Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: mark smyth on January 12, 2009, 07:05:17 PM
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I'll kick off a new year with Galanthus 2009'
Ivy Cottage Corporal
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I knew I could rely on you Mark ;D
My Ivy Cottage Corporal is a few days away from opening but as it's dark when I leave for work and when I returtn from work, I'll just have to wait until the weekend to see it.
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The Book lists a Ron Ginns (plicatus) and a Ginns Imperati (nivalis hybrid). Does anyone know of other galanthus bearing the "Ginns" name? (I know this is inviting quips about Ginn & Tonic). If no reply posts I'll assume there aren't.
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Is it pronounced as in 'gin' or as in 'guiness'?
Careful asking for a gin and tonic on the Isle of Lewis. It is pronounced 'chin'. Is that a double chin you have? My son once said 'you have some gravy on your chin dad'. I went to wipe it off and he said 'no, the once two chins below!!!" >:(
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Given that we have seen loads of pictures of just one, or maybe a couple of Snowies artfully showing their little green bits, is no-one going to post a pic of how they actually grow them in the garden. You know, little clumps dotted around, all with little signposts. I for one would like to see.
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It's January - where are the snowdrop photos? Dont rely on me to keep y'all hooked this year. ::)
Not the best photo but I'll get a better one next week. G. 'Ecusson d'Or'
'Florence' is badly virused
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Given that we have seen loads of pictures of just one, or maybe a couple of Snowies artfully showing their little green bits, is no-one going to post a pic of how they actually grow them in the garden. You know, little clumps dotted around, all with little signposts. I for one would like to see.
I have some pics from last year but usually take the labels out when doing arty stuff cos they are nasty plastic things. ( I'm gradually going over to metal labels )
The first has rhizenensis in the foreground I think, then merlin, then plicatus.
Maybe it will be gloriously sunny in Devon tomorrow and I can take some new ones.
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I have Galanthus plicatus 'Colossus' and G. elwesii 'Hiemalis' out, but not really worth the pic. Galanthus rizehensis will be out soon, but everything else is in tight bud, or just poking above the ground. 'Lightbulb' won't flower this year, but is looking healthy. 'Wendy's Gold' is where I left it and hasn't moved in all the time I've had it. A goodly clump now. Looks like 'Spindlestone Surprise' has two flowering bulbs this year, but like 'Wendy' and many others, it is just above the ground. I hope some of these will be ready for the Early Bulb Display which is a month away yet.
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I like what I see. Thanks for sharing
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I was in Devon last February and would have liked to have known you back then.
There is a new thread open for Galanthus in January
edit by M....and I've moved the posts across to it!
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A few of my recent photographs:
A Galanthus reginae olgae called Amigo that has been flowering for about a month now
A very late Peter Gatehouse
An eagerly-awaited virescent elwesii ("H.D.")
A plant I did not like the look of last year and isolated showing a "burnt" leaf tip which is said to be charcteristic of Stagonospora curtisii in year 2 (photographed in my living room).
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That looks like it.
I have a late Peter Gatehouse also
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I have some pics from last year but usually take the labels out when doing arty stuff cos they are nasty plastic things. ( I'm gradually going over to metal labels )
[/quote]
Jo, are you able to post a pic of one of your metal labels? And does the writing fade or is it semi-permanent? And where it can be obtained? I saw some good ones at Matt Bishop's Garden House in Devon last year.
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Thank you Jo, that's what I wanted to see.
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Hi Steve
I'm gradually going over to punched aluminium tags, Alitags. After punching I fill in the name with a fine black label marker pen to make it eassier to read. On the back of the label I write in pencil the source & date.
Then, using long nosed pliers I wrap galanised wire round the nose bit to make the holder. I can then take the label off the holder and stick it by the clump when it finishes flowering and reuse the holder for the next flower. Each label takes about 5 minutes to do.
And like Blue Peter, heres one I did this morning ! Arnott not really out yet.
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It's January - where are the snowdrop photos? Dont rely on me to keep y'all hooked this year. ::)
Sorry Mark - my excuse is 3 weeks out of the country enjoying myself, followed by long hours at work this week (not enjoying myself!).
I have taken a few snaps this morning of some of the flowers at my place today.
The first couple are just managing to hang on for a few days more (these were flowering when I flew away on December 20th)
Three Ships
[attachthumb=1]
X-Files
[attachthumb=2]
Roger's Rough
[attachthumb=3] [attachthumb=4]
Richard Ayres (suprisingly strong scent!)
[attachthumb=5] [attachthumb=6]
Mrs McNamara
[attachthumb=7]
Bess (a pretty little thing)
[attachthumb=8]
Ding Dong
[attachthumb=9]
Nivalis poculiformis
[attachthumb=10]
There are so many others with buds close to bursting open if they were only given a few nice warm days ::) .....
Best wishes
John
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if they were only given a few nice warm days
and so say all of us. Nice pics John ;)
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Jings. John manages to show pics of 10 snowdrops I don't have, and I have over 70 varieties! :o
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John - Marvellous pictures. I am excited to see Richard Ayres as it hasn't flowered here to date.
But I really like Bess, she's a charmer and the Poc and .....
johnw
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John, I think Roger's bit of Rough looks alright 8)
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John, I think Roger's bit of Rough looks alright 8)
What can you tell us of 'Mrs Tiggywinkle'? You mentioned you were looking for it. It has to be special \???/ with a name like that.
johnw
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Thanks, John.
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With the arrival of the many snowdrop catalogues in the past few weeks, is there a brief list of varieties that should be avoided due to virus?
Rob mentioned 'Limetree'. 'Augustus' here is obviously afflicted yet it is thought not to transmit the virus. Why it would not do so is puzzling especially if aphids are about.
johnw.
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Rob would it be worth spraying your virused snowdrops with a long acting systemic insecticide so that if any aphids turn up they won't live to tell the tale ?
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On another note , what is the wind like tonight ?? :o :o :o
What's it like right up north Maggi ?? its really wild down here :(
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So far so good here, Jo...... I do feel for those of you getting blown to smithereens....it is getting windy, with some heavy gusts but nothing like the gales elsewhere... at least, not so far :-\ :-X
I think the three snowdrops with flowers that are visible in the garden right now will be okay. :-\
Though, even as I write, it is building... the fastigiate pine in front of my window here is flailing about now....fingers crossed for minimal damage if it worsens.
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very high winds here today also. Just in from the Ulster Group meeting to find pots lying everywhere
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Yes Rob, I was thinking of Provado, I use it on Cyclamen in pots, vine weevil being such a pain, but it does mean other creatures are knobbled as well, fungus fly and aphids for instance.
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John, I think Roger's bit of Rough looks alright 8)
But of course. Another one for the list.
johnw
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Jo - Provado is great for weevils but of late it has done nothing for fungus gnats. It was a good precaution against aphids until last month when we saw aphids on hellebores that were treated in December.
johnw
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Jo - Provado is great for weevils but of late it has done nothing for fungus gnats. It was a good precaution against aphids until last month when we saw aphids on hellebores that were treated in December.
johnw
Is this a question of the treatment somehow being less effective in colder temperatures? Less being absorbed by the plants and so on?
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provado is usually the best, however it didn't work for me with scale insects.
i had scale insects that had become completely immune to all chemicals, they destroyed my tropical orchid collection, very sad :( but that's another story.
but for aphids its great. i didn't know the spray worked on vine weevils as well? i know of the provado drench for vine weevils, this is what i use on my auriculas and rhodos etc.
not so windy down here, although i am on a island.
rob
Jo - Provado dench has not been working on fungus gnats for quite some time - in warm weather and cool. For several years, until this autumn, it has worked well for aphids on the hellebore seedlings applied in December. The seedlings under lights in the shed kept at 5c. In the cold greenhouse (again minimum 4-5c) the drench has worked against weevils on cyclamen - applied in late autumn.
Rob - While scale is not on the Provado container I have it cleaned up Clematis x cartmanii 'Joe' when applied in September. I was a bit surprised. It has also saved many a Primula from root aphids and weevils.
johnw
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Just wondering if any nivalis Pocs show on the sales tables at the RHS Shows and which ones might be worth getting.
johnw
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Do you think you've got resistance ? I was thinking of the drench, I haven't tried it as a spray, just used the wrong term.
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John a nivalis poc is a nivalis poc is a .. from what I've seen anyway. A few years ago I was in Scottish and English/Scottish border woods. They are everywhere.
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Do you think you've got resistance ? I was thinking of the drench, I haven't tried it as a spray, just used the wrong term.
Jo - Sadly I think so. For now we've switched to Orthene as a spray to see what happens.
johnw
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Rob, did you try Malathion, scale bugs need an oily substance to penetrate their waxy coat? Methylated spirit applies with a small brush should do the trick if all else fails. Or try a double dose of liquid Derris every three days for 9 days.
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i could have sworn that the provado bottle had scale insect on it!
even the one that you make up yourself, unless they have taken it of?
Rob - The registration maybe different in Canada. Mine is called Intercept (Imidichloprid 60%) and it is a soluble powder not a liquid. One half teaspoon per 2 gallon Haws.
johnw
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I have my suspicions that plants treated with provado produce nectar toxic to bees - I found many bee bodies after I watered my cyclamen with it against vine weevil.
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I have my suspicions that plants treated with provado produce nectar toxic to bees - I found many bee bodies after I watered my cyclamen with it against vine weevil.
Hi Anne
a worrying observation (not good if it is the case :( - though there are many reports on nasty things killing off bees in recent years.......)
Also - if the bee didn't quite die - would that mean that provado could then make it into honey?....
John
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Baylham and Sickle today.
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Baylham is not a name I know at all, Steve.... I'm thinking this is a double, is that right? ......Not much in the way of an ovary and I think I can spot extra underpinnings!
I do like the fat outers giving that rich lampshade look .... I'm so shallow!
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Rob you have mention virus a few times in the past. One major problem will be the way you grow them in fish boxes. They are also very susceptable to transfer of the Stagonospora fungus. How many do you have in each box? You mention earlier this week having tall ones at the back and I assume they get smaller towards the front.
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Rob you have mention virus a few times in the past. One major problem will be the way you grow them in fish boxes. They are also very susceptable to transfer of the Stagonospora fungus. How many do you have in each box? You mention earlier this week having tall ones at the back and I assume they get smaller towards the front.
Why would this method of growing be any more likely to lead to health problems for the plants than growing in pots or in the open garden? ???
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I'm thinking poor drainage, holding water too long and too close together. Of course bulbs in pots can suffer from these conditions but most of us will have one species/cultivar per pot. It the garden the various snowdrops wont be so close together.
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Nice to see Baylham out Steve, mine are only just coming through! :-\
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Everyone must be tired of the Rosemary Burnham posts but here it is with a different slant.
Photo #1 - Flower before emasculation
Photo #2 - Flower post emasculation
Photo #3 - Interior showing the anthers extracted with an extremely sharply point pair of tweezer with a steady tug, careful not to damage the stigma. The flower has been selfed.
Photo #4 - Anthers placed in a medicine capsule and shaken to release the pollen. Quite a copious amount of pollen from one flower. having been placed in a capsule with the anthers (no palm readings please unless you see a revival of stocks in the very near future)
The pollen capsule will now go into the refrigerator for 48 hours to get desiccated. Then it will be mailed off in a plastic bag with a tiny bit of desiccant to a budding hybridizer on the forum. It would be nice to get Rosemary's pollen on vigorous greens, even x Scharlockii might be interesting.
johnw
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Baylham and Sickle today.
Steve - What a brute that Baylham is! Lovely, so full and rounded.
johnw
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I dont know Baylham. Can someone post some info please
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8) Mark
I'll get out in the garden tomorrow and post a pic of the whole plant + dimensions.
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I'm thinking poor drainage, holding water too long and too close together. Of course bulbs in pots can suffer from these conditions but most of us will have one species/cultivar per pot. It the garden the various snowdrops wont be so close together.
Balderdash! A properly made fishbox trough, whether or not constructed to the aesthetic standards of the SRGC, can provide a perfectly happy plant home. When using a fish box or any other styrofoam container as a planter, adequate holes should be made in the base to allow water to drain freely... the substrate used should be mixed to a suitable recipe to provide a free-draining mix. If these requirements are not met, is it the fault of the gardener, not the container! :-X
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8) Mark
I'll get out in the garden tomorrow and post a pic of the whole plant + dimensions.
Here's hoping the weather is good enough for that! Is it a double flower, Steve?
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I dont know Baylham. Can someone post some info please
Baylham is named by Barry Carson Turner after a small village in west Sussex [correction Suffolk]and is a plicatus hybrid double. Mine are just poking through. Here's a link: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1498.15
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Well, at last the sun is showing after a couple of weeks of fog. Even
snowdrops in the unheated greenhouse haven't opened their flowers
because of the gloom.
Outside, they are delayed. The early ones were flowering in early
December, and then were flattened by almost a metre of snow which
hung around for a couple of weeks. The snow has gone except for
dirty piles in parking lots where the plows deposited it.
I was just checking pots in the unheated greenhouse, and discovered
19 neglected ones under the bench. Last spring I bought a hundred
or so pots of elwesii from a wholesaler. Each pot had four bulbs, and
of course, most were not distinctive at all. After they died down, I
removed the ones that were different and put them in small pots
with a spoonful of soil to keep them from drying out over the summer.
They were still in these almost-empty pots, and amazingly, most are
putting up flower buds. Poor things, but what a will to live. They are
now tucked up in full pots of soil.
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Anthony, I think you may be mistaken about Baylham being in Sussex. It is just outside Great Blakenham in Suffolk as far as I know, and that is what Barrie told me last year.
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My mistake. I didn't write it down, but knew it wasn't Surrey. :-[
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Surrey, Suffolk, Sussex...... you mean there's a difference? :o :o ::) ;)
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looks a bit like a mobile phone, top right-ish, next to a camera icon
Holding tongue Maggi 8)
Anthony, an easy mistake to make. I put all mine in a database so as soon as I have any information in it goes - otherwise I would happily think it came from Bristol or Bullawayo! Mind you I still put it in Streetmap to double check :D
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Galanthus Galatea doing nicely with a little bit of sun today
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These 'drops are photogenic, I'll give 'em that! Lovely portrait, Diane!
