Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Crocus => Topic started by: Janis Ruksans on February 03, 2009, 08:55:06 AM
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Ladies and Gentlemen,
I awake suddenly and checked calendar. It seems that February started or I'm wrong? So time for new topic. I waited that someone else will open it as here is deep winter and no Crocus bloom came out. All is covered by snow or in greenhouses by glass-wool sheets. As no one wanted to start, I'm taking this job showing you again some pictures from wild with much discused Crocus biflorus isauricus. Now pictures are from very special population where Crocus chrysanthus grow side by side with biflorus isauricus. Although they are something separated by blooming time but many plants overlap so they hybridise there. I visited this locality NW from Akseki twice - at first visit dominated isauricus, at second chrysanthus. This is open very wet steep slope where plenty of different bulbs blooms at same time. I add here few pictures. Others on other post.
Janis
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The last pictures from the same locality as on previous entry, only the last one are from place quite far from Akseki, but still locality of isauricus.
Janis
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Janis lovely plants from the wild
The last one was extra nice with the colouring on the tips.
All the best
Joakim
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Janis
The last isauricus is a stunner.
Should we regard it as a new subspecie as it has black anthers, whereas the typical isauricus does not.
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Janis
The last isauricus is a stunner.
Should we regard it as a new subspecie as it has black anthers, whereas the typical isauricus does not.
No, only connective is black, possibly a little more prominent than in some others, but it is only isauricus.
Janis
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a few in flower today
Crocus chrysanthus
Crocus sieberi ssp sieberi
Crocus reticulatus
Crocus graveolens
Crocus biflorus ssp alexandri
Crocus biflorus issauricus
two Crocus biflorus ssp pulchricolor
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Three natural hybrids of Crocus biflorus pulchricolor with Crocus chrysanthus
Some of the crocuses in flower in the sun today
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Stunning pictures everyone !!! :o
I discover new things every day here ! :D
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Tony, that cr91 is stunning. Lovely pastel shades. 8)
I tried the kitchen trick with Crocus vitellinus, but it hasn't opened yet. Need a sunny day. :(
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I think it's interesting to get a good look in Anthony's pictures of how the crocus leaves emerge ....they don't look very crocus-like at first glance do they, because one is so used to seeing the upper surface, with the white stripes.
I reckon cr91 is a very similar hybrid to the one shown by Tony Goode in previous years from the biflorus colonies on the roadside near his home .......this would give me hope that DIY attempts to achieve this rather pretty colour might be successful!! 8)
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I am very pleased with my crocus cr91 which of my hybrids is one of the best, it is from wild seed sown in 1997 and has flowered for several years and is slowly increasing
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I am very pleased with my crocus cr91 which of my hybrids is one of the best, it is from wild seed sown in 1997 and has flowered for several years and is slowly increasing
And so you should be! It looks like an advance .... on Advance :)
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And so you should be! It looks like an advance .... on Advance :)
;D ;D ;D
Now don't get ahead of yourself Tony
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I am very pleased with my crocus cr91 which of my hybrids is one of the best, it is from wild seed sown in 1997 and has flowered for several years and is slowly increasing
And so you should be! It looks like an advance .... on Advance :)
Pity Tony W isn't an Australian... then his plant could be "Advance, Australia Fair" ;D
Sorry, couldn't help myself :-X
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Maggi, Australians, fair and otherwise, advance sufficiently already. Sometimes they need keeping in their place. ;D (Actually, I love every one I know. Just as well I don't know the cricketers and rugby players!)
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(Actually, I love every one I know. Just as well I don't know the cricketers and rugby players!)
Probably isn't a decent crocus grower amongst them!
cheers
fermi
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A fantastic Crocus biflorus form. I don't know what to call it. All I know is it comes from the same area as Crocus wattiorum. Tony W or Janis may have suggestions?
A selection of Crocus chrysanthus forms. Subtle variation in size, shape and shade.
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Tony
I am sure I will be shot down but that area is within,although on the edge of,the distribution of C. biflorus issauricus. As you know I disagree completely with the splitters but I am sure it will have been given a new name. Whatever it is called it is a beauty.
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Tony that is a beautiful flower.
Here is a pic of Crocus korolkowii 'Kiss of Spring' in the snow in my garden.
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Tony
I am sure I will be shot down but that area is within,although on the edge of,the distribution of C. biflorus issauricus. As you know I disagree completely with the splitters but I am sure it will have been given a new name. Whatever it is called it is a beauty.
They'll have to shoot us both then!
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Tony G,
I also agree with Tony W. That area is edge of,the distribution of C. biflorus isauricus. It looks like last picture of Janis to me. West of this distribution area C. biflorus subsp. atrospermus' distribution is starting!
And nort of that area (region Denizli) C. biflorus subsp. leucostylosus is spread.
And I don't know anything about these new subsp. specieses of biflorus!!!
If anybody has any informations?
I would say thanks in advence....
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Tony G,
I also agree with Tony W. That area is edge of,the distribution of C. biflorus isauricus. It looks like last picture of Janis to me. West of this distribution area C. biflorus subsp. atrospermus' distribution is starting!
And nort of that area (region Denizli) C. biflorus subsp. leucostylosus is spread.
And I don't know anything about these new subsp. specieses of biflorus!!!
If anybody has any informations?
I would say thanks in advence....
Ruda-008 were collected ~ 70-80 km before Ermenek on rd.70-52 (?) before Gormeli. It is C-4 by Turkish Flora, E part of isauricus area.
Janis
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Tony G,
And nort of that area (region Denizli) C. biflorus subsp. leucostylosus is spread.
And I don't know anything about these new subsp. specieses of biflorus!!!
If anybody has any informations?
I would say thanks in advence....
I had never heard of this new sub species so I googled it and it is another K&P one. I wonder how many specimens and over what area they collected to determine it.
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Every day is a learning day in this forum ;)
Very impressive to see all these crocus species :P 8)
Thank you.
I'm still thoughtful over my question in the January thread of taxonomic origin of "C. isauvicus "Spring Beauty"" (a form of C. minimus???).
Unfortunately nobody was able yet to give an answer on this illusive name.
It is obvious a new cultivar from Dutch origin but not registered in KAVB.
Under this link there is a picture of it (not a good one compared the one on the label of the package I purchased in a German garden center last autuum)
http://www.brentandbeckysbulbs.com/spring/productview/?sku=13-0167 (http://www.brentandbeckysbulbs.com/spring/productview/?sku=13-0167)
I also remember that Dix Export had it as a new introduction on the list but I can't access/find it anymore.
Maybe someone can help me on the identification.
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Dec 2007, I bought 100 Spring Beauty for around $12.
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A crocus is so pretty when you see it wide open like that. Are they all doing okay, Guff?
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Hi Maggie. I had them in pots Dec 2007 until they flowered and died down. They were planted in my dog's grave this past summer.
Side note, I'm going to redo my dog's grave this summer. I have around 230ish cyclamen coum seedlings to plant. Going to make the bed 10x10 or 12x12. I figured 6-8in apart for the coum?, then replant the crocus in and around.
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Crocus biflorus tauri opened for me today.
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Side note, I'm going to redo my dog's grave this summer. I have around 230ish cyclamen coum seedlings to plant. Going to make the bed 10x10 or 12x12. I figured 6-8in apart for the coum?, then replant the crocus in and around.
Sounds good .
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Guff your 'Spring Beauty' looks like C. minimus.
Tony, that is a stunning photo of your C. biflorus.
One of my lectures at Harveys included many Crocus
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I'm still thoughtful over my question in the January thread of taxonomic origin of "C. isauvicus "Spring Beauty"" (a form of C. minimus???).
Unfortunately nobody was able yet to give an answer on this illusive name.
It is obvious a new cultivar from Dutch origin but not registered in KAVB.
Under this link there is a picture of it (not a good one compared the one on the label of the package I purchased in a German garden center last autuum)
http://www.brentandbeckysbulbs.com/spring/productview/?sku=13-0167 (http://www.brentandbeckysbulbs.com/spring/productview/?sku=13-0167)
I also remember that Dix Export had it as a new introduction on the list but I can't access/find it anymore.
Maybe someone can help me on the identification.
Armin - the name "C. isauvicus" does not appear anywhere in Mathew nor in either The RHS Database or the Kew Monocot Checklist. I think someone must have copied a name incorrectly. I agree it looks like C. minimus; an old synonym for this is C. insularis.
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I was just posting what I had bought as isauvicus 'Spring Beauty', I agree it's a (form) or is C. minimus.
Question is it the same as C. minimus or a different form. Brent and Becky's has both listed. Are they different forms? And where does the name isauvicus 'Spring Beauty' come about?
http://www.brentandbeckysbulbs.com/spring/genus.php?genusid=14
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[/quote]
Armin - the name "C. isauvicus" does not appear anywhere in Mathew nor in either The RHS Database or the Kew Monocot Checklist. I think someone must have copied a name incorrectly. I agree it looks like C. minimus; an old synonym for this is C. insularis.
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Isn't it possible it is simply an 'r' was replaced by a 'v' - thus it should read isauricus ???
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Crocus biflorus tauri opened for me today.
Looks very good David ! :o
I'm expecting the same show - but as they're outside in the garden, I have some more weeks to go I think... ::)
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Dec 2007, I bought 100 Spring Beauty for around $12.
Plant on picture 2 is 100% virus!
Janis
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Anthony, that is a stunning photo of your C. biflorus.
No problem Mark. ???
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Question is it the same as C. minimus or a different form. Brent and Becky's has both listed. Are they different forms? And where does the name isauvicus 'Spring Beauty' come about?
http://www.brentandbeckysbulbs.com/spring/genus.php?genusid=14
Interesting link, Guff - especially the photo of C. tommasinianus Claret, which I posted on this forum
some years ago. Nobody has ever asked me for permission, let's wait for their reply to my e-mail!
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Isn't it possible it is simply an 'r' was replaced by a 'v' - thus it should read isauricus ???
Art - I agree & I suggested this in my post 365 (1st Feb). Although this looks rather like C. minimus I suppose it could be a form of the variable C. biflorus isauricus.
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Is that photo of 'Claret'?
This is what someone I know grows as 'Claret'
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Although this looks rather like C. minimus I suppose it could be a form of the variable C. biflorus isauricus.
Gerry, I have planted some 'Spring Beauty' bought from Dix last autumn but the corms surely don't look like biflorus.
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Is that photo of 'Claret'?
This is what someone I know grows as 'Claret'
Mark, my photo doesn't show the true colour which is like the plants on your photo.
But my plants have pointed tipps, while yours are more rounded :-\
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I tried to beg some corms but the answer was no.
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Guff, it is sometimes the case that a mistake, once made, is perpetuated by others and often for a long time...... I think this is the case with the "isauvicus" I noticed from an image search for that name that all the images that came up were the same, and also quoted the same text as Brent and Becky's Bulbs, evenwhe purpoting to be another supplier, so it seems that the image and text are just being copied together, leading to a further confusion.
Take the case of Erythronium 'White Beauty', this is a form of E. californicum but for years it has been called E. revolutum 'White Beauty' after one nurseryman wrote that, during a "senior moment", in his catalogue and the mistake stuck with the plant for many years!
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Thomas, yes, I recognise your plants..... and your house wall!!
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I tried to beg some corms but the answer was no.
Let's wait until summer and I will have a look if I can spare some small bulbils for you - if you want!?
I found this photo which shows the colour better than the stolen one:
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Mark,
the colour of crocus tommassianu 'Calret' looks quite annatural and artificial for crocus. It seems to be photoshoped. Thomas' photo looks much more natural.
