Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

General Subjects => General Forum => Topic started by: Kristl Walek on February 18, 2009, 02:04:49 PM

Title: Moving Plants...
Post by: Kristl Walek on February 18, 2009, 02:04:49 PM
As I will be moving gardens in late July of this year, I am starting to lay awake nights with a running inventory of plants to be potted in the spring going through my brain...I would rather not risk killing some of these by attempting to dig them. This is the first batch, more to follow.

May I have your comments, thoughts and ideas:

Daphne arbuscula
D. dominii (kosaninii)
Mature Hellebores
Paeonia species (I assume these will all be fine).
Glaucidium palmatum (have never moved these, am assuming they will be fine?)
Clematis species


Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Carlo on February 18, 2009, 02:16:28 PM
Kristl,

Do you really have a choice?

Unless you're selling to someone who appreciates the value of the plants and has the skills to continue to care for them, you risk killing them by leaving them in place. Everyone knows how careful you are with your seed--just apply the same sensitivity to the digging and potting of your plants. For example, do it in cool weather to lessen the stress....

People have said you can't move Daphnes, but I have dug and transplanted (ok, it's only been a half dozen or so shrubs) without losing a plant. Glaucidium should probably be treated the same as paeonia. I think your instincts will serve you well....


Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: JohnnyD on February 18, 2009, 02:26:52 PM
I think it is worthwhile to do a 'half' dig early - that is to sever roots on two, three or even four sides but leave the plant in position - as long as possible before moving the plants.
That way the plants have chance to make new roots within the root ball. It also makes the subsequent digging a lot less stressful to the digger as well as the plant. :)
I am also sure that many plants which are regarded as difficult to move are best dug when starting to grow, paeony for example.
Hellebores may even be rejuvenated by a bit of splitting up.

Good Luck Kristl - be Brave. :D
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Maggi Young on February 18, 2009, 02:32:34 PM
I'm with Johnny on the half dig thing.... especially for shrubby subjects.  I know your buyer has horticultural interests, so will appreciate some things, but I think you should dig and move anything womanly possible!! Even if you dig some things, split them and take only a part.... I think there is just too much fab stuff in your place to leave.  Daphnes are much more forgivving to a move at a large size than many give them credit for.

You will see in the Let me Introduce Myself pages, some posts from Simon who has experience of carting around a tonne of bulbs, orchids and alpines from the UK to Bulgaria, so such things can be done! I would think you'll hit rather more than one tonne, though!
Good luck, Kristl! Shame it is so far for us all to join you for a digging party  :-\
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Susan Band on February 18, 2009, 04:16:50 PM
Kystal,
Don't be tempted into trying to split the Glaucidum. it should move okay if left intact.
Susan
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: gote on February 18, 2009, 04:38:27 PM
Susan just said it.
Glaucidium dislikes moving.
This could be the common woodland fallacy.
Many woodlanders put out new roots in the middle of the season say at flowering time or just after.
That is:  ONLY at that time. The result is that if they are moved at the time the roots start to develop they are fine. (well usually)
If they are moved later, when supposedly dormant, they are set back very much because they do not develop sufficient amount of roots at that season and will be underfed with nutrients and water for nearly a full year. Trilliums may sleep over the next summer entirely and appear one year later.
For this reason I always move Trilliums and Lilium martagon just as the flowers begin to fade  (If possible)
I am afraid that I do not know when Glaucidiums put out new roots Does anyone??
Good luck
Göte

Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: cohan on February 18, 2009, 09:50:40 PM
kristl--
where are you moving to--have you found a place out here?
cohan
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Kristl Walek on February 21, 2009, 11:42:08 PM
Cohan,

My "saga" is outlined in my thread here called "My Bit Of Heaven"...but in short, I spent a good year seriously looking for property in your fair Alberta (which, as you know is where my heart lies), only to find that all I could afford was a very pretty outhouse.

So, I literally turned my body around to face the rising sun instead, and decided that I can very easily live with the ocean in Nova Scotia, and that is where I am heading this summer.

