Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => Flowers and Foliage Now => Topic started by: ian mcenery on December 02, 2008, 05:24:38 PM
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Although not much flowering here are a couple of plants braving the winter cold
The gentian is a piece I broke off the master plant in the summer and the stupid thing is flowering even in this sub zero weather. Just goes to show how tough these alpines are. I have also posted a piccy of the plant when flowering in the spring
Also a large plant of Mahonia Charity which is doing OK. Sometimes I don't even notice it but when I do it is a nice suprise at this time of the year
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Thanks for that Ian, you have inadvertently given me the cultivar name for my Mahonia (well I think you have) My Mahonia pre-dates us in this garden and we have been here 21 years. It certainly seems to have the 'leggy' growth form that Ian's tree displays. Will try to get a pic tomorrow, it's covered in blossom, and has been since early September and in some years has started to flower in July. I usually have pre-lunch trip down the garden on Christmas Day and almost every year the Mahonia has bumblebees feasting on the blossom.
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Ian - Charity is just opening in southern Nova Scotia. It's amazing how much frost it can take, though little there to date this year.
johnw
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David Charity is a hybrid between japonica and lomarifolia with the improved foliage from the latter. There are other hybrids from this cross but I think Charity got the nod.
John it is a toughie though one of its parents Lomarifolia is not. In fact the way to propagate is from November cuttings. This plant was one taken about 30 years ago since then I have had to prune it quite brutally so that I can walk past it is now about 12 ft high
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Gorgeous day today, sun out, blue sky but coldish. Managed to get a few pics of my Mahonia. Like Ian's it tops 12 feet (3.65 meters) on quite leggy growth. It is in a very damp and dank part of the garden, never gets fed and because it is not easy to get at never gets pruned either. Having said that it comes into flower, sometimes as early as July, but always by September, and the bumblebees love it as do the blackbirds when it is in fruit.
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John it is a toughie though one of its parents Lomarifolia is not. In fact the way to propagate is from November cuttings.
Ian - I would say it is one of the most tender plants in our mild south that lives and flowers. It grows very slowly in a very sheltered open woodland. It never fails to set flower buds and the opened top partially opened flowers have taken some very cold temperatures. That is a great surprise as G.S. Thomas says a sibling 'Underway' with more erect flowers can take more frost.
We never quite know what to make of the term "frost" as used in the UK. Does GST mean extreme cold or frost as in "frost on the roof" as we use the word?
johnw
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John
Cold is not always or even rarely the real culprit here. I think that the frosts in most winters are not too severe- can't remember when we last did -10 even. However prolonged periods of cold, dank and wet weather interspersed by occasional hard frosts over a period of 4 or more months is often too much for some plants. With a little protection from rain it is amazing what can be grown. For example providing I cover them up with a pane of glasss I can grow Pleione outside but if I open these to the wet weather they become mush
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Does GST mean extreme cold or frost as in "frost on the roof" as we use the word?
johnw
???Here GST means goods and services tax (VAT UK). Oh, now I see what you mean. :)
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Does GST mean extreme cold or frost as in "frost on the roof" as we use the word?
johnw
???Here GST means goods and services tax (VAT UK). Oh, now I see what you mean. :)
It does here as well but was implemented after we started calling him GST. His book is known as the Bible. We have never implied he was VAT.
Our squirming prime minister will appear on TV tonight to try to stave off a coup by the new coalition. Let the big head roll. (not being political, of course)
johnw
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The sun came out today so I got a chance to take a few pics
Narcissus romieuxii X Comoro 1
Narcissus Zaianicus x Cantabricus 2
Narcissus romieuxii hyb 3
Narcissus romieuxii hyb 4
Narcissus romieuxii Hyb 5
Narcissus romieuxii Hyb 6
For those of you who got some of my hyb Lewisias
this is what they should look like first week in December
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Michael,
Fantastic pictures. And oh those Lewisias!! :o Beautiful.
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Great Narcissus Michael ! Quite some variation there.... and the Lewisias look smashing ! (The ones that you kindly sent me are doing quite well, but outside, so no fat buds at the moment)
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the petrocosmea are in flower now although this cold weather has made the foliage very tatty.This is P. grandiflora
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There is a huge Mahonia surrounded by Cotoneaster horizonatalis growing in a bed outside a small shopping centre in Antrim. The potential was fantastic but last week they were hard pruned by the Housing Executive
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Still a bit of colour in the garden today:-
Helleborus niger- bought for 50p at a garden centre sale late last Spring
Penstemon- don't have the name but grown from cuttings from a neighbour's garden. I have three different plants and all throw up flowering spikes well into January.