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I was just checking pots in the unheated greenhouse, and discovered
19 neglected ones under the bench.
19! :o
I had a pot that was pushed over by a cat about 8 months ago - nearly all its soil was gone but it too is trying its upmost to flower - though I must admit it is still sitting in 1cm of soil even as I write. :-[
Note to self - give the poor thing some soil!
Regards
John
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I found a pot of 'Viridapices' dug up from my mum's lawn in September and dumped in a pot outside with no soil. Loads of flower buds, so I just plonked them in a hole in front of the hawthorn hedge near the front gate. They should be fine.
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Dreadful weekend weather here, particularly on Saturday; telephone line and electricity both out; local flooding but no damage to house. So, not much going on in the garden but I made a dash outside and collected some snowdrops which I brought inside to photograph.
G. 'Brocklamont Seedling' is from a garden in Northern Ireland. I have had it for a few years and it seems to be a good garden plant, bulking up well etc and is a pretty thing.
Paddy
G. 'John Long'
G. 'Anglesey Abbey'
G. 'Atkinsii'
G. 'Brocklamont Seedling'
G. 'Compton Court'
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A few more.
By the way, I think these are as well viewed as thumbnails as I saved them at the lowest quality and they do pixellate when expanded.
Jenny Scott's Straffan came to me from Northern Ireland and is reputedly an earlier flowering form of G. 'Straffan'. It is certainly ahead of other clumps of G. 'Straffan' in my garden this season.
Paddy
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A few more.
I have posted two "Unknowns" below and would welcome suggestions as to their identity. I believe the first is G. 'Atkinsii'. The second came to me labelled as G. 'Barbara's Double' but it certainly is not double and is the first time it has flowered here. Suggestions welcome.
Paddy
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Paddy
Thanks for posting photos of your snowdrops. I have several just about to flower and they help to confirm/or not my labels.
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Very nice selection there Paddy.
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Rob.... don't add perlite to your potting mix, add gravel......3 to 6 mm gravel :)
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Rob.... don't add perlite to your potting mix, add gravel......3 to 6 mm gravel :)
Or pumice grit - light weight, porous and great for snowdrops (mops up excess moisture in containers and also improves drainage). If orchids love it, it's good enough for snowdrops. I use it in my mix for growing on twin scales and hardly ever lose any.
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I thought I might venture out and see whats surviving in the garden.
First John Gray, enjoying last nights weather.
Next Rizehensis showing two scapes per bulb.
Third Diggory going over
And last Limetree showing healthy leaves for Rob who wondered about the health of this variety.' I'm not sure if all stock of limetree are virus-ed, '
And a question, Does anyone grow Cyril Warr and is that the correct spelling because I can't see it in the book and want to do its label ?
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OOOOpps heres John Gray
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From Desirable Plants website Jo
G. 'Cyril Warr' (£5) is one of those good, larger snowdrops which get handed around, in this case in the south west, simply because they look great and perform well. I rate it for the powerful fragrance.
I don't grow it as they had run out of stock!!
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Great pictures showing an interesting selection of 'drops Paddy. Did you notice a strong scent on any while they were indoors? The flower on Richard Ayres filled my kitchen when I took it in over the weekend.
Regards
John
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Paddy the last one is 'Ding Dong'
pic copied here:
[attach=1]
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Maggi, I'm not worried that the snowdrops are in a fish box but I'm worried about the collection being in one or more troughs. Stag is known to move around snowdrops when we have very wet summers like we just had. Matt Bishop lost many of his because they were at the bottom edge of a wet slope. A lurker who is watching the Galanthus thread says virus may spread by root contact. One virused snowdrop in one trough could spread to them all.
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Paddy the last one is 'Ding Dong'
Hi Paddy
it certainly looks like the 'Ding Dong' I posted on Saturday
(http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2931.0;attach=100177;image)
Regards
John
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Good job Maggi removed my address from another thread - here's a small display of mine.
Answers on a post card to
Mark Smyth
%$ .......
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maggi, whats wrong with perlite? it helps make the heavy soil of john innes lighter and aids drainage. its a porous rock just like pumice?
i allready use grit in the potting mix, but i think it may be to heavy if i used it in place of perlite altogether?
Nothing "wrong" with perlite as such, Rob. But I have read there are questions about health implications of using it, dust, fluorine etc.....we use it only a occasionally for seed storage/ twinscaling ....we don't use it in potting compost.... :P
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Mark, if you enter them in a show I hope you clean your pots. That's my constant bugbear when judging ;)
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A few more.
I have posted two "Unknowns" below and would welcome suggestions as to their identity. I believe the first is G. 'Atkinsii'. The second came to me labelled as G. 'Barbara's Double' but it certainly is not double and is the first time it has flowered here. Suggestions welcome.
Paddy
Rather than leap into a possible mis-identification, Paddy, can I be cautious and ask if you got the mis-labelled 'Barbara's Double' from a nursery and if so who from. If it was a nursery mix-up then obviously what other snowdrops they list would help with confirming correct identity. Sorry, but I'm always nervous about saying on the forum purely on the basis of a photo that such and such an un-named snowdrop is definitely this or that without any other detective work. Mis-identification is so easy, given how alike many snowdrops look. So, nursery or gift?
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I grow orchids in 80% perlite.
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Thanks all for showing the hope, that spring will come. Dear Paddy don`t be too closefisted with the kb of the pics. When they arrive here in Germany I get only the last 30kb and if I want to zoom to see a little bit more of your fine flowers, they are checkered :-[
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Doesnt Perlite dust cause lung cancer? You aren't supposed to use it dry but add water first?
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I'll back Paddy that G. Unknown 160109.jpg is 'Atkinsii'
Does anyone not grow 'Atkinsii'?
[attachthumb=1]
Paddy's pic (copied here by Maggi)
[attach=2]
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At the risk of personal injury... I must say that any resemblance, to my eyes, between the Dong Dong and Atkinsii and the pix posted by Paddy are purely coincidental..... they're all snowies.... but identical they are not.... and if they're not identical, then how can we tell what they "are" and why have they got names in the first place? ::) ???
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Atkinsii, nivalis x plicatus, dates back to the 1860s so it's one of the old boys and named after James Atkins. It's a lovely snowdrop flowering for a few weeks in my garden. It's tall with distinctive shaped flowers especially when closed
'Ding Dong' was named by ?Alan Street after the ad on TV with the catch line Ding Dong, Avon Calling!
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Martin wanted to know what elwesii Pat Mason looks like
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I'll back Paddy that G. Unknown 160109.jpg is 'Atkinsii'
Does anyone not grow 'Atkinsii'?
Me. Yippeee!!! ;D
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Many thanks for comments on my unidentified snowdrops. I am confident with the one I named as G. 'Atkinsii'. It has been in the garden for several years and I also grow G. 'Atkinsii', a named group, elsewhere and also some of the Atkinsii relatives, 'Lyn', 'Silverwells', 'James Backhouse' and have been comparing it with them over the past few years.
Re the 'Barbara's Double' I am inclined to take Martin's approach and not jump to conclusion - it has taken me five years to be satisfied with naming the G. 'Atkinsii' above. I grow G. 'Ding Dong' elsewhere in the garden - it came from Avon Bulbs and so should be correctly named, I expect - and there is no flower showing on that group of 'Ding Dong' yet. Differing flowering times can simple be a result of bulbs not yet being established and this group of 'Ding Dong' may settle into more normal flowering time in a year or two.
Martin, you asked of the origin of the plant in question. It came from a friend and most likely there was a mix up with labelling.
And, Anthony, you don't grow G. 'Atkinsii' - well, now I know I have two large clumps of this so, if you want it you can let me know.
Hagen, sorry about the low quality of the photographs. My telephone line is down at home and the internet speed at work it atrocious so I was lowering the image size to facilitate posting them. I may post a few more today but will do so at a larger setting and post just a few at a time.
Paddy
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Back to snowdrops. I'm afraid none of these would do well in a show. As you will see several have suffered from weather damage, particularly those which are low to the ground. 'Bill Bishop' and 'Florence Baker' are unfortunate in this regard.
G. 'Anglesey Abbey' - just a better shot than the one I posted yesterday, showing a better view with more regular inner segments.
G. 'Bill Bishop' - very low to the ground
G. 'Blaris' - this is from Harold McBride in Northern Ireland. Harold found it growing in the graveyard in Blaris where his parents are buried.
G. 'Florence Baker' - a little dote of a flower
Paddy
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Despite the terrible weather we have had here over the last weekend, the snowdrops began to open. I suppose the weather was warmer even if there were gale-force winds and torrential rain.
G. 'Dionysius' - delicious!
G. 'James Backhouse' - one of the G. 'Atkinsii' tribe and showing the abberant segments which differentiate it here. Reading the snowdrops book last evening, it said that stocks of G. 'Atkinsii' and G. 'James Backhouse' were completely muddled and that one should separate out the regular and irregular flowers in the garden so as to have pure G. 'Atkinsii' and the abberant G, 'James Backhouse'. This strikes me as an unsure method of identification.
G. 'Ketton'
G. 'Lyn' - another of the G. 'Atkinsii' group and a very elegant one at that.
Paddy
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I'm not a galantophile so I normally don't interfere in the discussions here. I do enjoy some pix though. Great show you've been putting on lately Paddy. Marvelous and very detailed shots and I agree on Dyonisius - it's really striking !!!
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Last few.
G. 'Ophelia' - I really like this one, grows very well for me and I split a clump last year and spread it into a good drift.
G. plicatus 'Warham' - another doing very well for me and has increased to very good numbers
G. 'Silverwells' - another of the G. 'Atkinsii' group and I like the long outer petals.
G. 'Washfield Colesborne' - I have only a few and think this will be a fabulous snowdrop when it bulks up and makes a good spread. It is a strong grower, a tall plant, very upright in habit and has the most fabulous foliage, gorgeously glaucous.
Paddy
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Luc,
Thank you for your comments. I have been trying to recreate the style of photography used in the snowdrop book to illustrate snowdrops - the black background to set off the white petals etc. These are all taken indoors using black card as a background, lit with a table lamp and a home-made reflector - an experiment, trial and error to find the best way to do it.
Paddy
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Luc,
Thank you for your comments. I have been trying to recreate the style of photography used in the snowdrop book to illustrate snowdrops - the black background to set off the white petals etc. These are all taken indoors using black card as a background, lit with a table lamp and a home-made reflector - an experiment, trial and error to find the best way to do it.
Paddy
...and a very good job you are making of it. Well done Paddy and thanks for posting.
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Lovely photos Paddy, you're much further on than we are in Devon. Bill Bishop is only just at the surface here and Dionysius is in light bulb bud shape.
I'm looking forward to your in situ shots with a little garden in the background.
The artificial light is giving a slightly creamy effect to the petals but the black card works well.
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Exquisite show Paddy.
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Paddy, 'Washfield Colesborne' is a beauty and one of my favourites. Just a note of warning - for me (and another grower I know) it seems to do superbly for a while, making huge strong bulbs, then may suddenly succumb badly to disease. Twice I've had to rescue it by cleaning up and chipping rotten bulbs where the year before there was a strong clump (most recently after the last wet summer). It seems to suffer from some kind of bulb rot rather than stagonospora, as the bulbs go back rather than being killed outright, so it can be rescued if caught in time. I'd advise not letting clumps get too congested (although it looks stunning when it's made a dense clump) and giving it good drainage.
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Sorry, sorry! In that last post I obviously meant 'Washfield Colesborne', not 'Washfield Warham'. Am editing it now.
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Martin,
Many thanks for the warning re 'Washfield Colesborne'. My garden is particularly wet over winter, though it dries off quite quickly in late spring. Having bulbs standing in wet soil overwinter would not be best for them. I think I'll move this little clump of 'Washfield Colesborne' to a better drained position later in the year. I build a raised bed over the Christmas holidays.
Jo,
The white balance is difficult to get right and I have tried various settings in an attempt to get a clear white. I took one set in "raw" but they take so long to edit in Photoshop later that I didn't want to continue along this line. Some of the creaminess is due to weathering, I think. How I wish I could show you some outdoor shots. At present the weather here is atrocious. The snowdrops above were collected on the gallop dodging the downpour and then photographed last night. I would have imagined that Devon would be quite mild - it certainly has that reputation but I suppose we are a bit more under the influence of the ocean here. I' ve booked a holiday for Easter week to visit gardens in Cornwall and Devon and hope to see nice gardens. Any recommendations?
Brian and David, many thanks for encouragement - I'll keep trying to get this technique right as I think it shows the snowdrops well.
Paddy
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Paddy I rarely use a black background these days and now use Ian Y's method of a very pale grey card or blue sky.
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Paddy I rarely use a black background these days and now use Ian Y's method of a very pale grey card or blue sky.
What's your reasoning behind that Mark?
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I find black doesnt give a good contrast especially in very bright light. When the weather improves I'll experiment and show the difference unless someone else happens to have sunshine soon
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Martin wanted to know what elwesii Pat Mason looks like
Is that a photo from now - or a previous season?
My one is still not out - I shall still take a photo when she is. :)
Regards
John
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Thanks Mark, good to know why.
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I find black doesnt give a good contrast especially in very bright light. When the weather improves I'll experiment and show the difference unless someone else happens to have sunshine soon
Hi Mark, I may get the sunshine first - but I don't have the coloured card to experiment. ::)
If you have the time I would be very interested to read a thread on the results you obtain from a 'scientific' experiement (same plant, situation, location, light, camera settings, etc - just a different backdrop. Maybe 'black', 'light colour', 'white', 'green', and 'sky' - possibly with lamps as Paddy has used and natural light as a comparison).
I have often deliberated over what would display the astonishingly white petals of a galanthus at their best when I am taking pictures - and out of every dozen photographs I take at least 11 are fit for the bin with complete 'white outs' on the petals that are unusable by showing no detail whatsoever.
Hopefully you could find the time, but if you don't I may try to visit an art shop to purchase some sample cards and see what I can come up with for some comparison picture.
Maybe a new thread idea for anyone else willing to give their photographic skills a go?... 8)
Kind regards
John
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I work also John! ;D
'Pat' was taken yesterday.
When I get home and the sun is out the vertical blinds are pulled, old place mats are lined on the inside of the window, as shown yesterday, and I run around collecting everything that needs photographed. As I photograph one it goes back out and another comes in. I can take 100+ photos in an hour.
