Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Crocus => Topic started by: Janis Ruksans on January 01, 2009, 10:28:02 AM
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HAPPY NEW YEAR!
I’m a little impudent starting new topic on Forum as there will be no flowers in my greenhouses in January. After a pair or more days I will cover all my beds and pots with rockwool sheets to protect against offered frost – at least first half of January the days with minus 15 C will change with less cold spells, the other half supposed proximally the same. But I will be happy to see your crocuses and will take part in discussions.
It is time when I can think about last year travels, to plan the new ones. Last year was very rich – 4(!) trips to mountains and one recreation trip with my wife. The mountain trips were extremely successful, too. Not every year you can find new taxa – last season I found two new crocuses – new subspecies of C. flavus in Turkey and new of C. speciosus in Iran.
Now I’m planning trips for new year and want ask help from you. I want to go for pictures of few Crocuses but I don’t know exactly where and when would be best time. I need them for my new book about bulbs. Many of you traveled and possibly know localities. I know that localities are not for publications on internet to save nature populations. Those who traveled with me well know that I’m never collecting commercially. All bulbs in my catalogues are nursery grown and raised. All species in which I’m interested I have in my collection so I’m not intending collecting. You can inform me on my personal e-mail address: janis.bulb@hawk.lv. I’m interested in following species:
Crocus pelistericus, scardicus, cvijicii and aerius.
Today I finished manuscript of new catalogue. It was difficult job as ever. Almost 600 items included. Not so many crocuses as I’m still recovering from serious losses in last years on outside grown plants due climate extremes and rodent attacks. But some extreme rarities of very limited numbers are included. Text part you can receive by e-mail asking to me personally. Printed copy will be available at end of month.
Last year was the first one when I felt as victim of unhonest customers who received bulbs and didn’t pay.
Hoping many interesting discussions and wishing you all the best, sincerely Yours
Janis
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And a very happy new year to you, Janis.
Some superb crocuses you mention. Both pelistericus and cvijicii are readily accessible from public roads in northern Greece. Pelistericus grows in abundance (with equally abundant C. veluchensis) on Mount Voras, the ski resort, north of Edessa, and cvijicii on Mount Vermion, another ski resort just to the south. Both were targeted by the AGS's MESE expedition in 1999. So, you can find good descriptions and locations in the AGS Bulletin for September 2000 (see John Richards' diary of the expedition). I can supply you with latitude/longitude readings if you require, but I'll do that by personal email. The MESE reports that make up this part of the bulletin also give information on earlier articles by Alan Edwards, also in the AGS bulletin. MESE collected seed of both these species: the recce trip in late June was able to collect ripe seed of cvijicii, but pelistericus was only collected by the later trip in September. If I remember rightly, both species are in flower in early May (see Alan Edwards' article).
Personally, I am already looking forward to my trip for this year. I shall be returning to the Taurus Mountains at the end of February and early March, hoping to see a range of crocus, colchicum, iris and some snowdrops, to mention but a few! I have previously visited this area in the autumn and found it captivating.
Good luck with your trip - hope you find the species you want!
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Janis I will write to you on your private email. I have made five trips to see the Greek crocus you mention and have also found Crocus aerius in NE Turkey on two occasions. C. scardicus is one I am my self planning to go and find at some stage.
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Since this is the Jan 2009 thread, I'll show a plant - Crocus baytopiorum out today (with a little help from an hour or so blast from our central heating before being returned to the greenhouse!). These corms were from Janis.
Cheers,
Alex
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no sign of mine so far
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Mine has only just put their noses up in the pots and are now thoroughly deep frozen in the green house :P
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I put this and my other pot of baytopiorum in the fridge at sub-4C in October in order to give them the proper cold Winter we're always told they like. Temp. never rose above 4C (and was usually 1-2C) but within about a month at least a cm of white shoot(s) was poking above the surface in both pots, so out of the fridge they came.
Usually, I put Fritillaria alburyana and F. minima in the fridge for similar reasons, which works OK, but this year I haven't bothered. Happily, no sign of either yet, except roots out of the bottom, so they don't seem to bolt and flower in December like I feared...
Alex
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Alex
You have captured the blue of baytopiorum beautifully.
Your avatar shows an excellent Iris - do you also collect these?
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Hi,
Thanks for the compliment - if thst's true, the key is definitely not trying too hard, this was taken with a compact camera in poor light! I do also grow a lot of Junos and some reticulatas, the one in the picture is iris stenophylla ssp alisonii last year.
Cheers,
Alex
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Hi Alex, lovely little Crocus. I get shouted at for having the fridge full of seed packets so I dread to think what would happen if I started putting pots of Crocuses in there as well!
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Although I'm suffering with the 'sniffles' today and had promised myself a day in-doors Alex's picture tempted me outside to check on my Crocus baytopiorum. Having run out of space in the greenhouse I have a lot of pots of various bulbs in a little plastic 'greenhouse' of the kind most garden centres stock these days (very similar to the one Diane is using for her seed pots) and my C baytopiorum was one of these. Glad I did because one of the corms was in flower, this from Anne Wright-thank you Anne- and here it is, a pretty little thing.
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Mine still only in bud!
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I have never seen a 'striped' baytopiorum before - very nice.
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I have never seen a 'striped' baytopiorum before - very nice.
My C. baytopiorum - of course last years pictures. They still are underground here as outside even in day temperature didn't raised above minus 8 C.
Janis
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Here's my Crocus baytopiorum - from the same stable as David's (Thank you Anne !) - it doesn't show on the picture, but it's much more elongated - flowering on a stem of approx. 12 cm... but I like it very much anyway ;)
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Today here was minus 12 C outside and bright sun shining (what will be in night?) I decided to check some pictures from last year trips and to share my impressions with you. I will start with Crocus abantensis – this marvellous beauty self-sowing here in garden and even becoming some kind of weed on my nursery beds. “Fortunally” hard frost a pair of years ago cleaned my old field from this weed (and cleaned it from open field beds where it was planted, too; alived only greenhouse grown plants), but left millions of Crocus heuffelianus self-sawn seedlings. Only hope to find between them in some Spring some nice hybrid.
Nature travels depends from weather extremely. On picture 01 you can see the pass near Abant Boly at my coming to Turkey. Two weeks later I returned hoping for more pictures and found everything covered in deep snow (02). Only 1(!) bloom of C. abantensis had nose out of snow (03). Fortunately I maid a lot of pictures at my first stop although then blooming only started. C. abantensis is very variable in colour – lighter and darker blue but rarely can you find some white (04) or even striped (05) flower. It grows side by side with bright yellow C. ancyrensis (06) and sometimes they hybridise making beautiful hybrid C. x paulinae (07).
In same district is growing Crocus biflorus pulchricolor, too. Only by flower it is not easy to separate both, not surprisingly that C. abantensis was overlooked so long. Picture 08 made very late in evening some 50 km from Abant Bolu on S faced pine forest side surprisingly clean from snow when everything around was covered up to half meter thick snow
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Janis
If only my weeds of Convolvulus and ground elder could be replaced by Crocus abantensis.
I have a suggestion if you get overrun by this dreadful 'weed' again - 'Pile them high and sell them cheap'. Your friends who grow Crocus would still regard you as a friend - unlike some of mine to whom I gave an 'attractive' white allium, that they still cannot remove from their gardens. ;) :) ;)
Arthur
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Here are two pics of what I believe is a hybrid between Crocus cancellatus ssp. cancellatus and Crocus kotschyanus ssp. kotschyanus. I photographed this plant in the mts. above Findikpinari in the Bolkar Daglari, south central Turkey. Can anyone confirm my hybrid theory?
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Janis
If only my weeds of Convolvulus and ground elder could be replaced by Crocus abantensis.
I have a suggestion if you get overrun by this dreadful 'weed' again - 'Pile them high and sell them cheap'. Your friends who grow Crocus would still regard you as a friend - unlike some of mine to whom I gave an 'attractive' white allium, that they still cannot remove from their gardens. ;) :) ;)
Arthur
Pity, but abantensis were killed by frost. Well know this nice Allium - isn't zebdanense?
Janis
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Kees that is a lovely
snowdrop Crocus.
Crocus ancyrensis was available in some garden centres here last autumn. I didnt buy any just in case they were wrong.
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Janis, happy new year and all the best for your marvellous Crocus wich can come in our homes one day !!! abantensis is stunny and I love xpaulinae
Mark, ancyrensis that we find generally is a sterile clone. More difficult to have the true wild and fertile species. I have some seedlings gived me by a friend. I have to wait twoyears to verify it
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Kees - that is a wonderful and unusual crocus. (By 'someone' perhaps you mean Janis who is the most well travelled and experienced of us all!) I presume from your proposed parents that both the named taxa grow in the locality? Did you excavate to examine the corm tunic? From the flower shape, colour and markings I see C cancellatus. The white anthers occur only in ssp pamphylicus which Mathew lists for Antalya and W Icel provinces. How does this relate to where you were? (Sorry I have not been to Turkey so the geography is not easy for me to place.) Some taxa have occasional aberrant forms which might also explain this plant. I would not have expected these two to hybridise as they are not in the same series in the Mathew Classification however the recent genetic analyisis might alter this view.
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Janis, looking forward to your millions of Crocus heuffelianus self-sawn seedlings.
I hope you post some pictures and maybe some closeups shots. I like heuffelianus forms most of all.
Also thanks for the info in other thread.
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Here are two pics of what I believe is a hybrid between Crocus cancellatus ssp. cancellatus and Crocus kotschyanus ssp. kotschyanus. I photographed this plant in the mts. above Findikpinari in the Bolkar Daglari, south central Turkey. Can anyone confirm my hybrid theory?
Kees,
I don't think that cancellatus can be crossed/crosses with kotschyanus. It looks very close to some of my cancellatus forms.
Janis
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Janis, looking forward to your millions of Crocus heuffelianus self-sawn seedlings.
I hope you post some pictures and maybe some closeups shots. I like heuffelianus forms most of all.
Also thanks for the info in other thread.
Guff
In attachment few of Crocus heuffelianus pictures from wild and garden. Carpathian Wonder - original plant in wild, found on my first trip to Eastern Carpathians (Ukraine). Cultivar you can see on earlier entry (top 5 crocuses).
Globular Wonder possibly is lost few years ago, still hope to find it old field.
Crocus heuffelianus bed is the largest in my nursery now, another from Crocus versicolor were cleaned by frost (oh, how many beautiful selections of versicolor were lost in this winter).
Few pictures (wild) are scanned from very old slides made on E-German film Orwo - best available during Russian occupation, so sorry for quality.
Would be very pleased to know from whom you got those lost heuffelianus - please write me personally.
Janis
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Here are two pics of what I believe is a hybrid between Crocus cancellatus ssp. cancellatus and Crocus kotschyanus ssp. kotschyanus. I photographed this plant in the mts. above Findikpinari in the Bolkar Daglari, south central Turkey. Can anyone confirm my hybrid theory?
Sorry for wrong identification earlier - it seem to be Crocus pallasii subsp. pallasii. Note undivided style. Style of Crocus cancellatus is branched. A little confusing is color of anthers which in tipical pallasii is yellow, but it can to varie although I never saw white anthered pallasii. By the place where it is collected it could be subsp. pallasii. All my pallasii aquisitions has more or less striped flowers but some has white throat.
Possibility for cros between pallasii and kotschyanus seem unreal although kotschyanus is growing in this area (according Flora of Turkey).
Janis
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Stunning pictures of the C. heuffelianus Janis. :o
I never saw 'Dark wonder' before - it's another really amazing plant !!
Thanks for showing these !!
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"I presume from your proposed parents that both the named taxa grow in the locality? Did you excavate to examine the corm tunic?"
Hello Tony, Janis and others,
I don't think cancellatus pamphylicus is supposed to grow this far east and the style doesn't seems to fit cancellatus. Findikpinar is in E Icel province. I'm attaching a picture of the corm, excavated for identification purposes, it seems to be typical cancellatus.
We found two or three of these forms growing in a cancellatus cancellatus population at relatively high altitude. Kotschyanus kotschyanus wasn't far away though. We certainly did not find pallasii pallasii populations in this area, although the style in the hybrid plants would probably fit pallasii very well. Cancellatus cancellatus seems to be a plant of open mountainous terrain, while kotschyanus was found more often in open coniferous woodland and in deciduous oak scrub.
We found cancellatus ssp. pamphylicus later on in W Icel province.
I'm also attaching a picture of kotschyanus ssp. kotschyanus from Finkdikpinar, style and anthers seem to be quite similar to the 'hybrids'.
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This is cancellatus ssp. pamphylicus, photographed in W Icel province. We also found a white form...
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I don't think cancellatus pamphylicus is supposed to grow this far east and the style doesn't seems to fit cancellatus. Findikpinar is in E Icel province. I'm attaching a picture of the corm, excavated for identification purposes, it seems to be typical cancellatus.
We found two or three of these forms growing in a cancellatus cancellatus population at relatively high altitude. Kotschyanus kotschyanus wasn't far away though. We certainly did not find pallasii pallasii populations in this area, although the style in the hybrid plants would probably fit pallasii very well. Cancellatus cancellatus seems to be a plant of open mountainous terrain, while kotschyanus was found more often in open coniferous woodland and in deciduous oak scrub.