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I have plants with colour very similar to Marks shot. The colour does lighten a bit as the flowers age.
Pic is from previous year and they are as the camera saw them.
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A glorious day with unbroken sunshine. The greenhouse at the bottom of the garden was 68f whilst those in the shade at the side of the house were 36f.
It brought the crocuses out very well.
Crocus ancyrencis
Crocus nevadensis
Crocus angustifolius
Crocus sieberi two pictures
Crocus chrysanthus
Crocus danfordiae (possibly not the flowers are too large)
Crocus veluchensis
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Chorley in the banana belt? ??? Lovely show Tony.
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Thanks Thomas.
David today was wall to wall sun with a moment here and there with snow
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Tony I like the look of your Crocus in clay pots.
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I wouldn't doubt them being virused, some that flowered on my dog's grave didn't look so well. I thought it was the bulbs being out of the ground to long. Both Spring Beauty pictures are of the same flower.
Just curious why would BIG bulb sellers continue to sell large lots of virused bulbs? I would think they would know they are virused? or do they just don't care?
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today was wall to wall sun with a moment here and there with snow
Today was wall to wall rain and gloom with a bit of sleet thrown in. No proper snow all week - we feel cheated :'(
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Tony snow is going to hit your area tomorrow
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Here are some Crocus from my collection
crocus cvijicii
?Crocus malyi
?Crocus sieberi
Crocus sieberi ex Gothenburg - muliplying fast
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Tony snow is going to hit your area tomorrow
Oh no its not - I'd bet a fiver it does not lay. We've been forecast bucketloads twice this week and seen precious little that melted fast.
Your two ? crocus are both OK I reckon.
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Hello Croconuts,
many thanks for the multiple feedback/comments on "C.isauv(r)icus "Spring Beauty" name mystery.
Typo or not - it remains botanically illusive to me. :-\
I have to wait for further investigations when it is in blossom.
Preconditioned they survived the strong frost and are not virused ???
Thomas, your crocus pictures go round the world! ;) :D
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ISAURICUS SPRING BEAUTY corms.
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Guff,
thanks for showing the corms of "Spring Beauty".
Regrettable I did not take a photo of mine for comparison.
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ISAURICUS SPRING BEAUTY corms.
Looks like C. minimus.
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Ladies and Gentlements,
Already several weeks I follow your conversations and pictures on the forum.
My name is Hendrik van Bogaert and I live in Belgium.
Already more then 30 years I collect plants; my specialities are woodlanders, pleiones, asarums and of course many bulbs.
I hope that I can contribute with my knownledge and pictures.
Here with a first picture of a wild form of Crocus chrysanthus. Enjoy!
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Welcome Hendrik!
I look forward to hearing more from you - that is a very fine form of Crocus chrysanthus.
Thank-you for joining us.
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Welcome Hendrik!
I look forward to hearing more from you - that is a very fine form of Crocus chrysanthus.
Thank-you for joining us.
Hi Tonyg,
Thank you for your warm welcome!
Here with a new picture of Crocus cyprius.
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A healthy potfull of C cyprius. It looks like there is more than one clone, do you get seeds from them?
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A healthy potfull of C cyprius. It looks like there is more than one clone, do you get seeds from them?
Unfortunately not, they flower in my greenhouse always very early and at the moment there are no bees..
I can try to fertilize them by hand.
Next treasure: Crocus biflorus ssp. mubigena
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Welkom Hendrik !
Nice to see another compatriot on the forum ! Very nice start too ! Wonderful pix ! I love the C.biflorus nubigena :o
I hope you will stick with us and show us lots more ! :D
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Welcome Hendrik and thank you for sharing your Crocus pictures with us I look forward to many more.
It is especially nice to see flowers as we still have around 15cms or snow and my job for today is to clear it off the glass house roof in case they collapse under the increasing weight.
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I will try to send you more pictures but actually the wether is too dark.
Many more will follow.
I do my best.
Thank you all for the warm welcome.
Next picture: Crocus heuffelianus 'Carpathian Wonder' one of Janis treasures...and carefully multiplied.
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:o :o :o :o
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Wonderful! Perhaps Janis is watching ;)
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Wonderful! Perhaps Janis is watching ;)
For all who suffer under snow, cold and cloudy weather a next picture:Crocus adanensis
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Welcome Hendrik lovely plants,I really like the C. chrysanthus.
I have been pollinating my cyprius by hand in the hope of seeds.
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Welcome Hendrik lovely plants,I really like the C. chrysanthus.
I have been pollinating my cyprius by hand in the hope of seeds.
Thank you for your advice. I will try it.
And now a few more:
- close-up of Crocus alatavicus
- Crocus biflorus ssp. weldenii (I got it under this name, but probably not correct. Could it be ssp alexandri? This crocus has a yellow throat...nevertheless a very nice crocus)
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Welcome Hendrik, great to have you here - nice photos!
Crocus biflorus ssp alexandrii doesn't have a yellow throat, like weldenii.
So it must be another ssp of biflorus or perhaps a hybrid.
Re my photo of C. tommasinianus Claret:
Photo has been removed and Becky has apoligized for her mistake.
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Welcome Hendrik, great to have you here - nice photos!
Crocus biflorus ssp alexandrii doesn't have a yellow throat, like weldenii.
So it must be another ssp of biflorus or perhaps a hybrid.
Re my photo of C. tommasinianus Claret:
Photo has been removed and Becky has apoligized for her mistake.
Correct what you write. It is probably a hybrid.
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In flower today
Crocus gargaricus ssp gargaricus from Goktepe Turkey ,not one of my own but a gift
Crocus veluchensis
Crocus danfordiae two forms. These are very varied and are minute being only 3 cms high. C299 is a nice form but needs to be seen at eye level.
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Welcome Hendrik,
my first flowers this spring:
Crocus biflorus ssp.fibroannulatus and
`` hartmannianus
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I seem to be waiting for a lot of crocus to open, so just one, and not a very exciting one
Crocus corsicus (TonyG on your website, you say red style branches which mine has not - are these not yet developed, or is it not this species?)
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Not very exciting, I seem to be waiting for a lot of crocus to open
Crocus corsicus (TonyG on your website, you say red style branches which mine has not - are these not yet developed, or is it not this species?)
Hi Diane. Take a look at Crocus imperati, in particular the clone 'de Jager'. Its early for Crocus corsicus but about right for Crocus imperati which I am sure is what you have there.
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Welcome Hendrik,
my first flowers this spring:
Crocus biflorus ssp.fibroannulatus and
`` hartmannianus
Thank you Dirk for your welcome.
C. biflorus ssp.fibroannulatus and C. hartmannianus are really very rare. I have never seem them. I know C. fibroannulatus only from some pictures in the bulletin Linzer biol. Beitr - 29/1 pages 591-600 - 31.7.1997. Sp. artvinensis is the second crocus in this article. I have a few bulbs of this, but flowers are already over. Are the outer petals of hartmannianus not heavily stained violet and the filaments dark purplish-maroon? C. hartmannianus is very closely allied to C. cyprius.
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Welcome Hendrik great pictures and wonderful plants. Thank you for sharing. Most of mine are still sleeping outside and in the frame brrrhh
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Hendrik,
welcome in the forum.
You seem to have a very fine collection of crocus. 8)
Your C.chrysanthus from Alanya is much better looking then "Zwanenburg Bronze" 8)
Does it set and come true from seed?
I'm exited to see more ;)
My crocus in the garden are matching the note from Ian.
On top continous rain and light snowfall yesterday - brrrh.
Tony - great stuff you show us 8)
Like your "yellow eggs" C. gargaricus ssp. gargaricus and the tiny C. danfordiae.
Dirk,
as usual - extraordinary :o 8)
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Hi Diane. Take a look at Crocus imperati, in particular the clone 'de Jager'. Its early for Crocus corsicus but about right for Crocus imperati which I am sure is what you have there.
Thanks Tony. I had a vague memory of sorting this one before. Now I must change the label. I did a Google search to find the difference between the C imperati subspecies, and guess what, it led me back here to chapter and verse on the subject, thanks to Tony and Maggi ::)
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1121.msg27819
Only a couple of weeks ago, I can't have been paying attention ::)
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Many thanks Anne, the seed you sent to me of C. baytopiorum is coming up now. A dozen so far. Many other crocus seeds too, from Thomas and the Crocus Group. Perhaps they've liked the humidity caused by hot weather and watering. Today is cooler with some rain, thank goodness.
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A tiny bit of sun today, inbetween snow and sleet showers
I'm pretty sure these are correctly named, although always open to discussion ;)
Crocus sieheanus
Crocus biflorus pseudonubigena
Crocus reticulata reticulata - a promise of things to come
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At last enough sun yesterday and today to open Crocus baytopiorum and Crocus chrysanthus 'Sunspot'. I was a bit worried they would go over without opening properly. Crocus korolkowii is one I've had a long time but 'Sunspot' is new and this is the first time baytopiorum has flowered since 2006 so I was anxious to see them.
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Roma, your C. korolkowii doesn't look like the standard trade form.
Is it one of Janis' selections? Which one?
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Crocus chrysanthus 'Prins Claus'
Crocus chrysanthus 'Prins Claus'
Crocus corsicus
Crocus fleischeri 'Gulek Pass'
Crocus sieberi 'Ronald Ginns'
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And very nice too. :D
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Thomas, my Crocus korolkowii came from the Cruickshank Botanic Garden in Aberdeen and was growing there when I started working in the garden in1977. The Rock garden was completed around 1970 so the crocuses would have ben planted about this time. There are no records of their origin but probably came from Van Tubergen or Avon. Here is the outside of my Crocus korolkowii.
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It looks like the one I have as C korolkowii dark throat, shown earlier.
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Like mine too though I don't think mine is quite so heavily marked on the outside. Might be just the day or the light.
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Thomas, my Crocus korolkowii came from the Cruickshank Botanic Garden in Aberdeen and was growing there when I started working in the garden in1977. The Rock garden was completed around 1970 so the crocuses would have ben planted about this time. There are no records of their origin but probably came from Van Tubergen or Avon. Here is the outside of my Crocus korolkowii.
Thanks for the info, Roma! Very beautiful!
Your's has a very distinct dark throat, while the
standard trade form has only a soft-dark throat:
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some new Crocus in flower today:
Crocus biflorus ssp.pseudonubigena
`` nevadensis, a pale form
`` korolkowii 'Golden Nugget'
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In the sunshine last weekend:
Crocus angustifolius
Cc. flavus (??? bought as; Dutch stock) & tommasinianus ‘Roseus’
C. paschei x2 One of my favourites, with a delicate perfume
C. sieberi ssp. sublimis f. ‘Tricolor’
C. tommasinianus ‘Whitewell Purple’ x2
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Ashley
Superb Crocus. Have never seen paschei before- definitely on my wish list :)
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Yes it's one I'd recommend Art. Here it does better than adanensis which flowers too early and in the gloom tends to go over without opening.
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Ashley lovely crocus,very nice to see.
Here are two views of Crocus biflorus ssp alexandri to show the inside and outside of the flowers.
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Ashley - very nice crocus. What's the problem with C. flavus?
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Well it's so different from pictures on Tony G's 'Crocus Pages', possibly a hybrid because it's either infertile or self-incompatible.
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Today went to my garden and greenhouses. It was so bright sun shining and in greenhouses temperature raised up to + 10 C. Last night we had outside minus 7 C and even in day temperature didn't rise above zero (in shade, outside). Regardless of high temperature covering with glass-wool sheets generally protects bulbs from warm and soil in pots still is frosen. Those Crocuses wintering with leaves looks nice, only Central Asians regardless of cover and frost showed flowerbuds out. Hope to keep them covered still at least two weeks.
