Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: johnw on January 06, 2009, 01:09:36 AM
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Just to note that Oron has an interesting article in the latest Cyclamen Journal. He may soon be growing arctic plants. ;D
johnw
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Yellow flower Cyclamen ?
In the net I have found articels about the production of yellow flower Cyclamen.These plants are lab made with the use of the Agrobacterium tumefaciens strains for the transformation of the Chalcone reductase gene.
Are there plants in culture or is it possible to show picts ?
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I agree that it could be very interesting to make a job like this, but to be honest, I don't like flowers which have colors made by people, completely unfamiliar in that genus. I'm not talking about uncommon hues, but totally different colors, which does not occur in that genus. For example blue rose... or yellow Cyclamen. ;D
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Kata,
I agree with you!
This is the second mention that has been made of Oron's article in this Forum.......since I no longer have a membership of the Cyclamen Society, I wonder if anyone might send me a scanned copy...... ::) ??? 8)
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Kata,
I agree with you!
This is the second mention that has been made of Oron's article in this Forum.......since I no longer have a membership of the Cyclamen Society, I wonder if anyone might send me a scanned copy...... ::) ??? 8)
I will try to scan and post it.
johnw
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I will try to scan and post it.
johnw
John, you are most kind but Hans has sent me a copy 8)
We will need to ask permission of the Cyclamen Society if we may post it here.
Thanks, Maggi
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The Cyclamen Society has kindly agreed to allow us to post a copy of Oron Peri's piece from their most recent Journal here.
You may recall that Oron made mention in the Forum some time ago about his glass-cool-house-with-a-difference !
Thanks to Hans J for sending this copy
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
Many of you will have found a link to the Cyclamen Society website from the Forum Link pages, but I'll repeat it here....
http://www.cyclamen.org/indexCS.html
Anyone wanting to know more about the Cyclamen Society may contact Arthur Nicholls ( art600 ) who will be pleased to help.
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Fantastic idea, isn't it? 8)
Maybe this is how we might grow at least the tidier sub-antarctic megaherbs (having managed to track down seed, that is ::)).
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Oron,
just now ,by coincidence, I stumbled on your article in the Cyclamen Soc. Journal.
What an ingenious brainwave of your's to grow the cooler climate species in a refrigerated cake display cabinet![ it is certainly not a grandparents , parents,
Fauser's cake shop antique piece -you know].
The species you mention, as well as all the other species, thrive planted out in my garden, even though in summer the temperature climbs on some days to 38 or so.
But on the downside I can hardly ever flower C. rohlfsianum , despite keeping the tubers bonedry in the resting period- could that be because of the altitude here-
500 meters ,and reasonable cool nights even during summer ?
I remember years ago , at the Munich Botanic Garden , we had more than 100 flowers on one tuber-grown in a glasshouse , in which the temperature never dropped
below 12 C.- maybe this is the answer to my problem?
Otto.
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Oron I also enjoyed your article in Cyclamen Society Journal what a great piece of lateral thinking 8). I was also interested to see that you had your priorities right when you cancelled an appointment with presumably a paying client to deal with the wants of your plants - such clear thinking ;D
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Otto - Cyclamen rohlfsianum flower here quite well and we do keep it completely dry during the summer. We leave it on a shaded shelf in the greenhouse where temperatures stay well under 28c. Summer nights here are cool as well - 10-17c - from mid-June until mid-September, the greenhouse would drop similarly.
johnw
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Tanks all,
Otto, they have probably used big blocks of ice at that time....
I think most Cyclamen can have high temperatures when dormant in summer, the problems starts while growing,
The combination of relativly high temp. and humidity is fatal in most cases while cold dry wether is the best.
Every now and then i try to grow a species outside [when i have enogh plants...], for example at the moment C. coum ssp. caucasicum ans some C. elegans are out and they seems to grow very well.
Same for C. purpurascens and some intaminatum.
Regarding C. rohlfsianum, i think it is also the level of light that counts and not only the hot backing fact...
it growes here as if it is in its natural habitat but that is because it has many bright sunny days in winter too.
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Not sure if this is the correct place to put these pictures, but the Cyclamen have certainly been brightening up our porch during this bitter weather. They don't usually reside there but in the greenhouse or frame but Brian thought they needed some TLC whilst it was freezing solid every night.
The first pictures are of Cyclamen persicum, a few years old this one and it has flowered before. The second is Cyclamen elegans x alpinum, this is the first time it has flowered it was sown 2006. It's flower only one so far but more to come, is just 1cm long and across. Both plants come from Cyclamen Society seed.
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No bad idea to give those cyclamen the luxury of some time in the porch in the weather we've been having, Shelagh, I think Brian is wise to do this.
I bet the persicum is making the porch smell nice, too, an added bonus.
The little hybrid flowering for the first time is very cute......that colour combo is a real favourite of ours..... blackcurrant splodges.... yummy!
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Nice to see it's stopped raining in Aberdeen Maggi, you've taken your waterproof off! :o :o ;D
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Nice to see it's stopped raining in Aberdeen Maggi, you've taken your waterproof off! :o :o ;D
Not really, Shelagh, it's just rotted with all the water..... I'll mend it though :D
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A couple of cyclamen out today. The first is a late flowering Cyclamen cyprium
and the second the first of my Cyclamen alpinum.
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Tony in order to compare your C alpinum with my X, what size pot is yours in?
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Shelagh its in a 5 inch diameter pot and has been since 2000 without being repotted or fed, just regular Provado to keep the vine weevils at bay. Your hybrid is lovely.
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Not sure if this is the correct place to put these pictures, but the Cyclamen have certainly been brightening up our porch during this bitter weather. They don't usually reside there but in the greenhouse or frame but Brian thought they needed some TLC whilst it was freezing solid every night.
The first pictures are of Cyclamen persicum, a few years old this one and it has flowered before. The second is Cyclamen elegans x alpinum, this is the first time it has flowered it was sown 2006. It's flower only one so far but more to come, is just 1cm long and across. Both plants come from Cyclamen Society seed.
Hi Shelagh,
what are the leaves like on your elegans x alpinum ? and did you get the seed of this cross from the cyc soc seed exchange ?
Jo
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Cyclamen purpurascens, a bit out of season but bringing with it some wonderful bulb seed 8)
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I've been looking for seed of these for years.
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By, jove, that's an old catalogue you're using there, Gerry! ;) Are you sure they're still in business? ::)
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By, jove, that's an old catalogue you're using there, Gerry! ;) Are you sure they're still in business? ::)
I've tried emailing, but no response so far.
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By, jove, that's an old catalogue you're using there, Gerry! ;) Are you sure they're still in business? ::)
I've tried emailing, but no response so far.
;D ;D ;D
I have to say, I think they are using highly doctored photos in that catalogue , so even if you made contact, I think it would end in tears when the plants didn't look like the pictures......... ::) ;)
I had the same heartbreak over a blue rose.....
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By, jove, that's an old catalogue you're using there, Gerry! ;) Are you sure they're still in business? ::)
I've tried emailing, but no response so far.
;D ;D ;D
I have to say, I think they are using highly doctored photos in that catalogue , so even if you made contact, I think it would end in tears when the plants didn't look like the pictures......... ::) ;)
I had the same heartbreak over a blue rose.....
Stop destroying my illusions Maggi - I always trust nursery catalogues.
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Hi Jo, sorry it's taken me a while to get back to you. The leaves are beautifully marked and very compact and 2 more flowers have come out.
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Shelagh, the leaves are really beautiful aren't they, is it the first time its flowered for you ? Did it take long to flower from seed sowing ?
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Jo it was sown 8.1.06 and these are the first flowers and the seed came direct from the Cyclamen Society. They have a very good seed exchange.
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I've been attending digital photography classes provided by Aberdeen College. On Thursday we had a 'field trip' to the Duthie Park winter gardens. It was very wet and windy so we were glad to be inside. The Cyclamen persicum hybrids are not alpines but they were very colourful. The ones bedded out aren't too bad but those on the benches were a bit boring. It's a long time since I'd been to the park but I seem to remember big zonal geraniums trained on the wall at the back of the long corridor. I suppose it is easier to grow large quantities of one plant and change the whole display at once rather than having a mixed display of plants.
The first pictures are the bedded out plants followed by the large flowered hyrids in the long corridor at the back of the greenhouses.
These are followed by smaller flowered hybrids in a corridor leading back to the main greenhouses.
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Second lot of pictures. Some of the smaller hybrids have attractive bicolour flowers.
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You can't fault these cyclamen for flower power, can you? Super photos, too, Roma 8)
These mega bedding displays are bit of a change for a woman who grows Medal winning champion Cyclamen rohlfsianum, aren't they? Slightly surprised you could keep a straight face..... you must have been busy concentrating on getting great pictures!! :D
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It was great fun dashing round the greenhouses snapping away. I took 97 pictures in just over an hour. I may show some of the others in another thread once I've got them sorted and resized. I'm still very much a novice at it but I am making fewer mistakes. Trouble is if I don't keep doing things on the computer I forget and have to work it out again or I get something right and forget how I got there. I've only been using a computer for about 4 years and at my age information does not seem to stick the same.
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Maybe that is what I should do, Roma.
The subjects may not be our first choice for filling our greenhouses but your pictures have done them justice.
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I wonder if anyone else's Cyclamen coum BSBE form 1 looks like this. It has pure silver/pewter leaves, and flat flowers. Two plants are flowering like this at the mo and were the same last year. They were from cyc soc seed exchange in 05
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Well Jo those are certainly different although I seem to recall (and I think it was on the forum) some time last year that someone put up a picture of a cyclamen with 'droopy' flowers, but I'm not sure if if was the same flavour as yours.
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I wonder if anyone else's Cyclamen coum BSBE form 1 looks like this.
Hi Jo,
What I got as BSBE form 1 from Tilebarn several years ago looks like yours. However seedlings from it are very varied, with few (maybe 10-15%) retaining the pure silver leaf.
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There must be a whole mix out there going under that name. The Cyclamen book, C G-W, suggests that form 1 should have leaves banded with silver. Mine have entirely silver. The book also suggests that form 2 should have pink flowers whereas mine have the christmas tree pattern leaf and white flowers with virtually no blotch.
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What's meant by 'banded with silver' (C G-W p. 158*) is unclear to me - just as I'm uncertain how pewter differs from silver (although of course I accept that these terms probably have clear meanings to some people). But things get more confusing if you look at the caption to figure 57 on page 77: 'Cyclamen elegans: plant with pewtered leaves derived from BSBE 518'.
??? ??? ??? A seedling then? But this comes soon after the statement that elegans is 'quite distinct' from coum in leaf, flower morphology & flowering time (in cultivation, not in the wild). Obviously the two taxa hybridize readily but how could a seedling of coum be elegans?
Is this utterly contradictory or am I just loosing it? :-\
*2003 Revised edition
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Agreed Ashley,
there's some food for thought. I wonder if he means the same expedition rather than the same collection number. They are, after all different species....now.
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In 'Cyclamen' published in 1997, I have not moved on in books since then, elegans is named as a new sub species of Cyclamen coum. I can see no difference but I am not a botanist.
Unless the seed is fresh from the wild I think there is little hope of it remaining true in seed exchanges.Most seed is open pollinated in the greenhouse or garden and I have observed the early bees moving from plant to plant without reading the labels.
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;D ;D
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thats the trouble with bees, no scruples :)
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There is an account of the Bowles Scholarship Memorial Expedition to Iran, 1963 (BSBE) by Brian Mathew in the Journal of the RHS, Jan & Feb 1965. Although no collection numbers are mentioned it is possible to make reasonable guesses as to the identity of some of the plants mentioned.
The expedition drove to Iran via northern Turkey & the Black Sea coast. The first cyclamen mentioned (“C. vernum”) was seen near Bolu - “with plain or marbled leaves....flowers.....carmine purple.” I would guess this to be BSBE 513. The next was found near Samsun - “in moss on cliffs in very wet situations....most beautiful silvery leafed forms.” I would guess this to be BSBE 518. C. G-W in his ‘97 book assigns this to C. coum subsp. coum on p121 & to C. coum subsp. elegans on p182 (not the only example of careless editing in this book). BSBE did find what I would guess to be C. coum subsp. elegans on the Caspian coast - “with leaf & flower shape reminiscent of C. pseudibericum.... in moss & often high up on the branches of trees.”
My plant of BSBE 518 came from Tilebarn years ago & has the ‘Christmas Tree’ leaf & quite dark flowers. I find it does better in an open plunge bed than under glass. During the recent very cold spell it looked really miserable with leaves a bit like wilted spinach, but it perked up with the weather & now looks fine with lots of buds.
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Refering back to my previous post about wild seed,I have nine plants from a seed pod collected near Bolu. One is plain,one is dark with a few markings and the other seven have a christmas tree effect. I have compared these with one from Nur Dag in SE Turkey a thousand miles away and they look the same.If they collected a plant(plants) under a number and raised seed from it the variation would be infinite.
I have also seen beautifully marked plants near Samsun but also very plain ones there.
CGW suggests there is a cline from Wto E and I think the Cyclamen society have looked at this but I do not know if they also drew the same conclusion.
I think that after 40 years in cultivation with numerous generations raised to still attribute a plant to a collection is not a good idea.
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[quote author=Tony Willis link=topic=2893.msg70538#msg70538 date=1232467779
I think that after 40 years in cultivation with numerous generations raised to still attribute a plant to a collection is not a good idea.
[/quote]
Tony - in most cases I would agree with this. Peter Moore at Tile Barn describes his plants as "derived from 'BSBE 518'" and since he selects the seedlings he distributes under this description to be fairly uniform I think it is a reasonable one.
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Gerry
not an unreasonable comment. I was trying to avoid causing offence to Peter Moore,he runs a wonderful nursery and I have had some smashing plants from him in the past when I have visited.
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Yes, Peter Moore manages to produce wonderful cultivars, ( I love C hederifolium ' Tilebarn Greville ' ) but the seed exchange is quite different, most of the seed I guess is open pollinated.
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C hederifolium ' Tilebarn Greville '
This is not one I'm familiar with, Jo.... any chance of a photo, or a link?
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Here it is, Tilebarn Greville, at Tilebarn last September, Its the leaves I love. He also has Tilebarn 'Shirley' , same leaf, white flowers.
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Oh, VERY nice! Thanks, Jo.
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The Town where I live, Tivon is famous for its Cyclamen persicum [which is its symbole as well],
The cyclamen grow every where and some old gardens are literally carpeted with them like this entrance.
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Wow Oron, what an absolutely beautiful site. Are they scented as well ?
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Oh..... :o what a beautiful sight.
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Just lovely - it seems you never have a real winter!
Gerd
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thanks all.
Jo they are scented, and quite nicely.
Gerd, this is C. persicum's normal time of bloom, but unfortunately you are right, we are having a terrible drought that last for the fifth year allready.
So far we had only 9 rainy days this winter,
And we are not allowed to water our gardens any more.
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Gerd, this is C. persicum's normal time of bloom, but unfortunately you are right, we are having a terrible drought that last for the fifth year allready.
So far we had only 9 rainy days this winter,
And we are not allowed to water our gardens any more.
Oron,
It seems you combine winter and sufficient rain - here in the north winter means too much rain, cold and hardly any flowers.
Although there is much told of the lack of water in southern countries (Spain for instance) I was not aware of that Israel was also affected.
Nevertheless I am envious about your display of Cyclamen persicum.
Gerd
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Sorry to hear you have water restrictions, Oron, as do the Australian members, too.
Wonderful though that these plants can still look so beautiful. These drifts of Cyclamen persicum are a delight ...... Ian thought he could almost smell them! :)
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Oron, those persicum are magnificent :o
I wonder if anyone else's Cyclamen coum BSBE form 1 looks like this. It has pure silver/pewter leaves, and flat flowers.
Here's my BSBE Form 1, a bit tatty from outdoor living.
Cyclamen elegans from CS seedex 2005
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Here's a pic of a small patch of fairly typical Cyclamen coum in my bulb bed but my question really relates to the leaves of some Cyclamen hederifolium on the left hand side of the picture and to wether these should be described as pewter or silver. I see that in the post above Ashley has covered his options by describing the leaves of his coum as pewter/silver. How does one distinguish between pewter and silver??
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In real life/metals : very easily.... in plants: with some difficulty! :P
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Can anyone recommend a fungicide which is safe to use on cyclamen?
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Ashley has covered his options by describing the leaves of his coum as pewter/silver.
That was Jo ...
How does one distinguish between pewter and silver??
... but I'm hoping to learn too.
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Can anyone recommend a fungicide which is safe to use on cyclamen?
Gerry - We've occasionally used Rovral (GUARANTEE: 500 g/kg IPRODIONE) for grey mould, it's a wettable powder. Also the systemic Funginex (Triforine 195 g/L), Captan and Benomyl over the years never with ill effect. Never spraying in hot sun.
You can google these for the MSDS.
johnw
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I would hazard a guess that if you look at Ashley's picture of BSBE 1 the margin of the flower might be described as pewter and the centre as silver, and David the hederifolium leaves look silver. Mind you even CG-W doesn't really distinguish the two in his monograph. I think more pics should be put up here so a concensus can be reached :D
Does anyone know if the RHS colour charts have a definative answer on silver and pewter ???
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So you think 'pewter' refers to pale colouration that is less intense/solid than 'silver'? Makes sense.
Thanks Jo ;)
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I agree with Jo about the differences, not that I understand English better, only by growing many Cyclamen that came under these names.
The C. hederifolium David have posted earlier is a good sample for 'Silver leaf', while pewter is more of extinguished, opaque color.
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Cyclamen Coum foliage today.
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Can anyone recommend a fungicide which is safe to use on cyclamen?
Gerry - We've occasionally used Rovral (GUARANTEE: 500 g/kg IPRODIONE) for grey mould, it's a wettable powder. Also the systemic Funginex (Triforine 195 g/L), Captan and Benomyl over the years never with ill effect. Never spraying in hot sun.
You can google these for the MSDS.
johnw
Many thanks John. In recent times many fungicides formerly available to amateurs have been withdrawn in the EU & I think this includes the ones you mention - Benomyl has certainly disappeared. I used to use Carbendazine (='Supercarb') on 'bulbs' when needed (rarely) but this no longer exists. The only ones I can find at the moment are old style Copper fungicide, Mancozeb (='Dithane') & Penconazole (='Fungus Clear'). How effective these are &/or how safe with 'bulbous' plants I guess I will have to discover for myself.
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Ashley has covered his options by describing the leaves of his coum as pewter/silver.
That was Jo ...
How does one distinguish between pewter and silver??
... but I'm hoping to learn too.
Sorry Ashley, of course it was Jo, my old brain's getting frazzled.
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Can anyone recommend a fungicide which is safe to use on cyclamen?
Gerry - We've occasionally used Rovral (GUARANTEE: 500 g/kg IPRODIONE) for grey mould, it's a wettable powder. Also the systemic Funginex (Triforine 195 g/L), Captan and Benomyl over the years never with ill effect. Never spraying in hot sun.
You can google these for the MSDS.
johnw
Many thanks John. I recent times many fungicides formerly available to amateurs have been withdrawn in the EU & I think this includes the ones you mention - Benomyl has certainly disappeared. I used to use Carbendazine (='Supercarb') on 'bulbs' when needed (rarely) but this no longer exists. The only ones I can find at the moment are old style Copper fungicide, Mancozeb (='Dithane') & Penconazole (='Fungus Clear'). How effective these are &/or how safe with 'bulbous' plants I guess I will have to discover for myself.
Gerry, from what I read a couple of weeks ago the next round of EU 'inspired' attacks on agricultural and horticultural chemicals will see all the existing fungicides, and most of the insecticides currently available to gardeners being wiped out.
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I would hazard a guess that if you look at Ashley's picture of BSBE 1 the margin of the flower might be described as pewter and the centre as silver, and David the hederifolium leaves look silver. Mind you even CG-W doesn't really distinguish the two in his monograph. I think more pics should be put up here so a concensus can be reached :D
Does anyone know if the RHS colour charts have a definative answer on silver and pewter ???
Maggi has an RHS colour chart :-X
Jo, thanks for that, maybe others will be able to post some more pictures.
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Michael, what a marvelous selection, thanks for posting these photos :o
There seems to be also a stunning leaf of C. hederifolium on the top right side of the first photo.
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Thanks Oron, the Hederifolium seedlings come up everywhere here,I do have to transplant them when they get mixed with the coum or they would overwhelm them.
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Wonderful cyclamen!
Yes, Maggi does (thanks to David :-*) have an RHS colour chart.... not the full version.... but there is no mention of such metallic hues therein.
In shows there is often controversy about silver .....grey...... somtimes a problem that is circumvented by the wording silver/grey ::)
The difference with both the silver or grey and silver or pewter quetion is, I think, one of shine/sheen ::)....... that is to say, as Oron put rather well, silver suggests a gleaming, luminous silvery hue, whereas grey and pewter refer to a more opaque and dull grey metallic tone.
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Cyclamen Coum foliage today.
Lovely cyclamen Michael, are they outside in the ground or potted ? And are they self sown or planted out seedlings :)
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Jo, they are planted in a slightly raised bed, mostly strays that come up in the most unusual places. I planted a few from pots originally and then add any strays I find.
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Can anyone recommend a fungicide which is safe to use on cyclamen?
Gerry - We've occasionally used Rovral (GUARANTEE: 500 g/kg IPRODIONE) for grey mould, it's a wettable powder. Also the systemic Funginex (Triforine 195 g/L), Captan and Benomyl over the years never with ill effect. Never spraying in hot sun.
You can google these for the MSDS.
johnw
David / Gerry - Funginex and Benomyl are gone now here. For the consumer, there really is only Captan in 1 Fruit Tree Spray, Sulphur and Bordo. Rovral is only for licensed sprayers. So much the same situation here. Last month it was announced that No-Damp will be off the market here for consumers and growers. You can see what's available to consumers and growers on the www.plantprod.com (http://www.plantprod.com) site.
johnw
johnw
Many thanks John. I recent times many fungicides formerly available to amateurs have been withdrawn in the EU & I think this includes the ones you mention - Benomyl has certainly disappeared. I used to use Carbendazine (='Supercarb') on 'bulbs' when needed (rarely) but this no longer exists. The only ones I can find at the moment are old style Copper fungicide, Mancozeb (='Dithane') & Penconazole (='Fungus Clear'). How effective these are &/or how safe with 'bulbous' plants I guess I will have to discover for myself.
Gerry, from what I read a couple of weeks ago the next round of EU 'inspired' attacks on agricultural and horticultural chemicals will see all the existing fungicides, and most of the insecticides currently available to gardeners being wiped out.
David / Gerry - Funginex and Benomyl are gone now here. For the consumer, there really is only Captan in 1 Fruit Tree Spray, Sulphur and Bordo. Rovral is only for licensed sprayers. So, much the same situation here. Last month it was announced that No-Damp will be off the market here for consumers and growers. Registration of chemicals is very expensive in Canada and the market too small for the chem companies to bother. You can see what's available to consumers and growers on the www.plantprod.com (http://www.plantprod.com) site, a useful site if you enter in the commercial part of the site.
johnw
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Cyclamen coum in flower at the moment from NE Turkey
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Tony that is superb :o
petals are a bit elongated aren't they?
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Lovely potfull Tony.
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Superb plant Tony - any idea how old it is ??
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Superb plant Tony - any idea how old it is ??
just been out in the dark with a torch to look at the label. Sown 1992.
Oron I cannot notice anything different about the petals. What I think is interesting are the leaves. This is from eastern Turkey where they are supposed to be moving into the elegans shape and yet it is no different to those found in the west.
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Absolutely beautiful! :o
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Beautiful plant Tony!
Cyclamen persicum with pink Schizanthus pinnatus ,taken today.
[attach=1]
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This is a picture of what I believe to be Cyclamen persicum taken in Paphos, Cyprus, in January 1996. I wonder if they are still there ? The picture was scanned from a slide as digital photography was not yet in amateur use.
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Although they are building all around the area on every available bit of land the site of 'The Tomb of the Kings' at Paphos has tens of thousands blooming all over the grounds and in every crack in the brickwork. I think they are quite safe unless herbicide is used.
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Cyclamen persicum with pink Schizanthus pinnatus ,taken today.
(Attachment Link)
What a stunning combination - South America and the Mediterranean! Beautiful picture!
Gerd
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Photos taken this morning, the first C. pseudoibericum
the second is coum originally from the most soutern population known, South to Mt. Meron in the upper Galilee.
This is the typical appearance of the coum in our region [S. Lebanon and N. israel], there is very little variation in flower color or leaf pattern [accept offcourse from coum 'Golan Heights].
Tony if you look carefully at the flower form, color of the mouth and its flat form you will notice what i meant earlier, compering to your plant.
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Good markings on the leaves of your pseudibericum Oron and quite long coum leaves, getting towards elegans shape. Good colour in the coum flower. Is the eye white or pink ?
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Photos taken this morning, the first C. pseudoibericum
the second is coum originally from the most soutern population known, South to Mt. Meron in the upper Galilee.
This is the typical appearance of the coum in our region [S. Lebanon and N. israel], there is very little variation in flower color or leaf pattern [accept offcourse from coum 'Golan Heights].
Oron, interesting coum form! Do you have pics from 'Golan Heights' too?
The last one is a pure white one, isn't it? Is it better than C. coum f. albissimum, which
is a very tender plant with long and weak leaf- and flower stalks here?
Gerd
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Oron I now see what you mean and it is quite a nice flower. Your coum is nice,I have similar ones from the Hatay and also some very pale ones from there. They are not in flower yet so I cannot show one. The pseudibericum is very early, mine will not flower for another couple of months.
