Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => Flowers and Foliage Now => Topic started by: Hans A. on February 24, 2009, 01:54:00 PM
-
While in more northern parts still Galanthus are in flower, and Crocus and Helleborus actually have started, the first Paeonias are in bloom here in the more southern part of europe: Paeonia cambessedesii :D
-
Wow! Yes, our snowdrops, crocus, eranthis and reticulate iris are just beginning!! Yours is another world, Hans :D
-
Thanks Maggi, you are right, maybe it is a bit warmer here ::) 8)
At saturday I had a very sympathic visitor from this forum in my house when the buds of the paeonia still were closed - two warm days and now they are open... ;D ;)
-
Lovely Hans.
-
:o :o :o :o... :-X
-
...and I love the way it's growing out of rock! We don't normally think of paeonia that way...
-
Very beautiful!
I wish I could grow these kind of plants here, but there is no way...maybe I need to buy an outside refrigerator like Oron ::) ;) ;D
-
Hans lovely cambessedessii while mine are only showing buds at ground level
-
Really lovely Hans. I guess if spring is springing in the north, autumn will very soon be falling here. Leaves are turning already and we may get a few frosts after all this rain, welcome though it is, now in the 6th day without a break except of a few minutes here and there. A heavy fog as well today.
-
...and I love the way it's growing out of rock! We don't normally think of paeonia that way...
I'm sure I saw them planted in the Rock Garden in Kew because that's what I did with the seedling I grew and it's been flowering size the last few years http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2436.105 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2436.105) reply 116 includes a pic of it last year. Hopefully it will survive our extremely hot summer to flower again next year ( unless it gets frosted!)
Hans
it's lovely to see your pic of this paeonia in the wild.
Lesley, please stop talking about rain!
cheers
fermi
-
Thanks for the comments,
@Miriam - I would think this species can be grown in Israel in a shady place and little watering.
@fermi - even if it looks untidy - the plants grow in my garden 8) ;) - this are 5 years old seedlings and I do not feed them very much so they look a bit skinny ;D
-
Sorry about that Fermi, I know you need rain so much. Otto says he's had nothing since mid December. It's stopped here for the moment but more is forecast for Friday and Saturday, in time for me to be drenched again at the Market. 8 hours last Saturday with sodden clothing but I didn't get a cold though I expected to.
This is my favourite Paeonia species.
-
While in more northern parts still Galanthus are in flower, and Crocus and Helleborus actually have started, the first Paeonias are in bloom here in the more southern part of europe: Paeonia cambessedesii :D
at least a couple of months before there will be any flowers outdoors here! maybe sooner for pussywillows!
nice to see this species paeonia, very innocent looking compared to the grand madame hybrids..
-
Two rare species are in flower now,
P. mascula, only a few dozen plants are growing in one location in the Galilee.
P. clusii from the Island of Rhodos.
-
Oron what conditions is P. mascula growing in? Might be one of the few Paeonia I can try to grow.
-
Pat
The natural habitat is a north facing Mediterranean scrub with low tree [ mainly oak].
Rich humid soil with plenty of leafmould and organic matter.
It grows only above 800m meaning that it needs at least 3 months of night temperatures just above 0c.
Full sun or light shade and a few years to establish.
By the way these conditions are similar to all the Peonies from the Mediterranean.
-
The first Paeonia in a greenhouse
-
.... and a very nice one too Hans.
-
Oron,
When some of my oak trees grow some more and create humousy soil under them I will think about Paeonies
-
Pat, what are winter temperatures like in your area?
-
Pat,
Paeonies do brilliantly here, so what is the problem with your area? Not cold enough? They can grow out in full blazing sun here, in poor soil, and still do very well (the tree paeonies in particular), so I am unsure why they won't do well for you?
-
Pat, Paeonia mascula var russii was growing in light shade under deciduous trees at Olinda in Victoria when I was there last year. Marcus Harvey does it well in Tasmania too.
-
Oh. Lesley, what a fab flower 8) Such delicate shading and a great pic, thanks! I adore peonies 8) 8)
please pass on Aberdeen best wishes to Roger for a grand birthday ..... Cheers, Roger! :-*
-
Hi Lesley ,
I agree this is really a nice plant and a beautiful pic .....but I dont believe it is a P. mascula v. russoi ....
On my travels on the mediterranean islands I have seen a lot of this peonies ( Sardinia, Sicily,Corsica ) but they look different ...
The color of the flower looks more like a P. mascula v. hellenica - the leaves looks also not like P. russoi leaves ....
Could you maybe please make a pic of the leaves later ?
-
Thanks Hans, you may be quite right as Marcus gave me seeds from both vars and I may have got them mixed - or he may have. :) Either way, they are just first year seedlings so I can't do the leaves for you for some time. This picture was taken near Otto's house, in Victoria, Australia.
-
If it would be helpful Hans, I may have a bigger pic than this, showing more foliage. I think I cropped this one for the Forum. Just a minute.
-
Lesley - yes this would be a help !
Here are some pics ( from last year ):
P. masc. ssp. hellenica
P. masc. ssp. russoi
-
Oron winter temps can go down to about -7C and summer temps to 43+C with bare paddocks in summer apart from the house garden. I grow the arils and most of the iris species up the hill further. We get plenty of frosts if it is going to be a dry year in autumn and spring.
On the alkaline side of the scale and more alkaline where the bore water has been been used over the 30+ years we have been here.
I use rainwater for potted plants but sometimes have to use some bore between waterings with rainwater. I have two paeony in the shade house that struggle through summer - some summer sun can come in during the day and the leaves burn.