I have experiemnted with black, white, grey, cardboard and au naturel. A photo in situ like Jo has shown makes us want to know what's that one, what's that one... The tight close-ups I take show the finer details that would normally be missed when standing 5 or six feet away.
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I am really looking forward to seeing Paddy's photos when he again has better internet access - I think these snowies on the black background are very elegant.... and show the wee green bits very well!
John, can I suggest you have a look at Ian's Bulb Log No. 4 of 2006... he covers the subject of grey , black, cards etc there.... http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2006/250106/log.html 8)
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I am really looking forward to seeing Paddy's photos when he again has better internet access - I think these snowies on the black background are very elegant.... and show the wee green bits very well!
John, can I suggest you have a look at Ian's Bulb Log No. 4 of 2006... he covers the subject of grey , black, cards etc there.... http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2006/250106/log.html 8)
Thanks Maggi
Do you know - at work today I did loads of SRGC searches as I was sure I had seen this before - and yet I failed to find the brilliant bulb log example you have linked to. (Is the bulb log on a different search from the main forum search - that could explain why I came to the conclusion that it hadn't been covered in detail after all ::)).
Thanks for the link to an excellent example - just what I was looking for.
Regards
John x
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Yes thanks Maggi.
I now also click auto contrast on Photo Shop which helps.
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John, the bulb log index is here:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/index.pdf
The Old and New forums have their own search engines.
...here are some links to pages that may be of help to you.....
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=54.msg18312;topicseen#msg18312
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=209.msg4141;topicseen#msg4141
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=223.msg4845;topicseen#msg4845
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2503.msg58865;topicseen#msg58865
http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/321/23334.html in old forum
and this Photographic thread....http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=54.0
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This is proving to be a very good year for Snowdrops with me.
Currently in flower or bud, I have:
Three Ships
Yvonne Hay - £6 from TileBarn Nursery
Lady Beatrix Stanley
John Gray
Diggory
Modern Art - bought at the Mid-Anglia Bulb Sale for £15, proved to be 2 flowering size bulbs ;D
gracilis
Robin Hood, Bertram Anderson, Sam Arnott, Hippolyta, Bill Bishop, Merlin, Mrs Macnamara, Magnet, imperati
Augustus, plicatus
This is not the full extent of my collection, only those in flower/bud now. Considering that I only caught the fever last year, I am very pleased with the results.
Here are photos of
Three Ships
Yvonne Hay
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Here is an unlabelled (label is blank) snowdrop growing in a pot in the greenhouse. Interesting to see what it looks like open?
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Galanthus fosteri
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Maggi
This SRGC search facility looks a powerful one. How can one use it?
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Galanthus fosteri
Probably. The leaves are twice as wide as the fosteri in the other pot, but it can't be anything else.
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Maggi
This SRGC search facility looks a powerful one. How can one use it?
Both this Forum and the old forum have individual search facilities, Steve.... both similar.... for this forum, see the list of buttons at the top of each forum page...
looks like this: Home Help Search Admin Profile My Messages Calendar Members Links Logout
Just click on the SEARCH button and follow on.... try a search for fosteri, for example: comes up with 24 items in this forum not all Galanthus... ;D ( out of interest, there were three (Galanthus) results for fosteri in a search of the old forum!) If the search doesn't come up with excatly what you are looking for, try altering the search type and so on... I'm not saying it's a perfect system, but it's not bad!
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Well done Art, aren't these little white things a joy 8)
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Regarding the black background for photographing snowdrops - I am happy with the results, good contrast to the white petals and, as Maggi says, it does make the green markings stand out well which is a benefit as they are regularly used to distinguish cultivars. Having said that, I still prefer shots taken outdoors. It is just that the bad weather here has prevented that and I wished to take a set of shots of the snowdrops as they flowered this year and so was forced to take them indoors.
Mark,
I wonder if your comments re lack of contrast when using the black background refer to your camera's readings. Certainly, the camera can have difficulties focusing on the white against the black as there is, surprisingly it might seem, a lack of contrast but if you focus your camera manually this is not a problem. In Photoshop, it might be a better option to use "Auto Levels" rather than "Auto Contrast".
Paddy
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Paddy none of my 'Dionysius' have green tips. Are all of yours like this?
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I was wondering that too, as I've loads and not a one with green tips, nor such a fantastic green mark on the inners? What a find Paddy. 8)
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Anthony I'll measure my G. fosteri for a comparison with yours
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I thought I'd have a go at some of the backgrounds on indoor photos, in the greenhouse.
And show you that my Dionysius has no green outer. x 3 different background cards
But then mine doesn't look like yours Mark
But my Hippolyta pic 4 (last year ) does have green outers and my Ophelia pic 5 looks more like your Dionysius Mark ???
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Which ones are which? After a while, and once I'd got my glasses on, I worked out that the first three pics are of the same flower. But are the other two 'Hippolyta' and 'Ophelia'?
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And here is Galatea, not fully extended yet. I must say I prefer the black background and 'Feeling Lucky' option.
I much prefer pics taken outside though. I will just need waterproof knees to get low enough so that Mark can appreciate the green bits ;D
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OOppps, making a pigs ear of this as usual. I haven't worked out how to name the pics so you can see it.
Yes the other two were Hippolyta then Ophelia. And then the next post should have a blue Galatea in it. I'll look for that now ::) ::) ::)
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Galatea on a blue background, really ugly !!
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Hi Jo
thanks for the examples. I must admit that yours and Paddy's black backgrounds look so nice - but it is really difficult to get the white showing any textured detail without a complete 'burnout' block of white at the top of each petal.
I shall be on the lookout for some black card myself this weekend as you have both inspired me to give it a go myself.
Cheers
John
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Jo, you should rename each version as you edit it eg galatea blue background.jpeg or galatea black backround.jpeg.
When you close the photo you are editing and the programme asks "save changes" never click yes. You want to save all your originals.
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Which ones are which? After a while, and once I'd got my glasses on........
Anthony - You might just qualify for a judging position. Drop Brian a note. ;D ;D ;D
johnw
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Thanks Mark, interesting about not clicking 'save changes', I hadn't thought that I would change the original for good. I need to spend more time at this, good job its raining.
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Here is 'd'Or'
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:)
First Snowdrop day at Anglesey Abbey (Cambridgeshire/Suffolk border) today. Very bright, sunny, and perishing cold. The snowdrops are at least a fortnight late, so only the earlies to be seen in The Ditch. Pic attached; next post shows some drops seen.
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Even the Anglesey aconites were tightly rolled up.
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Very nice pics, Steve. Unfortunately a couple of the names are wrong. 'Oliver Wyatt's Green' and 'Washfield Colesbourne' should both have virtually solid green inners, not apical green marks.
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Mmmm. Marjery Fish looks very dishy. 8)
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Whoops! Sorry Martin, I may have got my notes transposed lying in a muddy ditch. I think Gerard Parker may be there somewhere. I'll check my log.
I should have mentioned that the Anglesey Abbey shop has a good range of drops for sale at reasonable prices, e.g. around the £8-£10-£12 mark for the likes of Kite and Lodestar. I picked up a Sibbertoft Magnet to cover a winter loss. The only pricey one was rizehensis Baytop at £25.
Mark Smyth gets an "assist" on the improved pics. Getting there...
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Steve,
It certainly was a lovely day here in Cambridgeshire if not a little chilly. I envy you going along to Anglesey. I believe that they had some cut flowers or pots of snowdrops inside for those who were unable to get into the 'ditch'. Is that right? Radio Cambridgeshire did a piece on Anglesey Abbey on Monday explaining how the collection came into being. Very interesting.
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Angelsey probably got it wrong. 'Comet' doesnt look big enough.
'Oliver Wyatts Green-tip'
http://www.snowdropinfo.com/oliver-wyatts-greentip.html (http://www.snowdropinfo.com/oliver-wyatts-greentip.html)
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Steve,
It certainly was a lovely day here in Cambridgeshire if not a little chilly. I envy you going along to Anglesey. I believe that they had some cut flowers or pots of snowdrops inside for those who were unable to get into the 'ditch'. Is that right? Radio Cambridgeshire did a piece on Anglesey Abbey on Monday explaining how the collection came into being. Very interesting.
David
Yes, Michael Broadhurst was manning a small display stand. By the by, I checked my camera log and no mistakes, so one or two of the pics were of mislabelled pots. I am told that Anglesey was featured tonight on Anglia TV.
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Angelsey probably got it wrong. 'Comet' doesnt look big enough.
'Oliver Wyatts Green-tip'
http://www.snowdropinfo.com/oliver-wyatts-greentip.html (http://www.snowdropinfo.com/oliver-wyatts-greentip.html)
Yes, I assumed they'd mis-labelled or mis-named. I also thought 'Comet' didn't look quite right - mark rather too dark, outer petals and ovary not quite the right shape, but I'm going by memory so didn't say anything.
Mark, 'Oliver Wyatt's Green' and 'Oliver Wyatt's Green Tip' aren't the same thing. My father was given 'Oliver Wyatt's Green' by Oliver Wyatt and named it for him. It's a plicatus form with a solid green inner mark.
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OK. I wasnt aware there were two different plants.
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OK. I wasnt aware there were two different plants.
'Oliver Wyatt's Green' is in Matt's book, with a photo and a write-up explaining the background, on page 149. It's a very long-lived, reliable snowdrop and a useful seed parent.
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Re Galanthus 'Dionysius' and the green tips shown in earlier photograph: My apologies but I cannot check on the rest of the clump at present to see if there are others with green tips. I will do so as soon as possible and report back. Apologies to those who e-mailed me on the same subject that I haven't replied but my home telephone line is out at present and my work (a primary school) internet connection operates under very strict restrictions and I don't want to go to the bother of changing the protocols just for a short period as I would have to change them back again afterwards and this would be a nuisance.
There is always the possibility that I made a mix-up when bringing the snowdrops from the garden into the house to photograph though I did take great care, writing the name on a slip of paper, piercing it and pushing the stem of each snowdrop into its own named paper slip. But, there's many a slip twixt cup and lip!
I have read over the snowdrop book and see no reference to any virescent forms of 'Dionysius' but did notice a note on a virescent 'Ophelia' which did not reappear in subsequent years. I also noted a remark on variations arising in some of these double snowdrops which seemed to be attributed to their being pot-grown; the insinuation being that pot-grown plants, because of their cultivation method, were prone to variation not found when they were grown in open ground.
And if I have a virescent 'Dionysius' I am going to twin scale it, put it for sale on e-bay and retire immediately from teaching - wouldn't that be great!
My compliments to Jo on her photographic trials and I think the black background does seem to suit the snowdrops very well. Of course, it might not suit plants of another colour and so might not be well applied to photographing crocus or daffodils, for example.
Re the question on an identity for my mysterious 'Barbara's Double' for which I asked for identification. Mark's suggestion that it might be 'Ding Dong' is beginning to sound (forgive the pun) very feasible as I purchased 'Barbara's Double' and 'Ding Dong' at the same time and from the same supplier and they may have come with their labels mixed or I could have mixed the label on planting - but, I would never do such a terrible thing!!!
Steve, Many thanks for your report on Anglesey Abbey. Great so see the display and the prices were very good. Oh, to be near the sources of all these snowdrops!
Paddy
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Rob - The photos are crystal clear. Thanks for posting them. Grumpy is a treat; so that's what I look like in the morning.
Nice rhizehensis.
Keep the photos coming.
johnw
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Not seen rizehensis with four outers. Is it stable?
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Your camera takes good photos, Rob.
Did anyone buy Kath's late elwesii this year? well ... it's not late because it's flowering now and it's lovely. The inner mark is two very small marks like this / \
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Great Pictures Rob - no need to apologise for the quality, there is absolutely nothing wrong with them.
If you have an art package (Paint Shop Pro, Photoshop, etc) you can then cut out the bit of the photo you like the best too. 8)
Thanks for sharing them with us and I look forward to the next ones. :)
Cheers
John
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Just found a snowdrop in the garden that I didn't know I had. According to the label I chipped it in 2001, so it's taken a long time to get back up to flowering. Galanthus 'Robert Berkeley'. Anyone heard of it? I can't remember where I might have got it. A nice scented single-marked nivalis type, quite small, probably a hybrid with plicatus.
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I havent heard of it, Martin.
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Did anyone buy Kath's late elwesii this year? well ... it's not late because it's flowering now and it's lovely. The inner mark is two very small marks like this / \
Is that from Kath Dryden Mark?
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Yes Brian it was Kath Dryden. I bought them from the bulb sale or her list. I cant remember which
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Will look out for it Mark.
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Rob, very well done those are nice pictures. What kind of camera do you have?
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Here is a diminutive little plant just acquired Gal gracilis Vic Horton. The whole thing is less than 3 inches high. Placed in a trough so I can see it
Also a late flowering reg olgae perhaps it's because it was only planted out last year
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I grew 'Vic' when I first got in to snowdrops but it's not in the garden anymore. Hopefully there will be some at the Gala
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No Rob it was just bought as a species. I agree it is quite elegant perhaps I should give a name - but are there any names left ??? ;D ;)
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Here are some lovlies from my garden today.
elwesii 'Elmley Lovette' - This was the unknown one earlier this week.
elwesii 'Michael Meyer's Green Tipped' - where's the green tip?
'Green Pip'
elwesii 'Heimalis' - the original heimalis
plicatus 'Maidwell C'
rizehensis - not warm enough for them to open today
WP8 - West Porlock No. 8
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Last one for today and another missing label. This was new to me last year possibly from Colesbourne. Anyone recognise it? The leaves are very glaucous, applanate and almost flat to the ground. It's very short also with big flowers with an obvious tip to the thick petals. Much the same as 'Anne of Geirstein' the petals cant be forced open. The height to the top of the tallest spathe is 4 inches 10cm.
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Just found a snowdrop in the garden that I didn't know I had.Galanthus 'Robert Berkeley'. Anyone heard of it?
I had an email suggesting this might be from The Snowdrop Company, which it is. Mystery solved. An "Imperati" type.
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A spectacular group of photos Mark. All new to me.
johnw
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Thanks John.
