Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: David Nicholson on December 07, 2008, 07:45:06 PM

Title: Romulea species
Post by: David Nicholson on December 07, 2008, 07:45:06 PM
Just picking up on Oron's comments in the Ornithogalum thread and I quote:

"..... another genus which doesn't receive enough attention is Romulea, a stunning group of plants....."   Oron promises some pictures in early Spring. I thoroughly agree with Oron's assertion

Romulea is a genus which has rapidly become another of my 'obsessions' It started with the purchase of a few seeds of R. zahnii from one of the AGS Shows which eventually became my first (and so far only) bulbous plant grown from seed to flower. In 2007 I bought R. tempskyana and later Michael Campbell was generous enough to send me R. linaresia, R. citrina and R. multisurcata as well as a number of corms of which he was unsure of the species. All of these are currently growing away.

Since then I have added corms of R. atandra, crocea, leipoldtii, saldanhensis and tortuosa and have sown seed of atandra, columnae, ramiflora, camerooniana, diversiformii, eximia, flava, hirta, macowanii, nivalis, obscura subtestacea, pratensis, requienii and subulosa.

I certainly look forward to Oron's pictures.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Maggi Young on December 07, 2008, 08:50:59 PM
David, has anyone ever told you that you suffer from an addictive personality?   ???   Must be why you're in such good company here in the Forum  ::)
I do agree that Romuleas are another unfairly neglected genus. It seems you are making a tidy collection there... and all started by an odd packet of seed from an AGS show....I presume that would be surplus seed, after the exchange, which, like in the SRGC, is sent around the shows? How fantastic are these seed exchanges that even after sending out thousands of packets of seed there are still such gems to be found ?  I know I have often been surprised when looking at the tray of surplus seed, (even when we at Aberdeen are the last SRGC "Spring" show) to see items that I would have thought would have been snapped up long since! 
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Oron Peri on December 07, 2008, 09:18:48 PM
David and Maggi,

I have decided to give some color to this new thread...
It is still early for their bloom season, so here are some photos i took last year.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: tonyg on December 07, 2008, 09:36:25 PM
Were these photos taken at home or on your travels Oron?  They have a wild look about them :)
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Oron Peri on December 07, 2008, 09:43:19 PM
Tony,

All photos are taken in the wild, although i grow all these species in pots.
Generally i prefer taking photos in the natural habitat, some how plants look to me happier.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Tony Willis on December 07, 2008, 10:34:27 PM
Oron lovely pictures.

I see that R phoenicia is supposed to flower January to March so it must be an early season.

I have R. bulbocodium collected in Greece in 1997 which flowers reliably every year in about  march. I have never tried any of the South African ones.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: ashley on December 07, 2008, 10:51:44 PM
Wonderful to see these Romulea and Ornithogalum in the wild; many thanks Oron.

Those bulbocodium look quite different to the form most widely grown here.  The second one is particularly fine I think. 
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Maggi Young on December 07, 2008, 10:53:12 PM
Quote
I see that R phoenicia is supposed to flower January to March so it must be an early season.

Tony, I think you missed that Oron tells us these photos are from last year.... he is just whetting our appetites for the coming year!
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Tony Willis on December 07, 2008, 11:30:44 PM
Sorry further lack of attention to detail.Maggi good job you are on hand to keep us on our toes
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Maggi Young on December 08, 2008, 12:04:03 AM
Please don't apologise, Tony, I meant no criticism... it's part of my forum task to read everything...... of only I could remember the half of it!!  ;)
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Oron Peri on December 08, 2008, 07:06:54 AM
I see that R phoenicia is supposed to flower January to March so it must be an early season.
I have R. bulbocodium collected in Greece in 1997 which flowers reliably every year in about  march. I have never tried any of the South African ones.

Tony
 You are right,R. phoenicia is the first to flower [starting mid January].
If you ask me this species is not other then the common R. tempskiana.

R. tempskiana is very common in S, SE Turkey and Cyprus, while R. phoenicia grow in S Lebanon and Israel but there is not even one difference between the two.

Lately a new species from Jordan was discovered: R. petraea which differs from these by having a dark violet throat
insted of yellow, it grows in the area of Petra, I plan to go there next February in order to find it...
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Oron Peri on December 08, 2008, 07:15:43 AM
Wonderful to see these Romola and Ornithogalum in the wild; many thanks Oron.
Those bulbocodium look quite different to the form most widely grown here.  The second one is particularly fine I think. 

Thanks Ashley,
R. bulbocodium is the most variable, apart of the fact that it can be found in N. Africa, S. Europe and through all the Mediterranean. I'm not even sure they all belong to this species..
Even here in Israel every colony is slightly different in color and flower size.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Michael on December 08, 2008, 09:10:08 AM
The flora of Madeira mentions that there is an endemic species of Romulea both from Madeira and the Canary Islands, called Romulea columnae subsp. grandiscapa. But i had never seen this one. In what kind of habitats do Romulea species occur? I would love to see this one in the wild!
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Hans J on December 08, 2008, 09:32:02 AM
Here are some pics of Romulea from my travels on greek islands :

the first two are from Andros ( spring 2008 )

[attachthumb=1]

[attachthumb=2]

the third is from Ikaria ( spring 2006 )

[attachthumb=3]


 knows anyone a name for this plants ?

Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Tony Willis on December 08, 2008, 09:39:27 AM
here is the one I collected in Greece in flower last spring. I said 1997 in my previous post but it was actually 1987. Now seems a long time ago,time flys.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: David Nicholson on December 08, 2008, 10:00:05 AM
Oran, thanks for adding the first pictures.

Hans and Tony, it would be easy to say forms of R. bulbocodium??

Michael one for you from the PBS Wiki

 http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Romulea/Romulea_grandiscapa.jpg
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Tony Willis on December 08, 2008, 11:24:37 AM
Oran, thanks for adding the first pictures.

Hans and Tony, it would be easy to say forms of R. bulbocodium??



David that is true but on that basis do you not think it would be necessary to say 'forms of' on every picture that was not a named form. If you look at any group of plants of a species in the wild or in a pot they are all different in some way.Some people would say they were all different species something which I think has happened to a large extent in both crocus and narcissus.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Oron Peri on December 08, 2008, 01:13:58 PM
Here are some pics of Romulea from my travels on greek islands
knows anyone a name for this plants ?

Hans the first is R. bulbocodium var. leichtliniana, the dark purple one is R. tempskiana, both common in the Greek Islands.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: tonyg on December 08, 2008, 01:14:59 PM
Oran, thanks for adding the first pictures.
Hans and Tony, it would be easy to say forms of R. bulbocodium??

David that is true but on that basis do you not think it would be necessary to say 'forms of' on every picture that was not a named form. If you look at any group of plants of a species in the wild or in a pot they are all different in some way.Some people would say they were all different species something which I think has happened to a large extent in both crocus and narcissus.
And for most of us the more names there are the harder it gets to give a 'correct' name to any of them!  Naming local forms as seperate taxa may be useful in the wild but can be impossible for those of us largely raising from seed, often of cultivated plants. 
By nature I'm a cautious chap so prefer to lump things together but I'm not saying that I'm right .... just that its easier and sometimes safer :) :)
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Oron Peri on December 08, 2008, 01:25:53 PM
The flora of Madeira mentions that there is an endemic species of Romulea both from Madeira and the Canary Islands, called Romulea columnae subsp. grandiscapa. But i had never seen this one. In what kind of habitats do Romulea species occur? I would love to see this one in the wild!

Michael,

There is a big confusion and a long lasting debate about all the 'small sized flowers' Romuleas, some consider them to be subspecies of R. columnae others treat them as species, R. grandiscapa is one of them. [as well as for linaresii and ramiflora]

I would look for yours on the coast line in areas with firm, moist, sunny sand where they don't have competition with other plants  in particularly grasses.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Hans J on December 08, 2008, 01:55:38 PM
Here are some pics of Romulea from my travels on greek islands
knows anyone a name for this plants ?

Hans the first is R. bulbocodium var. leichtliniana, the dark purple one is R. tempskiana, both common in the Greek Islands.

Thanks Oron !
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: David Nicholson on December 08, 2008, 07:27:27 PM
Came across this whilst looking for something else. I had no idea they could be found in the UK and the site mnentioned at Dawlish Warren is only 15 miles or so from me.

http://www.guernsey.net/~cdavid/botany/files/romulea%20columnae/index.html
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Joakim B on December 09, 2008, 03:44:36 PM
David can we then hope for pics?
You seem almost set to go there so I am trying to put some extra incentive for You to go.
I will see if I can see any here in Portugal I think they do exist but I have not been particularly good in seeing/finding wild plants but hope to improve.
Kind regards
Joakim
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: David Nicholson on December 09, 2008, 03:49:57 PM
Joakim, I have to say that Dawlish Warren is not a place I usually visit by choice, it is a vast series of caravan sites, but I suppose I have an incentive now.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Ezeiza on December 09, 2008, 07:08:32 PM
Hi Oron:

            Can you mention any recent botanical key for these Romuleas? That in Flora Europaea do not seem to cover all these species. Since Moraea (Gynandriris) sisyrinchium is such a widespread plant all over the Mediterranean, it is not impossible that R. bulbocodium could be the same species over so many many countries.

            But, South African Romuleas are delimited considerating the corm shape, as the flowers in several are too similar.

Best
Alberto
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: David Nicholson on December 09, 2008, 07:27:32 PM
Alberto, is this any use?

http://www.mnhn.fr/publication/adanson/a01n1a4.pdf
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Ezeiza on December 09, 2008, 08:51:00 PM
Dear David:

                 It is this group that is well studied and defined. The problem lies in the Eurasian and N. African species. I have grown a number here under different names but they all seem to be some three species and their color variants.

                 Many thanks.