We found cancellatus ssp. pamphylicus later on in W Icel province.
I'm also attaching a picture of kotschyanus ssp. kotschyanus from Finkdikpinar, style and anthers seem to be quite similar to the 'hybrids'.
Seeing the corm (typical cancellatus) I would more tend to new species than to hybrid. If hybrid between pallasii and kotschyanus would be possible (under greeat question marks) as they are placed not very far in new phylogenetic tree, then cancellatus is situated very far. Cancellatus is closer to biflorus than to kotschyanus. (see Petersen @ al.. Phylogeny of Crocus, Taxon 57: 2 - once more great thanks to Ian Young for information of article). Cancellatus is closer to biflorus than to kotschyanus. Greetings!!!
Janis
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"Seeing the corm (typical cancellatus) I would more tend to new species than to hybrid. If hybrid between pallasii and kotschyanus would be possible (under greeat question marks) as they are placed not very far in new phylogenetic tree, then cancellatus is situated very far. Cancellatus is closer to biflorus than to kotschyanus. (see Petersen @ al.. Phylogeny of Crocus, Taxon 57: 2 - once more great thanks to Ian Young for information of article). Cancellatus is closer to biflorus than to kotschyanus. Greetings!!!
Janis"
Hello Janis,
New species would be nice. We just found two or three of these plants in a larger cancellatus ssp. cancellatus population so I tend to think it is more likely to be a hybrid. We did not see any pallasii ssp. pallasii, it may be around at Findikpinar, but perhaps a bit later.
A bit further west we found pallasii ssp. dispathaceus, some of them had very dark flowers. Further east, near the Syrian border, we found what we believe must be pallasii ssp. turcicus.
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A bit further west we found pallasii ssp. dispathaceus, some of them had very dark flowers. Further east, near the Syrian border, we found what we believe must be pallasii ssp. turcicus.
Hello Kees,
What a beautiful dark form of palasii dispathaceus :o
I have doubts about the pallasii turcicus, it is too similar to pallasii pallasii from my region [Israel, and S. Syria], I think pallasii turcicus has narrower petals that are half way between the two other ssp. mentioned.
attached pallasii pallasii from Israel.
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Kees, your unknowen crocus is 'Crocus boissieri' ;D
Which I have never seen before.
I wish a happy new year to all friends.
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Janis, your heuffelianus are amazing. I had thought Dark Wonder and Darkeyes were the same plant? Had thought there was a typo or mix up in names.
On the old forum Dark Wonder
http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/5012/23568.html
Is Tatra Shades and Uklin Strain yours also? Picture taken last spring.
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Kees, your unknowen crocus is 'Crocus boissieri' ;D
Which I have never seen before.
I wish a happy new year to all friends.
Ibrahim...i take off my hat... :-X
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What a dynamic crocus start into 2009. :o 8)
C. baytoporium, C.abantensis, C.ancyrensis, C. x paulinae, C.heuffelianus variations, C. pallassi dispathaceus dark form,
and finally "C. bossieri" re-discovered! ;D ;D ;D
Guys - you made my highlight of the day!
Thank you!
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Janis, your heuffelianus are amazing. I had thought Dark Wonder and Darkeyes were the same plant? Had thought there was a typo or mix up in names.
On the old forum Dark Wonder
http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/5012/23568.html
Is Tatra Shades and Uklin Strain yours also? Picture taken last spring.
Crocus heuffelianus Tatra Shades and Uklin strain were introduced by Michael Hoog [(later Hoog & Dix Export (Holland), now Antoine Hoog (France)]. Tatra Shades originates from Krakow Botanical garden (Polland) under name C. scepusinensis, Uklin strain is my, but plants on picture seem to be from Lizja Pass, see my entry on this topic a little earlier.
Dark Wonder and Dark Eyes are different. I'm attaching picture of Dark Eyes here. Dark Wonder is of Carpathian Wonder type but with light purple (instead of white) basic color. Dark Eyes is clone of C. heuffelianus with very prominent dark blotch on tepal tips and slightly rounder flower shape (see attached picture). As Crocus heuffelianus species I'm offering unselected seedlings of typical color.
I'm attaching another picture of accidental seedling from Carpathian Wonder (pity, it isn't mine) found by my Estonian friend in his garden - still single corm, hope it will increase and soon I will have it, too.
Janis
P.S. Tonight we had minus 21 C outside, next one night is promissed even colder but then weather will change to warmer.
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Janis,
Your heuffelianus are stunning. I have recently received Carpathian Wonder from a friend here in Australia on the forum, so await seeing a flower of it in the future in person rather than just on computer monitor. All the various ones you have shown are just amazing. Beautiful!!
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What about this for Crocus michelsonii?
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Ibrahim, thanks for the information, I suppose you mean the 'hybrid' from Findikpinar, or did you mean the pallasii found near Syria? Do you have any information about Crocus boissieri, such as a description or its distribution? (I can't find boissieri in the Flora of Turkey). By the way, we also found Colchicum boissieri at Findikpinar.
Oron, it does look VERY similar to your picture of pallasii ssp. pallasii from Israel. The pallasii was photographed just west of Kilis. I thought it was pallasii ssp. turcicus because I did not think pallasii ssp. pallasii occured in the area around Kilis. Also, Dave Millward mentioned pallasii ssp. turcicus from the Kilis area and west of Gaziantep in November 2007 on this forum (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=943.msg23553) and his pictures also look very similar to my pallasii picture, so I'm a bit confused now. ??? ::)
Kees Jan
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Janis,
you write, the second Cr.heuffelianus is a hybrid.
With what for a form or sp.?
I have the same or very similar form from this Crocus,
growing since many years by me.
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Do you have any information about Crocus boissieri, such as a description or its distribution? (I can't find boissieri in the Flora of Turkey). By the way, we also found Colchicum boissieri at Findikpinar.
Kees Jan
Kees Jan, I do not have the issue in question, but I hope that some Forumist will have it and be able to share it with you.... here is a reference to Crocus boissieri which I believe would be helpful...
Kerndorff, H. and Pasche, E. 1998. Miscellaneous Note 1: On the type locality of Crocus boissieri (Iridaceae). The New Plantsman, Vol. 5, Part 1: 11-14.
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Maggi thank you very much, Just I was thinking what to say.
Kees, I mean your unusual C. cancellatus the others are correct and very nice form of C. pallasii ssp. dispathaceus
For C. boissieri I was not sure but I have seen this name in severel links. And distribution is Mersin where you have been. but I also don’t have further information.
http://biow.tubitak.gov.tr/present/taxonForm1.jsp?taxon=4727
http://vanherbaryum.yyu.edu.tr/flora/famgenustur/crocus.htm
http://www.cedgm.gov.tr/icd_raporlari/mersinicd2003.pdf
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Janis,
you write, the second Cr.heuffelianus is a hybrid.
With what for a form or sp.?
I have the same or very similar form from this Crocus,
growing since many years by me.
It is selfsawn seedling suddenly appearing in grass. Yours is very similar.
Janis
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Kees, your unknowen crocus is 'Crocus boissieri' ;D
Which I have never seen before.
I wish a happy new year to all friends.
Ibrahim, I understood it as joke. Boissieri must be spring bloomer and most important - filaments are much longer than anthers - see cited The Plantsman where is herbarium sample foto. On Kees plant it is just opposite.
Janis
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Yes, Janis that was a joke to learn something which I want to know about from same region.
Thank you very much indeed. But still I can't reach to any sample of this species. If you have any It would be very nice to mail me or post here! That was only one in my folders without any sample.
Best Wishes...
Ibrahim
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Thanks Janis.
Is your collected Crocus ``Michael's Purple``also from Uklin Pass?
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Janis, thanks for the background info, it's nice knowing the history.
Wow Dirk, you have a lot of Michael's Purple. How long to clump up like that? I also have one corm that I received in Oct. When I was checking corms it looked ok. Hopefully it shows in a couple more months.
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What about this for Crocus michelsonii?
No comment :P
..... but I'd watch it for signs of ill health despite the possibility that it is just a one-off floral abberration.
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What about this for Crocus michelsonii?
Good grief!!!
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Last year it was normal.
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Yes, Janis that was a joke to learn something which I want to know about from same region.
Thank you very much indeed. But still I can't reach to any sample of this species. If you have any It would be very nice to mail me or post here! That was only one in my folders without any sample.
Best Wishes...
Ibrahim
Copies of article about C. boissieri from The Plantsman
Janis
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Thanks Janis.
Is your collected Crocus ``Michael's Purple``also from Uklin Pass?
That is from Uklin
Janis
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Thanks Janis!
Guff, i have this form 8 years. He is a very good grower, but set not seed by me.
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Dirk,
That pot of 'Michael's Purple' is amazing. Great colour to it.
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Copies of article about C. boissieri from The Plantsman
Janis
Janis - thanks for this which elaborates on the remarks by Baytop & Mathew in The Bulbous Plants of Turkey. They state that they made several trips to the supposed type locality but found nothing. They add that it is unlikely that any crocus would be flowering at the end of June (the supposed date of collection) in this locality which is only 100 metres above sea level & that the information on the herbarium sheet is probably incorrect.
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Thanks Janis.
Is your collected Crocus ``Michael's Purple``also from Uklin Pass?
I just checked old papers of Hoog's - there is noted that Michael's Purple comes from me, but they didn't note exact locality. There was 3 places where I collected heuffelianus in Easthern Carpathians - Uklin pass (homeland of most, incl. Carp.Wonder), Lizja pass (from where heuff. alba origins - there were 50/50 white and deep purple without intermediates) and from Velikije Mosti village on opposite direction from Lvov (70 km North, lowland population) I suppose Michael's Purple must be from Uklin, as I lowland population checked only for pure botanical interest - some Russian botanist gave to it varietal status based on length of filaments/anthers, but I couldn't confirm it - there was full range of variation.
Janis
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Some sunshine today so the first of the Chrysanthus crocus opened.
Crocus sunspot 1, 2, 3, & no 4 with the sun shining through the petals
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Well here's a real ray of sunshine right in the middle of the deepest of Winter Michael ! (not sure this is good English, but everyone will understand I guess... ;D)
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Lovely Michael. I'm hoping the price of Sunspot comes down this year.
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Janis thank you very much.
The history of C. boissieri was very interesting for me. I couldn't see anything for flowering time!. I think you are sure for spring flowering species! The area seems very clear.
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Nice plant Michael. It will be interesting to see whether the black stigma carries through in seedlings.
Sunny here too 8), for almost the first time since around St. Stephen's Day - and I'm away from the greenhouse! :'(
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Janis I just checked from net that cave. Size of cave, the church and masque, they are all right. It is very cloase to sea and only 150m altitute! As Gerry says for a spring crocus is not very interesting, for autumns might be!
But for flowering time you may be right usualy the spring specieses are flower with long leaves. Second thing is mostly the specieses from low altıtute have more broad leaves!
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Sunny here today also and very warm sitting here with my back to the window
Janis asked a few days ago about the size of my Crocus l. dark form/late form. The lagest flower is 5.5cm across.
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Another one just opened today.
Crocus imperati ?
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Michael
What a stunning colour :)
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I always show Crocus imperati when I can in lectures. It always gets loud gasps.
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Here's my C. michelsonii again fully open by bring it inside. The closer shot shows some male bits present on the petaloid stamens.
My first Crocus laevigatus fontenayi shown on December 31st was very elongated but the flowers that were in bud are perfect.
Among my Crocus chrysanthus 'Uschak Orange' is one with an orange style. It also lacks the black bases to the anthers. Is this a rogue bulb? The colour is the same dark orange. My camera doesnt like the colour.
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Lovely crocuses from everyone. High summer here is NOT a crocus time so all of these are a delight at this hot and dry time of year. (Well, it's supposed to be hot and dry. chilly and damp today but never enough rain to be more than a nuisance.) Anyway, the crocuses help to keep my spirits up and I watch my primulas slowly withering.
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Lesley do you collect water? A local grower has dug their own reservoir/pond for watering plants
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We do indeed collect water, from our house and shed roofs and this is everything we have. We do have a boggy bit where a spring would be if it were cleaned out (it's a long way distant from the garden) but no-one is allowed to do this now or to sink a bore because over all, and for years now, the ground water level is dropping so we may not deplete it further. Sometimes we collect grey water and use that but it smells so horrible after a couple of days that it has to be used daily and it's a hassle.
We can buy water though and do so, once or twice a year depending on the season. We'd have enough rain for the house if I didn't insist on watering plants and nursery. So guess who pays for what we buy?
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Nice plant Michael. It will be interesting to see whether the black stigma carries through in seedlings.
Sunny here too 8), for almost the first time since around St. Stephen's Day - and I'm away from the greenhouse! :'(
By mutual information from Bob (Pottertons Nursery) only small percentage of SUNSPOT seedlings has black stigmas.
Last spring I found two plants with blackish stigmas in Turkey and a pair with black connective on anthers. They all were in place where C. chrysanthus grow side by side with biflorus isauricus and hybridise in nature. I intend to try to cross Sunspot with them and those between in all possible combinations hoping to receive plant with black anthers and stigmas. Will see.
Janis
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Among my Crocus chrysanthus 'Uschak Orange' is one with an orange style. It also lacks the black bases to the anthers. Is this a rogue bulb? The colour is the same dark orange. My camera doesn't like the colour.
