Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: Frans IJsselstijn on February 23, 2007, 09:37:42 PM
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Hello everybody
My name is Frans IJsselstijn and I’m from the Netherlands
I collect Galanthus specially Galanthus species and sow and grow hardy and semi hardy terrestrial orchids.
I would love to get Galanthus ikariae ssp ikariae and Galanthus transcaucasicus.
Does someone know how to get those Galanthus species?
I have G.cilicicus, G.reginae olgae, G.reginae olgae vernalis and G peshmeni to exchange
Frans
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Hello, Frans, welcome to the forum! You will find a lot of snowdrop lovers here, they will be able to offer a lot of advice I am sure.
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I'm sure I saw Galanthus transcaucasicus at the Early Bulb Day last weekend? Wish I'd bought it now. :(
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Frans I dont grow any of those two and havent seen them for sale. I bought a pot of ikariae from a supplier and they turned out this year to be woronowii
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I have seedlings of Galanthus ikariae ikariae sown last year. My other bulb of this form (from Ikaria in the eastern Aegean) has divided in two this year. Not quite open yet. I don't have G. cilicicus and real G. platyphyllus is another that seems to be difficult to come by.
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Hi Frans ,
You can have from me Gal. ikariae ( true plants ) ,I grow also Gal. transcaucasicus but I have in this time not material enough to give it away -may be in some time .
I would be interestet for Gal. cilicicus
Please contact me private .
Hans
from Germany
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Mark, is this Galanthus ikariae? I was meaning to ask you. If so I will go and put it on my website, was wanting it confirmed before I listed it.
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before I can say for sure how big/small is the inner mark? That of ikariae takes up at least a third of the inner petal. woronowii usually has a very small mark like a capital B
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It has a small inner mark, so I it must be woronowii then. The plant finder (an old copy) has it listed as G. ikariae - Woronowii Group. What are your views? Do I list it as a seperate species or with the group name?
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Hi Susan ,Hi Mark,
You can G. ikariae recognosize if you cut a leaf and look for the cells ( this is written in the Galanthus book of A.Davis - page 160 ) the air cells are good visiable .
The plants on the picture from Susan loks more like G.woronowii -the color is not so dark like G. ikariae .
The inner mark helps not always real -there are also some G. woronowii with bigger marks.
Here are some pics made by me on a trip to Ikaria
Greetings
Hans
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Susan list it as Galanthus woronowii if it is that.
Hans your reply is still a little misleading. Do you think it's woronowii or ikariae?
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Hans, the leaves do not look the same as in your plant, mine are wider with 3 distinct ridges. I wouldn't say that the air cells were very obvious so I think it will be woronowii. Thanks for your help. Mark also. Will go and list it now.
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Susan ,
Here is again a scann of my garden G. ikariae ,there is visible the bulks on on surface of the leaves .
Here is a other pic from a real G. woronowii from a trip in Turkey
Greetings
Hans
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Hans,
It certainly looks more like G. woronowii. Here is a picture of the whole plant, its such a dull day here that I can't get a photo of the inner markings.
Mark/Hans let me know if you change your minds. now about a price :-\
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Thank you for all the anwers
Frans IJsselstijn
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Susan you dug the group for a photo!!? You should know better
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Anyone bought 'The Genus Galanthus' by Davis recently? Price?
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Anthony do you have the 'Snowdrops' book? If you dont I would buy it
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Yup, got that one a couple of years ago. I noticed that the other book sells for £75 here but $39 in the US. Trouble is $21 postage for one and $22 postage for two.
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Still cheaper, though, with the exchange rate?
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No, not that book.
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Mark, safely planted back in to the ground :)
I like looking at the bulbs for I.D. and also the seed/ seed heads. Its amazing how different they sometimes are, sometimes in Frits, Ariaeamas and Corydalis especially it is easier to identify them this way that by the flowers. I wish more books showed the whole plant including the bulbs and seed heads.
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Anthony ,
Please look here :
http://www.amazon.de/Genus-Galanthus-Botanical-Magazine-Monograph/dp/0881924318/sr=1-2/qid=1170099361/ref=sr_1_2/302-7783054-1114469?ie=UTF8&s=books-intl-de
Greetings
Hans
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Hans, Anthony will be happy now
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Anthony I bought mine in mid-summer when there wasn't so much interest for ten quid. Worth a thought.
