooming in my greenhouse.
At first time blooms selection of A. nemoreosa maid by my Norway friend from wild material three years after Chernobil - another Chernobil child named by him 'Explosion' and as you can see can be quite variable with me.
Another trio is pictures of Central Asian Anemones. At first Anemone petiolulosa collected by me and two seedlings got from seeds which I baught from Jilek Seeds - Private Botanic garden (Czech Republic).
The yellow one came up from seeds labeled as A. tschernjajewii - looks as petiolulosa but different from mine. Hybrid? Variation?What is your opinion? A. tschernjajewii can hybridise with A. petiolulosa, I saw such in upper course of Varzob, Tadjikistan, but haven't picture and it is listed only in my notebook, without description and I really forgot how it looks (it was 30 years ago).
The seeds of white A. tschernjajewii were labeled as A. petiolulosa. But good plant.
Janis
-
Janis,
I rather like you 'Explosion', in all it's forms. ;D Quite fascinating seeing the differences. That yellow hybrid Anemone reminds me so much of some of the Clematis species. Thanks for posting them.
-
BIGRE !!
Impressive !
I've never seen such forms... Great janis
-
In my experience some of the more odd forms of Anemone nemorosa are quite variable.
I have something that I have got from various sources under various names such as
'Monstrosa' and 'Bracteata Plena' It varies from stalk to stalk and from year to year. One year one of them had a rhizom (sic!) instead of a flower.
Another one is green fingers. The amount of fingers varies from year to year and from stalk to stalk.
I have 'Blue Eyes' only it has never had any blue in the eyes but rather a slight resemblance to 'monstrosa'.
I have brought in pink specimens from our forests and als received a named pink variety. They all usually become white most of the years.
All of these are older than Chernobyl.
I am short of time so I cannot show any pictures today.
Göte
-
Janis,
the 'Explosion' is just wonderfull.
-
In my experience some of the more odd forms of Anemone nemorosa are quite variable. [snip]
I have 'Blue Eyes' only it has never had any blue in the eyes but rather a slight resemblance to 'monstrosa'.
Look at the reverse of 'Blue Eyes'; there should be blue right around the stem if it's actually Blue Eyes and not Monstrosa (aka Bracteata Plena).
-
Gote, this is what 'Blue Eyes' should be like. It opens as an ordinary double white and then the blue gradually appears as the flower gets older. Also 'Bracteata Plena' (New Zealand form as I received it). I can send you some if you like.
-
Last spring my 'Blue Eyes' had no blue either (the first flowers for me on a new plant) and I was disappointed but it gradually developed some to be very pretty.
-
Gote, this is what 'Blue Eyes' should be like. It opens as an ordinary double white and then the blue gradually appears as the flower gets older. Also 'Bracteata Plena' (New Zealand form as I received it). I can send you some if you like.
My BLUE EYES looks the same. Only fault of this variety is that flowers are too heavy and more looks down - as young lady blushing turn her blue eyes down, so the blue eye isn't so prominent. Bracteata Plena - looks just as my plants., but many stocks of Green Fingers, Phyllodic - this year forms only rosette of leaves instead of bloom. But I can judge at present by pot-grown plants only. Outside planted still didn't came up. Possibly planted a little too deep, as in forest they are blooming now on sunny roadsides.
Original picture of EXPLOSION, pictured in Norway is attached here. What a great difference! Stock is 100% true.
Janis
-
My Anemone nemorosa BRACTEATA PLENA this morning.
Janis
-
I just love the bracteata plena. I find the best thing about it is the fact that unlike the other single types it doesn't drop it's petals when the flowers finish, so it effectively "flowers" for much longer than the others. It does brilliantly here for me in pots, so I grow it near my back steps so I can enjoy it as I walk by to the back yard. I don't grow 'Blue Eyes', but have seen it in person. The blue in the centre does stand out when it is fully coloured, doesn't it. I hope the 'Explosion' makes it here to Aus at some point, as it is another unusual one, and anything unusual I do tend to collect. ::) ;D
-
all this variations are simply stunning !