Just checked both - both have new red buds on the seeming dead stems - one says osteri(?) and the other is from an old garden that was being demolished. It was growing well in the south facing garden bed nearest the house. Yes I have seen some in full sun up in the hills more.
If anyone would like to send me any seeds to try I will never say no. It is a genus that I would like to grow more of if I can master their requirements.
Happy Easter all.
-
Pat,
I can't see why they'd be a problem for you, particularly as you already have the alkaline soil that they seem to prefer. I would think that either the herbaceous or the tree types should do well for you. We used to have a collector here who grew hers out in full sun, without any problem at all. They might toast a bit in summer, but then the extra few degrees maximum in summer might just be enough to cause more damage? The ones of mine that do better for me to be honest are those that are out in full sun, not those in some shade. Have you got the good old "Destiny" (white, with dark rockii flares)? It is one of those that could be a good one to try out in the open to see how it goes? I can probably get a piece for you off mine if you are wanting to try it?
Added a short while later : I've sent you an email to your hotmail account re the Paeonia 'Destiny' and one other that I can hopefully share during dormancy.
-
Hi all,
Paeonia mairei is the first peony to flower and it seeds around abundantly in our garden.
Robin
-
Robin, that is beautiful and so early flowering! And exciting too, because of seeding around 8)
Looking at the picture, does it grow on a light shady spot?
-
Unfortunately I DIDN'T crop the picture Hans, that's as big as the original which I simply resized, so I can't show the foliage better.
And when I think about it, I'm a little mixed up anyway. The picture I posted was not of my own plant (mine are still in their first growth seedlings) but belongs to a Victorian gardener, near Otto's house. It is being grown there, and in a NSW garden I visited, as P. mascula ssp. russii, so if there is a mistake, it is theirs, not mine. Marcus Harvey gave me seeds under the names P. m. russii and P. m. hellenica. so I hope one of them turns out to be this delicately pink plant.
-
Robin,
The P. mairei is glorious. Being so early is an added benefit. Good colour and shape to it as well. One I haven't come across before, so thanks for the education. ;D
-
Unfortunately I DIDN'T crop the picture Hans, that's as big as the original which I simply resized, so I can't show the foliage better.
And when I think about it, I'm a little mixed up anyway. The picture I posted was not of my own plant (mine are still in their first growth seedlings) but belongs to a Victorian gardener, near Otto's house. It is being grown there, and in a NSW garden I visited, as P. mascula ssp. russii, so if there is a mistake, it is theirs, not mine. Marcus Harvey gave me seeds under the names P. m. russii and P. m. hellenica. so I hope one of them turns out to be this delicately pink plant.
Lesley ,
no problem ....
I will post later pics of leaves from both plants ...
It is easier distinguish from the leaves - also it is easy from the seeds - they are really different .
-
Hi all,
Paeonia mairei is the first peony to flower and it seeds around abundantly in our garden.
Robin
Hi Robin ,
It is interesting what you write with P. mairei - I grow these plants since many years and they are here also always one of the first ....but I had never any frutis or seeds on them ( I have two different clones from different sources ) -OK - I have never hand pollinate it ...but they grows side by side ....
-
Lesley ,
here now some pics from the garden today ( a pic says always more than 1000 words ) :
[attach=1]
here the typical glossy leaves of P.russoi - the leaves are sometimes with and sometimes without hairs on the backside
[attach=2]
here the typical red stems of P.russoi
[attach=3]
here a flowering plant of P. russoi
-
here now P.mascula hellenica :
[attach=1]
here is a pic from my trip in last year to the island of Andros where this plants grow ....I'm sorry to report that my own plants which I had for many years is died this winter- it was to long unusual cold
[attach=2]
here is a pic of the other ssp. of P. masc. hellenica from Ikaria - thats seedlings grown from seed by me
The big difference is that the leaves of P.hellenica is not glossy -and it has also not this strong red stems .
If you meet Marcus Harvey so please ask him from where his plants orginal came -that would be easier .
-
Fascinating stuff Hans and Robin !
Great foliage and flowers !
Marvelous ! :o
-
Robin, that is beautiful and so early flowering! And exciting too, because of seeding around 8)
Looking at the picture, does it grow on a light shady spot?
Luit,
We have several P. maireis and they all grow in woodland conditions. Dappled shade.
Robin
-
Hi Robin ,
It is interesting what you write with P. mairei - I grow these plants since many years and they are here also always one of the first ....but I had never any frutis or seeds on them ( I have two different clones from different sources ) -OK - I have never hand pollinate it ...but they grows side by side ....
Hi Hans,
I have 3 clones of P. mairei. I also never hand pollinated any of them and they produce seed every year abundantely. Almost every seed germinates and grows much faster than the other peony species.
Robin
-
The leaves of the species I photographed were quite glossy, much more so than in your picture Hans, of P. m. hellenica. I'll forward my picture to Marcus and see what he thinks. He has a new seed list out with both subspecies listed so I'm ordering both.
-
Hi after a nice visit to Serra de Aires in Portugal organizedby the APO (association of orchidophilis (orchid lovers) in Portugal) I have some pictures of wild paeonia.
From distance they almost looks like a inense tulip ::)
I love them and try to grow some in the garden as well.
All of them are gardencenter varieties except for a P delavayi seedlings. These are growing so that they get trampeled :'( so not so good progress as what I wanted.
Here are the wild followed by the tree peony that was flowering 1 month ago.
It was windy as h.ll when taking the picture so that is whay I did not manage to get it in center. The day after i had broken and was lying on the ground. :'( :'( :'(
The wild ones are P broteroi
enjoy
Joakim
-
What beautifull plants everybody !!
Hans and hans and Oron, flowers and leaves are crasy !