Main job was giving nice pink food to my garden "friends" - all my restaurants for rodents were empty and I renewed my presents to them.
Such are my news.
Janis
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Well it's so different from pictures on Tony G's 'Crocus Pages', possibly a hybrid because it's either infertile or self-incompatible.
Dutch's usually under name of flavus sells hybrid with angustifolius which is known under various names as Grote Gele, Yellow Mammout etc. - those are sterile.
Janis
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Well it's so different from pictures on Tony G's 'Crocus Pages', possibly a hybrid because it's either infertile or self-incompatible.
Dutch's usually under name of flavus sells hybrid with angustifolius which is known under various names as Grote Gele, Yellow Mammout etc. - those are sterile.
Janis
I have C.flavus which I am fairly sure is a Dutch import. This is fertile & produces large quantities of seed. It is more orange in colour than Ashley's plant.
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Thanks for your comments Gerry and Jānis. The colour shown is fairly true, i.e. more yellow than orange, but I find it hard to see any angustifolius blood either :-\
Clearly several different plants are circulating under the Dutch C. flavus label.
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Ashley - Try Pottertons if you want fertile plants which I think are genuine C. flavus.
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Thanks Gerry ;)
Your biflorus ssp alexandrii is a beauty Tony; not as dark as the form I have. Is it from wild-collected seed?
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Some Crocus from today
Is this Crocus chrysanthus '?' bought as C. sieberi at Wisley?
imperati
sieberi 'Michael Hoog's Memory'
sieberi 'Ronald Ginns' - shown last year for the first. The form is prolific
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Is your sky that blue, Mark or is it a backdrop?
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Hello - I'm new to the Forum
Mark - Great photos where did you get the blue sky from?
Here in Aberdeen we had snow again today and my first crocus of the year has poked through - Sieberi albus.
regards
Graeme Strachan
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Welcome to the Forum, Graeme!!
What a good Crocus photo to start with .... the white and golden against the snow is lovely 8)
I hope all this snow is gone before the Bus Trip to Dunblane though, eh??! ???
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Thank you Maggi,
I hope I'll be up in time for the 7.30am start on Saturday after going to a Royal Horticultural Society of Aberdeen fundraiser on Friday!!!
Graeme
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Diane, yes it's a background and yes it's the sky - looking north.
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Diane, yes it's a background and yes it's the sky - looking north.
What's all the blue stuff then, our sky is white. 8)
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Thank you Maggi,
I hope I'll be up in time for the 7.30am start on Saturday after going to a Royal Horticultural Society of Aberdeen fundraiser on Friday!!!
Graeme
Ah, yes, the Pub Quiz..... Ian refuses to go, needing his beauty sleep.... and I just KNOW it'll be a fun evening! :-X
Details for anyone in the Aberdeen Area: " On Friday 20th February there will be a ‘pub quiz’ on the theme of gardening and general knowledge at the Cloverleaf Hotel, Bucksburn.
We hope that local gardening clubs and similar organisations will send teams to compete for a modest trophy (to be held for one year), and can guarantee a sociable and entertaining evening. Tickets are £5, including a finger buffet, and doors open at 7 pm, with the quiz starting at 7.30 pm. The quiz-master will be the well-known Bruce Gilliland.
Teams may have up to four members, amusing team-names are not obligatory, but could add to the fun. Clubs are not restricted to one team - send as many as you wish."
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Maggi,
Thanks for the "plug".
How many decades is Ian going to sleep for? (tongue in cheek)
Graeme
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Maggi,
Thanks for the "plug".
How many decades is Ian going to sleep for? (tongue in cheek)
Graeme
Well, as you know, Ian is very beautiful and so needs rather more sleep on that account...... :-\
He'll be tucking up cosy about next Tuesday, I should think ;D
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For the most part it was a sunny day today so took the chance to picture some Crocus.
The first two are of Crocus gargaricus ssp. gargaricus. These were quite small corms kindly sent to me by Tony Willis from his original collection in Goktepe, Turkey. Hope I recorded that spelling correctly Tony and thank you. I didn't really expect them to flower this year.
Next two are Crocus dalmaticus 'Petrovac Strain' from Dirk. Thank you Dirk.
Crocus minimus, these from Anne Wright, thank you Anne. Beautiful shading.
Crocus chrysanthus 'Blue Bird', these from Thomas. Thanks very much Thomas.
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..... and to complete the set:-
Crocus chrysanthus 'Ard Schenk' followed by Crocus angustifolius 'Bronze Form'. Although this is fairly common I love the external shading.
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Thanks Gerry ;)
Your biflorus ssp alexandrii is a beauty Tony; not as dark as the form I have. Is it from wild-collected seed?
Ashley
yes it is wild collected seed from Mt Falackro in Northern Greece where I understand it grows in thousands.Of course I did not see it in flower and in fact most of the seed I collected turned out to be Crocus chrysanthus which must grow with it.
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David I must have been feeling generous,the spelling is Goktepe,my awful writing must have been unreadable
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A few Crocus from Thursday when we had sunshine :)
Crocus cvjicii
Crocus cvjicii
Crocus vernus 'Fantasia' from Dirk
General view of Crocus
Identification required please
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The sunshine also opened the Crocus minimus - previously unknown label.
Can anyone suggest why Crocus minimus seems to be flowering much earlier this year.
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I have photographed mine on the following dates
12th Feb '09
6th and 13th Feb '08
2nd March '06
18th Feb '05
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Beautiful C. cvjicii Art - paticularly attractive for me is the somewhat darker orange petaltips ! Is that a normal feature for this species ??
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Some Crocus from today
Is this Crocus chrysanthus '?' bought as C. sieberi at Wisley?
Mark, this looks like chrysanthus 'Cream Beauty'
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The sunshine also opened the Crocus minimus - previously unknown label.
Can anyone suggest why Crocus minimus seems to be flowering much earlier this year.
It must be warmer in your garden :o or maybe you watered early and they got a good start. Mine are weeks off flowering.
:-\ Not sure about one or two of the flowers - or maybe I'm getting paranoid about streaky plants :-\
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Here is my first Crocus abantensis :
(http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/84/35/03/eos5dm24.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=415&u=11843503)
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Thomas, today I have Cream Beauty in bud in another pot. Wrongly supplied bulbs gets me so angry
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Lovely stuff Arthur, is that a trick of the light on the petal edges of your Crocus cvijicii?
A very nice C. abantensis Fred, and a cracking picture of it too.
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I think it must be .David
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Fred
Your Crocus abantensis is outstanding - from seed? This is not widely grown, and I am trying to collect from several sources.
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cvijicii has to be one of the most difficult Crocus to photograph
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Another mild day today with sunny spells and another couple of Crocuses open enough to take pictures. Crocus sieberi and Crocus malyi.
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cvijicii has to be one of the most difficult Crocus to photograph
Seems to be Mark, but what a colour !!!
Unfortunately I still don't have it :(
David, this clone comes from Janis !
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Last year's cvijicii is doing very well. A lovely colour combination
chrsyanthus 'Cream Beauty'
Crocus chrysanthus fuscotinctus
angustifolius minor - not angustifolius. I was relying on memory because I forgot to take a shot of the label
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Fantastic collection mark !
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Cream Beauty is one of my favourites. The welcome sun today opened the crocuses beautifully. Here are 'George' and C tommasinianus 'Bobbo'.
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Lovely Mark. My C. chrysanthus Fuscotinctus seems to be more orange whilst yours is a nice Lemon colour, here's mine but you'll have to excuse the quality of the picture.
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Anne
I have never seen 'George' or 'Bobbo' before. 'Bobbo' is particularly nice.
Can I ask where you obtained them please - definitely for my wish list.
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'Bobbo' is really nice and one of my favourite tommasinianus. My tops is my pure white one.
Can I dangle a 'Bobbo' carrot in front of you?
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:-\ Not sure about one or two of the flowers - or maybe I'm getting paranoid about streaky plants :-\
I thought the streaking was just the feathering seen from inside but now I'm not so sure. Probably paranoia, as I'm seeing a little on the abantensis too. :-\
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Thanks Fred. Two of them were garden centre bulbs.
David mine could be wrong because it came from a local garden centre
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George came from Janis Ruksans, and Bobbo from Kath Dryden.
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Thanks Anne
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Hi friends,
Today was a very sunny day in Belgium.
When I came in my greenhouse this afternoon, a lot of crocuses were in full bloom.
Enjoy!
Crocus abantensis
Crocus cvijicii
Crocus angustifolius flavus
Crocus cambessedesii
Crocus cyprius 2
Crocus pachei
Crocus veluchensis
Crocus biflorus ssp. pulchricolor
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It's great what a little sunshine can do isn't it? 8)
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Hendrik very nice plants. Where are your veluchensis from?
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There is something I see all the time in photos that I dont do and must start. Everyone has grit to the top of the pot. I always leave maybe 1cm or less for easier watering.
Lovely Crocus Hendrick
At Bowles garden today I spotted 3 pure white tommies with cream outer petals. So sad to see so many trampled by Galanthophiles
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Now that I have edited the photos I see they are not white. I was going to ask if I could buy them but there were too many people :o ::)
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Hendrik very nice plants. Where are your veluchensis from?
Tony, I have checked the label this morning; it's the woodland form of veluchensis and comes from Cambridge bulbs in 1988 (!); I have other veluchensis form (from Janis) but they flower later. I have yesterday morning photographed the same plant without sun; as you can see, a lot of difference in colour.
Hendrik
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There is something I see all the time in photos that I dont do and must start. Everyone has grit to the top of the pot. I always leave maybe 1cm or less for easier watering.
Lovely Crocus Hendrick
At Bowles garden today I spotted 3 pure white tommies with cream outer petals. So sad to see so many trampled by Galanthophiles
Mark, the use of grit to the top of the pot is a typical alpine garden practice: the soil don't dry so fast and it keeps the underside of the cushions dry; when watering the soil don't collapse and it prevents the grown of moss; otherwise be aware, the soil stays longer wet, especially in plastic pots!
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Wonderful collection Hendrik ! :o
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At Bowles garden today I spotted 3 pure white tommies with cream outer petals. So sad to see so many trampled by Galanthophiles
I KNEW Galanthophilia was A BAD THING!
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well there were too many people there for the narrow paths
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Hendrik,
congratulations for the early flowerage :o 8)
Like especial your nice clumps of C. abantensis, C. paschei, C. cyprius and C. veluchensis.
Very beautiful.
Anne,
C. sieberi "George" and C. tommasianus "Bobbo" are ones I put on my wish list. Very lovely.
Mark,
it is a pity for the trampled cream white tommies :'(
Finally, nothing special to report from my crocus garden - only snow and frost!
This winter season is much harder then expected...
I guess it will be a rude awakening for me when the frost will have gone - I'm afraid I lost some species :-\ :'(
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A Crocus that was accidentally dug with snowdrops that were sale at EA Bowles house must have been at least 6 inches 15cm deep
Two white tommies were OK but I saw two others that were flat
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This crocus has appeared in a pot of C. p. pallasii (Crocus Group seed 2003).
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A nice one Anthony. Is it C. baytopiorum?
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That is what I thought - nice blue and as I remember seeing it at Lake Abant.
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If it is it's a bonus as it's one I don't have, er, didn't know I did have? ;D
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That is what I thought - nice blue and as I remember seeing it at Lake Abant.
If it was Arthur it must have been planted there to lead you astray.It does not grow at Abant.
Looks like a biflorus ssp to me.