Appropriately, these are the "Flower Pot Rocks" in the Bay Of Fundy, Nova Scotia.
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: cohan on February 22, 2009, 12:18:28 AM
wow! that is a turnabout!
i will have to have a look at that thread..
on the plus side, nova scotia must be a couple of zones at least warmer than here!
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Lesley Cox on February 24, 2009, 08:19:17 PM
Mature Hellebores will survive being lifted and out of the ground for at least two years although they do root where they're placed and, in effect, plant themselves. I'd go with the half or three quarters dig for them and most others on your list, including the Glaucidium. Where roots are severed, new, fibrous roots are made quickly. I certainly wouldn't leave it to someone else who may not treasure it. What you would be doing is wrenching, a common and successful practice with most shrubs, small trees, trilliums etc etc. I've successfully moved several Glaucidiums, garden to new garden.
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: gote on February 25, 2009, 09:26:45 AM
Lesley,
What time of year - or rather at what stage of growth - did you move the glaucidiums?
Göte
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Lesley Cox on February 25, 2009, 08:20:00 PM
I moved them in November from Timaru to Dunedin (early summer) and from Dunedin to out of Dunedin in mid winter (July). As well, I've moved the smaller plants into large pots (plastic bags), usually in autumn/early winter, well before top growth starts.
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Kristl Walek on March 02, 2009, 01:47:47 AM
So that is post-flowering, Leslie, for that first move....
What concerns me is that I have a rather large colony, all growing very tightly together and I assume, with the roots intertwined. They will not be able to be taken with intact root/soil ball, as many (most) will be connected underground. I am assuming they are taprooted?

Trilliums, on the other hand, I have absolutely no concerns about---having moved these at almost every point in their growth over the years, without ever having an issue.
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Sinchets on March 02, 2009, 09:31:08 AM
Hi there I just noticed this thread. We were lucky to have timed our move to Bulgaria for the end of August, so many of our plants were dormant- or were able to be forced into dormancy. We didn't loose any of the bulbs, corms or tubers we brought. Unfortunately this was all before the accession to the European Union by Bulgaria- so everything had to be checked by DEFRA and given a Phytosanitary certificate- this meant rootstocks had to be scrubbed clean of any garden soil and moved bare rooted. This was our Peony, Trillium, Disporum, Polygonatum .... collection. I knew the majority of my plants would not make it like this so I had been collecting seeds of my alpines for the last 2 seasons to start anew. Heart breaking to leave behind a dozen or so raised alpine beds, 2 alpine houses and an orchid house and several large areas of herbaceous planting to the buyers of the house. They had commented on how much they had liked the garden and I had hoped there would be hope for the plants I had to leave behind. I now know the whole garden was cleared out by a 'landscape gardener' and put to turf. Meanwhile in the back garden a sunny 'Mediterranean' garden is now buried under a conservatory. We spent the last week in England begging friends to take plants from us: young magnolias we knew we would never seen flower; plants we had bought from Crug that just couldn't be taken bare rooted the contents of a tropical orchid house and a cactus/ succulent collection... Luckily the plus side far outweighed these losses we would never have been able to garden on this scale where were outside of a lottery win. If we had been able to move plants with rootballs intact we'd have needed an articulated lorry, so I guess that made some of my choices of what to bring and what to leave easier. In the end our trailer of plants really did weigh 1ton and on the whole most settled in well with only a few losses from plants that couldn't adapt to how dry summers are here. What I would say though is if you can take it ,then take it. I have moments where I remember a plant, and I remember when and where i bought it, how long it took from seed. I remember its first flowering- and rue the fact it never set seed. Then think about how it is now landfill somewhere in rural Lincolnshire!
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: cohan on March 02, 2009, 07:16:33 PM
I now know the whole garden was cleared out by a 'landscape gardener' and put to turf. Meanwhile in the back garden a sunny 'Mediterranean' garden is now buried under a conservatory.

that is heartbreaking, but i guess you have to have said goodbye before leaving! having the space is a great plus, though :)
if its not too personal, may i ask what was the reason for a move to bulgaria?
luckily my big crosscountry move (summer of 2007) only involved a collection of cacti and succulents that was housed inside an apartment! so i did get rid of lots of things, but brought many along; i should have gone bare root though, the reduced weight would have meant i could have brought some furniture and things...lol
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Sinchets on March 02, 2009, 07:27:26 PM
Nothing personal just something we had both been wanting to do for some time- to have the space to grow and sell the plants we love. It was also a good chance to get away from the rat-race  :)
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Lesley Cox on March 02, 2009, 07:32:16 PM
Kristl, I don't think the Glaucidium is tap-rooted, or at least, I certainly didn't see anything that looked like a tap root either broken or whole, when I lifted my bigger ones, just a great mass of roots and soil, If you are hoping to move the wonderful plant in your picture above, I still think the advice to spade down round it now, is the right way to go. You'll need to go quite deep and I'd say you'll need a couple of strong men to lift it, when the time comes, maybe moving it to new place in its own wheelbarrow or similar.