Here is one of my favourite Paeonia, from Crete , P. clusii ( same as your's Oron ), just starting to flower now.
Very nice plant but really very very very.... slow to grow from seeds : about 8 years to get the first flower ??? ::)
(http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/84/35/03/eos5dm56.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=532&u=11843503)
-
The first one here in the garden P. mascula mascula (?)
-
Here is one of my favourite Paeonia, from Crete , P. clusii ( same as your's Oron ), just starting to flower now
Fred,
Indeed a very attractive plant but difficult to please in my garden. Much easier to grow and also a beautifull plant is Paeonia obovata alba:
Robin
-
Wonderfull flower and stamens Robin !!!
I think I'll try some more species....
-
here is now P. clusii from my garden today :
[attach=1]
Paeonia clusii
[attach=2]
this is my 'habitat' of P. clusii - I grow several clones - grown from seed
[attach=3]
here is ( like in every year as first ) a plant with more pinkish flowers
-
Very nice Hans !
I don't have the pink form, if you have some seeds, I'll send you the white form seeds :)
-
Fred ,
shure I have also P. clusii from locations with white flowers ....wait some days ;)
-
Great work Hans !
Very impressive flowers ! I'll look forward to more pix from your collection :D
-
Thank you Luc ;D
How doing the seedlings of the P. tenuifolia ?
-
2 are doing great Hans - looking healthy and growing like mad ! :D
The 3rd one didn't survive ... :'(
Thanks again !
-
;) Luc - thats a good quote ;D
-
That is a lovely flower and habitat Hans ;)
-
Hi
I did ask last year about double lacti. cultivars that due to nonideal or even bad conditions become single.
Now second plant from different source (but maybe originally the same) both came in a package for 2€ so I did not expect gold but the double that the picture showed. I aimed to impress my-mother-law.
I got this plant that I show below.
I am surprised to see this one and I wonder how come. I did not expect commercial growers to have this plant and the old double ones are not expensive so I really wonder.
The plant is nice but do not impress that much.
I might need to bring a double from Sweden and see how it is performing.
I have watered all plants much more this year and they all look much better.
Can I hope for it to become double?
Kind regards
Joakim
-
Here new pics from today :
P. daurica
P. arietina
-
Joakim, as a purist I say more singles less doubles!
Hans ,thanks for shwoing pics of 2 species I am growing from AGS seed. Some will flower this year, the others maybe next year- I am praying the seed came from you so they will be like your plants! My biggest fear is they will be double P.lactiflora hybrids- sorry Joakim ;)
-
Simon ,
I agree with you with doubles and hybrids ......
My dissapointment was very big as I have grown from seeds P.lactiflora ( w.c. from Halda ;D ;D ;D ) .....as the plants has flowered it was a silly double P. lactflora ( white ) ...and never collect in wild .
Maybe you have luck _ I have send in last years always seeds of my peonies to AGS,NARGS and SRGC ....
-
Hans, then my plants may indeed be your babies- the oldest will be 4 years old this year and have their first flowerbuds showing. We also have P.rockii from seed, which will flower this year. One flowered last year and I think it was true. Do you grow this species too?
-
Simon :
you are writing with one of the craziest peony people .... 8)
please look here :
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1690.0
...there are man of my peonies ....
-
Ok Hans, now I understand why you are a Gourmand. I also have the Paeony bug, but I am just beginning. ;)
-
Oh, Simon, Hans is no gourmand, he is a true gourmet! 8) Trust me, I have the seedlings and the dried funghi to prove it!! :)
-
Maggi , ;)
thank you for clarification of my forum name ....( a gourmand is not so nice )
Simon :
I hope you have a big garden with a lot of room ;)
-
Hans, we have 4000 square metres.
Maggi, I am hoping my soon to be flowering Paeony seedlings are from Hans too- via AGS.
-
Simon and Hans I fully understand that the singles are nice too but if You buy a double then You expect to get one.
Growing double from seeds must be a disappointment since they are often available in garden centers at a low cost.
If one likes species then one want to have singles offcourse.
If one wants big fat flowers than one go for doubles.
I do like that the single took heavy rain without hanging to much so they have their advantages.
I am just so surprised that it has happened twice that I got singles in stead of doubles. I do not think it has ever happend in Sweden so that is why I was thinking it might be cultivation. Nor did I expect to see singles in cultivation for commercial purposes.
I will see what the other one will look like next year and see if this one will stay the same. So something to look forward to.
Kind regards
Joakim
-
Joakim ,
it is really a lot of wasting time if you grow peonies from seeds and than you realize it is a hybrid !
In your case : why do not order what you like from a good nursery ?
You can choice what you like : single , double,species,hybrids and more ....
p.e. there is a good nursery in Sweden -the owner is Hermann Krupke ( born german )
Guldmedsgarden
SE - 52495 LJUNG
If you buy peonies in a garden center so they are cheap ....but you will get nothing special ....if you go to a good peony nursery so you get wonderful plants -look p.e. for Hybrids from Saunders !
A good suggestion for peonies is the nursery from Riviere in France :
http://www.pivoinesriviere.com/
they have a fantastic sortiment !!!
Why not give a bit more money for such a ice plant ?
You can have it for a very long time .....thats only some minds of me !
-
Today now P. corsica - as the name says the home of this plants is the island of Corsica
-
Great colour on the P.corsica, Hans.
Flowering today, in between showers, Paeonia tenuifolia lithophila. Or at least that was its name when I bought it ;)
-
Paeonia emodi opened its first blossoms today. I have two clones, one from England, which I believe is the Highdown clone and one from China. Both have beautiful, but different foliage. I have a seedling coming from a cross between the two.