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I'll wait for the experts to pronounce ;)
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It's amazing how Crocus can suddenly spring in to life. We have just had two days of double figure temperatures. Most of my Crocus seem to have flowers now
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Just what I was thinking here are a few of mine. The Tommy Eric Smith is unfortunately slow to increase
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Perhaps slow to increase but a truly lovely form Ian.
Lesley
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Does it always have the extra petals?
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Yes Anne it always does. In closeup it reminds me of a waterlily
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It looks stunning. Is it in the open garden Ian?
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Nice Crocuses everyone. 8)
We have some in the garden one tommie that survived my mistreatment and some supermarket "blue ones".
The next day someone had take the tommie flower!!! Does mice do this take the flowers? Or is it birds??. I would presume it to be to small to be picked by humans and not so exiting but I can not be sure. I have read about the problems that the rodents eat the bulbs/corms but the flowers???
Hopefully the colchicums will grow well and next time they eat a "crocus" there will be no further next time. But since they are only sown a few days ago I will have to wait with the mimic defence.
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Ian very nice I really like he Eric Smith.
Here are some of mine today
Crocus biflorus ssp pulchricolor this is my favorite for the way the colour glows
Crocus chrysanthus
Crocus gargaricus ssp herbertii I have previously shown ssp gargaricus
crocus pestalozzae
Crocus sieberi
Crocus veluchensis
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Anthony yes in what I call my scree.
Tony lovely plants as usual
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Hi there-just rejoined. We were members a long time ago in Aberdeen and some of the Crocus I had there are now here in Bulgaria. These started flowering a few days ago and have been snowed on since. They are growing in the open garden after being in a frame, where they were attacked by voles. Consequently some are may be incorrectly identified, as surviving corms had been moved into vole larders! Any help with id's greatly appreciated.
Crocus biflorus tauri
Crocus biflorus issauricus
Crocus korolkowii
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Hi, "Sinchets" ..... I feel I ought to recognise you, but I don't.... sorry! Care to give me a clue?
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Hi, "Sinchets" ..... I feel I ought to recognise you, but I don't.... sorry! Care to give me a clue?
Hi Maggi- it was maybe 7 years ago we were friendly with Ron Smart, who we knew from the Scottish Orchid Society. We attended a few shows- where Chris won some 'Firsts'- and some meetings before we moved south- then very, very east! Simon
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Yes! I have you now- weren't you briefly down Laurencekirk way? You're looking YOUNGER!! Not fair!! Are you both well and growing orchids as well as crocus now in Bulgaria? I'll need to let Ron know you are back with us. He and Elizabeth are not too well lately, but they are cheerful as ever and looking forward, as we all are, to our outing to the Early Bulb Day on Saturday.
Are you both teaching in Bulgaria?
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Yes! I have you now- weren't you briefly down Laurencekirk way? You're looking YOUNGER!! Are you both teaching in Bulgaria?
Aww thanks - it's the portrait in the attic- that and the fact we aren't teaching any more! All of the bulbs are more than happy here- too happy really - they did very well and got the voles interested last winter. So some of them have had to be started again from diminished numbers. We had to abandon all of our nonhardy orchids in the UK - but the hardy terrestrial orchids seem happy too. Well why not we have lizard orchids as welcome weeds in part of the garden ;)
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we have lizard orchids as welcome weeds in part of the garden
Ooh! That's fun! Hardy orchids have a charm all their own, anyhow, so you're not missing so VERY much, eh?
PM me and give me all the gossip on what you're up to these days, please?? 8)
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The warm(er) weather has brought more crocuses into bloom - this lot of C sieberi sieberi have nice outsides. The C tommasinianus 'Claret ' from Thomas is a superb colour, thank you Thomas! Finally this self-sown C sieberi tricolour seems tp have something interesting going on at the petal tips. Maybe a partnership with tommasinianus 'Pictus'?
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Anne,
your first picture looks like Crocus biflorus ssp.biflorus
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Anne,
your first picture looks like Crocus biflorus ssp.biflorus
That's what I'm thinking, too, Anne
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Is the tricolor seedling in the plunge between pots Anne? I find they get everywhere and frequently have marks such as yours has, or often the zones of purple, white, yellow are less clearly defined, even merging altogether. They're all lovely tho'. Would be good in patches in the lawn I think.
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Anne your first Crocus with so big family! They looks to me as C. reticulatus subsp. reticulatus. There is no yellow sign in throat!
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The warm(er) weather has brought more crocuses into bloom - this lot of C sieberi sieberi have nice outsides. The C tommasinianus 'Claret ' from Thomas is a superb colour, thank you Thomas! Finally this self-sown C sieberi tricolour seems tp have something interesting going on at the petal tips. Maybe a partnership with tommasinianus 'Pictus'?
The dark tip thing is not unusual in Crocus sieberi, I'd say that is within the expected range of variation. I have a nice form of C sieberi sieberi with purple tip markings like that. I'll post a pic if I can find one later.
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Could someone just let me know the simple rough differences between Crocus, colchicums and Sternbergias. I could grow one of each together to find out but with so many experts on this forum I thought I could get a quick reply rather than wait years.
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Well to start with, sternbergias are always yellow or in the case of S. candida, white. So if it's pink or blue, it isn't a sternbergia.
Crocuses are corms, not bulbs, and so the storage organ is replaced each year by another or more than one. Bulbs - colchicums, sternbergias - are perennial storage organs.
Sternbergia flowers grow on short, visible stems while crocuses and colchicums have no stem as such, but tubes which come directly from the corm or bulb.
Colchicums usually (always?) have an oddly shaped bulb, with a sort of leg thing growing down into the soil and the growing tip and place where the roots come from are at the top of this leg bit (many erythroniums grow like this too).
The only yellow colchicum (so far as I know) is C. luteum.
Crocus belongs to the iris family while the others belong to the greater lily family, colchicum in a family of its own nowadays but still relatively close to Liliaceae.
Helpful at all? No doubt just about every Forumist will be able to give much better answers, and from the points of view of people with some botany.
It doesn't help that many people refer to colchicums as "autumn crocuses" especially since there are heaps of genuine autumn crocuses anyway.
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Lesley whilst I agree with most of what you say,I think colchicums make a fresh 'bulb' each year. The remains of the old one is usually shrivelled within the tunic.
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Oh really? I didn't realize that. Thanks Tony. So are they not a true bulb then?
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I agree with Tony : Colchicum is a corm, not a bulb.
Crocus ( Iridaceae ) : 3 stamens
Sternbergia, Colchicum ( Amaryllidaceae, Liliaceae - Colchicaceae ) : 6 stamens
Hera, you can found some good explainations :
http://delta-intkey.com/angio/images/colch850.gif
http://www.crocusbank.org/Saffron%20crocus%20morphology.jpg
and sorry but no link about Sternbergia :-[
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Anne, your Crocus sieberi looks like biflorus, but Ibrahims observation about
the lack of yellow in the throat points indeed for C. reticulatus.
You caught the colour of tommi 'Claret' perfectly!
Pat, Colchicum and Sternbergia can be kept apart from Crocus when in
flower by their stamens like Fred mentions above.
After flowering Crocus have grass-like leaves up to maximum 1cm wide
with a white median stripe on top, while Colchicum and Sternbergia have
much larger and wider leaves.
Hope this helps.
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Dirk, you are quite correct - the label does say Crocus biflorus ssp.biflorus, I hadn't looked!
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Could someone just let me know the simple rough differences between Crocus, colchicums and Sternbergias. I could grow one of each together to find out but with so many experts on this forum I thought I could get a quick reply rather than wait years.
Pat Lesley has give you a pretty good explanation and I showed a picture of a dissected crocus flower along side a colchicum which may help - you will find it here Bulb log 42 2008 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2008/151008/log.html/) or, if this linkl doesn't work.... here....
http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2008/151008/log.html
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Anne - missed the name on the big potful of striped crocus - assumed it was biflorus biflorus, that's what happens when you check the forum late at night ;)
I agree with Thomas. It could be Crocus reticulatus but it would be a remarkable performance to get such a fantastic potful 'by accident' and the shape and markings are very reminiscent of Crocus biflorus biflorus in its better forms. A check of the inside of the flower will help, perhaps there is a faint yellow throat?
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Could someone just let me know the simple rough differences between Crocus, colchicums and Sternbergias. I could grow one of each together to find out but with so many experts on this forum I thought I could get a quick reply rather than wait years.
Pat Lesley has give you a pretty good explanation and I showed a picture of a dissected crocus flower along side a colchicum which may help - you will find it here Bulb log 42 2008 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2008/151008/log.html/)
According to Martyn Rix, Colchicum has corms, as does Erythronium. Both are in the family Liliaceae where true bulbs are common. Interestingly, the family Amaryllidaceae has neither corms nor root tubers & is the only family to have only one type of storage organ, the bulb, albeit bulbs of different sorts.
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I thought a bulb was a compressed stem and that the layers were fleshy leaves which are replaced as the new bulb develops after flowering? New bulbs are formed from the terminal and lateral buds withing the original.
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I can't judge about subspecies name but it 100% is biflorus.
Janis
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a few in flower today
Crocus vernus
Crocus sieberi two pictures
Crocus etruscus
thats it for a week as I am of to Scotland for a few days the highlight of which is a promised big hug from Maggi at the Dunblane show. I do not know if I feel excitement or fear and trepidation about our meeting for the first time.
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Very nice Croc's Tony !
Have fun up North and give Maggi a big hug for me will you ? ;)
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Tony has made it clear that while he will tolerate a hug, he is not to be kissed..... what a spoilsport :-X
Ian hugs people too.... it may well be a steep learning curve for Tony. do him good, I reckon.
A lot of us are keen huggers ...... ;D Well, we're a warm, friendly crowd and Scotland is pretty cold!!
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Tony has made it clear that while he will tolerate a hug, he is not to be kissed..... what a spoilsport :-X
Ian hugs people too.... it may well be a steep learning curve for Tony. do him good, I reckon.
A lot of us are keen huggers ...... ;D Well, we're a warm, friendly crowd and Scotland is pretty cold!!
oh well if I must!
On another note I have had a message to say that on my last post the pictures are not good when enlarged and I am sorry about this,something has gone wrong,I agree they are awful and I will put it right when I get back.I should say how pleased I am that I got the message it is helpful to know if there is a problem.
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Here is a strange crocus? I was thinking to polinate by hand but there isn't a style ;D
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Here's a peek inside from 2008.
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It's Crocus biflorus ssp biflorus then - still a great potful. Anne you grow them better than I do! Really!!!!
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Yes, it is a really great potful. I will need many years to increase mines like that.
Here are two of mines which seems lovely to me, but it was rainy and camera couldn't made clear photos sorry about it.
Crocus x paulineae
Crocus biflorus adamii dark stained
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The sun shines here at last :D Hopefully it will shine for you too Ibrahim.
After our long cold (by our standards) wintry spell it is warmer and brighter. Many crocus look good at once. Here is a taster - I'll post more when I have all the pics sorted.
Crocus imperati suaveloens - you've seen it before but its a beaut every time.
Crocus angustifolius Bronze Form - a good doer (thanks David & Carol), Note the soft sulphur yellow as opposed to the bright gold of the 'normal' forms.
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Thank you all for your lessons on the differences between crocus, colchicums and sternbergias. Now I better do the practical which will cement it in place I hope. Ian the link did not work and when I looked through log 42 it wasn't there. I also, in the meantime, found on my bookshelves a book I should use more often: Bulbs The bulbous plants of Europe and ther allies by Christopher Grey-Wilson ad Brian Mathew with illustrations by Marjorie Blamey. There is certainly many groups within the Crocus genus.