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Hallo Frans,
Galanthus transcaucasicus heb ik gekocht bij de bolle jist,Finkum.
Hij komt ook op maar bloeit nog niet.succes.
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Frans,nog vergeten,hun Ikariae is woronowii !
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Still cheaper from the US Mark, but £10 is a good buy.
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I bought mine in mid-summer when there wasn't so much interest for ten quid
Good thinking Brian, have you Scots blood?
Loes, welcome to the forum. Please bear in mind that the common language of the forumists is English.
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Frans,nog vergeten,hun Ikariae is woronowii !
Hi Loes ,
I'm sorry but you are wrong -G. ikariae is a own species
In earlier times goes a lot of plants under G.ikariae v. latifolius - this is a woronowii ( a misstake from earlier botanists ) .
Now exists G. ikariae ssp. iakiae and Gal. ikariae ssp.snogerupii
Best wishes
Hans
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maggi,english it is.
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Genealogy is my other main interest so I know that I don't have Scots blood Maggi - but I am 50% Yorkshire which accounts for it!
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Loes, thank you! :-*
Brian, this explains everything. Ian's Mum is from Leeds! :o
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Now I know why his greenhouse fan was recycled froma beer cooler ::)
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Not pure bred Leeds then. He'd still have the beer cooler intact, just in case, if he was. I do! Never mind, my aunty was had two chemist shops in Leeds. I'm sure she'd find a cure?
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Ian's Granny's family had a pub at one time, before the Brits started cooling beer!
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Mine too durin't war, then she opened an (unlicensed ???) hotel in Hudderfield. It was pulled down to widen the road past the police station over 20 years ago! The day after the purchase order was signed some nut sent in workmen to put an axe through each of the beautiful oak doors inside the building. Morons. >:(
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This looks good? http://www.buybooks.me.uk/isbn/0881924318/
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Now exists G. ikariae ssp. iakiae and Gal. ikariae ssp.snogerupii
Do you think this plant is the real snogerupii ? It's under this name I had it
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anothers photos...
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Hi Bio ,
It is difficould to say - the differnce from snogerupii to ikariae is by my own plants :
ikariae has dark green leaves
snogerupii has more ligth green with more shiny leaves .
Futher snogerupii should flowering earlier - in my collection not a difference .
By my trip on Ikaria I found always only the darker form .
Is your plant from Czech. Rep. ?
Greetings
Hans
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Mine is very early, about january.
And yes it is from Czech Republic ;), some years ago...
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OK -you can be shure that you have a real snogerupii
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You may be interested in his page from the old forum:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/8/14532.html?1123799214 where there is discussion about G. snorgerupii.
Here is a photo of Paul Tyerman's from that page of the plant he grows as G. snogerupii:
[attachthumb=1]
Haven't heard from Paul for a while, hope you are okay, Paul! ???
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Not one I've seen :(
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that last one looks very like ikariae 'Seersucker'
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Does anyone out there have any spare platyphyllus (not the one advertised as ikariaea latifolius (platyphyllus)) to exchange for a krasnovii bulb?
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Anthony I know someone with the right G. platyphyllus but as far as I know she has never let any go. She may be tempeted by the swap. Most others who have it dont so be very wary of a one for one swap
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Let me know if she wants to talk turkey Mark. I think krasnovii is a very elegant snowdrop and platyphyllus would compliment it nicely.
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I think I will get some of them in March/April.
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Anyone sorted out the problems with 'South Hayes'? It's still on my 'most wanted' list but seems to have disappeared off the radar?
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Me too, but that's a lot easier said than done - particularly if you don't have deep pockets. Personally I'm all for trades rather than purchases but then you need to own something equally desirable and in sufficient numbers that you can spare a bulb.
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.... but then you need to own something equally desirable and in sufficient numbers that you can spare a bulb.
So true Alan.
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It will/should appear at some of the events this year.
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you need to own something equally desirable and in sufficient numbers that you can spare a bulb.
That is a problem but then it shows the worth of trying you hand at growing some from seed, whether a deliberate cross or not, in a few years you never know what you might have from those lovely virescent ones.
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That is a problem but then it shows the worth of trying you hand at growing some from seed, whether a deliberate cross or not, in a few years you never know what you might have from those lovely virescent ones.