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Nice to see all those lovely snowdrops. I am still resisting buying named varieties but yesterday found myself in the garden centre to buy grit and lifting up the skirts of elwessiis to check the green markings. I did buy 2 pots with three bulbs in each. They do not look as vigorous as the ones I have already but they may improve once planted out. The only snowdrops I have in flower just now are the Galanthus reginae-olgae (formerly corcyrensis) which have been flowering since mid November. Ian says his is late flowering but I don't know how to describe my one. I think there will still be flowers for two to three weeks yet.
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I wonder if you would get three figures on EBay for Galanthus 'Lost Label' , or perhaps Galanthus 'Ecriteau Perdus'?
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thanks David, well my camera is a few years old now, nothing special, its not easy to take pictures with it either either ;D
its a fujifilm fine pix, nothing special but gets the job done ;)
rob
Hi Rob
my camera is a fuji finepix too ;D
John
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Mark,
An excellent set of photographs; particularly nice to see snowdrops in sunshine, something which is in very short supply down south here. I wonder if you have had a mix-up with the one labelled "G. elwesii hiemalis". The outer petals seems very long and slim and not at all like the more substantial and plump outer petal of G. elwesii snowdrops.
Rob, I used a Fuji Finepix for several years and found it an excellent camera for close-up work - as illustrated.
Following up on questions about G. 'Dionysus' (I think I have the spelling correct now as I noticed that the snowdrop book does not spell it as I have done, with an "i" - Dionysius). I checked on this clump yesterday fternoon and found that most of the snowdrops have green markings on the outer petals and these are more pronounced in the more developed flowers, those more open. I couldn't find a photograph of this clump from last year and can't say if this is a consistent feature but can now watch out for it in coming years.
Here is the photograph I posted the other day and I must point out that this one has the best markings of the group. It was the one most open and developed when I picked it and that, perhaps, explains why the markings are so clear.
Wol Staines was speaking in Cork last evening - where I met Ashley, who posts on the forum - and I purchased G. 'Three Ships', G. 'David Baker' and G. 'Primrose Warburg'. I did have a bulb of 'Primrose Warburg' in the garden from an exchange with a forum member last year but a flowering bulb with two good offsets for €20 seemed too good a price to let pass.
Paddy
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Looking at my potted Dionysus threw up a green tipped specimen. Not as good as yours Paddy.
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The markings are also very big compared to what I have seen.
Paddy, the elwesii 'Heimalis' Hiemalis is correct and was bought before Heimalis Hiemalis Group was formed. 'Pyramid' also has long narrow petals
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Mark,
You have a nice snowdrop then. It struck me as unusually slim for G. elwesii. I particularly like the snowdrops with long outer petals; more elegant, I think.
Jo, it seems this outer marking on G. 'Dionysus' is not as unusual as imagined then. Comparing both of our photographs, we certainly seem to have the same plant, same overall shape, very similar markings, same slight upturn on the outer petals etc. So, it seems we will not be making our fortunes from e-bay sales on this one!
Paddy
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Shame Paddy :-\ I think the green outer causes the pinching of the petal. The flower in the picture had different shaped markings on each of its 3 inner petals, on one it was only a stripe. I think Dionysus must a very variable creature.
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Here is the "late" elwesii from Kath Dryden.
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Here are some more photos of the little Galanthus I have that has a label missing. It could have come from the Snowdrop Company, North Green or Colesbourne. Its height in 10cm. Both leaves show slight plication and are only 6mm wide
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Here are two clumps of snowdrops growing in the garden. The clump on the left could be 'Colossus', but what is the clump on the right?
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Rob, 'Colossus' looks about right from that distance. The right hand snowdrop is elwesii '?'
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Here is a wider shot. It shows some autumn drops on the right, and possibly 'James Backhouse' in the foreground. There can't be many elwesii with such broad leaves as the clump I'm trying to identify.
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Here is the "late" elwesii from Kath Dryden.
Thats a beautiful elwesii Mark, if its 'late' why is it flowering now ???
Rob, the elwesii ?, coming through by Colossus looks about the same leaf width as some of mine. Is that Rhubarb accompanying your snowdrops ???
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Precisely. I'll phone her tomorrow to find out more
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Is that Rhubarb accompanying your snowdrops ???
Well spotted.
hmmmm, rhubarb crumble.....
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I like rhubarb & custard. There should be another piece where it looks like bare soil. I might put an upturned bucket on the stalks that are showing to try and force it.
Getting back to the elwesii can anyone list the top half dozen cultivars with that shape leaf, and I'll see if the names ring any bells.
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Rob many elwesii cultivars have wide grey leaves
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Guilty as charged.
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someone told me today he bought galanthus 'Abbott' and elwesii 'Vivaldi'.
from a retired nurseryman.
I never heard of those and can`t find them in the book.
Does anyone know these two guys?or could the man have named those himself?
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One just coming into bloom is G. nivalis 'Appleby', a tiny thing. Paddy mentioned he had not heard of it before and indeed it is not in the Monograph either. Can anyone tell me something of its history? The source was Potterton & Martin 3/96.
johnw
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John it's a spikey. G. nivalis 'Appleby Spikey'
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John it's a spikey. G. nivalis 'Appleby Spikey'
Mark - This one is not a spikey and it is pretty small and not open yet but close. Found it in an old P&M catalogue and at this site http://www.galanthus-online.de/seiten/kultivare-a-d/applybay.html (http://www.galanthus-online.de/seiten/kultivare-a-d/applybay.html)
I see there is also an Appleby 1 but have found no description yet.
johnw
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Hi, John, the photo on that site, to which a number of Forumists have contributed, is by Hagen Engelmann, so PMs to him and to Rob Potterton should get you some info, if those two are not reading this..... ::)
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Some of my species in flower today
Galanthus elwesii
Galanthus plicatus ssp plicatus two pictures
Galanthus reginae olgae ssp vernalis
Galanthus gracilis
the first four are my own seed and the gracilis a gift
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Tony, your seedlings are beautiful, you must be well pleased ;D ;D
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Superb gracilis, Tony. Love the contrast between the very dark green marks and the paler ovary. 8)
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My motley collection of named ones out at the moment
Galanthus atkinsii
Galanthus Brian Mathew
Galnthus Freds Giant
Galanthus Helen Tomlinson
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Tony - Exciting photos and collection. Your elwesii seedling is a corker.
johnw
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Martin as I said the gracilis was a present and this is the first time I have seen it in flower
John thank you
I have quite a number more to open and will photgraph them.
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Tony, How great to have grown them on from seed. Like John, I am very taken by the G. elwesii, your first photograph. There is an odd kind of turn out on the inner petals, very pleasing. You remind me that my very first different snowdrop, in other words it wasn't G. nivalis, was G. caucasicus grown from seed from the Irish Garden Plant Society seed exchange and because I grew it from seed it is one I really treasure and look forward to each year. This has since bulked up well and I have a few good patches around the garden.
Your snowdrops are also in excellent condition, pot and glasshouse/under cover cultivation I imagine. They are a stark contrast to my poor mud-splattered ones in the garden. But then, I would kill them if I attempted to grow them in pots.
Good show, Paddy
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Paddy you are correct they are all in pots in a frame.
I did some tyding up in the garden today and there are loose labels everywhere,blackbirds!! If I put them in the garden their origin would be lost in days
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Hi Tony, a very fine collection looking quite pristine! Hope to see mine out in the garden very soon.
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Tony great pictures and plants.Love the gracilis
Here is my Colesbourne Colossus today clumping up nicely. Sorry about the mesh behind it's to stop the B----y cat digging up the bulbs. How I wish she would visit the neighbours after all doesn't she know they are not into plants ??? I suppose she is getting old :(
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I will second the comments about Tony's snowdrops. I especially like your elwesii and the gracilis is beautiful. I have some in the garden and some in a frame but they are a week or two off opening.
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John it's a spikey. G. nivalis 'Appleby Spikey'
Mark - This one is not a spikey and it is pretty small and not open yet but close. Found it in an old P&M catalogue and at this site http://www.galanthus-online.de/seiten/kultivare-a-d/applybay.html (http://www.galanthus-online.de/seiten/kultivare-a-d/applybay.html)
I see there is also an Appleby 1 but have found no description yet.
johnw
The Galanthus Appleby stable name indicates it was raised/selected and named from the garden of the late Hector Harrison who lived in the village of Appleby, North Lincolnshire not far from Scunthorpe. Hector was a quiet, modest unassuming gentleman with a midas touch for snowdrops and Diascia. Our nursery did distribute a number of Hectors snowdrops in the 1990's and we are delighted to read that some are persisting.
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Whilst we were out walking this afternoon we saw our first snowdrops out in the grounds of the local 'big house'. A few patches in sheltered sunny sites.
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Rob, I know you have drainage problems in your soil, which is why you are growing in the fish boxes, but in your photos the soil does look really sodden.....I know the weather has been awful but I wonder if at least some of your health problems with the snowies is that they are just not getting fierce enough drainage ? If that is the case, it could well be that is a reason for them to be suffering.
I know snowies do grow in some damp areas in the wild, but usually where, even if there is water about, there is good drainage and aeration.... vital for good healthy plants and roots.
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Isn't Essex the driest part of the UK? Certainly, Kelvedon, not far from my sister, is recorded as having 16" average annual rainfall (if my memory serves me correct?). I think this is the lowest anywhere in the UK?
Here is the unknown in my greenhouse. Looks like bog-standard woronowii. I include fosteri for comparison, and 'Lapwing' was open outside today. Nothing else open outside except elwesii 'Hiemalis' and 'John Gray'. My rizehensis is out but failed to open up. It's a nice clump which I got from Lyn Bezzant.
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Nice, Anthony. I particularly like 'Lapwing' with very angular markings.
Paddy
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Anthony, your unknown seems to have VERY dark green foliage.... is that a true colour or is it just showing as dark in the photo.... if it truly that dark it is somewhat distinctive, isn't it? Lovely dark leaves, whatever!!
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I lost the contrast with the flower colours. Here's another pic.
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Nice. So the leaves are perhaps not quite so dark as in the first photo? Still a good contrast with the markings though. I have G. woroniwii somewhere... if it's dry tomorrow I'll go see if it's up and about to compare..
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It does look like woronowii and well ahead of mine.
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Anthony,
G. woronowii is in flower here and the foliage in your photographs is certainly very similar as is the flower.
Paddy
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This one ended up in the greenhouse as I thought it was maybe fosteri as I knew I had two pots of it. I posted a pic of the leaves earlier. Now where is the other pot? BTW my woronowii in the garden is just above soil level.
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Sunshine down South! Snowdrops opening at last!
Has anyone got enough of either Midge or Nutts Early to consider a swap? Please PM me if poss. Thanks,
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Possibly 'Nutt's Early' and slightly maybe 'Midge.
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Another sort of flowering I suppose, but is that Biggles I espy in the RHS halls on p112 of The Garden for February?
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I put forward this picture of a snowdrop I grow in case anybody recognises it and can help me to give it a name. It came from the garden of a friend in County Wexford, Ireland. where it grows in large quantities around the large garden, so if it is a named variety it must be an old one. It is a modest-sized plicatus and flowers early in the new year (a bit later than usual this year). It is a good doer, bulks up rapidly and can hang on in tough conditions where weaker snowdrops would perish.
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Is it short? Someone over here grows something similar but it doesnt have a name. The ovary doesnt match.
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Another sort of flowering I suppose, but is that Biggles I espy in the RHS halls on p112 of The Garden for February?
Brian
Bloody good eyesight. Do you eat carrots and were you a fighter pilot? And can you see what I'm holding in the photo? I mean, which varieties?
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Some G. elwesii from today - might be nothing special - but I like them ;)
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Hans
how tall are your elwesii - they look quite small.
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Is it short? Someone over here grows something similar but it doesnt have a name. The ovary doesnt match.
It is quite short for a plicatus. Your unnamed snowdrop has a wider sinus than mine also, but I agree they are quite similar.
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Every time I read someone refering to their snowdrop as nothing special I smile to myself because there is a snowdrop called 'Nothing Special'
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Another sort of flowering I suppose, but is that Biggles I espy in the RHS halls on p112 of The Garden for February?
Brian
Bloody good eyesight. Do you eat carrots and were you a fighter pilot? And can you see what I'm holding in the photo? I mean, which varieties?
C'mon Steve I'm not that good! Mind you I do get annoyed if I can't read the bottom line at the opticians!
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@Art - the second one is really small - I doubt it reaches 7cm in height. The other two are a bit larger -about 13 - 15 cm - still small compared with the rest.
@mark ;D - do you have a pic?
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Rob what size are your fish boxes and how many Galanthus are in each? A snowdrop person who watches the forum is also concerned about 1. drainage 2. close proximity of the snowdrops to each other.
Is there any room in your garden to make a raised bed? Even a small one? The smaller bed in the photo, on the left, is about 2.5m x 1.8m x c50cm tapering to a point. I just went out to check and have now changed the measurements
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Mark,
Typically, how close do you plant snowdrops next to each other? Are they in pots (aquatic pots) or planted in the open ground? Perhaps if there was a recommendation or guide for planting distances then at least Rob and others could see if they are within this.
The weather wasn't too good for taking photographs over the weekend but I did manage to capture 'Trumps' as it started to open. It still has a little way to go but hopefully there should be a copy of the photograph below showing its progress so far.
David
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I'm not an expert at saying what distance one should be from the other but in my beds .... I'll go out again ..
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Around the edge of my big bed they are 50cm apart. A second row is between those at the edge but set back so there is almost a zig zag effect. They are roughly 30cm away from the nearest group. These were not measured out initially and only set out. More snowdrops are roughly arms length in from the edge. The small bed has them spaced out like bedding plants. Yes they are in lattice pots but this year they are being released.
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Oh, Mark, you're making me smile with the idea of you going out in the dark to measure between your plants! Can the neighbours see you? At least when I go out in the dark to look at the temperature, it's round the back where no-one sees!
When you think of daft things we gardeners do.... rushing out to put fleece or other covers on plants when bad frost is due.... measuring plants... and the distances between them, squinting at thermometers by torchlight.... it's a wonder we're not all arrested! I wonder of our neighbours think we are diligent dedicated growers, or just barking mad? ::)
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One neighbour stopped to watch me. I didnt see her and she said "what the %^&* are you doing with a tape measure in the dark!!"