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WOW Tony, what a fantastic sight! I think the crocuses must like how I treat my daffodils, as they get the same treatment. Certainly no special skill involved.
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Breathtaking pictures Tony !!! :o
Do they have to drag you out of your greenhouse when there's some sun at this time of year ??? ;D ;D
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Sorry that link did not work, Pat.... this should.... for Bulb Log 42 of 2008...
http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2008/151008/log.html
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A fabulous sight to greet you when you go out in the morning Tony.
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Tony
That is a fantastic display !!!!! :o :o
I don't understand how can you do anything else but sitting all day next to it..... ;)
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A teaser - can you name the parentage of this Crocus. Sadly not one of mine :(
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I have 2 clones of Crocus abantensis but they are not so similar as expected; what do you think about them ?
clone 1
(http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/84/35/03/eos5dm24.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=415&u=11843503)
clone 2
(http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/84/35/03/eos5dm35.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=428&u=11843503)
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Fred
both very nice, marginal preference for Clone 1
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I would like to know if you think both are C. abantensis
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Fred - Clone 1 looks like C abantensis. Clone 2 looks like C biflorus pulchricolor.
Art - cvijicii x veluchensis although it might even be cvijicii x sieberi sublimis. Very elegant shape.
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Here is the first installment of the crocus rush!
As Anne W showed us a nice Crocus sieberi with dark tipped petals recently, I'll start with some Crocus sieberi forms
Four pots of Crocus sieberi ssp sieberi including a dark tipped form, all seed raised.
Crocus sieberi ssp sublimis Tricolor - from wild seed, not the trade clone. A bit smaller and rounder.
Crocus sieberi ssp sublimis - fantastic big slightly bicoloured flowers
Crocus sieberi ssp atticus - slight variation
Crocus rujanensis - considered by some to be a form of Crocus sieberi but subtly different in my limited experience of it.
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Art - cvijicii x veluchensis although it might even be cvijicii x sieberi sublimis. Very elegant shape.
Yes cvijicii is one parent
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Tony
Spectacular Crocus
Seeing sieberi tricolor alongside sieberi sieberi, it is difficult to see why tricolor has gained such popularity. Sieberi sieberi is elegant by comparison and the colour combination is, in my view, a much pleasing one.
Look forward to the next instalment
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Art - cvijicii x veluchensis although it might even be cvijicii x sieberi sublimis. Very elegant shape.
Yes cvijicii is one parent
x pelistericus then?
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Tony what a great selection of sieberi. The first of the seed I had from you in Dec 2005 is showing for flowers and the rest look like they should flower next year so ONE DAY maybe 8)
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Tony,
these sieberi forma are out of this world !! :o
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Art - cvijicii x veluchensis although it might even be cvijicii x sieberi sublimis. Very elegant shape.
Yes cvijicii is one parent
x pelistericus then?
Apparently is is sieberi 'Bowles White' ???
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Tony G,
what a great pleasure to see your crocus bed. Spring is the best season of the year ;D
Your C. sieberi ssp sieberi is stunning! :o But also this very beautiful C. sieberi ssp sublimis Tricolor - from wild seed - delights me.
It has a much larger yellow center with comparatively wider white ring and with fine feathering compared to the commercial clone I have.
C. rujanensis is also one I'm interested. Do you have a picture who shows the center?
brgds
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Some Crocus from the bulb house
Crocus sieberi 'Midas Touch'
Crocus sieberi 'Midas Touch'
Crocus reticulatus 'Janis Ruksans'
Crocus korolkowii
Crocus korolkowii
Crocus malyi - thanks Dirk
Crocus vernus 'Fantasia' - thanks Dirk
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I have 2 clones of Crocus abantensis but they are not so similar as expected; what do you think about them ?
Fred your second form also can be right C. abantensis. Around lake Abant there is always pale forms like first one but on the top of the mount Abant, rare but it is posible to see dark form like yours. First you should be sure that the both have reticulatus corms! Here is my dark form from wild.
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Ibrahim
Waht a stunning Crocus :)
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Many thank's Ibrahim, but I'll have to wait some weeks before to have a look on corms :)
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Here is some more of the crocus-fest!
Crocus biflorus ssp tauri - came as seed with an HKEP col number. Very different to the bicoloured and vigorous form that many of us grow.
Crocus biflorus ssp pulchricolor - 2 shots different flowers in each. These came as seed labelled biflorus x chrysanthus Marcus Harvey collections but they look like ssp pulchricolor so far.
Crocus biflorus ssp ? - Came as seed labelled ssp nubigena which it is not. Bumble bee damaged flower was a delicate bicolored beauty with very bright orange/yellow throat.
Crocus biflorus ssp ? - 2 shots - different source.
Crocus biflorus ssp pulchricolor white seedling. Could be a hybrid with something else in biflorus group!
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Crocus Time!! Yippee!!
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Thank you all together for the wonderful pics of crocuses!
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Great photos everybody.
Today we had 5°C outside, but still most parts of the garden are frozen.
First shots are emerging on korolkowii, michelsonii, reticulatus ssp hittiticus
and lots of snowdrops. Hope to have some more days above freezing point
to start this years crocus season soon!!!
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.....
...... and lots of snowdrops. Hope to have some more days above freezing point
to start this years crocus season soon!!!
Then the best is yet to come :)
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A teaser - can you name the parentage of this Crocus. Sadly not one of mine :(
They look like some of my cvijicii x veluchensis seedlings, as Tony says.
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I go away for three days, experience the two warmest days of the year, badly wished I was at home and you guys fill the forum with photos!
Please please please add the name of you bulbs to the edited image. I dont like scrolling up and down trying to work out what is what
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I usually do Mark but if images are posted of one plant per post then it does not matter, so that could be an easier way. Most important is to name the plant in the text of the message to help with searches and I think everyone has got that right :)
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Sorry Tony, I wasnt shouting at you personally I didnt notice your images and just went straight to the text box. It happens across the forum
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Sorry Tony, I wasnt shouting at you personally I didnt notice your images and just went straight to the text box. It happens across the forum
Apology accepted - I find people listen harder when you whisper ;)
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Tony, That is a very nice crocus show! The each subsp. of biflorus can have very different forms.
I have walked whole day through in C. biflorus adamii but I have seen only one striped and it was also much darker than others. If I didn't know this, It could be very hard to tell what it is. And a few more from wild.
Crocus biflorus .... forms
Crocus olivieri subsp. olivieri
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Must have been a very pleasant walk Ibrahim ! ;)
Thanks for sharing these ! I like the striped biflorus !
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For Maggi these are All Gold (but not Terrys I'm afraid :D)
Crocus cvijicii - this form really does have the darkish tips to the petals.
Crocus flavus ssp flavus
Crocus flavus ssp dissectus - has a more divided style
Crocus gargaricus ssp gargaricus - almost leafless at flowering
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Your golden wishes gratefully received, Tony :D.... dry here but not crocus opening weather. :(
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Wow! That was a quick response! .... My mother warned me about Fast Women :o 8) ;)
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Wow! That was a quick response! .... My mother warned me about Fast Women :o 8) ;)
And your Mum was quite right Tony.... though I must admit I am built more for comfort than speed :P Amazing how speedy I can be in pursuit of new flower pictures, though. :D
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yesterday in eastern germany- not a sign from spring
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I think I've said it before but here goes again - After white snowdrops I adore yellow and orange Crocus.
Does anyone have a photo of Crocus vernus clone B?
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Seeing all these early bulbs must be starting to make you feel somewhat frustrated Dirk...
But never mind... your time will come ! ;)
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yesterday in eastern germany- not a sign from spring
No sign of spring, but a small happy child with a magnificent snowman!! 8)
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Does anyone have a photo of Crocus vernus
clone B albiflorus B? Mine are deep purple
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Never heard of it Mark - give us some clues. I have a few different clones but there are not enough letters in our alphabet for the variation I've seen in the wild plants.
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I'll go out and check the label again ..... thats what I have written on the label
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Mark,here is what I have under that name.
Crocus vernus subsp.albiflorus B
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and I forgot to mention I have my first seedling Crocus in the garden. I tried taking photos but there wasnt enough light. It looks like vernus heuffelianus. It has greyish outers with purple tips. The only Crocus in the bed are mostly tommies and a few sieberi
Crocus kossaninii 'April View' is flowering now which goes to show that Galanthus and Crocus named for a flowering time doesnt work
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That looks like it. Is it very dark to the eye?
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What are we supposed to call these if not minimus?
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Mark,Crocus vernus subsp.albiflorus B should be pure white with dark purple flower tube,obviously a mistake by the supplier,most unusual for him.
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Here's the group of tomm 'Claret' from last year and my C. minimus
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The Narcissus thread has recently shown plants growing in rubbish. Here is Crocus tommasinianus growing in a strip of wasteland used for fly tipping at the top of the railway embankment on the approach to Brighton Station. They seem to thrive on their diet of rubbish & look bigger & healthier than the plants in nearby gardens or in my own.
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There's a lesson in there somewhere.
This clump of C tommasinianus roseus looks great, but close inspection shows every flower to be striped, presumably by virus. Can anyone swap me something for a bulb or two of a clean stock?
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Anne I have clean stock
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Here are some of mine from today. Crocus versicolor ex. Dept. Var is from Dirk (I find that Var is a French Department, something like a UK county) followed by C. sieberi ssp sublimis f. tricolor also from Dirk. I have clumps of what I think is C. tommasinianus 'Ruby Giant' dotted around the garden but have never been sure that it is not 'Whitewell Purple' can anyone ID it please.
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What are we supposed to call these if not minimus?
A stunning potful Anne, but why would we NOT call them minimus?
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Here is Crocus tommasinianus growing in a strip of wasteland used for fly tipping at the top of the railway embankment on the approach to Brighton Station. They seem to thrive on their diet of rubbish & look bigger & healthier than the plants in nearby gardens or in my own.
Presumably these too, were someone's "rubbish" Gerry?
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Crocus kossaninii 'April View' is flowering now which goes to show that Galanthus and Crocus named for a flowering time doesnt work
Not only crocus and galanthus Mark.
In NZ Rhodo 'Christmas Cheer' flowers May-August and N. 'February Gold' flowers in September. There is a certain arrogance about the people who name such plants. They ignore the fact that there is a world apart from England.
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Yes Davis, VAR is a french department, where Crocus versicolor grows as well as in ALPES MARITIMES.
I hope we'll be able to show you them in the wild with Thomas in few weeks :)
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Rhodo 'Christmas Cheer' used to be forced for the Christmas market - I was told
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Mark,here is what I have under that name.
Crocus vernus subsp.albiflorus B
Michael, vernus ssp albiflorus has a style much shorter than the anthers and is smaller thank ssp vernus,
so I guess your plant with the long style is ssp vernus.
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Janis Ruksans states that the true C minimus is the last crocus to flower, and any that flower early, as these do, are not the true species. Maybe we should just call them C minimus of gardens?
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Flowering time is very much influenced by the growing conditions. Not just at flowering time but throughout the season from planting to flowering. In cultivation this effect is exaggerated as some of us grow frost free while others expose the plants to nature. Nature also varies - look at our German correspondents gardens right now!
Anne - you clearly take good care of your plants, they look great! Mine are more neglected :'( and will flower later.
All this said, you do have what I call the horticultural clone of Crocus minimus. I think it most likely is C minimus although I would not rule out hybrid origins with C corsicus. Does anyone have info on the origins of this widely grown clone?
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I just wanted to show you my stunning crocus lawn. I think I have a way to go to match Thomas, but at least some of them came up!
