Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Seedy Subjects! => Grow From Seed => Topic started by: Katherine J on January 19, 2009, 09:12:45 AM
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Hello Everybody,
I see all of you from Scotland, UK, Ireland and the milder regions of Europe sow your seeds at the beginning of January.
BUT: here in Hungary we have had quite severe (and long lasting) frosts without any snow for about 4 weeks already. All my seeds sown last autumn (which haven't germinated) are outside, and the compost is hard like stone. :'(. If I sow now and water, they too will be frozen in a few days. So I thought I put the seeds in the fridge and wait a few weeks, watching the forecast.
OR I sow them, and put them in the cellar. But there are 7°C, and very little light. What if they begin to germinate in a few weeks, and I can't put them outside to get more light?
Before being SRGC member I've got seeds through seed exchanges of our garden club here in Budapest. Those seeds arrive usually only in March, so they can be sown without trouble (though a little too late, I think).
What do you say to that? I'm curious of every opinion from all around the world.
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Kata, unless any seeds require specialist treatment, e.g. warmth, then I would be inclined to sow the seeds now in slightly moist compost and put them outside without any further watering. They will then get the same ongoing treatment as your other seed which I am guessing you are successful with.
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They will then get the same ongoing treatment as your other seed which I am guessing you are successful with.
Yes, this is the question, whether am I successful with or not. ??? Until now I've sown always in February or March (and all my friends here did the same). This is the first time I sowed in autumn. ::) I will see if they survive, but I don't want to distroy my SRGC seeds.
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Kata, I don't know what sort of seeds you have, but this site on winter sowing might be of some benefit to you.
http://wintersown.org/wseo1/How_to_Winter_Sow.html
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Katherine,
Coming from a climate harsher than yours I can assure you that the seeds planted in the autumn should be fine, even with little snow cover. I do a lot of outdoor sowing and it always works out well. I have never placed any seed out right now. When I get the SRGC seeds they will go into my fridge potted or in vermiculite. There are limits. A fridge full of seeds not food is not greeted kindly. At work I have a cold room which is a little cooler than your cellar and I will put all the material than wants a cold period and they also do well. Put them out when you can you can though. Many seeds like that 'spring' cool and warm. Good luck.
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Kata,
I sow my seeds I get from seedexchange here in the northwest part of germany in the same way you tell.
We are now frost free, but we always get a cold period mid/end of February. And get every year a late frost night in April/May. I lost a lot of the seed pot of early germination and my greenhouse is unheated.
So my opionion is, do it in the same way as in the last years.
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Probably a note from this part of the world isn't very helpful - we are Zone 9 - but I tend to sow seeds as soon as I get them. In recent years this has literally been in every month - sometimes every week! - though the year. I've sown many including Crocus Group seeds from October until now (mid summer) and am having excellent germination with many things (including most crocuses). It has been rather damper than usual thus month though. I put my newly sown seeds outside usually and they take whatever the weather throws at them but for the last year I've put many pots in my tunnel until they begin to germinate then put them outside. The tunnel is rather dim as trees have grown up around it but it is cold and airy as the cover is not a plastic sheet, but a knitted fabric, so letting air and water through.
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If you have space and enough seed you could try 2 ways. Sow some now and keep some to sow later. Then you will learn for next year which is best.
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Sow some now and keep some to sow later. Then you will learn for next year which is best.
I thought exactly the same - with those which are enough. ::)
I'm happy to read so many opinions, it is very interesting and thought provoking. Thank you very much to all!!!
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When to sow?..a very good topic.
This may take some research but its a good way to learn more about what species your dealing with. Find out when the plant is likely to disperse its seeds as it would do in its natural environment and sow them then. For example plants that release their seeds in late summer will require a late summer sowing and will require a warm period followed by a cold and then warmth again to germinate.
Temperate and tropical species may germinate in spring and summer but I would not expose the seeds to your freezing winter tempretures.
Also give them the germinating requirements found in their natural environments eg alpine,woodland, bog etc.
Like was suggested some seeds need to be sown straight away and if they require a cold period, 5c and below will keep them dormant. The crisper in the fridge is generally at 5c. Anything above will trigger germination as a general rule. Cold frames are a good place for sowing seeds and the covers are lifted after the threat of frost has gone.. Snow also is a good insulator and prevents germination until the time is right and temps have lifted and so do autumn leaves with woodland species, acts as a blanket and never really freezes over like the air tempretures.
So if you want to know when your seeds will germinate do some reading, winter is a good time for that.
Hope this helps
cheers
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Stephen,
Thank you very much for your reply.
Yes, maybe I should have written what kind of seeds I had. There are mostly alpines and some woodlanders.
I'm reading much about plants, as you say, winter is a good time for that. And I also go many times in the mountains.
You have absolutely right, and I've sown the self collected seeds in the autumn, when they were spread in their habitat.