Last year I found an early-flowering elwesii with a big fat seed pod, extracted the seeds, potted them up in compost covered by a layer of grit. So far nothing, nada, zilch, zippo. Not a sign of anything germinating. I must be doing something wrong - in fact, given my level of knowledge and experience, probably several things wrong. Any hints on raising snowdrops from seed (please respond on another thread if you feel this is taking us off-topic)?
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Any hints on raising snowdrops from seed (please respond on another thread if you feel this is taking us off-topic)?
Where to start? Alan, keep watching this thread. I'll try to find time to post some general seed sowing stuff tomorrow. In the meantime, assuming the seeds were fully ripe (yellow seed pod) and you sowed them right away, not letting them dry out, and kept the compost moist all summer, it's not too late for them to germinate. I'm finding in these mild winters (this and last year) that some of my seed (I sow hundreds of seeds from my crosses every year) is becoming reluctant to germinate. I blame the ridiculously high temperatures and almost total lack of frost in England last winter and this.
I've just given those seed pots that aren't germinating a few trips into the freezer - just for an hour at a time to just start the pots freezing through, then out again to let them thaw, repeating as often as I have time to do it. I'm hoping that'll get them moving.
Some seed (especially reginae olgae) is germinating like cress in the mild weather, but others are much slower than in past, colder winters.
You could try doing what I've done - a few spells in the freezer, but don't leave them in to freeze solid for too long - just enough to start freezing then out again. Or maybe even in the coldest part of the fridge for a week.
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I think there is every possibility that my seeds were not kept moist throughout the summer - it's impossible to do this when I go away on holiday (and I am not that good at remembering such chores anyway). But many snowdrops grow in regions where the summer climate is hotter and drier than ours so I was hoping they could withstand my neglect.
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Alan, I've found that pots of snowdrop seeds are best kept slightly moist (but not wet) during summer. If the seeds dry out completely for a long period, they seem to go into a deep dormancy and may take a number of years to germinate, if at all. For the same reason, they need to be sown straight from the pod.
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My seed pots are kept on a bed of sand and the snowdrop pots receive very little direct sunlight. Seeds sent from Germany all germinated the spring after they were sown.
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Having your seeds go dry would be like sowing seedex seeds.
I looked up my germination data from seedex seeds and posted it somewhere.
Let me go find it.
OK. It was the final message in the Seeds from the Caucasus.
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Quote from: mark smyth on December 17, 2007, 12:38:30 PM
I dont think the Galanthus seeds would be alive this late
I have had fairly good success germinating Galanthus from seed exchanges.
I've had no germination from nivalis and a few unusual ones.
G. reginae-olgae always germinates. I sow them as soon as they arrive,
usually in December, and they germinate the following December, or
occasionally two or three months later than that.
I know the names have changed, and the seeds might not have been correctly
labelled. However, these have germinated in less than a year: caucasicus,
fosteri, and plicatus.
I've sown only one lot of G. gracilis which took 18 months to germinate. (January
to the July after the next).
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I have grown very little snowdrops from seed, only two in fact but, for what it's worth, here is my experience: G. caucasicus was the first different snowdrop I ever grew; before that I had only G. nivalis. This came very easily from seed, simply sown in a normal seed and potting compost, covered with grit and left outside in a shady spot afterwards until ready for planting in the garden. It continues to grow as an excellent garden plant.
In the last few years I have taken the seed from G. 'Wendy's Gold', which I grow in a raised bed where the soil is covered with bark. I have simply scraped back the bark in one spot and scattered the seed onto the soil. Germination followed the following spring on the two occasions on which I did this. No flowers from this yet.
Paddy
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Diane, interesting that you always get good germination with Gal. reginae-olgae seed - me too. Reginae-olgae, being generally a lower-altitude warm-climate species from around the med., obviously doesn't need so much cold to germinate as other species. Maybe it can also germinate more readily from dry seed as it's the one species that is specially adapted to a very warm, summer-dry mediterranean climate.
The other species tend to be naturally adapted to cooler, less summer-dry woodland conditions, generally at higher altitudes. For their seeds, drying out completely with hard seed coats would tend to indicate unusually dry/hot seasonal conditions which would tend to induce longer dormancy to ensure the seed does not germinate during a hostile season.
For reginae-olgae, however, seed that becomes dry and hard in summer would not be an unusual occurrence and might not induce such deep dormancy.