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Everyone needs a before, Anne...
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I'd hesitate to argue with Janis re crocuses but if the earlier one ISN'T minimus, what else could it be? I know there was some discussion about it a couple or so months ago but nothing resolved, so far as I remember. My own minimus is probably the last IN flower but not the last TO flower. I mean others start later but the minimus goes on longer, outlasting others. Surely it's not impossible that there are earlier and later clones of the one species? And what about the white minimus which some Australians have (ex Brian Mathew)? It is the earliest of any "spring" species, starting in early to mid winter.
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The form pictured by Anne seems to correspond fairly closely to the commercial clone of C. minimus as described by BM: "outer segments almost wholly dark purple except for the margins which are feathered purple on a yellowish ground." Anne's plant is identical to the one I used to have as C. minimus.
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I'd hesitate to argue with Janis re crocuses but if the earlier one ISN'T minimus, what else could it be? I
Crocus 'Mickymus'? ::)
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Shame! Shame!
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Dear friends,
I apologise to those who got from me wrong crocus under name C. vernus albiflorus B. It is quite mysterious for me, at first I thought that it is blue albiflorus, such are in some of my stocks and I'm carefully marking those to build up stock with blue albiflorus. Unfortunately last two springs at crocus blooming time I was very shortly in home, most of time passing in mountains and I didn't this job. For that reason this spring I limited my travels to very early and very late spring - to check all my plantings. But long style on picture shows that it is subsp. vernus. So I suppose that mix was made by mice in bulb shed where they had great fest just on crocuses before I found what happens. Previous winter we had very limited population of mice in Latvia. Small Eagle even didn't nested as it's child main food is mice. It maid me a little sleepy up to I find unexpected crocus corms on bulb sheds floor. Opening crocus boxes I was shocked finding that some are almost empty. Of course immediately everywhere I put poisons and it stopped entertainment of mice. Mice quite often is picking corm and going with through boxes to their dinner box, sometimes loosing corm by way. Real damage I saw only late autumn when I cleaned bulb shed and found behind boxes shells of thousands of crocus corms. This winter number of mice is horrible. Every week I feed them on field and greenhouses 150(!) large pellets of poison and so all winter since November, every week!
Relating commercial Crocus minimus stock. I earlier wrote that ~30 years ago I had it and another stock grown from wild collected seeds. The great difference in that what I expected from literature and what I saw in garden comparing with wild stock raised some doubt and I dissected shoot of commercial minimus and I found that it isn't really minimus by morphology of plant, I event went to conclusion that it is mini-form of another species. Later I destroyed commercial stock and I can't to check now. Most pity that I didn't write about it in my Latvian book. Of course it must be somewhere on my field notes but to go through thousands and thousands of pages of old papers from pre-computer era - I haven't time for it now.
Relating flowering time. It can vary greatly but in general for species it is more-less between certain borders. Sometimes it can be used for separating of species. Tulipa kaufmanniana is the earliest tulip in garden, superficially almost identical Tulipa tschimganica allways blooms two weeks later. The last is high mountain plant and in nature flowers much later as spring there comes later, but planted side by side in garden both species regardless of identical spring time keeps the difference in blooming time.
Look in old Bowles Handbook - he clearly marks that minimus is the last crocus in bloom, although he suppose that his plants are highlanders. I haven't more commercial stock but all my wild forms of minimus regularly blooms when all other species finished. By pictures I saw that some of you have large stocks of commercial minimus - try to pick up one plant and check its prophyll, bract, bracteole and their dimensions. I'm afraid that I got that commercial minimus is closer to imperatii in which bract and bracteole are equal, green tipped, but in minimus bracteole is narrow or even absent. But 30 years old memories are 30 years old. Would be pleased to read about your observations.
Here outside is snowing. We had minus twenty on Sunday, now minus 2 C, weekend again offered colder.
Yours Janis
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Janis you are very honest with your mistakes. Others are not.
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Thank you for that, Janis. Bowles also says of his minimus that they are very slow to increase except by seed, while the form I have increases very freely vegetatively (if you want some I have LOTS). I have looked at Bowles' diagram of the parts of a crocus, and cannot match them to the parts you mention, but I will try to dissect one of them tomorrow and measure the various parts.
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Thank you for that, Janis. Bowles also says of his minimus that they are very slow to increase except by seed, while the form I have increases very freely vegetatively (if you want some I have LOTS). I have looked at Bowles' diagram of the parts of a crocus, and cannot match them to the parts you mention, but I will try to dissect one of them tomorrow and measure the various parts.
Anne - this diagram from Mathew may help with your dissection. I wouldn’t set too much store by Bowles’ remarks. The forms of species selected for commercial exploitation are frequently those where vegetative increase is fast.
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Here are some of my tommies loving today's sun. They are supposed to be sterile but they are multiplying fast. They were planted quite evenly a fe wyears ago. Later this year I plan to put all my tommies in the ground
and the unknown Crocus from my troughs. Anyone want to confirm what it is? Last year there was one but this year there are four. The outside of the petals is cream.
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Thank you for that, Janis. Bowles also says of his minimus that they are very slow to increase except by seed, while the form I have increases very freely vegetatively (if you want some I have LOTS). I have looked at Bowles' diagram of the parts of a crocus, and cannot match them to the parts you mention, but I will try to dissect one of them tomorrow and measure the various parts.
Thank you Anne, I would like to have a pair of corms of commercial minimus just for interest to check what it really is and to compare it with picture in my memory and it would be interesting to compare it with my wild forms, too.
My address is
Janis Ruksans, P.O. Stalbe, LV-4151 Cesis distr. Latvia.
Many tanks!
Janis
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Mark your white / cream outers crocus is C tommasinanus or a hybrid with Crocus vernus. C tommasinianus often has cream or much paler outers, at least in cultivation.
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Are they worth getting excited about? There are no remanents/spots and dashes of purple on the outers. I really need a sunny day to get a good photo. Thanks
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Here are two of the three named forms of Crocus heuffelianus I grow: 'Dark Wonder' and 'Dark Eyes'. I think they are absolutely wonderful. 8)
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Crocus carpetanus this evening.
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Here are two of the three named forms of Crocus heuffelianus I grow: 'Dark Wonder' and 'Dark Eyes'. I think they are absolutely wonderful. 8)
You're absolutely right Anthony ! Great colour shades !
I'm waiting (hoping) for my 'Wildlife' to flower later (out in the garden).
Rafa !
You've got me droolin' again !! :o
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Here are some more from a week ago - the last time the sun shone while I was at home :(
Crocus reticulatus - good form
Crocus dalmaticus - 2 forms, one has larger flowers
Crocus vernus albiflorus - seed raised from Slovenia
Crocus vernus vernus - ex Paso di Faiallo (thanks Thomas)
Crocus pestalozzae - small but beautifullly formed
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Yesterday after a visit to the dentist I cycled up Earlham Road in Norwich to visit the Crocuses on the roadside and at the Cemetery. Another cloudy day but still gave me a chance to check the increasing number of hybrids appearing.
Crocus biflorus / chrysanthus forms. ? Cream Beauty; Zwanenburg Bronze; ? ? Thomas will correct me or add missing names!
Crocus biflorus/chrysanthus hybrids.
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Earlham Road crocuses
Hybrids between Crocus biflorus and Crocus chrysanthus forms planted about 10 years ago.
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Earlham Cemetery
Crocus tommasinianus forms
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Earlham Cemetery Crocus vernus forms and hybrids with Crocus tommasinianus
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Wonderful views and some very special forms Tony !!
Thanks for letting us enjoy them. 8)
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Tony,
Thanks for wonderful pictures! I don't take a special interest in spring crocus, except crocus vernus and its hybrids. So seeing such a nice variability of crocus vernus is quite pleasing!
Interesting to know that crocus season has started in your area. Crocus vernus even doens't show its tips under cold glass here in our region.
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Tony
Some of the hybrids at the roadside and roundabout have excellent commercial promise.
The cemetry is a picture
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Earlham Road crocuses
Hybrids between Crocus biflorus and Crocus chrysanthus forms planted about 10 years ago.
Absolutely gorgeous! Can only envy that something similar aren't between my hybrids!
Janis
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Here are some more from a week ago - the last time the sun shone while I was at home :(
Crocus vernus vernus - ex Paso di Faiallo (thanks Thomas)
Thanks for the photos, Tony. These Crocus from Faiallo are quite strange. I collected them
as C. medius, last spring I found flowers looking like C. etruscus, so I relabelled them to etruscus.
Last autumn one C. medius flowered which was separated by me, now you show me plants that
are clearly C. vernus - seems like I have to visit this mixed spot again!!
Wonderful chrysanthus/biflorus hybrids. From what I see on the photo the parents are Romance,
Zwanenburg Bronce and Goldilocks. Hope to find some new hybrids in my lawn this year!
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the crocus are coming to the end of the season which has been one of the best I can remember.Not too cold and enough sun to open them.a miracle.
Crocus sieberi ssp sublimis from Mt Parnassus
Crocus cvijicii
Crocus sieberi ssp sieberi from Crete
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Tony, is Earlham Gold Tip in cultivation now? ::)
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Tony I got a Crocus 'Floor Sweepings' that looks very like your sieberi.
sieberi Ronald Ginns in the sun today
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Thomas can you name this Crocus ?chrysanthus? A gardening friend bought c100 'Advance' last autumn from a local garden centre. Not one is 'Advance'.
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Wonderful potful Mark !!
Stunning Sieberi sieberi Tony ! Marvelous !
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Luc there are no more than five corms in the pot
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Very good value Mark !!
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If you smile nicely ....
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Tony,
Wonderful pictures from beautiful Cemetery , Thanks
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Tony, is Earlham Gold Tip in cultivation now? ::)
No! Unless you count the roadside location. As last year I reckon they will do fine where they are. I have provisional permission to collect from the cemetery but I'm makin do with seed which is copiously produced. Seed from the roadside plants is more elusive but I'll keep looking.
There seem to be more gold tipped plants this year, if I collect in futire I'll be looking for one which is a good increaser :)
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Lovely to see crocuses doing so well naturalised, Tony. Over 30 years ago I planted crocuses and Cyclamen coum in a narrow cultivated strip beside my parents' lawn. It has long been grassed over but there are still crocuses and cyclamen flowering. Rabbits and deer may be reducing the numbers of flowers. There are 3 flowers of Crocus tommasinianus 'Whitewell Purple' but quite a few leaves. I'm not sure if any of the chrysanthus are originals or seedlings. The bronze one disappeared the next day, obviously tastier than the others. I have dug up similar ones in the past but they have not done well in a pot.
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I've been amazed how fast flowers have been opening since the snow went. The first picture is of crocuses in the coldframe on February 17th. The 2nd is on February23rd. The pots have been moved around as some went to Dunblane last Saturday.
A lovely crocus flowering now - Crocus biflorus ssp. weldenii 'Fairy'.
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Nice collection Roma
The sun shone long enough this morning for me to run around like a blue a$$ fly bring Crocus to the living room window
Crocus chrysanthus 'Goldmine'
C. kossaninii doing well in the garden and now seeding slightly
C. tomm. 'Bobbo'
C. tomm. 10zz/lozz - I really dont know what the cultivar/selection number/name should be
C. vernus ex (former) Yugoslavia ex Tony G.
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Can anyone put a name to this Crocus
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Wonderful pictures Tony, what a treat and surely enough to make you forget the dentist - and his bill! I can imagine Forumists lining up to be planted, eventually, themselves, in that beautiful place. :)
I see in the second cemetary picture that those pesky snwdrops are prepared to sneak in absolutely ANYwhere.