Mark,
Crocus chrysanthus Uschak Orange is one of samples of this species with chromosome number 2n=20. It was introduced by Van Tubergen when ran by Hoog's family. It was for the first time offered for sale by van Tubergen in 1973 at price 20 times higher than average price of C. chrysanthus cultivars. I got them some years later from Pruhonice Institut of Ornamental Horticulture (Czech Republic). Those plants were with orange stigma and bloomed as the first crocus in my collection of those days. Later, when Van Tubergen was sold by Hoog's family, I got few additional corms from Michael Hoog but those although of same color and flowering time was with yellow stigma. Both are fertile and abundantly set seeds with plants of both stigma colors. I don't know are they hybridising with other chrysanthus genotypes (2n=8,10,12,14,16,18). There are samples with 2n=20 in Yugoslavia and Greece, too. At that time I hadn't other wild collected chrysanthus forms. Of course I would prefair to keep as Uschak Orange plants with orange colored stigmas.
Janis
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Just one today
Crocus chrysanthus Uschak Orange ex J.R.
Temp here -2c
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Another unusual natural hybrid between chrysanthus and biflorus isauricus from same locality (outside and inside view)
Janis
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That is a lovely Crocus
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Mark, when you showed your photo of Ushak Orange, you said
Among my Crocus chrysanthus 'Uschak Orange' is one with an orange style. It also lacks the black bases to the anthers. Is this a rogue bulb? The colour is the same dark orange. My camera doesn't like the colour.
Michael has now showed his photo of that bulb.... can you tell me what the difference is, in real life between what your eyes see of your flower, and what the camera sees of both flowers?
That sounds rather muddled, sorry! What I am getting at is this.....to me Michael's pic looks to have an orange style.... I do not myself "see" the flowers of either pic as being "orange" ......Help!!!
Please!
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Maggi in real life Uschak Orange is a deep orange with a red style. The camera shows it as a yellow/orange
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I've just brought Uschak Orange in to get some photos.
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Well ... they say a camera doesnt lie. The camera is correct in a way. Uschak Orange according to the RHS Colour Chart is in the Yellow-Orange Group. To my eye it looks darker with a slight hint of red.
The finer details of Uschak Orange
outside of petals - sorry I had to dash out to advise local library board on swift boxes
inside of petals Yellow-Orange Group 17A
style Yellow-Orange Group 28A
The paler style is Yellow-Orange Group 17B
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Janis,
Your chrysanthus 054 is a real beauty!!!
love the contrasts between style, anthers and petals.
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Janis, 069 the last one is süper. :o
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Superb pictures from all. Enjoyed very much.
Nothing to show yet from my garden - all deep frozen at -18°C last night.
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The thaw is under way and we are up to a balmy 2.5c. The crocus have continued to grow slowly whilst frozen in the plunge and today I have prised two out and brought them into the kitchen to open.
Crocus fleischeri
Crocus reticulatus ssp hittiticus
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What wonderful photos. Such delicate flowers. It has brightened my morning. Thank you. Janine
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I bought Crocus fleischeri in 2007 and it was wrong
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Janine thank you.
Mark I posted another form in crocus december 2008 post number 99 and still have a couple more to flower.They vary a little but only in the amount of striping on the outside. They are my own seed.
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That fleischeri is really neat. Very delicate and distinctive.
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immaculate flowers and pix Tony ! Wonderful ! :D
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Very nice Tony.
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Nothing exciting with this photo except defrosted ice crystals
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Nice pictures of your diamond encrusted Crocus Uschak Orange , Mark 8)
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Mark,
The artist in you is waking up !! 8)
Great pic.
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First, forced day, open for my chrysanthus 'Sunspot' and amazed to see it's pollinated already.
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For third day I'm in bed with fever and high temperature. So I'm rarely opening Forum pages. Today my step-daughter brought to me from my office some pictures. Although still not communicable I'm sending you few pictures from wild Crocuses pictured in Turkey last spring.
The first is another natural hybrid between chrysanthus and biflorus isauricus. Real chameleon - note how it changes flower color.
Another is very unusually colored chrysanthus pictured near Ulu-dag Milli Parki gate, alt. 1535m where it is growing together with biflorus puchricolor. In 100-200 m distance there is growing Crocus herbertii, too (just near Milli Parki gate). I have true albinos of chrysanthus but this one is especial (you can look for it on first opening between pine forest on left side of road driving down from Milli Parki)
And the last one is albino form of Crocus flavus subsp. dissectus pictured on way back in very early foggy morning, It isn't pot plant to bring in and force opening. For me it was the first albino of C. flavus seen.
Hope recover soon
Janis
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As ever Janis you have seen some fantastic Crocus in the wild. Wrap up warm and get well soon!
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Janis
I think the Crocus biflorus / chrysanthus hybrids near to the entrance to the Milli Park are exceptional. There were hundreds in the V made by the entrance and exit road behind the payment hut. Here are two I have raised. Hopefully the next generation will flower this year
Crocus biflorus hybrid
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Tont the dark one is very nice
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Both lovely.
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Janis
I think the Crocus biflorus / chrysanthus hybrids near to the entrance to the Milli Park are exceptional. There were hundreds in the V made by the entrance and exit road behind the payment hut. Here are two I have raised. Hopefully the next generation will flower this year
Crocus biflorus hybrid
Yours, Tony, are hybrids between chrysanthus and biflorus pulchricolor. The white one seem to be pure biflorus - it is very variable, there (alt. 1535m - just near gate)
Mine (picture one on previous entry) is between biflorus isauricus and chrysanthus (pictured near Akseki, alt. 1475m)
White flavus is pictured near road from Eskisehir to Saricakaya; alt. 1270 m
On attached pictures pure puchricolor (very typical) near Milli Parki gate and possibly hybrid, but I'm something doubtful.
Janis
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Janis
yes they are hybrids betwen Crocus chrysanthus and C.biflorus pulchricolor. I would not agree that the white one is pure C.biflorus pulchricolor although of course we will never know unless I get further plants from its seed. A couple of pictures of C. biflorus pulchricolor growing with C. gargaricus and numerous scilla and then on its own
I have seen both the C.biflorus issauricus and C.chrysanthus near Akseki but have not found any hybrids. I think the C.chrysanthus is a nice form
Crocus gargaricus and Crocus biflorus pulchricolor Ulu Dag
Crocus biflorus pulchricolor Ulu Dag
Crocus bilforus issauricus Akseki
Crocus chrysanthus Gundogmus
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Mark, how do you know your 'Sunspot' is already fertilized? Or do you mean it is pollinated (but not necessarily fertilized)?
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First, forced day, open for my chrysanthus 'Sunspot' and amazed to see it's fertilised alreday.
Mark, I remember you posting a picture of Sunspot last year with numerous flowers from just one bulb - what is it doing this year ??
Truly astonishing hybrids Janis and Tony - absolutely wonderful - don't let me keep you from posting more ... ;D
Get better real soon Janis ! ;)
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Lesley, stoopid mistake by me.
Luc, I had, from memory, 27 flowers from 5 corms. Many of my spring flowerers are small this year due to the drought last spring. I watered the pots but they yellowed very quickly. They have just started so time will tell
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Like this, Luc
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Still as impressive as it looked when I first saw it last year Mark ! ;D
I'm very curious for this year's performance !
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11 flowers, Luc.
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Not bad after your poor growing season !!
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Thank you Janis and Tony for pics and explications. Janis, get better quickly I hope
Mark, Sunspot is always so delightful
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Thomas, has your Sunspot flowered yet?
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Where did you get Sunspot from Mark? I wanted to take C baytopiorum to our local meeting, so brought it into the house in tight bud. Within 10 mins it was like the first photo, and within 20 mins like the second! The yellow crocus is one whose label I've lost. It may have come from Janis Ruksans, or from Thomas. Any ideas - I think it might be a korolkowii?
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Anne - the yellow one is indeed C korolkowii. Thomas or Janis will be able to give the form a name for you.
I am still green with envy of such a vigorous and floriferous C baytopiorum ..... you grow it very well!
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Anne,
I am pretty sure that C. Sunspot came from Rob Potterton but he appears not to be listing it this year.
Alan
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Oh yes he is!
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Oh yes he is!
Yes, indeedly doodly... Rob had some when he came to Aberdeen to speak in Autumn ..... money well spent in my opinion.... a bulb that brightens your day and looks different ..... we have several buds showing..... I just love these multi-flowering crocus - so much nicer than those snowdrops that just put a up a single flower ::) ;D
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Note to myself: "must get Sunspot".
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send him an email today!
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Just received Rob's 2009 Bulb Catalogue this morning. Sunspot is in at £6 per corm, was £10, I think, in 2008. The catalogue is well worth a look, especially for you folks in the Eurozone (you know who you are, the ones with the strong currency :P ) should be particularly good value given the current exchange rates. Also worth a look is Rob's alpine catalogue.
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Anthony: what a smart new avatar! Nice one.
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Well I did advise you to hold onto those spare euro from your last trip David ;D
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Yes you did Ashley I remember it very well, but I spent them on plants from German nurseries :-[
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Yes you did Ashley I remember it very well, but I spent them on plants from German nurseries :-[
Never mind David ;) This will pass too. How often in the past have I blanched at UK plant/bulb/seed prices due to an unfavourable exchange rate. But of course there'll be many further gyrations; you'll just have to choose your moment to order abroad - I think it's called commodities dealing ;D
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Ashley, if my ticket was the only entry in the lottery I wouldn't win ;D
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Believe me - you're not the only one with THAT particular distinction David ;D
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A long time ago there used to be a Falkirk Musical (oxymoron now) Festival. A friend was the only entrant in the 'cello class. He came second! :-[
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With the low temperature, I put on the bulb frames several covers and I put off them with the sunshine. Some "babies" are born !!!
Crocus antalyensis 1
Crocus antalyensis 2
Crocus sieberi pale form
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suite.....
Crocus michelsonii
Crocus biflorus nubigena 1
Crocus biflorus nubigena 2
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Nice babies Dominique ;)
Love the antalyensis - mine are not showing yet !
Green with envy for biflorus nubigena - I have it on my wants list but have not seen it offered lately :-\
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Bravo Dom!
very lovely babies ;)
C.antalyensis is very beautiful - your photo is much better then the ones I've seen in catalogues/online shops.
Is it hardy enough for the open garden?
I'm a bit hesitant.
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Luc and Armin
Thank you ; I have not yet try it outdoors.
Dom
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Thomas, has your Sunspot flowered yet?
No David - I wish it would. But I've had temperatures around 0°C since the beginning of November
and -10 - -18°C in the last two weeks - everything in the garden is covered with snow and sleeping.
This year is the coldest winter since I've started gardening :-[
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Where did you get Sunspot from Mark? I wanted to take C baytopiorum to our local meeting, so brought it into the house in tight bud. Within 10 mins it was like the first photo, and within 20 mins like the second! The yellow crocus is one whose label I've lost. It may have come from Janis Ruksans, or from Thomas. Any ideas - I think it might be a korolkowii?
Anne the yellow crocus looks like Crocus korolkowii "Mountains Glory" you got from me 2 years ago.
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The yellow crocus is one whose label I've lost. It may have come from Janis Ruksans, or from Thomas. Any ideas - I think it might be a korolkowii?
Anne the yellow crocus looks like Crocus korolkowii "Mountains Glory" you got from me 2 years ago.
Very like my 'Mountains Glory'.
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You are very happy, you can go to your fields and to check living flowers. For me in those dark and muddy days the single possibility is to go through pictures and memories of last year trips.
So back to Crocuses. Very variable in nature is Crocus biflorus isauricus. Unfortunately it is one of those subspecies for identifying of which you must to know from where comes your corms. The blackish or grayish connectives on anthers in some populations only rarely are present. Some populations are very variable, some very uniform. One of such very uniform populations is on Aldurbe yaila some 12 km NW from Akseki. It is famous place where Green Tours are guided for Galanthus elwesii. But there are many other bulbs, too. Crocus biflorus isauricus there are presented by 2 general forms - with striped and with stippled back of petals (quite rarely). I saw only one plant which seemed to be possible hybrid with C. chrysanthus, but no one of chrysanthus. Only few km N from Aldurbe yaila is another half-abandoned road from Akseki to nowwhere (through city rubbish deposit to pass, further it was crossed by snow avalanche and not more passable). At pass the same isauricus is more variable and brighter but again only very few has blackish connective. There I didn't find any chrysanthus, too.
01,02 - both pictures shows quite rare plants in those populations where black color is only slightly visible in anthers
03 - both - striped and stippled - forms can grow side by side
04 - naturally potted crocuses
05 - of course, seems that crocuses on previous picture feels more happy than those snowdrops, but they are safe from any "galanthophile".
06,07 - brighter plants of C. isauricus
08 - quite rare shape of flower there and note the color of petal back.
Janis
Only 4 pict now, others on next entry. Oh, my internet...
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Another "quartet" of pictures
Janis
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Very variable in nature is Crocus biflorus isauricus. Unfortunately it is one of those subspecies for identifying of which you must to know from where comes your corms.