Simon, Trilliums, Disporum, Polygonatum, even Paeonia, are all quite happy to be bare-rooted and I doubt if they would have suffered much at all, so long as you could have got them heeled into the ground in Bulgaria quite quickly. Any plants with those thick, rather elastic roots will take a tremendous amount of abuse if the need arises. It's the very fine rooted plants like Rhododendron, Saxifraga, Campanula that really suffer - or die. And believe me, I know about bare rooting, having imported plants to New Zealand from the UK a number of times. Not the slightest vestige of organic matter may be left among the roots so imagine teasing out every tiny spot of peat from a small Rhodo species. A heart-breaking task as the roots come away with the peat.
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Kristl Walek on March 02, 2009, 07:51:23 PM
Kristl, I don't think the Glaucidium is tap-rooted, or at least, I certainly didn't see anything that looked like a tap root either broken or whole, when I lifted my bigger ones, just a great mass of roots and soil, If you are hoping to move the wonderful plant in your picture above, I still think the advice to spade down round it now, is the right way to go. You'll need to go quite deep and I'd say you'll need a couple of strong men to lift it, when the time comes, maybe moving it to new place in its own wheelbarrow or similar.


Leslie, or anyone....just so I have this clear. I do my half-dig when?
Early in the spring before they flower?

I suppose all around the entire colony....and then do my final dig after flowering?....which would be June, probably.

Then I will have to find something big enough to contain the clump (and I don't move until the end of July). Ouch.

(Leslie we are still in hard winter here right now- 3 more months before the Glaucidiums appear).
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: cohan on March 02, 2009, 08:18:10 PM
Nothing personal just something we had both been wanting to do for some time- to have the space to grow and sell the plants we love. It was also a good chance to get away from the rat-race  :)

thats great :) any family there?
some of my reasons were similar, plus coming to help out my mom;
--i really miss some city things, especially not having to drive--here, you cant go anywhere at all without driving-nearest service station(gas and emergency groceries/junk food) is something around 6-7miles, the town where i work is 20miles(32km)etc etc..
but the space is great, and i CAN just walk out into fairly natural habitat....
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Lesley Cox on March 02, 2009, 08:57:22 PM
I probably would have done the wrench in autumn but early spring as soon as the ground thaws should be OK then the final dig just before you move. Give it a darn good deep water first if the weather is hot or dry. Or you could do the final dig as the flowers finish but leave it sitting there until moving time.
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Sinchets on March 02, 2009, 09:49:41 PM
Hello Lesley- yes the Polygonatums, Peonies etc. all did cope with the move. We had other plants which I am sure some were very happy about it- the bearded irises were stunning the next year - even though we thought they might sulk for a year. We had other surprises too- we really weren't expecting plants such as Jeffersonia or Ypsilandra to be very happy with being bare-rooted, but they recovered well. As you say though it was mainly the alpines that were left behind- though i had collected seed of about 90% of them.
Hi Cohan- I think I have reached that age where cities have their uses, but i wouldn't want to be too near one. We are 16km from a small town with good shops and 60km from the nearest city- up in the mountains where our street lights turn off at 10pm and all you can see is the stars. Neither of us have family here, but i know mine stopped thinking I was crazy when they came out and saw how amazing it is ;)
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: cohan on March 02, 2009, 10:46:13 PM
on the topic of pre-digging--
would this also be useful for shrubs, saplings etc?
i have a lot of self sown native trees and shrubs, and might like to move some around--specifically spruce, red osier dogwoods..
possibly birch and honeysuckles, amelanchier etc though i'm thinking maybe cuttings are the way to go on those?

-simon--glad you are so happy with your new home :) sometimes i'd like to be in the mountains, though here, that means like zone 1....lol
here, there are no street lights at all.. although the one neighbour close enough to see-- a couple hundred metres away, with a line of trees between (other directions its a half mile or more)--does have an outdoor light as many farms do...
sometimes, if  i am quiet, outdoors, there are no human sounds at all, though often there is some motorised sound a mile or two away, and vehicles pass occasionally...
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Maggi Young on March 02, 2009, 11:12:53 PM
Quote
on the topic of pre-digging--
would this also be useful for shrubs, saplings etc?
i have a lot of self sown native trees and shrubs, and might like to move some around--specifically spruce, red osier dogwoods..
possibly birch and honeysuckles, amelanchier etc though i'm thinking maybe cuttings are the way to go on those?