Here is a Cyclamen coum from Nur Dag which is in S Turkey which is similar,perhaps the population is quite uniform in the South
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Your Cyclamen pics pushed me to leave the house and so I found (in the alpine house)
Cyclamen coum coum pallidum 'Album' from AGS seed distribution 2006/2007.
Gerd
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Gerd that is very nice. I to have braved the weather and here are a couple
Following the post from Oron here is a Cyclamen coum from Southern Turkey It has leaves 7cms both across and lenghtways.
The other is a Cyclamen parviflorum with six petals. There is only one flower to show the others have been eaten by my resident slugs
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Is the eye white or pink ?
Oron I now see what you mean and it is quite a nice flower. Your coum is nice,I have similar ones from the Hatay and also some very pale ones from there. They are not in flower yet so I cannot show one. The pseudibericum is very early, mine will not flower for another couple of months.
Photos taken this morning, the first C. pseudoibericum
the second is coum originally from the most soutern population known, South to Mt. Meron in the upper Galilee.
This is the typical appearance of the coum in our region [S. Lebanon and N. israel], there is very little variation in flower color or leaf pattern [accept offcourse from coum 'Golan Heights].
Oron, interesting coum form! Do you have pics from 'Golan Heights' too?
The last one is a pure white one, isn't it? Is it better than C. coum f. albissimum, which
is a very tender plant with long and weak leaf- and flower stalks here?
Gerd
Jo I would say more pink.
Gerd, wonderfull plant!
Here is a coum 'Golan Heights' not the original one but identical to it.
I have found it two years ago at the same place [Odem], unfortunately it didn't survive.
The photo was taken just after snow had melted and so it is quite muddy but the flowers are white as snow!!
Tony infact I find that south populations are not variable,
I find your plant to have some elongated form similar to C. elegans also by its elongated white mouth.
You are right about the C.pseudoibericum it is quite early, but this year we have un normal temperatures for the season and its seems spring is almost here.
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[quote author=Tony Willis link=topic=2893.msg72485#msg72485 date=1233316147
The other is a Cyclamen parviflorum with six petals. There is only one flower to show the others have been eaten by my resident slugs
[/quote]
Tony i would be glad to have it with the six petals and the slugs, this species gives me hard time... ;)
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Great plants everyone!
Oron, are you growing C. coum outside? - Here it is one of the more delicate species (and parviflorum also would be impossible to grow here I think).
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Oron, interesting coum form! Do you have pics from 'Golan Heights' too?
The last one is a pure white one, isn't it? Is it better than C. coum f. albissimum, which
is a very tender plant with long and weak leaf- and flower stalks here?
Gerd
Here is a coum 'Golan Heights' not the original one but identical to it.
I have found it two years ago at the same place [Odem], unfortunately it didn't survive.
The photo was taken just after snow had melted and so it is quite muddy but the flowers are white as snow!!
Thank you for the pic of the Golan plant, Oron. Super specimen! It looks much better than the albissimum which I had.
At the moment, through the kindness of a Dutch Cyclamen specialist (I believe you know him) I am growing some seedlings of Cyclamen coum ' Lake Effect '. being curious about what will appear.
Gerd
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Hi Oron, it looks like Golan Heights in your pic has patterned leaves, I thought the leaves are always plain ???
Here are some pics from my garden and alpine house today, first a range of species in bloom in the alpine house. Sorry about the photography ! :-\
C alpinum
C elegans
C parviflorum
C persicum
C pseudibericum
C purpurascens
C x Wellensiekii
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And now some coums
C coum Golan Heights
C coum George Bisson
C coum Tilebarn Elizabeth
C coum BSBE form 2
C coum Blush
C coum stripey leaf
C coum seeding
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I don't know how well others manage with C coum 'Tilebarn Elizabeth', but I really struggle with it in pots.All the more surprising then that this plant has been happy at the back of my herbaceous border (where I can hardly see it) for three years. Another pleasant surprise was to see the amount of flower buds on this seedling C coum, many more than on its siblings.
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Great plants from every one, Thank you
Hans, there is a strain of coum I'm working on and I grow it out side, it is originally from seeds i have collected at the most Southern population known.
Amazingly this colony grows together side by side with C. persicum, at 800m in very different conditions from what you would aspect for coum.
The only obstacle is that they are quite shy to set seeds, and so it takes much time to increase my stock.
Hopfully in a few years I'll have enough to start giving some .
This strain would be great for people that live in much milder areas.
Gerd,
As far as I know Coum 'Lake Effect' originally comes from John Lonsdale, the flower has long a bit serrated petals but with some traces of pink.
The finest albissimums are 'Golan Heights' and 'George Bisson',
I think that 'G . Bisson' is much more suitable to grow in countries where light is low during winter time.
Golan Heights comes originally from a large colony in Odem [900-1000m], where conditions are unique:
8 months a year of complete drought with very high temperatures during summer, and a very cold winter with some days of snow each year, but it enjoys sunny days almost all winter.
and so if it doesn't get lots of light it just decline.
Among the beautiful plants Jo have posted it is possible to see it clearly, the leaves of 'G.Heights' and 'G. Bisson', evidently 'Golan Heights' suffers from lack of light and looks less happy despite all the flowers.
Jo your coum blush and C. elegans are real stunners.
Ann, I never sow such a floriferuos plant such as your Coum. Fantastic.
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Thanks Oron for the info on Golan Heights, I'll change the g/house I keep it in so it gets more winter light.
I had one in the garden in a similar site to the George Bisson , but after the wet season we've had it hasn't reappeared which is a shame, it had flowered well there last 2 seasons. I've got seedlings so I'll try them in various places outside based on your habitat description.
Annew I agree that Tilebarn Elizabeth is much better planted out, mines not in flower in the garden yet. I keep pot grown ones so its easier to isolate and collect seed. And to look good in the greenhouse of course :)
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Hans, there is a strain of coum I'm working on and I grow it out side, it is originally from seeds i have collected at the most Southern population known.
Amazingly this colony grows together side by side with C. persicum, at 800m in very different conditions from what you would aspect for coum.
The only obstacle is that they are quite shy to set seeds, and so it takes much time to increase my stock.
Hopfully in a few years I'll have enough to start giving some .
This strain would be great for people that live in much milder areas.
Oron this is really interesting - I have only one C. coum seedling left here - grandparents should still grow in Yayladagi /Turkey. Generally I would say it is growing in a to warm position - on a small southfacing slope only lightly shaded by a Rosmarinus officinalis - but it does not look bad (it just should flower ::)).
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Oron,
Thank you for detailed informations about the natural occurences.
I think you are right about 'Lake Effect' - Lonsdale is the origin and
when I googled for pics of it recently it seems there is a hint of pink.
Gerd
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Hans , I find it hard to believe that you struggle with C. coum , as you are in a similar
climatic zone as I .Here in my garden and other gardens it selfsows with great vigour
almost a weed[but a nice one] , just like C. hederifolium . C. parviflorum is easy in the
garden too.
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Hello Otto,
here C. hederifolium is weedy, others as C. cilicium (or cilicicum ;)), graecum, persicum, balearicum, repandum ssp. peloponnesiacum or rohlfsianum do fine - but coum could grow better and parviflorum I have never tried here.
Here a pic of some Cyclamen (which fortunately do not know they are no woodland plants 8) ;))
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For anyone thinking of braving the weather and attending the Cyclamen Show at Wisley this coming Saturday, there is an added bonus. Chris Sanham is putting on a display of Snowdrops ;D :) ;D
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For anyone thinking of braving the weather and attending the Cyclamen Show at Wisley this coming Saturday, there is an added bonus. Chris Sanham is putting on a display of Snowdrops ;D :) ;D
Ah, pink and white at the display then, eh?!! ;) Chris hasn't been around the forum much lately... perhaps he has been busy preparing his display plants.
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I hope they are grown under cover or he won't find them!!
Lots of snow - well 3 inches - and still snowing. Good job I stocked up on food. :)
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Oron,
Thank you for detailed informations about the natural occurences.
I think you are right about 'Lake Effect' - Lonsdale is the origin and
when I googled for pics of it recently it seems there is a hint of pink.
Gerd
Here is a picture(poor) of Cyclamen coum Lake Effect flowering for the first time. The seed came from John Lonsdale and is the only one I germinated. It does have a touch of pink and is beautiful.
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Lake Effect is very pretty. What is its history ? Is it from the same region as Golan Heights?
here are some brave cyclamen coum today
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You will have to ask John Lonsdale about the origin of Lake Effect,I think it is one of his selections
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Super plant, Tony!
Jo, stunning pics - although white only from the snow!
So, we should ask John Lonsdale for the history of Lake Effect!
- why isn't it named ' lace effect' ?
Gerd
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I have asked John Lonsdale for his help and received this reply:
"Maggie,
It isn’t one of ‘mine’, it was raised and named by Ellen Hornig and I registered it with the Cyclamen Society on her behalf. This was all documented somewhere on the forum in a thread a couple or three years ago. If people want to see what it really looks like they can check my web site.
Best,
John"
Now, I have searched for this reference in an earlier thread but have only come up with a note where the same comment is made about it being a plant of John's. I have added an edit there to make the point about Ellen Hornig.
Ref. is here: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1305.45 ..... starts with posts from Tim Murphy ( reply 57) and a white coum!
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Thanks Maggi :)
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Here are links to pages from The Edgewood Gardens site ( John Lonsdale) ....firs two are to pages with the different forms of white coum on, including 'Lake Effect' and the last is to just one of the photos of this charming plant.......
http://www.edgewoodgardens.net/Plants_album/The%20Plants%20-%20%20Complete%20Collection/Primulaceae/Cyclamen/Subgen%20Gyrophoebe%20Ser%201/C.%20coum/index2.html
http://www.edgewoodgardens.net/Plants_album/The%20Plants%20-%20%20Complete%20Collection/Primulaceae/Cyclamen/Subgen%20Gyrophoebe%20Ser%201/C.%20coum/index3.html
http://www.edgewoodgardens.net/Plants_album/The%20Plants%20-%20%20Complete%20Collection/Primulaceae/Cyclamen/Subgen%20Gyrophoebe%20Ser%201/C.%20coum/slides/Cyclamen%20coum%20ssp.%20coum%20f.%20albissimum%20Lake%20Effect%200008.html
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A tray of seedling Cyclamen coum Albissimum 'Golan Heights', third year in flower at 7 years old, we use these now as stock plants for seed production, grown in bulb poly tunnel.
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Do you find Golan heights easy Rob. I seem to have variable success with them. I think I may be a bit generous with water ???
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Hello Jo, we find Golan Heights to be easy but less robust than normal coum. They are grown in very good light, in a warm, open ended poly tunnel on a restricted (limited) watering regime - probably underwatered rather than overwatered. In fact having just read back to Oron's comments on January 31st our cultivation is not dis-similar to his remarks on the natural habitat conditions, though probably not so hot in the summer. Has anyone had good or bad experiences of growing Golan Heights outside??
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This is from a reply wich I got from John Lonsdale recently. I asked especially for hardiness.
Gerd
Lake Effect was raised as a seed strain and named by Ellen Hornig of Seneca Hill Perennials - I registered it with the Cyclamen Society on her behalf. This was all documented somewhere on the forum in a thread a couple or three years ago. To see some pictures you can check my web site, below. It is a very good plant, quite variable in leaf markings, unlike Golan Heights, which is always plain green. I have grown George Bisson from seed a few times and find it a very weak plant. Jan Bravenboer has the same issues. Golan Heights is reliable from seed and always flowers in the third year, but it is relatively short lived. All three forms have proved to be hardy here in a sheltered spot in a normal winter
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Thanks Gerdk for finding out about Lake Effect. So it is'nt a naturally occuring form like Golan Heights.
It was also interesting to hear John finds George Bisson a weak plant, it seems to grow well for me planted out in the garden.
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C. persicum 'Karpathos' is in flower with its rare, dark cerise color.
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Mmmm Oron that colour is lovely. The Tb Karpathos that I did from the Cyc Soc seed exchange is flowering in a range of normal colours which is a shame. Those bees must have been at it ;)
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C. persicum 'Karpathos' is in flower with its rare, dark cerise color.
And WHAT a colour! 8)
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I agree. Stunning. :)
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Thanks all,
Jo, infact i find it quite difficult to keep pure strains of C. persicum, this species is supper fertile,
In the last few years I have lost all my persicum Album strain, since all seedlings came to be normal ones.
I try to isolate good plants as much as possible, and if needed i bring them inside the house.
It is like keeping an eye on a female cat in heat... :-\
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I know that problem Oron after six litters of kittens. Nature is pretty powerful, and sneaky ;)
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I am sure that there are some Cyclamen coum out there under the snow. At least I have got this one to look at.
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I took a few Cyclamen pics in Otto's garden in the Dandenongs on Saturday and have posted them to the Southern Hemisphere Thread, here: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3024.15 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3024.15)
cheers
fermi
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Some cyclamen flowering now. Some old (at least 20 years) Cyclamen persicum on a bedroom windowsill. Don't look at the cobwebs!
Cyclamen coum in the greenhouse.
Cyclamen coum close to albissimum from a mixed batch of coum seed from the Cyclamen Society.
The first Cyclamen pseudibericum to flower this year
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What a fantastic display, although I was disappointed with the cobwebs (what cobwebs? ::)). ;) I have three young daddy long legs spiders (Pholcus phalangoides) in the utility room. They spin untidy webs at ceiling height. Vivienne can't see them as she doesn't wear her glasses in there. ;D
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Roma
very nice.I have my persicum on the bedroom windowsill as well. They just go mouldy at the crowns in the greenhouse.
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For my sins I organise the garden open programme for the Birmingham AGS Group. Yesterday we visited the garden of Vic and Jan Aspland and I thought you might appreciate seeing the variety of leaf forms of this small selection of Vic's plants (he had alot) which are mostly hederifolium
EDIT I meant to say these were mostly hederifolium Vic grows just about every species
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What a fantastic collection - something you don't often (ever?) see in this country! ...and then only the overblown, expensive florists varieties.
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What an amazing collection.
Here are three of mine
Cyclamen persicum
Cyclamen parviflorum
Cyclamen coum
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Erich Pasche's Cyclamen hill from today (C. coum Lake Abant)
- for comparison see Cyclamen 2008 - February 7th
Gerd
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This is the thread Gerd refers to... http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1305.0
here is last year's photo....
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Magnificent !!!
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Yeah, I remember... it is fantastic!
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first of the Cyclamen pseudibericum ssp roseum has started to flower
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This is very nice, Tony.
I think I caught a nice persicum last days in Tesco. ;D
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This deep purple coum is from Cycl. society seed, sown in 2007 (not by me), but my friend does not know the name. Can anybody help? (The plant is already mine ;))
[attachthumb=2]
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Nice persicum Kata. Shake it occasionally and it will give you seed too ;)
Elongated leaves of your second one suggest C. elegans or maybe a coum/elegans hybrid, but it can be hard to distinguish with confidence. Lovely plant though 8)
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It seems to me more as Coum ssp caucasicum.
C. elegans has has more elongated petals and mouth but i don't exclude it of being an hybrid [Coum coum x caucasicum].
The plant is too developed already to be C. elegans if it was sown in 2007, this species is much slower.
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Yes you could well be right Oron. I have rather similar plants that came as elegans from the CS seedex, and I understand that caucasicum grades eastward into elegans. However spring flowering is more consistent with caucasicum, as well as blunter petals as you say.
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some more cyclamen in flower at bthe moment
Cyclamen pseudibericum ssp roseum
Cyclamen coum a pale coloured one
Cyclamen coum
Cyclamen parviflorum a pale coloured one
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Ashley and Oron, thank you!
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Lovely selection there Tony. I particularly like your very pale pseuibericum roseum because it also has well marked foliage.
Its raining and windy here but I popped out and took a few pics. C coum 'Nymans' is very stable for me. The first pic is a pot of seedlings in flower, ie lots of tubers in the pot ( note the subtle use of baler twine to mend the frost damage ). Next a couple of 'Nymans' planted out. Then a pot of C coum, Pewter Group, this is one tuber, then the same thing planted out.
The pewter group tubers are altogether more vigorous and make good commercial plants. The Nymans doesn't fit the original description according to Chris G-W,cyclamen book, but comes so true from seed I think it should keep its cultivar status. I have been growing it for 14 years from seed from the AGS seed exchange and it hasn't changed in that time !
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So, we should ask John Lonsdale for the history of Lake Effect!
- why isn't it named ' lace effect' ?
Gerd
for our european friends who may not be familiar with the term, 'lake effect' is most commonly used to refer to weather generated by the Great Lakes, in eastern north america, specifically, heavier snowfalls which are common in some particular places 'lake effect snow' ..i'm not sure where john lonsdale is located, but ellen hornig would quite surely be in this zone;
luckily, when i lived in the east, i was in downtown toronto, the other side of the lakes, and for me, the effect of the lake was reduced snowfall compared to areas farther from the lake!
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Thank you Cohan!
John Lonsdale is located in Exton, Pennsylvania (Edgewood Gardens).
Gerd
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Thank you Cohan!
John Lonsdale is located in Exton, Pennsylvania (Edgewood Gardens).
Gerd
thanks, gerd--i had heard john's name before, and do know of edgewood... not sure if thats still in the lake effect area--i think not, but i'd have to dig up a map..anyway, doesnt matter, still a pretty cyclamen which would not be hardy here, i think...lol
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Two forms of Cyclamen libanoticum. C. libanoticum Eliot Hogkin from a collection he made. The leaves are a little different, the flower smaller, more pointed petals and deeper colour. It is also much slower to flower from seed and I find it a lot harder to keep going, get seed off it etc. Then a more typical cultivated form for comparison.
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Mark very interesting,it seems some of the libanoticum are nearly identical to some forms of pseudibericum roseum.
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Tony, yes they are. The "typical" libanoticum has a M basal blotch, you will see in the Eliot Hogkin form that is a bit blurred and looks more like the pseudibericum blotch. However this form of libanoticum I think the flower is generally more and upside down cone shape. The leaves are also slightly different from the various forms of pseudibericum I have grown as they tend to be a lot thinner (though pseudibericum leaves vary alot in shape, thickness and glossiness of the leaves).
Apparently Eliot collected a few tubers in 1966(?)..I believe the account of his journey to see it is in one of the AGS Journals of that time (I have a copy here). I then got it from Jim & Jenny Archibald seeds. I passed it on to some specialists but I've not seen them offer it.
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Some Cyclamen coum and a Cyclamen pseudibericum from the open garden, all with fresh new flowers to replace those lost under the snow.
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In the Southern hemisphere the autumn species are starting!
Here's Cyclamen graecum growing outside in a raised bed in the Rock Garden,
[attachthumb=1]
cheers
fermi
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Another Cyclamen pseudibericum ssp roseum
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Some Cyclamen coum from the Botanical Garden of Wuppertal -
originally planted by Erich Pasche
Gerd
(Sorry for the bad quality of the pics - I took the wrong lens)
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This, my first attempt at posting, should show three variations of Cyclamen parviflorum photographed
yesterday.
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Very nice - pity they do not have variable leaves.
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Hello, Melvyn.... that's a great start you have made there! Most interesting to see these variations, thank you. 8)
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Melvyn welcome, good to have another Cycla-man here,
Great plants!!!!
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hi Melvyn
good looking plants,where did you get the seed?
Arthur mine all have plain green leaves,no variation but the flowers are different shades.They came from one seed pod from the Zigana Pass in 1989.
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Maggi, Oron, thank you for your welcome.
Tony the plants were grown from seed given to me by a Danish friend. He had grown on plants from seed originally collected by Ole Sonderhousen.
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Nice plants, Melvyn, and welcome to the forum. Yes, it's good to have another Cycla-holic here ;)
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Welcome to the forum Melvyn
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Cyclamen coum flowering in the Strandja area of SE Bulgaria.
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Just a few pics of cyclamen in flower in my greenhouse at the moment.
A group of C pseudibericum roseum showing a range of shades, then C rhodium possibly ssp peloponnesiacum, from CS exchange, then C libanoticum, C creticum,C purpurascens and finally a nice dark shade on C pseudibericum.
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Wonderful Cyclamen from erverybody.
Here a few shots taken recently:
3x C. coum ssp. coum (Erich Pasche's garden)
1x C. coum ssp. coum (Botanical Garden Wuppertal (BGW) - planting by E.Pasche)
2x C. persicum (BGW, in green house)
C. coum mass plantings are impressive, the C. persicum is an impressive large potful
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Lovely images Armin, Cyclamen coum en mass like that takes some beating.
Cyclamen persicum is at its best in my greenhouse now, I potted up lots of seedlings from the 2005 exchanges and have got a good range of leaves and lots flowering.
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Jo,
thanks you like the mass plantings.
The C. persicum is in a smaller greenhouse, it is not outside.
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Cyclamen libanoticum is now flowering with me
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Here is Cyclamen rhodium. I find it tricky to make my camera focus on the flowers nearest the camera. Digital rangefinders have their drawbacks. Any tips ?
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Some stunners in here. I just love seeing the range of leaves and flower types, so many that I haven't seen here in Aus. I particularly like the pale coloured pseudibericum, as I have only ever seen the normal strong pink one here (these forums are the only place I've ever seen any other colours). One of my favourite species for shape and substance, the differing colours are just beautiful in the pics.
Thanks all for sharing your treasures. 8)
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Paul my Cyclamen pseudibericum forma roseum seedlings
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I find it tricky to make my camera focus on the flowers nearest the camera. Digital rangefinders have their drawbacks. Any tips ?
Many digital cameras implement more than one focussing system, at user option. Check the instruction manual and see if there's a center-focus option on yours.
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What a lovely selection of seedlings Tony. 8) Oh to have the time and space - oh, and skill? :-\
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thanks Anthony,I am sure it is the peat in the compost that adds that little something.You are undecided on the skill,perhaps you are right some things just grow themselves!
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Tony,
Good grief!!!!!!! :o There's a nice selection of shades in there by the look of it too. If you ever have a few seeds to spare of anything other than the "normal" dark pink colouration I would love to try them. Hopefully one day I can end up with some pale pinks and maybe a white or two. I love C. pseudibericum because it is just such a chunky robust plant.... always reminds me a bit of coum on steroids!! ;D 8)
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Some of the Cyclamen I have in flower here at the moment......
Please click on the pic to enlarge.
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Some of the Cyclamen hederifolium that have naturalised in part of my fernery.
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And interesting leaf form of Cyclamen hederifolium
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Cyclamen graecum - white form
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Cyclamen graecum
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Cyclamen intaminatum
I forgot to get a fresh pic of Cyclamen rohlfsianum as more flowers have opened (I posted a pic in the Southern Hemisphere topic a few days ago). Cyclamen mirabile has also just started, an C. cilicicum has begun as well.
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Paul
that is a lovely intaminatum,really nice flowers. Not one I find easy to grow well
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Tony,
Glad you liked it. I could almost call intaminatum a weed here, given how freely it seeds and comes up. My main corm that I had for years was about 5 inches across until it died a couple of years ago. I had collected and sown various seeds from it over the years though, and I have a number of seedlings in surrounding pots of course. The wonderful thing is that despite it being white with little to no leaf markings it has thrown white or palest pink seedlings, with leaves ranging from pure green to quite heavily marked. I've never done anything properly with them unfortunately, so most of them are still in their mass planted seed pots. Given I have lost the parent I really should isolate and keep a few good ones to grow on properly. The one I photographed is in a pot by itself as it is a nice pure white, and I have a pale pink with marked leaves in it's own pot as well. I just love the veined petals. My original plant could get up to 100 flowers or so at it's peak, but my younger ones are nowhere near the size of it so they get only a fraction of that.
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Great plants Paul,
I also find C. intaminatum not an easy one to grow and certainly not a fast growing one.
Can i ask what are the minimum and max temperatures in your area?
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I found the plain leaved variety did well for me in a pot, and now out in a trough. I also had a "mystery" one that appeared in the plunge which is pink that is also reasonably strong. Most of the others I've raised from seed with patterned leaves are really hard going here.
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Oron,
Temps up to absolute max of around 40'C in summer (with lots well over 30'C to 35'C), with min of -8 or -9'C once or twice each winter (with plenty of frosts and lots of -3 to -5'c). The majority of the Cyclamen have little or no protection at all in winter, but I have some afternoon summer sun protection for them. C. rohlfsianum is the exception, as it is up against the house and well protected from the actual frost, although it does get quite cold there. All are grown in pots, except the odd couple in the ground. This means that most get the magnification effect of cold in the pots as well, as they don't get the insulation of the ground around their roots.
How does all of that compare to the conditions you grow yours in? For those of you interested I can easily share seed if you're wanting to try them from my stock?
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Here is a couple pics from SW. Turkey. First one is C. trochopteranthum syn alpinum I have seen only one sample. For second one I am not sure. It may be C. coum or C. alpinum and it was very common for that region.
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Ibrahim
They are both C. alpinum [syn. C. trochopternathum], the light one is forma leucanthum , a real beauty and not often seen in the wild.
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Ibrahim
coum does not occur in the South West,only in the North and the Hatay down towards Syria
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Oron,
How does all of that compare to the conditions you grow yours in? For those of you interested I can easily share seed if you're wanting to try them from my stock?
Paul
Summer temperatures are quite similar to yours around 32-35C but in winter it never drops under +5c and this is probably what makes the difference.
C. mirabile and cilicium are doing Ok, at the moment I have a few intaminatum 3 years old that looks good, they are situated on the northern, cooler part of the house.