-
Simon :
I grow both P.tenuifolia and P.lithophila -they are a bit different for me :
P. tenuifolia is a really low plant ,P. lithophila is higher and flowers 2 weeks later
Jamie :
I suppose your 'Highdown clone' is a hybrid ( maybe 'Windflower' early or late )
P. emodi comes not from China - the name comes from the Emodi Mts. -thats the latin name for Himalaya - this plants grows in Kashmir - N.Pakistan - Afganistan .
I grow it too - my plants comes one from W.MyLewin and a other is grown from w.c. seeds from Afganistan.
-
Hans,
I did know it doesn't come from China, but that was the source of the importation at the time, therefore the epiphet. I had thought of 'Wind Flower', but the fotos I've seen of the hybrid don't match my plant well, also, I had read that both 'Wind Flower' clones bloom later than the species. Attached are shots of the leaves of both plants. What do you think?
-
Thanks Hans. It was bought as a seedling from Paul Christian about 10 years ago a P.tenuifolia lithophila. Unfortunately at the time I had to grow it in a pot (which it hated) and it has been moved from the open garden twice. It has just settled back into flowering, but is only ever about 30cm tall. Which species would that make it?
-
Jamie ,
it is clear to see on your 'Highdown ' plant that it is a hybrid - look for the leaves !!!
Saunders has used for 'Early Windflower' : P. emodi X P. veitschii
for 'Late Windflower' : P.emodi X P.veitschii v. beresowskii
here is a pic of my P. emodi from last year :
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1690.msg45295#msg45295
-
Simon :
I will look tomorrow with a scale on my plants of P. tenuifloia and P. lithophila ....
-
Simon :
I have just looked :
P. tenuifolia 40 cm
P. tenuifolia f. rosea 40 cm
P. lithophla 60 cm
-
Thanks Hans- I guess it is P.tenuifolia then :)
-
No problem Simon :D
Here some new pics :
P. 'Roselette'
a triple hybrid from Saunders ( P. lactiflora x ( P.officinalis X P.macrophylaa))
-
here some more :
P. 'La Messagere' ( a old hybrid )
P. banatica
P. spec. aff. mascula
-
here is a strange plant - grown from seeds ex Archibalds :
I have the seeds received as P. mascula ex Montenegro ......but it is never a P. mascula !
....I hate such things ....a plant without a good location is not a good plant :-\
-
Hans,
a question concerning P. banatica. I have a plant from Hungary, looks to be in the officinalis group. The last leaf is always divided in two leaflets, the leaves are very bluish and the flower resembles your plant. It is in bud and should open in the next days. It is slightly rhizomatous, as well. Does this 'sound' like banatica? Or are there other forms with this leaf characteristic?
-
Jamie ,
my plant comes orginaly from Hungary too ...
But I have seen this plants also self in the wild ( Italy / Slowenia )
It is a ssp. to P. officinalis - no problem why your plant should be not a P.banatica -but please post a pic .
-
Here are three clones I received from the Baltic states (Lithuania?) of P. rockii. Whether they represent hybrids or selection of the species, I have no idea. The purple one has wonderfully bright lime green foliage and is incredibly robust. Already 3 times the size of the other two. It has the best plant habit as well, which speaks for a hybrid.
The last shot is Renkaku.
-
Gentlemen.... I am in heaven with your photos..... thank you!
-
Hans,
here is a shot of the current years foliage and last years flower. Hope this helps.
-
Jamie ,
yes -it is a typical P. officinalis ;)
-
Hans,
what's your favourite reference for Paeonia? I have Page, Halda-Waddick, but still am unsure how to key-out species. Just what does seperate offcinalis from banatica? Anomola from veitchii, etc?
-
Jamie ,
I have the most of the peony literature ....
To the book of Waddick/ Halda ....there are excellent drawnings ....but I prefer more pics from habitat ;)
I do know the book from Martin Page - very good .
To P.banatica : I think the main reason for this separating is the distribution ....in my eyes is not so much difference to other forms of P.officinalis ( I know it from Italy,Swiss,Croatia,France)
In earlier times was always a big confusion with plants which named as P.arietina ....but this plants grows ( so far i know ) only in Turkey
P.anomala + P.veitschii ....but are similar and shure relatet - but they grow in different areas.
The nomenclature of Paeonia is a minefield ....and many wrong named plants and hybrids makes this situation not easier ...
It is always the same : there are splitters and lumpers ....
-
A few more paeonies. As many plants are from commercial production, I am never sure if the names are correct, but they are always beautiful.
Paeonia_ShiChoju_
Paeonia_Athena_
P. HANA DAI JIN day 1
Kamada-Nishiki
-
Today we went for a walk in a local wood, where last autumn we found 1 paeony in seed. Today we returned hoping to see some in flower, but we were maybe a week too early. The area we visited had hundreds of paeonies, most had buds about to break and we hope to return soon to see them in flower. In the meantime here are pics of the 2 leaf forms we saw. As a paeony novice I am not quite sure which they are- the choices are P.mascula or P.peregrina.
-
Probably my absolute favourite herbacious Paeonia, 'Claire de Lune'. Simply beautiful.
-
Probably my absolute favourite herbacious Paeonia, 'Claire de Lune'. Simply beautiful.
After a rainy walk in the forest your photo lifted my spirits, Jamie, it is absolutely beautiful - like a full moon! Thank you for posting 'Claire do Lune' :)
-
One from today in the woodland garden- Tiny Tim complete with crutch- Paeonia banatica (ex Hungary from Phedar Nursery)
-
Flowering today- Paeonia obovata (?)
-
Flowering today- Paeonia obovata (?)