It is very difficult when the corms come from cultivated plants or from seed of the same :-\
I am really enjoying your pictures and the comments you give .... as I am also enjoying reading 'Buried Treasures' which was a Christmas present. At least some of the C biflorus 'aff' isauricus that I grow look quite similar to the ones that you have shown us. They may flower soon if the warmer weather stays here (I hope it does not! - too early yet.) I will post some pics when they do.
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Tony it must be something in the name,I also got Buried Treasures for Christmas and it is splendid.A really good read ,lots of cultivation information and wonderful pictures. makes me want to make lots more trips.
I have the odd Crocus biflorus ssp issauricus from Akseki and hopefully will be able to show them (possibly fallen over) in a few days. I must say that it has always mystified me that it might be necessary to know where a plant has come from to be able to confirm its identification. I have had this discussion with an orchid expert about Dactylorhiza where I was told it was necessary to know its origin before a positive identification could be made.
Here is one from last year
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Janis very nice pics from wild. I realy enjoy by waiting the crocus season here. According to your pictures can I say that C. biflorus subsp. isauricus has always yellow anthers?
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Could someone put a name to this Crocus? It's label is missing.
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Could someone put a name to this Crocus? It's label is missing.
Seem to be species, not cv and most likely biflorus, but which one?
Janis
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Like this, Luc
I hope you had your sunglasses on when you took this picture Mark. :D
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Thanks, Janis
Lesley, I pollinated Sunspot today. If any seeds are set would you like some?
Luc, the flowers are coming up fast now. Sunspot was one of the first to die down last year due to my reglect. I'm very happy to see more flowers coming up.
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The sunshine today opened a few flowers.
Crocus biflorus subsp. isauricus
Crocus flavus subsp.dissectus
Crocus fleischeri.
Crocus korolkowii Kiss of Spring.
Crocus korolkowii Kiss of Spring.
Crocus korolkowii Lucky Number
Crocus siberi subsp. aticus
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Michael very nice, I am glad the sun is shining on you,here it is cold wet and dark so I brought a few inside to try and open them.
The first is Crocus graveolens which is quite untidy. The flower reflexes right back and smells pretty awful.
Second and third are two clones of Crocus fleischeri.
Fourth and fifth are Crocus chrysanthus the first showing my problem with the light. I did think of tying it up for the picture.
Six and seven are Crocus cyprius.
The last is an interesting Crocus biflorus ssp. When I got this in 1992 it keyed out as ssp pulchricolor but it is 500 miles from where that grows and it was referred to B. Mathew who said it probably was that ssp. They have now been reclassified so it will be a new one but I have no idea what. The habitat is now destroyed and is an eucalyptus plantation.
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Lovely combination of colours on C. cyprius.
For the experts I have another lost label Crocus. Unfortunately it looks like many other orange Crocus but it has, to my eye, distinctive shaped petals and anthers
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Might be Crocus flavus Mark. The anther divergence and petal shape suggest flavus, not sure about the style and being at work I cannot check the books.
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Thanks Tony. I know I have C. flavus in the collection.
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Lesley, I pollinated Sunspot today. If any seeds are set would you like some?
Oh yes please Mark. I know they may not come true but there would be some similarity I expect. Marcus Harvey in Tasmania has a few corms I think but I expect it will be a while before he has enough to send it to NZ.
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C. cyprius is indeed a beauty, the overlaid colours are lovely. C. fleischeri is a favourite of mine for the scent, but I haven't seen one with the dark stripe before.
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Tony what well grown plants which are nice and compact and you complaining that they are being drawn. Mine are always drawn I think I will have to move house to find a place with more sunlight. Particularly like the cyprius thanks
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Ian thanks for the comments,as you will see the C. chrysanthus is falling over and the fleischeri will be by tomorrow. I did not show you the ones I could not photgraph. I think gardeners always complain.February is usually my best month when its cold and bright and they are growing slowly.
Anne I have not noticed the scent and as to the stripes they are quite variable in the amount but are usually very fine and never really obscurs the white
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Tony my chrysanthus sp always fall over I think these need to be kept particulalry lean and mean with very high light levels. Perhaps the recently started thread on supplementay lighting http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2938.msg64222;topicseen#new (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2938.msg64222;topicseen#new)might offer a solution to the British climate :-\
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Corcus seem to manage reasonably well with us, even in low light levels... possibly they just look reasonable because their leaves are sturdy and hold them up! Narcissus are a different matter.... they do tend to flop quite a lot. Light levels in our bulb houses are awful, position by neighbouring trees, dirty glass ( :-[) climate .... I could go on...... If we were to take a pot of crocus out of the plunge I expect some might well flop a bit..... we don't take them out, though, because we know that because of the smaller pots we are using these days, the chances are that their roots will be out into the plunge and will take offence at being torn up as we raise out the pot. That's why Ian's pix are so often taken in situ!
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Tony what well grown plants which are nice and compact and you complaining that they are being drawn. Mine are always drawn I think I will have to move house to find a place with more sunlight.
Ian,
House prices in Australia should be falling because of the GFC ;D
cheers
fermi
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My Crocus cyprius - of course - growable only in greenhouse, here.
Janis
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Wonderful stuff everyone !! :o Hard to choose which I like best - so many beauties !!
And so early by our standards - most of my crocus grow in the garden where the soil is now slowly thawing up and there's barely any sign of life !
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Tony my chrysanthus sp always fall over I think these need to be kept particulalry lean and mean with very high light levels. Perhaps the recently started thread on supplementay lighting http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2938.msg64222;topicseen#new (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2938.msg64222;topicseen#new)might offer a solution to the British climate :-\
Ian not with my finances ! I shall just bend over and look at them sideways.
Janis I grow all mine inside although I think some of the wetter growing ones would be fine outside but they would just get lost in the garden and I try and keep them documented.
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Tony what well grown plants which are nice and compact and you complaining that they are being drawn. Mine are always drawn I think I will have to move house to find a place with more sunlight.
Ian,
House prices in Australia should be falling because of the GFC ;D
cheers
fermi
Fermi I think the light might be a touch better in Oz. And my aches and pains might benefit from being a little warmer but Pam wouldn't leave her (oh and mine) babies so the crocuses will have just have to flop :(
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Reading the December 96 AGS bulletin I realise I have been spelling chrysanthus 'Ushak Orange' wrong for years I've been spelling it 'Uschak'. Doh!
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Reading the December 96 AGS bulletin I realise I have been spelling chrysanthus 'Ushak Orange' wrong for years I've been spelling it 'Uschak'. Doh!
It comes up with the Uschak spelling in the RHS listings and in Janis' book ..... ::) ;D
That's good enough for me!
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Is Alan Edwards wrong when he wrote the description or could it be a spelling mistake that has become the norm?
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Well, given that it is Uschak in the RHS database, the Plantfinder and Janis' book, I rather think it is a typo in the Bulletin. Let's face it, we are all good at getting names confused and making typos... also, for Brits, there is the added confusion of "foreign" names... it's just not a national strength, is it? :-[ ???
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Presumably it's a transliteration of Uşak, the province in western Turkey.
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5 mentions including the village name.
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I learn from the net that the name of the Turkish city & province is written Usak, with a cedilla - a little hook - under the 's'. It is apparently pronounced Ushak. The accepted name for the crocus seems to be 'Uschak Orange' which I would guess is an anglicised version.
Edit: Ashley - how did you get the cedilla?
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Thanks Gerry, that's a better way of putting it: anglicisation rather than transliteration.
Edit: Ashley - how did you get the cedilla?
I used insert symbol in Word, then cut & paste to the message Gerry.
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It's brilliant sitting here looking through all the bulletins looking for main articles and seeing how far back some of my plants were first described.
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Thanks Gerry, that's a better way of putting it: anglicisation rather than transliteration.
Ashley - this could be the start of a long discussion as to whether it is transliteration, transcription or anglicisation. I'm not sure, but I think we both know what we were getting at.
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Reading the December 96 AGS bulletin I realise I have been spelling chrysanthus 'Ushak Orange' wrong for years I've been spelling it 'Uschak'. Doh!
It is registered at KAVB in Holland as Crocus 'Uschak Orange' and was introduced from Turkey by Michael Hoog.
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Depending on which map you use it can be spelt both ways but that is perhaps because the maps are prepared outside Turkey. I think having been there correct spelling of the province and town is as Usak with the cedilla
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Couple here from the greenhouse today but struggling to open properly. Crocus fleischeri, and from Thomas with many thanks Crocus imperati de Jager
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Presumably it's a transliteration of Uşak, the province in western Turkey.
Yes, it is so, but not province - in original description it is regarded as village. Only now Uşak is large district center with University. Tomorrow I will check it in my office in the first catalogue of Van Tubergen where it was offered for the first time. Suppose it must be accepted as the most correct spelling.
Janis
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A couple in bloom today.
Crocus versicolour
Crocus sieberi sublimis
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Spring comes early in the emerald isle, although the turn to mild weather here is bringing things on quickly. Two pretty crocuses Michael although the C sieberi is not ssp sieberi. Probably ssp atticus although difficult in a picture to tell this from ssp sublimis.
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Thanks Tony, It was grown from seed so I was not sure which one it was. I have had another look at your web page gallery and I am satisfied that you are correct,it is sublimes, will change the label accordingly.
Cheers.
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Lovely colours in those Michael.
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Very nice David and Michael; I particularly like that wonderful starry fleischeri.
Mine will probably go over without opening unless conditions here improve :(
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Presumably it's a transliteration of Uşak, the province in western Turkey.
Yes, it is so, but not province - in original description it is regarded as village. Only now Uşak is large district center with University. Tomorrow I will check it in my office in the first catalogue of Van Tubergen where it was offered for the first time. Suppose it must be accepted as the most correct spelling.
Janis
Just checked. In 1975 when this name appeared for the first time it was spelt as USCHAK
Janis
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Crocus versicolor is extremely variable. In XIX century there were 18 named varieties of it. I made a lot of selections but most were lost in horrible winter a pair of years ago. Some, I hope, alive. In any case I will saw again it for further selection. Here some pictures for you can see variability, but I don't know - have I still them or not. (In two portions)
Janis
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Few more of versicolor
Janis
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The last pair - oh, my internet!
Janis
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And all beautiful. I look forward to seeing which of these I got from you Jānis ;)
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:o I'm coming on the next plane! ;D
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Crocus up in the garden now
Bowles White did I read it has been renamed?
vernus ex Greece
dalmaticus
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Rob says so in his latest catalogue. It's now sieberi 'Albus'
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Crocus sieberi 'Bowles' White' (so it will remain for me - I think 'Albus' is invalid as a cultivar name)
Rather to my surprise this has remained compact so far even though light levels are still low. The photo is not marvellous - my camera on auto seems to have problems with white.
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Rob says so in his latest catalogue. It's now sieberi 'Albus'
Isn't that a different plant David?
http://kavb.back2p.soft-orange.com/kavb/kavbSG.nsf/0/c27f42fd4e17c0a0c1256c4000359b2e?OpenDocument&TableRow=1.1.0#1.1. (http://kavb.back2p.soft-orange.com/kavb/kavbSG.nsf/0/c27f42fd4e17c0a0c1256c4000359b2e?OpenDocument&TableRow=1.1.0#1.1.)
It is of course possible that Bowles White does not exist anymore ? :-\
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There is a Crocus sieberi Albus registered too:
http://kavb.back2p.soft-orange.com/kavb/kavbSG.nsf/0/ed8270b667311b4ac1256c4000349381?OpenDocument&TableRow=1.1.3#1.1. (http://kavb.back2p.soft-orange.com/kavb/kavbSG.nsf/0/ed8270b667311b4ac1256c4000349381?OpenDocument&TableRow=1.1.3#1.1.)
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Luit, I couldn't open either of the Links.
Quote from Rob Potterton's latest catalogue below under the heading "sieberi 'Albus'
"............ formerly known and affectionately remembered as 'Bowles White' before those men in suits dabbled"
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Crocus sieberi 'Bowles' White' (so it will remain for me - I think 'albus' is invalid as a cultivar name)
How puzzling. On the RHS Database 'Bowles' White' is described as a synonym for C. sieberi 'Albus'. I thought Latin or Latinised names were invalid for cultivars. Obviously more research is required.
Edit : I wonder if Bowles originally named it 'Albus' & we are dealing with priority here?
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Gerry your photo looks good to me
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Both links open for me, Luit, thank you.
I do not believe there can be much doubt that the beautiful plant shown by Gerry is the one commonly known as 'Bowles white' 8)
There is certainly some confusion as to whether or not this plant and C. sieberi 'Albus' are the same.
'Bowles White' gained an AM from the RHS in 1978 when shown by Rev. Blakeway Philips.
Luit's link shows that C. sieberi 'Albus' was registered by E.A.Bowles himself. The plant got an A.M.-R.H.S. 1937 and A.G.M.-R.H.S. 1992.
The 1978 award to 'Bowles White' is documented in the AGS Bulletin, but not the 1937 one to C. sieberi 'Albus'.
As an aside, I do think that there is consderable doubt as to whether Crocus chrysanthus E.A.Bowles is still in existence ...... did we not have some correspondence on that cultivar, Luit, in connection with the Bowles Society, who were trying to track it down?
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As an aside, I do think that there is consderable doubt as to whether Crocus chrysanthus E.A.Bowles is still in existence ...... did we not have some correspondence on that cultivar, Luit, in connection with the Bowles Society, who were trying to track it down?