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Ibrahim
They are both C. alpinum [syn. C. trochopternathum], the light one is forma leucanthum , a real beauty and not often seen in the wild.
Oron, What do you mean with forma leucanthum? like albino or var. leucanthum! Because they have different lieves and corms. While the white one has more round corm, the dark one has a corm like coum it is pressed bottom and upper side. :-\
Here are the leaves of the dark pink one which Kees posted last autumn
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Ibrahim,
Love those trochopteranthum. That is one that I have tried twice and lost both times. :-\
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And I want to learn something about replant them this time. The leaves become dry very quickly. What about the corm can they stay live until autumn? Or do they need a special care?
I am untrained about these Cyclamen.
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And I want to learn something about replant them this time. The leaves become dry very quickly. What about the corm can they stay live until autumn? Or do they need a special care?
I am untrained about these Cyclamen.
Oron, What do you mean with forma leucanthum? like albino or var. leucanthum! Because they have different lieves and corms. While the white one has more round corm, the dark one has a corm like coum it is pressed bottom and upper side. :-\
Here are the leaves of the dark pink one which Kees posted last autumn
Ibrahim,
Forma leucanthum describes only the color of the flower [albino...],
This species [syn. C. trochpternathum] is renamed again C. alpinum since 2002 and has two forms: forma alpinum -for the typical common color, and forma leucanthum.
There is a wide range of leaf patterns in this species, with more or less silvery touch, 'Christmas tree' patterns etc.
and as you have mentioned not all tubers look the same.
I find it quite an easy species to grow and one of my plants is 12 years old now, it is easily grown from seeds.
and seems to adapt to different conditions since also in its natural habitat it can be found from sea-level [ seen it in the area of Fethiye] up to about 1700m in the Antalya region.
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Yes! I too have a few Cyclamen flowering (...now that I have learnt how to grow them in my climate!).
It is still too early for C. coum and C. persicum to flower here, but I do have my first C. purpurascens seedling and an ancient C. greacum plant flowering at the moment - not much, but what cute plants and beautiful flowers!
I have had great difficulty germinating commercial seed of C. purp., but two years ago I finally had some success - one seedling out of a packet of 15 - this is the little plant flowering below.
Thanks for all the inspiring pictures - I too crave a Cyclamen "hill" or "slope". :D
Narcissus viridiflorus has also sent up its first flower of the season - what a strange, bizarre creation - "lovely" scent though... :o
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Oron, thank you very much for behave generous to your knowledge. I still know very little about on these small beauties. And all you are saying for location of this alpinum is correct. I also have seen this alpinum from Fethiye up to the Denizli. The dark one was very common in all different altitute but for forma leucanthum only in 1600 m. and only one sample :(.
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A few more cyclamen from SW/southern Turkey - in fact all 4 spring-flowering species seen during my recent trip end February, beginning March.
Firstly, Cyclamen coum and C, pseudibericum from the northern part of the Nur mountains, NE of Osmaniye. both species were growing together in Quercus woodland at the same locality as Crocus adanensis. Altitude just over 900m. Cyclamen coum also growing in great numbers at lower levels.
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Cyclamen persicum: seen in their thousands at Yilanli Kale (Snake Castle), east of Adana. It never ceases to amaze me that these plants like to grow in the dissolution hollows and joint crevices in the limestone. Not much room you would think in which to grow their tubers to any size.
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And last, but definitely not least, Cyclamen alpinum.
We saw this at two localities. The first around a ruined Genoese fort at Gedelme in the upper part of the Kemer valley, SW of Antalya. Beneath a venerable Plane tree and in the crevices of the fort there are thousands of C alpinum. This is also the locality to see abundant Galanthus peshmenii in the autumn. The second locality was on the north-facing screes at Alvan Golu, near Elmali; indeed on the more stable parts of the scree where we saw Crocus baytopiorum. The propeller-like flowers are so wonderful.......
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What a Cyclamen- dream. Just extraordinary!
Gerd
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Great pictures and wonderful plants.A delight to see.
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Beautiful. The pics of alpinum in particular are just wonderful, but the wild persicums are pretty special too!! So much more elegant than the persicums we see here.
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Dave
Wonderfull photos, just wakens up the urge to travel.... 8)
You must have driven very long distances in order to see the four species.
Thanks for showing them.
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From Osmaniye untill Elmalı, that is quite long distance. But for person who has love with these small beauties, just like unforgatable dream!
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Thanks, I did enjoy seeing these in their natural habitats. Both Cyclamen coum and C alpinum were much more variable in colour than I have shown, but I do so like the dark colour forms.
Oron, during the 2 weeks we travelled about 4000 km! Arrived Adana, went east to Osmaniye and almost to Gaziantep: then west to Tarsus, north to Pozanti; then back to the coast at Side via Konya, Alanya, NW to Korkuteli, Elmali, Finike and departed from Antalya!! It was definitely worth it despite the indifferent weather.
I may have misled folk by implying in one of my posts that there are only 4 spring-flowering Cyclamen in Turkey. Not true of course, because in addition to the four I showed, there's also the later spring flowering C intaminatum - but that occurs only in the NE in part of the Pontics - and we really would have had to travel a verrrrrry long way to see that ;D ;D
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Dave you were correct first time,intaminatum is an autumn flowering one.
its in such an awkward place that you need to go specifically to see it. Nothing much else to see there in the autumn
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Sorry, Tony, I had a complete mental aberration!! I actually meant to write C parviflorum which flowers from April onwards ::) ::)
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Howdy All,
Cyclamen mirabile is also flowering for me at the moment.
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What about 'Cyclamen rependum Sm. var. rhodense Meikle' (Endemic to Turkey)
I see this one also in Turkish flora.
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What about 'Cyclamen rependum Sm. var. rhodense Meikle' (Endemic to Turkey)
I see this one also in Turkish flora.
Ibrahim
Grey Wilson says this sub species is restricted to Rhodes and Cos. I am not doubting that it grows in Turkey but am wondering if you have a location?
It would not be surprising to find it on the mainland given how short the distance is.
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we've had good weather for three days.... but this Cyclamen pseudibericum has been out for months in all weathers....
[attach=1]
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Lovely plant Maggi. Its much hardier than was originally suggested. It's flowering in the garden here quite happily after all that snow n stuff. I'm planning to plant out lots from the seedex's and see if it will get going properly and seed about.
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Good idea, Jo. We've been sprinkling seed outside with the same idea :D
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I must get round to trying C. pseudibericum and repandum outside as I have far too many in the greenhouse and still 19 pots of seedlings in the upstairs bathroom desperate to get into bigger pots.
Two attractive leaves and some flowers.
The Cyclamen repandum with the lovely red veining in the leaf should have been white but is nearer vividum in colour.
The pink Cyclamen creticum is from 2nd generation seed from a Cyclamen Society collection. I have three pink, two with plain leaves.
The white Cyclamen creticum with very long petals is from seed from a Cyclamen Socitey collected plant.
Cyclamen pseudibericm roseum started off pink but quickly faded to white.
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Forgot the pseudibericum!
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Roma,
I love those first leaves, and the elegance of that long petaled creticum is quite striking. And of course that wonderful white pseudibericum!! 8) All beautiful.
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Have I mentioned, or can you guess that Roma has a bit of a Cyclamen passion going on?? :D
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No Maggi, I never would have guessed! ;) ;D
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No Maggi, I never would have guessed! ;) ;D
Just as well I told you then ;)
Another interesting thing about Roma.... do you know that if Tulipa sprengeri were worth it's weight in gold, that Roma would probably be more wealthy than Bill Gates? :o
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Nice creticum Roma, especially the pinkish one. Do you have to protect them against the worst weather?? I never find them hardy here
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We've got a few C. creticum growing outside.... from seed......so far so good! There's a good darkish pink one which flowered over a very long period the last couple of years. We'll see how it has done this winter..... :-\
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What about 'Cyclamen rependum Sm. var. rhodense Meikle' (Endemic to Turkey)
I see this one also in Turkish flora.
Ibrahim
Grey Wilson says this sub species is restricted to Rhodes and Cos. I am not doubting that it grows in Turkey but am wondering if you have a location?
It would not be surprising to find it on the mainland given how short the distance is.
Tony, I couldn't evidence for location of this sub species but is writen that we have in Turkey.
http://biow.tubitak.gov.tr/present/taxonForm1.jsp?taxon=3976
And this is a srious webside.
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Howdy All,
A couple of hederifoliums that I have flowering at the moment......
[attachthumb=1]
This is a seedling that I rather like the look of the leaf markings. Can't recall where this particular seed came from. Still like it though. ;D
[attachthumb=2]
[attachthumb=3]
This I received as seed of Cyclamen hederifolium var confusum, but I have no idea whether this is correct. The leaves are just emerging so I have included a pic. Definitely a different leaf to any others I have, but not sure whether that is what makes it "confusum"?
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Tony, I couldn't evidence for location of this sub species but is writen that we have in Turkey.
http://biow.tubitak.gov.tr/present/taxonForm1.jsp?taxon=3976
And this is a srious webside.
Ibrahim,
Commonly all Floras include plants from neighbourly territories (countries) - so this Cyclamen must not be found on Turkish mainland.
For instance Viola jordanii is mentioned in Flora Italiana although it occured not in Italy but in Menton/France - very close to the Italian border.
Gerd
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Howdy All,
A couple of hederifoliums that I have flowering at the moment......
(Attachment Link)
This is a seedling that I rather like the look of the leaf markings. Can't recall where this particular seed came from. Still like it though. ;D
(Attachment Link)
This I received as seed of Cyclamen hederifolium var confusum, but I have no idea whether this is correct. The leaves are just emerging so I have included a pic. Definitely a different leaf to any others I have, but not sure whether that is what makes it "confusum"?
Paul, No doubt it is hederifolium ssp. confusum, easily recognized by the thick glossy leaves and the form of the flower which is a bit more 'graecum' type meaning it doesn't have a narrow neck.
This is a much robust plant, i grow many plants of this ssp, some reach huge sizes.
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Roma,
Great plants in particularly the Pseudoibericum roseum :o
I try to grow all the repandum, creticum, balearicum, peloponnesiacum separately since they hybridize with extreme facility, but its an impossible task since pollinators reach them every where.
In my opinion most of the plants in commerce and in the seed exchange schemes are allready hybrids in particularly the white flowering forms. [many are impossible to to tell which species they are]
It is even more confusing since many good leaf forms were introduced by the Cyclamen Society and so there are many creticumes [for example] that have the leaves identical to balearicum [typical spotted] etc. etc.
Ibrahim
C. Pelop. ssp rhodense wasn't reported growing in Turkey at lest not in the last decades, it would have been probably found by now with all the Cyclamen lovers that frequent turkey every year. But as Tony allready said it isn't impossible since Kos is very close to the Turkish coast line.
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Thanks Oron. Good to know it is correct. 8)
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I have not tried creticum outside, Diane. I grow it in a greenhouse which is just frost free. I lost creticum many years ago in an unheated greenhouse with bubble plastic insulation, polystyrene round the pots and a cover over the plants at night. The other species I was growing at the time survived so I assumed it was quite tender. (this was many years ago when we got several days at a time with-10 or lower at night and below freezing during the day.) It is along time since winters have been so severe.
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I have not tried creticum outside, Diane. I grow it in a greenhouse which is just frost free. I lost creticum many years ago in an unheated greenhouse with bubble plastic insulation, polystyrene round the pots and a cover over the plants at night. The other species I was growing at the time survived so I assumed it was quite tender. (this was many years ago when we got several days at a time with-10 or lower at night and below freezing during the day.) It is along time since winters have been so severe.
Hmm, I wonder if when I said creticum, I meant cyprium? I'll need to ask Ian if I'm getting muddled... but he's asleep!
:-\
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here are some pics of Cyclamen balearicum from South France :
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....and here is Cyclamen repandum from Corsica :
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I have not tried creticum outside, Diane. I grow it in a greenhouse which is just frost free. I lost creticum many years ago in an unheated greenhouse with bubble plastic insulation, polystyrene round the pots and a cover over the plants at night. The other species I was growing at the time survived so I assumed it was quite tender. (this was many years ago when we got several days at a time with-10 or lower at night and below freezing during the day.) It is along time since winters have been so severe.
Hmm, I wonder if when I said creticum, I meant cyprium? I'll need to ask Ian if I'm getting muddled... but he's asleep!
:-\
I get worse, I really do :-[ We have tried both cyprium and creticum outside, without success so far... what we have had some success with is in growing Cyclamen repandum outside in the gravel paths.
Good to see the sun shining on your plants, Hans.... we have dull and cold weather ... again. :'(
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Maggi ,
yes -we have 24° C here -and it is T-shirt and shorts wether .....
all our Nerium,Laurus,Pelargonium and more are outsite since last weekend .
To the winterhardiness of some Cyclamen :
It is in my eyes really importent to know from where the plants came ,here some examples :
if the C.repandum comes from Croatia so you have no chance with growing them outside -they grows there on sealevel - but if they comes from the Mts. of Corsica or Sicliy you can have a good chance ( they grows there until 1100 m )
same is for C. cyprium -some populations grows near sealevel - some high in the Troodos Mts.
same for C. creticum - they grows mostly between 300 -500 m altitude -but I have found it also on 1400 m -so it is shure that they are much hardier outside .
But a other problem is also our rain and wet in winter - if it is a dry cold ( maybe with snow ) so many plants can survive ...
I have lost a lot of plants in our long and unusual cold winter ....thats life !
the safest way is always to grow the Cyclamen inside ....
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the safest way is always to grow the Cyclamen inside ....
Yes! :D I agree!
Have you truly 24 degrees? We have only 6.5.... I just went to check. :'(
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;D Maggi ,
please go to this link under my postings ( messtation ....)...
:P and 10,5 hours with sun :o
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Its interesting to hear of the problems of keeping the repandums etc pure. I have all sorts of results from the CS seedex.
They are all lovely but how to tell if they will be hardy :)
I include a picture of C balearicum Cevennes Form, which looks to me like it has repandum blood in it . Does that make it C X saundersiae ? Are the named hybrids only ever from a first cross ? They are fertile but can you call their offspring the same name. ?
I'm also delighted that one of about 12 seedlings of C persicum ' Tilebarn Karpathos ' has turned out the right colour. Most seemed to be pale pink or white. In the alpine house at Wisley last weekend ( 2nd 2 pics ) there were plants labelled 'Tilebarn Karpathos' but the flowers were pale, so should they be called by the cultivar name ?
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Jo :
I'm shure your C.balearicum/ Cevennes is a hybrid ....
If i send seeds from my plants to the Cyc. Society so I always write from where this plants comes ....
My seedling from CS seed of Tilebrn Karpathos has also dark flowers !
I'm always puzzle from where this plants came - I dont believe they are really from the island of Karpathos !
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Jo, at the moment there isn't a name for a hybrid between C. balearicum and C. repandum. C. x saundersiae is a hybrid between C. balearicum and C. rhodium peloponnesiacum. Subsequent generations can carry the hybrid name.
The Wisley plants don't fit the description of the cultivar 'Tilebarn Karpathos', so no, they shouldn't carry that name and should be labelled as just C. persicum. I have strong opinions on cultivar names being applied to cyclamen; I never use them. The original plant is the only plant which should carry the name. All offspring (unless propagated vegetatively) should be labelled as 'ex' whatever...
I'm always puzzle from where this plants came - I dont believe they are really from the island of Karpathos !
Why not, Hans?
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Tim ,
I have visit Karpathos -and I could not found only one Cyclamen ....so maybe I'm in wrong time .
But if you read the flora for Karpathos there are also not written any Cyclamen .
Crete is not so far and there is only one small area with C.persicum ....maybe they are naturalized ....
in other direction is Rhodes and there is C.persicum only a monastiri ....so I suppose that monks have plant them.
Do you know anybody who has seen Cyclamen on Karpathos ?
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We've got a few C. creticum growing outside.... from seed......so far so good! There's a good darkish pink one which flowered over a very long period the last couple of years.
I get worse, I really do :-[ We have tried both cyprium and creticum outside, without success so far... what we have had some success with is in growing Cyclamen repandum outside in the gravel paths.
I was a little surprised hearing of C creticum growing outside in the far north, and quite excited at the thought of a dark pink version, but thought you must have put a spell on them ;D ;D
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Thanks Tim, that is very interesting, and I kind of agree with you about hybrid names for seed strains. Some seed strains are quite pure but the difficulty of keeping them that way means that a lot of mixtures end up in the seed exchanges. I suppose thats why there are so few nurseries offering named cultivars. They have to flower them first and select.
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We've got a few C. creticum growing outside.... from seed......so far so good! There's a good darkish pink one which flowered over a very long period the last couple of years.
I get worse, I really do :-[ We have tried both cyprium and creticum outside, without success so far... what we have had some success with is in growing Cyclamen repandum outside in the gravel paths.
I was a little surprised hearing of C creticum growing outside in the far north, and quite excited at the thought of a dark pink version, but thought you must have put a spell on them ;D ;D
[attach=1]
ya got me! Yup, it was just wishful thinking on my part!
The repandum doing well enough outside is the nice dark pink one. Persevering with the others by seed.
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Do you know anybody who has seen Cyclamen on Karpathos ?
I haven't ever talked about cyclamen on Karpathos with anyone, Hans, but I am at the Cyclamen Society spring show at Wisley this coming Saturday, so I will ask around.
Below are some photos of a few cyclamen flowering here at the moment:
1. A dark flowered form of C. persicum.
2. C. rhodium peloponnesiacum.
3. As above.
4. C. rhodium vividum.
5. C. repandum from Italy.
6. As above.
7. As above.
C. repandum from the island of Krk (Croatia) is not quite in flower yet. I'm presuming that this is where you've seen it in Croatia, Hans. I've seen some huge drifts of it in the north of the island. There are populations further south in the Paklenica National Park too. Have you seen those?
More photos tomorrow, weather and light allowing.
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Hans,
I love the leaf markings on that first repandum of yours (the one with the pure white flowers). Great silver shading to it. Tim's second last one is also pretty speccy.
Thanks for all the wonderful pics everyone.
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I haven't ever talked about cyclamen on Karpathos with anyone, Hans, but I am at the Cyclamen Society spring show at Wisley this coming Saturday, so I will ask around.
C. repandum from the island of Krk (Croatia) is not quite in flower yet. I'm presuming that this is where you've seen it in Croatia, Hans. I've seen some huge drifts of it in the north of the island. There are populations further south in the Paklenica National Park too. Have you seen those?
Tim :
It's would be great if you could ask around for Cyclamen on Karpathos
Yes -I have seen Cyclamen on Krk ( growing with Helleborus ) and I saw it also Paklenica National Parc .
I found C. repandum also growing in Montenegro .
From friends I know that these plants grows also on the coastline of Croatia.
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Hans,
I love the leaf markings on that first repandum of yours (the one with the pure white flowers). Great silver shading to it.
Paul ,
thank you for your interest :D
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Some shipwrecked Cyclamen hederifolium growing in woods in the Taigetos mountains. They were replanted safely away from the stream they had washed into after the pics were taken. The battery is a AA and was included for scale. Does anyone know how long it would take tubers to reach this size?
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From experience of hederifolium in cultivation, I would estimate about 40 to fifty years growth to reach that dinner plate size. We were given a couple of plants that size over twenty years ago that were fifty years old then. They may grow a bit faster in the wild, I don't know... but they would be venerable plants for sure.
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Thanks Maggi- it must be a joy to see a plant of that size in full flower- I guess the ones we found have been lucky not to have been scoffed by wild boar :)
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thankfully very few wild boar in these parts! :o
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Thanks Maggi- it must be a joy to see a plant of that size in full flower- I guess the ones we found have been lucky not to have been scoffed by wild boar :)
I guess that's how they got the name "Sowbread",
cheers
fermi
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Tim
Great plants,
I couldn't not notice the silver centered leaf of graecum behind?
and do you have there a repandum with variegated leaves?
The vividum with serrated petals is beautiful!!
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Maggi and Simon , C. hederifolium will reach that size tuber in about 20 years here in my garden, there are many here , as it selfsows everywhere , no special diet given.
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Maggi and Simon , C. hederifolium will reach that size tuber in about 20 years here in my garden, there are many here , as it selfsows everywhere , no special diet given.
Wow! Otto, are you SURE you didn't make them any cake? ::)
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Simon
I have seen lots of hederifolium dug up by wild boar in the pelopennese which were huge.They were growing in very wet conditions on an open north facing hillside.I also saw a mother with piglets which was good.
Here are some of my various repandum. Sorry they are a bit scruffy but they sit neglected under the bench
Cyclamen repandum peloponnesiacum peloponnesiacum
Cyclamen repandum peloponnesiacum vividum
Cyclamen repandum repandum from Italy
Cyclamen repandum peloponnesiacum peloponnesiacum leaves
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Tim
Great plants,
I couldn't not notice the silver centered leaf of graecum behind?
and do you have there a repandum with variegated leaves?
The vividum with serrated petals is beautiful!!
Hello Oron, the plant with the silver centre on the leaf is a really nice form of hederifolium. I think the variegated plant you refer to is one of my C. parviflorum going over. Quite a few of my stock plants look like this at the moment; they have been moved from one of the glasshouses to a polytunnel and whenever I move plants like this, often to a glasshouse or polytunnel just a few feet away from the one they were in, a completely new cultivation regime has to be established. Next season they will be fine.
I like the rhodium vividum too; that plant has the most intense red flowers of all of my vividum.
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Maggi and Simon , C. hederifolium will reach that size tuber in about 20 years here in my garden, there are many here , as it selfsows everywhere , no special diet given.
Wow! Otto, are you SURE you didn't make them any cake? ::)
Maggi , do you think I should feed them Hot Cross Buns as an Easter Diet ?to make them obese .
A Happy Easter to you and Ian .
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Well remembering how big mine were when i planted them, i think i need to get the Tomorite on order!
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Tim :
It's would be great if you could ask around for Cyclamen on Karpathos
Hans, I asked a few people about Cyclamen persicum on Karpathos whilst I was at the show on Saturday, and it does definitely grow on the island. It was seen growing around a church on the island in 1991 by a three man team from the Cyclamen Society on a field trip. Peter Moore (Tilebarn Nursery and current Society President) was one of the team members and he did say that it was likely that C. persicum had been introduced to the island for medicinal purposes and did not occur naturally on Karpathos.
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Tim ,
Thank you for asking about this plants .....this is what I have suppesed that this Cyclamen grows not naturally on this island ....
....and I have not looked near any churches for any Cyclamen.....
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Hans,
In some cases visiting a church could be particularly promising! ;)
Gerd
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Gerd :
you should know my motto :
"Die Berge von unten,
die Kirchen von außen
und die Wirtshäuser von innen !"
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Gerd :
you should know my motto :
die Kirchen von außen
Hans,
the churches from the outside -
and why did you miss Cyclamen persicum - I guess they aren't grown inside? ???
Gerd
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Here's a weird one..came to me as "White Cyclamen pseudo-ibericum"..the leaves say pseudo-ibericum but the flower isn't like the C. pseudo-ibericum roseum I have had. The basal blotch looks a bit more like C. libanoticum..it certainly is the most "boxy" flowered C. pseudo-ibericum I've seen. Oh and it's only just come out, a month or so after both of those species.(as comparison I have C.creticum and C. rhodense out)
Thoughts?
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Mark, your plant looks like a cross between C. libanoticum and C. pseudibericum known as x schwarzii.
The plants I have owned always seem to have a C. pseudibericum leaf and a C. libanoticunm flower (sort of), never the other way round...don't know why that is.
The one remaining plant I have is in flower now too, even though the other two species have already finished flowering.
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Possibly, the irony is that I have got seed of the hybrid several times, it usually turns out to be pseudo-ibericum!
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That's interesting....maybe it's just the initial cross that gives those characteristics....not future offspring.
I shall have a look at my plant tomorrow to see if it's set seed.
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the flowers on several of my Cyclamen pseudibericum ssp roseum (the ones that are almost white) look very much like those of C. libanoticum. its easy to see they are closely related.
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the cyclamen purpurascens have been out about a month now and the C. colchicum have now started
Cyclamen purpurascens
Cyclamen colchicum
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Tony,
I have purpurascens flowering here at the moment too! ;D
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Terrible day here today, windy and very heavy showers. Every time I start to do something in the garden the heavens open. According to last night's weather forecast our current lousy weather is being driven by the Jet Stream which is currently located to the South of Great Britain whereas it should be well to the north of us. Result = regular Atlantic lows being blown in. This was the reason for our terrible summer last year so the omens are not good. This information from the Met Office who, only a couple of weeks ago, were promising a record summer this year ::)
The plants are obviously feeling like autumn. Here's a pic of Cyclamen hederifolium, taken today in an off-shower moment. I had these in a pot last year and they didn't do too well so decided to plant them out. Yes, I've seen the weed.
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The result of the UK's southerly Jet Stream was a trough of Low Pressure from the Baltic Sea to the Balkans- boy did we have some spectacular storms last week!
If your Cyclamen get confused enough maybe you'll get a double flowering from them, David.
Flowering now and rather unexpected as I had thought it was C.hederifolium is what I think may be C.purpurascens. The leaf is quite grey above, but the shape seems right.
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Definitely purpurascens, Simon - no auricles (little ear-like sticky-out bits) at the bases of the petals such as you see in hederifolium and other species.
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Thanks, Martin. I'll correct its label tomorrow. :)
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Definitely purpurascens, Simon - no auricles (little ear-like sticky-out bits) at the bases of the petals such as you see in hederifolium and other species.