With snowdrop seed generally, I'm nit saying that dried seed will never germinate the next spring. But it's been well known, especially amongst those who've regularly tried to sow a lot of snowdrop seeds over recent decades, that dry seed can be very erratic - it may germinate normally, or it may wait 2 or 3 years, or never come up.
The recommendation has always been to sow snowdrop seeds as soon as ripe. And I once read that narcissus seed should ideally have a warm, moist period then a cold moist period to maximise germination percentages. Since galanthus is closely related to narcissus, I tried that for the snowdrop seeds and found that germination was much more reliable if the seed pots were never allowed to become bone dry during summer. I keep them under glass, to ensure they never get too wet or too dry, and water by hand very sparingly to ensure they're always very slightly moist - which equates to their natural woodland conditions. And usually I've had close to 100% germination.
Except last winter and this winter, which have been so mild and frost-free here that I think lack oflow temperatures must be causing erratic germination (some pots are producing nothing at all, and sometimes the same seed split between two pots will germinate in one pot and not the other).
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As I mentioned.
This time I tried to germinate Galanthus seeds (from 2013) indoor.
They just started.
Last Time outdoor storage, they where futher developed, already had bulbs by this time of the year.
I kept them this time in a bag with peat moss, in my unheated studio on the floor under a table. Temperatue changes much less than outside. No cold period jet. ;)
They will form now a bulb which will grow its first leaf in spring.
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Partisangardener
Why do you start your experiment before the wintertime, why not after the winter?? All seedlings like to get more and more light/sun - just spring time ???
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What I said before. Delayed germination underground. They grow a bulb now and after the winter the first leaf in spring 2014.
They don't need light now. 8)
If I would sow them in spring2014, the first leaf would mostly be in 2015 and poor germination.
I kept the fruits in this bag for some weeks in green condition. When they lost the seeds I kept them moist.
They did three weeks ago just nothing.
Now I checked again.
Last time I kept them in a pot with some earth sunk in the ground at a shadow place. When in October I wanted to sow them, it was already a mess of bulbs and roots very difficult to tear apart.
To prove my theory I kept them in a plastic bag to show everybody how they germinate.
I thought this was common knowledge at first, but I was probably wrong?
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Here I told first about my finding.
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10074.msg267782#msg267782 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10074.msg267782#msg267782)
I could not find it at first, not used to this forum. :-[
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Leucojum vernum shows the same germinationpattern with me. I had several years enough seeds to see this.
What would happen in case of autumn sowing I don't know. Never tried it.
Observed germination was always more than 90 % forming a bulb. But many died in first hard winters (6b). Natural selection for my hard climate.
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Thought this might be of interest.
I had to dig up a clump of Galanthus elwesii last February because of botrytis. I found some recently germinated seedlings. The picture was taken onFebruary 22nd 2012
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Indeed it is Roma, and not only in the context of timing.
If deep positioning of the bulb is powered to any significant degree by the leaf then sowing deeper than 2-3 cm might be counterproductive :-\
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This is a bed that I grew from seed. They were sown summer 2005 after collecting. Spring 2012 was the first time they flowered and had 22 flowers. This past spring over 100+ flowers. I didn't take much care the first couple years after germination with this batch of seedlings, like feeding and such. I think one could reduce time to flowering by a couple years. Now I put down fresh worm compost and bone meal, and water with ferts.
Spring 2013 snowdrop seedlings.
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Pictures were taken Nov 11, 2010, these seedlings were from fresh seed sown June of that year.
1-2 snowdrop seed germinating
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Thought this might be of interest.
I had to dig up a clump of Galanthus elwesii last February because of botrytis...
Have you tried Trichoderma? See http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=6697.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=6697.0)
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Since the topic here is "Galanthus Wanted" I thought I could share my experience of recent days. That lovely daff lady in York, sent me some special Galanthus seed - back at the beginning of July. I wanted them very much but eventually decided that they had joined the ranks of the missing in action and would not arrive at their new home. I was thrilled therefore to have them arrive just a couple of days ago, still looking plump and healthy, 4 months after their dispatch from the UK. They are safely sown and hopefully will be none the worse for their time goodness knows where! ??? Some iris seed from France is apparently on the same mystery trip. :'(
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Thanks for pointing that out Lesley, being an old thread I doubt anyone even looked at the topic. I read last couple posts and wanted to share, to be fair the topic did change way back in 2008.