Yes Cohan, we always do a pre-dig to a good depth around subjects like those before moving .....good success rates too.... and not just because the back strain is lessened by spreading the effort!!
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: cohan on March 03, 2009, 02:12:15 AM
Quote
on the topic of pre-digging--
would this also be useful for shrubs, saplings etc?
i have a lot of self sown native trees and shrubs, and might like to move some around--specifically spruce, red osier dogwoods..
possibly birch and honeysuckles, amelanchier etc though i'm thinking maybe cuttings are the way to go on those?

Yes Cohan, we always do a pre-dig to a good depth around subjects like those before moving .....good success rates too.... and not just because the back strain is lessened by spreading the effort!!


thanks, maggi--so for plants like this, where flowering season isnt an issue, how long would you leave them after the pre-dig? if i do it in early spring (which isnt that early here..i doubt i'd be able to dig anything til probably well into april) when would i move them? mid summer heat isnt an issue here, it can be hot (30Cplus) but doesnt usually stay that way long enough to stress plants
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Maggi Young on March 03, 2009, 01:06:55 PM
The idea of pre-digging is to encourage the plants to form new fibrous roots around the cut edges so that they will get a fast start into establishing in their new home. I would think a few weeks, say a couple of months is enough after  digging for that, though it could be longer. Extra water during this period is as important as after replanting. Then you can pretty much move and  replant at will.... always supposing the weather conditions are not too severe, either way, cold or hot! After moving, treat the plant like a giant cutting.... that is to say, give lots of water (and I would suggest some bone meal mixed in the soil of the new planting hole too, as a boost) and make sure the plant is staked if in an exposed position.... we favour low level multi stakes for that purpose.... keeps the root ball steady but lets the top move more freely to strengthen up.
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: cohan on March 03, 2009, 06:32:31 PM
The idea of pre-digging is to encourage the plants to form new fibrous roots around the cut edges so that they will get a fast start into establishing in their new home. I would think a few weeks, say a couple of months is enough

good tips, thanks! i had been mostly thinking of very small seedlings(under a foot), but there are some several feet tall too....
later i realised this could also help with a couple of other things i had wanted to move-- a vining honeysuckle that has been in its spot for years, and was quite large, but it had declined and i cut it back a lot, and a virginia creeper..
my mom had planted these a few years or more ago, and basically right in front of the house, where i'd rather have a rock garden! plus the creeper doesnt have anywhere to creep there...
these, i expect will be a real trauma to move...lol
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Maggi Young on March 03, 2009, 07:11:13 PM
Quote
these, i expect will be a real trauma to move...
Just start the exercise programme, the steroids and the extra vitamins now, Cohan!  ;D
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: cohan on March 04, 2009, 07:30:59 AM
Quote
these, i expect will be a real trauma to move...
Just start the exercise programme, the steroids and the extra vitamins now, Cohan!  ;D

good idea! seriously, moving those is nothing to what i have planned (fantasised perhaps i should say..):
veggie gardens, herb gardens, wildflowers in shade and bog, rock gardens for sempervivums and european allies, perhaps for rosularia and turkish friends, for western north american alpines, for cacti and western north american dryland plants, and a few other things...
most of these are starting from scratch, including digging sod(makes it sound so simple and clean!) and lots and lots of tree roots..
i may not finish all of these this year... :o ::) :-[ :'( i couldnt decide which icon was best, so i opted for several! ;)
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Sinchets on March 04, 2009, 08:52:46 AM
i may not finish all of these this year... [/quote]
...but it's the grand designs that make you leap out of bed in the morning  ;)
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Maggi Young on March 04, 2009, 11:49:16 AM

...but it's the grand designs that make you leap out of bed in the morning  ;)