Agreed.
Besides, the coloring of C. purpurascens' flowers is distinctive combined with the proportions of the flower.
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Thanks also, Rodger. It's the first time they have flowered for me.
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My first (and most interesting) Cyclamen hederifolium flowers - obtained from
a Dutch Cyclamen specialist - the label says 'purper'. I don't know if this is the cultivar name or Dutch for purple.
It is the darkest hederifolium I ever saw.
Gerd
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I said in another message that the flower form & coloration of Cyclamen purpurascens were distinctive, but then I remembered C. pseudibericum, which has a similar shape & color arrangement. But since Cyc. pseud. is an early spring bloomer, I am still pretty sure Simon's plant is Cyc. purp.
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Gerd,
Excellent colour!! Are you self pollinating to see whether the progeny will end up the same colour? You could develop the "Gerd Strain" of dark hederifolium if you're lucky! ;D
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Gerd, did you get the dark purple from Jan Bravenboer?
I have two pots, about 55 seedlings of his dark purple hederifolium. I have a few flower buds showing. Another 2-3 weeks I should see my first flower.
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Paul,
Thank you. Have a look at Guff's message. The pollination work is already done.
Guff,
Yes, you are right. I believe you can expect a grand display of colour!
Did Jan mention a cultivar name?
Gerd
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Gerd,
Fair enough, if yours came from Jan. Hopefully Guff's all end up that colour as well..... such a strong colour en mass would be fantastic. Way darker than anything I have ever seen here in a hederifolium. 8)
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Gerd, Jans thread about the dark purple hederifolium.
http://www.gardenbuddies.com/forum/messages/64189/1280885.html
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Thank you Guff
- it seems there is some offspring from the original plants which is darker than my plant - Jan made a hint about new darker colors when I met him at the Galanthus Gala at Oirlich.
Gerd
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Jan made a hint about new darker colors when I met him at the Galanthus Gala at Oirlich.
Darker yet?!! OOOH, I like the sound of that.... the photos on the link Guff gave are beautiful.
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My first (and most interesting) Cyclamen hederifolium flowers - obtained from
a Dutch Cyclamen specialist - the label says 'purper'. I don't know if this is the cultivar name or Dutch for purple.
It is the darkest hederifolium I ever saw.
Gerd
Hi Gerd,
purper is just Dutch for purple (not a cultivar name)
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Thank you Wim!
Gerd
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Gerd, your welcome.
Isn't that a wonderful color Maggi, I hope I get a few that dark.
I was looking through past pages about coum "Lake Effect". Ellen is in upstate New York. Her web site is Seneca Hill Perennials, she has it listed and some info about it.
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I will keep my fingers crossed that you DO get some as dark as that, Guff! The more folks growing such a pretty colour break the better, eh? I can just imagine a few of those deep purples growing in a sea of white.... or vice versa...... how beautiful a combination would THAT be? 8)
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You're welcome, Gerd
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Maggi, that would be pretty. The dark purple hederifolium were started around August 28th 2008, I was surprised to see buds forming. I figured it would be next fall before I saw a flower.
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We have Cyclamen purpurascens flowering in the garden but I was very surprised to find this in flower. The leaves have been up since June and it came into flower at the beginning of this month. I can only assume that it is Cyclamen cilicium, but at the beginning of July? We also have a Cyclamen intaminatum in flower in the greenhouse.
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Let's hope they are not harbingers of doom- pretty though they are!
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We have Cyclamen purpurascens flowering in the garden but I was very surprised to find this in flower. The leaves have been up since June and it came into flower at the beginning of this month. I can only assume that it is Cyclamen cilicium, but at the beginning of July? We also have a Cyclamen intaminatum in flower in the greenhouse.
Not cilicium, David, but hederifolium. Cilicium is another species that, like purpurascens, does not have auricles (ear-like lobes) at the bases of the petals. Hederifolium does (along with africanum, graecum, cyprium and rohflsianum). The leaves are quite rounded for hederifolium but that's not so unusual. The first hederifolium flowers will often appear in July, especially after heavy rain following a hot spell.
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Heres a closeup picture of one of my Purpurascens flowering indoors. I have two plants outside that have flower buds, maybe another week or two.
Does the above plant/flower have a Lily of the Valley scent?
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Heres a closeup picture of one of my Purpurascens flowering indoors. I have two plants outside that have flower buds, maybe another week or two.
Does the above plant/flower have a Lily of the Valley scent?
The leaves on David's cyclamen do look a bit purpurascens-ish but to me the flowers don't. They look more like hederifolium with auricles on the petal bases (though it's not totally clear on the photo). As you suggest, the scent is always the real giveaway with purpurascens. But as David says he has purpurascens flowering in the garden, I assumed he'd recognise it if this plant was that, especially by the scent. Still looks like a round-leaved hederifolium to me. Usually the earliest flowers come before the leaves but atypical plants can produce early leaves with early flowers. Of course I could be wrong, especially if the plant is lily-of-the-valley scented, in which case you're right.
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Still looks like a round-leaved hederifolium to me.
I agree Martin. I am presently growing a batch of round-leafed hederifolium from CS seed. Quite a surprise to me but as you say given leaf variability in hederifolium one can expect almost anything.
johnw
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Not realising the flower differentiation, I would have thought David's pic was of a purpurascens myself. The leaves and habit certainly look like it.
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David, I hope you don't mind that I resized your picture for a closer look. If so I will delete it, or Maggi can.
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Not realising the flower differentiation, I would have thought David's pic was of a purpurascens myself. The leaves and habit certainly look like it.
Like Paul, I'm for purpurascens - forms with well-marked auricles occur (Grey-Wilson).
Gerd
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Not realising the flower differentiation, I would have thought David's pic was of a purpurascens myself. The leaves and habit certainly look like it.
Like Paul, I'm for purpurascens - forms with well-marked auricles occur (Grey-Wilson).
Gerd
I think we need David to get down on his hands and knees and have a quick sniff for flower scent. The enlarged pic is useful (especially given my eyesight) but it's still difficult to say for sure if it's a hederifolium or a slightly auricled purpurascens. The leaves certainly do have a purpurascens-ish look to them, and the flower does look a little more purpurascens-ish in close-up, but doesn't shout purpurascens.
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Paul, if it could shout it would be saying 'get me an umberella!'. I doubt if there will be much scent this morning after last nights storm but I will give it a sniff later.
All our purpurescens have plain, dark leaves. Is it possible for these to seed a marbled leaf like this?
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My first initial reaction was hederifolium, because of the flower shape. The timing is OK, I always have hederifolium in flower in July (as Martin says, usually two weeks after heavy rain in June). But I did ponder whether there were two tubers in the picture.
However, the leaves don't shout hederifolium, not particularly because of the shape, (although they would be unusual for a hed), but hederifolium doesn't produce its leaves until later in the season, by which time you would expect more flowers for the size of plant producing this quantity of leaves. The leaves also look rather thick and glossy, a feature typical of C hed confusum but that is certainly a later flower.
So after pondering it several times, and seeing the close up I come back to thinking it must be purpurascens. Something about the way the dark purple blends at the edge of the corolla also looks distinctly purpurascens and distinctly not hederifolium. Has it ever been dormant? hederifolium will always have a rest, up to two months, but purpurascens doesn't really have a dormancy, and will often keep its old leaves while producing new, and may still have unripe fruits on the plant at the same time as new flowers. David, is there any sign of fruits as that could also help id.
I doubt if there will be much scent this morning after last nights storm but I will give it a sniff later. All our purpurescens have plain, dark leaves. Is it possible for these to seed a marbled leaf like this?
Yes, these marbled leaves are very typical of purpurascens and I am sure they could arise from plain leaved parents.
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I also would think it is a c. purpurascens - here you can see a scottish one with similar flowers.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2007/150807/log.html
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In the interests of science I have just put my swimming trunks on (no, not really) and been outside for another look. I don't have any known hederifolium in flower yet but do have some known purpurascens to compare it with, and Chris Grey-Wilsons book.
Tuber - I did a scrape of the soil by the tuber, not too much, and it is hairy
Scent - non detectable but after last nights rain I am not too surprised
Auricle - visible but not pronounced. My known purpurascens don't have any visible auricle
Petals - flattened compared with the erect petals of my known purpurascens and Ian's as shown in the link given by Hans.
Buds - there are many flower buds beneath the leaves waiting to come out.
The only other cyclamen I have in this area of garden are purpurascens and cilicium. The nearest hederifolium would be some 10m away.
For information I include a picture of one of my 'known' C. purpurascens.
Having just opened the picture I would observe that the buds of the query cyclamen are nestled below the leaves whilst the buds of the known purpurascens are erect and well above the leaves.
Is it possible for hederifolium and purpurascens to hybridise?
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David, hederifolium and purpurascens are unlikely to hybridise. They've not closely related species and there have been no substantiated cases of the two crossing that I'm aware of (though I'm not 100% up to date with the latest news in cyclamen circles - really must find time to read my Cyclamen Society journals properly instead of skimming through them).
Seed from the hederifoliums could find its way 10 meters across the garden. Squirrels will take seed pods and drop seeds along the way, and ants will carry individual seeds a long way, for their sticky honey-like coating.
Looking at the pic again, it could equally be either an atypical hederifolium or an atypical purpurascens. Diane's questions about leaf dormancy and seed pods could help. But I think trying again to check for scent would be the clincher. Could you pick a flower and take it indoors? That might bring out the scent. Some hederifolium can be lightly scented but don't usually have that very strong scent that purpurascens has.
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David, hederifolium and purpurascens are unlikely to hybridise.
Martin - I have been awaiting that hybrid for sometime but have never seen a mention in a CS Journal. It would be a valuable cross.
I am now veering toward purpurascens for David's plant as the leaves look like last year's and on second look the auricles are not that pronounced.
C. purpurascens leaves here are still looking fine with all the rain and cool temperatures and I expect to see flowers anytime now. C. purpurascens can throw wonderfully silvered leaves but the fully silvered ones are not terribly persistent in the garden.
johnw
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I'm also starting to think it might be purpurascens. In the close-up the auricles don't look as pronounced as you'd expect for hederifolium and the mouth of the flower generally looks more like purpurascens, although from a distance it still looks quite a lot like hederifolium.
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I'm also 95+% sure it is purpurascens from all aspects of flower and leaves and timing.
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Well, folks, thank you for your interest and comments. It seems that you unanimously go for a hesitant purpurascens from pictures and my descriptions. Interestingly, I was going the other way towards hederifolium mainly based on the aspect of the petals and buds. I will bring a flower indoors, probably from one of the new buds when they open, as Martin suggests and see if that helps any.
Whatever its name it is an attractive Cyclamen but I won't offer seed to the exchange!
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Heres a picture of a Purpurascens corm/tuber. It is half ball shaped, and has several floral trucks growing/forming. This is growing indoors under lights, so the leaves are running a tad. I will take a picture of one that is growing outside later. The leaves are more clumped, like David's picture above.
Hederifolium corm/tuber is more flat/blackish in color, maybe even indented in the center. If covered with soil, it will have roots all over the top of the corm/tuber.
David mentions 'hairy' above? Are these roots he is seeing?
Back in December I borrowed Cyclamen By C. Grey-Wilson from my local library. I recall it said Purpurascens and Hederifolium had the same gene number, and could cross. It was a matter that they don't flower at the same time in nature. I made a note that I would save some Purpurascens pollen and store it in the freezer. This is from my memory, I don't have the book.
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Yes, hederifolium and purpurascens do have the same chromosome count but Grey-Wilson says that even between species with the same chromosome numbers there is still an incompatibility barrier to crossing. Of course that's not to say it's impossible. It's always worthwhile investigating these siuations involding possible hybridisation just in case.
One thing that threw me (and Diane mentioned wondering of there were two plants in the clump) is that the topmost flower in David's picture looks more like hederifolium and the lower picture (the one that's been enlarged) looks more like purpurascens. I can't decide if it's just the way the light's catching and enhancing the auricles on the top flower.
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I'm not clear what you mean, Martin. I posted one picture only of the query Cyclamen. It has two flowers, the top flower being newer than the bottom flower. Guff Kindly enlarged the lower, older flower (I don't mind, Guff). In real life the two flowers look identical other than that the bottom one is slightly more lax and faded. There is also the seed head forming of a third flower that has just gone over but, as I said earlier, there are lots of buds beneath the leaves.
I don't want to disturb the corm too much at this stage but I'm pretty certain that there is only one corm.
Guff's picture of his purpurascens tuber seems to be much more polished and rounded than the one I am showing although mine is sitting in rather wet soil from last nights rain. C. G-W appears to indicate that purpurascens tubers also have roots from the side but doesn't show a picture.I believe the 'hairs' to be roots
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the topmost flower in David's picture looks more like hederifolium and the lower picture flower (the one that's been enlarged) looks more like purpurascens. I can't decide if it's just the way the light's catching and enhancing the auricles on the top flower.
Sorry David, I meant to write "lower flower", not "lower picture".
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Top flower
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Top flower
Thanks for enlarging that one too. When you see it in close-up, it does look like the light is catching the tips of the petal bases and making them look more auriculate than they actually are. Looking more and more like purpurascens. David, does the tuber have a dip in the middle with the flower buds coming from this central dip? Hederifolium tubers generally develope that kind of a shallow depression in the centre of the top with age, but purpurascens tubers tend to stay rounded and un-hollowed.
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Martin, I am quite happy to accept the purpurascens name for the plant. At this point in time I don't want to disturb it too much by excavating any more but I will try to remeber to look when it dies back a bit.
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David,
Does your plant go completely dormant? I find here that my purpursacens are pretty much evergreen (they go off a bit is spring, but always have at least some leaves on them), while the hederifoliums are totally dormant for a couple of months, then flowers, then leaves. The flower stems on the hederifolium go horizontally, then have a 90' angle before heading upwards, whilst the purpurascens head straight up from the tuber.... just so many differences between those I have of both species.
Seeing the discussion here about how similar they are and how hard to tell apart, I am wondering why mine behave so differently to anyone else's? There is a texture and shape to my purpurascens that is totally different to any of the hederifoliums I have ever seen, plus the evergreen versus complete dormancy.... adds up to me here not being able to mix them up by any stretch of the imagination. Do mine here behave THAT differently to everyone else's?
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Paul
This discussion relates to just one plant. We have both purpurascens and hederifolium that behave conventionally but this is a self seeder (I think) that has been sent to confuse us (me!).
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Paul,
I would say that C. purpurascens is an evergreen species as well as C. colchicum.
There might be a slight difference between individual plants but at least down here at the moment they are in flower with most plants replacing old leaves with new ones.
I had a few cases that plants got dormant for a whole year after a very hot wether, but this is quite rare for me.
My C. colchicum are drying out last year's leaves, having already many flower buds and new leaves coming up at the same time.
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Gerd, here is one of my pots of the dark purple hederifolium, at what stage did you start to notice the color change to the purple? I did see more buds popping up when I watered the other day. So looking forward to seeing it open.
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at what stage did you start to notice the color change to the purple?
At first the flowers are surprisingly pale and I suspected an usual colored hederifolium. The surprise appeared later - so I hope you'll have the same kind of flowers in a few days!
- see pics -
Gerd
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Gerd, thanks for posting the pictures and info, such a nice color. Maybe by next weekend mine will be open, I will post a picture when it does.
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This have been very educational for me so thanks a lot for the comments You all have given about David´s plant.
I hope to show my own plants later when I visit them.
All the best
Joakim
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Hi all ,
here is a pic from yesterday from a real strange Cyc. purpurascens -it has a strange behavior ::)
the petals are always horizontal !
On beginning of flowering I wait always ....but now after one week still the same :-\
I dont remeber on the flowers on last year - but I will watch for next years ....
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Hans,
I bought a Cyclamen persicum a few years ago because it had all it's petals downward-facing, looking almost like a Galanthus in form. It did that for the whole season of flowering, but the next year was perfectly normal. Why it did it I have no idea, but I wonder if your purpurascens has the same confusion this year?
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Nice pictures Hans, what camera, super clear?
My two Purpurascens planted outside are starting to flower.
Gerd, what do you think, will it get dark?
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Nice pictures Hans, what camera, super clear?
Thanks Guff - my camera is a Nikon D 50 - I'm very satisfied !
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Gerd, what do you think, will it get dark?
Guff, in that state my hederifolium looks pretty much as yours do - unfortunenately I can't compare it with a 'normal' colored one because there are no buds and flowers - so you have to wait to be sure. It will be only a short time.
Gerd
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Gerd,
a wonderful dark one!
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Hans,
an unusual plant. It remembers a bit at C.trochopterantum/C.alpinum.
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Gerd, thanks.
It's interesting to see how the flower progresses, latest one. Would be cool to do a time lapse video.
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I don't think it's going to get much darker. It will be another 3 weeks before I see another flower open on a different plant, crossing fingers.
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I don't think it's going to get much darker. It will be another 3 weeks before I see another flower open on a different plant, crossing fingers.
Guff, Did you compare the color with the tone of 'Ruby Glow' ?
Your flower seems to be at least darker than those of 'normal' hederifolium'!
Gerd
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Here are two pics of a plant which I received as Cyclamen purpurascens album.
Is this really ' album' or are there plants which are totally white?
Please note the faint pink tinge around the base of the petals and the lines!
If I remember well Hans J. told me that his plant has the same coloration -
did you Hans?
Gerd
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Gerd ,
I have one plant which is pure white ( bought from a nursery in England )....but I have some seedlings ( from a strain which is white flowering) and they are mixed -from pure white until such plant as you have show
The problem with this white flowering purpurascens that they make never seeds ...I try it since many years ...
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Gerd / Hans - I got seed of the white purpurascens from the Cyclamen Society last distribution. No seeds have sprouted to date whilst other purpurascens already have 1 cm corms.
The sun came out late yesterday - that would make about 2.125 days with sun this month. Last evening and this morning very dense fog, the same overcast skies as of 10:30 am. Saturday will make 7 weeks of this weather. Rather green here.
johnw
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John
I'm sorry to report that my seeds of Cyc. purp. album from Cyc. Soc. sown before some years has all normal flowers ...
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Thank you Hans. Waiting for the flowers of a second one which was called 'alba'.
John, Unfortunately I never tested seeds of white purpurascens.
Gerd
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I have Cyclamen purpurascens album flowering for the first time from Cyclamen Society seed sown in December 2007. Like yours Gerd it is pink inside and has pink veins.
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I just checked the label in the empty white purpurascens pot. It says CS06-94 so it must have been a free packet of old seed.
johnw
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I have Cyclamen purpurascens album flowering for the first time from Cyclamen Society seed sown in December 2007. Like yours Gerd it is pink inside and has pink veins.
Less than 2 years - this is a good result! The flowers don't differ.
Thank you Roma!
Gerd
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Gerd, I agree it's darker then most normal pink hederifolium. Most of my pink's are a muddy pink, but I do have a few real pink ones in my bed. Getting excited about my hederifolium bed. A couple pictures, no flowers open, but lots of buds popping up.
Does the white purpurascens have the same scent as the normal pink form?
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Gerd, I agree it's darker then most normal pink hederifolium. Most of my pink's are a muddy pink, but I do have a few real pink ones in my bed. Getting excited about my hederifolium bed. A couple pictures, no flowers open, but lots of buds popping up.
Does the white purpurascens have the same scent as the normal pink form?
Your hederifolium look very promisingly - with or without the dark ones. I am pretty sure there will be some better dark ones around anytime soon - I remember what Jan Bravenboer told me.
Don't know whether the white purpurascens is scented or not because my olfactory sense became nearly absent - unfortunately didn't ask my wife to test it.
We have to ask Hans Joschko who will read this hopefully!
Gerd
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Hi Guff and Gerd ,
I had test my C.purpurascens album today for fragrance ...the is no difference to the normal flowering plants -sometimes more -sometimes less !
here is a pic from today from all my white flowering ( mas o meno )
they are partly bought and partly grown from seeds ....the problem with this plants is they make fery few fertile fruits .... :'(
enjoy
8)
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here are some pics from Cyc. colchicum - they have also really different colors of flowers .....and somtimes also plain leaves !
Cyc. colchicum different colors
Cyc. colchicum dark ( grown from seeds ex J.Bravenboer )
Cyc. colchicum light and with plain leaves ( grown from seeds ex Caucasus )
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here some different colors of Cyc. purpurascens :
Cyc. purpurascens 'Himbeer' ( grown from seeds ex Savoyen )
Cyc. purpurascens ( this seeds comes from C.S. -received as C.purpurascens album )
Cyc. purpurascens dark ( grown from seeds from a friend )
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Hans - A magnificent stand of white purpurascens. Also some of those pink purpurascens are a unique shade - quite a breakthrough in the colour department.
I love the C. colchicum leaves. Is this species not reputed to be tender?
johnw - sunny and +20c
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Hans, very nice.
First flower open in my Hederifolium bed, just happens to be a muddy pink.
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John ,
I grow my C.colchicum in winter in my greenhouse -it is too much risk for me .
But I know from some friends in Germany they grow it outside -without any problems .
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here are some pics from Cyc. colchicum - they have also really different colors of flowers .....and somtimes also plain leaves !
Cyc. colchicum different colors
Cyc. colchicum dark ( grown from seeds ex J.Bravenboer )
Cyc. colchicum light and with plain leaves ( grown from seeds ex Caucasus )
Hans,
Jan Bravenboer seems to be a good source for dark flowering Cyclamen. I never
expected this red with C. colchicum.
Congratulations for the fine white purpurascens!
Gerd
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Cyclamen graecum flowering indoors. These are from seed.
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Wonderful Cyclamen everyone. Hans, that is a fantastic display of the white purpurascens. Well done. Also interesting to see the different colours in the C. colchicum. I've only ever seen dark pink before. And they all look so beautifully grown. 8)
Thanks everyone.
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Paul - thank you :D
I will try to produce seeds from this dark flowering colchicum !
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Gerd, what do you think about this one? Still a few more days, can't wait.
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Guff,
Difficult to decide - but looks fine. Hope dies last! ???
Gerd
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The following photos show my first Cyclamen graecum in flower this year. It is ssp anatolicum and the plant originated from Monte Smith Rhodes.It is often said that some plants from this area are more like ssp candicum which is found in Crete, certainly the seed pods are similar in that they usually only contain two or three seeds. Looking closely at this plant I think the lines on the petals are reminiscent of C. intaminatum.
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The following photos show my first Cyclamen graecum in flower this year. It is ssp anatolicum and the plant originated from Monte Smith Rhodes.
Nice plants, Melvyn, surprisingly non-auriculate for C graecum - is that typical of the Monte Smith plants?
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Super pix, Melvyn. Admiring the dry tawny leaves in the background, I realised this was old cyclamen foliage..... do you always leave the old foliage ? I would be inclined to remove it once it had died back, in case it got damp and harboured moulds :-\
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I wondered if someone would comment on the old foliage Maggi...... I regret to say the answer is that I have only just got around to cleaning the remaining leaves of some Cyclamen and it was then that I noticed this plant in flower. Thinking it would look more natural I decided to leave them there but once the photos were taken the leaves were removed, you are of course correct, leaving them on invites all sorts of problems.
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Melvyn,
Very nice flowers. Very, very nice. You're right that the veining is reminiscent of intaminatum. I quite like the strong white and pink of the flowers too..... I have only ever seen (in person at least) pure white or pink flowers on graecum, never your combination. Great stuff!! 8)
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Melvyn / Maggi - I am surprised to see such nicely dried up old dead leaves n your graecum. In this climate if we do not remove old & dying leaves under glass they almost immediately get covered in botrytis and this can easily spread to tender new growth. Outdoors the cyclamen must fend for themselves, slugs probably clean up the old leaves or they rot very quickly.
johnw - still +25c at 19:45.
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Melvyn
Beautiful plant, quite early for the graecum to flower but probably dew to lower temperatures,
Mt. Smith's population does look as an intermediate form of the two ssp. the auricale that spreads up as in candicum but still i find that the 'puffy , baloony' form of the flower on a short pedical are a ssp. anatolicum characteristics.
This morning C. colchicum in full bloom in my refrigerator, enjoying 20c while out side it is 34c with 45% humidity.
I find that the flowers of this species are the longest to last, two to four weeks for each flower!!! but very shy to set seeds...
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This morning C. colchicum in full bloom in my refrigerator, enjoying 20c while out side it is 34c with 45% humidity.
I find that the flowers of this species are the longest to last, two to four weeks for each flower!!! but very shy to set seeds...
Oron,
It seems the Cyclamen feels fine inside the fridge. Under my conditions C. colchicum normally develolps lots of seeds (last year was an exception).
Maybe for pollination some air movement and less humidity is needed.
Gerd
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surprisingly non-auriculate for C graecum - is that typical of the Monte Smith plants?
Diane it would not be fair to say that the plants are typical of the Monte Smith cyclamen population, the plants, both leaves and flowers, are quite variable and as is often the case the plants growing in the open on the escarpement have much better leaves than those growing under the pine trees lower down by the main road. Its always a good site to visit in the autumn with other goodies such as Crocus tournefortii and Spiranthes spiralis flowering with the cyclamen.
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This morning C. colchicum in full bloom in my refrigerator, enjoying 20c while out side it is 34c with 45% humidity.
I find that the flowers of this species are the longest to last, two to four weeks for each flower!!! but very shy to set seeds...
Maybe for pollination some air movement and less humidity is needed.
Yes, installation of a small fan in Oron's refrigerator would probably be very good for the plants. If you can find one, a small "muffin fan" that runs off ordinary mains electrical current would probably be more convenient than one salvaged from a computer and needing a special power supply.