Alberto
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Oron Peri on January 05, 2009, 12:29:20 PM
Opened today the first Romulea for the season
R. tempskiana from Cyprus.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: David Nicholson on January 05, 2009, 12:35:14 PM
Lovely little flower Oran, mine are only just beginning to show their noses.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Oron Peri on January 05, 2009, 12:49:15 PM
Hi Oron:

            Can you mention any recent botanical key for these Romuleas? That in Flora Europaea do not seem to cover all these species. Since Moraea (Gynandriris) sisyrinchium is such a widespread plant all over the Mediterranean, it is not impossible that R. bulbocodium could be the same species over so many many countries.

            But, South African Romuleas are delimited considerating the corm shape, as the flowers in several are too similar.

Best
Alberto

Alberto,

Sorry to have notice your message only now.

I will answer you later on since there is a lot to say about Med. Romuleas. [I grow all  Med. species accept R. nivalis]
I'm afraid  I do not know of any recent key for this family.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Ezeiza on January 05, 2009, 07:33:22 PM
Thanks Oron:

                      I see we are growing the same species under different names in a number of cases, like Romulea "phoenicea".

                      The Flora Europaea criteria are based on the appearance of outer bract and bracteole (very important in Romulea) relation of style to anthers, etc. No mention of corm shape, so important in South African Romuleas. Another feature that seems useful and constant is the color of the tepals' backsides.

                       Your work is fantastic and each and every one of your postings is a lesson on the so little known bulbs and related plants of the Middle East. I have changed several of our labels after seeing your images.


Best regards
Alberto
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Oron Peri on January 05, 2009, 08:23:16 PM
Alberto
Thank you so much.
Bulbous plants have been my passion since the age of 6 and i have been growing and searching for them on and of since then...
I may be wrong in some cases so don't harry to change names on labels... ;)

R. phoenicia is growing in North Israel and Lebanon but there isn't any visual difference between this species and the more widespread Romulea tempskiana and so personally I regard it as R. tempskiana although on labels I write R. phoenicia.
Maybe a chromosome count would give an answer to its identity...
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: I.S. on January 06, 2009, 12:22:14 AM
Oron thank you for starting this topic. I also wish to add a little color from my region.
The first one is from Istanbul.
The second one is from near Kaz dağ / ida Balıkesir but I have seen this in Istanbul too.

Romulea columnae ssp. columnae
 Romulea columnae ssp. columnae 2
 Romulea linaresii subsp. graeca
 Romulea linaresii subsp. graeca 2

Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Oron Peri on January 06, 2009, 06:11:27 PM
Great photos Ibrahim,
do you know if other Romulea species reach the Istanbul area?

Attached a photo of R. columnae from Aksu, Antalya, they are realy tiny,
 beside there is a flower of R. bulbocodium just to give an idea of its size.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: tonyg on January 06, 2009, 10:49:30 PM
Thanks for the photo showing scale Oron - I have a tiny Romulea that came as seed with some crocuses, it is R columnae I am sure.  As has been said elsewhere your posts are always informative!
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: I.S. on January 06, 2009, 11:15:02 PM
Oron, I have seen only these two Romulea sp. in my region. (Istanbul) There should be also R. ramiflora and R. tempskyana somewhere in western Turkey and some R. bulbocodium sp. from south east which I couldn't see yet. As you say mines are very small and thiny but in crocus season what I see on wild I take photos...
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Oron Peri on January 09, 2009, 07:07:51 AM
Thanks Tony

 Thanks for the information Ibrahim,
I think probably all Eurasian Romulea grow in Turkey, certainly you live in a country which is blessed with the most beautiful and interesting small bulbs.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Oron Peri on January 19, 2009, 04:28:23 PM
Two more Romulea today:

Romulea crocea [Syn. R. bulbocodium var. crocea] from Antalya
Romulea tempskiana from Kemer
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: I.S. on January 21, 2009, 04:37:26 AM
Oron these are very lovely and sweet things. The first one is in my list as  Romulea bulbocodium subsp. crocea.
The second one looks very similar to my R. linaresii. I noticed only dark violet filaments on mine.
They seems very easy to grow!, no!


Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Oron Peri on January 21, 2009, 07:36:32 AM
Oron these are very lovely and sweet things. The first one is in my list as  Romulea bulbocodium subsp. crocea.
The second one looks very similar to my R. linaresii. I noticed only dark violet filaments on mine.
They seems very easy to grow!, no!

Ibrahim, The name of the first is not defined yet, you can find it under:
R. crocea
R. bulbocodium var. crocea [more sutible since it differs only by the flower's color]
R. bulbocodium ssp. crocea
I think for the time they are all valid names.

Romulea tempskiana is quite similar to R. linaresii but there are some differences, R. linaresii has  smaller flower, doesn't have a yellow throat,  the stemens overtop the style  and it blooms a bit  later.

I find this genus to be the easiest to grow. practically it doesn't need any attention, just plant it in a small pot and enjoy it for many years.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Maggi Young on January 26, 2009, 08:28:38 PM
I'm reposting this photo of Romulea tetragona (pic from Michael Campbell, posted in the Flowering Now thread) here, to join its friends!
[attach=1]
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: David Nicholson on January 26, 2009, 08:43:56 PM
Many thanks Maggi.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Oron Peri on January 27, 2009, 11:18:45 AM
Some more Romulea in flower today.

