Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Seedy Subjects! => Grow From Seed => Topic started by: maggiepie on February 22, 2009, 06:17:31 PM
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In my lucky dip selection of surplus seed from the seed exchange, I received some Dierama jucundum seeds which are starting to germinate.
I can't find any pics of this plant anywhere, am hoping someone can post a pic or two.
Any tips on growing them would be appreciated, am not sure if they will be hardy here.
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I can't find any information on these seeds.
They have germinated and now appear to be imitating daylillies.
They are putting up green spikes.
I have stuck them in a pot, burying the root and letting the seed sit on the surface, don't have a clue what to do with them and almost certain they will not be hardy here. ??? ??? ??? ???
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Helen, it seems they don't like wet, so a dry sunny spot seems right....I found that out , and pretty much only that from abotanical reference I found about the type locations of dried specimens :-\
There seem to be a few nurseries carrying it in the UK, haven't found a photo yet, though ....... described as having pale mauve bells on wiry stems, or silvery pink bells...... stems circa 90 cm high.
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Maggi, I had seen the Nursery listings ( seed grown), plus a few other links that led nowhere, plus this one
http://www.sabonet.org.za/downloads/14_plant_red_data_lists/lesotho_list.pdf
The description sounds lovely so I wonder why there are no pics available.
Surely someone has some :-[
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Hi:
Dierama is a genus with a good number of species. Some are rare and almost unknown, hence images of many are not in the Internet, but they do appear in botanical publications.
Many species are mountain plants and surprisingly hardy in England, N. Europe and parts of N. America.
They are practically evergreen but dormant in winter. They hybridize very easily and pure seed is difficult to obtain unless of course a single species is in flower at a given time.
They are very long lived plants but notoriously difficult to transplant. The best method is to sow a few seeds per pot and potting one every year without disturbing the roots. This is why dieramas are sold as potted plants and not as dry dormant corms.
In the wild many are found in seeps in peaty soils that remain moist from spring to autumn.
Best
Alberto
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Hello Alberto, thank you for your information.
I have already transplanted the seedlings into pots but have 7 in one pot which is probably too many 'if' they should all survive.
Do you think I should repot them now before their roots have time to grow much bigger?
About half of them are putting leaves up.
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Hi:
Those 7 in the same pot, do not disturb them. As they fill the pot with roots just move the whole to a larger pot and leave them fill it with roots to finally transplant them to their definite location in the garden. The trick is when the roots fill the pot the rootball remains intact. When they fill the pot, you can see root tips peeping through the drainage holes.
Soon you will notice that the undisturbed ones far outgrow those that were pottend on or pricked.
Alberto
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Thanks Alberto, I will leave them alone.
I have 7 in one pot, 5 in one and 3 in one.
I started the seeds off in a baggie with damp vermiculite and just potted them up once they had a root, with some starting to get leaves.
How long do you think it takes them to flower from seed?
I have never seen a Dierama of any kind in flower.
Thanks again,
Helen
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It it difficult to tell, but my guess is from the fourth season on.
Leave them in their pots and do as described.
Foliage is evergreen even in winter when they are dormant.
Common name for Dieramas is "Angels' fishing rod", the stems are very wiry and pendulous and the flowers mostly drooping. They are very attractive plants and there are a number of images in the Internet. Most Dieramas are similar and different species have different flower color.
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This thread has spured me on to ordering a selection of dieramas and galadiolus from silverhills. I have grown some species from their seed in the past and they have done really well. They have quite a few different ones on their list. Certainly lovely plants to have around.
Susan
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Hi:
Every single year they manage to include new or not in cultivation species! Again, it has happened many times that a species is offered once and not again.
A collection of Dieramas and summer growing Gladioli sounds very exciting, but do not forget the summer growing Watsonias.
Regards
Alberto
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Alberto, I will do as you say and hope for the best. :)
Susan, good luck with your seeds, I'll be able to look at your pics if mine croak :)
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Hi maggiepie! I have dierama seeds as well and I would like to sow them. Could you please tell me what compost did you used? At what temperature did they germinate?
Thank you .. :)
P.S.: Alberto, are you from Italy? ;D
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Hi Mad (?) is that short for Madeline?
I had my seeds in a small ziplock baggie with some damp vermiculite, I kept the baggie at room temp which is between 16-18C in my house.
They started to germinate after about 3 weeks and I potted them up a week later.
I was surprised at how fast they germinated, plus every seed germinated.
Hope this helps. :) :)
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Yes, Mad stands for Madalina ;D
Thank you for the information! Unfortunately, in my house the medium temp is about 10°C, maybe too cold? I could wait until late spring and then do it.
Thanks again :)
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Thanks Helen! I will use your method since you have had success. Some Dierama seeds have just arrived and there is more on the way. I tried to get hardier ones, but will also experiment with some. Are you putting them outside? I suspect we are in a similiar climate.