Only thing that speeds me out of bed is a sharply placed foot in the back! :-[
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Sinchets on March 04, 2009, 01:13:30 PM
 Only thing that speeds me out of bed is a sharply placed foot in the back! :-[
[/quote]
Not even for a coffee on the terrace with a mountain view?  ;)
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Maggi Young on March 04, 2009, 01:16:05 PM
I'd try moving the bed nearer the window.....  ;D
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: cohan on March 04, 2009, 07:13:18 PM
i may not finish all of these this year...
...but it's the grand designs that make you leap out of bed in the morning  ;)
[/quote]

i may not be much more of a leaper than maggi...lol, though i have a feeling that while i am trying to get some beds ready for veggies, i may have to work on that, i'm much more of a stay up late than get up early type, but cant do much digging after sundown!
--coffee with a mountain view sounds good though-i hope you are not in an avalanche zone like hans (as seen in weather now!)
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Sinchets on March 04, 2009, 07:25:53 PM
Fortunately not- though if we get as much rain as they forecast tomorrow, we could be slowly sliding down the hillside!
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: cohan on March 04, 2009, 07:40:20 PM
Fortunately not- though if we get as much rain as they forecast tomorrow, we could be slowly sliding down the hillside!

good luck with the rain! we are up to around +5C today, then later today it will get very windy, blow in some more snow (couple cm) and a couple more days with highs around -10C..no serious melting here yet, but when it comes, we will be very wet...lol

then i will have to get at that digging as soon as ground is thawed and dried a bit--the last couple of years were unusually wet from late spring on, and many people didnt get gardens (veg) planted, so my aim is to get it done early, before the rains start....
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Sinchets on March 04, 2009, 08:02:30 PM
I'm with you on that- I did a first dig of some virgin land, to extend the veggiepatch, at the start of February after the snow melted, then it came back- so now i feel all out of time. So much do before the very wet soil gets too hard to dig. Most of our last lot of snow melted today so standing water in the meadow and drainage ditches all  running full. We are also due more snow next week- seems that Spring in the Northern Hemisphere is a little undecided this year.
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: cohan on March 05, 2009, 12:26:43 AM
I'm with you on that- I did a first dig of some virgin land, to extend the veggiepatch, at the start of February after the snow melted, then it came back- so now i feel all out of time. So much do before the very wet soil gets too hard to dig. Most of our last lot of snow melted today so standing water in the meadow and drainage ditches all  running full. We are also due more snow next week- seems that Spring in the Northern Hemisphere is a little undecided this year.
i think that 'expect the unexpected' would be a good weather motto for these times;
our real spring is still far away, though we should start having much higher ups between the downs--just today, with one 'warm' day, and the now much stronger sun, there was very noticeable melting around buildings and trees, or anywhere there's something dark to draw the sun..
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Rodger Whitlock on March 05, 2009, 04:52:07 AM
As I will be moving gardens in late July of this year . . .

Daphne arbuscula
D. dominii (kosaninii)
Mature Hellebores
Paeonia species (I assume these will all be fine).
Glaucidium palmatum (have never moved these, am assuming they will be fine?)
Clematis species

When I moved in 1988, I brought along a specimen of Daphne retusa. It established in its new quarters without turning a hair. The method: in late Juiy as soon as I knew I'd be moving, I used a long transplanting spade to cut a circle all the way around the plant. At this remove in time I can only guess how big the circle was, but let's say 8"/20 cm diameter.

When moving day arrived in early October (two months later), I lifted the daphne by cutting under the root ball and lifting it without further disturbance into a largish pot. Planting out came the next spring when I started to get the new garden under control.

I only offer this as a sort of signpost on the path to "success in moving established daphnes". Your species may be an entirely different kettle of fish.

Besides the daphnes, the others should move reasonably easily.

PS: edited to correct 8' to 8"
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Kristl Walek on March 16, 2009, 05:49:44 PM
Phase Two Moving Plants Question:

Mature Gentiana lutea???
or will this require a backhoe and a 10 foot deep digging hole?
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Maggi Young on March 16, 2009, 06:26:47 PM
Kristl, may I ask what type of explosives you might have access to ? ;)
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: David Shaw on March 16, 2009, 07:32:31 PM
If it all goes horribly wrong you can try distilling 'enzian schnapps' :P
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Maggi Young on March 16, 2009, 09:00:52 PM
If it all goes horribly wrong you can try distilling 'enzian schnapps' :P

 Cunning Plan "B", that, I like it!
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: JohnnyD on March 17, 2009, 03:11:41 PM
We had the pleasure of a number of bottles of 'special' schnapps provided by the Tyrol tourist board on the occasion of them sponsoring an AGS display at Tatton Park.
At first we offered it to those who joined the society. :)
After a (very) short time we were pressing it on those who DIDN'T join, and no amount of effort from the herb society next door would improve it. :(
How this compares to enzian schnapps I don't know, but stick to G&T, it's safer! ;D
J.
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Kristl Walek on March 17, 2009, 03:27:04 PM
unfortunately i am an absolute celibate where it concerns alcohol---i have tried, but i simply can't manage to enjoy it.

but, back to the gentiana lutea---must i *really* start these again from scratch and wait 8-10 years for maturity?

has anyone ever managed to lift one, damage to plant assumed, and did it recover?



Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Carol Shaw on March 17, 2009, 04:43:26 PM
We had the pleasure of a number of bottles of 'special' schnapps provided by the Tyrol tourist board on the occasion of them sponsoring an AGS display at Tatton Park.
At first we offered it to those who joined the society. :)
After a (very) short time we were pressing it on those who DIDN'T join, and no amount of effort from the herb society next door would improve it. :(
How this compares to enzian schnapps I don't know, but stick to G&T, it's safer! ;D
J.


Johnny some schnapps is drinkable most is dire! as for the enzian schnapps my memory says stick with G & T :)
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: David Shaw on March 17, 2009, 04:44:05 PM
Sorry I can't help with a sensible answere, Kristl. I imagine that it would be a very unusual occurrence for a gardener wanting to move mature plants. I have just planted three seedings from seed collected in the Pirin about five years ago and they are still very small. I am saying that they are Gentian lutea, they looked very like although they are outwith the normal range for this species?
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: gote on March 17, 2009, 06:05:54 PM
Gentana lute IS difficult. Not only are the roots riveted on the other side of the globe :)  The plant is sensitive to root disturbance. My sucess has been 50% or less and with considerable weakening. By all means do try and if you see some smaller side-root with bud. Separate it It has a better chanse on its own. I would also thin out the new shoots to 50%.
Göte
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Kristl Walek on March 18, 2009, 07:22:52 PM
Gentana lute IS difficult. Not only are the roots riveted on the other side of the globe :)  The plant is sensitive to root disturbance. My sucess has been 50% or less and with considerable weakening. By all means do try and if you see some smaller side-root with bud. Separate it It has a better chanse on its own. I would also thin out the new shoots to 50%.

Thank you, Gote...
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Lesley Cox on March 18, 2009, 10:13:05 PM
I have moved G. lutea, but only young plants, about 6-8 years old. One had flowered once. It was still a very heavy digging job. It survived a trip in the car though.
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Kristl Walek on April 18, 2009, 10:58:59 PM
Although the nights are still mostly below freezing, daytime temperatures suddenly went from winter to summer (as is the trend in this part of the world).

And thus the potting has started for my move. And even though I am starting 3 months before I leave and had intended only to take the precious plants, this is a monumental task. After two days of it I was already so weary and discouraged, that I have decided to leave more and more species behind. Even at that, it will still be overwhelming.

I started with the alpines, bulbs and succulents, setting myself up with wheelbarrow and soil outside, near the areas where I was digging. The empty plunge bed will become my holding area for the sun-loving plants; where they are already getting lined up. There are sample pots to prepare of over 300+ semps alone. The Jovibarba, Orostachys, Rosularia, Delosperma and Rhodiola are finished.

Next came the barrel cacti---with the usual amount of winter catastrophes.

The recommended "three-way cut" has been made of many of the cherished Daphne --picture is of D. arbuscula.

In the greenhouse, pots and flats of saxifrage, lewisia, androsace, gentians and others sit for the time being.

The Clematis hirsutissima nearly broke my heart, as the plants were tightly wedged in between large limestone rocks and nearly impossible to dig out without extensive root damage. Luckily they mostly had good lateral root shoots, and are, thus far, still alive and continuing to send up top growth. (I never ultimately judge life or death for 10-14 days).





Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Kristl Walek on April 18, 2009, 11:06:21 PM
The Vitaliana primulifolia I had years ago learned should be taken before it comes into growth---and this was done while there was still snow outside---and the half dozen large divisions I took seem to have rooted well, and are now starting to bloom.

Arenarias were also potted, although here in the greenhouse they are now lax and open, unlike the ones still outdoors, growing on tufa. These will not require potting, as I intend to dismantle the tufa pieces and move them intact with their treasures growing on them (many of the Kabschia saxes are growing thus).

The rockery primula are all potted--marginata, allionii etc. and some of the auriculas are also in bud.

Some of the overwintered bulbs seedlings are ready to go and being protected from the chipmunks. A pot of Gagea minima is flowering in that bunch.