R. columnae Aksu, Antalya
 Romulea columnae - Aksu
 Romulea bulbocodium var. crocea
 Romulea bulbocodium
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: art600 on January 27, 2009, 02:47:55 PM
Whilst not enjoying the same acclaim as Crocus, if you really study them they can be like little jewels.  :)
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Ezeiza on January 27, 2009, 03:49:20 PM
Hi Oron:

            These superb images in which we can see the sexual organs are truly invaluable. As defined, the Eurasian species varies in the height of the style, how much they supersed the anthers, or if it is hidden among or past them, etc. So far I have been comparing your images with the botanical descriptions and all coincide. Furthermore, your identifications are exact.

            A feature that is not properly detailed over time is the color, pattern and structure of the bract and bracteoles. These are diagnostic and very important in identifying South African species. If they are equally constant in Eurasian species, their study would be well advanced. Another constant feature is the shape of the leaves (cross section).




Thanks

Alberto
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: biodiversite on January 27, 2009, 07:05:46 PM
Here is a Romulea from Cedar forest in Morocco : which species could it be ? "Only" R. bulbocodium ? It is just finishing to flower ; the plant is autogame and do not have vegetative multiplication...
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Oron Peri on January 28, 2009, 02:05:15 PM
Thank you Alberto.

I am glad you confirm my identifications.
As you have probably noticed only a few people grow this genus, and there isn't any 'Guru' or a good reference  to consult and so i study this genus from the little material written and by growing and observing them in my field trips in the Mediterranean.

Thanks for the encouragement
oron
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Ezeiza on January 28, 2009, 02:23:51 PM
Hi Oron:
   
            Not that Eurasian romuleas are easy to grow weeds but I suspect that there is even less interest from the impossibility of identifying them with any certainty. Moreover, fancy names, particularly of those from N. Africa, complicate things further.

           I will write more later.

Regards
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Oron Peri on January 28, 2009, 04:32:47 PM
Here is a Romulea from Cedar forest in Morocco : which species could it be ? "Only" R. bulbocodium ? It is just finishing to flower ; the plant is autogame and do not have vegetative multiplication...

Francois,
It is R. bulbocodium and a nice one since all its center is yellow.
in most forms the yellow stays only inside the throat.
This phenomenon of bluish -purple buds to then transform to a white flower is typical to R. bulbocodium and R. nivalis.
thanx for showing it.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: biodiversite on January 28, 2009, 06:54:40 PM
Thanks Oron (Fred is Bulbissime, a friend of mine ; I'm François, or Bio as it is said on french forum  ;) ).

Here is after a romulea from Podgorica in Montenegro : vegetative multiplication and gitonogamy (no autogamy possible) ; as I saw in the post, may I name her R. bulbocodium var. leichtliniana ? Flowering time is march in my garden.

Moreover, how do you differentiate R. bulbocodium and R. nivalis ? I have the last species from Paul Christian but I found it very similar to the first one...

Finally, only for the pleasure, a pict of R. hirta : interestingly, it is the only bulb which survive from a lot bought some years ago, actually the less tender : I sown its seeds and seedlings are also frost resistants  :D !
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: David Nicholson on January 28, 2009, 07:12:53 PM
Great posts folks, I'm learning a lot.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Oron Peri on January 28, 2009, 07:46:18 PM
Pardon Francois, vous aves raezon,

Yes, you can name the first R. bulbocodium var. leichtliniana.

It is quite hard to distinguish R. nivalis from R. bulb. out of its natural habitat.

Romulea nivalis grow at high altitudes usually above 1500m, and bloom just days after snow melts, around mid March.
It has much shorter leaves, color of the flower is basically white with yellow throat often veind purple with the upper part of the petal purplish blue.
But the best is to check the bulb: R. nivalis bulb tunic is membraneus  while R. bulbocodium bulb tunic is hard dark shell like , similar to Colchicum.



Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: biodiversite on January 28, 2009, 08:24:58 PM
Ein beaya veToda raba Oron
Your knowledges are very usefull  :)
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on January 28, 2009, 11:10:45 PM
Hello,
Apart from Tropaeolum I'm starting some new things : romulea, moraea and leucocoryne. I've sown some romulea which I've got through the seed exchange last year and much to my surprise I had 2 flowers ( R. "bulbocodium "I think ... ). So I decided to try others. Are they all that quick to flower from seed? Are they all  hardy? ( I'm from FRANCE ). By the way it's an interesting topic  even for beginners . Thanks for all your nice photos.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Ezeiza on January 29, 2009, 01:22:49 AM
The bulk of species in the genus are winter growing South Africans, the most striking ones are in this group. They come from frost free areas, enjoy full sun and many inhabit spots that become seasonal pools at flowering time. Of these R. hantamensis is hardy. Those from the mountains of South Africa and Africa, summer growers, are hardy in most cases.