Maggi, my senior brains do vaguely remember there was some discussion, but don't know if I was involved.
I saw the description of Bowles White as:Throat orange, flowers large, globular, pure white.
Is this the case with Gerry's plant?
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Luit's link shows that C. sieberi 'Albus' was registered by E.A.Bowles himself. The plant got an A.M.-R.H.S. 1937 and A.G.M.-R.H.S. 1992.
This seems to imply that the original cultivar name was 'Albus' & that the recent name change is based on a priority rule. Does anyone have any of EAB's books to check how he refers to it there? In The Vanishing Garden by Chris Brickell & Fay Sharman they claim that EAB named the plant "Bowles' White. On the face of it this seems a bit unlikely - too egocentric.
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I saw the description of Bowles White as:Throat orange, flowers large, globular, pure white.
Is this the case with Gerry's plant?
Yes Luit, more-or-less. Though the flowers this year are not (so far) as large as they were last.
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I thought Latin or Latinised names were invalid for cultivars. Obviously more research is required. Edit : I wonder if Bowles originally named it 'Albus' & we are dealing with priority here?
I don't know about the priority in this instance. In general the rule is that cultivar names should not be in Latin if they were named after 1959. Older ones still hold.
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Thanks Diane. This seems to clarify the matter.
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Bowles wrote:
" In 1923 I found two pure white youngsters among my seedlings, after thirty years of hopeful expectation. the better ofthese has increased freely and it the best white and orange spring Crocus I know. It is now known as 'Bowles's White', has received an AM and is "A" in the plate 7 illustrating Mr Burtt's article in the Journal R.H.S. for January 1949.
The wonderfully fine contrast between its pure white perianth with the orange throat and scarlet stigmata is only equalled among Crocuses by the autumnal C. niveus"
I have no access to the RHS 1949 Journal.
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Here is a link to a picture in the Bulb Log:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2007/070207/log.html (http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2007/070207/log.html)
and a link to a page out of the book of Janis Ruksans: Page 356
http://books.google.nl/books?id=imfVg9lqnKIC&pg=RA2-PA356&lpg=RA2-PA356&dq=Crocus+sieberi+Bowles+White&source=bl&ots=A_Oucb2SpZ&sig=N1y_EAhJiQr4TQ266s0ULiWbp3k&hl=nl&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result (http://books.google.nl/books?id=imfVg9lqnKIC&pg=RA2-PA356&lpg=RA2-PA356&dq=Crocus+sieberi+Bowles+White&source=bl&ots=A_Oucb2SpZ&sig=N1y_EAhJiQr4TQ266s0ULiWbp3k&hl=nl&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result)
Maybe it is of help too??
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Can't add anything useful to this discussion so won't try. 'BW' will always remain 'BW' to me, one of the best early spring crocuses, vigorous, clean colour and increases well.
I do, however, wish to congratulate Fermi on his new home. In spite of comments that Australian house prices are falling - they are here too - I'll bet he had to pay a pretty penny for THAT one.
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I saw the description of Bowles White as:Throat orange, flowers large, globular, pure white.
Is this the case with Gerry's plant?
Yes Luit, more-or-less. Though the flowers this year are not (so far) as large as they were last.
C. sieberi 'Bowles's White' is pictured (opposite p. 92) and named just as 'Bowles's White' in EAB Handbook.
EAB wrote: "In 1923 I found two pure white youngsters among my seedlings, after thirty years of hopeful expectation. The better of these has increased freely and is the best white and orange spring Crocus I know. It is now known as 'Bowles's White', has received an A.M. and is 'A' in the plate 7 illustrating Mr. Burtt's article in the Journal RHS for January, 1949."
By Handbook it seems that EAB didn't gave this name, but it was named by someone else.
It is registered by KAVB as 'Bowles' White' (note difference in spelling), got A.M. RHS in 1978. (published in Register-1991, but not included in edition 1975)
I not remember since which year it is not allowed more to use latinised forms in cultivar names, can't to find for a moment where is my copy of Codex. To elder cultivars still latinised forms are conserved.
Of course - BWh is hybrid as it never set seeds. There are pure white sieberi in nature, too, but they all are smaller in size.
Janis
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I not remember since which year it is not allowed more to use latinised forms in cultivar names, can't to find for a moment where is my copy of Codex. To elder cultivars still latinised forms are conserved.
It's 1959 Janis (see my post above)
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Of course - BWh is hybrid as it never set seeds.
Janis - do we know this? Could it not be a sterile triploid?
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Of course - BWh is hybrid as it never set seeds.
Janis - do we know this? Could it not be a sterile triploid?
It is another possibility, but I'm following analogy with Hubert Edelsten (hybrid between subsp. sieberi and subsp. atticus - sterile, too) - by size and shape almost same but color.
Janis
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Luit, I couldn't open either of the Links.
Luit, just to let you know both Links opened perfectly for me this evening. Don't know what I did wrong last night. ???
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Crocus sieberi `Bowles' White' (as purchased from Potterton and Martin if I remember rightly in 1993), has once set seed for me. The seedlings were mainly pale lavenders and yellows, not unlike some of the cvijicii x veluchensis seedlings.
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Luit, I couldn't open either of the Links.
Luit, just to let you know both Links opened perfectly for me this evening. Don't know what I did wrong last night. ???
David, my other half means, it might depend on the number of drinks ... ;D ;D 8)
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Crocus sieberi `Bowles' White' (as purchased from Potterton and Martin if I remember rightly in 1993), has once set seed for me. The seedlings were mainly pale lavenders and yellows, not unlike some of the cvijicii x veluchensis seedlings.
Lesley - this is very interesting. Were your plants selfed or cross-pollinated by some other species. The yellow offspring are curious. It seems that some plants are described as sterile when they are only self-sterile. Crocus sativus is a case in point, for this can be pollinated by other members of the saffron group. A few years ago I had seed on C. sativus, probably pollinated by nearby C. cartwrightianus, but I was struck down (literally) before I could do anything with the seed so I have no idea what they would have produced.
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Like Lesley I have had seed from BW once - I await first flowers with interest.
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Crocus sieberi `Bowles' White' (as purchased from Potterton and Martin if I remember rightly in 1993), has once set seed for me. The seedlings were mainly pale lavenders and yellows, not unlike some of the cvijicii x veluchensis seedlings.
I just got following mail from my Australian friend Marcus Harvey, who travelled in Greece:
"There are many albinos of Crocus sieberi ssp sublimis in the wild its not such a big deal. On Mt Chelmos alone one could see 10% of the population in this form. I think there are the same number of clones in cult. My stock sets seed and definitely not a hybrid, it throws maybe 60% true. Maybe too much is being read into Mr Bowles' selection, which is probably lost long ago."
My own plants certainly never set seeds although I tried to pollinate them - of course, it was not cros-pollination as I used only other plant of same clone. Will try this spring if there will be potential pollen parent of sieberi flowering in same time.
Janis
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Bowles White grows well in the open garden for me, but I was surprised to read
that most of you don't get any seed from it - mine set seed reliable every year!
My stock was received some years ago from Dix-Export, so possibly from Dutch fields.
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I wonder whether there is more than one clone in cultivation under the name 'Bowles' White' (or 'Albus')? My own plants are almost certainly Dutch imports & I suspect that this is probably true of most of the plants grown in the UK. 'Bowles' White' is available very cheaply in the trade, yet it was described many years ago (1983) by Paul Christian as "slow to increase". If this is true, it might suggest that the trade plants are seed-raised & therefore not entitled to the clonal name. In other words, Marcus Harvey may well be correct.
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Janis
As Lesley and Tony, I obtained seeds of BW last year and sow them in september. Wait wait wait !!!
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Thanks for that Janis. Marcus sent me the same note and I was going to post it here.
Gerry, my BW - the ones which had the seed - are in a trough which is alongside the trough which has both CC. cvijicii and veluchensis so it's possible there was cross-pollinating from either or both of those since they are in the same series Reticulati (Mathew). Going from Mathew's notes, veluchensis is more likely but the yellow colouring of some suggests cvijicii as veluchensis is always lavender or purple coloured, never varying into yellow. They're down now but I'll take a picture in the early spring to post here.
Looking back at my (admittedly sparse) notes, the BW seed was the same year I had seed on cvijicii, which turned out to be hybrids with veluchensis. The following summer I moved the cvijicii into a raised bed and I've not had seed on either species since, so again, cvijicii seems likely as a pollinator for the BW. I've not had seed on cvijicii in its new position nor on veluchensis ever. I'm now wondering if some of the very pale yellow seedlings on the cvijicii were from pollen off BW.
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I should have mentioned, though I suppose it was obvious, that all my seed on BW and cvijicii has been inadvertant, i.e. I didn't do any pollinating, it was only from insects, wind or whatever.
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Lesley - recent work on crocus phylogeny based on DNA analysis suggests that C. sieberi is rather more closely related to C. cvijicii than it is to C. veluchensis so your guess that C.cvijicii might be the pollinator may well be correct.
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Lesley - recent work on crocus phylogeny based on DNA analysis suggests that C. sieberi is rather more closely related to C. cvijicii than it is to C. veluchensis so your guess that C.cvijicii might be the pollinator may well be correct.
Mathew in 'The Crocus' says that C. veluchensis is most closely related to C. cvijicii and can only be distinguished on flower colour and then says that it is not possible to identify some crocuses growing on Mt Parnassus as being either C.veluchensis or C. sieberi or hybrids between them. Clearly they can all interbreed when brought together.
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Some in flower today brought into the warmth so they have opened rather wide.
In the case of Crocus nevadensis this is propped up having elongated
A couple of Crocus biflorus ssp crewii with two views of cr275
A Crocus biflorus issauricus
A Crocus chrysanthus
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A few more
Crocus gargaricus from Goktepe not the Ulu dag form
Crocus oliveri
Crocus danfordiae
Crocus fleischeri yet another one
Crocus biflorus ssp pulchricolor white
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Great shots Tony ! :o
I'm particularly fond of the black anthered C. biflorus crewii !
Delightful !
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Lesley - recent work on crocus phylogeny based on DNA analysis suggests that C. sieberi is rather more closely related to C. cvijicii than it is to C. veluchensis so your guess that C.cvijicii might be the pollinator may well be correct.
Mathew in 'The Crocus' says that C. veluchensis is most closely related to C. cvijicii and can only be distinguished on flower colour and then says that it is not possible to identify some crocuses growing on Mt Parnassus as being either C.veluchensis or C. sieberi or hybrids between them. Clearly they can all interbreed when brought together.
Tony - the recent work on Crocus phylogeny (the reference is given by IY in post 128 of Dec. Crocus) broadly confirms BM's classification but there are discrepancies. While CC veluchensis, cvijicii & sieberi remain closely related their relationship as shown on the cladogram is as I stated above. Admittedly, this work is preliminary & suggestive only. As the authors concede, further work is required before we can draw firm conclusions
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Gerry thanks for that, I can only comment as a complete amateur from the botanical perspective ,but one who has observed them and their behaviour in the wild and in cultivation.
I suppose what I was trying to say in my quote was that because as you say there are still discepancies, broadly speaking nothing much has changed since B.M's original observations about the species in 1982
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Lovely stuff Tony, I was going to tell you which I liked best but I just can't decide on one, they are lovely examples.
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I would love to see a photo of C. biflorus crewii up close. It's a good looking Crocus
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Lovely shots as usual Tony. Particularly nice to see the crewii as I have just acquired the (and sown) seeds from JJA so one day maybe :-\. How long did they take for you?
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Thank you for the comments.
Ian my best effort with any crocus is 4 years and my worst apart from death before flowering is about 8 but I do not claim to be a great grower,I just muddle along.
Mark that is a challenge I will attempt tomorrow if it is still standing.
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Some Crocus currently in flower:
Crocus crewei - have not been able to photograph open to show black anthers, but have peeped inside.
Crocus crewei
Crocus biflorus v. taurii Wonderful plants Dirk
Crocus abantensis - will be happy when others open to confirm this incredible colour form
Unknown - can anyone identify this please
Unknown
Crocus korolkowii - thanks Dirk
Crocus cvjicii - I hope
Crocus cvjicii - I hope
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Arthur very nice to see. Your ssp crewii is just like my ssp issauricus on the outside. Do you know where it is from?
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Arthur very nice to see. Your ssp crewii is just like my ssp issauricus on the outside. Do you know where it is from?
Not certain - think I was given mixed bag of corms by a friend. First time to flower
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Arthur your Crocus cvi....... looks OK to me
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To me too Arthur though mine, being outside never have that elongated tube. They sit almost on the ground (surface of raised bed).
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Some in flower today brought into the warmth so they have opened rather wide.
In the case of Crocus nevadensis this is propped up having elongated
Hi Tony,
I'm very happy to see this one as I have some seedlings labelled such and I wondered what they should look like when they eventually flower! Do you have a pic of the open flower?
When re-potting some Crocus speciosus spp. xantholaimos on the weekend I noticed that one had a flower shoot developing!
cheers
fermi
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Tony W. Very nice crocus,
I want to ask about C. biflorus ssp crewei. Do they have always black anthers? Because I have seen photos from Honaz which has quite yellew anthers!. And some crocus quite white with wide leaves like olivieri from top of Honaz! Maybe you have experience!
art, your dark abantensis seems the best to my ayes.