-
I look forward to 'Explosion' appearing on Janis' list!
-
When the French version of Disneyland opened it was described by some people as a "cultural Chernobyl" - not a compliment. Anemone nemorosa 'Explosion' strikes me as an horticultural Chernobyl.
-
Gote, this is what 'Blue Eyes' should be like. It opens as an ordinary double white and then the blue gradually appears as the flower gets older. Also 'Bracteata Plena' (New Zealand form as I received it). I can send you some if you like.
That is very kind of you Annie - later perhaps. I have still to see what 'Blue Eyes' does this year. My Bracteata plena/monstrosa may look like this occasionally - on other occasions they look very differently. I think that there is a high degree of instability there but I have no idea why?
Göte
-
My Bracteata plena/monstrosa may look like this occasionally - on other occasions they look very differently. I think that there is a high degree of instability there but I have no idea why?
The instability of some Anemone nemorosa cultivars illustrates that genetics is not a matter of simple Mendelian recessive-dominant genes. The famous Nobel laureate, Barbara McClintock, asked why some strains of corn (maize, Zea mays), bore cobs with kernels of different colors. Exploration of this question has over the last 50 years or so led to a deeper understanding of the mechanisms by which gene expression is regulated. Moreover, it has been recognized that heredity is not entirely a matter of the genes in chromosomes in cell nuclei. And lately I see articles referring to "epigenetic" factors being involved in controlling gene expression.
I don't have a sense of how thoroughly these issues have been worked out, whether the biologists have resolved most of the complexities or whether, on the other hand, they have found more and more complexity that remains imperfectly understood.
-
Also 'Bracteata Plena' (New Zealand form as I received it). I can send you some if you like.
I never heard of a New Zealand Form. ???
-
My Bracteata plena/monstrosa may look like this occasionally - on other occasions they look very differently. I think that there is a high degree of instability there but I have no idea why?
The instability of some Anemone nemorosa cultivars illustrates that genetics is not a matter of simple Mendelian recessive-dominant genes. The famous Nobel laureate, Barbara McClintock, asked why some strains of corn (maize, Zea mays), bore cobs with kernels of different colors. Exploration of this question has over the last 50 years or so led to a deeper understanding of the mechanisms by which gene expression is regulated. Moreover, it has been recognized that heredity is not entirely a matter of the genes in chromosomes in cell nuclei. And lately I see articles referring to "epigenetic" factors being involved in controlling gene expression.
I don't have a sense of how thoroughly these issues have been worked out, whether the biologists have resolved most of the complexities or whether, on the other hand, they have found more and more complexity that remains imperfectly understood.
Rodger - the concept of epigenetics was devised by the British biologist C.H. Waddington (Organisers & Genes, 1940) in response to discoveries in genetics & developmental biology. Essentially it is an 'organismic' rather than a 'reductionist' view of heredity & development. His views never became mainstream & were further eclipsed with the advent of molecular biology with its rather simplistic view of living organisms. However, Waddington always had a small group of disciples & in recent years his views have been revived & extended. You might find it interesting to look at How The Leopard Changed Its Spots by Brian Goodwin (1994) a relatively accessible account.
-
Perhaps I should post a picture to show what I mean.
ALL flowers in the picture are of the same plant meaning that they all started as the same rhizome that has now ramified. The frequency of the different forms varies from year to year.
That we get different colours on Corn seed is a different issue. The kernels are not entirely the same plants. They are the result of sexual reproduction so there is a genetic variation.
Göte
-
Barbara McClintock's work on maize was not concerned with variation due to sexual reproduction but, as Rodger indicates, with variation due to the differential regulation of gene expression, a phenomenon which she effectively discovered.
-
Barbara McClintock's work on maize was not concerned with variation due to sexual reproduction but, as Rodger indicates, with variation due to the differential regulation of gene expression, a phenomenon which she effectively discovered.