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Double Crocus
Last year I planted quite a few varieties of crocus in my lawn. I was intrigued when I found that quite a high proportion of E.P.Bowles were doubles. I researched this site and then the “rest” of the internet to find out more about this phenomenon. I found very little information
Fraser Henderson posted ”I have a single Crocus chrysanthus 'Zwanenburg Bronze' flower which has 11 petals”
On February 6th 2006 Thomas Huber wrote
“Many Crocus species tend to built flowers with more than 6 petals. I'm not sure about the cause, but I think it's a saisonal genetical mistake, which will not repeat next year and also seed will not produce double flowers.
I've often seen that in chrysanthus "Goldilocks" but the only permanent double flowering Crocus is chrysanthus "Goldmine"
And Tony Goode showed a picture of Crocus biflorus in the wild
http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/5012/23624.html (http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/5012/23624.html)
Tony Goode posted October 18th 2005 (replying to Mark Smyth about Autumn Crocus)
“Mark, it is just an occasional unstable occurrence connected with conditions at flower bud initiation time in early summer. The plant probably won't repeat the extra petalled performance next year.”
Thomas Huber wrote on October 19th 2005
“There is one form of Crocus chrysanthus called "Goldmine" offered by Janis.
This is the only permanent double Crocus that I know.
Chrysanthus "Goldilocks" often forms doubles, but not permanent, just for one season.”
From the internet
The Lithuanian Bulb Garden http://members.fortunecity.com/ezhiukas/catalogue.htm (http://members.fortunecity.com/ezhiukas/catalogue.htm)
States Crocus chrysanthus GOLDMINE ” Up to now is the only double crocus. Brightest orange yellow flowers. Flowers early spring like earliest C. chrysanthus varieties.
Also
In C. tommasinianus there is one semi-double, 'Eric Smith', with a 4 x 4 arrangement, and the same occurs in some flowers of C. chrysanthus 'E.P. Bowles'. At one time there was a semi-double C. imperati, and Crispin van de Pas in his Hortus Floridus of 1615 illustrates a semi-double plants of(probably) C. biflorus and C. angustifolius. So semi-double Crocus areknown, but are unusual and certainly worth selecting.
http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/pbs/2005-March/020908.html (http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/pbs/2005-March/020908.html)
Dr John M. Grimshaw
Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens
I am interested if anyone knows the “occasional unstable occurrence connected with conditions at flower bud initiation time in early summer.”
I am sure that the growers have tried to replicate the conditions, as no doubt this would be a viable commercial proposition, but as yet no one as far as I am aware has brought this to market.
Maybe it’s something else.
Anyone’s thoughts please.
Graeme Strachan
All photos taken this morning
******"THE DOUBLE EP BOWLES PHOTOS WERE SUBSEQUENTLY FOUND TO BE GOLDILOCKS"****** :o Graeme
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Lovely to see crocuses doing so well naturalised, Tony. Over 30 years ago I planted crocuses and Cyclamen coum in a narrow cultivated strip beside my parents' lawn. It has long been grassed over but there are still crocuses and cyclamen flowering. Rabbits and deer may be reducing the numbers of flowers. There are 3 flowers of Crocus tommasinianus 'Whitewell Purple' but quite a few leaves. I'm not sure if any of the chrysanthus are originals or seedlings. The bronze one disappeared the next day, obviously tastier than the others. I have dug up similar ones in the past but they have not done well in a pot.
There are plenty of bronze shades among the plants in Norwich and the others in your picture are similar to those I identify as being originals here. Your comment about them not doing so well in a pot justifies my decision to leave them alone ;) Thanks for sharing your experiences.
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Can anyone put a name to this Crocus
Crocus vernus ssp vernus - in the form that used to be / sometimes is called heuffelianus or scepusiensis. Typical of the northern forms from the Balkans through to Poland.
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Double Crocus
Last year I planted quite a few varieties of crocus in my lawn. I was intrigued when I found that quite a high proportion of E.P.Bowles were doubles. I researched this site and then the “rest” of the internet to find out more about this phenomenon. I found very little information
Fascinating - you may have a goldmine there ;D
It may be a result of storage conditions ie just a one-off seasonal occurrence. If it is stable then you have a lucky find ... unless someone who knows the cultivars better than I do can report on this as a regular occurrence with E.P. Bowles.
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Double Crocus
Last year I planted quite a few varieties of crocus in my lawn. I was intrigued when I found that quite a high proportion of E.P.Bowles were doubles. I researched this site and then the “rest” of the internet to find out more about this phenomenon. I found very little information
Fascinating - you may have a goldmine there ;D
It may be a result of storage conditions ie just a one-off seasonal occurrence. If it is stable then you have a lucky find ... unless someone who knows the cultivars better than I do can report on this as a regular occurrence with E.P. Bowles.
Crocus GOLDMINE I selected from open pollinated Crocus chrysanthus seedlings so exact parentage I don't know. It really at present is single more or less constant double (really semi-double) cultivar making ~80% of double flowers from large corms. Crocus tommasinianus Eric Smith is less constant and here it gives some 8 petalled plants only if left undisturbed for second year and well feed in previous season.
Willem van Eeden had another double chrysanthus, but less constant than Goldmine and he got from me few Goldmine corms for intercrossing but he never informed me about results and now I think he is too old. Pity.
Several other crocuses from time to time forms semidouble flowers. I got semidouble biflorus melantherus from John Fielding but stock still is too small to judge how constant this feature will be.
Janis
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Quote from: Graeme Strachan on February 28, 2009, 11:29:53 PM
Double Crocus
Last year I planted quite a few varieties of crocus in my lawn. I was intrigued when I found that quite a high proportion of E.P.Bowles were doubles. I researched this site and then the “rest” of the internet to find out more about this phenomenon. I found very little information
Fascinating - you may have a goldmine there
It may be a result of storage conditions ie just a one-off seasonal occurrence. If it is stable then you have a lucky find ... unless someone who knows the cultivars better than I do can report on this as a regular occurrence with E.P. Bowles.
Crocus GOLDMINE I selected from open pollinated Crocus chrysanthus seedlings so exact parentage I don't know. It really at present is single more or less constant double (really semi-double) cultivar making ~80% of double flowers from large corms. Crocus tommasinianus Eric Smith is less constant and here it gives some 8 petalled plants only if left undisturbed for second year and well feed in previous season.
Willem van Eeden had another double chrysanthus, but less constant than Goldmine and he got from me few Goldmine corms for intercrossing but he never informed me about results and now I think he is too old. Pity.
Several other crocuses from time to time forms semidouble flowers. I got semidouble biflorus melantherus from John Fielding but stock still is too small to judge how constant this feature will be.
Janis
Tony – I’m “Bowled over” by your play on words. Stability of course is a major problem.
Janis – Thank you for your interesting reply. I note that no mention was made about the conditions required to “spark” a crocus into producing doubles. Can I infer that a double is a freak of nature and that its percentage success in success in future years is down to:-
1) Careful genetic selection.
2) Large corm selection.
3) Leaving undisturbed.
4) Feeding well the previous season.
5) A combination of some of the above
It appears to me that although the above are all important, there must be something missing to guarantee consistency
As “doubles” are not too unusual, I am intrigued if anyone knows whether this is a modern phenomenon or if this has been documented in the past.
However, with all this said, I am going to enjoy my EP Bowles doubles this season, give them a little TLC and see what happens next year.
Graeme
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Well, Graeme, we shall be relying on you to follow up with your observations and report back in future years :D . The fact that the flowers are what I would call "full" rather than very stuffed full doubles makes them very showy.
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Some Crocus in my meadow produces on and off double flowers, but this characteristic is not steady. In the next year the flower is again normal.
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I did a quick count today and 29 out of 104 corms produced doubles. It will be interesting to see what happens next year. ::)
Franz - What species of crocus are growing in your meadow and ones are producing doubles?
Graeme
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Graeme,
The following species had doubles flower:
C. chrysanthus, goulimyi, and sieberi. There are seed plants
Pictures are on my website – Plants in my Garden- Unusual flower.
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Franz,
Fascinating pictures of double flowers on your website. You have a marvelous garden. Bryce Canyon and Vernal Falls brought back many happy memories.
Graeme
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Double Crocus
Last year I planted quite a few varieties of crocus in my lawn. I was intrigued when I found that quite a high proportion of E.P.Bowles were doubles. I researched this site and then the “rest” of the internet to find out more about this phenomenon. I found very little information
Graeme
I know the secret how to make your crocus produce semi-double or sometomes double flowers. If you treat your crocus corms to higher temperatures (around 25-30C) during summer rest period, next season most of them will produce semidouble blooms. For this effet, I usually place my corms on a sunny window seal and cover them with newspaper to protect from sun. That's it.
This method I usually apply to my tulip bulbs, the result is:
1. even smallest daughter bulbs produce flowers;
2. rate of propagation increases:
3. single varieties produce - semidouble blooms;
4. double, parrot and fringed tulips increas their intensity - heavy double, very scalloped and intensly fringed blooms.
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Double Crocus
Last year I planted quite a few varieties of crocus in my lawn. I was intrigued when I found that quite a high proportion of E.P.Bowles were doubles. I researched this site and then the “rest” of the internet to find out more about this phenomenon. I found very little information
Graeme
I know the secret how to make your crocus produce semi-double or sometomes double flowers. If you treat your crocus corms to higher temperatures (around 25-30C) during summer rest period, next season most of them will produce semidouble blooms. For this effet, I usually place my corms on a sunny window seal and cover them with newspaper to protect from sun. That's it.
This method I usually apply to my tulip bulbs, the result is:
1. even smallest daughter bulbs produce flowers;
2. rate of propagation increases:
3. single varieties produce - semidouble blooms;
4. double, parrot and fringed tulips increas their intensity - heavy double, very scalloped and intensly fringed blooms.
Zhirair very interesting. Are there any side affects to this process as far as the tulips are concerned?
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Ian,
On tulips it doesn't have any side effects. I would say that quite it positively reflects on tulips health. I forgot to mention, that in case of high temperature treatment most non-multiflowering tulips produce multiflowering stems, others bloom together with daughter bulbs formed next to the mother plant.
As to crocuses, I just consulted Janis and should say that I was not very accurate in my remarks. As you know some species doen't like dry storage, so this method would be effective mostly for those ones, which like dry summer baking. For example, Middle Asian species.
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Graeme
I know the secret how to make your crocus produce semi-double or sometomes double flowers. If you treat your crocus corms to higher temperatures (around 25-30C) during summer rest period, next season most of them will produce semidouble blooms. For this effet, I usually place my corms on a sunny window seal and cover them with newspaper to protect from sun. That's it.
Zhirair - Interesting, but, given what we know about developmental biology, not surprising. It is well known that temperature shocks during development can produce changes in the morphology of both plants & animals. I would be interested to know what kinds of "doubles" are produced. Are they flowers in which the number of floral structures (eg, petals, stamens) has simply increased or, alternatively, flowers in which one kind of floral structure (eg, stamens) has transformed into another kind (eg, petals)?
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Thomas can you name this Crocus ?chrysanthus? A gardening friend bought c100 'Advance' last autumn from a local garden centre. Not one is 'Advance'.
Did you forget the photo, Mark? Can't help you so far ::)
Graeme, I would like to see a photo of your double from the side, but from what I can see
this is 'Goldilocks' (not EP Bowles) which I've also seen often with double flowers.
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Gerry,
It is not a temperature shock. Many tulips originate from the areas with hot summers. So 25-30 C is a good and disirable temperture for them to perform well.