I think not. My own P. obovata alba is in flower and I took a hard look at it an hour ago. Both the foliage and the form of the flower are quite different from yours. Perhaps you have a hybrid of P. mlokosewitschii & P. officinalis, or something along those lines.
I have some supposed P. mloko. here grown from exchange seed years ago. They show slight signs of hybridity in that they have a slight reddish staining of the normally-yellow flower color. Yours look like they're even more hybrid.
-
I wondered about that too. There is certainly some yellow in there and like yours Rodger, my mlok seedlings from a seed exchange have some pink in them. Definitely hybrids.
-
I wondered about that too. There is certainly some yellow in there and like yours Rodger, my mlok seedlings from a seed exchange have some pink in them. Definitely hybrids.
I thought there was some doubt about this. Is the type form of P mlokosewitchii actually yellow? I have read somewhere that the familiar yellow form is an old selection and that all our garden forms derive from this. So pink is a possible colour for the species. Can anyone confirm or dispute this? Who has seen it in the wild?
Here's mine doing nicely at the moment
-
Hong and Zhou's "Paeonia in the Caucasus" is a great read for anyone that loves species Paeonia. Although most may not agree with his conclusions that the following are all subspecies of daurica; coriifolia, wittmanniana, mlokosewitschii, macrophylla and tomentosa, they found clinal variation and that petal color was polymorphic between and within populations. They even have a photo of P. daurica (pink) next to P. daurica (ssp.mloko-yellow) and variations between the two. The types of P. mlokosewitschii and P. lagodechiana both came from Lagodekhi.
Even if they are the same entity the geographic ranges of the subspecies do not overlap much from what I remember and they appear different and distinct in the garden.
Aaron Floden
-
Here a shots of what I grow as P. x chamaeleon and P. mlokosewiczii. The former isconsdiered a hybrid of mlokosewiczii x caucasica, but I am not covinced of the parentage. All are diploids with 2n=10. Without flowers, the difference in the leaves is minimal, but distinct enough to seperate them, as with most of this closely related group. Again, we come back to the question of what is a species? Clearly, these paeonies are still evolving and hybrid populations exist in the wild. Most fit the definition of a sub-species, that of being seperated genetically via a physical barrier (mountains), yet interfertile with hybrid populations in the wilds. They seem to build a gradient.
-
Thanks guys- I bought the obovata from a seed exchange and when it flowered it didn't quite look right to me- I am very happy if they are P.mlokosowetchii, or forms, as I have wanted some of them for a while. As I was saying to Hans a few ages back, most of my Paeonies are from seed exchange seed sown in 2004 and some are flowering now for the first time. I was praying they weren't just going to be double forms of P.lactiflora ;)
-
I have seen a reddish shoot of a otherwise yellow mlokosewitschii having the "same flowersize and foliage" to the untrained eye, in the botanical garden in Lund, Sweden. Many in Sweden say that the offspring of mlokosewitschii more often then not is pinkish. (might be due to garden hybridization as well). This is the garden report have not seen them in the wild.
Kind regards
Joakim
-
I agree with Jamie as to the question of just what makes a species. I also agree with Diane that some literature on particular species is often heavily biased towards plants that are currently in cultivation, which may have originally in the mists of time all been propagated from one wild plant.
I would like to point out, that I was not implying my post was of P.obovata, hence the question mark after its name. I am always happy to receive more information from people who have been growing these plants longer than I have.
Simon
-
More Paeonies from seed. All names as listed on seed packets.
P. mascula arietina
P. officinalis banatica
a different P. obovata from the same source. I now know this is probably a hybrid.
-
Great photos everyone. Nice to see some familiar to me (I used to grow chameleon but lost it one wet winter) and some I've not grown but want to (mlokosowetchii). What is there not to like about Paeonia!! 8)
-
Simon nice plants but there was no double lactiflora among them. Better luck next time ::) :P :-*
Sometimes the bees are faster than the grower in making seeds so hybridization is part of the game unless there has been very controlled conditions. When the plants are as nice as Yours most gardeners (including me) would be very happy for the nice Yellow You had. In Sweden they would call it mlokosowetchii (maybe hybrid of but not sure) as it is "the most desirable" amongst "normal" gardeners and Yours has a nice yellow.
Well done
Joakim
-
I agree Joakim- some lovely plants have grown from the seed I bought. If any double P.lactiflora turn up I will let you know ;)
-
Lovely paeonies and pictures all.
This is a generous gift from a good friend - a layer of a good form of Rockii - its first flower
-
Ian did I understand it correctly that "layer" means that it originates as a low branch that has been rooted by bending it down into the soil while still attached to the mother plants?
I have not seen it done on Paeonias before so I got surprised! But the things I do not know can fill many books ::)
Nice plant
Kind regards
Joakim
-
For me Ian this Peonia rockii is absolutely my favourite large flower form and colour (I grew it once upon a time too) - you have taken a wonderful photograph and I hope you don't mind that I've downloaded it to enjoy on my desk top :)
-
Very nice indeed Ian.
-
Ian did I understand it correctly that "layer" means that it originates as a low branch that has been rooted by bending it down into the soil while still attached to the mother plants?
I have not seen it done on Paeonias before so I got surprised! But the things I do not know can fill many books ::)
Nice plant
Kind regards
Joakim
Absolutely correct Joakim a lower branch is wounded and pegged into the ground producing a new plant. This one is a beauty as it has a few suckers which means that it should produce a plant of nice shape
For me Ian this Peonia rockii is absolutely my favourite large flower form and colour (I grew it once upon a time too) - you have taken a wonderful photograph and I hope you don't mind that I've downloaded it to enjoy on my desk top :)
Robin you are most welcome. Paeonies are the most beautiful things aren't they. It's a shame that the flowers can't last just a little longer :(
-
I may have mentioned this before but I think it bears repeating: a friend was dying and her belovedwas visiting her every day in hospital. Her Paeonia rockii was full of buds and each day he took a bloom in to her to cheer her, when she died there was only one bloom left to adorn her ciffin. So sad but so beautiful.