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Alan someone has suggested 'Henham No1' for your snowdrop
http://www.judyssnowdrops.co.uk/Plant_Profiles/plicatus/henham/henham.htm (http://www.judyssnowdrops.co.uk/Plant_Profiles/plicatus/henham/henham.htm)
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Around the edge of my big bed they are 50cm apart. A second row is between those at the edge but set back so there is almost a zig zag effect. They are roughly 30cm away from the nearest group. These were not measured out initially and only set out. More snowdrops are roughly arms length in from the edge. The small bed has them spaced out like bedding plants. Yes they are in lattice pots but this year they are being released.
Thanks Mark. I guess being in pots they don't tend to wonder off too far and ultimately close up the gaps so the spacing can be maintained. The downside I suppose is that you have to divide more often to ease congestion. Anyway, that should help with offering a guide as to distances apart to plant.
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In between each group of Galanthus is a cultivar of Ranunculus ficaria but cats have made a complete mess of them. I need to spray them and start again.
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The weather wasn't too good for taking photographs over the weekend but I did manage to capture 'Trumps' as it started to open. It still has a little way to go but hopefully there should be a copy of the photograph below showing its progress so far.
David
Ooooh that's nice. 8) Must look out for it. I didn't realise how neat it was.
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If you see this remove it and bin it. This is probably Staganospora at work. I noticed this today and drenched the bulbs
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I'm thinking that everybody elses' snowies are way ahead of ours and I read this......
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090126/tuk-finally-warm-enough-for-snowdrops-6323e80.html ....... ::)
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Mine have been taking advantage of the recent warm spells but 10 miles up the road they are late. Our group has a snowdrop day every other year and I can see us moving it forward in coming years. For anyone interested the next will/should be the third Saturday in Feb 2010
Paddy, here's another example of an elwesii with long narrow flowers
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Mark,
That's a topper, just love the long outer petals. Must look great in a clump. Well photographed also, very clear.
Hard to judge from Judy's photograph if Alan's snowdrop is 'Henman No1' as it doesn't show the inner mark well. Now, I am not at all familiar with 'Henman No 1' to be honest.
David, It certainly is 'Trumps', a lovely flower.
Paddy
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Alan someone has suggested 'Henham No1' for your snowdrop
The flower does look very similar to 'Henham No. 1' which is flowering here now, later than usual thanks to the long freezing spell. But 'Henham No. 1' has only been on sale via North Green since 2001 so if there are a lot of well-established large clumps all around the garden in Ireland where Alan's bulbs came from, is it likely they could have come from North Green and increased that fast in just eight years max? Also, Alan says they're very strong growing, and I don't find H. no. 1 to be particularly strong or fast growing.
A lot of my early snowdrops are very late this year, and some of the later ones are coming up with flower buds very low to the ground, as has been mentioned here before. I think it's just the wierd weather patterns.
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Mark,
David, It certainly is 'Trumps', a lovely flower.
Paddy
Paddy, it certainly is a lovely flower and the first time I have seen it in its prime. When I purchased it the flower had gone over. I've waited a whole year but it has been worth it. Hopefully the temperatures will lower a bit so that it lasts for a while.
David
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Paddy here's the group. It's a crap photo so I'll replace it in a few days when they fully open
Martin, Here's the inside of 'Pat Mason'
and lastly for today 'Ecusson d'Or' is improving by the day. It's much better seen with the eye.
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@Art - the second one is really small - I doubt it reaches 7cm in height. The other two are a bit larger -about 13 - 15 cm - still small compared with the rest.
@mark ;D - do you have a pic?
Hans
Thanks for info I have a pot of snowdrops that I thought were elwesii, and are as small, but now I am thinking they could be gracilis. I always thought of elwesii as being a large snowdrop.
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Hans
Thanks for info I have a pot of snowdrops that I thought were elwesii, and are as small, but now I am thinking they could be gracilis. I always thought of elwesii as being a large snowdrop.
Elwesii can be quite small with narrow leaves, and gracilis can be quite big with wide leaves. The acid test is the vernation of the leaves - convolute leaves = elwesii and applanate (flat against each other) = gracilis.
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Mark,
The photograph certainly proves it - that elwesii makes a lovely clump, a good garden plant as one might say.
I was only today corresponding about G. 'Pat Mason'. It has very good markings, very nice.
'Ecusson d'Or' - your photograph shows it differently to many previously viewed photographs which seemed to concentrate on the opened flower taken from a low angle to show the shape with the inner segments spread. A nice looking snowdrop.
Paddy
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That mark on 'Pat Mason' is one that even I should be able to pick out! She's very smart.
I too thought that G. elwesii tended to be bigger... or at least taller types.
That is the nicest pic I've seen of the 'Ecusson d'Or' .....do you mean, Mark, that in real life our eye "sees" the yellow more strongly than the camera picks up?
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I'm wondering if it was 'Trumps' I saw several years ago on 'Gardener's World' in the garden of the chap who had discovered it. Who's listing it this year?
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Maggi, the camera lies all the time. If, for example, the "white balance" it not set appropriately the colours will not appear correctly.
I took some photographs of Rhododendron 'Christmas Cheer' the other day which showed flowers of the very palest pink. A readjustment of the camera settings - something I should have done first - and I had the correct richer pink.
Our eyes, or our brains' interpretation of what our eyes see, can interpret the various appearances of colour. Strong sunlight will give a different colour cast to dull light, to artificial light etc. Our eyes/brain can understand and correctly interpret this but the camera is a simple instrument and just sees it as it is - as it really is and not how we see it.
Paddy
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'Ecusson d'Or' is looking much better, Mark, although the yellow marks on the outer don't seem terribly bold. Interesting breeding material though and, despite my previous comments about it maybe being a bit over-hyped, I've asked Joe for one so I can try breeding with it. Just hope he's not over-run with people wanting it and quicker off the mark than me.
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Martin you can get pollen from mine.
I hear a yellow 'Trym' or 'Trym' lookalike has been found. I've asked for a photo so I can show everyone.
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Alan someone has suggested 'Henham No1' for your snowdrop
http://www.judyssnowdrops.co.uk/Plant_Profiles/plicatus/henham/henham.htm (http://www.judyssnowdrops.co.uk/Plant_Profiles/plicatus/henham/henham.htm)
Hmmm, flowers and longish ovary are close but the leaves are wrong; mine are narrower and a more glaucous green. I'll try to post a photo showing this when I get the chance. What makes this a good snowdrop (for me at least) is that it would score high marks for being both prolific and hardy.
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I'm wondering if it was 'Trumps' I saw several years ago on 'Gardener's World' in the garden of the chap who had discovered it. Who's listing it this year?
Yes Anthony, you are correct. If I recall this correctly, Matt Bishop discovered it at John Morely's garden and was named following a typographical (is there such a word?) error in an article where Trym was referred to as Trum. The Gardeners' World piece with Joe Swift focused on Matt Bishops collection and included Diggory, Trumps, Primrose Warburg, Amy Doncaster and Blewberry Tart.
I'm not sure if any one is listing it this year. I got mine from Matt Bishop at the Gala last year. I'll have a look through my catalogues and I'll let you know if it is listed.
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I hear a yellow 'Trym' or 'Trym' lookalike has been found. I've asked for a photo so I can show everyone.
That sounds interesting Mark - I hope you manage to get a photograph to share.
Regards
John
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Martin you can get pollen from mine.
That would be very useful if you manage to get pollen from it, Mark.
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Hard to judge from Judy's photograph if Alan's snowdrop is 'Henman No1'
Just to set the record straight, the website is called 'Judy's Snowdrops' in memory of the owner's labrador, Judy. The owner of the website is actually Janet. It's an easy mistake to make if you don't know and you haven't read the homepage where Janet explains. A lovely snowdrop website well worth a thorough look, and worth giving the url here again for anyone who hasn't yet visited:
http://www.judyssnowdrops.co.uk
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The sun nearly came through this morning so I took a pic of G. n. Sandersii group. Terrible photo and inners not showing.
Later on as it warmed up I thought I'd try for a better pic. Well this is fun, its having a funny season :D
The two flowers which have started to open have 4/5 outer petals. They were normal last year as far as I recall :)
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Yes, not particularly pretty though. It does have good colour and is quite vigourous. The friend who gave me it has lots of big clumps in her garden. I also have a few from a SW nursery which are much weaker growers. I hope by having 2 sources that they may make little seedlings together ::) ::)
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Rob, what about semi permanent raised beds made from railway sleepers or boards?
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Rob, what about semi permanent raised beds made from railway sleepers or boards?
I was just going to suggest the same thing. A few gravel boards nailed together and filled with compost , sitting on top of the soil, wouldn't really be altering the garden as they could be dismantled and removed in an instant if need be.
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If it can work for vegetables it can work for bulbs. A woven plastic membrane in the base would stop soil moving out if it's on concrete.
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i plucked the 2 stamens from the centre, i could see the pollen was ripe.
i have placed the stamens in a vial, sealed and it is now in the freezer. i will be collecting more stamens from other doubles to be used on autumn flowering snowdrops this year. i assume that when i thaw the vials in autumn i will be able to use the pollen as you would when its fresh?
rob
Rob,
All advice about freezing pollen of other plants says to dry the pollen
first before freezing so the grains won't burst. I assume it would be the same with
snowdrops.
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Yes, not particularly pretty though. It does have good colour and is quite vigourous. The friend who gave me it has lots of big clumps in her garden. I also have a few from a SW nursery which are much weaker growers. I hope by having 2 sources that they may make little seedlings together ::) ::)
Hi Jo
I have read on a few occasions that some 'sandersii' are better do'ers that others. It is good to hear that the one from your friend has some strong genes (please think of me if it the time comes to disperse the gene pool further than the South West ;D).
I hope they are a good in the garden bed together!... ;)
John
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Rob - Go to the pharmacist and ask for some empty gelatin capsules. They will usually give you some. Place the pollen and anthers in one, shake to release as much pollen as possible and leave it in the fridge for several days. Then when the pollen has been desiccated by the fridge you can place the capsule in a small tight-fitting jar with some dry paper towel and one of those tiny anti-desiccant packets that come in pills bottles. The packet should go into the fridge with the capsule to be certain it is thoroughly dried out as well. Only then to the freezer. You need not thaw the pollen to use it but be quick to return the capsule to the jar (which is never left unopened to attract moisture). Be careful your hands are dry when handling the capsule as it will collapse with the slightest bit of moisture, and that includes rain - never easy to avoid but beware.
Probably no need to put the capsule in the freezer for the first few weeks if you are using it constantly. Back to the fridge between uses and when finished to the freezer.
I get huge capsules from the vet, the ones used for horses, for rhododendron pollen.
Wishing you luck hybridizing.
johnw
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I've been collecting, freezing and using snowdrop pollen for years and have found that if I tap it into an empty matchbox from the flower when it's dry enough to fall freely from the anthers, then freeze, it's okay. Maybe when it's dry enough to run freely from the anthers, it's dry enough for the freezer.
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Just had an afternoon stroll round Wandlebury where the Plicatus and Aconites are beginning to open in the walled area of the ring. I spotted two small yellows and also took a photo of a mole hill amongst the Plicatus showing the chalky soil.
John(M)
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Thank you JohnW and Martin for the helpful words. I will try it out this year too. Now the season could come (will come in 2-3weeks)
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ALL - My procedure is based on my rhododendron pollen work only. I don't think anyone will go wrong using the method I described.
If Martin's method with Galanthus pollen works for him then it works and is much simpler. So I say go for the easier method.
Now if some pollen hasn't not come off the anthers and you want every last grain to be viable then a few days in the fridge first might be a safe manoever. Martin - what do you think? Or, simply wait a little longer to collect.
johnw
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Diane - The Galanthus pollen does seem to be a lot drier when ripe than rhododendron pollen which is mighty stringy and sticky. I would make perfect sense that such early bloomers as Galanthus would have evolved pollen that takes the usual freezing at bloom time without rupturing.
john
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Now if some pollen hasn't come off the anthers and you want every last grain to be viable then a few days in the fridge first might be a safe manoever. Martin - what do you think? Or, simply wait a little longer to collect.
johnw
Yes, John, if the pollen is in severed anthers, I'd give it longer to dry out and fall from the anthers, then a bit longer to dry again in case you've forced it to fall early.
Personally, I've never cut the anthers off. The problem is that the pollen in snowdrops comes out of a hole at the end of the anther, and is not stuck on the outside of a completely dehisced anther as in say narcissus or lily. So if you cut the anther off before the pollen is ripe, it will often not come out the anther. I find it best to keep testing the flower by tapping until eventually the pollen drops naturally into the matchbox. So you then know it's fully ripe and you get it all out.
I think you're probably right about early flowering plants like galanthus developing pollen that can take freezing without damage, even when not ripe and dry but still in the anther - the pollen is highly likely to get frozen during winter while still in the anther - so galanthus pollen may well be less problematic than later flowers. I've certainly never had any problem with freezing as soon as the pollen's dry enough to drop from tapping the flower.
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martin does this apply to double flowered galanthus as well?
that is, will the pollen drop freely without having to remove the anther? seeing as they are often malformed, or partly petaloid (not allways complete in structure).
rob
Good point, Rob. I've never tried collecting pollen from a double as I've never been terribly keen on them and haven't bothered trying to breed from them. I suppose in that case you may well have to cut out the anthers, in which case yes I'd give them plenty of time to dry to get the maximum pollen out as John suggests.
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Just had an afternoon stroll round Candelabra where the Placates and Aconites are beginning to open in the walled area of the ring. I spotted two small yellows and also took a photo of a mole hill amongst the Placates showing the chalky soil.
John(M)
John, I admit that I don't know more about snowdrops than the flowers are mostly white and that they come out of the soil
with their buds upright.
But did you take this picture in the Southern Hem. ?? ??? ;) 8)
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I don't know whether to be glad or sad. Just found my cream-flowered nivalis flowering again in the garden six years after I chipped it. So, glad it's still alive, but sad that after six years only three of the four chipped bulbils have survived, only one is (just!) big enough to produce a little half-size flower and the other two are still tiny.
When I found it in a nivalis patch in a friend's garden near here six years ago, I was so hopeful that it would be a strong grower. Chipped it for safety's sake, even though it was a very small bulb, and six years later I'm barely ahead of where I was six years ago! I used its pollen on other snowdrops six years ago but no sign of any cream seedlings yet. Will try that again this year with the few grains of pollen I'm getting from the flower so far.