Those from an Eurasian origin are hardy.

The most widespread species in Eurasia is R. bulbocodium, in which the style clearly overtop the anthers, and the bracteole, almost completely paper like, reddish or brownish. The floral tube, 4-8 mm. long, the bract, green and 1-2 cm. long. If the stigma branches are well exserted beyond the anthers the first guess is bulbocodium. Color or color combinations in the flower are not relevant as this species is variable according to the region.

Regards
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Rafa on February 01, 2009, 01:24:03 PM
Greetings from Romulea sabulosa, thanks to my friend Miriam, on its snowboard holidays  ;D
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: David Nicholson on February 01, 2009, 01:25:38 PM
Delicious!
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: dominique on February 01, 2009, 05:10:42 PM
Marvellous, Rafa ! Thanks
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Oron Peri on February 12, 2009, 11:21:12 AM
Romulea linaresii ssp graeca is in full bloom today,
It has a tiny flower with dark throat [not yellow].
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: David Nicholson on February 12, 2009, 08:16:49 PM
Very dainty, and very colourful too Oron.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Oron Peri on February 13, 2009, 04:08:21 PM
David, they are... despite the miniature size you can not miss them because of the shiny strong color.

This morning I went to visit a large colony of R. bulbocodium in search for interesting colors.
Here are some results that might become good cultivars, the pink form is a real surprise....
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: David Nicholson on February 13, 2009, 07:07:33 PM
If the pink was to be consistent it would be a rare colour break.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: David Nicholson on February 17, 2009, 06:48:12 PM
Here is my first Romulea of the season (a generous gift last year from Michael Campbell) R. linaresii and is, I think, ssp graeca. Sorry about the leaves crossing the face of the flower, I did have them neatly pegged back, until I pressed the shutter that is!





 
Title: Re: Romulea species Flowering indoors
Post by: Hristo on February 19, 2009, 12:39:54 PM
Hi there,
Nice to see a thread for Romulea, thought I'd post these 2009 pics and hope to have pics of R.tetragona later. Some confusion here for me, not sure if one of them, photo named grandiscarpa, is grandiscapa or zahnii, and another ( roms3 ) I have no idea about, help!
 ???

r.bulbocodium
 r.bulbocodium_crocea
 r.grandiscarpa.
 roms3
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Oron Peri on February 24, 2009, 12:42:34 PM
Another little star is in flower today:
Romulea rolii  [syn. R. columnae ssp rolii] originaly from Chios.
this little species differs from R. columnae by being more colorfull and by its much longer leaves. [up to 30cm]

Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Oron Peri on February 26, 2009, 05:00:10 PM
Today I went for a short visit at another R. columnae site.
I have found this ssp. a few years ago together with some friends at the north part of the Golan Heights in the same place where Cyclamen coum G.H. was found.
At the beginning we have found only a few plants and thought it to be extremely rare, but than i found out that by the end of February for about two weeks there are hundreds of thousends in bloom.
This subspecies is very colorfull heaving sword like, short leaves.

This is a unique colony in terms of altitude, 1150m, generally Romulea in the Mediterranan are low altitudes or coastal plants.

Attached Photos of the Habitat with Mt. Hermon covered with snow at the back.

I wasn't the only one to enjoy the Romulea as you can see...
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Rafa on February 26, 2009, 07:06:48 PM
terrific pictures! :o it rememer me many places in Spain with this sight of Romuleas and goats, very friendly ones! Although they eat everything I can't hate them and It is a very friendly animal to me. We have in Spain the following romulea species:

Romulea bulbocodium (L.) Seb. et Mauri
Romulea columnae Seb. et Mauri
subsp. columnae
subsp. asumptionis
Romulea clusiana (Lange) Nyman
Romulea ramiflora Ten
subsp. ramiflora
subsp. gaditana (kunze) Marais
Romulea uliginosa Kunze syn Romulea bulbocodium
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Oron Peri on February 26, 2009, 07:10:03 PM
Rafa, do you have by chance a photo of the last two you have mentioned?
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Rafa on February 26, 2009, 07:21:02 PM
No, I haven't... this species is not far from my village, 30 minutes or so and I will try to locate it. For many people is not valid species....
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: David Nicholson on February 26, 2009, 08:03:33 PM
Lovely Oron, for such little flowers they have a great deal of class.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Lesley Cox on February 26, 2009, 08:13:23 PM
That's the Golan Heights? Funny that one can get a totally erroneous picture in one's mind. I had imagined desert, and pretty stark desert at that. ???
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Lars S on February 26, 2009, 09:40:51 PM
Rafa,
what conditions does Romulea bulbocodium grow in in Spain, please ? I mean how cold in winter and how dry in summer etc.
I have some plants from seeds that I got from the Göteborg botanical garden a few years ago. The have survived three winters now but have not yet flowered. Maybe this year ...