-
Insects also enjoy the rich amount of pollen in the paeonia flowers, sometimes they are so heavily loaded
with it,that they can hardly start again.
I received P. ostii as a seedling 2 years ago and it amazes me, how quick it grows.
Paeonia officinalis
Paeonia arietina alba
Paeonia ostii 1
Paeonia ostii 2
-
Insects also enjoy the rich amount of pollen in the paeonia flowers, sometimes they are so heavily loaded
with it,that they can hardly start again.
I received P. ostii as a seedling 2 years ago and it amazes me, how quick it grows.
Your P. ostii is really growing well, Rudi. What fine foliage it has to set off those lovely flowers.
-
Diane, you and everyone else here, are better able than I to talk about hybrids v. species where P. mloko is concerned, so I shouldn't have said "definitely." I've know mloko for close to 50 years as a yellow flowered plant and I've also had my own hybrids between it and cambessedesii which are yellow flushed with pink so I made the assumption, but of course I don't know what the type colour was.
-
Ian thanks for the information. I did not know it was needed to wound it but I may test that. We do this with Camelia japonica, but have so far not wounded them (deliberately). Our tree peonies are either to small or have a more upright way of growing so we have not tested this method,yet. We will now. :)
Kind regards
Joakim
-
I recently gave a friend a seedling from my P. mlokosewitschii in bud. When it flowered it was bright pink!
-
Anne did You or a bee polinate the plant?
This shows how tricky it is.
Kind regards
Joakim
-
Paeonia cambessedesii flowering in a large trough. Flowers often abort bot not this year, thankfully. Phlox bifida & Saxifraga corymbosa also in view.
-
Very nice indeed Mike.
-
Very nice indeed Mike.
I second that motion !!!
Lovely Mike !
-
This is a generous gift from a good friend - a layer of a good form of Rockii - its first flower
I don't think I have the same friend as Ian, but the coincidence is that I last year
was given a nice plant of Paeonia rockii by a generous friend too.
Today I made some pictures, just before a heavy wind and rain started for some hours.
I hope they did not suffer much, because it is soooo beautyful.
-
This is a generous gift from a good friend - a layer of a good form of Rockii - its first flower
I don't think I have the same friend as Ian, but the coincidence is that I last year
was given a nice plant of Paeonia rockii by a generous friend too.
Today I made some pictures, just before a heavy wind and rain started for some hours.
I hope they did not suffer much, because it is soooo beautyful.
Quite lovely Luit 8)
-
Here are a few more of mine
P cambessedessii just going over
P wittmanniana - I hope
P a self sown hybrid I am guessing is cambessedessii x molly the witch
P veitchii woodwardii raised from society seed
-
Your self-sown hybrid is beautiful. Joakim, it was a bee, so I have hand pollinated this time.
-
I agree, a great hybrid Ian. Any clues as to which parent was the mother? I love P.cambessedesii, but would not want to torture it with a winter here.
Flowering today- bought as Paeonia mascula hellenica 'Sicula'
-
Some more from today- both from seed.
Paeonia peregrina
Paeonia mascula arietina (a different plant and seed packet to previous posts)
-
Simon, how long from sowing to first flowering please?
-
David, it has taken 4 or 5 years for the ones I have shown so far. The seed was soon after it was bought from the seed exchange surplus in 2004. They germinated and were planted out the next year, then brought here in 2006. For some this is the first flowering. Some like P.rockii flowered last year. Some, such as seed sown P.veitchii and P.anomala, don't look as if they will flower this year.
-
Thanks for that Simon, If the Gods stay with me I should have some nice pictures to post in a few years time. I have P.broteroi and P. liphophiola from Hans J's seed sown in June 2008; P. delavayi angustiloba and P. delavayi lutea from SRGC Seed Ex also sown in June 2008, and P. cambessedesii sown in 2007-all germinated very well indeed.
-
I've been meaning to visit the Cruickshank Botanic Garden in Aberdeen since February but just got round to it yesterday when I took in some plants for the twice yearly plant sale. The following two Paeonies were looking good. I don' remember if the rockii (or hybrid) was bought as a plant or grown from seed but it has been there a long time. It is growing in a very dry border between a high wall and paving with a large Pinus radiata hanging over from the other side of the wall. I couldn't decide which was the best picture so have posted all three.
-
Roma, your paeonia photos are taken in the most lovely light - my favourite is the obovata and it's great to see the flowers on the plant and a single in CU - delicious! The rockii looks pale pink or is some of that the reflection of the maroon centre? I am going to look up Cruickshank Botanic Garden on the web and hopefully have a virtual tour today :)
-
here two pics from today :
P. broteroi
P. emodii
-
Hans,
Is there anything in particular that edmodii needs to flower? I've grown it for a number of years but have never managed to flower it, although the herbaceous hybrids and officinalis rubra plena flower well for me each year. It just seems to not want to cooperate. ::)
-
Paul ,
I have nothing any special treatment for P.emodi ....it grows on a sunny place in my normal calcy soil -two or three time in year fertilizer ( Nitrophoska )....
I have two big bushes of P.emodi both from different sources ( one from Will Mclewin and one from w.c. seed from Afganistan )
-
Flowering on limestone escarpments around Veliko Tarnovo- Paeonia peregrina (?).