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Hi:
You MUST wait until the spring! These plants are summer growers, this meaning they are dormant in winter and "wake up" in spring. Seed must be sown at the same time the adult plants wake up naturally.
Alberto
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Robert, mine are indoors under lights, I couldn't find any information about them when I first received them so started them off and hoped for the best.
Alberto, I have my seedlings under lights, hopefully that will trick them into believing it is ok for them to grow.
If I can keep them growing until it is warm enough outdoors do you think they will be ok?
Not much else I can do at this stage. :-\
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Dear Maggie:
That will be perfect. They must be protected from late frosts but will enjoy outdoors as the weather turns warmer. Move them gradually to full sun.
Best wishes
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Helen, I know this thread is about the seed, but let me know if and when you are risking the adults outside. I will be testing (sacrificing) a few to the climate.
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Alberto, I will watch them like a hawk, one good thing about retirement is you have lots of time to spend with plants.
When I have a sunny day I move all my seedlings into the sunroom which warms up to around 22C, so they spend 5-6 hours in sunlight, then back to the lights.
Robert, as soon as it warms up I move all my trays of seedlings into the sun for the morning, it can be very time consuming but they seem to like it.
I also have a small greenhouse I will be able to move them to for a few months.
What zone are you in?
I was thinking of leaving mine in pots, are you going to put yours in the ground? From what I can gather they are hardy to zone7/8 up?
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Helen, I am in zone 4/5 and I have seen other species in the genus given zone 6. I will probaly experiment with leaving a few out, but protected. The others I will keep in pots. My method for plants that aren't hardy here is much the same as yours. I do like to try though.
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Robert, I would be very interested to hear what other types of less hardy plants you have succeeded in growing.
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Helen, I have just started gotten started at trying to grow things that shouldn't here. Mainly plants that are one zone past me. Some species of Arisaema for example. South African plants are getting my interest though. The less hardy Delosperma and some other succulents are working for me. Now though I have turned my eye to some of the hardier bulbous plants from South Africa. SenacaHill perennials has a nice collection of them. All are at least one or two zones above me. It is not very likely I will succeed, but some will be kept in pots and kept safe for the winter. I would like to know how your Dierama plants do.
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Robert and Helen:
There are very many East African mountain species that you could grow with the simple precaution of lifting them and storing them in boxes wih dry peat, wood shavngs, etc. for the winter. When spring arrives and frosts are over you plant them (or pot them) to make their natural growth. This is easier than storing lots of pots.
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Robert, I am pretty sure a lot of the seeds I have germinating at the moment will not be hardy here but like you I am going to try.
I am particularly interested in Erodiums and hardy geraniums and hope to get quite a few varieties of erodium seeds in the next few weeks.
Alberto, thanks for the suggestion.
I am having a real learning curve with gardening in a cold climate after spending most of my gardening life in Australia.
One thing there is no shortage of in Canada is peat.
What would be the coldest temps you can store bulbs?
I have an unheated basement that fluctuates between 6-11C in winter, would that be too warm?
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That would be very good. Lower temperatures would kill the flower buds inside the mature bulbs or impede their formation.
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Thanks Alberto, you have given me lots of ideas. :)
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These are my Dierama Jucundum seedlings, I am wondering if I am supposed to cut the tops off to thicken them up or just leave them alone ??? ??? ???
Any advice would be appreciated. :)
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Helen,
Don't cut off the tops. These are feeding the tubers and cutting them off will leave the tubers undernourished and will probably lead to death.
Having said that, I have some large clumps in the garden and I can at times resent the slow job of clearing out the dead foliage. To speed up this process last year I took the hedge cutter and simply cut the clumps to the ground. Some of the clumps came back a bit weaker but that didn't bother me as it thinned them out a bit. They can become a weed particularly if growing in a gravel area which seems to suit the seeds perfectly.
I mainly grow D. pulcherrimum in a variety of shades from white through various pinks to purple. D. montanum does well here also.
This spring I thinned out some of the clumps and gave away several sackfuls of plants. They bulk up surprisingly quickly.
Paddy
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Thanks Paddy, I probably would have cut them ( was told to do that to Daylily seedlings last year).
Do you have any pics of your plants in flower?
Would love to see some. :)
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Dear Maggie:
Cutting back the foliage of seedlings is incredible advice. The nourishment that will fatten the corms or bulbs is in the green leaves and will finally move dowmwards only when the leaves start to yellow naturally and normally at the end of the season. The younger the plants the more fragile they are.
The process of cutting with secateurs, knives, whatever, is very risky, and the only source for virus infection in bearded iris of all kinds and many other herbaceous plants. The reason for this are
compensating for the root damage involved in dividing and transplanting.
reducing the leaf surface that would act as a sail against strong winds and would make the plant tip over and become uprooted
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Hello Alberto, thanks for the advice. :)
When I was told to cut back the daylily seedlings I just assumed it was a way of pruning them as you do with clematis seedlings etc.