Lars
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Lars S on February 26, 2009, 09:43:37 PM
Oh, and very nice pictures Oron. Like Leslie I would have imagined that the Golan Heights were a more arid and hostile place

Lars
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Rafa on February 26, 2009, 10:50:39 PM
This species is absolutely hardy, more than -15, thanks to the depth where the bulbs are placed, arround 7cm and It also grows in wet meadows, so most of the year the bulbs are in mosit or wet conditions. Just from late June to late September it is completely dry. These are the conditions for many iberic species...

I will collect seeds to send you of this species, it is very common.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Lars S on February 27, 2009, 09:05:56 PM
That´s very good of you Rafa.
I have actually kept my seedlings completely dry during summers and maybe that´s why the bulbs haven´t increased much in size. I´ll try to give them a bit more moist during the first half of summer.

Lars
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Rafa on February 27, 2009, 09:58:36 PM
yes, it is good idea, because little bulbs could be dehydratated if the soil is too dry...
Title: Re: Romulea species ramiflora
Post by: Hristo on February 28, 2009, 01:57:20 PM
It's a weed, but a pretty one! Sadly indoors in a planter with me, not running wild and free!
Though hope to find bulbocodium later in the year on the Black Sea coast. :)
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: tonyg on March 08, 2009, 04:55:32 PM
Romulea atranda - looking better than ever this year.  Easy from seed and hardy here.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Hristo on March 08, 2009, 05:24:14 PM
Super looking atranda Tony, waiting on tetragona here, have it in bulb frame and maybe outdoors in rock garden!
 :)
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Lesley Cox on March 08, 2009, 07:53:03 PM
A real beauty!
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Alessandro.marinello on March 08, 2009, 09:10:31 PM
of single giant the name ;D Romulea gigantea
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Oron Peri on March 08, 2009, 09:58:15 PM
Alessandro hai ragione,

The only explanation would be that the person that described this species for  the first time, haven't seen the actual flower :-X ;)

Very nice  atranda Tony  :o

Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Ezeiza on March 09, 2009, 01:29:24 PM
Hi:

    The flower is not gigantea, the plant is! Typycally Romuleas have different heights while in flower and later when the capsules ripen. R. gigantea can reach 50 cm. in height when the capsules are ready. Easy to separate from other Romuleas on this.

Regards
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Oron Peri on March 09, 2009, 01:49:28 PM
In that case I  take my words back,
Thanks for the information Alberto.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Ezeiza on March 09, 2009, 01:58:44 PM
Not at all, Oron.

                      Gigantea along with minutiflora, etc. can be readily identified by the small size of its flowers!
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Hristo on March 09, 2009, 02:50:49 PM
Allesandro, Ezeiza,
Many thanks for the pic and info on R.gigantea, the flower and the form described match my posting of ramiflora, never trust AGS seed I guess! ;D
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Ezeiza on March 09, 2009, 03:02:12 PM
But, Hristo:

               Both Romulea gigantea (South Africa, tender) and R. ramiflora (Eurasian, hardy) do exist and are good species. South African Romuleas are not so widely grown because they need strong sunshine and frost free conditions while in growth.

                It is very probable that your R. ramiflora is that species. Oron has been posting images of the "real thing" Romuleas. This is very useful as for instance R. bulbocodium has been widely distributed under other valid names. This is why there is such a dela of confusion concerning Romuleas in cultivation.

Alberto
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Maggi Young on March 09, 2009, 03:04:06 PM
never trust AGS seed I guess! ;D

One can never be 100 % sure of the naming of any seed from an exchange with as large a list and number of contributors as the AGS or SRGC, though every attempt is made for correct neaming..... mind you, you could say the same for  any seed.... mistakes, mix-ups, stuff happens!!! I'm just always pleased to hear of things growing from exchange seeds.... shows something is working in the system...... it may be incorrectly labelled, but there's a flower to enjoy!! 8)
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Hristo on March 09, 2009, 05:24:00 PM
I take your point Alberto,
However if we are accpeting that last posting by Allessandro is R.gigantea, then the plant I posted is also R.gigantea.
The flowers could be the same picture and the growth form is identical, you can not see on my photo that the flower is at the end of a 20cm stem that is actually still growing! The link below to the Pacific Bulb Society is quite illuminating.

Maggi, my appologies, 'never trust' might better read as 'Check thouroghly once flowering'!
I agree there is always a flower to enjoy, the great thing about this forum is I can now put a correct name to the plant I have grown under the 'wrong' name as supplied with the seed! This plant is setting seed ( lots of it ) and will go into seed exchanges, I would rather it went into an exchange under the correct name rather than perpetuating an error in naming, which it seems could be a common problem with this species, as per the link below. 8)

http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanRomuleasTwo#gigantea
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Ezeiza on March 09, 2009, 06:38:55 PM
That sound sensible!

Friends in England had been sending me seed they received from several Exchanges and it is very frustrating to finally find that something you were growing with great care turns out to be some odd hybrid or even plants of different genera. i have even grown Geissorhizas that showed conspicuous crocus leaves since germination.

Of course most of the stuff is good and properly named but it is a chore when that happen. Volunteer plants like this Romulea gigantea, Romulea rosea or Habranthus tubispathus are the culprits as they would easily invade nearby pots.