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Arthur, if your unknown crocus has reticulated corm tunics and is from Greece
I would guess it's a sieberi ssp.
Great photos everyone, they are helping me to survive the flowerless time in my own garden :-[
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Thomas move with your collection to the UK ;D
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Thomas move with your collection to the UK ;D
Alluring thought, Mark. Will ask my family what they think :-X
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Great Crocus Arthur ! 8)
Can't wait to see more of your C. abantensis !
Don't worry Thomas - your time will come - my garden looks just as colourless at the moment ! ;)
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Thomas move with your collection to the UK ;D
Much as I would enjoy having the Hubis as neighbours - I would stay where you are ;)
Your crocus will flower in the warm spring sunshine, with short tubes, just like in nature. Move here and you'll have to prop them up or use flash for photos :P
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Much as I would enjoy having the Hubis as neighbours - I would stay where you are ;)
Your crocus will flower in the warm spring sunshine, with short tubes, just like in nature. Move here and you'll have to prop them up or use flash for photos :P
OK, you've convinced me ;D
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Exterior view of Crocus biflorus ssp crewii as requested by Mark.
Ibrahim the dark anthers are a characteristic if ssp crewii and so I cannot comment on the yellow anthered ones from Honaz. I see from the distribution in 'The Crocus' that C. oliveri grows on Honaz. I cannot see from my records that I have it from there.
Fermi the C nevadensis has sent up its flower ,which has elongated and died without opening. I see from my photographs it did the same last year. It seems to have another bud so we will have to wait and see if that opens
I have all so put on another couple of Crocus cyprius which opened today.Sorry one is bit fuzzy but the light has gone so I cannot take it again
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Very nice C. cyprius Tony !!
I just received some seed of it from the exchange... remind me to compare them with yours in 4 or 5 years ... ;D
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Sorry much too busy to keep upto date with these proceedings, so the following comments don't refer to current theme but ......
Earlier in these discussions Mark offered the possibility of supplying seed for Crocus chrysanthus 'Sunspot', please be aware that the seedlings are not always true, often the black style reverts to type.
Reference Crocus sieberi 'Bowles White', the RHS Plantfinder 2008 - 2009 edition states 'Bowles White' see sieberi 'Albus'. I much prefer BW myself.
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A few ones today:
C. corsicus
C. olivieri olivieri - Chios
C. vitellinus
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Oron I see that You grow them in clay pots but wonder if You can grow them in the open or need a green house to protect from the heat?
I believe that the summer is not that different between Your place and Portugal even if the winter here is this year from zero and ten degrees rather than normal 5 to 15 C.
Are the olivieri sensitive or generally farely easy? Just compared with "gardencenter yellows" like "yellow gigant"?
I have a only one yellow crocus out now and it seems to flower even in slight rain and a cloudy day. It was even open late in the evening but I do not know if it was open at night. It is just a gardencenter bulb but it helped to give some colour on a gray day. it is a yellow gigant but is under a different tree than this one.
Since the kids almost have the same name I am curious about the C. olivieri.
All the best
Joakim
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Joakim,
I grow all my bulbs in pots outside, not in a greenhouse because that would be too hot in summer.
If you are looking for the yellow flowering species, C. vitellinus, C. graveolens, and C. Olivieri ssp. olivieri are doing fine here, so there is no reason they wont do well with you.
Take in consideration that olivieri has a tiny flower, much smaller than the Dutch cultivated ones...
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Nice pix as usual Oron !
I like the colour of C. olivieri - such a warm orange !! :D
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Crocus dalmaticus is about to flower in the garden. Sadly there arent as many corms as there used to be.
And the pot of possible Crocus flavus. I showed the first flower last week.
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Thanks for the information Oron.
I knew it was smaller but will see how much smaller when I get it. By the way are You growing in pots to enjoy them better or is it not possible to grow them in the soil directly?
It is mostly the name that s funny with that as my kids are Oliverira (as in olive tree in Portuguese). That name and all other animal and plant name in Portugal comes from the jews changing name and became "new Christians" in Portugal when the spanish inquisistion hit Portugal.
I will have my eyes open for the C. olivieri.
All the best and lovely to see some colour. I have more crocus coming but most just common cultivars we will see of what coulor when they bloom.
Joakim
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Hurrah! My Crocus baytopiorum are going to flower this year. I was given them in 2005, they flowered in2006 then increased in number but did not flower in 06 and 07. Crocus korolkowii is coming in to flower with me now and Sunspot bought from Rob Potterton when he talked to the Aberdeen group in October is ready to open if we get some sun in the next two days.
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Thanks Luc.
Thanks for the information Oron.
I knew it was smaller but will see how much smaller when I get it. By the way are You growing in pots to enjoy them better or is it not possible to grow them in the soil directly?
Joakim
Joakim,
I grow all my bulbs in pots for a few reasons, first we have a terrible pest by the name of Blind Mole Rat [Spalax],
that every now and then maneges to enter my garden, this underground Rat can eat an entire collection over one night.
Second, it is easier to take care of small bulbous plants when they are in pots, it is easier to observe them, to move them from place to place in order to get more or less sun. end some times to enjoy them indoors too.
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Thanks for that information Oron.
That looks like an eating machine :(
Some people put underground cage around their bulbs to be able to have them in the garden.
All the best
Joakim
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I'm pleased that Oron's pet hampster does not live in our garden. Ugh!
We had a nice sunny morning and I was moving crocus pots into the sunniest positions for a photo shoot. Just as they started to open up the sun went behind clouds and now we have heavy sleet. And I have now got to go out! Oh, well. ::)
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There was some chat in the Galanthus section about backgrounds and enhancing photos.
I've just taken some photos of sieberi 'Bowles White' and experimented a little.
1. unaltered
2. auto contrast
3. auto levels
a few in the pot.
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There was some chat in the Galanthus section about backgrounds and enhancing photos.
Mark - can you give a reference for the posts please?
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http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2931.120 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2931.120)
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Thanks Mark. Since I can't get decent photos of pure white Narcissus cantabricus I'll try playing around. By the way, your crocus pic with the altered levels looks the most lifelike.
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Gerry, very pale grey card should do the job. You can buy 18% grey card from a craft shop. I just Googled grey card and found many expensive sources c£18 a sheet. :-X
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At last the sun stayed out long enough to open up the crocus. Here is
Crocus sierberi nivalis - from seed in 2002 and this is its second flowering
Crocus korolkowii - with a darker throat than the one on Crocus Pages
Crocus imperati De Jagers - I prefer to see this one when it is not fully open and I can see the feathering on the outside of the petals. Does anyone know who de Jagers was?
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Does anyone know who de Jagers was?
P. de Jager & Sons
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So, Luit, does this mean that De Jager (sorry no 's') is a man made hybrid? Nothing wrong with that, I am just interested.
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The posting of pictures of Crocus imperati 'de Jager' gives me a chance to get some long accumulated questions about Crocus imperati off my chest.
Is Crocus imperati 'de Jager' the same plant described by Bowles as var. monophyllus? I’ve always assumed so, but I’ve never seen it in writing so-to-speak.
And is Crocus imperati fragrant? Synge described the fragrance of Crocus imperati (he treated C. imperati and C. suaveolens as distinct species) as acrid. On the other hand, its name suggests that Crocus suaveolens should be sweetly fragrant.
Crocus imperati 'de Jager' is sweetly fragrant, another reason to ascribe it to (the now subspecies) suaveolens.
But is the fragrance of typical Crocus imperati (Crocus imperati subsp. imperati) acrid? Is this purported difference in fragrance useful in distinguishing the subspecies imperati and suaveolens?
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So, Luit, does this mean that De Jager (sorry no 's') is a man made hybrid? Nothing wrong with that, I am just interested.
Yes David, I think so.
Here is an overview of other Crocus they did register:
Genus Cultivar Registrant Date Registration
Crocus 'Blue Princess' P. de Jager & Sons 31-12-1973
Crocus 'Dandy' P. de Jager 31-12-1960
Crocus 'De Jager' P. de Jager & Sons
Crocus 'Frost Bound' P. de Jager & Sons 31-12-1973
Crocus 'Magic' P. de Jager & Sons 31-12-1973
Crocus 'Mystic' P. de Jager 31-12-1973
Crocus 'Plaisir' P. de Jager 31-12-1973
Crocus 'Romance' P. de Jager & Sons 31-12-1973
Crocus 'Ruby Gown' P. de Jager & Sons 31-12-1973
I think most of them are no longer in culture.
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I may be wrong but I think C. imperati 'de Jager' is a selection rather than a hybrid. Are the other names on your list Luit, hybs of C. chrysanthus?
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I may be wrong but I think C. imperati 'de Jager' is a selection rather than a hybrid.
Isn't it an infraspecific hybrid (i.e. Crocus i. imperati x C. imperati suaveolens)? In other words, if not clonally identical to Bowles' monophyllus, perhaps of the same purported origin.
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I may be wrong but I think C. imperati 'de Jager' is a selection rather than a hybrid. Are the other names on your list Luit, hybs of C. chrysanthus?
Lesley,
Yes!
Yes!
Isn't it an infraspecific hybrid (i.e. Crocus i. imperati x C. imperati suaveolens)? In other words, if not clonally identical to Bowles' monophyllus, perhaps of the same purported origin.
Jim,
Registrated as:
Species imperati ssp imperati
with subspecies etc.
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Crocus baytopiorum ( From janis ) is flowering and increasing,
(http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/84/35/03/eos5dm12.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=394&u=11843503)
as well as Crocus versicolor, from south of France :
(http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/84/35/03/eos5dm13.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=395&u=11843503)
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Its been a lovely warm sunny day which brought out the crocus
Crocus biflorus ssp pulchricolor/ chrsanthus natural hybrid
Crocus biflorus ssp alexandri
Crocus biflorus ssp pulchricolor white inside of flower
Crocus chrysanthus
Crocus cyprius
Crocus oliveri
Crocus sieberi, this one was growing in an area which had been devasted by fire over several square miles the year before.
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Wow, Fred, that's a stunning photo of Crocus baytopiorum!
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Its been a lovely warm sunny day which brought out the crocus
You lucky blighter - rain ALL day here. Serves me right for a recent post when I told the world we get more sun here than you do ;)
I do have some crocus to show if the sun and I can arrange to be here at the same time this week.
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Its been a lovely warm sunny day which brought out the crocus
You lucky blighter - rain ALL day here. Serves me right for a recent post when I told the world we get more sun here than you do ;)
I do have some crocus to show if the sun and I can arrange to be here at the same time this week.
And I understand the same tomorrow,do not be jealous that's probably it for months and I do have to row to the greenhouse at the bottom of the garden after the rain of the last few days
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Great plants and pictures everyone. Here the sun appeared only briefly this afternoon.
Crocus ancyrensis
Crocus dalmaticus 'Petrovac' Still refusing to open
Crocus imperati ssp. imperati De Jager This has given a succession of flowers over about 6 weeks.
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Some lovely pictures over the last few days folks. Here's one of mine from the greenhouse today- Crocus chrysanthus 'Herald'. This one from Thomas, thanks very much Thomas.
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One or two Forumists have, in the past, bemoaned the fact that they could do with a Botanical Key for Crocus species (usually those of us without a copy of The Crocus). I have acquired a copy of one of the Keys put together by Brian Mathewand anyone who would be interested in a copy of it is invited to contact me at my private Email address for further details.
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Great stuff everyone - seems that Winter will soon be over now as Crocus' are appearing "en masse" ;D ;D !
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Some crocus today. I may have posted some of these before with just one flower,but I got excited today when the sun came and they opened all their flowers.
Crocus chrysanthus Dorothy
Crocus imperatii De Jager
Crocus korolkowii Kiss of Spring.
Crocus sieberi bowles White.
Crocus sieberi subsp. atticus
Crocus sieberi subsp.sublimis f. tricolor. this one did not open,maybe tomorrow.
Crocus bed waking up after the winter.
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Who said recently his Crocus dont elongate? 8)
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Bless 'em! they're still lovely, though, aren't they? We've got some Crocus imperati that must be 10 to 12 cms high ...they're still upright meantime!
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Yet another C. korolkowii 'Kiss of Spring' (who devised this ridiculous name?).
Despite the dull weather this is remaining compact whereas C. flavus is elongating by the minute.
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That's a lovely one Gerry (it may be named by Janis R), likewise the glorious baytopiorum. I'm really missing crocuses here in mid summer. Way too dry for the autumn species to start. So it's good to get a "fix" here. THanks to everyone therefore.
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Dear "croconuts"
Don't worry for my long silence. Just returned from hospital where passed more than week after surgical treatment. Still a little week but after returning on line will join you all again!
With best wishes, Yours
Janis
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Janis I hope You get well soon and that they fixed You well in the hospital.
All the best for a speedy recovery
Joakim
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Dear Janis, our very best wishes to you! May you soon be feeling strong and ready for the Spring :-*
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Janis
Hope you make a full and speedy recovery.
We missed you
Arthur
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Janis - hope you soon feel much better. I am reading Buried Treasures at bedtime and look forward to hearing about your next expedition on this forum!
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Yet another C. korolkowii 'Kiss of Spring' (who devised this ridiculous name?).