I've noticed that virtually all orchid houses have numerous fans running at all times so the air is never still.
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Couple pictures.
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Gerd , Rodger thanks,
Actually there is a fan installed at the upper part of the refrig in order to create air circulation, but probably it isn't enough for C. colchicum since the different coums i grow in it set seeds freely.
Never the less they all seem to feel quite happy in it , some hot days i wish i could fit in too... ;)
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Color variation in Cyclamen purpurascens -
Unfortunately my purpurascens don't flower satisfactorily - this means one flower here, another at a second plant and never in a bunch like C. hederifolium does.
Otherwise the great variation in leaf coloration is a good compensation.
My favorite pattern is what I describe here as ' middle silver to white '
Gerd
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My first two greenhouse based Cyclamen showing early flowers with only the barest minimum of water so far.
Cyclamen intaminatum
Cyclamen cilicum.
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Good flowers, David, more will follow soon!!
Gerd your garden looks like Lago di Garda woods with all this variability in the leaves 8)
Grown from seeds in 2005 and after two years in the open garden I have the first
flowers on these Cyclamen graecum. They survived -24°C last winter!!!
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Grown from seeds in 2005 and after two years in the open garden I have the first
flowers on these Cyclamen graecum. They survived -24°C last winter!!!
Very impressive Thomas !! :o
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Color variation in Cyclamen purpurascens -
Unfortunately my purpurascens don't flower satisfactorily - this means one flower here, another at a second plant and never in a bunch like C. hederifolium does.
Gerd
[/quote]
Gerd - And here is another variation, silver with green a Xmas tree centre.
I thought with such a cool summer here purpurascens would not flower so well but they have. Maybe next summer they will be shy.
johnw
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And here is another variation, silver with green a Xmas tree centre.
I thought with such a cool summer here purpurascens would not flower so well but they have. Maybe next summer they will be shy.
johnw
Wow, John, that's a great variation for C. purpurascens! Is it flowering size yet?
cheers
fermi
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a couple of cyclamen in flower at the moment
Cyclamen rohlfsianum
Cyclemen graecum
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Tony,
Lovely! (nice leaf on your purp too, John). I'm fascinated to see the flowers on your rohlfsianum. So different to mine here, which have petals which almost spiral (a feature I must admit I have always loved, as it is so much more pronounced than any other species that I grow). I'd always thought it was standard for the species, but I guess it is just one of the flower forms. The exserted stamen really do change the shape of the flower to the eye, don't they. Very, very cool plants!! Thanks.
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This is a different Dark Purple Hederifolium flower then the one I had posted on the 14th. I had watered with some ferts after taking the picture and it ruined the flower for some reason.
In the second picture to the right/front is a light pink Hederifolium. Also that is a coum leaf from another pot behind the Dark Purple Hederifolium flower.
A couple more pictures of my cyclamen bed.
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And here is another variation, silver with green a Xmas tree centre.
I thought with such a cool summer here purpurascens would not flower so well but they have. Maybe next summer they will be shy.
johnw
Wow, John, that's a great variation for C. purpurascens! Is it flowering size yet?
cheers
fermi
Fermi - The seed from the CS was just sown this past March and the tubers are only 3/8" across. The hederifoliums from the same sowing are already 5/8" and much lustier.
johnw
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I thought this was a rather unusual flower shape for C. purpurascens.
johnw
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Until now there are no flowering Cyclamen - but today I had to replant an older Cyclamen rohlfsianum in my garden. It grew in a rectangular corner of a trough, I was amazed how perfectly the tuber has used the space. ;)
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Not the dark black purple, but still nice.
Dark Purple Hederifolium
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since some day I see on my fresh cyclamen leaves that they are damaged .....now this morning I found this beast :o
this is what we call "Frostspanner"
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So... Hans... is it now what we call "Dead"? ;D Or did you move it on to somewhere it wasn't going to matter to lose a few Cyclamen leaves?
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Paul ::)
I'm shure this animal will never more visit my Cyclamen again
;D ;D ;D
I have just looked - this animals like not all Cyclamen leaves .....
C. purpurascens + rohlfsianum are not touched - they prefer :
C. coum,graecum .....
for the other I can not say -they flowers but they have no leaves ( hederifolium,confusum.cilicicum,mirabile)
Have any other growers of Cyclamen this beasties too ?
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since some day I see on my fresh cyclamen leaves that they are damaged .....now this morning I found this beast :o
this is what we call "Frostspanner"
It is the larva of a saw fly (Order Hymenoptera, sub-order Symphyta, family Tenthredinidae).
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Thank you Anthony :D
....this caterpillar is not from a butterfly ?
I did not know it !
But I found in my pots also larvae ....next time I will make a pic !
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Here most damages on Cyclamenleaves are caused by cutworms (Agrotis + Euxoa).
Replanting some Cyclamen seedlings I found among some Cyclamen rohlfsianum one lacking the typical reddish colour of the proliferation - could this result in a white flowering plant?
(seeds are from a normal pink one)
Edit: After searching in internet it is nearly impossible the seedling will be white as it seems there is only one white in cultivation?! http://www.cyclamen.org/rohlf_set.html (this one has reddish flower and leaf stalks)
Nevertheless I am very curios how it will flower ;)
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The Cyclamen graecum ssp candicum are now coming into flower, the photo is from a plant that originated from Omalos in Crete, plants grown from wild collected seed will show quite a lot of variation in the petal colour and shape but the majority are likely to be as the one shown.
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Very nice, Melcyn. I have relatively young seedlings of that coming along at the moment. Nice to see again what they will look like when they grow up (I did check out pics when I first got the seed, but haven't looked them up since).
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Very nice indeed Melvyn. I take it they are outside, they wouldn't look so perfect in my wet garden.
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Melvyn thats very similar in flower to my post 373 which came from NW Crete,the Rhodope peninsula.I hesitated to call mine ssp candicum as I think it might not be from the known area but I cannot see much difference
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Melvyn thats very similar in flower to my post 373 which came from NW Crete,the Rhodope peninsula.I hesitated to call mine ssp candicum as I think it might not be from the known area but I cannot see much difference
Tony I agree there does not appear to be very much difference in the photos and difficult to make a judgement unless you see the whole plant however I have spent many days on the Rhodopou peninsular since my first visit about twenty years ago and to my eyes every plant that I have seen is ssp graecum, my view may not be shared by others! I think the nearest known site to Rhodopos is at Platanias.
Very nice indeed Melvyn. I take it they are outside, they wouldn't look so perfect in my wet garden.
David I dont think mine would be successful outside either, the plant photographed is growing under glass.
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Here most damages on Cyclamenleaves are caused by cutworms (Agrotis + Euxoa).
Replanting some Cyclamen seedlings I found among some Cyclamen rohlfsianum one lacking the typical reddish colour of the proliferation - could this result in a white flowering plant?
(seeds are from a normal pink one)
Edit: After searching in internet it is nearly impossible the seedling will be white as it seems there is only one white in cultivation?! http://www.cyclamen.org/rohlf_set.html (this one has reddish flower and leaf stalks)
Nevertheless I am very curios how it will flower ;)
Hans I can confirm that the plant with white flowers has reddish leaf stems and the underside of the leaf is reddish as well. I too had a seedling with apple green leaf stalks and the underside of the leaf was bright apple green without a trace of red, regrettably in my case the plant eventually had pink flowers so the lack of red colouration in the plant was not an indicator of the flower colour.
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Here are three of my Cyclamen hederifolium Album. Two are growing in red granite chippings by the front of the house (west facing). The other is under next door's hedge at the back of the garden.
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Finally finished my coum bed, sadly without any crocus mixed in. Had to make the bed smaller then I had wanted. I just didn't have the compost to do the original size of 16ft x 9ft, this bed is 5.5ftx 9ft. Planted 231 coum.
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You can always add the Crocus by spreading seed, though, can't you ?
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Finally finished my coum bed . . .
Many years ago I discovered that cyclamen like the deep layer of duff that forms under coniferous trees. I've grown them succesfully under Thuja plicata (golden form), Picea glauca ("Alberta blue spruce"), and Cedrus deodara. However, they do not like being under Pinus contorta (lodgepole pine) - conditions seem to be too dry, so even Cyclamen hederifolium merely survives, and that none too well.
I superficially damp down the duff once in a while during the summer so young seedlings don't dry out totally, and every few years scatter ground limestone on the duff to keep it from becoming excessively acid.
Cc. coum, cilicium, repandum, libanoticum, and intaminatum enjoy these sites. I keep C. hederifolium out of them as it's tough enough to do well elsewhere and might swamp the frailer species. C. pseduibericum is an exception: it enjoyed being under Pinus contorta, but is now trying to decide if it likes conditions since those pines were removed.
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Interesting observations, Rodger.
Guff, is your new cyclamen bed under pines or simply top dressed with pine needles?
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Although I posted these last week they looked much better today so here they are again:-
Cyclamen cilicium, and
Cyclamen intaminatum.
I choose to grow most of my Cyclamen under glass (apart from a few C.coum and C.hederifolium) as they would be rapidly spoiled by the wet weather.
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Until now there are no flowering Cyclamen - but today I had to replant an older Cyclamen rohlfsianum in my garden. It grew in a rectangular corner of a trough, I was amazed how perfectly the tuber has used the space. ;)
Hello Hans A, you must be one of the few people on this forum who can grow C rohlfsianum outside. A combination of warm summer and frost free winter experienced by few! (I expect Oron can as well, although do you grow them in your fridge-box Oron?)
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The bed is in my lower hard woods. The pine needles are to help keep heavy rains from washing the leaf compost/worm castings/sand away. Plus it looks nice and shows off the leaves better.
Maggi, I really wanted to add in crocus, but being 5 inches apart I thought there wasn't enough room. I may still add in a few crocus here and there to see how it worksout.
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Just to chip in some southern hemisphere observations...... Cyclamen coum, libanoticum, cyprium (I think... must check whether still is) repandum (first flower found yesterday) and purpurascens (last flowers for now) are in flower at present. Buds appearing on balearicum too.
Just to show the other side of the world. ;D
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Some more pictures.
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Guff,
Beautiful show - I like this setting - and the plants obviously too!
Gerd
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Hello People--could someone identify please this cyclamen flowing in with a pot of coum?
Is it repandum ssp peleponnesiacum?
Thanks--Paul Rumkorf
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Definitely a repandum, Paul, and the leaves look about right. I'm never quite sure what the definition for ssp pelponnesiacum is though. :o
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Definitely a repandum, Paul, and the leaves look about right. I'm never quite sure what the definition for ssp pelponnesiacum is though. :o
It's the silvery leaves that make it peloponnesiacum. The group from the Peloponnese and Rhodes were split from
C repandum a few years ago. This silvery splashed one is now Cyclamen rhodium ssp peloponnesiacum.
I know we all get fed up of name changes, but this one has held for at least five years (must be a record in recent cyclamen taxonomy changes!)
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You definitely see things on a large scale Guff ! ;D
It should look stunning in a couple of years ! 8)
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@Melvyn - thanks a lot for your comments - I will keep an eye on this seedling - hope dies last... ;)
This species seems to be quite variable - my oldest plant has hardly any marking on the more rounded and thiner leaves while others are not so round/more pointed, thicker and are much better marked.
Hello Hans A, you must be one of the few people on this forum who can grow C rohlfsianum outside. A combination of warm summer and frost free winter experienced by few! (I expect Oron can as well, although do you grow them in your fridge-box Oron?)
;D - there are less than 300km to Africa ;) - the price to pay were temperatures up to 43ºC this summer!
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Just to chip in some southern hemisphere observations...... Cyclamen coum, libanoticum, cyprium (I think... must check whether still is) repandum (first flower found yesterday) and purpurascens (last flowers for now) are in flower at present. Buds appearing on balearicum too.
Just to show the other side of the world. ;D
Cyprium & purpurascens are flowering here too Paul, although mine very rarely continue through to spring like yours 8)
Others now flowering are africanum (survived outdoors over the last several winters), cilicium, colchicum, intaminatum and of course hederifolium. Rohlfsianum is yet to come, and graecum gives me some beautiful foliage each year but ne'er a flower despite my efforts to give it as much sun and heat as possible :-\
Lovely plants everyone.
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Hello Hans A, you must be one of the few people on this forum who can grow C rohlfsianum outside. A combination of warm summer and frost free winter experienced by few! (I expect Oron can as well, although do you grow them in your fridge-box Oron?)
Diane, sorry, just got up from my summer dormancy today..
I grow my C. rohlfsianum outside, that is after some years that i would kill them regularly by over watering during summer, following by me knocking my head against the wall for a day or two, since it takes this species ages to mature.
Things have changed for the better when i decided to treat this species as a succulent or even a Cactus that means i hold water completely for 7 months!! from March to mid September.
I control young tubers [1-3 years old] monthly and if i see they start to shrink i move them to a cooler place and rarely add some drops of water .
Since then they just thrive here, i find this species to be really fascinating, some patience is required, dew to the short cycle of growth it takes 5-6 years to mature.
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Thanks for identifying my Cyclamen rhodium ssp peloponnesiacum. I'll never be able to pronounce that :)
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Thanks for identifying my Cyclamen rhodium ssp peloponnesiacum. I'll never be able to pronounce that :)
Just call it "Pelops" ;D
cheers
fermi
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Flowers are appearing fast on my potted cyclamen. I am struggling to find space to get them on the bench. I really need to reduce numbers but they are all different so it is a difficult choice. A plant which is pleasing me greatly this year is a form of Cyclamen mirabile which has beautiful foliage but up till now has been very poor at flowering. It was supposed to be 'Tilebarn Nicholas' but of the 4 seedlings 2 had this leaf form and two were more like the correct form. Pic 1 was taken on Sunday and the second today showing how fast the flowers open.
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Such a pretty little thing - just like a jewel - precious :D
I hope it sets lots of seed!
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Cyclamen mirabile which has beautiful foliage
Roma your C mirabile is absolute perfection - I love the leaves and the flower is so pretty :)
You're happy and the plant looks happy too ;)
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Gerd, Luc thanks.
This is the hederifolium's third year flowering. Each year it keeps getting better. In 2007 when they flowered for the first time I had around 80 flowers that year. In 2008 around 500 flowers, I don't plan on counting them this year.
I extended my hellebore bed, for Jan's dark purple hederifolium, planted 56 seedlings. Maybe they will be darker with natural sunlight, crossing fingers anyways.
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Many Cyclamen are coming into flower now, this is Cyclamen graecum album photographed today.
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A few more Cyclamen portraits taken today.
Cyclamen mirabile Tilebarn Anne
Cyclamen hederifolium, an unusual colour form from a plant that was found in the Pelion Greece, unfortunately only a low percentage of the seedlings come true to the parent
Cyclamen confusum
Cyclamen rohlfsianum
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Just beautiful Melvyn, all of them.
Here is one of mine from SRGC Seed Ex. as Cyclamen africanum, sown 19 February 2007 and lovingly nurtured since then and flowering for the first time. The thing is I've mulled over the description for C.africanum in Chris Grey-Wilsons "Cyclamen" and his description doesn't fit my plant nor does he mention a white form and as a Cyclamen 'rookie' I find it difficult yet to recognise many of the distinctions between species. Could someone help please.
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David, I think your plant is hederifolium. There has been seed sometimes in the exchanges described as C africanum album but I am not sure that such a plant exists. I vaguely remember talking to someone at the SRGC weekend last year about this(was it Jean W?). I've been growing some of these so-called africanum album plants from seed myself to find out what they are (I haven't solved it yet, but hope to shortly).
I think the best way to differentiate hederifolium from africanum is the shape of the tuber, as africanum has a distinct concave bowl at the upper surface.
The pictures show:
africanum top and lower surface
africanum showing bowl shape to top of tuber
hederifolium top and lower surface
hederifolium showing tuber shape
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Kath Dryden used to say, to tell the difference, plant 'em outside... if it's africanum it'll die ;)
Helpful photos, Diane, thanks 8)
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Kath Dryden used to say, to tell the difference, plant 'em outside... if it's africanum it'll die ;)
Yes, I've heard this one. I do protect my largest plant, because I've had it a long time and don't want to risk it, but all my africanum seedlings and young plants were frozen solid in my Access frame last winter (down to -9C) and there were no losses. I suppose outside (literally) is a different matter. But take a look at the tuber - it's often pretty clear.
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But take a look at the tuber - it's often pretty clear.
Yes, and shows how easy it would be for water to collect in the "bowl" and cause rot. :-X
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David, could you post a picture of the white cyclamen's leaf, please?
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David, I agree with Diane, your plant is almost certainly Cyclamen hederifolium. I have never seen or heard of a white C.africanum, apart from in seed lists. As for determining the species by tuber shape I agree that is always a pretty good guide, if for example you grow C.africanum from Jim Archibalds seed list which originates from his collection from the Kabylie area in Algeria the tubers are always concave on the top surface however there are exceptions, I also have a plant collected in Tunisia by John Thompson from Montpellier and the tuber looks exactly like a C.purpurasens tuber.
Frustrating when you dont get what you were hoping for but at least you still have a nice plant.....
I think the relationship between C.africanum and C. hederifolium merits further study both in the field and laboratory.
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A few more.
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Thanks Diane and Melvyn for responding. Pic of a leaf is below as requested by Diane.
The leaves are not fully developed yet. If I were to take a look a tuber now, rather than waiting until the next re-pot, would I be likely to damage growth in any way? I have four pots with two tubers in each and all survived last years bad winter in the greenhouse when I lost four pots of two year old Cyclamen rohlfsianum.
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Very fine pictures (and plants) everyone!
Thanks Diane for the pictures of C. africanum :D - now I only have to find the one growing together with all the hederifoliums... (the label dwindled away long ago ::))
Cyclamen rohlfsianum always starts the cyclamen season here.
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Some different forms of Cyclamen graecum in flower now and a Cyclamen cilicicum
First two Cyclamen graecum ssp graecum
Cyclamen graecum ssp candicum
Cyclamen graecum ssp anatolicum
Cyclamen cilicicum
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Thanks Diane and Melvyn for responding. Pic of a leaf is below as requested by Diane.
The leaves are not fully developed yet. If I were to take a look a tuber now, rather than waiting until the next re-pot, would I be likely to damage growth in any way? I have four pots with two tubers in each and all survived last years bad winter in the greenhouse when I lost four pots of two year old Cyclamen rohlfsianum.
David - I have some hederifoliums with identical markings.
johnw
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Hello all, I find this topic very interesting as I have what i was told is C africanum and it is
white,It was at last Octobers AGS show at Loughborough and on the online show,
It always flowers without the foliage,
The plant in the picture is last year as it is just coming into flower,I hope i get the size right
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Cyclamen hederifolium confusum
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Very nice indeed Michael.
Tony, confusing ain't it, and I see you got a third in the On Line Show too. Hope someone doesn't rush in now and give you a NAS card ;D
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Hello all, I find this topic very interesting as I have what i was told is C africanum and it is white,It was at last Octobers AGS show at Loughborough and on the online show, It always flowers without the foliage, The plant in the picture is last year as it is just coming into flower,I hope i get the size right
The size is right, Tony, the plant looks good. Can you post a picture of the side view of the plant please?
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A picture to show the variation in some Cyclamen hederifolium flowers.
From left to right from Mt Olympus Greece,Langada Pass Greece,Kiouri Forest Greece, Gargano Italy
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One of my poor tortured Cyclamen rohlfsianum from the Cyclamen Society seedex of 1986. As Diane and Maggi mentioned it is typically concave on top and one has to wonder if it is not a desperate mechanism to collect a bit of moisture in its native haunts, mist or dew perhaps. Unfortunately now matter where I place it a drip will invariably spring directly over it in the greenhouse.
Re-potted last year it already is screaming asking for a larger pot.
johnw
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And here is another variation, silver with green a Xmas tree centre.
I thought with such a cool summer here purpurascens would not flower so well but they have. Maybe next summer they will be shy.
johnw
Wow, John, that's a great variation for C. purpurascens! Is it flowering size yet?
cheers
fermi
I guess I haven't been paying attention as today I found a good-sized 4-5 year old plant in the greenhouse with identical leaves. I'll try to take a shot.
johnw
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Diane asked for a side on picture of my C africanum album?It is just coming into flower,it certainly does not have a concave tuber but neither does my pink one,Perhaps that is not C africanum,I would not like to get the dreaded NAS as David mentioned.it would be nice if someone could post a picture of the flower of C africanum and C hederifolium side by side.
Regarding seed my last picture is from a 1986 copy of the Bernard Harkness seedlist handbook,
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Yes, I would also like to see a pic of the flowers of Cyclamen hederifolium and C.africanum side by side please.
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Two shots of the newly found purpurascens - green Xmas tree on silver leaf.
And the old and tired africanum with sunken centre.
johnw
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first of my Cyclamen mirable in flower
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...... and mine. Cyclamen mirabile
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David very nice. You will see that mine flower before the leaves have formed but this may be down to my watering regime.
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My first mirabile out in the garden:
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This funny pink weed is popping up in my massonia plunge....
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sometimes you can't give them away. This africanum (i suspect two of them looking at the flower colour) is one of several potted up for sale three years ago and were unwanted. As you can see from the second picture the pot is now bulging!
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C. intaminatum yesterday, and some long awaited C graecum buds in my bulb frame.
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Two days ago Arthur (art600) and I visited Peter Moore, the following show some of the plants he has in flower.
1. A group of Cyclamen hederifolium plants.
2. A 3" pot of C. hederifolium, I wish I could get them to flower as well as this....
3. C. hederifolium Rosenteppich
4. The Rosenteppich that I bought, I liked the black markings on the sinus contrasting with the white tips to the petals.
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Some more plants seen at Peter Moore's.
1. C. rohlfsianum with extraordinary long petals.
2. C. rohlfsianum holding its petals like C.alpinum.
3. The C.rohlfsianum that I decided to buy.
4. It was a surprise to see a flower on C. persicum Tilebarn Karpathos.
5. A nice leaf form of C.graecum ssp anatolicum that I could not resist.
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Thanks for showing all this well grown Cyclamen.
Melvyn - thanks for the pictures of Peter Moores nursery - it is a good luck for me (and my account balance) it is so far away ... 8) ;)
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You've definitely got an eye for a good plant, Melvyn. That hederifolium 'Rosenteppich' you picked out for yourself is a beauty - the dark sinus marks, white petal tips and a very shapely flower too. 8)
Wish I can make it to Tilebarn one of these days. I used to drive down that way quite regularly but never found the time to make the neccessary diversion to the nursery. Now I never get to that part of the country. :(
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Agreed Martin, have to go shopping with Melvyn.
I've grown a fair number of 'Rosenteppich' seed and never had anything approaching that colour. Smashing! I suspect the name in the seedexs is passed down the line to open-pollinated seed and god knows how many generations away from the strain.
johnw
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Cyclamen graecum
Slightly past its best.
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Fantastic, love the leaves too 8)
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Thanks for the pix of Peter Moore's nursery Melvyn, amazing plants - and you surely picked some real goodies !
A splendid C. graecum Gerry !! :o
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Thanks Robin & Luc.
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hi, long time no post.
I have a question for you. Has anyone heard of Cyclamen africanum album? I got seed from the AGS years ago. When I checked it had been donated by Sheila..ok, it might be Mowbray..my memory is failing me. Her husband(?) was an exhibitor in the late 70s I thought they lived Northampton someting like that..it seems then she was in Scotland. Anyway as he seemed to know his plants it made me think it might be genuine.
Mark
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Cyclamen mirabile
I bought this plant from Tilebarn Nursery 17 years ago. It flowers prolifically every year. I think it was last re-potted about 8 years ago.
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Cyclamen intaminatum
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Very nice Cyclamen mirabile Gerry, clearly it pays not to repot too often.
Several Cyclamen graecum ssp candicum in flower today. Its not often that you get to see a plant where you like both the flowers and the leaves but as with Gerry's C. mirabile this one does it for me.
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hi, long time no post.
I have a question for you. Has anyone heard of Cyclamen africanum album? I got seed from the AGS years ago. When I checked it had been donated by Sheila..ok, it might be Mowbray..my memory is failing me. Her husband(?) was an exhibitor in the late 70s I thought they lived Northampton someting like that..it seems then she was in Scotland. Anyway as he seemed to know his plants it made me think it might be genuine.
Mark
Mark, Tony Lee has been asking a similar question.... see his posts ....
Reply #430 on: September 07, 2009, 06:52:16 PM » page 29
Reply #437 on: September 08, 2009, 05:14:37 PM » page 30 . :)
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Very nice Cyclamen mirabile Gerry, clearly it pays not to repot too often.
Several Cyclamen graecum ssp candicum in flower today. Its not often that you get to see a plant where you like both the flowers and the leaves but as with Gerry's C. mirabile this one does it for me.
Thanks Melvyn. I only re-pot cyclamen when they are becoming too big for the pot. They do receive a feed of half-strength Phostrogen every now & again.
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Cyclamen graecum (? subsp. anatolicum ?)
From seed collected on Monte Smith, Rhodes (not by me).
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Wonderful Cyclamen Gerry !! 8)
The mirabile is a real champion ! - foliage on your graecum looks spectacular too !
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Thanks Luc - you are very kind.
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Cilicium, this is it's third year flowering outside.
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We visited a local woodland yesterday to see the Cyclamen hederifolium in flower. Most plants were flowering in shades of pale pink, 10% were albino, a very few were deeper pinks and 2 of plants we saw had narrower petals, which gave a propeller like form to the flowers.