My question was not when they will germinate, but whether will the long lasting snow-free frosts do any harm to them.
I will see next spring if I were successful, or everything is frozen. ::) I know, that the best would be a place with around 0°C, but at the moment I can't afford this to them.
The seeds coming from seed exchanges can't be sown when they are spread in their habitat. :-\
Reading all your comments, I finally decided to keep them in slightly moist sand in the fridge until late February, and then sow.
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Playing golf Kata ?? ;D
(new avatar)
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Playing golf Kata ?? ;D
(new avatar)
;D
No, the sunshine at 3000 m is usually too strong for my poor head. ::) The pic was taken somewhere in the Dolomites...
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For example plants that release their seeds in late summer will require a late summer sowing and will require a warm period followed by a cold and then warmth again to germinate.
Temperate and tropical species may germinate in spring and summer but I would not expose the seeds to your freezing winter tempretures.
Also give them the germinating requirements found in their natural environments eg alpine,woodland, bog etc.
Like was suggested some seeds need to be sown straight away and if they require a cold period, 5c and below will keep them dormant. The crisper in the fridge is generally at 5c. Anything above will trigger germination as a general rule. Cold frames are a good place for sowing seeds and the covers are lifted after the threat of frost has gone.. Snow also is a good insulator and prevents germination until the time is right and temps have lifted and so do autumn leaves with woodland species, acts as a blanket and never really freezes over like the air tempretures.
So if you want to know when your seeds will germinate do some reading, winter is a good time for that.
Hope this helps
cheers
It ain't necessarily so. My experience (50 years of it) is that seeds will frequently behave quite differently in cultivation from how they will in nature. No doubt climate and human intervention such as watering etc have much to do with this. I will always go with the "sow as soon as I receive it" regime because this means the seeds lose as little viability as possible from lying around. My climate of course is relatively benign and not subject to LONG periods of freezing or snow or especially freeze/thaw conditions. We rarely have more than 3 or 4 days of frost without a break and snow lies for just a day or two at most. In ANY conditions, though, my feeling is that seeds will germinate when they're ready to and if that's early on, so much the better, for me.
If you do your reading and research over winter, you may find they should have been sown in the autumn. :)
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Lesley ofcource seeds are opportunists and they will germinate if the conditions are right when brought into cultivation but human intervention isnt allways favourable, one does have to consider the destructive nature of fungi, bacteria and the harsh climatic conditions of frost, freeze, drought that will destroy the germination of seedings if the sowing time is wrong or too early/late..eg Meconopsis will germinate in autumn if sown but is best to be sown in the spring as there is a risk of losing them through winter and its more work to keep them in an alpine house for this period and yes your right seed will lose viability and meconopsis is one so its best to store them in air tight containers, I try not to leave them lying around.
Yes emphemera seeds need to be sown straight away and species that have dormancies that are activated when stored dried. I generally try not to go into too much effort when it comes to germinatings seeds. Like you say seeds know when the time is right.
Cheers :)
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I am in Bulgaria winter here is a 3 months affair and usually cold. I grow a lot of plants from seed - some might call it an obsession -as i save seed from just about every plant i grow and sow just to see if anything interesting as happened. Bulb seed i sow in September and October and with alpines i start in November, as some of the North Americans i grow need 3 months of cold before anything will happen. I wait until now to start sowing alpine seed that i know isn't too fussy about how much cold it gets. Pots are left outside and have been variously rained on, frozen solid and snowed on. Most mornings for the past few weeks have had hard frosts, but i am continually surprised that when the pots defrost i can find newly germinated seeds. Today i had Fritillaria raddeana, pyrenaica and lusitanica, Tulipa vvedenskyi, Leptodactylum californicum, Lathyrus roseus and Eremostachys molucelloides. Once pots germinate they go into a frame to keep the worst of the weather off them.
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Leptodactylum californicum ? I Don't know this.... hints, please?
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Leptodactylum californicum ? I Don't know this.... hints, please?
Sorry my mistake- never type from memory without checking first - should be Leptodactylon californicum.
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Leptodactylum californicum ? I Don't know this.... hints, please?
Sorry my mistake- never type from memory without checking first - should be Leptodactylon californicum.
And I must be getting dim.... I should have guessed!! :-\
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Simon,
this is cheering, thank you!
I also found some germinated Fritillaria, Lewisia rediviva (!) and Helleborus torquatus (all from kind Forum members) a few days ago, after the hard frosts. :o :)
Now again is frosted everything (not the germinated ones!).
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Hi again I was lucky to find and bring under cover germianted pots of Lewisia brachycalyx just before it started snowing. I know they wouldn't have minded being buried by snow- but you have to feel sorry for them- we have just had 75 cm of snow in the last 24hours- it's hard to even see where the nursery is now!!