Will try to find time to post a pic when it's fully open, to show the colour, but bulking it up and passing its genes onto seedlings looks like being a long slow process. When I found it, it was very small, so never going to be a showy plant. I just hope I can get the colouring to appear in some stronger seedlings eventually.
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you may well have to cut out the anthers, in which case yes I'd give them plenty of time to dry to get the maximum pollen out as John suggests.
Martin - Another good point, then the anthers would be the culprit. If they were froze immediately in the freezer when you removed the capsule from the freezer to use the pollen the anthers would thaw immediately and cause moisture in the capsule which could wet the pollen and then potentially ruin the batch upon re-freezing or fridge storage...maybe.
johnw
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Morning Martin, most exciting what and that you tell about a galanthus in creamflower. I also have such a plant and some other galanthophile told me about theirs. It`s a good content for a new topic.
And I`m sure Maggi would replace the pictures of the cream for us?
I often meant I see cream only in wishes/thoughts.
look here please
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2790.msg64957#msg64957
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Martin is there a way to recognise when the stigma is receptive?
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you may well have to cut out the anthers, in which case yes I'd give them plenty of time to dry to get the maximum pollen out as John suggests.
Martin - Another good point, then the anthers would be the culprit. If they were froze immediately in the freezer when you removed the capsule from the freezer to use the pollen the anthers would thaw immediately and cause moisture in the capsule which could wet the pollen and then potentially ruin the batch upon re-freezing or fridge storage...maybe.
johnw
I was assuming that Rob shakes the anthers around in a container when dry to make the pollen fall out, then removes the anthers. I wouldn't leave the anthers in with the pollen for the reason you mention - or try to freeze anthers containing pollen.
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Martin is there a way to recognise when the stigma is receptive?
Not really. It's such a tiny stigma on snowdrops that you can barely see it in any detail even with a jeweller's eyeglass (which is what I use when pollinating). I just start dusting the stigma as soon as the flower opens then go back a couple more times as the flower ages and dust again. You generally find that the pollen doesn't appear to be sticking much when the flower first opens, and when the flower ages after a few days then you can see more pollen adhering. I assume from this that the stigma is not usually very receptive when the flower first opens and becomes more receptive after a few days. But I still pollinate straight away to try to ensure my pollen is the first to get onto the stigma and not the plant's own pollen or some other bee-carried or wind-carried pollen. I don't emasculate flowers as life is too short to be trying to cut out snowdrop anthers (a lot les easy than removing lily anthers, or narcissus) and most snowdrops seem to be have an in-built infertility mechanism that prevents self-pollination.
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Martin
thank you very helpful
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Morning Martin, most exciting what and that you tell about a galanthus in creamflower. I also have such a plant and some other galanthophile told me about theirs. It`s a good content for a new topic.
And I`m sure Maggi would replace the pictures of the cream for us?
I often meant I see cream only in wishes/thoughts.
look here please
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2790.msg64957#msg64957
Hagen' s hint of cream....
[attach=1]
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maggi is hint of cream a actual cultivar? i see the creamy area just below the ovary all the time in various snowdrops...sometimes as a pinkish glow.
I have no idea, Rob, I just re-posted the photo from where it appeared originally.......
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2790.msg64957#msg64957 ...... Hagen will say more if needed..... :D
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Rob the pink glow is usually the anthers/pollen shining through
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Is it a single or a double cream? If it is the former, I think it coud be Galanthus 'Elmlea'?
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Well it has been a lovely day in Devon so I took a few pics.
Arnott, Atkinsii and that other one all being worked by honey bees. Then Fred's Giant and finally my sandersii with extra petals. All three that have opened have four petals.
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Four petalled 'Sandersii'. Wow! :o
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I really don't believe a word of this, Jo.... sunshine, flowers AND bees..... you must be pulling our legs, surely? :o :D
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Most Febs when I'm in southern England I see honey and bumble bees
And now some from my patch
'Atkinsii' Moccas form. I see no difference except height
'Helen Tomlinson' with drizzle drops.
'Maidwell L' - every snowdrop garden needs it
'Ivy Cottage Corporal' showing variation in flower height
'Primrose Warburg' - not very yellow
My unknown with short leaves and plicatus genes is probably 'Pride o the Mill'. See how the leaves show gracilis genes
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Mark showed a picture of a snowdrop called 'Ivy Cottage' but there seems to be a series of other snowdrops, 'Ivy Cottage Something' (e.g. Ivy Cottage Corporal). Does anyone know the origin of these snowdrops?
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I'll email him and ask
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I really don't believe a word of this, Jo.... sunshine, flowers AND bees..... you must be pulling our legs, surely? :o :D
I keep bees Maggi and this morning I thought the worst, they weren't flying and it was warm. So I thumped the hive and there was a satisfying hummmmm. I must have woken them up cos they came out to play this afternoon.
The forecast is dire for the weekend onwards. :'(
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Is it a single or a double cream? If it is the former....
I had exactly the same problem yesterday evening when I was trying to work out what out what to put in my wild mushroom sauce!
John ;D
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Alan I know there is an 'Ivy Cottage Green-tip' formerly 'Ivy Cottage no.10'
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Alan I know there is an 'Ivy Cottage Green-tip' formerly 'Ivy Cottage no.10'
It must be a nice place, this Ivy Cottage, with so many snowdrops of interest!
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Funnily enough I was there last week buying Ivy Cottage Greentips No 10 among other things and I know another forumist was there before me!
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maggi is hint of cream a actual cultivar? i see the creamy area just below the ovary all the time in various snowdrops...sometimes as a pinkish glow.
rob
My cream nivalis is definitely cream, if not pale yellow. Shame it's so small. Couldn't get a photo today as someone took the camera away for the day. Will try tomorrow. It's not opening up much, but at least I can show the colour (if the camera stays at home!)
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I was there also but in August
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Shot just received from a friend in BC who collected these green tipped
nivalis (not a nivalis - corrected) last year outside a local restaurant (with permission).
johnw
nivalis green tipped Dancer small
[attach=1]
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Those aren't just green-tipped, the green mark on the inners is visible at the base whereas a normal nivalis only has a small mark at the tip of the inners.
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Alan I know there is an 'Ivy Cottage Green-tip' formerly 'Ivy Cottage no.10'
And I have been told that 'Ivy Cottage No.2' (the one you posted photographs of) is now called 'Ivy Cottage Corporal' (because of the two 'stripes' on the inners).
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A few from the garden today, Paddy
G. niv. Sandersii Group 280109
Gal. 'Atkinsii' 280109 (1)
Gal. 'Brenda Troyle' 280109
Gal. 'Compton Court' 280109
Gal. 'Compton Court' 280109
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Shot just received from a friend in BC who collected these green tipped nivalis last year outside a local restaurant (with permission).
johnw
Hi John
I think that 'green tipped dancer' is a lovely looking thing. ;D
Cheers
John
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A few more, Paddy
Gal. 'Desdemona' 280109
Gal. 'Fred's Giant' 280109 (1)
Gal. gracilis 'Highdown' 280109 (2)
Gal. gracilis 'Highdown' 280109 (3)
Gal. 'James Backhouse' 280109
Gal. 'James Backhouse' 280109 (2)
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Very nice Paddy - when you say "a few from the garden today" I do hope you mean yesterday! It is still dark here ;)
I have not seen my garden in daylight for ages - fingers crossed I may get a chance to have a look this afternoon, as i am working from home today, and get some pictures if it is sunny.
Cheers
John
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A few more, Paddy
Gal. 'Jaquenetta' 280109 (1)
Gal. 'John Grey' 280109 (1)
Gal. 'Lavinia' 280109 (1)
Gal. 'Lavinia' 280109 (2)
Gal. 'Magnet' 280109
Gal. niv. fl. pl. 280109
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Last few
Gal. 'Ophelia' 280109 (2)
Gal. 'Ophelia' 280109 (3)
Gal. plic. 'Wendy's Gold' 280109
Gal. 'S. Arnott' 280109 (1)
Gal. 'Walrus' 280109
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OK John, I have just spotted your comment and had noticed that you were online at this early hour of the morning. Yes, it is just six in the morning here and the photographs were taken yesterday afternoon. Just not sleeping, having a snack, watching night-time news on the television and posting these photographs.
Paddy
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....finally my sandersii with extra petals. All three that have opened have four petals.
Hi Jo
I have just spotted the picture of your 4 petal sandersii - very nice. I have a couple of 4 petal normal nivalis that came from a friends garden in Hampshire - it is nice to know that this phenomena can happen in the yellows too. 8)
Thanks for showing the picture.
John
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Meine erste Blüte von " Ecusson d`or", bin sehr begeistert von der guten Farbe.
Ich hoffe das Euer PC meine Zeilen übersetzt.
Günter
My first bloom of 'Ecusson d'or' I am very excited about the good color....
I hope that your PC shows the colour in the same way as mine.
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Meine erste Blüte von " Ecusson d`or", bin sehr begeistert von der guten Farbe.
Ich hoffe das Euer PC meine Zeilen übersetzt.
Günter
Thank you Günter for showing us your first flower on Ecusson d'or. Your plant is showing such a good colour of yellow. can I ask, do you grow it in a pot or in the ground?
Kind regards
John
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....finally my sandersii with extra petals. All three that have opened have four petals.
Hi Jo
I have just spotted the picture of your 4 petal sandersii - very nice. I have a couple of 4 petal normal nivalis that came from a friends garden in Hampshire - it is nice to know that this phenomena can happen in the yellows too. 8)
Thanks for showing the picture.
John
Hi John, they were normal last year so I guess they can change from year to year.
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Ecusson'd'or certainly is a pretty thing.
Lovely pictures Paddy. Someone has been working very hard in your garden putting out mulch and dividing out drops into beautiful neat drifts :)
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Thanks for posting some super pictures Paddy, you seem way ahead of us in blooming time.
Günter your Ecusson d'Or looks a beautiful yellow, what a joy ;D
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Meine erste Blüte von " Ecusson d`or", bin sehr begeistert von der guten Farbe.
Ich hoffe das Euer PC meine Zeilen übersetzt.
Günter
Thank you Günter for showing us your first flower on Ecusson d'or. Your plant is showing such a good colour of yellow. can I ask, do you grow it in a pot or in the ground?
Kind regards
John
im ersten Jahr lasse ich sie im Topf und halte sie getrennt von den anderen Schneeglöckchen. Danach kommen sie in die Erde
Lg
Günter
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im ersten Jahr lasse ich sie im Topf und halte sie getrennt von den anderen Schneeglöckchen. Danach kommen sie in die Erde
Lg
Günter
Transl.: The first year I keep it in a pot and separated from the others. After that it will be planted outside (in the soil).
Regards
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Many thanks Gerd.
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Günter
Sie sind sehr mutig sein, um Risiken ausgesetzt sind, wie eine wunderbare Schneeglöckchen in der Erde
You are very brave to risk such a wonderful snowdrop in the earth.
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Very nice Paddy. My resolve weakens with (almost) every picture ;)
So far however my snowdrop ambitions are pitiably limited ;D: to find something with good form and a strong, extensive green inner that's also vigorous in my damp alluvial soil.
Do you grow straight elwesii and if so how does it perform under your conditions?
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Ashley,
My experience with G. elwesii - the straight species - has been very poor. I have, on a few occasions, purchases pots of them in garden centres at the end of the season when they were being sold off cheaply and planted them out but found they dwindled very quickly after the first year. The G.elwesii cultivars/hybrids have the benefit of what is generally referred to as 'hybrid vigour' and these have always done much better. G. elwesii purchased in garden centres are also very variable, a great selection of markings etc and while some can seem interesting they do not have the vigour to do well in the garden. I don't bother with them any more.
Jo, yes, I split a few clumps last year so as to make bigger spreads of snowdrops which give, I believe, a far better appearance than the small spot plantings of many cultivars. I intend to continue this at the end of this season to create more drifts which I prefer and which give a better effect in the garden.
Brian, the snowdrops made great strides when the harsh conditions which prevailed over Christmas and early January eased. The trouble with them now is that many are very dirty from rain splashing.
Gunter, great to see you posting and your G. 'Eccuson d'Or' looks very well, certainly the best yellow I recall being posted.
Apologies to Maggi for not posting the names of the snowdrops in a list before the pictures - I did mean to come back to that as I posted the photographs around 6 a.m. this morning.
Paddy
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Paddy - I have just been in the garden. I would say your drops are at least 2 weeks ahead of mine. :-\ They look so happy in your garden and all seem to be increasing at a rate of knots! I remember you posting a couple of years ago about how many S Arnotts you had because you had counted them. Looking at the photographs now I think they are in numbers too great to count! 8)
I always think Wendys Gold looks lovely.
John
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Paddy, thank you for the firework of Snowdropics. You have a good time now. Our time will come in 3-4 weeks.
Günter, ein Topfoto von einem Spitzenschneeglöckchen!!! Hier blühen gerademan erste Elwesen.
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Hi to everyone and thanks for the super pictures. I find that the leaves of snowdrops most interesting and this is one thing which is missing from the books. The first thing I notice is the leaf shape and if you look close you can see espciall hybrids betwee G. nivalis and G. plicatus the hybrids have a fold on the back of the leaf as shown in the pictures I now post along with different G. plicatus. I have also observed that Hybid plants plicatus x nivalis will often have two flower spikes as picture. cheers Ian the Christie kind
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Ian, some plicatus produce twin scapes and I suppose pass the genes to the hybrid. Most of my plicatus 'Wendy's Gold' produce twin scapes.
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Alan - You're right, what a world of detail in a flower. I went back to her original email from last year to check if it was a nivalis she found and she said it was. She sent me a few and the only one that bloomed had no exterior markings (might have been a regular one dug with the group). I'll check at noon if the others have buds. Also will send her a note to keep the photos coming especially when they are full open. It will be interesting to see how they all compare.
johnw
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Paddy, thank you, no problem to help, I had time today.
Cold wet and dark here today so the flowers are very welcome.
The green Dancer is distinctive.......very cute.