This kind of variation seems to me to be the only reasonable explanation for the variations in the nemorosas - unless it is some kind of virus.
One observation may be that the variable ones seem to be deficient in sexual reproduction. On the other hand virescens 'Vestal' and "alba plena" do not vary.
Göte
-
Gote, my 'Bracteata Plena' does much the same thing.
-
Gote, my 'Bracteata Plena' does much the same thing.
Thank you Annie
That is comforting Because then it cannot be my fault ;D ;D
It is still strange. I cannot think of any other genus that does this.
Göte
-
Three of double Anemone ranunculoides cv. and another yellow from Siberia - jeniseejensis
Janis
Dago.JPG
Hiumaa.JPG
Orjaku.JPG
jeniseejensis.JPG
-
A. nemorosa GREEN STRANGER is of same variability. Both pictures from same pot.
Janis
-
Janis,
So what exactly is the difference between it and bracteata plena? Looks the same to me, at least from those pics?
That first double yellow you posted is just such a perfect double, isn't it? Perfect layers, with good solid petals. Very, very nice.
-
Janis,
So what exactly is the difference between it and bracteata plena? Looks the same to me, at least from those pics?
That first double yellow you posted is just such a perfect double, isn't it? Perfect layers, with good solid petals. Very, very nice.
If I would know how to distuingish all those monstrose forms of nemorosa...
Janis
-
Lovely Anemones, Janis!
-
MMMMM!
-
Janis,
One does have to wonder who names these things, and why? If YOU can't work out the differences then what hope do the rest of us have. ;D
-
I'm not specialist in Anemones. I like them, of course.
Here two doubles, both very constant - very easy VESTAL, usually Alba-plena is the same VESTAL, never got something different from Vestal under all double names but BLUE EYES. Blue Eyes isn't so good grower and a little more lasy in blooming.
Janis
-
Janis,
One does have to wonder who names these things, and why? If YOU can't work out the differences then what hope do the rest of us have. ;D
The problem is that the different monstrous forms overlap greatly. I believe personally that they are the same only given new names now and then ;).
We have the same problems with some of the the blues. Some years I see a difference some years I see no difference.
Göte
-
This is the "normal" Anemone nemorosa as it appears in my place.
This is how it SHOULD be. Unfortunately there are little pieces of rhizomes everywhere and in the second picture it is a weed.
Scilla siberica is also everywhere. I try to get rid of both but they will emerge from 20cm depth. Nemorosas will grow upwards and can eventually be pulled. the Scillas stay put at a safe depth.
The special nemorosas do not give a good show this year. Since I site them "for show" they have been exposed to the too late winter and many are blind. These are the only flowers of 'Green Fingers' in a 4 square decimeter patch.
I hope for better show next year. Patience is the main virtue of the gardener. ;D
Göte
-
This is the "normal" Anemone nemorosa as it appears in my place.
This is how it SHOULD be. Unfortunately there are little pieces of rhizomes everywhere and in the second picture it is a weed.
Scilla siberica is also everywhere. I try to get rid of both but they will emerge from 20cm depth. Nemorosas will grow upwards and can eventually be pulled. the Scillas stay put at a safe depth.
The special nemorosas do not give a good show this year. Since I site them "for show" they have been exposed to the too late winter and many are blind. These are the only flowers of 'Green Fingers' in a 4 square decimeter patch.
I hope for better show next year. Patience is the main virtue of the gardener. ;D
Göte
Such GREEN FINGERS I had several years ago. Now not more - degenerate, lost, missed label? Don't know.
Janis
-
Such GREEN FINGERS I had several years ago. Now not more - degenerate, lost, missed label? Don't know.
Janis
They do not look like that all times. I do not know why that can be. However, since they have become well established they seem to be OK.
Göte
-
Göte, I wonder if my A.nemorosa could be 'Green Fingers'. I have had it for many years but without a name. The flowers look very similar to yours and they also vary a lot. The three flowers on the picture are from the same plant.