Stay tuned for next series...
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Paul T on April 18, 2009, 11:34:35 PM
Only just opened this topic for the first time..... can't get past that Glaucidium palmatum on the first page.  Definitely going to have to grow that at some point.  Wow!  :o
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Kristl Walek on May 02, 2009, 11:06:50 PM
My determination has been to have all the plants potted by the end of May. The only thing that will then leave is the 300+ semp species & cultivars and the Opuntia, which can be done anytime up to my departure.

With early extreme heat (+30C last week, -1C tonight) pushing everything out of the ground, I have had to work triple-time to keep up with the digging and to stay on schedule.

On days when there is help (usually my ex, who is the only one aside from myself who knows the garden well) I get much accomplished. We have a good system of Eddie digging and me potting.

The plants arrive at my potting station in boxes, trays, pots, wheelbarrows and arthritic fingers work as fast as possible putting treasures into appropriate containers so that they might survive until late summer in pots. The woodland species get piled up in a shady corner under the white pines.

Some clumps are so large that they go into huge tree pots (Paeonia tenuifolia, Veratrums, Cardiocrinums, Aconitums, Gentiana lutea---yes I have dug 4 out of 15 plants in the garden, and all seem alive at this point).

And yes, Glaucidium palmatum, lifted as they were just coming into active growth and shoots showing above the soil.  All intact clumps are alive; in fact, all separate divisions that detached during the digging are alive---and are in fact beginning to bloom in their pots. If they are still alive in one week, I will consider the digging a success.






Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Kristl Walek on May 02, 2009, 11:45:04 PM
The sun lovers get piled in the exposed plunge bed area, and I am getting to watch many of them blooming in their pots.

Many species have had to be dug before I have ever seen them bloom--such as the choice Iris zenaidae grown from seed from Janis Ruksans, now 3 years old.

And the Clematis collection is still being dug, as they show signs of life and the pots  piled up on one of the benches --- I was very happy to see my pet C. hirsutissima, making progress in the pots.
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Paul T on May 03, 2009, 01:59:14 AM
You've got a heck of a job, haven't you Kristl.  Hopefully everything you attempt is successful.  8)
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Lesley Cox on May 03, 2009, 09:36:01 PM
That's great news about the glaucidiums etc all being happy with the digging. Obviously you aren't moving to a little 1/4 acre plot. :)
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Kristl Walek on May 03, 2009, 10:25:19 PM
Leslie,
As I don't yet have a clue what my new property will be like, or how large; I am proceeding not with any common sense about the space I might have, but by whether I can stand to be without certain plants.

It's a good way to come to terms with the plants you love most.

Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Kristl Walek on May 03, 2009, 10:47:19 PM
Today I had the help of my friend Robert (who is also a forum member here-"Robert G"), who is young and strong....and thus the perfect helper for partially dismantling my rock garden to extricate the pieces of tufa that I want to take along.

Some pieces were quite large and surprisingly heavier than I remember---and there is the additional benefit of not having to pot up some of the species that are already happily growing on the tufa.

This done, and all the alpines I want to take already potted, the rock garden is now the first area finished for the move.





Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Lesley Cox on May 04, 2009, 01:32:13 AM
An incredible leap of faith then. I've moved house, garden and nursery several times but always knew where I was moving to, before I started to do it. Always potted well in advance but still knew what ground I'd have available.
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: nicheplanthead on May 09, 2009, 12:02:47 AM
Moving Daphe's

They are tap rotted so if you go to close the stem and sever the tap you are out of luck, so start far away and dig down a few feet and then feel inward to find the roots.
I bought a carol mackie and the nursery people potted it far up the stem so I guess they root when buried from the stem.

What Reginald Farrer did was tightly pack unearthered plants in a wooden box and shipped it back and he said he had little problems with survival. If weight is going to be costly then get the living part of dried spagham moss and soak it well then wash off the roots of the plants and wrap then in the moss sealing  then in plastic wrap.

Some large plants can be divided into smaller offsets which might be better.

   
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: nicheplanthead on May 09, 2009, 12:11:00 AM
I've seen some peony roots go down 3 feet on very old plants. I don't know how much of the root is needed for regeneration but look for new offsets.

go wide first looking for root edge as they can go off at an shallow angle.
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: nicheplanthead on May 09, 2009, 12:34:10 AM
g lutea look for smaller self sow seedlings maybe something of a few years

if trenching mark cuts with bamboo sticks so u won't severe rerooted roots.

dig one mature one up for a practise dig... getting the root ball intact is the trick to moving things

there is a rule of thumb for woody plants one inch trunk per one foot root ball or something like that.
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Kristl Walek on May 09, 2009, 01:31:13 AM
Hi Stuart....didn't realize you were a member of this wonderful forum.