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Alan - You're right, what a world of detail in a flower. I went back to her original email from last year to check if it was a nivalis she found and she said it was. She sent me a few and the only one that bloomed had no exterior markings (might have been a regular one dug with the group). I'll check at noon if the others have buds. Also will send her a note to keep the photos coming especially when they are full open. It will be interesting to see how they all compare.
johnw
Hi John
I have just been looking at the photograph again. I really like the way that the petals seems to curve outwards at their tips. Please do ask your friend to keep the photographs coming as I am interested to see the shape as the flower ages.
many thanks
John
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JohnW - GREEN DANCER is real a G. nivalis? It seems that this galanthus has much green color near the base of the inner segments. Very unusual for nivalis(there is some other blood in?!?!)
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JohnW - GREEN DANCER is real a G. nivalis? It seems that this galanthus has much green color near the base of the inner segments. Very unusual for nivalis(there is some other blood in?!?!)
It certainly looks very nice.
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Some quick pics of my (very small) cream Galanthus nivalis taken today, including a couple of pics of it beside a white-flowered seedling to show the difference and that it's not just a trick of the light or the camera.
When first found, it was a single bulb and nit much bigger than this, which is tiny. Hopefully I can breed the cream colour into larger seedlings. The inner mark is yellow and so are the lines inside the inner petals.
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Martin, that is a pretty little snowdrop (and I can definately see that it is cream and not a trick of the light).
Such a shame that it is a S>L>O>W> grower. :-\
Good luck with the pollen (you have soooooooooo much more patience than me (and I have have a lot of patience ;)))
Best wishes
John
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JohnW - GREEN DANCER is real a G. nivalis? It seems that this galanthus has much green color near the base of the inner segments. Very unusual for nivalis(there is some other blood in?!?!)
Hagen - Good thing this was brought up again. I went out to find my few of this green Dancer to double check. It is definitely not a nivalis. Leaves in the photo are the big ones centre and left fore. Definite big pleat in the oldest leaf. I will have to inform my friend of the error. sorry for the false alarm.
johnw
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A few in bloom here today:
Silver Wells (thanks to a prominent forumist)
nivalis Appleby
Latifolius group ex Don Armstrong (may be a named cultivar - to date unidentified) (identified as straight elwesii var. elwesii by Mark - thanks)
elwesii Doris Page (not officially named, just a good doer in Victoria and from her garden, a very special lady now departed)
johnw
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And a few more
nivalis ssp. Imperati (ex Germany)
elwesii Rosemary Burnham
plicatus ex SRGC#1639 seed
Compton Court
The camera works better when the F-stop has now been engaged properly, no idea how long that has been set wrong. And I have been blaming the snow.
johnw
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'Compton Court' has reached Nova Scotia already!?
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'Compton Court' has reached Nova Scotia already!?
Hi Mark
looking at the clump in the phototgraph it seems to have been there for a while.
Best wishes
John
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Whoops missed posting Compton Court (or did I wipe it out accidentally while editing?). It 's there now.
John, got three or four last autumn, ordered one.
johnw
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Rob,
Prompted by your question I had a look at my snowdrop record and have the following after G. 'Desdemona':
Potterton & Martin. 3 for £14.40, Feb 2003 Thank you Bob!
That seems a very good increase. I reckon, from the photograph, that there are 50 - 70 flowers open at the moment and I'm sure there are a few more to come yet. If you look closely, you will see that the bulbs are spread out a bit as I split up this clump last season as I felt it was becoming congested and because I prefer to see snowdrops in drifts rather than in circular clumps.
Other photographs posted early this morning show 'S. Arnott', 'Ophelia' and 'Magnet' which are in far greater number and would again have started off from a purchase of three bulbs. A drift of G. plicatus 'Warham' is just opening and covers about 3 metres X 1 metre after being spread out last season.
Paddy
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Forgive my ignorance : do I detect a distinct note of regret that the delightful Green Dancer is now shown not to be a nivalis form/hybrid, whatever? Is this just because plicatus types of this sort ( I hope to goodness it IS a plicate type) are more usual? I think it's lovely anyway..... I'd hate to think all the exctiement was just because of the nivalos connection???
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If it is a plicatus it's a good find and should get the chop. I know of only one other green tipped plicatus. I cant see the leaf very well. Is there an elwesii hood on the tip?
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Lovely selection of snowdrops , Paddy. I'm not a collector of named snowdrops but I do know Fred's Giant and yours does not look like the real thing. It should have a large X shaped mark. There have been a couple of pictures recently of the true plant. I intend visiting the Cruickshank Garden soon and hope to photograph it in it's original home.
Roma
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If it is a plicatus it's a good find and should get the chop. I know of only one other green tipped plicatus. I cant see the leaf very well. Is there an elwesii hood on the tip?
I have some green-tipped plicatus seedlings. Not as strongly green as 'Greenfinch' but quite nice and I'm hoping for better ones.
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;)
Back from Zummerzet, cold and dark. Two pics of the ditch at East Lambrook Garden yesterday show how late their drops are.
Also Big Boy and Flocon de Neige.
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When Roma says " but I do know 'Fred's Giant' ..... believe her, because she worked at the Cruickshank Botanic Gardens for many years.... where Fred Sutherland, discoverer of Fred's Giant on 1949, was head gardener. It's the old problem of similar plants getting the wrong name, isn't it? :-\
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re Green Dancer:
All the snowdrops at that site were elwesii as I recall (having photographed
and collected seeds there).
It's an old garden, near my grandparents' five acres where elwesii had
naturalized.
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re Green Dancer:
Good to get the news Diane, thanks for that.
Still a nice one.
johnw
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Much more better. ;D
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Paddy - Thanks for the spectacular show. Your conditions seem to be perfect for rapid increase.
johnw
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John W, never thought to see such good and fine galanthus out of Europe. ( because we mean here is the capital of galanthus. But the epicenter is the black sea.) ;)
Hagen
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Roma,
Many thanks for your comments on G. 'Fred's Giant'. My own information on the snowdrop is that it originated at the Cruickshank Gardens and was distributed from there, named after Fred who was there at the time. I was also told that when the original clump was divided and distributed it was discovered that there were in fact several different flower markings - just the stuff for confusion. My own bulbs came from a man who told me he had received them from Fred's daughter with this note on the fact that there seemed to be some very different snowdrops bearing the name; her explanation being that the original clump was in fact a collection of variously marked snowdrops.
I would be delighted to see photographs from Cruickshank Gardens of their plants and hope you can post some after your visit.
EDIT: Back home and am quoting this from the snowdrop book: " 'Fred's Giant' is bedevilled by the not unusual scenario that there are several clones doing the rounds under the one name, each with an impeccable prevenance, and all from the original multi-cloned clump. ..... The one most commonly encountered, especially in Scotland, is an unremarkable snowdrop of medium height, fairly early flowering, with an apical mark on the inner segments and two dots or dashes near the base. Material received from Cruickshank Botanic Garden (1993) showed not this marking but a solid X-shape. We have not observed the variability in mark within clonal groups referred to by Nutt (1993) although it can be seen in the photograph accompanying Lyn Bezzant's 1993 article."
John (W), yes, our conditions seem to suit snowdrops. Certainly, Ireland has been a great breeding ground for daffodils and has produced hundreds of different cultivars and I presume the snowdrops benefit from similar conditions. Referring to your listing in another thread - the wish list - I suggest you let me know if you see something you like and I can take note and send it on later in the season. Is there going to be some difficulty with posting to you? Are there import restrictions on you? You have my list at any rate and can pick and choose from that. As you see, when they get going for me they grow well. Not all perform as well. G. reginae olgae and its cultivars do not like the very wet winter conditions we have and wet summers also lead to heavy wet soil. The last G. reg. olg. I received were planted in a raised bed into pure sand above a gritty mixture, my thought being that the bulbs would be in excellent drainage and the roots would still make their way down into a good growing medium. The last batch of G. reg. olg. lost their flowers to slugs but the foliage is now doing well and I live in hopes of flowers next year.
Paddy
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Here's a link to an article in today's 'Scotsman'.
http://www.scotsman.com/latestnews/Rare-snowdrops-worth-70-each.4933213.jp
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Here's a link to an article in today's 'Scotsman'.
http://www.scotsman.com/latestnews/Rare-snowdrops-worth-70-each.4933213.jp
Thanks Anthony - those nasty thieving Englishmen! Must get myself to the snowdrops markets in Wisbech! ::)
John
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Some newer G. nivalis scharlockii haven`t the classical dogears. The have a tripart spatha.
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and more green on the flower
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ein hübsches nivalis "Angel Fly" blüht zum zweiten mal. Leider schreibe ich nur Deutsch :'( ich hoffe das ist für euch oK ?
Günter
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Günter wrote: A nice g nivalis "Angel Fly" flowering the second season in (my) garden! Hope you will like it!
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Günter wrote: A nice g nivalis "Angel Fly" flowering the second season in (my) garden! Hope you will like it!
Danke Günter
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noch ein lang gesuchtes Snowdrop "Norfolk Blonde" ,fehlte noch in meiner Sammlung.
Günter
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It is a lovely snowdrop Günter, I have just acquired one this year and it is only 0.5 cm out of the ground!
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Both are very nice. Maybe Gunter can show the leaves of Norfolk Blonde. From memory aren't they an unusual colour?
Rob here's a raised bed you could make. The bricks are about £1 each. Each block has a hole underneath where the brick below locks in to. When you want to move it's easy to take apart.
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Günter hast Du auch ein Bild von den Blättern von NORFOLK BLONDE? Mark meint sich zu erinnern, daß sie unüblich ausgefärbt sein müßten!
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I had lots of fun today in my local garden centre hunting for nice snowdrops amonst their ones for sale. They seemed to be a mix of gracilis and elwesii types, maybe hybrids. I got some funny looks from the staff as I spent half an hour on hands and knees carefully studying each pot. It was great to see them lift their skirts when I brought my haul into the kitchen. Here are some of them.
Also, my own pot of G gracilis seedlings, flowering at 7cm high.
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Anthony, these snowdrop thieves must be the ones supplying bulbs in bulk. They couldn't possibly be selling the special snowdrops to which the article refers. The methods would simply not allow them to be selected.
Anne, I'd opt for the top left in the first photograph.
Paddy
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Anne
Your gracilis are spectacular 'big and bouncy' :D
Are they a named form, or one from seed that you are bulking up.
Definitely one to covet.
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Posting photos of the elwesii patch in my front garden before they are laid flat by the promised artic weather.
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Rob, they came from a builders yard
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I found this similar product
http://www.anchorwall.eu/uk/garden/display.aspx?pageid=35 (http://www.anchorwall.eu/uk/garden/display.aspx?pageid=35)
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Arthur nice Elwesii in the first photo I hope there isn't a fire ;D ;D
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Arthur
my favourite is one in the third picture - 4th flower from the bottom. Nice rounded petals. 8)
Is it a different one from all the others?
John
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John
I agree with you - think I will mark it out for further investigation. :)
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John - You have an eye for the good ones. If I took my glasses off I'd say that one was Diggory but them I'm no judge.
johnw
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John - You have and eye for the good ones. If I took my glasses off I'd say that one was Diggory but them I'm no judge.
johnw
That was my thought, but if it is, it has to be a sport. :)
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A couple from me before the snow arrives
sandersii from Ian of the Christie kind - thanks Ian
Mrs Macnamara
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;D ;D
Rodmarton this afternoon very cold and bright. Snowdrops well behind as has been the case elsewhere. G. 'Richard Ayres' and 'Melvillei' doing their stuff, plus three others pictured, but many other varieties still reluctantly making their way upwards.
G. 'Spindlestone Surprise'
G. 'Anglesey Abbey'
G. 'Rodmarton Regulus'
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Anne
Your gracilis are spectacular 'big and bouncy' :D
Are they a named form, or one from seed that you are bulking up.
Definitely one to covet.
It's a pot of seedlings.
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Anne
Your gracilis are spectacular 'big and bouncy' :D
Are they a named form, or one from seed that you are bulking up.
Definitely one to covet.
It's a pot of seedlings.
Anne very satisying how long did they take form seed to flower?
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Another shot of Compton Court (I really like this one) and Galanthus nivalis Viridapice (from a pack of 10 ex Holland, one is white).
Sunny and +4c here today.
johnw
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Snowdrop time again. I was not sure where to post this as it is of general interest rather than for Galanthus fans but this is as good a place as any.
I have posted pictures from here over trhe last two years and it is difficult to get a different slant on it but for those who have not seen them before here goes. Taken today in Fullarton woods in Troon just before the snow - it didn't arrive !
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Tom,
What a fabulous place, great setting and I love the photograph of the snowdrops growing on the old tree trunk; amazing how they managed to gain a foothold right up the trunk. Was some help provided? Is this a naturalised planting or is it managed?
Paddy
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Thanks Tom
I remember that dead trunk well from previous years.
Really nice to see the your photo tour. It looks like a lot of our Southern snowdrops days are going to be cancelled this week. :(
Thanks for showing me the snowdrop woods in 2009 - I look forward to seeing them again in 2010.
Cheers
Jon
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Now that's how I like to see Snowdrops.
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Snowdrop time again. I was not sure where to post this as it is of general interest rather than for Galanthus fans but this is as good a place as any....
I think most, if not all of us, on the road to becoming Galanthus fans, have been seduced by the sheer beauty of snowdrops seen en-masse in the middle of winter.
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Paddy
No help was given to any plants. The tree stump has planted itself up with seeds. The wood is a local park with paths through it - used mainly by dog-walkers and locals taking a walk.
Any branches falling down are left to rot. If a tree falls then it will only be moved if it is a danger.
A few years ago the council were going to sell the ground for housing but there was such an outcry that they quickly backed down. The councillors feared that they would be lynched, such was the feeling among the locals.
In the summer, brambles and scrub cover the snowdrops and it becomes a haven for wild birds. The ground never dries out so maybe that is how the snowdrops have survived and flourished for so long.
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i wanted to ask another question regarding pollinating galanthus again,
the pollen produced from poculiform snowdrops,is this fertile? i know that the structure can be different in poculiform snowdrops, so i am not sure if i can save the pollen?
on the same note, are the stigmas of poculiform snowdrops receptive? seeing as the ovarys on many nivalis pocs are very small and reduced maybe the ovaries are infertile?
thanks
rob
I can't see any reason why the pollen from poculiform snowdrops shouldn't be as fertile as any other snowdrop pollen just because the flower shape is unusual. Doubles produce good pollen, Trym with its unusual shape is fertile and produces good pollen, etc. Re. the ovaries, it's a case of try pollinating and see. A very tiny ovary may indicate an inability to set seed, but you won't know for sure unless you try, so give it a go. But an inability to produce seed doesn't neccessarily mean the pollen won't be okay.