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This may be the one I was looking for.
Dark Purple Hederifolium
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Guff - That one looks to be promising. Keep us posted on its progress. Hope you get a purple. What was your seed source?
The darkest pink I have is ex 'Ruby' and it's not all that dark.
What ever happened to the screaming magenta coums that seemed to be everywhere and the commonly available back in the 70's? It think we could get them from a nursery in New York State.
johnw
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What ever happened to the screaming magenta coums that seemed to be everywhere and the commonly available back in the 70's?
At a guess, the gene pool of Cyclamen coum in cultivation has broadened to include other forms, thanks to new introductions. From hiding behind trees and eavesdropping on my fellow gardrners, it sounds like the classic C. coum with dark unmarked foliage and a screaming magenta flower is now something of a rarity.
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What ever happened to the screaming magenta coums that seemed to be everywhere and the commonly available back in the 70's?
At a guess, the gene pool of Cyclamen coum in cultivation has broadened to include other forms, thanks to new introductions. From hiding behind trees and eavesdropping on my fellow gardrners, it sounds like the classic C. coum with dark unmarked foliage and a screaming magenta flower is now something of a rarity.
Roger - That was my hunch as well. It is a real pity if it is a rarity now. I have grown alot of coum from seed and have never had one turn out like that magenta one. Of course back in thiose days we wanted clearer pinks so I guess we are at fault. Was it not sold as 'Atkinsii'?
Another observation, twenty-five years ago the long leafed hederifolium was only to be seen in a few gardens the Victoria area. I first saw it on a garden tour there, a low modern house on the water with low rocky outcrops near the sea. A fellow who was editor of the ARS Victoria Chapter kindly sent me seed in the early 90's. We called it the Vancouver Island long leaf form then.
johnw
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The Dark Purple Hederifolium seeds are from Jan Bravenboer. I will post a picture when it opens. It looks like there is some extra petals on the backside, maybe it's two flowers forming. Last summer I had one with 3 flowers on one flower stalk.
From last summer.
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Hi ,
in this time I have a lot of flowering Cyc. graecum - this here is my darkest form !
...seeds collect from Mani in year 2000 :D
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Hi Hans,
This is an interesting color indeed and a very fine photograph!
Gerd
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a wonder !!! gorgeous plant Hans
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Hi ,
in this time I have a lot of flowering Cyc. graecum - this here is my darkest form !
...seeds collect from Mani in year 2000 :D
Certainly up to your usual standards Hans. Both the plant and the photograph.
johnw
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Gerd- Dom -John ;)
Thank you for your compliments ::)
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Not fully open, but I thought I would post it anyways. Monday or tuesday I will see if I can get a better picture. Very happy with this one.
Hans don't you have a red Hederifolium. Any pictures of it this year?
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This was bought as C. hederifolium but it always has small flowers. Is it as bought?
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mark I posted a picture showing some different flower sizes some days ago.They are very variable. here it is again
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Thanks.
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This was bought as C. hederifolium but it always has small flowers. Is it as bought?
The flower size can also be affected by severe dryness at the root at flowering time and by lack of nutrients. It's definitely hederiflolium.
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The leaves look like hederifolium, but I'm missing the typical auricles of hederifolium ???
Guff, interesting dark hederifolium, but what's wrong with your focus?? So many of your photos are fuzzy and out of focus!!
Did you ever try the manuel focus, this could help for better photos.
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What is an auricle? I know what is is on grass.
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What is an auricle? I know what is is on grass.
Mark, the auricles are the little sticky-out slightly ear-like bits at the bases of the petals. You can see them clearly on Tony's pics. How prominent they are can vary. They're not prominent, as Thomas says, on your flowers, but I reckon you can still see them to some degree. The flowering time, leaves and general flower shape all point to hederifolium, even without very prominent auricles.
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Mark :
"Auricula" comes from latein - it means : little ears ( ear lobe )
in anatomie is "auricle" the outer ear
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Thomas , thats a good picture in my shaky hands. The camera has trouble focusing.
I clipped a couple flowers, alba and a pinkish one and stuck them in the ground next to the dark purple. Couldn't decide which was the best picture.
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Here is one of my favourite Cyclamen- Cyclamen cyprium E.S.
It has a wonderful scent and to my eye has the perfect Cyclamen leaf.
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Very Early - fine plant and beautiful leaves!
Gerd
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Wonderful leaves David !! :o
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Nice plants Guff and David. Lovely plans and I like the comparison with the three flowers Guff.
Regarding closeups that is not as good as one wants I realized that also the small cameras have a macro function (often a flower symbol) and I improved the quality using that on my Olympus "my" camera but when using my parents one year younger equally expensive HP camera this function is not as good and give a bit out of focus pictures. (I usually use flash) If not using flash maybe a tripod is to be used? There are small ones that fit in the pocket. This is just beginner advice and You may know it already but not every one. I am not a good photographer my self but have improved a bit by playing around with the settings (macro on and off, "auto flash" on or of) of the camera and maybe it helps. There are more things to discover but this helped me a lot.
Keep the lovely cyclamen coming
Kind regards
Joakim
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All my cyclamen are still dormant. The weather is still warm, so im looking forward to the cooler days to enjoy those magnificent leaves (and the flowers!)
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Yesterday we saw more Cyclamen hederifolium in a wood near Topolovgrad. A lot of the plants here had scented flowers, but we hadn't noticed a scent at other locations we have visited. Are there scented and nonscented C.hederifolium?
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Are there scented and nonscented C.hederifolium?
Yes indeedy. Some populations can have quite a strong scent, but most have none.
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Thanks, Martin. :)
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Scented hederifolium tend to have a light violet-like fragrance, rather like a watered-down version of purpurascens scent. My parents used to have a very good scented plant they were given many years ago but the seedlings I raised from it weren't particluarly scented. There are wild populations in various locations that are reputedly known for their scent, but there doesn't seem to be a reliable commercial scented strain that's widely available. Maybe it's a recessive genetic thing and you need cross-pollination between scented individuals.
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The area where they were growing did smell faintly of violets. Chris was the one down on his knees taking photos and he was the one who noticed that ony some of the plants were scented. There seemed to be more of a scent coming from the pinker individuals. The flowers here were also larger, with broader petals, than the ones which grow closer to us.
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Does anyone know what Cyclamen cilicium 'Bowles' Variety' should look like? Was it selected for flower or leaf? I sowed seed from the Cyclamen Society in January 2006 and now have 8 very varied plants. Two are pure white with large flowers. One is white with a pink nose and fairly broad petals. The others vary from off white with pink nose to the usual cilicium shade of pink.
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The white with pink nose is lovely.
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Does anyone know what Cyclamen cilicium 'Bowles' Variety' should look like? Was it selected for flower or leaf?
Christopher Grey-Wilson says cilicium 'Bowles' Variety' presumably originate from Myddleton House but are pretty much indistinguishable from ordinary cilicium.
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When exactly does the Cyclamen Society seed list come out? Last year it was in the June 2008 Journal. The June 2009 issue has not arrived yet and it seems to be awfully late. I've been a member for more than twenty years and can't recall! The seedex is always dependable though.
johnw
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When exactly does the Cyclamen Society seed list come out? Last year it was in the June 2008 Journal. The June 2009 issue has not arrived yet and it seems to be awfully late. I've been a member for more than twenty years and can't recall! The seedex is always dependable though. johnw
The seed list was in the June 2009 journal, as usual. I would suggest you contact the society about your late/missing journal so you don't miss out on the seed exchange
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The seed list was in the June 2009 journal, as usual. I would suggest you contact the society about your late/missing journal so you don't miss out on the seed exchange
Thanks Diane. Dues were paid 6 weeks or so ago so the Journal must be missing in the mail.
johnw
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Apart of C. rohlfsianum, which is one of my favourites, hardly any cylamen are flowering here - but this species shows some nice variation.
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Fantastic photos from everyone,
Like with Hans A. most of the cyclamen are still dormant or just starting to show up, first are some Rohlfsianum and Graecum album.
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Scented hederifolium tend to have a light violet-like fragrance, rather like a watered-down version of purpurascens scent. My parents used to have a very good scented plant they were given many years ago but the seedlings I raised from it weren't particluarly scented. There are wild populations in various locations that are reputedly known for their scent, but there doesn't seem to be a reliable commercial scented strain that's widely available. Maybe it's a recessive genetic thing and you need cross-pollination between scented individuals.
The Cyclamen hederifolium found on the Cyclamen Society field trips to Corfu in 2007 and Zakinthos in 2008 were all scented so perhaps the key to getting a scented plant is to ensure that it is a seedling where the parentage can be traced back to either of these islands. The real rarity in C. hederifolium is to find the pure white form that is scented, we found two in Corfu.
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Thanks for the info, Melvyn. I was going to have a look back through my old Cyclamen Society journals to see what I could glean about the sources of scented plants but you saved me the trouble. I suppose the problem would be that unless the plants were first generation seedlings from those scented island populations, then they may have crossed with other non-scented hederifoliums in cultivation. I've just checked in Christopher Grey-Wilson's book and he says that you only get scented seedlings if both parents are scented. So I guess that's the problem in cultivation, any scented strain being prone to losing its scent unless kept isolated from non-scented plants. It would be great to do some selective breeding with scented hederifoliums on a large enough scale to develop increased fragrance.
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Like with Hans A. most of the cyclamen are still dormant or just starting to show up, first are some Rohlfsianum and Graecum album.
That is funny - this are exactly the plants which are in flower here! :D
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I have received and sown seeds of Cyclamen leicolor in 2007 from a bulgarian botanical garden origin. I have found nothing about this species or ...??? Looking at the leaves now, I suppose it is a form (?) of Cyclamen persicum. What do you think about it ?
Dom
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Speaking of C. hederifolium, we planted a batch if various kinds of CS hederifolium seed on the 12th of December 2008. Each variety is rather overcrowded in 3" square pots. Tonight I noticed 5 hederifolium 'Nettleton Silver' seedlings are about to open flowers. I've never had cyclamen bloom so early in life. Is this usual for ex 'Nettleton Silver' seedlings? Or should I blame Ian Young's recommendation of frequent applications of sulphate of potash? Nothing as good as the foliage of a 'Nettleton Silver' I got from Potterton & Martin has appeared amongst the seedlings, ...yet.
johnw
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Speaking of C. hederifolium, we planted a batch if various kinds of CS hederifolium seed on the 12th of December 2008. Each variety is rather overcrowded in 3" square pots. Tonight I noticed 5 hederifolium 'Nettleton Silver' seedlings are about to open flowers. I've never had cyclamen bloom so early in life. Is this usual for ex 'Nettleton Silver' seedlings? Or should I blame Ian Young's recommendation of frequent applications of sulphate of potash? Nothing as good as the foliage of a 'Nettleton Silver' I got from Potterton & Martin has appeared amongst the seedlings, ...yet. johnw
I've had C coum flower in 10 months from sowing, that's my fastest. But I have never flowered C hederifolium in the first year.
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I had purpurascens in flower 14 months after sowing.
Hederifolium took two years.
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I have received and sown seeds of Cyclamen leicolor in 2007 from a bulgarian botanical garden origin. I have found nothing about this species or ...??? Looking at the leaves now, I suppose it is a form (?) of Cyclamen persicum. What do you think about it ?
Dom
Dom I've never heard of C. leicolor, even as a synonym, but yes it looks like persicum. It will be interesting to see the flowers ...
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I've had C coum flower in 10 months from sowing, that's my fastest. But I have never flowered C hederifolium in the first year.
Thanks all. Strangely the coums of the same sowing are very slow this time round.
Most of the hederifoliums to flower seem to be white.
johnw
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I have received and sown seeds of Cyclamen leicolor in 2007 from a bulgarian botanical garden origin. I have found nothing about this species or ...??? Looking at the leaves now, I suppose it is a form (?) of Cyclamen persicum. What do you think about it ?
Dom
LEI Color is a commercial colour range (see: http://www.colorhunter.com/tag/lei/2 ) I don't think leicolor is meant to be a botanical name, but a garden name meant to suggest the wide range of colours in Cyclamen persicum.
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Thank you Martin. I found curious that a botanical garden proposed this with other wild plants ! Ashley, I hope they bloom this spring. Perhaps surprises, perhaps ordinary commercial plants ?????????? But I find they have nice leaves
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It would be cool if this leaf type stabilized on this purpurascens seedling.
johnw
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Howdy All,
Just caught up with this topic. Some crackers of Cyclamen in here, particularly the C. hederifolium Rosenteppich from Melvyn and all those wonderful mirabile, graecums and the rohlfsianums. Some really beautiful leaf forms too, which I've not seen before. Thanks everyone. 8)
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The bed is still putting on a good showing of flowers.
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That's a fine colony of hederifolium Guff, and a good range of leaf types.
Clearly they enjoy the needle mulch which sets them off so well 8)
A rather promising purpurascens there all right John.
Have you ever tried seed from Jan Bravenboer? I've been delighted with the results.
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That's a fine colony of hederifolium Guff, and a good range of leaf types.
Clearly they enjoy the needle mulch which sets them off so well 8)
A rather promising purpurascens there all right John.
Have you ever tried seed from Jan Bravenboer? I've been delighted with the results.
Ashley - I have perused his list many times and drooled over his Picco Rosso.
Any particular recommendations?
johnw
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It would be cool if this leaf type stabilized on this purpurascens seedling.
johnw
Very nice John. By the way, I am told by friends who have teenage kids that the current expression is "straight out of the fridge."
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Very nice John. By the way, I am told by friends who have teenage kids that the current expression is "straight out of the fridge."
Good to know Gerry and I'm sure there's a hand signal to go with that. It meant dead when I was a teen. :D
That leaf shape reminds me of a dwarf perennial plant I was given out west. I forget the name but it was a shiny green, grew on rock walls and cliffs in the southwest of England, looked like Pilea peperomioides and died the first winter. M..... or O..... ??? ??? ???
johnw
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@Guff - very nice view, I had to check twice you really are in NY and not somewhere in Italy ;)
@John, your C.purpurascens seedling is very interesting - I hope it keeps such leaves!
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Ashley, Hans thanks.
I'm very happy with the bed. If my new coum bed survives, my next goal is to have a bed with a couple hundred purpurascens. I do like purpurascens the best, the scent is amazing.
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That leaf shape reminds me of a dwarf perennial plant I was given out west. I forget the name but it was a shiny green, grew on rock walls and cliffs in the southwest of England, looked like Pilea peperomioides and died the first winter. M..... or O..... ??? ??? ???
Not Umbilicus rupestris (http://www.irishwildflowers.ie/pages/184a.html) or wall pennywort is it John? If so and you want to try again please let me know.
Unfortunately I'm away from garden & records just now but certainly Jan Bravenboer's 'Green Ice' seed gave me a wonderful mix of green-on-silver & silver-on-green.
I agree Guff; purpurascens is a wonderful species & impossible to have too much of ;D
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That leaf shape reminds me of a dwarf perennial plant I was given out west. I forget the name but it was a shiny green, grew on rock walls and cliffs in the southwest of England, looked like Pilea peperomioides and died the first winter. M..... or O..... ??? ??? ???
Not Umbilicus rupestris (http://www.irishwildflowers.ie/pages/184a.html) or wall pennywort is it John? If so and you want to try again please let me know.
Unfortunately I'm away from garden & records just now but certainly Jan Bravenboer's 'Green Ice' seed gave me a wonderful mix of green-on-silver & silver-on-green.
I agree Guff; purpurascens is a wonderful species & impossible to have too much of ;D
That's the one Ashley. The word Omphalos was in my head so I wasn't too far off the mark. ;)
I don't think the Umbilicus will be hardy here but thanks for the offer.
I'll certainly try some of Jan's seed, another thanks.
johnw
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On the subject of time to flower. I have had buds on coum and purpurascens at 6 months, the coum didn't open though until spring. Hederifolium, I sowed seed August 17 08, they started to germinate August 30ish, first sign of buds was July 26 09. They were grown in my cool basement with the lights on 24/7.
Pot of Hederifolium 1 year old seedlings, picture was taken September 19th.
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On the subject of time to flower. I have had buds on coum and purpurascens at 6 months, the coum didn't open though until spring. Hederifolium, I sowed seed August 17 08, they started to germinate August 30ish, first sign of buds was July 26 09. They were grown in my cool basement with the lights on 24/7.
Pot of Hederifolium 1 year old seedlings, picture was taken September 19th.
Guff - They look great.
Mine too are under fluorescents in a cool room in the basement (thick stone walls so ut rarely heats up and never freezes) - 4-12c. The lights are 3 years old and are left on all the time.
johnw
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Johnw thanks.
My setup, picture is from November 04, 2008. There are about 450ish coum/hederifolium seedlings there. I'm using fluorex bulbs.
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Guff - I'm using 48" cool whites as we can get them for about $30 for a case of 30. Have 12 double flourescent light fixtures in the house and greenhouse and 2 sodiums in the barn. The sodiums are expensive but they heat the barn too, the furnace rarely comes on.
johnw
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Greenhouse effect? Where?
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My brother took these for me.
Dark Purple Hederifolium
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Great colour, Guff. Beautiful.
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This is one of the Cyclamen persicum I raised from Seedex labelled "ex Israel",
[attachthumb=1]
It's doing well in the Shade-house but after seeing Oron's postings earlier in the year I'm inclined to think they could survive outside in the rock garden.
cheers
fermi
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My brother took these for me.
Dark Purple Hederifolium
Guff, I love the colour, dark and very striking - the conditions you are growing them in are similar to under a pine I have here but I'm wondering if your ground/needle surface dries out like mine in summer and how deep are the corms buried in it?
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Robin. I don't think the summer dry would be a problem, possible that prolonged snow cover will be disadvantageous for a plant in full leaf by late autumn. It grows wild not far from you along the Valley and lower slopes of Vaud Alps South of Lac Leman. Others will perhaps comment on their experience with it in the mountains. I reckon it could be OK. Cheap to obtain and easy from seed it is worth a try ... and how good it would look, naturalised on your rocky slopes!
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Robin. I don't think the summer dry would be a problem, possible that prolonged snow cover will be disadvantageous for a plant in full leaf by late autumn. It grows wild not far from you along the Valley and lower slopes of Vaud Alps South of Lac Leman. Others will perhaps comment on their experience with it in the mountains. I reckon it could be OK. Cheap to obtain and easy from seed it is worth a try ... and how good it would look, naturalised on your rocky slopes!
Tony, thanks for your thoughts - after having seen Thomas's photos of cyclamen around the lake on his holiday I am really longing to give it a go and then Guff's photo's spurred me on - I would love them to naturalise at the side of the chalet where I go in and out and the pine litter is good, I think. I would like to join the Crocus Group on return and pay my dues then....by the way how long from seed to corm are we talking about?
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Robin - Thomas saw Cyclamen purpurascens in Italy ... he will correct me if he also saw Cyclamen hederifolium. It is the latter that I was referring to, not sure about C purpurascens for dry places ???
Crocus from seed to flower 2-4 years, can take longer if things don't grow right! The some care needed through the seasons in pots but for you open garden sowing (in that raised bed perhaps) might be safest.
Sunshine, half-day off, chores done, an hour until the school run (followed by work :P) so I'm off ointo the garden while I can :)
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Robin - Thomas saw Cyclamen purpurascens in Italy ... he will correct me if he also saw Cyclamen hederifolium. It is the latter that I was referring to, not sure about C purpurascens for dry places ???
He won't correct you - I saw only purpurascens on Lago di Garda.
The most Northern plant of hederifolium I found was in Toscany, South of Pisa.
I never found them in Southern France nor in Liguria, although they should grow there
according to literature.
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I have just received some Cyclamen corms and need to know how winter hardy they may be. I am in a Zone 8, about -11°C in a hard year. The species are C. balearicum, C. creticum and C. trochopteranthum. Any advice as to soil requirements?
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Thanks Tony and Thomas for clarifying the Cyclamen for me - I will try C. hederifolium under the pine tree here.
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Hi Robin ,
I have seen a lot of places with Cyclamen ....
After my knowledge I would say C.purpurascens is much better for you .
I know it from Savoyen ,Swizzera, Italy, Croatia,Slovenia,Germany .....
On which altitude is your chalet in Valais ? ....I have seen C. purpurascens until 1700 m growing -they are really hardy
A problem could be your soil -they prefer more calcy soil and Valais is not calcy ( so far I know )
Good luck
Hans
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Hi Hans,
Thanks for your interesting comments about habitats for C.purpurascen - here in Valais we are at the most southern tip of Switzerland and there are lots of limestone outcrops so calcy regions as well as acid - we are at 1,200 metres and facing south above a village called Salvan.
As far as I can conclude we have pretty neutral soil in the garden and are on rocks and moraine which goes almost solid in summer but is well drained and soaked by meltwater in the Spring. Not ideal for planting bulbs but I am using a pick axe and filling the holes with humus on the dry slope. The slope at the back is in part shade and so is wet to a degree even in summer. It was the pine needle mulch on the side slope that led me to believe I could try to naturalise Cyclamen of some sort.
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Wow...I wasn't crazy about Cyclamen, but after I have seen this thread ::)
My opinion has changed :o
Now the problem is where I find a new place in my garden for all I want...
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... C. purpurascens ... prefer more calcy soil and Valais is not calcy ( so far I know )
... although here it grows happily enough in neutral or slightly acid soil too, given moisture and a little shade.
It's worth experimenting Robin ;)
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I think so too Ashley ::)
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I have just received some Cyclamen corms and need to know how winter hardy they may be. I am in a Zone 8, about -11°C in a hard year. The species are C. balearicum, C. creticum and C. trochopteranthum. Any advice as to soil requirements?
Jamie balearicum and creticum are not hardy in Germany. But trochopteranthum surived our last hard winter in my garden (-24°C).
I'm sure it will also survive the winters in Kölle if you give them good drainage and a sheltered place under a shrub or near the housewall.
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- While the crocus are very late this year in my garden, the silver leaves of this Cyclamen coum are already in full growth.
- 4 of my 6 arrow leaf Cyclamen hederifolium, grown from seed
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Nice arrow leaved C. hederifolium Thomas !! :D
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Thomas,
thanks, I suspected as much. Nice grauwacke! Great for rockeries, isn't it. Seedlings are pretty wonderful, as well.
Allaf, aus Kölle,
Jamie
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- While the crocus are very late this year in my garden, the silver leaves of this Cyclamen coum are already in full growth.
- 4 of my 6 arrow leaf Cyclamen hederifolium, grown from seed
Congartualtions your Cyclamen hederifolium, grown from seed are really lovely, Thomas, the shape of the leaves is so cool 8)
This is what Tonyg means that I can try here, I think, but will they like to be in full sun most of the day? I have read that they like to have their roots in cool rock crevices, which I could provide.... ::)
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Splendid Cyclamens Thomas. The coum is especially nice.
johnw
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Jamie, I never noticed that my rocks are "Grauwacke" - I built all my rockgardens
from rocks that I collected from the fields around my hometown. Mainly sandstone!
Great you all like the arrow-leaf-form. I just had a few flowers this year (sown in 2007)
so perhaps we can talk about seed exchange next year.
Robin, I still have some seed of Cyclamen hederifolium and coum (mixed) - so if you want to try some....
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Thanks Thomas for your kind offer, would love to try some...when back in the UK will PM you.
(you can see the conditions I'm talking about in my Alpine garden New beginnings thread, updated today, in General, Alpines)
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3952.0
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Thomas,
Fascinating Cyclamen coum with it's almost all silver/pewter with the tiny dark strip down the centre. Nice!
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(you can see the conditions I'm talking about in my Alpine garden New beginnings thread, updated today, in General, Alpines)
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3952.0
Robin, my seeds should do well under that pine tree. I had so much this year that it's worth a try in every case.
Paul, I havn't noticed the dark stripe until I posted the photo of my silver leaves.
After checking the plant I can say it looks much better in the "wild" ;D
By the way, my arrow leaves were not sown in 2007 (noted wrong in my plant list) but in 2006.
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An old C. graecum still in flower. It had been barerooted and re-potted last year and didn't miss a beat.
johnw
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Wow, John, how wonderful to see such flowering from an oldie - how many years? :)
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Wow, John, how wonderful to see such flowering from an oldie - how many years? :)
Robin - I grew that graecum from the Cyclamen Society Exchange in 1985. I must say I'm glad you asked because I shocked myself with the date and that it survived some of the awful soil mixes I concocted back then.
You're certainly up late!
johnw
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Thanks everyone.
Robin, drainage is the key. I use leaf compost and sand. I remove soil at least 6 inches down and replace with compost/sand mix. I then raise the bed at least 3 inches or more above the surface of the ground. I did a test bed with straight leaf compost, and they seem happy so far.
The Dark Purple Hederifolium flower I posted a few pages back set seed, now another flower is about to open. This one looks like it's going to be even darker.
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John and guff, wonderful success stories, I'm so pleased for both of you ;D ;D ;D
The C. leaves are very special - your dark purple C. hederifolium is such a fantastic colour with that leaf, Guff, happy collecting!
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Two pictures of C. Hed. in flower taken today. The plant was raised from Cyclamen Society seed about 6 years ago and seems to have grown twice as fast as any other from the same batch of silver leaved form. Last year the plants leaves were apple green coloured - maybe something to do with feeding. This year they appear more true to form
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Lovely pot full Tom.
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Great C. hederifolium, Tom!
Here C. cilicicum and C. graecum var. album.
