Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: Katherine J on February 13, 2009, 12:50:17 PM
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Accidentally there had been made a repeat of this topic, which I removed! This one was posted first!
Dear all Galanthophile friends,
There is an arboretum not far from Budapest, and there is a large field of a few species (and maybe cultivars) of Galanthus.
These have been planted long ago, at the end of 19th century, and since then nobody had disturbed them. We were last year in February to see, and these pix have been lying since then and waiting for identifying. In Hungary I don't know any galanthophiles to ask. Maybe you can help...
I put the pix in following posts.
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Yes, The message body was left empty. ;D
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I think, these are the same:
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And these:
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And these:
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And these:
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Those with the same number are the same.
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And the last batch:
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What a fantastic place Katherine. ;D Most of the first ones appear to be Galanthus plicatus from the leaves. The ones with the large upper and small lower green marks on the inner petals (7894) look like gracilis or elwesii. I like the yellow plicatus (pic 7897). 8)
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Hello Katherine , fantastic flower and plants. I have seen Galanthus elwesii (7894), elwesii or gracilis (7811), plicatus (7897,7789, 7827, 7889). Because it`s an old population you can find a lot of hybrides between the species. And you can find wonderful marked flowers. Thank you for sharing this pleasure.
Hagen
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It looks like there are definiately two species planted - elwesii and plicatus
Are the last ones 7897, 7902 and 7905 in a garden or a wood? If they are in the wild I would life them, twinscale them and start bulking them. It would be interesting to see the inner mark of the yellow plicatus.
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Hagen and Mark, what do you think 7902 and 7905 are?
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7902 - something I want ::)
7905 - a double with no aberrant outers in the middle. I'd like to see the inside
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Katherine, Antony, 7902 may be G. nivalis but with other blood in. A pure G nivalis with more than only a apical mark is very seldom. And the bloodgiver stand side by side.
Oh Katherine, now some of us will have sleepless nights ;)
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Thank you guys!
Mark, these all are in a garden (arboretum) :'(
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7905 - a double with no aberrant outers in the middle. I'd like to see the inside
We will try to go back this year. If some better weather would come. ::)
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Nothing to compare with those above, but I seem to have a misnamed pot of snowdrops. These are supposed to be plicatus 'Colossus', but are a nivalis, and the flowers are distinctive enough that I'm hoping someone will recognise the variety. Any offers?
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Katherine - Bravo! Take a bow.
Whew, that was a dizzying tour. I hope you get back to that garden.
7811 is particularly elegant.
johnw
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I forgot about this with 4 petals (tepals?):
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Kata, what have you done ??? ??? ::) ;D ;D ;D
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Luc - I think Katherine has left a few people in a convulsive state.
johnw
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John, do you mean convulsive laughter ??? ;D
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John, do you mean convulsive laughter ??? ;D
Hagen - More like uncontrolled shaking from head to toe. ;D
johnw
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I feel the need for a darkened room again. ;D
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Katherine, you owe it to the manager of the arboretum to offer to divide some of these crowded clumps. You should suggest that, as a great favour, you could remove excess bulbs because next year they may be too crowded to flower? ;) We would be more than willing to help you find suitable homes for these valuable treasures and would only charge a modest fee. ;D
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Anthony,
I asked him before, if they knew what species have been planted originally, and he was ABSOLUTELY UNHELPFUL. He told me, "this information is not public". >:( >:( >:(
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Anne your snowdrop looks a bit like Washfield Warham
http://www.snowdropinfo.com/plicatus-washfield-warham.html (http://www.snowdropinfo.com/plicatus-washfield-warham.html)
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Anthony,
I asked him before, if they knew what species have been planted originally, and he was ABSOLUTELY UNHELPFUL. He told me, "this information is not public". >:( >:( >:(
Just he drink malt whisky? ;D
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A post from Martin Baxendale seems to have been lost in the two thread mix up..... see what happens when I go out for a walk?
Anyway, Martin wrote: Kata, the leaves (though not very clear in the photos) do seem in one of the photos to be quite green, rather than grey-green, and also quite wide. Also the snowdrops seem to be quite evenly scattered rather than in large clumps. It's possible they are Galanthus plicatus which have seeded around.
Do you remember anything about the leaves? Were they narrow and grey-green or wide and quite green, perhaps with the margins folded back?
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Just he drink malt whisky? ;D
Maybe. And he maltreated me. ;D
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Katherine,
Great pictures!!! We have smaller plantings, not anywhere as interesting as your pictures, at the arboretum I work at. Now they are under half a metre of snow. For whatever this is worth, the manager's reponse makes me suspect that he has no idea of the plants origin. I find here the record keeping regarding "the little plants" have been neglected over the years. Maybe there too.
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Just he drink malt whisky? ;D
Maybe. And he maltreated me. ;D
Touché 8)
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We hope to actually see our snowdrops one day soon... when the other white stuff finally goes away
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Anthony,
I asked him before, if they knew what species have been planted originally, and he was ABSOLUTELY UNHELPFUL. He told me, "this information is not public". >:( >:( >:(
Kata
That attitude is such a shame. :(
Could I ask - the ones in the walled garden - could they be specimens that have been planted recently from purchases or swaps? It's just that the yellow one looks so much like something that may have been planted in the last couple of years from somewhere else.