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what a beautiful sight Tom, you are so priviliged to be able to wander around in such a place. :)
The only plants I have ever seen growing in masses like that were wild freesias.
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Snowdrop time again. I was not sure where to post this as it is of general interest rather than for Galanthus fans but this is as good a place as any.
I have posted pictures from here over trhe last two years and it is difficult to get a different slant on it but for those who have not seen them before here goes. Taken today in Fullarton woods in Troon just before the snow - it didn't arrive !
Fantastic Tom. Now where can I hire a JCB? ;D
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Paddy,
I have done a bit of research and found two letters from Fred Sutherland when he sent me some snowdops from his friends' garden at Culcabuck House near Inverness. He called them caucasicus but they are elwesii. I got the first lot in 1992. He said they had flowered in his garden and set seed. I now have a good clump of these. I think there may have been 3 original bulbs as there seem to be 3 distinct clumps and many seedlings of all ages. I am posting a photo taken last year (they are not flowering yet this year) and one of the seed pods. Unfortunately I did not get round to collecting the seeds.
The other letter is dated 1994 and mentions a bulb also from Culcabuck which he calls 'Fred's Giant mark 2'. He had difficulty getting this one as it was among tree roots. He could only spare me one bulb. It has not increased much. Up till now it has not increased but this year there are going to be two flowers The leaves are very long and it is tall but the flower is not very big. It has a single mark like the one you posted.
I have spoken to Bob Rutherford, Fred's successor and he confirms my thoughts on the original 'Fred's Giant'. It is a single clone and does not set seed.It increases well but needs frequent splitting otherwise the bulbs start to rot. I don't have a photo yet but hope to get one if we get some warm weather before the flowers go over.
Hope this clears up some of the confusion.
Roma
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We are always advised to split up clumps if we want the snowdrops to prosper. In the park, so beautifully captured by Tom, this does not seem to apply. Can any one suggest a reason why there are not non-flowering clumps where they have become too congested.
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The forest floor tends to be very rich in leaf mould which is a moisture-retentive but very light growing medium. So it is easy for clumps of bulbs to expand by pushing the soil aside. The opposite situation would be growing snowdrops in heavy clay soil or in rocky ground (or in a small pot) where it is necessary to intervene to spread out your snowdrops; something they can manage themselves in a more natural environment.
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Roma,
Many thanks for following up on G. 'Fred's Giant'. It is great to have background information on the snowdrops we grow.
I must ask you to clear up some misunderstanding on my part.
In the first paragraph of your posting you deal with a G. elwesii (which Fred called G. caucasicus and you clarify is G. elwesii). Does this, and the first photograph, refer to the G. 'Fred's Giant' you referred to in earlier postings?
Your second paragraph deals with what Fred referred to as 'Fred's Giant Mark 2'. This would seem to suggest it was a seedling of the original 'Fred's Giant', something seemingly impossible by further information that 'Fred's Giant' does not set seed. Why was the name 'Fred's Giant Mark 2' applied to it?
Your third paragraph refers to your previous posting confirming, I presume, that G. 'Fred's Giant' as known in the Cruickshank Gardens has an X marking on the inner segments. Is this so?
The clump which I showed recently on the forum has not been lifted and divided since I received the bulbs a few years ago. It is at the stage of needing to be lifted and it will be interesting to see how healthy the bulbs will be.
Many thanks for your research and looking forward to further clarification. Paddy
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I think conditions can vary. If I remember rightly when I found Galanthus plicatus ssp plicatus growing at Lake Abant although there was a covering of leaf litter they were growing in heavy wet clay. Also they did not clump up. I will try and find a slide and scan it in
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I tipped out a pond lily basket sunk into my snowdrop border which was supposed to have a bulb of Galanthus elwesii 'H. Purcell' in it. I found a lovely firm bulb about the size of a Narcissus 'Tête à Tête' bulb, with a few healthy looking roots. Clearly the shoots had rotted off, perhaps because the compost had been too damp? It was mostly organic compost, so I suspect I need more grit in the mix for elwesii?
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I think conditions can vary. If I remember rightly when I found Galanthus plicatus ssp plicatus growing at Lake Abant although there was a covering of leaf litter they were growing in heavy wet clay. Also they did not clump up. I will try and find a slide and scan it in
Tony
I found my digital images of Lake Abant and Yedi Goller
0079 Shows Galanthus plicatus at Lake Abant
0086 Shows Galanthus plicatus at Yedi Goller
I could not resist the opportunity to post Crocus abantensis - much lighter than recent postings in Crocus January 2009
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Arthur yes the picture through the leaf litter is as I remember growing in thick birch woods. You have saved me a job there.Your picture on the hillside is very nice. I did not find any outside the woods in the open.
Crocus abantensis is a nice plant,difficult to distinguish in flower from biflorus pulchricolor
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Some mixed up seedlings in the greenhouse this morning. All others under snow. And some more rhubarb for John :)
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The first picture is Galanthus reginae olgae ssp vernalis
The rest are all Galanthus elwesii nos 17,61 and 62 are normal
but 16 is very large and has four leaves and three flower stems ,one with twin flowers from the same bulb. Unfortunalely a couple of flowers are mis shaped one having a petal attached to the scape and another with an inner and outer petal fused. A bit of a mess really
The last one no 14 has four outer petals and five inner ones a quite robust flower.
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The flipped up ends to 14 are intriguing. I've never seen that before.
62 seems to have a mild version of the flip as well. Are they related?
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g14 is very pretty Tony.
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The flipped up ends to 14 are intriguing. I've never seen that before.
62 seems to have a mild version of the flip as well. Are they related?
Probably from the same seed pod but my records are not that good that I can be certain
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@Tony -g14 is also my favourite - is it stable?
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Some mixed up seedlings in the greenhouse this morning. All others under snow. And some more rhubarb for John :)
Jo - An elegant group of seedlings there.
johnw
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Tony - I like G14 as well. These upturned inner tips. Can this also be the result of aging? I've noticed on a Trym seedling here but can't recall it on any others as they age.
johnw
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id still be intrested to know if poculiform pollen is fertile
Rob, I didn't answer earlier since I don't know yet, and was hoping
someone else would answer.
I've been trying unsuccessfully for several years.
When I first noticed that some of my elwesii were pocs, I had great plans
for finding out their breeding behaviour. I was mostly interested in seeing
whether recessive attributes, like yellow marks, would show in the first
generation, so I was not interested in the poc pollen, but poc as seed
producer.
However, year one - slugs ate the insides of the flowers so
I couldn't even get pollen. Years two and three: crossed one poc with
another. No seeds. Years four and five: pollinated three poc plants
in the garden with yellow nivalis pollen - no seeds.
Now we are at year six. A friend who found a lot of pocs at an old garden
she maintains has lent me her mother pot so I will have more possibilities
this year.
I will bring the pot into the unheated greenhouse, as the slight difference
in temperature might increase the chance of getting seeds.
None is blooming yet. We are more than a month behind schedule this
year.
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@Tony -g14 is also my favourite - is it stable?
I cannot answer this .It is only since I joined the forum that I realised that people were interested in galanthus to such a degree Until this year I have just seen them as nice flowers at this time of year so have not made any observations in previous years.
John it is a quite new flower and so it is not a result of ageing.
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Good luck Diane - after 6 years of trying you deserve a success. I shall keep my fingers crossed for you over the next few weeks. :)
Tony - G14 does it for me too. ;D
Does anyone have last years catalogues to hand? (I can't find mine right now :-[). What was the description of one called 'bloomer'? I seem to remember reading something about the strange shape of the inners (but I could be wrong). Could it be similar to G14's nice upturned edges? I doubt that 'bloomer' had the interesting 4(?) outers and 5(?) inners of G14 though!
Looking forward to seeing a picture of what G14 looks like in 2010.
Cheers
John
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Does anyone have last years catalogues to hand? (I can't find mine right now :-[). What was the description of one called 'bloomer'? I seem to remember reading something about the strange shape of the inners (but I could be wrong). Could it be similar to G14's nice upturned edges? I doubt that 'bloomer' had the interesting 4(?) outers and 5(?) inners of G14 though!
From the 2008 North Green Catalogue
Bloomer: a very distinct, double scaped snowdrop (when mature) found growing within a clump of G. 'Tubby Merlin' in the garden at North Green. One or two bulbs were distributed as G. 'Tubby Merlin' until the 'bloomer' was discovered! A very desireable snowdrop with a pale yellowish-green ovary and a large green mark on the inner segment shading to yellowish-green. Affectionately referred to in the garden here as 'Frilly Knickers' due to the distinctly frilly margins of the inner segments. Early flowering. Choice and scarce.
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Hello friends, I' m the new galanthophile of this evening.
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Welcome Wolfgang
I hope you have a few hours to spare as there is much to see on Galanthus
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Welcome, Wolfgang, you will find many friends here, I hope! Have your snowdrops begun to flower yet?
Here in Aberdeen, in Scotland, they are just beginning.
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Welcome Wolfgang. Glück auf.
You will find plenty to keep you happy on the Forum. :)
Here is a clump of nivalis poking through the snow.
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Willkommenes Wolfgang.
You will find much to interest you on this site 8)
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Wolfgang,
You are very welcome to the forum. We already have some active and well-informed members from Germany who post regularly and I look forward to your contributions and especially to seeing more of the interesting snowdrops which are grown in Germany.
Paddy
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Dear Wolfgang
Welcome! ;D
I am glad you have found this friendly forum. I have learnt so much about Galanthus in the 3 years since I joined up. I look forward to seeing some photographs of your garden.
Kind regards
John
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Paddy,
I'm sorry I did not make myself clear in my last post. As you have read in the snowdrop book 'Fred's Giant was found in the Cruickshank Garden by Fred Sutherland. There is a reference to the snowdrop being sent to Kew and Wisley inthe early seventies. Fred's Giant was not named until after Fred retired which was in 1977 so the name would not have been in use before the late seventies or early eighties though it may have been passed on as Fred's giant snowdrop. Any snowdrops distributed directly from the Garden after this time would be the form with the X mark. It got a P.C. when shown at the early bulb show in 1992. I think it may have been shown earlier at an RHS by Lyn Bezzant. It flowers very early in Aberdeen. All those varieties of Galanthus which are traded and coveted by galanthophiles now were virtually unknown in Aberdeen 30 years ago and probably not much known outside a close circle of people who knew each other.
After he retired Fred lived near Aberdeen but spent a lot of time at his daughter's house in Inverness, eventually moving there to stay. Fred looked after the garden. He collected and exchanged snowdrops with other people. The snowdrop I posted is one I got from Fred which he found in a friend's garden near Inverness. It is later flowering and is fertile. The other snowdrop I mentioned has increased to two bulbs in 16 years! I think he was joking when he referred to it as Fred's Giant mark 2 as it was a very large bulb and it produces huge leaves. It was found at Culcabuck House and is not related to Fred's Giant
I'm not sure how well Fred's daughter would have known the snowdrops. If he did the gardening and had a number of large elwesii type snowdrops it would have been easy for her to be mistaken.
Hope this clears up some of your questions.
Roma
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Perfectly clear, Roma.
Many thanks for the time you have taken to lay out the story of this snowdrop. Much appreciated. Paddy
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Recently I had Paddy going off in search of an Irish snowdrop that proved to be a wild goose chase. I thought I would just show this picture as supporting evidence that it was growing in the location where I saw it on 18th January 2004. I got mine in 2002, when it must have been in flower around the New Year. The photo is taken indoors.
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Oh, and I found another picture of my last sighting in-situ (I have not visited since) on 31st December 2005.
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Is it Ciceley Hall or maybe the Whopper?
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Is it Ciceley Hall or maybe the Whopper?
It's not a whopper nor, to the best of my knowledge, any named variety. Anyway, I have promised to give some to Paddy so maybe he can work it out.
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Alan, Many thanks for the additional photographs. From your photograph I think I have placed where I saw the snowdrop in the garden. It was a small clump, maybe 5 flowers open on Sunday last. I didn't ask for a bulb as I felt there were not enough there to ask for them to be split.
I did see an excellent clump of G. 'Drummond Giant', growing very well, great broad glaucous foliage and in the best of health. Unfortunately, I have found some bulbs of this snowdrop are being passed around when in poor health. One clump of this in my garden is showing only one miserable bulb this season while another clump was hit by fungus at the end of last season though this one seems to have recovered reasonably well now.
A few years ago I set about documenting Irish snowdrops with, peculiarly, great help from Chris Sanham - peculiarly because there seemed to be nobody at this side of the Irish Sea with the knowledge or enthusiasm to do it. Some years back there were two enthusiasts at the National Botanic Gardens who had care of the woodland planting there and these two people did great work on Irish snowdrops but promotion and other work opportunities has moved them from this position and those who took over care of that area of the gardens seem not to be so well informed or interested. Since then I have found it both exciting and frustrating that research into snowdrops of Irish snowdrops has led to the discovery of more and more but these are often not significantly different and one regularly comes across snowdrops being named after, say, a garden where they were noticed but without any research being done on whether or not they were different in any way. The result is that there may noe be a longer list of Irish snowdrop names but not necessarily of different Irish snowdrops. I'm sure the same comment could be applied to snowdrops elsewhere. I am beginning to feel that snowdrops have similar cross-breeding habits as aquilegias, promiscuous, and give rise to a huge range of variations. Whether all these variations should be named is worth considering. G. elwesii, for example, presents itself in many different guises, different markings, and I wonder if they should be simply all be called "G. elwesii" without any cultivar name being applied?
Obviously, I have time on my hands this morning to be waffling away.
Paddy
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The big advantage of giving a snowdrop a name is that it helps posterity keep track of it. On the other hand I think all but the most rabid galanthophile would agree that there are too many named snowdrops. An idea I put forward a few weeks ago was a snowdrop score sheet, giving a snowdrop marks out of 10 in various categories including such things as vigour and hardiness.
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giving a snowdrop marks out of 10
That sounds like a great idea, but a mighty big spread sheet if there really are 600 + types available :)