I counted and the woodland plants all had 10 petals.
-
Simon,
certainly looks like P. peregrina. Hans can probably say more. Wonderful to see a natural stand of the plants. Will you be able to collect seed later in the year? That would be very cool! I have but one that will bloom today or tomorrow, which I grew from seed. Hopefully it will come true.
-
yes -it is for shure P. peregrina -may be P. peregrina v. romanica
I'm a bit surprised for the growing situation ....it look like a open area - right ?
I have visit before many years two populations in south italy ( with the help of italian botanists ) .....this plants grows more in woods or on clearings - on one location was it mixed with P. mascula ....and I saw some hybrids !
-
Jamie, we have every intention of going back to collect seed. There were so many flowers and so many developing pods, there that I am sure nature can spare us a few seeds.
Hans, there are 2 distinct populations: one growing in the beach woodland on the slopes of the escarpment, which has wider leaves and 10 petals; and one growing on the ridge of the excarpment in open grassland and scrub, these have narrower leaves and fuller petals. On the day we visited the heat was blistering, yet the Paeonies were in full flower in full sun with Thlaictrum aquilegifolium (a species we have only seen wild in shady woods in the past).
-
Flowering today- Paeonia peregrina (originally from Kelways)
-
love it - and so will the bees ;)
-
Lovely, Simon. 8)
-
Here is a plant I bought as a seedling from Slack Top Nursery three years ago and flowering for the first time. The label says "Paeonia anomola?" Google tells me that this species is a little mixed up. Does anyone think it isn't P anomola?
-
It's very similar to P veitchii, I don't think I can tell the difference and I believe the taxonomists are also confused ;D
-
I agree with Diane, David. It looks like the P.veitchii I have had too. Pis I have seen of anomla have much more finally dissected leaves and redder flowers. I think the P.anomala I have coming on from seed will be P.veitchii too looking at their leaves. :(
-
This one is labelled Paeonia anomala and I think it came from Vera Peck. Seems to have a lot of data, the collection site etc as was typical of Vera - everything but the collector's birth date and phone number - which I will pass along when I find my glasses in the garden. The flower is a bit redder than shown and the bud scales bluer. Does it look right?
johnw
-
Now I am confused. I can see the similarities between my plant and Diane's Paeonia veitchii in their leaf forms. I'm no good at taxonomic terms so I can't describe them properly but the only difference seems to be the colour (and that may well be down to differing light conditions or possibly growing conditions) with mine a much lighter green. The leaves on your plant John seem much wider and indeed solid (if you see what I mean!)
Found this on Google http://www.cababstractsplus.org/abstracts/Abstract.aspx?AcNo=20043099334 which if I understand it correctly makes P. veitchii a subspecies of P. anomola
-
From what I've read about the anomola-veitchii contingency is that anomola blooms a few weeks before veitchii, bears its flowers singly, while those of veitchii are normally in 2s and 3s and smaller. Foliage is minimally finer for veitchii, but not a good indicator. The carpels for anomola are glabrous, while for veitchii they are tormentose.
If these differences are correct, then the species should be easy to seperate from the carpels alone.
I have a plant in the garden that I purchased as veitchii, but it flowers before my anomola. It does have multi-flowers per stem and the flowers are smaller than anomola and violet-purple. The leaves are finer cut than my anomola.
My anomola has pinker flowers, held singly and much larger.
-
P.anomola looks very different here to the pics in 'Perennials' by Phillips and Rix. Could it be a mistake in naming that has been passed down with the plants?
-
Maybe it's an anomaly David. ;D
-
re: Paeonia anomala
Having found my glasses I now can see the book and the faded original label from Vera: Source: AC 11/96, C. Asia, to 18", crimson red, open birch forest, 3....
Obviously this is a hybrid. I suspect the AC may be Alleyne Cook of North Vancouver as there is no Paeonia anomala seed on the 1995 or 1996 AGCBC seed exs.
It will be interesting to see the flower, foliage is pretty good.
johnw
-
Maybe it's an anomaly David. ;D
;D ;D ;D
-
Peony flowers
-
Great varieties Guff; all so different - peony 4 is my favourite
-
Beautiful!
-
Hello all,
I am new to this forum. And I know that it is a bit late to post actual pictures of Peonies. I hope I can do that next year. I cultivate a lot of species of Paeonia especially interested in tree peonies. Here a welcome picture of Paeonia rockii. On the left, there is a Paeonia ludlowii, foreground (already passed) Paeonia anomala ssp. intermedia, white is Paeonia ostii 'Fen Dan Bei' and in the background Paeonia beresowskii. This is not my garden, this is the collection of Wädenswil (Switzerland) and a lot of my plants originate from plants in this collection. Hope you enjoy it.
It is very nice that you just can post your pictures straight from your Desktop. In other forums I post (mostly Cypripedium forums) it is more complicate.
Best regards
Lukas
-
A very warm welcome to this Forum, Lukas. :)
We do hope that the system proves easy to all to use and you have posted a very beautiful picture for your first!
P. rockii has to be one of the most beautiful af all the paeonias, in my opinion. 8)
-
Welcome to the Forum Lukas and thank you for your very nice first picture. You will find many Forumists are interested in Peonies and you will also find we are much interested in your beautiful country.
-
Hi Lukas, what a terrific photo to start with in this wonderful Forum - you will feel at home in no time with all the interest and advice (if your need it!) from Members....tree peonies are fabulous and there are some great examples here to enjoy :)
-
Welcome to the family Lukas ! :D
I'm sure you will enjoy yourself here - we certainly enjoyed your first picture ! An amazing plant !
Thanks for joining in.