It didn't seem to hurt them at the time, as they just kept putting up more shoots.
I suppose using all that energy was taking away from the root develpment.
It will be interesting to see if they have survived winter and how they develop. :(
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Helen,
One would cut back a clematis to force it to produce side shoots and so produce a more bushy plant. However, I could not recommend it for daylilies of dieramas.
Now, I will attempt to post a few photographs of dieramas taken in the garden in June of 2008. I had a bit of bother posting them before dinner. They are not named varieties. They cross and seed around and so different colour variations arise. The reddish ones are D. igneum, I believe.
Hope you like them. If you want seed you could remind me in June-July of this summer. They produce large amounts of seed - one of their drawbacks as they then self-seed all over the place.
Paddy
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At long last...the end.
Paddy
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Paddy, thank you so much for posting the pics, they are all beautiful, I've never actually seen any face to face.
I especially like the whites and dark purples, and blues and pinks and and ;D ;D ;D
I wouldn't mind them seeding around but I doubt they are hardy here, I think zone 6/7 is the lowest they can take, thank goodness for pots.
Btw, I'd love some seed so you can expect a begging PM around June, if I can remember. ::)
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"When I was told to cut back the daylily seedlings I just assumed it was a way of pruning them as you do with clematis seedlings etc."
Hi:
Clematis and the other dicots have shoots in lateral branches and one can redirect the plant's energy to remaining buds.
But, in monocots, the number of buds available is limited and the number of leaves is "preprogrammed". This was said against the rainlily adice, not against Paddy practices, of course.
And Paddy, let me tell you that years ago I decided to mimic natural fires since our clump of Dierama robustum was very impressive with many dead old leaves at the base. I thought "if this happens regularly in South Africa with no harm to the plants why not try it?". So we set fire to the old foliage of the clump. Instead of the sparks and slow fire as in the wild the whole clump was swallowed by huge flames that were controlled with difficulty by throwing buckets of water on it. Needless to say, the clump never recovered and only produced weak flowering several years afterwards. So, the chaff in the wild and thoroughly dried off leaf remnants have nothing to do with plants in cultivation. Isn' t it odd?
This mentioned in case someone else is tempted to start a wild fire
Regards
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Alberto, thanks for your explanation, I will be passing on the information to my friend.
Daylilies are something I had never grown.
I had to smile reading your fire story, I might have been tempted to do the same thing ::)
I do love this fabulous forum, I learn new things every day. ;D
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Helen,
You should surely be able to source plenty of daylily cultivars as they are a very popular plant in the USA where innumerable new cultivars are introduced each year. A recently published book might be of interest: The New Encyclopedia of Daylilies, Ted L. Petit and John P. Peat, Timber Press, Oregon, 2008, HB, 408pp, US$ 49.99, ISBN 13:978-0-88192-858-7. It doesn't give a lot of information on cultivation and general care though, to be honest, it is unnecessary as they are the very easiest of plants in the garden and increase very well - an expensive plant with variegated foliage bought a year ago as a single shoot was divided into eleven plants this spring here.
Alberto,
Someone should have had a camera to hand for that incident. It would make amusing viewing on the forum! I have heard it recommended for pampas grass but have never tried it. I ever planted only one of these in the garden and removed it after a few years as I didn't like it.
Paddy
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Paddy, I should have mentioned I am not very fond of Daylilies, although I quite like the yellows.
I do however have friends who are very avid collectors and will pass along the information regarding the book.
It's funny you mentioned pampas grass as Alberto's story reminded me of a huge clump I had in my garden in Australia, ( must have been before it was outlawed).
If you got rid of one you can imagine what an awful job it was trying to get rid of an established clump in a hot climate!!
After trying to hack it down, the boys decided it was time for the kerosene to come out, thank goodness it was out in the middle of the yard. ::)
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What wonderful pics of my favorite Iridaceaes! I tried to start "the national collection of Germany" with Dieramas about two years ago and bought every Dierama I could get (well, not to many so far!). Unfortunately the severe winter last year may have killed at least half of it. I am very curious which will come back.
If you are so interested in Dierama, why not try to buy the most recommendable book about that genus: Dierama (The Hairbells of Africa) by O.M. Hilliard and B.L. Burtt, Illustrations by Auriol Batten. ISBN 1-874802-01-7, Acorn Books First published in 1991. You may be lucky and get it second hand if you try for a while. I was very happy when I got it through the internet.
Reading this thread I looked for a picture and the description of Dierama jucundum. It is in the book, but considering the copy right I am of course not allowed to post it here. If you want me to send you a scan, Maggie, please let me know. I think that is allowed(?).
Funnyly when I opened the page of D. jucundum there was a dry stamped flower, nicely faded between a small peace of equally faded newspaper from 1993. I like second hand books ;).
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Hello Iris,
What a lovely surprise to find the dried flower in the book, it is nice to find books that have been cherished by someone before you.
I will PM you. :)