Number of petals usually increases from 6 to 8, sometimes 12. Sometimes one of six petals partially do the function of leaves coloured patially green (transforming into a leaf). Actually it doesn't reflect on stamens, but the cultivars having tendency to produce double stamens perform this feauture readily.
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Gerry,
It is not a temperature shock. Many tulips originate from the areas with hot summers. So 25-30 C is a good and disirable temperture for them to perform well.
Zhirair - is this the soil temperature at the depth at which the bulbs grow?
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I mean no disrespect, but why would anyone want double crocus or tulips ??? ??? ???
In my opinion their aesthetic value is entirely due to an elegant simplicity of form. Whatever next - double junos ::) ;D
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I mean no disrespect, but why would anyone want double crocus or tulips ??? ??? ???
In my opinion their aesthetic value is entirely due to an elegant simplicity of form. Whatever next - double junos ::) ;D
Ashley - I agree completely.
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Ashley,
I'll start some experiences and I promise you 20th flowers oncocyclus stems for 2010 ;D
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;D
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Graeme
I know the secret how to make your crocus produce semi-double or sometomes double flowers. If you treat your crocus corms to higher temperatures (around 25-30C) during summer rest period, next season most of them will produce semidouble blooms. For this effet, I usually place my corms on a sunny window seal and cover them with newspaper to protect from sun. That's it
Boyed - Interesting - maybe my corms were subject to heat in storage or in transit.
Graeme, I would like to see a photo of your double from the side, but from what I can see
this is 'Goldilocks' (not EP Bowles) which I've also seen often with double flowers.
Thomas - It could be that I was sent the wrong corms by mistake from Peter Nyssen.
It was dark when I read your request for a side shot, but I have done my best. My neighbours were evidently asking questions about my sanity as I crept about my front garden taking flash photos. I hope the photos below will confirm to you that they are either EP Bowles or Goldilocks.
Thanks
Graeme
******"THE DOUBLE EP BOWLES PHOTOS WERE SUBSEQUENTLY FOUND TO BE GOLDILOCKS"****** :o Graeme
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They look like 'Goldilocks' to me, but....
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Graeme, it is not E.P. Bowles.
Regarding temperatures. High temperature regimes are usual practice in Holland used by everyone grower. Many of modern multiflowering tulips need it to form several flower buds on stem. So - when you buy original Dutch tulip it is multiflowering in first year but next season returns to normal single-head stem. And you are baying again new one as suppose that yours degenerated. Of course - in some multiflowering habit is more genetically based and don't need special treatment - wild species with several flowers on stem and some older multiflowering cultivars.
Another treatment is used for fast increasing of bulbs. First researches were made in Japan in 50-60 of last century. After first experiments were received fast increasing but lost flower. Now technology improved so that planting one large treated bulb Dutches harvests up to 5 large bulbs and receive flower, too. BUT regime must be followed very precisely up to one day and half degree level, by the way - not usable in Latvia as our summer is too short and harvesting/planting times different.
When I grew Dutch tulips I looked for new varieties all the time and my Dutch friend Jan Pennings usually got for me few bulbs of almost everyone novelty for which I looked and I was very surprised about enormously high bulb increasing rate in first season. Later it returned to average level. Secret was very simple - as I got varieties "not yet in commerce" I got treated bulbs. Commercial variety stocks are divided in two parts - for sell didn't receive any special treatment (treatment cost money), for growing in nursery all are treated.
Not all varieties respond to same treatment. Some of my hybrids Jan Pennings from initial 10-20 bulbs id 10 years increased in acres, some returned as not growable. They didn't reacted to special treatment and so were commercially unprofitable regardless of flowers beauty and other qualities.
Janis
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I mean no disrespect, but why would anyone want double crocus or tulips ??? ??? ???
In my opinion their aesthetic value is entirely due to an elegant simplicity of form. Whatever next - double junos ::) ;D
Ashley,
Good said. I totally agree with you. Simple form for tulips and crocus is just perfect and that's why I loved them. Double clones and cultivars are far worse in my opinion and I can't even compare them by beauty. Relating tulips, I just grow some double and other non-simple types just to show the variability to my visitors. I use termal treatment mainly for the purposes to increase propagation rate.
Gerry, I mean soil temperature.
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They look like 'Goldilocks' to me, but....
Nothing more to add, Lesley 8)
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Thomas, Lesley and Janis,
Thank you for the identification of my crocus pictures - So it appears that I was sent the wrong bulbs - Goldilocks instead of EP Bowles. Non the less I'm pleased with the doubles which have grown.
However,....how do experts know? Is there a definitive identification book showing photos of the genus Crocus (and their variations) that I can consult so I don't have to bother you good people again?
I consulted "The Crocus" by Brian Mathew which I borrowed from the Scottish Rock Garden Club, but it didn't help.
Graeme
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Is there a definitive identification book showing photos of the genus Crocus (and their variations) that I can consult so I don't have to bother you good people again?
This is the best identification site on species ;)
http://www.thealpinehouse.fsnet.co.uk/crocus%20pages/ (http://www.thealpinehouse.fsnet.co.uk/crocus%20pages/)
And this is the best page on hybrids ;)
http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/5012/8868.html?1129846074 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/5012/8868.html?1129846074)
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I could not have put that better myself, Diane, thank you!
Just a comment that I know that the folks now runnig Myddleton House, former home of E.A. Bowles, were searching to find "true" Crocus chrysanthus 'E.A.Bowles' without much success.
I have also read that there maybe a variety called E.P. Bowles, which is the name being used by Graeme, and this MAY be a very similar type, or merely another imposter for E.A.Bowles, under a mistaken name.......it's a minefield of confusion, this plant naming business, isn't it? I begin to see why "they" insist that all cattle and sheep etc are ear-tagged! ::)
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Thanks Diane - ONE day I will update Crocus Pages. I no longer have the relevant software/login details, its been so long :'( Perhaps I should join force with Hubi and create an all-crocus international site?
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Thanks Diane - ONE day I will update Crocus Pages. I no longer have the relevant software/login details, its been so long :'( Perhaps I should join force with Hubi and create an all-crocus international site?
I don't think there would be much argument against such a project here in the main site of the SRGC, Tony, Thomas? 8) 8)
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Thanks Diane - ONE day I will update Crocus Pages. I no longer have the relevant software/login details, its been so long :'( Perhaps I should join force with Hubi and create an all-crocus international site?
Brilliant idea.
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Thanks Diane - ONE day I will update Crocus Pages. I no longer have the relevant software/login details, its been so long :'( Perhaps I should join force with Hubi and create an all-crocus international site?
I don't think there would be much argument against such a project here in the main site of the SRGC, Tony, Thomas? 8) 8)
Maggi are you suggesting that the Main Site would provide hosting space for such an enterprise?
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I would respectfully suggest that the volume of traffic and vibrancy of the SRGC site would make this the perfect home, Tony.
And the Forum is already the spiritual home of the Croconuts, is it not? :D
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Somewhere a while back there was a publication which had an article about cultivars of Cr. chrysanthus/biflorus and every one was illustrated. I particularly remember it because it included the exquisite 'Kittiwake' which I had many years ago but no-one seems to have now. Does anyone remember the article? It could have been in "The Garden." I don't get that myself but could have seen it at a friend's house so it would probably have been at least a couple of years ago.
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Lesley, I think this is the article you remember...
The Crocus chrysanthus – biflorus Cultivars. The New Plantsman 4(1):6-38.
1997
There is an update by B. Mathew, in 1982. - but I can't find it!
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Quote from: Graeme Strachan on Today at 04:39:41 PM
Is there a definitive identification book showing photos of the genus Crocus (and their variations) that I can consult so I don't have to bother you good people again?
This is the best identification site on species
http://www.thealpinehouse.fsnet.co.uk/crocus%20pages/
And this is the best page on hybrids
http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/5012/8868.html?1129846074
Diane,
The pictures of the Hybrids that Thomas took are a great help in identification (Goldilocks v EP Bowles). Presumably the major difference is the colour.
The knowledgeable experts here must have learned how to tell the difference between named crocus from somewhere, presumably from a reference book of some sort. Does this exist?
Graeme
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Mmmm, that will be it. I must get my N.I. friend to photocopy it for me.
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presumably from a reference book of some sort. Does this exist?
Apart from Mathew's book,which mainly deals with species, there is not much to help with crocus.... in exactly the same way as there are huge gaps for up to date books on Fritllarias, Narcissus, Iris and just abut every other bulb...it is one of life's great frustrations.
It is also what makes this Forum such a useful place, because anyone is free to pose their questions here and usually get a sensible answer..... that's not guaranteed, of course! :D
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The knowledgeable experts here must have learned how to tell the difference between named crocus from somewhere, presumably from a reference book of some sort. Does this exist?
Graeme
Graeme I think some of the Crocus people have been growing them for a very long time and back in the dim, dark ages, there were far fewer about so that mix-ups weren't so common as they are today. The first ones I imported from Holland came in the 1960s. The stock available then was correctly named, much closer to their original selectors/breeders than they are today and so easier to ensure correct identification. There were fewer species about too, as many have been collected in the last part of the 20th century. Likewise, of those that WERE around, there were perhaps a very few forms, not the wide variation within a species that we see today. Look at CC. biflorus and sieberi or tommasinianus, as examples. There are so many different wild forms as well as cultivated selections. In effect, the oldies among todays gardeners grew up with these, knowing them as well as they knew their roses or old forms of sweet peas.
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The knowledgeable experts here must have learned how to tell the difference between named crocus from somewhere, presumably from a reference book of some sort. Does this exist?
Graeme, my best source of knowledge is the article mentioned by Maggi,
in the New Plantsman, published in 3/1997. All the cultivars are shown
by photo and the list is nearly complete.
Maggi, I will contact you private how we can manage a website within the
forum about all the cultivars I know.
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Thomas,
Thank you. I am about to try and get my hands on a copy of the The New Plantsman 4:1 1997
To Everybody - Thank you for being so kind in taking the time and effort to respond to my posts.
regards
Graeme
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Found the pics of crocus hybrids from the old forum most informative, Thomas. Can you please confirm if the following crocus is chrysanthus 'Skyline' ? It came as a single corm in a batch of 'Blue Pearl' from Broadleigh a few years ago. The 'Blue Pearl' has dwindled to small corms with just one flower this year but this is multiplying and flowering well.
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Thomas will have a good(e) answer I am sure ;)
A Goode thinks your lovely crocus might be a tommy ;D.
I often get asked about 'stray' crocuses .... most of them are tommies!
Joking aside, looking at the side view I wondered if you had a stray Crocus etruscus but seen from above that does look like a Crocus tommasinianus. It is a lovely form with the feathering on the outer petals and you have done well to get such a super potful.
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Roma I have nothing to add to Tony's comments: Your plant looks clearly like C. etruscus!
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If there is "never any yellow in the throat of a tommie", then Roma's lovely stranger cannot be a tommie, there is certainly some yellow there, it can be seen from above and from the side, I am sure that it is real yellow and not a reflection from stamens.... I vote etruscus! Nice potful, Roma. :)
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Thank you Tony, Thomas & Maggi. I will label the pot etruscus and try to remember to examine the corm when I repot.
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Found the pics of crocus hybrids from the old forum most informative, Thomas. Can you please confirm if the following crocus is chrysanthus 'Skyline' ? It came as a single corm in a batch of 'Blue Pearl' from Broadleigh a few years ago. The 'Blue Pearl' has dwindled to small corms with just one flower this year but this is multiplying and flowering well.
I don't think that this is SKYLINE
Janis