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I am envious of those who can flower graecum. I have had 3 corms for 12 years and have only managed to get them to flower once. They produce wonderfully marked leaves but do not want to flower. I think that Scotland is a bit too far North for reliable flowering
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Tom, so am I! Diane Clements had some useful information on growing Cyclamen graecum in one of her Diaries on the AGS Site. See
http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/diaries/Midland/+August+/222/
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Hans, great white form of C. graecum, and nice leaves in the background ;D
In France, this species flowers very freely and is long time lasting.
Here is a small one just growing now.
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I am envious of those who can flower graecum. I have had 3 corms for 12 years and have only managed to get them to flower once. They produce wonderfully marked leaves but do not want to flower. I think that Scotland is a bit too far North for reliable flowering
Tom - grow fritillaries instead. All the best frits come from Scotland - that is indisputable.
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Foliage on Cyclamen is beginning to look good now. Even the transient red colouring on Cyclamen mirabile is hanging on. The first photo is C. mirabile Tile Barn Anne the second C.mirabile Tile Barn Nicholas.
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Amazing plants, Melvyn. :o
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Foliage on Cyclamen is beginning to look good now. Even the transient red colouring on Cyclamen mirabile is hanging on. The first photo is C. mirabile Tile Barn Anne the second C.mirabile Tile Barn Nicholas.
Melvyn - what is your experience of 'Tile Barn Anne'? I've had a plant for years which lives, but does not thrive.
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Gerry I find growing it pretty much the same as other C. mirabile I posted a photo of the flowers of one of my Tile Barn Anne on September 5th where you will see its doing ok. Perhaps you are just unlucky in having a plant of weak constitution?
edit by Maggi: the pic is here: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2893.msg108281#msg108281
« Reply #417 on: September 05, 2009, 05:47:30 PM on page 28 of this thread. :)
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Melvyn,
Absolutely glorious!! I so want to get a seedling that is correct of Tilebarn Anne. To have a full pink, shading to silver as it ages is just a wonderful idea. I've tried T. Anne from seed once and got nothing like that, and have a few nicholas that look like yours, one with a bit more silver (and therefore pink when young) than that. Each time I have received seed I have hoped for a solid silver version. ::) The pink on the T. Anne is brilliant!! :o
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Lots of leaves showing.
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Guff, your Cyclamen bed is making a magnificent carpet of leaves with flowers mingling - I wish I could do something similar and would appreciate any tips from your success and maybe a wider shot to show the situation if possible ::)
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Lots of leaves showing.
- and a lot of showy ones! Interesting shapes and coloration!
Gerd
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Great plants Melvyn and Guff, and many thanks for the information about "Tilebarn Anne", also thought it would be generally weaker than the others mirabile as for example "Tilebarn Jan" so I did not try to grow this superb plant.
Fred :o- important on my picture was Cyclamen graecum, I could not cut the Oncoleaves in the Background just for the photo ;) ;D
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Hello,
my best flowering of C rohlfsianum since many years!
All the best from Austria!
Herbert
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Lovely potfull Herbert.
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Looks very nice !!
congratulations
I'm a bit jalous as I've just lost mine this summer.... too dry :-[ :'(
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Bought today:
Cyclamen hederifolium 'White Cloud'
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Nice new plant, Wim. :)
I feel I must repeat the following photo of a roadside verge, full of Cyclamen hederifolium, in Corsica, pictured by Fred (Bulbissime) in the Arum thread : http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3373.75
just in case any cyclamen fans missed it there!
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Hello, my best flowering of C rohlfsianum since many years!
All the best from Austria! Herbert
Herbert - It looks so natural in the low clay pan with that gritty mix. Beautiful.
johnw
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Herbert , beautiful and large plant!
Took some pictures of the first leaves, hardly less attractive than the flowers.
C. persicum looks quite ordinary but I liked the red borderline at the edge of the leaves - it is the only one of a batch of seedlings (JJA) with this feature.
C.persicum - Rhodos
C.rohlfsianum - leaves
C.rohlfsianum - leaves2
C.graecum anatolicum L.
C.graecum var. album - Leaves
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Hans,
Wow, that graecum anatolicum is amazing!! Never seen a graecum even remotely like that. I have a few different leaf forms of graecum (they make such a nice looking plant, even when not in flower), but that one is amazing. :o That silvery leaf graecum album is nice too, but compare it to the anatolicum and it becomes much less so. ;D
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Fantastic shots of your Cyclamen leaves, Hans, giving such a clear idea of how you can create a situation where they follow a line of rocks like a river....thanks for the inspiration 8)
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Took some pictures of the first leaves, hardly less attractive than the flowers.
C. persicum looks quite ordinary but I liked the red borderline at the edge of the leaves - it is the only one of a batch of seedlings (JJA) with this feature.
C.persicum - Rhodos
C.rohlfsianum - leaves
C.rohlfsianum - leaves2
C.graecum anatolicum L.
C.graecum var. album - Leaves
They all look so extraordinary when grown outside!
Gerd
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Robin,
A friend of mine has a line of rocks mirroring the edge of her garden (about 8 inches inside the garden edge, but not perfectly following it) and she grow her Galanthus next to these rocks, between them and the garden edge. It creates a brilliant effect, one I've been thinking of doing myself if I can find the space somewhere. The rocks also serve to hold moisture and coolness under them I think in summer, too, so they help moderate the bulb temperatures. This helps somewhat in our climate I think.
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Here are some photos taken today rushing out..
africanum.jpg
africanum pink.jpg
afr. & hed..jpg
africanum & hederifolium.jpg
hed x africanum.jpg
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Good rohlfsianum forms, i have many plants of this species, each flower is different in color, form and size.
rohlfsianum special.jpg
rohlfsianum large flowers.jpg
rohlfsianum.jpg
graecum anatolicum.jpg
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Great display, great shots - thank you Oron!
Gerd
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Wow Oron! Your collection looks great!
How do you distinguish between C.africanum and C.hederifolium?
I see I must visit you ;)
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Thanks Miriam and Gerd,
Miriam you know the way to Tivon...you are most invited.
It is not that complicate to tell apart africanum and hederifolium, the problem are the many hybrids i get since they all grow together.
Here are 2 of my favorites, starting to flower now, [late autuman].
C. confusum and persicum var. autumnale [still in buds].
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:o :o :o and :o :o :o and :o :o :o
just wow!
hope you will show us C.persicum var. autumnale when it is in flower! :D
Oh sorry, I was so suprised by Orons photos I totally forgot I had also posted some and read the comments recently. Many thanks!
Paul I also love this leaves, for sure it is one of my best Cyclamen- it is a small plant but I hope it will be large one day and make loads of seeds.
Robin - as Paul mentioned I feel rocks/stones have positive effects to most plants I grow - just lifting of bulbs is hardly possible ::)
Gerd- I envy you for your C. colchicums I cannot grow here ! I still have not found such a nice fridge like Oron did. ;D ;)
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Oron, I can see why you describe the C. rohlfsianum as 'special', it is a superb flower colour and shape. A nice lot of buds coming on the plants too. Are you able to keep them in the open all year round?
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- While the crocus are very late this year in my garden, the silver leaves of this Cyclamen coum are already in full growth.
Thomas - A wonderful silver-leafed coum with the green central stripe.
johnw
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Thank all for these nice pics. Oron, I hope you obtain seeds of persicum autumnale !
C.h. white centre leaf
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Wow, I like that with the cream showing the veining and shape of the green surrounding :D
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Thanks everyone.
Robin, start raking leaves. They like leaf compost/worm castings.
Last pictures of the Dark Purple Hederifolium for this year. They do vary in color/darkness. Maybe an even darker one will show next August/Fall.
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Dominique,
I love that hed leaf.... interesting with the central silver surrounded by such broad green. As a mature plant that will look splendid.
Guff,
Brilliant colour to those dark ones. Not even close to that sort of colour here. Nice!
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Guff,
Brilliant colour to those dark ones. Not even close to that sort of colour here. Nice!
Guff,
According the pic you finally obtained a very good dark Cyclamen hederifolium!
Gerd
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your dark hederifolium looks lovely in the sunlight, Guff.
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My ancient Cyclamen africanum is still going strong.
johnw
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I found this nice Cyclamen hederifolium in a garden centre last week. The dark flowers and silvery leaves has been a combination that I had hoped to achieve by crossing some of my plants but someone has beaten me to it....
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Oron, I can see why you describe the C. rohlfsianum as 'special', it is a superb flower colour and shape. A nice lot of buds coming on the plants too. Are you able to keep them in the open all year round?
Melvyn
Yes, the species I have shown above are growing out in the garden all year round.
Species native to North Africa and the lower altitudes around the Mediterranean do well here.
Amazingly i grow out also C. purpurascens, coum caucasicum and lately even C. elegans.
It seems that species that grow in difficult habitats manage to adapt better to our hot and dry weather.
That is a great hederifolium, nice contrast of leaves and flower.
By the way i hardly ever get the flowers and leaves at the same time, so i put a label that indicates leaf color or pattern in order to know if a plants has good flower color as well as nice leaves.
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Thanks Hans.
I will post a photo when it is in full bloom,
hopfully the rain we had last week wont make them grow leaves at the same time.
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Fantastic pics and plants Oron.
Never heard before from C. persicum var autumnale ???
Where does it come from ??
And C. confusum ??
Anyway, great collection, congratulations !
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Cyclamen cyprium in flower which has a wonderful scent and a Cyclamen hederifolium with an unusal leaf marking flowering for the first time
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Nice photos and plants.
I bought some plants in Hungary and wonder if They are as stated C hederifolium.
I got 3 bulbs and one with 2 flowers none had roots but I hope they will do well and get them later.
I also show a picture taken with flash and hence slightly wrong colour of a plant growing in my garden in Hungary. It was identified on bad pictures last year as C purpurascens but with a better photo it might be a safer confirmation.
Can anyone confirm the names?
Kind regards
Joakim
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Joakim, the identification is correct. The picture on the package is also showing the correct content, sadly not always the case,and the growth on the tubers shows it is that of Cyclamen hederifolium. The last photo is of Cyclamen purpurascens so was correctly identified before.
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Fantastic pics and plants Oron.
Never heard before from C. persicum var autumnale ???
Where does it come from ??
And C. confusum ??
Anyway, great collection, congratulations !
Fred
You need to join the Cyclamen Society and then you can be really Confusumed ;) Our latest Journal introduces further names and some plants labelled Confusum will require a new name. I am totally confused myself, even though the Journal articles are well researched.
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Thanks or the help with identification Melvyn.
I have still not got the feeling/ knowledge to separate the different species.
I will try to find a good Cyclamen book/website where it is described well.
Does anyone have any suggestions of books websites?
Kind regards
Joakim
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Cyclamen by Christopher Grey- Wilson. Barnes & Noble
http://www.tilebarn-cyclamen.co.uk/
http://www.cyclamen.org/indexCS.html
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Thank's Arthur !!
I have some litterature but species appears, disappears, reappears, ....sometimes, I HATE botanists ;) ::)
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Thanks everyone.
I have 56 seedlngs of the dark purple that I planted out below my Hellebore's. Out of the 56, 6 or 7 seedlings had flowers. Next August/Fall maybe an even darker one will show.
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Thanks for the information Michael. I hope this will help to get me a bit more educated :)
Kind regards
Joakim
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Thank's Arthur !!
I have some litterature but species appears, disappears, reappears, ....sometimes, I HATE botanists ;) ::)
Just leave your labels the same ,ignore the new names and wait.The old ones then come around again when somebody wants to get there name in print.Patience is all thats required.
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Thanks everyone.
I have 56 seedlngs of the dark purple that I planted out below my Hellebore's. Out of the 56, 6 or 7 seedlings had flowers. Next August/Fall maybe an even darker one will show.
Guff, your photo shows such a happy community of Cyclamen! I love the way you have them carpeting an area in front of the Hellebores and the dark purple first flowers are glorious in the dappled light - thanks so much for sharing your success ad inspiring me to find the right spot to grow them here :D
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I was given this lovely C. rohlfsianum recently, and to my amazement it appears to be growing a leaf from the place the seeds eventually locate. Does anyone know why this may have happened?
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I was given this lovely C. rohlfsianum recently, and to my amazement it appears to be growing a leaf from the place the seeds eventually locate. Does anyone know why this may have happened?
Now that is bizarre.
I wonder if the pod has the capacity to root when it touches the soil.
I am amazed to see such a wonderfully compact rohlfsianum at the Ponteland show. My three have very long petioles that stretch out more than 6" beyond the pot - and that's in full light at latitude 44+. I grow mine lean. What's the trick to keeping them compact like this?
johnw - heavy rain yet again, seems every 5 days we get an inch or more.
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I'll keep you posted, John about mine. I've only just taken possession of it and love the foliage, so I'm hoping I can show it one day, but if it does this weird thing with the leaves coming out of the flowers (another flower is showing signs of doing exactly the same thing) it won't be something for a show bench, more's the pity.
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I was given this lovely C. rohlfsianum recently, and to my amazement it appears to be growing a leaf from the place the seeds eventually locate. Does anyone know why this may have happened?
Chris - the transformation of floral parts into leaves is not uncommon in plants, though I have never heard of it in cyclamen. One of the first people to observe this - in the 18th cent. - was the poet, botanist, statesman & polymath, J.W. Goethe who used it as the basis to argue (in 'The Metamorphosis of Plants') that all the organs of flowering plants were fundamentally the same. Some modern biologists think he was right. I posted about this earlier this year with some of Goethe's illustrations of tulips in which leaves & floral parts had transformed into each other**.
** http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2945.msg69405#msg69405
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I'll take a read of that when I'm more alert, Gerry. Thanks for your input. It looks really curious. I wonder if it will do it again next year?
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Some more Cyclamen this morning,
Surprisingly the double form C. rholfsianum seems to be a constant feature, last year it had one flower, this year four, all doubled.
First C. persicum var. autumnale to flower.
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Lovely, Oron, your C. graecum album is especially lovely in that leafy setting :)
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All good stuff, Folks!
but I'm particularly intrigued by the autumn flowering C. persicum! Where is this one from, Oron?
cheers
fermi
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:o - Oron, as usual superb plants - I love this Cyclamen persicum, a real gem, but also this double Cyclamen rohlfsianum! :o - I was not aware double Cyclamen exist - a very fine plant.
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Wonderful, Oron. I rather like the "double" Cyclamen for it's quirkiness, rather than for it's appearance. ;D I wonder what it's seedlings will flower like? I love that persicum form. So many flowers on your rohlfsianum!!! :o :o All very nice.
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Oron,
Thanks for these superb pics! Nice to see the autumn flowering persicum the first time.
Gerd
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All good stuff, Folks!
but I'm particularly intrigued by the autumn flowering C. persicum! Where is this one from, Oron?
cheers
fermi
Thank you all,
Fermi,
Cyclamen persicum varieta autumnale grows mainly in Israel but also in the Golan Heights [Syria], it has been reported a few years ago from Lebanon, around Beirut and since i have seen some colonies close to the border with Jordan i'm certain it grows also at its NW part.
It starts to bloom without leaves in Mid October, about two months before the species its self, before it receives any rainfall.
I'm not a botanist nor a taxonomist, but since it has several characters that differs it from the common species i would think it merits upgrading to a subspecies level, but that is not for me to decide.
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Wonderful, Oron. I rather like the "double" Cyclamen for it's quirkiness, rather than for it's appearance. ;D I wonder what it's seedlings will flower like?
:o - Oron, as usual superb plants - I love this Cyclamen persicum, a real gem, but also this double Cyclamen rohlfsianum! :o - I was not aware double Cyclamen exist - a very fine plant.
Paul and Hans,
Double forms occur very rarely, i have read in books, also in Cyclamen by Christopher Grey-Wilson that double forms are usually sterile, but in my experience they are fertile.
I had a magnificent C. persicum [wild form] with 12 petals that grew and set seeds regularly for three years, i almost cried when it passed away ;)
Any way i have about 60 seedlings from it but so far the maximum are 7 petals forms but not all have matured yet so hopfully this year a copy of the parent will appear.
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I was going through the Cyclamen hederifolium seedlings today to assess by foliage. Only two stand out.
A lobed leaf one - 1 & 2 and a white flowered one with particularly bright silvering 3 & 4.
johnw
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John what lovely variants they are.
Hope they grow well for You.
Joakim
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The purpurasecens seedling in my post #516 has finally put up another leaf. Unfortunately is not quite the same as the almost lobeless one before, silver saucer would have been a great name for that one. I think it will now have to be called mickey mouse as the lobes stand perpendicular to the leaf. Very strange. No doubt another name will be needed for the next leaf.
johnw
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One of the main reasons I grow Cyclamen is the decorative foliage. Attached are some older seedlings, which clearly show their relationship, yet are all different. Sorry that some are poorly focused.
Cyclamen hederadifolium
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A wonderful variety you have there Jamie.
We had a two year old purpurascens seedling send out leaves this year which had what appeared to be the promise of yellow markings. The markings were very small and nothing special but they quickly changed to silver. I wonder if any Cyclamen has the potential to have yellow or gold markings. ???
johnw
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John,
thanks for the kind words. In reference to yellow markings, I don't really see why not, as yellow in the leaves is often the changing of chlorophyll into chloroplasts, which are yellow. At some point, the mutation should arise.
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Also, perhaps the result of a slow release fertilizer I used in my mix last autumn, the leaves of purpurascens (shot #1) and rohlfsianum (shot #2) are a tad over-sezed this year.
This Cyclamen graecum (shots #3 & 4) was given to me by a friend who was moving away. The leaf pattern is very different than my other graecums which are more or less plain green. Wiould anyone care to hazard an identification?
Clean-up time on the cyclamen in pots. At this time of year fallen flowers and aborted flower stems seem to rot quickly and get botrytis. I don't know if it is this climate or if others elsewhere have the same problem. A shot of Rovral seems to do the trick after removal of the messy parts
johnw
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And a couple more hederifolium seedling finds.
On the first one (1 & 2) I particularly like the pale green interior. The third was labelled "very strange heart-shaped 08" last year, it seems to be deveoping a few lobes this year. There may be some markings but they haven't developed yet. I'll try to remember to photograph it when more fully developed.
johnw
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Oron, very nice flowers and I agree with others regarding this autumnale form of C. persicum.
I don't really like double forms but I LOVE the white graecum :o
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Evening All,
Cyclamen pseudibericum, flowering here at present!! Flash was required at the time as wasn't the best light conditions.
Please click on the pic for a larger version.
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A well-flowered plant, Paul. Must have a nice scent!
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Anne,
I don't recall it being perfumed, but I'll have to check.
Just a note that I have also corrected the name of it, that I had spelt incorrectly (and I notice I made the same mistake in the name on the picture too.... too many i's, not enough e's ;D THanks for the correction, Hans.)
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A late Cyclamen hederifolium whose flowers have stayed squat, leaves still undeveloped. Also C. mirabile Tilebarn Nicholas today.
johnw
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The variety of leaf shapes and patterns in Cyclamen hederifolium is significantly better than a few years ago, the following are some of the variations in pots under glass with me at the moment.
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After collecting seed from the plants shown in my last post I throw some on bare patches in the garden, the following four photos show some of this years plants now two years old.
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Fabulous, Melvyn. Have you done any deliberate crossings?
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Hello Diane, no just left to the usual pollinators to do their thing.
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Melvyn,
There are a few to die for...
Real masterpieces.
Thanks for showing them.
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Melvyn - Where would one start to get such wonderful silver forms of hederifolium, especially long leaf, that is to say possible parents from seed? I have grown seed of Bowle's Apollo, Nettleton Silver and the like and rarely do I get anything as good or better than the original parent.
An absolutely smashing collection. ;D
johnw
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These are amazing Melvyn - some of them rival the best of C. graecum.
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Words are missing Melyn, even the word "extraordinary" does not fit with your plants. Some of the best Cyclamenleaves I have ever seen! Thanks for sharing this fantastic pics!
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These are amazing Melvyn - some of them rival the best of C. graecum.
oh, better, much better ;D 8)
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Wonderfull as usual Melvyn. ::) ::) ::)
Eric
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Melvyn,
I had no idea hederafolium could take on such patterns. Wow. I need to find some silver-leafed forms to add to my bed.
thanks for sharing these,
jamie
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CRAZY !!!! :o :o
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I can only echo all the above praises Melvyn !
An awesome selection !!! :o :o
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Many thanks for all your appreciative remarks, I think Cyclamen hederifolium still has a lot of potential for even more variety especially with the new red and darker flowers that are becoming available.One of the great pleasures of growing these from seed, each Autumn something new to look at.
John I think the answer to your question is to get your seed from as good a source as possible and sow as much as you can until you start getting good plants.
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Melvyn - I suppose ruthless selection and segragation would help too. I guess maybe some of the plants here might have the potential to get going on this.
Thanks again for the photos which have me flabbergasted.
johnw
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Stunning, Melvyn. I think my favourite would be CHed7 for the wonderful shape and contrasts, but there are very, very nice ones amongst the others as well. So many combinations I've not seen before. Great stuff!! 8)
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The variety of leaf shapes and patterns in Cyclamen hederifolium is significantly better than a few years ago, the following are some of the variations in pots under glass with me at the moment.
Melvyn
Wow ! Marvellous especially n°8 and 7. Thank you very very much
Dom
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I am currently looking after 2 of the Cyclamen Society's plants - previously looked after by Kath Dryden.
I think this plant is similar to the leaf shown by Melvyn Ched3 The flowers and leaves make a wonderful plant. So far no sign of seed set :(
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Gorgeous plant Art !!
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Melvyn, your leaf forms are an inspiration, especially the silver ones for me although the all green with toothed edging is very pretty too - a Master at work is wonderful to see and to be mesmerised by your results, thankyou :D
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Arthur that's a great plant, fantastic contrast Leaves/flowers.
Here are two more persicum var. autumnale
One of its characters which differs it from the common species is the undefined, prolonged auricle that covers about 1/3 to 2/3 of the petal.
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Oron
I like the first plant very much - so elegant a flower.
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Arthur and Oron, the plants you show are superb!
All this incredibly plants shown in this thread make me think I am only at the beginning of my small Cyclamencollection... ::) :-\ ;)
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Hans
The more you sow the better the choice - and the faster the collection grows.
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Fantastic pictures Oron, Cyclamen are incredibly graceful, like Hans, I allready have some species, but need to increase the collection by seeds too
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Oron I think the first C. persicum var. autumnale is superb, what a lovely flower shape. When we were on the Cyclamen Society field trip in February 1990 we collected mature seed from this var at Duma junction, as far as I am aware none of the plants resulting from this produced flowers anything like as good as yours.
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Do the Cyclamen species have various life expectancies? I just tossed two rubbery coums, one from 1980 and the other 1988. No apparent cause of death.
C. graecum, persicum, hederifolium and rohlfsianum from the early 80's are still growing vigorously.
johnw
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Have anyone heard of the strand/type of Cyclamen hederifolium Amaze Me that is now for sale in a Swedish do garden center chain.
They look nice but I do not know if it is what stated since they talk about hardiness to zone 8-10 and that is not much for this species if I have read correctly.
Photos of the plants can be found on this Swedish forum. Not my plants or photos.
http://www.tradgardsamatorerna.nu/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=810
Any comments if they are as hardy as the "normal ones" are appreciated and if they are as supplied.
Kind regards
Joakim
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Hans
The more you sow the better the choice - and the faster the collection grows.
Thanks Arthur - this year I sow only a few pots of Cyclamen. Now it will a bit late to get seeds of the more outstanding Cyclamen - but next year I will give it a try ... :)
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The range of leaf variation in Cyclamen rohlfsianum improved dramatically following a visit to Libya by Manfred Koenen about twenty years ago when he was able to introduce new genetic material. Prior to that most of the plants in the UK came as a result of the collection made by Jim Archibald under his collection JCA499. Most of my plants have now finished flowering but the leaves should continue to look good for a few more months.
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fantatstic colours and patterns !!
thank's for sharing !
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Melvyn,
another group of gorgeous variants. Wow! Is this species (C. rohlfsianum) hardy in Zone 8 or colder?
jamie
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Melvyn
Forgive my ignorance but I have a question.
How much protection from frost do you give C rohlfsianum. I was given some nice forms last year (including some which match those you show,) but I struggled through the harshest part of the winter in my unheated greenhouse. Looks like I lost a couple of plants while others lost leaves but survived. How much water in summer would you advise ... I am growing them alongside C graecum which does well with my care regime.
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Melvyn,
Beautiful leaf forms. I have some variation in mine, but nowhere near as much silver as your 1, 4 and 5 pics which are all absolutely to die for. ;D Fascinating plants. If you grew yours from seed..... did yours all appear green until their third season? I had them all green for their first two years then they started getting some markings after that. Some are quite intricately marked now, but I always remember that there was no evidence of it for the first years and I thought they were all green. ::) I was quite disappointed at the time, but was still happy to be growing the species at all. When the markings started to appear I was even happier. ;D ;D
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Melvyn, I'm speechless ::)
I see i should come soon for 'shopping' in the UK.
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Another amazing series Melvyn !! :o :o
Gorgeous leaf forms !
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My new coum bed is looking good so far, I even have a flower open.
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Congratulations, Guff 8)
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Melvyn
Forgive my ignorance but I have a question.
How much protection from frost do you give C rohlfsianum. I was given some nice forms last year (including some which match those you show,) but I struggled through the harshest part of the winter in my unheated greenhouse. Looks like I lost a couple of plants while others lost leaves but survived. How much water in summer would you advise ... I am growing them alongside C graecum which does well with my care regime.