I've managed it with the Gentiana lutea (dug 4 out of 12 mature plants in the garden---all alive and thriving after 2 weeks)....in fact, no catastophes with any plants
(so far).

I am a firm believer in digging early and deep; when the plant is just coming into life. And also digging on cool to cold days and in the rain is ideal.

I am sure I will not be as successful later on this month, as temperatures start to rise and plants are more advanced.

Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Kristl Walek on May 20, 2009, 10:52:32 PM
this is how the Glaucidiums look today---all have bloomed in their pots---and I actually believe they are proceeding to the seed stage as well.
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Maggi Young on May 20, 2009, 11:04:18 PM
They are looking good, Kristl..... great to see all your hard work is paying off.
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Paul T on May 21, 2009, 12:33:00 AM
Kristl,

Contragulations.  They certainly do look like a spectacular plant. 8)
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Rodger Whitlock on May 21, 2009, 02:24:25 AM
Do you have the white flowered glaucidium, Kristl?

In my opinion, it's far superior to the usual mauve/lavender/whatever. It's a good clean white, not at all washy (as they say).

However, my white flowered form dwindled and died where at least one mauve specimen has thriven. I suspect the whites are less robust.

Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Kristl Walek on June 07, 2009, 12:26:55 AM

I *do* grow the white form as well, Rodger.
And while it is certainly elegant, I would not trade it for the species.

They have both been equally vigorous in my garden --thriving on total neglect-- and it has also been dug for the move, without issue.
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Kristl Walek on June 07, 2009, 01:02:59 AM
It's been too sunny and hot to continue to dig plants in the past while, so it seemed like a good idea to begin dismantling the collapsed greenhouse, take down signage, birdhouses and plant supports, take apart the wrought iron benches, organize pots.

On cleaning out one of the birdhouses, I discovered it was full of squirrel babies (6)...
How this happened is beyond me---the holes in the birdhouse are not very large.

The garbage piles are bigger each week.

The greenhouse by the end of today was only end pieces, leaning precariously. These will get hauled to the fire area and soon I will have a huge bonfire, adding to it all my business records for the past 20 years!!!! Better than a shredder.

All the 4 Gentiana lutea I dug are still alive in their pots; today I noticed that one of them is sending up a flower spike!!!!

This has nothing to do with my move....but the garter snake that took up residence in the rock garden last year is still with me. I was quite thrilled when I saw him emerge from his hole under the limestone this spring. These days he prefers to lie in troughs on top of semps to sun himself.

Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Lesley Cox on June 07, 2009, 09:25:07 PM
How will the squirrel babies get OUT?
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Kristl Walek on June 07, 2009, 10:25:03 PM
How will the squirrel babies get OUT?

Lesley,
How do I answer your question  :-\

Most of the bird houses have bottoms that slide open to clean them out. I held the birdhouse over a wheelbarrow, opened the bottom and out tumbled a heavy mass of straw and living things. I jumped (gross understatement), dropped the birdhouse and only then looked at what was in my wheelbarrow. My first thought was rats or mice.

I really did not know what to do. 5 out of the 6 squirrels seemed at the almost-ready-to-launch stage. So I made a decision to let nature take it's course; drove them back up the hill in the wheelbarrow to the approximate area where the birdhouse was taken down; and let them go. 5 out of 6 scurried, the runt stayed in the straw (he was gone the next morning).
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Kristl Walek on July 05, 2009, 07:29:09 PM
Just a quick visual update on the dug plants in pots: Gentiana lutea (all still alive, with one in flower). And the Glaucidium *did* proceed straight from being dug, to bloom to seed pod production.

Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: Lesley Cox on July 05, 2009, 09:30:46 PM
That's excellent news Krystl. Shows one just needs to take heart in hand together with the spade, and go for it. :D
Title: Re: Moving Plants...
Post by: gote on July 07, 2009, 07:30:02 PM
I do not want to make anyone unhappy but when I have lost Glaucidiums and Gentiana lutea after moving they died in the following winter. They looked OK until then.
A plan B might come in handy
Göte
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