If they are all seedlings that have appeared on their premises it would be a real shame for them to not be shared around the world.
It could be worth writing to the director of the arboretum explaining how you would like to study and document the Galanthus as part of 'your degree project'. Or perhaps send a personal message on this forum to Ian Christie for some ideas of how he has come to a happy accord with Brechin Castle in a very similar project.
Regards
John
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Kata,
You have found a treasure trove of wonderful snowdrops. Many thanks for sharing the sights with us.
Paddy
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;D ;D ;D
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I wish I had known about this arboretum when I was in Budapest in early March 2007. We went up into the hills on the little train but I don't remember seeing snowdrops.
What a fantastic display.
Koszonom, Kata.
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Thank you all for your kind comments!
Vivien,
This is not qiute so close, is about 40 km to Budapest.
Maggi, Martin and Rob,
I am sorry for removing the duplicate of this topic, I just did not want to confuse the other Forumists too. It was wery strange, because there appeared only my firts post, without the close pics of the flowers. Maybe I should have wait for Maggi to make order in the mess. :)
Anthony,
I think they already know what kind of treasure have there, and don't want anybody to go and collect anything... Maybe some day they close that part of the garden and will not let "anybody" to put the nose there. ;D
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Kata what a treat you have given to us. Many thanks, I love the snowdrops in your last two postings. Perhaps the director would be happy for you to take seeds if he is not willing to share the snowdrops 8)
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Maggi, Martin and Rob,
I am sorry for removing the duplicate of this topic, I just did not want to confuse the other Forumists too. It was wery strange, because there appeared only my firts post, without the close pics of the flowers. Maybe I should have wait for Maggi to make order in the mess. :)
of the garden and will not let "anybody" to put the nose there. ;D
No problemn, Kata. My comment about the leaves looking like Gal. plicatus is not relevant - I made it based on having only seen the first two long-distance photos you posted on the duplicate thread. I never received any email notification from the forum for the real thread with all your close-up photos. A very strange thing to happen. Some lovely snowdrops there.
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Some googling this afternoon...
Kata's arboretum has a website in Hungarian but does not say anything about the snowdrops.
The arboretum is on the site of a manor house built by Habsburg archdukes, at least one of which were great plant collectors and travellers and filled the gardens with rarities. The house was burnt down by the Russians in 1944.
In communist times it was run as a botanical garden and is now run as part of the National Park system.
There are 6 species of snowdrop in the park.
hovirag = ho(snow) + virag(flower)
Headline from Budapest english language newspaper:
'You know when spring is coming when the first snowdrop smuggler is caught.'
Smuggling seems to be primarily to Germany.
The arboretum seems to be having a photo competition to which Kata should enter some pictures (it may have finished?).
The chapel is available for weddings!!!
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Thanks for that Vivien, I collected this postcard and should have known what Hovirag meant!
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The most detailed English-language account I could find of the news item Vivien referred to was here:
http://www.humanflowerproject.com/index.php/weblog/comments/hovirag_hungarys_hot_snowdrop/
The stealing of snowdrops can be a big problem and it happens in the UK also; both in large quantities from woodlands for resale and occasionally specialist snowdrops have been stolen during open-garden events. I would be gutted [tremendously upset] if this ever happened to me so I think some of the comments made in jest earlier on this thread were a bit off. Granted, the manager of the arboretum may be unhelpful and offhand but the snowdrops are still his. So either Kata has to win him round or bide her time until somebody else takes over if she want to see specimens of the more interesting snowdrops brought into cultivation. Or it might be possible to gather and cultivate seeds from the interesting plants in the hopes that the offspring share the characteristics of their parent.
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I have removed a post of mine, because it`s not a point of fun, what we must read in Alan`s post. To steal plants in nature and destroy habitats is a shame. It`s appalling.
Not my kind of galanthophile.
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Vivien,
Bravo for your excellent detective work! :)
Yes, it was built by Habsburg archdukes, and terribly ruined (and the house literally stolen) in the 2. world war. There remained only the tympan.
The photo competition's title is "4 seasons in the Alcsut arboretum" and will finish in August, I think.
The snowdrop field is in the back, quite out of the way, and many visitors do not know about it. It is sad, but really may be abuses, if everybody knew about it...
Snowdrop collecting is indeed prohibited in Hungary, and I agree with that, because a few years ago every spring the cities were full of snowdrop sellers (and they collected it not from their garden ;D).
Now I know many places in Buda hills where there is abundance of Galanthus nivalis, but these are almost inaccessible steep slopes and bushy places.
And maybe the head gardener's attitude can be understood, because he did not know me, but then why did he put some selected forms near the entrance (see the pics with the stone fence in the back), without any label? Indeed, most people in Hungary are absolutely not interested in names of the plants. They buy plants for their garden (or collect in the wild!) without knowing absolutely nothing about them. :-[
OK, i finish now. ;D
Here are two pics, one of the former house in the Alcsut arboretum, and one with snowdrops from Buda hills (the hills surrounding Budapest on the right side of the Danube)
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Thank you for the new pictures, Kata. It looks a beautiful place.
It is a pity that our rich/royal Victorian garden owners did not want to mass-plant 6 species of snowdrop, or we might have such a treasure here too. They were probably too busy trying to outdo each other with their bedding plant displays.
Good luck with the photograph competition!