Despite the dull weather this is remaining compact whereas C. flavus is elongating by the minute.
Name is given by me. I just had a girlfriend with me in garden and she liked it so much that greated me with hot kiss - so variety got its name.
Janis
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Janis best wishes for a speedy recovery. I just hope I get the same result if I name a crocus.
Here are two in flower in the fog today
Crocus veluchensis
Crocus sieberi
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Yet another C. korolkowii 'Kiss of Spring' (who devised this ridiculous name?).
Despite the dull weather this is remaining compact whereas C. flavus is elongating by the minute.
Name is given by me. I just had a girlfriend with me in garden and she liked it so much that greated me with hot kiss - so variety got its name.
Janis
Janis - many thanks for explaining the origin of the name. It's a very attractive crocus - I imagine the girlfriend was also.
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Name is given by me. I just had a girlfriend with me in garden and she liked it so much that greated me with hot kiss - so variety got its name.
Janis
Hmmm. Must remember to have some hot girls around when I start naming my snowdrop seedlings. Hopefully Galanthus 'Winter Snog' will be added to the list of cultivars very soon, closely followed by a string of increasingly X-rated snowdrop variety names.
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Sunshine today again.
Crocus chrysanthus Aubade
Crocus chrysanthus Advance
Crocus corsicus
Crocus tommasinianus pictus
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Michael, these are photos to show just how beautiful a crocus can be 8) Who could resist them?
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Just one Crocus today. I was too busy concentrating on white flowers ::)
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Janis - many thanks for explaining the origin of the name. It's a very attractive crocus - I imagine the girlfriend was also.
[/quote]
Oh, yes. The garden visit was followed by a pair of coctails inside... and as result Crocus variety 'Spring Cocktail', too. So very nice memories.
Janis
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Janis, I see you are feeling better already ;D
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Just one Crocus today. I was too busy concentrating on white flowers
Mark, how could you ? :o
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Very easily :o I need photos for Mondays lecture
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Very easily :o I need photos for Mondays lecture
A reasonable explanation ,Mark, but I'm glad you spent a little time on the crocus ::)
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Welcome back Janis, good to get the hospital over before the warmer weather starts, and you'll want to be among the spring flowers.
Funny how knowing the ORIGIN of a plant's name makes that plant so much more interesting, one can almost feel affectionate towards it. I have 3 named vars of C. korolkowii but will look for this one because always I'll see in my mind, Janis and the lady, enjoying the garden - and the kiss. :-*
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Martin - Galanthus 'Winter Snog' will be a hybrid of G. snogerupii? :D (A species which looks pretty much like all the others - don't they all? - but I grow because I love its name.) I can hear you saying to the hot girl in question " Come on, snoger up then." I see hot pants somewhere in this, but perhaps not, in the UK winter. :)
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Yesterday the sun shone ... but not for long :-\
A few crocus opened, here is the cream of the crop.
Crocus biflorus ssp isauricus - a gift from a friend
Crocus cyprius - I've had a few corms of this form for 18 years but increase is negligible. I now have a couple of other forms which might open in time for cross pollination and so hopefully some seed later.
Galanthus belong in another place but my girl would put a song in my heart ... so I'll call my new seedling 'Winter Song' which will cause translating readers much less trouble :-*
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Woke up feeling pretty grotty this morning (not surprising really since Maureen has been coughing and sneezing and shivering for the past couple of days) but the sunshine (that does really make a change) tempted me outdoors. For the first time this Crocus season I had open buds without having to bring them into the kitchen for an hour, and here are the results.
Crocus tommasinianus 'Rosea'
Crocus etruscas 'Zwanenberg'
Crocus gargaricus ssp. herbertii, quite small and hasn't elongated-this one from Dirk, many thanks Dirk
Crocus rujanensis again quite small, and this also from Dirk
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Tony
biflorus isauricus is a stunner :o
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A few more from today's photographic expedition.
Crocus chrysanthus 'White Beauty'-this one from Thomas, many thanks Thomas
Crocus chrysanthus 'Blue Pearl'
Crocus chrysanthus 'Fuscotinctus'
Crocus chrysanthus 'Zwanenberg Bronze'
Why can't it be sunny every day? ;D
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Tony great photos and plants as ever. David I didnt know you had a big collection. You must be addicted like the rest of us
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Wonderful crocus from everyone. Until I joined this forum I thought my garden on the south coast was early. Now I realise it is not.
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.......... David I didnt know you had a big collection. You must be addicted like the rest of us
Have been addicted since I first joined the Forum and with much help from many generous Forumists, as well as spending my 'hard earned', I'm beginning to get a reasonable collection together. I've got Crocus seed pots coming out my ears so in years to come I hope to get to the point where I have spares and maybe be able to help someone else get a collection together. Next steps- myown seed production and then try some hybridisation maybe.
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Tony
biflorus isauricus is a stunner :o
Oron thank you,I am trying for seed,dabbing it daily
David they are very nice. Would those cultivars not grow outside and free up some space
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Great show everyone ! Some stunning flowers there !
Out here it's quite cold and foggy again (0°C at noon) - so still not much moving so far.. here's hoping... :-\
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Tony
biflorus isauricus is a stunner :o
Oron thank you,I am trying for seed,dabbing it daily
David they are very nice. Would those cultivars not grow outside and free up some space
Yes Tony, they would, but having spent good money on some of them I wanted to see them in first class condition. Some are also in small numbers yet but eventually some will go outside.
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I wanted to see them in first class condition
I agree with David's comment. Whenever we buy 'common' small bulbs such as chrysanthus hyb or Iris reticulata type iris we put a few in a pot in the greenhouse to enjoy. The rest of the packet go into the garden to be enjoyed later, weather permitting. Anything even slightly special goes into a pot to be bulked up before risking it in the open.
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David I understand that, and it is a joy to be able to hold them up under ones nose to see them closely without crawling around on the floor
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At last some sun to tempt the flowers to open! Here are C. korolkowii dark throat, and C biflorus ssp nubigena from Thomas. It looks very like the Crocus biflorus issauricus pictured earlier - are they the same thing?
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Hi Anne
I have the same form of Crocus biflorus ssp nubigena as you .... from the same source, pictured below.
It is quite different in its markings and colour to the C biflorus ssp isauricus that I showed earlier. However the biflorus group is complex (and sometimes controversial) so applying names in cultivation is tricky. Janis might have something to say about our plants (he has already shared some knowledge of Crocus biflorus in this thread I think) given his experience of these plants in the wild.
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Tony it is difficult to see any difference between your nubigena and issauricus. I only called mine issauricus because of where it came from.There does seem to be a(very small) gap in the distribution and I suppose its down to the view of whether they are differentt or not. As you say controversial.
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I'll try and photograph my two side by side on Friday when the sun and I have an appointment (at work Thursday). They are different to look at although morphologically I doubt I could seperate them. My ssp nubigena does look quite like your ssp crewei a few pages ago though!
I would love to see the plants in the wild to get a better picture of the variation (and a better understanding of the geography!) but I doubt it would clear up many of my uncertainties!!
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At last some sun to tempt the flowers to open! Here are C. korolkowii dark throat, and C biflorus ssp nubigena from Thomas. It looks very like the Crocus biflorus issauricus pictured earlier - are they the same thing?
I think C. biflorus ssp nubigena is one of the best looking Crocus' around !! A real eye catcher ! :o
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The great advantage of spreading my collection to friends worldwide is to see
photos of my plants in a time when nothing grows in my own garden ;D
Great photos, Anne, David, Tony and everyone else!
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The great advantage of spreading my collection to friends worldwide is to see
photos of my plants in a time when nothing grows in my own garden ;D
Great photos, Anne, David, Tony and everyone else!
Thomas, you have truly a world-wide collection!!
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Tony,
C. biflorus subsp. isauricus spread in a very wide region. Which I have seen before from different turkish forum also, they were usualy lilac or dark lilac with yellow anthers. C. biflorus subsp. nubigena, usualy white flowers with black anthers in one region with connective balckish yellow. For rare forms of biflorus sp, is very difficult to itentify if we don't know where it cames from.
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Super images from everybody :D 8)
Ibrahim,
thank you for sharing your "field explorations" experiences with the forum.
It is always a source of new realizations ;) ;D
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For rare forms of biflorus sp, is very difficult to itentify if we don't know where it cames from.
Ibrahim I have a problem with this statement. If it is a different species,i.e. unique,it should be able to be identified without its location.
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For rare forms of biflorus sp, is very difficult to itentify if we don't know where it cames from.
Ibrahim I have a problem with this statement. If it is a different species,i.e. unique,it should be able to be identified without its location.
Me too!
But 'difficult' may imply the need to dissect the plant (despoiling it :(). I agree that taxonomy that relies on location is problematic, perhaps genetic analysis would help .... or perhaps not. I guess that I am likely to remain a 'lumper'.
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For rare forms of biflorus sp, is very difficult to itentify if we don't know where it cames from.
Ibrahim I have a problem with this statement. If it is a different species,i.e. unique,it should be able to be identified without its location.
Me too!
But 'difficult' may imply the need to dissect the plant (despoiling it :(). I agree that taxonomy that relies on location is problematic, perhaps genetic analysis would help .... or perhaps not. I guess that I am likely to remain a 'lumper'.
Tony it must be in the name ,perhaps all Tony's are lumpers
On the basis some of these things are decided, if the same rules were applied to humans each one of us would be a sub species. Genetically we are all different. In Chorley this probably applies anyway
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Tony it must be in the name ,perhaps all Tony's are lumpers
On the basis some of these things are decided, if the same rules were applied to humans each one of us would be a sub species. Genetically we are all different. In Chorley this probably applies anyway
The central problem with traditional (Linnaean) systems of classification. The recognition of variation leads to the multiplication of taxa (subsp., var. etc). In principle, the end result could be as many taxa as there are individuals. Evolutionary biologists have attempted to address this problem but their solution simply raises other, intractable problems.
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Tony G.& W, You are not lumpers. Lumpers is your crocuses! They don't go in order that is why the taxonomists became lumber ;D
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Two Corsicans if flower today, minimus and corsicus
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Two days ago it was very nice and sun was shine so I took some pics.
which are in flower here at the moment.
C. ancyrensis
C. biflorus subsp. adamii 2
C. biflorus subsp. adamii
C. biflorus subsp. biflorus speckled
C. candidus
C. candidus large throat
C. flavus subsp. dissectus
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Lovely stuff Oron and Ibrahim
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very nice Ibrahim, I like the specled biflorus very much
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I like all of them, but the speckled biflorus is a definite favourite. :) :)
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Two Corsicans if flower today, minimus and corsicus
Oron,
very exiting. Both are one of my favourites. 8)
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Nice plants Oron,
you should come to see them in the wild, in Corsica !
I'm waiting for you ;)
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Thank you all,
And Fred thanks for the invitation, I'll probably get there some time,
By the way have you noticed different forms in C. minimus in the wild?
Ibrahim, great photos of beautiful species, thank you!!
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Oron,
I never went to Corsica in early spring to find Crocus :-[
Only in autumn for Arum, Acis, Cyclamen,.....
I have to go,...one time !
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By the way have you noticed different forms in C. minimus in the wild?
I suppose that C. minimus offered by Dutch are not really minimus. In seventies I tried to name it cutting shoots but I didn't remember my decision then and can't to find now papers. Of course it was flowering too early for minimus. Really minimus is the last spring crocus blooming in garden. True one I got from Pruhonice (then Czechoslovakia). They grew it from wild collected seeds and it was quite variable in color but they all started blooming only when last flower of other taxa wilted.
In Latvia Crocuses usually are blooming in April. 30th of Aprill normally is the last day of Crocus blooming outside. Crocus minimus never started before 3rd of May, in 1980 it started only 16th of May. Unfortunately I lost this stock in very hard winter before I built up my first greenhouse. Although I just noted that Crocuses here blooms in March-Aprill but minimus in May, few seasons ago we had so cold spring that Crocuses were in bloom even 20th of May, but I hadn't minimus then. Last daffodil blooms in that spring I cutted from field 24th of June.
Janis
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Some minimus in my collection starting with Dutch
Janis
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Some minimus in my collection starting with Dutch
Janis
The minimus from Sardinia has beautiful markings on the outside.
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What a great show we've been having !!! Wonderful pix everyone !! ;)
It's bitterly cold but very sunny out here, so here are some of mine :
1) Crocus antalyensis (from the renowned Hubi stable ;) ) - small flower but very attractive !
2) Crocus aff. sieberi - pjc 215 - obtained from B & R Wallis
3) Same
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Lovely Luc, that Hubi stable takes some beating ;D
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Janis - I have to agree with Martin, the plant from Sardinia is exceptionally handsome.
I presume C. minimus 'Bavella' - introduced by Alan Edwards - is the real thing.
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Janis - I have to agree with Martin, the plant from Sardinia is exceptionally handsome.
I presume C. minimus 'Bavella' - introduced by Alan Edwards - is the real thing.
Gerry
Do you mean 'Simply the Best' :) I would agree
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Finally got a pic of the two biflorus types side by side. On the left the biflorus ssp nubigena and on the right biflorus ssp isauricus or at least that is what I received it as. Quite similar but of a different hue. Both lovely though. This form of ssp nubigena is one that I have been growing for 12 years, not the plant that came from Hubi. ... The second pic is the form of biflorus ssp nubigena that Thomas grows.