Tony, my C. rohlfsianum are also growing alongside C. graecum. I do have an electric fan heater and try to keep the temperature just above freezing, I dont think I always achieved it last winter and did lose one large plant. I think part of the key is the watering so that you avoid having the plant too wet when the weather turns colder, I will probably not water mine direct into the pots again now so except for keeping the sand damp on which the pots stand they will be a little dryer through the colder months. The balance required is to give them enough moisture so that the seed pods dont abort. I should have said that my plants are given a good soaking in late August to start them off and only given water again if the weather is really hot. Perhaps using fleece over the foliage in really cold weather would give your plants a little more protection?
Hope this helps.
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I like CHep8 on post 645. Lovely arrow-shaped leaves.
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Cyclamen Hederifolium confusum
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Wow, Michael. Cracker of a leaf form!! :o
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I agree, really superb :D
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I agree with Paul and Robin, Michael ! An exceptionally atractive leaf form !! :D
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Very striking, and very well grown.
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Michael - Tis a beauty! :o
johnw
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hi, looking at all those nice pics,
I would like to add some more:
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this C. persicum is a little bit 'out of schedule'.
in spring it was damaged by Bothrytis and leaves and flowers failed.
over the summer it made new leaves and just begins to flower.
Its a seedling of 'TB Karpathos'
(http://www.bildercache.de/bild/20091031-140656-554.jpg)
and this is lovely C. mirabile 'TB Anne'
(http://www.bildercache.de/bild/20091031-140656-713.jpg)
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These plants are looking very good for you in Germany, Dieter .....how has your weather been?
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.....how has your weather been?
not "very british" ;D
it was very dry over summer here.
the "problem" with the persicum was in the greenhouse........
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1) not "very british" ;D
it was very dry over summer here.
2) the "problem" with the persicum was in the greenhouse........
1) ....I thought as much! ;D
2) .... I thought as much. :'(
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today first flowers on my
Cyclamen X wellensiekii
grown from seeds ex C.S. 2006
This is a hybrid between C.libanotiucum X C. cyprium - first descripetet from Prof. Wellensiek
Hans 8)
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Wow, Hans, a real beauty - congratulations :D
Love the crimson markings on the flower and leaf - a work of art 8)
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Very nice series Goofy !! Some exellent hederifoliums !!! 8)
Hans, a superb flower on x wellensiekii - as Robin, I find the markings awesome !! :o
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I do not normally like aberrant forms of Cyclamen but found this C. hederifolium among many thousand in a nursery and decided I quite like it. I wonder if it will be consistent.
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Oh, dear, Melvyn, that looks like a snowdrop with a nasty carbuncle! :-X ;)
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Unfortunately it wont be consistent. here is one of mine that did this for a year but was normal the next.
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I do not normally like aberrant forms of Cyclamen but found this C. hederifolium among many thousand in a nursery and decided I quite like it. I wonder if it will be consistent.
Melvyn - That looks painful, I would be inclined to consult NHS Direct.
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Clearly it wants to be a snowdrop Michael. 8)
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Clearly it wants to be a snowdrop Michael. 8)
And a double at that!
johnw
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Michael,
What a shame. That would be a fantastically unusual Cyclamen if it stayed like that. I must admit to buying a C. persicum for the same reason at a nursery a few years ago, but it went back to normal the next year unfortunately. ::)
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Michael, such a nice looking plant, a real pity it did not stay like that.
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Robin & Luc :D
Many thanks for your compliments
Hans 8)
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Cyclamen X wellensiekii
This is a hybrid between C.libanotiucum X C. cyprium - first descripetet from Prof. Wellensiek
Hans,
This is a rather nice hybrid, isn't it!! 8) Yo ucan see the influences of each parent in shape and markings etc. It looks like quite an elegant flower too. Very nice!
Out of interest, do seedlings from this throw back to both parents? Do you end up with further intermediaries that shift further and further towards both of the parents? No, I am not asking for seed, just intrigued as to what these do when their own seed is grown on. Did you make the cross between the two yourself?
Thanks very much for the pics. :)
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Thank you Paul ;)
This is a interesting question ....I had the same question before many years ....
A nice friend ( who is breeding Cyclamen ) told me it is not possibly with making seeds from this hybrids .
If you will have such plants so you have to make a new cross with both parents ( in this case cyprium x libanoticum ).
I have also sown in last years:
X meiklei ( creticum x repandum )
X hildebrandii ( africanum x hederifolium )
elegans x alpinum
creticum x peleponnesiacum
X schwarzii ( libanoticum x pseudibericum )
X wellensiekii ( plain leaf )
X wellensiekii F2
X wellensiekii ex org. Wellensiek
X drydeniae ( coum x alpinum )
X saundersii ( balearicum x repandum )
now I have to wait ::)
Hans
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Wow, Hans. That is going to be some collection. I had x saundersii I bought as a tuber many years ago, but it died out one year. I might make note of some of those crosses and try them myself next year. I didn't realise so many species would hybridise. I wonder if my balearicum is still in flower..... I know the repandum are (including some from seed from you as it happens!! ;D)
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A long leaf silver hederifolium here. A whole row of them was labelled pseudibericum var. roseum. How many times have I collected from them when dormant and sent seed to the exchanges as pseudibericum? I trust I shall be forgiven. Hopefully someone got something decent.
Luckily I discovered the mistake this year after sending to the exchanges and all were able to relabel them.
johnw
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I really like that combination of the arrow leaf colour and markings and the rosey flower, John 8)
Looks as if the flowers are held on shortish stalks or is it just an illusion with the leaf pointing upwards?
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Looks as if the flowers are held on shortish stalks or is it just an illusion with the leaf pointing upwards?
Robin - I think just an illusion as the leaves are just emerging.
johnw
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Small things to make me happy
Seedlings of C persicum from the florist appearing the same year as the mother plant flowers in Portugal. I do not know how quick they generally are but I like that they are so quick here.
They all looks "the same" but I hope they will differ later. Is the first foliage also typical of the colours of the coming foliage?
The whole 32 cm (14") pot is pull of seedlings even after the mother plants seems to have died. I sprinkled some extra seeds from other plants as well.
Kind regards
Joakim
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A long leaf silver hederifolium here. A whole row of them was labelled pseudibericum var. roseum. How many times have I collected from them when dormant and sent seed to the exchanges as pseudibericum? I trust I shall be forgiven. Hopefully someone got something decent.
Luckily I discovered the mistake this year after sending to the exchanges and all were able to relabel them.
johnw
nice form, john; i know you've said hederifolium is not reliably hardy for you, so do these stay in the greenhouse?
i was tempted recently by a really nice silver leafed florist's cyclamen, but it was in a 'fancy' pot for fall season (a ceramic pumpkin!) at an inflated price!
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here proudly presents :
Cyclamen persicum f. autumnale
Thats my first flower after some years from sowing !!!
...I hope in next year more
Seeds received in year 2005 from a nice friend from Israel :D
Hans 8)
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Congrats Hans !
Looks very nice indeed !
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Nice, Hans. I love the twisting petals. Nice leaves too. Congratulations! 8)
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Beautiful plant, beautiful photos!
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Hans
A very nice plant - certainly worth the wait.
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Hi all ;D
Thank you for your compliments ....but please think :
without swapping seeds with nice friends is this not possibly !!!
Hans 8)
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A wonderful way to cheer up the end of the year, Hans, your newly flowering Cyclamen from seed is so pretty and I love the strong markings on the leaf 8)
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Fantastic Hans... i feel like a proud father... :D
Staying with C. persicum, here are some good leaf forms.
I named the silvery center 'Persian Beauty' which is allready in commerce by Jan Bravenboer.
The curly one named 'Begonia Leaf'.
Both originated in the wild.
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Bravo and thank you Hans and nice father friend really
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;D ;D ;D
Oron I hope you had with my seeds also succses ???
Hans 8)
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Hello Oron,
Superb leaf forms on your persicum but not sure about the curly one!
Thanks for showing them.
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Wow, Oron. Fantastic!! Hopefully some of them make it over here to Australia one of these years as well. At least if they are in commerce there is a chance of it. Thanks for the great pics.
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:o :o :o Oron - where did you find them? This C. persicum do not seem to be of this world. ;)
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Hello Oron,
Superb leaf forms on your persicum but not sure about the curly one!
Thanks for showing them.
Melvyn , I'm not sure either, but it is so uncommon that i keep it any way.
Some of its offsprings looks much better dough.
Hans,
I find these just walking in my area,
when undisturbed there are places carpeted with C. persicum and it quite easy to notice good leaf forms.
My biggest problem is to isolate them in order to receive identical offsprings.
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I have been this October to Italy for to look for cyclamen hederifolium. It was in the area of the lago di Bolsena. My first plants of this species were from this place (about twentyfive years ago). A forested area was cut down near the lake shore for houses and farmland. Great heaps of dark earth were shoved about by caterpillars. The cyclamen tubers lay about like potatoes on a field, probably millions.
I took a few :-\
This time I visited this place again I saw 5 plants nearby in a hedge. Maybe some more left in the thickets.
Of course none at the original place.
But there were a lot blooming in the surrounding hills. I took some pictures, of flowers and leafs. They were quite variable. The first four pictures are leafs very close by each other (about 6 feet). The fifth was 30 meters away. The last some twenty kilometers away.
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It was a protected area. If I get the chance I will collect a few seeds next time ;D
Some places (not protected)were littered with plastic garbage. I had to clear them for my pictures.
People told me there are at the same places spring flowering cyclamen (probably C.repandum). Maybe I will be early enough there to see them one day.
The following pictures are at some ordinary places in the hills around the lake.
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Nice pics of them in the wild, Axel. Thanks.
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Servus Axel!
Nice to see those hederifolium carpets in Italy. I've been there in spring 2008
(http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1628.0) and can confirm the
locals about Cyclamen repandum - they are growing everywhere in the woods,
but not as compact as your hederifoliums.
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Very nice to see such variation in foliage on wild plants thanks Axel 8) ::)
Nice to see the flowering ones as well.
Hope You will be able to visit in the spring
Kind regards
Joakim
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Hello Axel, thanks for showing the Cyclamen hederifolium at Lago di Bolsena, always interesting to see the varying leaf shapes from different locations.
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Thank you Thomas Huber for your pictures of the C.repandum. I found just one repandum flowering in October (wrong time though). It had the darker colour like in your picture and no little ears at the flowermouth (?) like the C. hederifolium. It distinctly looked like yours. ;D
Another mystery solved. Unluckily the only picture I took was blurred. :P
But now I know what they look like thanks :D :D :D
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Three Cyclamen species in flower today.
C. persicum ssp autumnale from seed I collected at Duma Junction Israel in February 1990.
( I think not as good as yours Oron !)
C. colchicum, I am only just getting used to what this and the next species like when trying to grow them in pots, its all to do with the amount of water, copious amounts in warmer weather.
C.purpurascens, a form with good colour flowers.
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Nice to see the Persicum, I bet that brings back a few memories of the trip to Israel.
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Melvyn
nice to see the C. colchicum. Mine flowered in July but they are probably easier here in my (I was going to say moist) sopping wet climate. Only a couple of inches of rain today.
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Melvyn
nice to see the C. colchicum. Mine flowered in July but they are probably easier here in my (I was going to say moist) sopping wet climate. Only a couple of inches of rain today.
My Cyclamen colchicum flowered just the same time like yours - without enjoying your wet conditions, Tony.
Melvyn - where are you? Anywhere around the arctic circle? ;)
Excellent C. persicum - my one and only plant doesn't well!
Gerd
Gerd
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Hello Gerd,
It felt close to the Arctic Circle when I was out walking our dog this afternoon!,
actually my home is very near the RHS gardens at Wisley in SE England so I guess growing conditions/climate not a lot different from yours in Solingen.
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Fantastic Hans... i feel like a proud father... :D
Staying with C. persicum, here are some good leaf forms.
I named the silvery center 'Persian Beauty' which is allready in commerce by Jan Bravenboer.
The curly one named 'Begonia Leaf'.
Both originated in the wild.
these are beautiful! and make me a little confused about the rather humdrum forms most common in commerce ??? whey sell the boring ones when nature provides such excellent material? now i am more sure than ever that i 'need' some cyclamen seed to grow indoors...lol
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Melvyn,
That persicum ssp autumnale is excellent. Elegant flowers and good leaves. Great combination.
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I was happy to find this Cyclamen cilicium few years ago in a Dutch nursery.
Now it is very happy in my rockgarden.
In the past ciliciums always struggle for life in our garden.But they show me were they want to grow.
Seedlings germinate on a spot they like and that spot was between rocks and in crevices.
Now they do very well in the rockgarden ........
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Looks very nice Kris !
I didn't think C. cilicium could survide outside here !
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Luc
Cyclamen cilicium is reliably hardy in most gardens. You should try it.
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Luc
Cyclamen cilicium is reliably hardy in most gardens. You should try it.
Indeed, it has been flowering here now for over a month ;)
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Very attractive and unusual leaf Kris, I like the faint pink blush as well as the pattern.
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Kris very nice congratulation and well done.
Is the rock garden protected from above by a tree or similar or do the cyclamen get rain on-top of them directly?
Maybe most has seen it already but here in the seed part of the forum is described how to sow seeds of Cyclamen
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4584.0
Kind regards
Joakim
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Distorted leaves on Cyclamen persicum var. autumnale -
Unfortunately most of the leaves of my one and only plant of the autumn flowering variety started like the smaller one shown here. Some of them grow to a normal size but a little bit later all wilt.
Although I never came along them - I guess the cyclamen mite caused the problem.
I would be glad if there is a grower of cyclamen who could tell me whether I'm right or if there could be another reason for this phenomenon.
Gerd
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Kris very nice congratulation and well done.
Is the rock garden protected from above by a tree or similar or do the cyclamen get rain on-top of them directly?
Joakim
Thanks Joakim
We have a very sunny rockgarden.There are no trees .I have different ciliciums on different spots in the rockgarden.They not like to much wet I suppose but between the rocks and crevices they get no to much.
Most of them get no protection against to much rain (we get in winter a lot of rain most of the years).
The result is that most of them are not so pretty in the (late) autumn/winter.They survive and flower well but the leaves never looks very good under that condition in some years.So now I protect the ones with the best leaves......against to much rain from above........Looks very nice Kris !
I didn't think C. cilicium could survide outside here !
You must try this one Luc.If they thrive in our area ,I suppose they wil grow also in your part of the country as you are living more in the direction of the coast ?
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Very attractive and unusual leaf Kris, I like the faint pink blush as well as the pattern.
Thanks Melvyn .
I 'm proud about this plant.Most of the cilicium-leaves are a bit dull ,but we allways looking for the exciting ones......
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Today by controll one pot os my Cyclamen I found one of this beasties which kills by night my Cyclamen leaves and flowers .....
In Germany I think we call this Eulenraupen .....maybe Anthony can help us with the correct name ???
Have other members this pest too ?
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Hans - I have had this pest. I call them 'cutworms' but I am not sure if this is correct. They seem to hide in the soil by day & emerge at night. I think they are the caterpillars of winter moths but Anthony will know for certain.
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I am having problems with this caterpillar at the moment too,it is an Angle Shades Moth (Phlogophora meticulosa) caterpillar and I usually get an infestation about this time of year. I find that looking for them at night with a torch is usually effective, carefully look on the underside of the leaf because they drop off at the slightest movement, they usually hide in grit during the day. The species worst affected seem to be Cyclamen graecum and C. persicum.
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Hans,
Don't know the latin name but ' Eulenraupe ' is correct - cutworm also. If you hesitate to use an insecticide start a search in the neighbourhood of the damaged plant (don't forget the soil) and catch/kill the little beasty.
Distorted leaves on Cyclamen persicum var. autumnale -
Unfortunately most of the leaves of my one and only plant of the autumn flowering variety started like the smaller one shown here. Some of them grow to a normal size but a little bit later all wilt.
Although I never came along them - I guess the cyclamen mite caused the problem.
I would be glad if there is a grower of cyclamen who could tell me whether I'm right or if there could be another reason for this phenomenon.
Gerd
By the way - no solution for my problem?
Gerd
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Hi ,
thank you to all !
It seems I'm not alone with this problem .
I use the same methode like Melvyn ...by nigth with a torch and a long pinzette .....
I dont believe that any insecticides work ....
Gerd : I think you have to use a Akarcid like Kiron or anything .....
Thank you to all
Hans
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Could this be mites too. One of ten plants is affected.
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I use the same methode like Melvyn ...by nigth with a torch and a long pinzette .....
I dont believe that any insecticides work ....
Hans
In my experience insecticides do not work once the beasts reach this size. When I had a bad infestation some years ago I captured some of these pests & put them in plastic boxes with various insecticides - both powder & liquid. They were unaffected.
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Cyclamen purpurascens is still in flower in my rockgarden! (picture 1) It is november ........Global warming?
In the glasshouse the first persicum starts to flower .
My silver creticum start to make some buds. (picture 2)
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I found this cyclamen at my favourite florist yesterday. A fascinating form which, assumedly, the flowers remain only partially opened due to the enlarged calyx-like growth. I rather like the umbrellas of deep cyclamen purple. I take it this is a C. persicum selection.
Sorry for the lousy foto. It is so overcast out, a good shot is impossible. Manno, I hate dark, wet, cold weather!
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.....
I dont believe that any insecticides work ....
Hans
Hans, I'm quite sure pyrethroides do - please google for Karate Zeon (Lambda-Cyhalotrin). It is effective even during colder weather.
Another question is - is it worth the trouble to spray?
Thank's for the hint concerning the Cyclamen - I treated with an acaricide!
Gerd
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Gerd ,
I have looked today on a database for plant protection :
all this insecticides against Eulenraupen are not allowed for private gardeners .
I agree with you ...it is not worth the trouble !
Yesterday I have conrolled all my pots of Cyclamen .....I saw no other cutworms ( but I suppose there are any )
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I think the caterpillar above is that of a yellow under wing. The caterpillar sleeps by day in pot contents
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That is what I also found out : Noctua pronuba
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I think the caterpillar above is that of a yellow under wing. The caterpillar sleeps by day in pot contents
Happy to defer to your greater knowledge Mark, I jumped to the conclusion having identified what had been eating my cyclamen leaves in previous years. One thing is sure whichever species are guilty the method of control is very effective but only partly satisfying as by the time they are caught the damage has been done and with Cyclamen graecum and C. persicum the chances of new leaves being produced at this time of year is slim.
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I fear there are a number of these night active caterpillars about, from various species.....you should hear the BD on the subject..... makes him VERY ratty :o :P :-X
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a couple of years ago one of these caterpillars destroyed my scoliopus halli
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I found this cyclamen at my favourite florist yesterday. A fascinating form which, assumedly, the flowers remain only partially opened due to the enlarged calyx-like growth. I rather like the umbrellas of deep cyclamen purple. I take it this is a C. persicum selection.
Sorry for the lousy foto. It is so overcast out, a good shot is impossible. Manno, I hate dark, wet, cold weather!
Jamie,
Here's hoping that it returns that way next year as well. Unfortunately so often they don't, as a few of us have bought interesting ones where the flowers don't open fully, only to have them opn normally the next year. It would be fantastic if yours did stay that way.... such lovely broad petals that it makes a wonderful display. Good luck.
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I found this cyclamen at my favourite florist yesterday. A fascinating form which, assumedly, the flowers remain only partially opened due to the enlarged calyx-like growth. I rather like the umbrellas of deep cyclamen purple. I take it this is a C. persicum selection.
Sorry for the lousy foto. It is so overcast out, a good shot is impossible. Manno, I hate dark, wet, cold weather!
Jamie,
Here's hoping that it returns that way next year as well. Unfortunately so often they don't, as a few of us have bought interesting ones where the flowers don't open fully, only to have them opn normally the next year. It would be fantastic if yours did stay that way.... such lovely broad petals that it makes a wonderful display. Good luck.
Jamie and Paul
It should keep this feature, it is a cultivar produced years ago by Sahin who named it 'Whirlygig'.
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Thanks, Oron,
now it has a name. It does make a wonderful display of colour, Paul, and there were quite a few identical plants offered, assumedly it is a clone or very good seed strain. I'm going to self the blossoms to see if I get seed.
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I didn't realise there were more than one, and that there were stable variants of this. Great to hear. So I am assuming that this must grow true from seed? Or do they have a method of tissue culture mass production of Cyclamen?
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I didn't realise there were more than one, and that there were stable variants of this. Great to hear. So I am assuming that this must grow true from seed? Or do they have a method of tissue culture mass production of Cyclamen?
It is a good strain that comes 100% true from seeds.
Seeds are available commercially, Thompson & Morgan listed it for some years in their catalog.
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Wow!! :o :o
Jamie, at least you know you can make more of them for your collection now. :D
Is it perfumed at all? I have one of the smaller (sort of halfway between miniature and the large type florist persicums) that has a strong perfume to it. I had it at a horticultural display a few months ago in full flower and you could smell it quite clearly Lovely white flowers with magenta edge. Unlike most of the other persicums I have, or have had, this one sets seed prolifically by itself. I was asked to collect some seed for a friend as she wanted to try for some perfumed seedlings, but it looks like nearly every flower set seed. I hadn't intended to leave them all on, but never got around to cutting most of them off. Now I am wondering whether the perfume and colourations will be dominant or recessive. I know they're so heavily bred that the chances are the seedlings will look nothing like the parent, but I am hoping the perfume will be passed on.
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Paul,
I've not noted any fragrance. Like you, I've noticed the semi-minis often have a strong perfume, but not all of them. A bit of catch as catch can and a pinch of luck. They are also somewhat hardy in Cologne, handling -5 in most cases. I don't think pure C. persicum can handle this, though I have never tried.
I'll keep you in mind should the seed set.
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Jamie,
My understanding is that all of these florist ones ARE pure persicum. They've been selected for size etc, but a while back I read that there hasn't been hybridising into the line, just selection for size, colour, frilliness etc. I have no idea what the straight wild species would survive, but it is i guess unsurprising that the hardiness has increased by natural selection in colder areas.
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Distorted leaves on Cyclamen persicum var. autumnale -
Unfortunately most of the leaves of my one and only plant of the autumn flowering variety started like the smaller one shown here. Some of them grow to a normal size but a little bit later all wilt.
Although I never came along them - I guess the cyclamen mite caused the problem.
I would be glad if there is a grower of cyclamen who could tell me whether I'm right or if there could be another reason for this phenomenon.
Gerd
Gerd
it looks to me like a damage done by aphids when leaf was young,
I also have the feeling that your plant is overwatered, this form likes to be as dry as possible. grow it as if you would grow a succulent plant, you will see the differens.
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By the way - no solution for my problem?
Gerd
[/quote]
Gerd - These leaf contortions are not uncommon here on my cyclamen growing under lights. I suspected mites but with a hand lens I see none. I use 2 cool white fluorescent bulbs only and would guess the cyclamen need the full spectrum which is not supplied from such a set up. I occassionally see this outdoors during a drought, if vine weevils have been chewing on the roots (before they start on the corm) or there has been a bit of root loss from rot.
johnw
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A self-sown seedling in a pot of Ipheon. The suspected mother was a nondescript green-leafed C. persicum collected wild.
johnw
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Oron + John,
Thank you for answering both!
There is a chance that this plant receives too much water when I placed it outside in Sept./October. I also guess that caused some root disturbance - I'll try to keep it more dry now.
I didn't detect neither aphids nor cyclamen mites - but I believe the mites are difficult to spot ( even with a lens) because they are very small - so I sprayed the plants anyway.
Gerd
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Very nice, John. 8)
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With the mild but wet weather there are still a few Cyclamen hederifolium flowers to enjoy. These two close ups are from plants from Zakinthos.Botrytis is beginning to become a problem with dead flowers needing to be carefully removed
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Dear Paul
I think this is a better place for my cyclamen collection.
First four are from this wild collection, the very first here started to flower at the 19.7. 2009 and finished middle October. The others started beginning of August.
The last two are from a friend in Austria. They are still in pots, white flowering inside pinkish. They started at the same time as the above plant. In the German forum garten-pur.de ( http://forum.garten-pur.de/index.php?board=24;action=display;threadid=7251;start=840 )are the first flowers documented. Its here usually time for C. purpurascens.
And there are a few others not yet flowering from a friend in Nuernberg.
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Axel,
Yes, A much better place. I only put the link to mine in the other topic because we had been discussing the seedset on the plant.
Your last pic of the unflowered seedlings is a nice range. Great to see that you've got one of those lovely dark leaves with the white middle, which have been commented on recently in this topic. And from those, who knows what the offspring will end up producing. One of the real joys of growing them from seed I think..... the chance of finding that elusive unusual leaf that really blows your proverbial socks off. ;D
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That is what I also found out : Noctua pronuba
Whatever his/her name is ,it eaten my Silvery Creticum !!!!Before this thread I never heard of it ,I never see it .So can you get it by mail ,or is it distributed by our forum?
The silvery creticum that I showed on 5 december has no leaves ...... and has to brave cold leafless .
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Some pictures I never got around to posting, these are from October 22.
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Pictures of leaves taken on November 20.
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Beautiful display! The flower stems look longer and more elegant than my plants. Are they in a sheltered place?
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really beautiful cyclamen :) :) :)
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A great show, Guff, I love the variations in your collection of leaves. How mature are these plants?
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Thanks everyone.
No protection if you mean a cover over them. I do have a fence and deer netting around them to keep the deer from trampling them, and the squirrels out.
They were started from seed second week in December 2005. Third summer-fall that they have flowered.
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I've only just noticed Oron's article about the Cylamen fridge :o on page 1 of this thread. Brilliant idea. A matter of life and death indeed!.... ;D