-
Thank you all for the warm welcome
re anomala or veitchii
I have read that some of you have problems to distinguish anomala and veitchii. I try to show you the differences
Regelian is absolutely right. I cultivate both species in my garden. There are some differences as mentioned:
veitchii has up to 4 flowers (axillary flowers, similar to lactiflora), anomala has 1 flower
veitchii has tomentose carpels, anomala glabrous
these two are the most obvious differences. further:
veitchii has finer leaves than anomala
flower colour is more or less similar (veitchii is never reddish)
veitchii has smaller flowers than anomala
veitchii is usually a shorter plant than anomala
veitchii carries its flowers more in the leaves, anomala has them above the leaves
veitchii has 2 - 3 carpels, (except ssp. altaica) anomala has 3 - 5 carpels
But the veitchii anomala complex is still under research. At the moment there are:
P. veitchii ssp. veitchii var veitchii (Type, China)
P. veitchii ssp. veitchii var. woodwardii (has hairs on the veins, China)
p. veitchii ssp. altaica (ex. beresowskii) (has larger flowers and a taller habit, 4-5 carpels, altai mountains)
P. anomala ssp. anomala (single magenta flower, from Finnland through Russia to NW China)
P. anomala ssp. hybrida (ex. intermedia) (huge rose flowers, very tall habit, finer dissected leaves, from Finnland through Russia to the altai mountains)
Hope this helps
Lukas
-
Some more pictures of the whole plants...
-
Thanks for that information Lucas, I think it shows that my plant, referred to earlier in the thread, is P. anomala.
-
Lukas,
some really nice Paeonies. Thanks for putting the differences between anomola and veitchii 'on paper'. Makes a nice reference.
-
Welcome, Lukas. Wonderful pictures of some wonderful Paeonia. Thank you!! :)
-
Lukas I agree with Jamie that the illustrated references are great - so much easier to see the differences.
Thanks for the great photos.
-
I am glad that I could clarify the situation around veitchii. Sometimes it is really hard if you don't know on which detail you should look. Pictures always helped me a lot to get an imagination on how this species should look like except its characteristics.
-
Amazingly, it's almost peony season here in the Southern Hemisphere! Pic taken this morning
[attachthumb=1]
cheers
fermi
-
Fermi,
Is that Herbaceous, or a tree paeonia? Looks like it might be a Herbaceous by the growth habit, but that is WAY too early. I have 'Destiny' in bud here at the moment.
-
Hi Paul,
I was a bit hesitant to put a name to it as it's the one we in Southern Australia grow as P. mascula ssp russii, but if you look back at the start of this thread you'll see that that name is in dispute for this plant!
Mine is a seedling from a plant of Chris Yee's; he got his as a seedling from his mum, Wilma, who got her plant as seed from...who else: Otto! So it's been going around the AGS VG and FCHS Rock garden group for many years now! I've posted pics of it most years in the spring in the SH.
I'll have to check when it flowered last year.
cheers
fermi
-
Fermi,
Is that the single strong pink one just across from your front door? I think it was just opening when we were down there last September? Noted in my memory as it was beautiful, and so early. Far earlier than I had ever thought of for herbaceous types.
-
Fermi,
Is that the single strong pink one just across from your front door? I think it was just opening when we were down there last September? Noted in my memory as it was beautiful, and so early. Far earlier than I had ever thought of for herbaceous types.
No, I think it may've had finished before you visited; that one was probably P. cambessedesii. see reply #116 on this link here: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2436.105 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2436.105)
The P.m.ssp.r. is like the one Lesley posted at the start of this thread.
chers
fermi
-
Fermi,
Gotcha. I couldn't remember the name, but it also stayed in memory because that was a species I grew and loved a number of years back, but lost along with a couple of others species one particularly hot summer. Such a glorious pink. I hope you'll show it to us when it comes into flower too? ;)
-
Paul,
it's just coming out of dormancy so hopefully will avoid the frosts.
cheers
fermi
-
The Paeonia mascula ssp russii came into full bloom on the weekend,
[attachthumb=1]
Admired by Miss Soo-Ti,
[attachthumb=2]
and the bees,
[attachthumb=3]
cheers
fermi
-
Hi Fermi ,
Nice plant !!!
I saw similar types on Sicily - the P. russoi from Sardinia and from the greek island looks a bit different .
Happy gowing
Hans
-
Admired by Me-too - gorgeous Fermi :)
-
Admired by Me-too - gorgeous Fermi :)
I think we all agree, Fermi is indeed truly gorgeous. :-* Nice paeony too. ;D
-
Thank you, Martin , and Robin,
My Paeonia cambessedesii is still a day or two away from flowering, but this one was in flower at my friend Cathy's place on the weekend:
[attachthumb=1]
[attachthumb=2]
I think it's a bit different in form to mine.
cheers
fermi
-
Fermi,
Beautiful, both of them. I particularly like the russii, but have a soft spot (and love the colour as it opens) for cambessedessii as I used to grow it and lost it. Here, I have the good old rockii type 'Destiny' and an P. ostii in flower at the moment (actually, the latter has just gone over).
-
Our own Paeonia cambessedesii is now open,
[attachthumb=1]
[attachthumb=2]
[attachthumb=3]
Maybe this year it'll set seed; or does it need another clone to cross pollinate?
cheers
fermi
-
Gorgeous, Fermi. That is the colour of the one I had. So strong!!
-
Fantastic, Fermi, a real beauty and great photos CU & WS
-
A very good colour Fermi. My original is paler than that but I have hopes for seedlings from a different source. I think it does set seed on its own (mine hasn't yet) because a friend gets seed on hers and she has just the one, no others around in the gardens of local philistines. Of course they could be hybrids. ???