Next a form of Crocus biflorus ssp alexandrii. This has purple stippled outer petals very similar to a form of ssp biflorus that Ibrahim showed. However ssp alexandrii has a white throat while ssp biflorus has a yellow throat.
Crocus adanensis - easy in a pot. Has anyone tried it outside?
Crocus kerndorffiorum x leichtlinii. I was given a single corm a few years ago. (Mind you it crossed the atlantic twice before it reached me!) It seems a vigorous thing, now I have two flowering size corms and the promise of a third. If anyone grows either of the parents I would make a swap. Oddly they are two of my 'missing' taxa.
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Tony
Looking back to your original photograph of isauricus (reply 298), I notice it had black anthers like melantherus and crewei. Cannot remember a reference to isauricus having black anthers - is this something special? ;)
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Tony Looking back to your original photograph of isauricus (reply 298), I notice it had black anthers like melantherus and crewei. Cannot remember a reference to isauricus having black anthers - is this something special? ;)
Yes and No! It is special, 'cos its very beautiful. But I think that it is probably misnamed. I had it from TH, he had it from JS, don't know how many other homes it has had. And we come back to the "difficult to name unless you know which mountain it grew on" problem. OR there may be more variation in ssp isauricus than is recorded. Sorry this does not really help but the biflorus group are fiendishly difficult for the armchair amateur like me!
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On the subject of things not fitting the prescribed pattern. Here is a spring flowering form of Crocus biflorus ssp melantherus. This one is true to name, it came as seed collected by Steve Keeble in Greece.
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On the subject of things not fitting the prescribed pattern. Here is a spring flowering form of Crocus biflorus ssp melantherus. This one is true to name, it came as seed collected by Steve Keeble in Greece.
Could this be a disjunct population of crewei ;D
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If the Dutch forms of minimus above (Janis's) are not minimus, what could they possibly be? 'Bavella Form' as I have it (from Marcus Harvey who I believe had it from Alan Edwards), is a different inside colour as well as the heavily black outer segmants. The inner colour is almost magenta rather that purple. But I have a seedling from my own minimus which has an even blacker outer colour, virtually no edge at all, but the inner colour is the more usual purple.
These pics are from spring 2007
[attachthumb=1]
[attachthumb=2]
The upper picture is what I have as 'Bavella Form' but doesn't show the inner colour well. The lower picture shows my very dark form plus, on the left, another with very large flowers. I have many in this same quite large patch which are more feathered in outer marks than solid colour. Apart from Bavella, all are seedlings from an original single corm of C. minimus. The dark form flowered before I had Bavella so is not a seedling from 'Bavella Form.' I guess what I'm saying is, C. minimus can vary tremendously even within a single group.
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I use for identification of true minimus just the very late flowering time. Eva Petrova in Acta Pruhoniciana (vol.33, 1975) wrote that it is the last crocus blooming in their collection. That one which I got from Van Tubergen was much earlier and flowered together with other crocuses. Bavella and form from Sardinia both here are extremely late and the last crocuses blooming in my collection.
I just sorted out great heap of Crocus description forms from eighties and found forms of both Dutch and native minimus but I found only that descriptions was incomplete and on Dutch form was written - incorrect, but I didn't noted what it seems to be. Pity.
Tonight we had minus 19 C.
Janis
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Lesley
Have you separated out the nearly total black plant, and is it increasing? A striking Crocus :)
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Cannot flowering time of different clones vary considerably? I am thinking of the many snowdrop varieties/cultivars that vary by months in their flowering time even within a species.
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I try to label all my pots with source, date and specie. Occasionally :) this does not happen and I would welcome identification of this potful. I also show a rogue Crocus present in the pot that I would like identified.
Thanks
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It will take greater experts than I am to help you with the ID Arthur - but I do know a good Crocus when I see one ! It's a stunner ! :o :o
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Someone asked me to post pictures of my pot of Crocus abantensis as they progressed. Photos were taken yesterday.
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From the bulb house yesterday - Crocus biflorus isauricus. The original two bulbs from Kath Dryden are now three :)
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Thank you all for these splendid pics. Under glass and with the sunshine, several species open their blooms
Crocus biflorus adamii
Crocus biflorus crewei
Crocus biflorus isauricus
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Luc
My antalyensis is very different with white anthers
Crocus antalyensis
Crocus antalyensis
Crocus biflorus melantherus
Crocus biflorus melantherus
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Luc Sorry, I would say white stigmate for my antalyensis
Crocus biflorus melantherus
Crocus biflorus nubigena
Crocus biflorus nubigena
Crocus biflorus nubigena
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Crocus angustifolius 4 years sown, first bloom !!! Very orange coour of C. flavus and an unidentified biflorus
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Here is Crocus angustifolius MINOR
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Crocus corsicus from seed - first flowering
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ok
Crocus nevadensis
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Lovely plants there Dom and Arthur. What a difference between the outer markings on your respective forms of angustifolius.
My corsicus are a year or so behind yours; something to look forward to 8).
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Luc Sorry, I would say white stigmate for my antalyensis
They seem to be very different indeed Dom. - maybe Thomas can comment, as it's one of his ??? ???
By the way - some great plants there Dom and Art... you people know how to make a beginning Croconut drool... ::)
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Super - What a greenhouse flower show 8) 8) 8)
Congratulations to everybody.
Today I saw the first 3 buds of C.imperati "De Jager" in my lawn. Two of them were quite tiny and already withered. :(
Guess never opened due strong frost. Compared to 2008 the first "De Jager" buds opened January 20th together with C. ancyrensis "Golden Bunch".
The latter is not visible yet. Still too frosty.
With regards to the "true" C. minimus discussion does anybody heard of C. isauvicus "Spring Beauty".
It looks like a beautiful form of C. minimus. But what taxonomic is it exactly?
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I'd suggest your pots are minimus Arthur, not sure about the rogue though. My minimus starts mid-season with the bulk of others but it is always the very kast to have flowers on, a long flowering season once a clump is established, a full two months or a bit more. I can't complain about that.
I have separated out the dark one and have 3 now. It's being a bit slow for the moment but I hope to have one or two for Thomas and....... in a year or two.
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And then, there is the mystery of Crocus minimus 'Albus' which was sent to Australia (Otto?) by, I think, Brian Mathew and he should know what's what. I haven't seen it, and have just a single seed, not yet germinated, but apparently the size, shape and everything except colour conform to true minimus but it is pure white AND, to confuse the issue further, it is by far the EARLIEST to flower, May-July in one friend's garden. That would be Nov - Jan in the northern hemisphere.
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With regards to the "true" C. minimus discussion does anybody heard of C. isauvicus "Spring Beauty".
It looks like a beautiful form of C. minimus. But what taxonomic is it exactly?
Armin - could C.isauvicus be a typo for C. biflorus isauricus?
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And then, there is the mystery of Crocus minimus 'Albus' which was sent to Australia (Otto?) by, I think, Brian Mathew and he should know what's what. I haven't seen it, and have just a single seed, not yet germinated, but apparently the size, shape and everything except colour conform to true minimus but it is pure white AND, to confuse the issue further, it is by far the EARLIEST to flower, May-July in one friend's garden. That would be Nov - Jan in the northern hemisphere.
BM (p.37) mentions two albino forms: one with a yellow unstriped exterior & another (collected by the Crooks) which has on the outside 3 purple stripes on a yellow ground.
I have an albino form of C. corsicus which is yellowish on the outside - no stripes.
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I like Crocus minimus from Sardinia. 8) I have C. vitellinus in flower at the moment, but the weekend has been too cold and gloomy for the flowers to open. I will try it in the kitchen. 8)
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My Mathew is away on loan at present. Does he mention that one white form anyway, flowers very early while "ordinary" minimus is much later?
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My Mathew is away on loan at present. Does he mention that one white form anyway, flowers very early while "ordinary" minimus is much later?
Lesley - no mention of any difference in flowering time.
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With regards to the "true" C. minimus discussion does anybody heard of C. isauvicus "Spring Beauty".
It looks like a beautiful form of C. minimus. But what taxonomic is it exactly?
Armin - could C.isauvicus be a typo for C. biflorus isauricus?
Gerry,
sorry - it is C. isauvicus ???
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Dom and Arthur thanks lovely plants keep em coming
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Cannot flowering time of different clones vary considerably? I am thinking of the many snowdrop varieties/cultivars that vary by months in their flowering time even within a species.
Principally you are right - the flowering time can vary much. In case with Dutch C. minimus there were morphological differences, too, but as I wrote before, I not remember to which species I went after dissecting of plant. It was almost 30 years ago. I well know that just hidden morphological features are important in determination of Crocuses, but for practical gardening better not to destroy the plant, so flowering time in case of minimus for me is the most important feature. Sorry.
Janis
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Luc
My antalyensis is very different with white anthers
Two antalyensis - one from Sarichinar ridge in S Turkey (wild picture), another from Gundogmus - flower dissected to show white style.
Janis
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Crocus adanensis - easy in a pot. Has anyone tried it outside?
Mine grew outside for two years and I hope for their third year if the frost is gone.
C. antalyensis is another variable plant, like Janis shows white style and surely also
white anthers can appear from time to time. Dominique, what colour do the pollen have?
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And then, there is the mystery of Crocus minimus 'Albus' which was sent to Australia (Otto?) by, I think, Brian Mathew and he should know what's what. I haven't seen it, and have just a single seed, not yet germinated, but apparently the size, shape and everything except colour conform to true minimus but it is pure white AND, to confuse the issue further, it is by far the EARLIEST to flower, May-July in one friend's garden. That would be Nov - Jan in the northern hemisphere.
Lesley ,if you contact Marcus at once , I am sure he will include a few corms of Crocus
minimus albus in your order ,it has done well for him , I gave him some spares a long time ago - and yes , it was sent to me ,as corms , by Brian Mathew in the seventies
Otto.
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Janis your C. antalyensis is very good sample. This crocus I have seen in wild They always have short, much divided style and color is from white to orange like other C. biflorus's style. With satined lilac-blue petals.
Ibrahim
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a few more in flower
Crocus abantensis from Jim Archibald seed
Another Crocus biflorus issauricus
Crocus laevigatus and a view of it fully open
Crocus vernus
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Tony
Nice Crocus Your abantensis, like mine, are much darker than any I saw at Lake Abant. Not a bad thing, just surprising.
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Lovely stuff Tony.
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I did mention C. m. albus to Marcus but he hasn't mentioned it in reply. I keep adding to my order and he's probably getting titchy! :)
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Sunshine again today.
Crocus sieberi subsp.atticus
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Crocus sieberi atticus is one of my most favourite crocus.... and these pix show why!
Aren't they fantastic?
If they were not so delicate they'd make a super bouquet for a bride, wouldn't they? Just don't know how you would fix those squishy tubes to hold up properly ? ??? Not easy..... better to enjoy them in a pot, or, as we do.... but later.... in the garden, where they are very reliable.
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I bought sieberi atticus from Wisley in September. They are flowering now and sadly not as supplied. They are C. imperati. I foolishly thought they might be surplus stock.
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If they were not so delicate they'd make a super bouquet for a bride, wouldn't they? Just don't know how you would fix those squishy tubes to hold up properly ? ??? Not easy..... better to enjoy them in a pot, or, as we do.... but later.... in the garden, where they are very reliable.
The bride in question could surely carry the whole pot couldn't she? It's not so very big after all and wrap it round with a wide, white ribbon. I'm surprised it hasn't happened before. :)
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Michael a beautiful crocus and equally beautiful photograph. It is interesting to see a Crocus sieberi from Parnassus with such a strong yellow throat. The ones I have seen have been mostly difficult to distinguish from Crocus veluchensis and the yellow has been almost abscent. Here is a picture taken last spring
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Michael a beautiful crocus and equally beautiful photograph. It is interesting to see a Crocus sieberi from Parnassus with such a strong yellow throat. The ones I have seen have been mostly difficult to distinguish from Crocus veluchensis and the yellow has been almost abscent. Here is a picture taken last spring
Exactly my experience in 2007.
Michael - how many corms in the pot? It really is an excellent clone.
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Michael - how many corms in the pot? It really is an excellent clone.
There should be three corms in the pot.
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Three :o :o :o
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Michael a beautiful crocus and equally beautiful photograph. It is interesting to see a Crocus sieberi from Parnassus with such a strong yellow throat. The ones I have seen have been mostly difficult to distinguish from Crocus veluchensis and the yellow has been almost abscent. Here is a picture taken last spring
Exactly my experience in 2007.
Michael - how many corms in the pot? It really is an excellent clone.
That is a super clone.
Arthur glad you agree,sometimes it is difficult to be definitive and I think is memory playing tricks. I have never seen a good yellow throated Crocus sieberi on several trips to Parnassus. Here is one from Mt Parnon on the Pelopennese
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I could have made a mistake on the location. :-[
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I could have made a mistake on the location. :-[
Michael, I was not suggesting that at all, just delighted that somebody had manged to find such a great form. Although they are all wonderful it is sometimes very difficult in the field to even decide what species you are looking at and to see one so clearly fitting its description is excellent and instructive.
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I like them both ;D ;D ;D