Regards
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Alessandro.marinello on March 09, 2009, 09:44:26 PM
 I have taken seeds from Silverhill, mine has anticipated the flower because it is found in greenhouse ???
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: tonyg on March 09, 2009, 10:28:31 PM
Thanks to the pbs link a few posts ago I am now in doubt about my Romulea atranda.  Going by the pics on the pbs site this could in fact be Romulea komsbergensis ???
Here is a close-up pic.  The two species above look very similar but the throat of the flower is apparently more veined in R atranda.  See what you think.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Ezeiza on March 09, 2009, 10:32:03 PM
Also see Romulea hallii
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Hristo on March 10, 2009, 06:09:06 AM
Hi Tony,
I see what you mean, in the pics Romulea komsbergensis has a more ponounced yellow throat than atranda, also your pics don't seem to show the clear blotch on the throat segments quoted for atranda!
So, are you sticking with atranda or cashing in for komsbergensis? ;)
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: tonyg on March 10, 2009, 09:05:18 AM
Hmmm - All the pics of R komsbergensis I can find fit better than the pics of Romulea atranda ... except for those which relate to the plants I grow and those of the person who supplied the original bulb to me.  More research needed I think.  I also found a pic of Romulea cruciata (on telos rare bulbs site) which looked rather similar :P  Having said that their pic of R atranda shows very strongly veined throat. 
Can our S African formuists help?
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: fermi de Sousa on March 11, 2009, 04:40:14 AM
Can our S African formuists help?
I think Rogan is a cricket fan and might still be in mourning or shock. ::)
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Pete Clarke on March 11, 2009, 06:05:03 PM
Romulea requienii.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: David Nicholson on March 11, 2009, 07:08:58 PM
That is very nice Pete. I sowed seed of R. requienii from the las AGS Seed Ex. so guess I've a few years to wait for the flowers.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Lesley Cox on March 11, 2009, 07:42:24 PM
Probably not long at all David. Roms are usually quite quick from seed.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: David Nicholson on March 11, 2009, 08:08:45 PM
Thanks Lesley.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: ashley on March 24, 2009, 12:04:59 AM
This looks like typical Romulea bulbocodium except that the stigma does not extend beyond the anthers.  It is also several weeks earlier than the other form I have.

Identified by Oron (below) as R. bulbocodium var. clusiana (= R. clusiana), from Iberia.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Joakim B on March 24, 2009, 10:47:35 AM
Ashley
I was just about to post pictures of what I think is Romulea bulbocodium from the park in Valle de Cana in Coimbra Portugal.
Some three weeks ago it was hundreds or even thousend in an area a quarter of the size of a football field. There was just flowers and a lot of colour variation with blues of different shades and with the two toned I will show later. The foliage was just 2-3 cm and the flowers were 4-5 cm, high/tall.
I did not bring the camera and only this weekend it was possible to return.
I did not see any. But then in the grassier parts I saw some most of them in this two toned colour. The others grew in sand that was packed hard as a rock in full sun. these had some shade so presumable that is why they are still around.
I saw no sine of foliage or seeds of the other ones.
I presume that it is bulbocodium since they are reported to exist in a nearby forrest/mountain.
Sorry for the bad pictures these are the best I managed. I think most of the foliage is grass.
They look a bit different from Ashley´s but I do not remember if the others also had some with the bright yellow throat or not. The difference in length might be due to higher levels of sun in Portugal and less water than in Ireland.
Maybe time of flowering was influenced by the previous year that may differ if the plants are new?

Kind regards
Joakim
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: ashley on March 24, 2009, 10:57:14 AM
Thanks for that description Joakim; it sounds like a great place to visit.  As far as I can see your plant has the usual exerted stigma.
It's always fascinating to see or hear about the growing conditions and variation in wild populations 8)
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Joakim B on March 24, 2009, 11:05:00 AM
Ashley
Thanks for the confirmation. :)
I did not look that closely on the plants so I do not know if this was typical stigma length or not.
I was almost in doubt that it was the same species all of them but I presume so.
Sorry to have forgotten the camera I was thinking on You all and hoped to get help identifying the ones but maybe next year.
It is just a mini park with the wild plants around being more interesting.  ::) 8). But it was no information about them.
Kind regards
Joakim
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Oron Peri on March 24, 2009, 05:29:57 PM
This looks like typical Romulea bulbocodium except that the stigma does not extend beyond the anthers.  It is also several weeks earlier than the other form I have.

Ashley,

Lovely colors,

I think your Romulea is R. bulocodium afterall, but this form had the name of R. clusiana, from Spain and Portugal.
It seems yours is originally from a clone that more than one bulb specialist sell in the UK, this might be also the reason why they all have the short style...
Do you know where your plants are originated?
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: ashley on March 24, 2009, 09:28:10 PM
Oron,

Many thanks for identifying this as R. bulbocodium var. clusiana (= R. clusiana)).  It fits the short description in 'Bulbs: the bulbous plants of Europe and their allies' by Grey-Wilson & Mathew (Collins, 1981) but since this makes no reference to stigma length I was unsure.