-
Göte, I wonder if my A.nemorosa could be 'Green Fingers'. I have had it for many years but without a name. The flowers look very similar to yours and they also vary a lot. The three flowers on the picture are from the same plant.
Looks as Green Fingers
Janis
-
Göte, I wonder if my A.nemorosa could be 'Green Fingers'. I have had it for many years but without a name. The flowers look very similar to yours and they also vary a lot. The three flowers on the picture are from the same plant.
Looks as Green Fingers
Janis
Agree
Göte
-
Well it's now aptly named as it flourishes under Gunilla's skills :)
-
Thank you Göte and Janis! I think it is nice to know the name of my plants even if they flower just as well (or not) without :).
-
I'm not specialist in Anemones. I like them, of course.
Here two doubles, both very constant - very easy VESTAL, usually Alba-plena is the same VESTAL, never got something different from Vestal under all double names but BLUE EYES. Blue Eyes isn't so good grower and a little more lasy in blooming.
Janis
I sometimes wonder if BE just likes good living [don't we all].
I had some when it was 'new'. Once it got its feet in the ground in my best free draining bed with no competition it was great. I scattered some in a clay shady bed [but still with plenty leafmould] and got the poorer results that Janis mentions. Its been there for five years or so now, so it can't still be getting 'established'.
Gerry
-
Blue Eyes is rampant here on a raised bed and flowers very well. It's in full sun, but the bed is watered in dry weather in the summer.
-
Blue Eyes is rampant here on a raised bed and flowers very well. It's in full sun, but the bed is watered in dry weather in the summer.
With blue centres and all I assume?
Göte
-
my Anemone nemerosa and other ( 1 )
A. nemerosa Blue Eyes
A. nem Blue Eyes
A. nem. Multipliciti
A. nemerosa Pleugers Plena
A. ranunculoides Semi Plena
A. sylvestris Elise Fellmann
A. sylvestris Elise Fellmann
-
Of course, Gote! A very interesting A sylvestris, Wolfgang. Is it as invasive as the single?
-
Lovely Sylvestris. Anne, I managed to kill the single! :o ::)
-
I had to dismantle part of a bed because it was in the middle of everything else at a rate of knots.
-
Are your's on sand Anne? I got ? 'Macrantha' from a lad in Germany a bit back. Lovely big rounded flowers, and sticks in a clump. I'm on 'improved' clay.
Gerry
-
It is reasonably light soil on that bed. A clumping form would be good, because it is a lovely thing in flower.
-
I think there is a lot of confusion regarding the names A. nemorosa 'Bracteata' and 'Monstrosa'. New clones are found now and then (or names or labels lost) and then routinely named any of these names, or something similar. I have proposed to use Bracteata Group and/or Monstrosa Group when you are unsure of the clone name. What are your opinion of this? Is it possible to define the differece between Monstrosa- and Bracteata- forms?
Regarding double forms of Anemone ranunculoides I found a nice form a couple of years ago, and namned it 'Lina' after the place whete it was found.
-
Very nice flower, Owe. Excellent form.
Welcome to the forum. Great to have you with us. 8)
-
Welcome, Owe!
I think your suggestions re; naming of double forms is most sensible. when a name is not fully known, following your idea would save a lot of confusion.
The 'Lina' form you have found is very bright and pretty.
-
Regarding double forms of Anemone ranunculoides I found a nice form a couple of years ago, and named it 'Lina' after the place whete it was found.
Very nice, indeed!
"Yellow Vestal" would have been a good name, as it closely resembles Anemone nemorosa 'Vestal'.
Have you given this to nurserymen for wider distribution? It is an extremely worthy addition to the double anemones. The other double forms of A. ranunculoides I am familiar with are, frankly, disapointments.
-
It is a beauty, Owe, and would be, I am sure, much in demand were it offered by a nursery.