Unfortunately I don't know where it came from.  It appeared in my garden a couple of years ago as a tiny clump of seedlings, apparently from a buried seed capsule.  It's clearly different from the only other form of R. bulbocodium I grow and there are no other romuleas anywhere nearby.  Somehow it must have come in soil or with a nursery-grown plant.  Undoubtedly it's a lot nicer than a previous nursery stowaway - Australian flatworm (http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.co.uk/flatworm_australian.htm) Australoplana sanguinea var. alba which took me several years to eradicate :-X :P
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: ashley on March 28, 2009, 04:56:37 PM
Here's the other bulbocodium I referred to, with a style that's white & slightly longer, but it looks like var clusiana too.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Oron Peri on March 29, 2009, 04:47:36 PM
Ashley,

I have noticed it also on the second photo you have posted earlier, you can see on one of the flowers the white style that is also longer.
Probably this is why this form is considered to be R. bulbocodium var clusiana and not R. clusiana.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: ashley on March 31, 2009, 01:25:05 PM
Yes I think so.  Thanks for confirming these IDs Oron.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Hristo on April 04, 2009, 05:45:24 PM
To carry on the R.bulbocodium theme, flowering in the bulb frame now!
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Hristo on April 05, 2009, 06:06:51 AM
Northern Greece - Mt.Pageo - 740m - Romulea bulbocodium, colours ranging from near pure white to strongly suffused with lilac. Flowering a few days after the snow cover has melted.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: David Nicholson on April 17, 2009, 07:42:04 PM
Some Romuleas from the greenhouse:-

R. saldanhensis

[attach=1]

R. leipoldtii

[attach=2]

R. citrina, this one from Michael Campbell. Thanks Michael.

[attach=3]

Not sure about this one which also came from Michael but labelled Romulea species. Could it be R. rosea?

[attach=4]
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Lvandelft on April 17, 2009, 09:30:50 PM
Super collection David! And beautiful pictured.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Hristo on April 17, 2009, 10:27:55 PM
David, the R.citrina is a stunner! If you ever have spares and want to swap for a kidney or first born, please let me know!
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: David Nicholson on April 18, 2009, 10:01:12 AM
Chris, I'll see what's there at re-potting time and let you know. Can I have the kidney with steak under a pastry crust ;D


I know it's not a good pic but any views on the Romulea rosea (or not) folks.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Paul T on April 18, 2009, 12:35:04 PM
David,

It does rather look like it.  What are the proportions of the flower?  We have R. rosea ssp australis that is a weed hereabouts.  The Cockatoos apparently love it.  I have some the has appeared on my nature strip, but I let it live there as it does no harm and the flowers are cool, although quite diminutive.  Romuleas is something that I do grow very few of, although I just adore the pics I have seen of one like sabulosa etc.  See, there ARE some things I don't collect, contrary to popular belief!!  ;D ;D

Great pics all. 8)
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: David Nicholson on April 19, 2009, 05:14:16 PM
Will try to measure it tomorrow Paul. In the meantime I'll PM Michael Campbell and ask him if he had Romulea rosea.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Hristo on April 19, 2009, 05:25:23 PM
Hi David, you can have the kidney however you would like it! They say every man has his price....... :D :D
Flowering in the open garden today one of many time sepaarated purchases of R.bulbocodium, no protection during winter.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: David Nicholson on April 20, 2009, 07:21:50 PM
Will try to measure it tomorrow Paul. In the meantime I'll PM Michael Campbell and ask him if he had Romulea rosea.

Paul, Michael Campbell had a look at the pic I posted and is 99% certain it is Romulea rosea. I measured the flower today and it is approx. 3cm across from petal tip to petal tip.

Whilst I am here I have another Romulea species just opened today which also came from Michael labelled as 'Romulea species' that, to my eye, looks very similar to the R. bulbocodium Chris posted above. What do others think?

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: ashley on April 20, 2009, 08:04:17 PM
Whilst I am here I have another Romulea species just opened today which also came from Michael labelled as 'Romulea species' that, to my eye, looks very similar to the R. bulbocodium Chris posted above. What do others think?

I'd agree David, but maybe closer to the var clusiana at top of the page? 
Some lovely things you've shown us; thanks.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: David Nicholson on April 20, 2009, 08:23:31 PM
I agree Ashley it does look like your R. bulbocodium var. clusiana, thanks very much.
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Paul T on April 21, 2009, 10:03:24 AM
David,

The flower size sounds about right for R. rosea from memory.  I did grow it at one point and it was very pretty when in flower.  The ssp australis is smaller, and altogether weedier looking.  ;D
Title: Re: Romulea species
Post by: Ezeiza on April 21, 2009, 05:45:21 PM
Hi Ashley:

              If the stigma protrudes well beyond the anthers, it is R. bulbocodium var. clusiana. MOST important is to take a note of the bract and bracteole: if they are papyraceous, hyaline, dotted, green, etc.


Regards
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