Salvia- unknown, another garden centre sale purchase early last Summer and hasn't stopped flowering since I planted it out.
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David
Penstemons and salvias in December ??? Ah the balmy south west. ;D
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Ian,
And WAY south too.... both are flowering here at the moment! ;D ;)
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Who's barmy? ;D Fair bit of frost over the past few days but gone from the cars and the greenhouse roof by 0930 latest. Greenhouse thermometer showed minimum temperature just above 0C yesterday morning and it didn't get much above 4C today but still they flower.
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A very nice salvia David. Reminds me of Salvia....? You know the one.....? Yes you do. I'll think of it soon.
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It's not Salvia "Indigo Spires" is it?
(you have no idea how many times I have to correct writing saliva in these forums. :-[ ::))
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You're just drooling over these lovely plants Paul! ;D
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Anthony,
You just had to spit that out, didn't you!! ::)
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Daphne x mantensiana 'Manten'
(note the recognised problem of retained dead flowers with this hybrid.)
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A bit of frosty weather here, of course all the ferns look beautiful, but some of the alpines too. The first snowdrops other than the true autumn flowerers are out now - Farringdon Double. I apologise for its surroundings, it is caged to keep cats off the holding bed.
clematis chrysocoma-small.jpg
frost on potentilla-small.jpg
frost asplenium-small.jpg
galanthus farringdon dbl-small.jpg
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A beautiful snowdrop Anne and I swear I won't comment on another one right through the northern winter/spring. I'm pretending there's no such thing.
Your frosty pics are truly lovely. A shame it's so ephemeral but I suppose you wouldn't want it to be perma
(nent)frost :)
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Anne,
Is that a little ground-cover type Clematis? it looks like it could be quite small, but I haven't come across the name before?
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That's a nice snowdrop for this time of year Anne. We have had nothing but torrential rain and high winds since yesterday morning.
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It's a little shrubby clematis that came from the ACE collection. I planted it on the rock garden because it was described as 'up to 30cm' or some such. It only reaches that height but spreads to about 1m across. I cut it back hard in spring. It has nice thick-textured velvety leaves and C. montana type flowers through the summer. Never set seed - I think it must need a partner.
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Anne,
Very cool Clematis. Will try to file it away in my mind to pop back when I see it listed somewhere. It sometimes works. ::)
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Daphnes in flower for Christmas:
Daphne bholua'Darjeeling'
Daphne laureola
Daphne'Hinton'
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the rest
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Wow, Giles! How delicious must your garden smell right now? Yummy!! 8)
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Very 'Christmas-y'
Daubenya marginata ( edit : name added later M)
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Giles,
Wow!! :o What Massonia is that? I don't think I've ever seen one in that colour before. Oooooooh, must try to track one down! :D
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Daubenya marginata
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Giles,
Ah, a Daubenya? They certainly do look close to Massonia don't they? I think I'll have to keep an eye out for seed of that one.... has been a few years since I have ordered from Silverhill, but might have to have a look through their catalogue again one of these days. ;D
Thanks for the ID. Spectacular. 8)
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Lovely selection of Daphnes there Giles, that Daubenya a bit nice too!
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In the garden now
Diosma ericoides ‘Pink Fountain’
Grevillea ‘Fireworks’ (G. ‘Pink Pixie’ x alpina), showing some frost damage
Hamamelis mollis
H. ‘Jelena’
Genista ‘Porlock’ - with a peppery fragrance especially welcome now, but flowers here year round
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Ashley,
Nice to see that G. 'Fireworks' is over there too. I've recently bought it for my garden here, although as with so many things I buy, "heaven knows where I'll plant it". ::) Never stops me buying things though. ;) Due to their intolerance of Phosphorus I do tend to keep many of the Proteaceae family in large pots where I can keep their root system separate from the other plants in my garden. They rather like the extra drainage as well.
Thanks for the pics. 8)
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Paul,
Having brought 'Fireworks' from Qld a couple of years ago I'm cautiously testing its hardiness. Experience this autumn shows that its buds are very sensitive to rapid thaw when hit by morning sun after frost, so next year I'll move the pot under cover for the last few weeks before flowering. By contrast, other grevilleas like 'Canberra Gem' are much tougher under our conditions. In Macroom, the small town just west of here, CG is even used as an attractive hedge that flowers profusely from late winter onwards.
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Nice to see some of my Canberra brethren over there, even if only of the plant variety!
I have no idea what the winters here will do to my 'Fireworks', but I guess I will find out by this time next year. Thanks for the heads up re frost damage.... I'll keep it in mind for placement of it's pot. 8)
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Due to their intolerance of Phosphorus I do tend to keep many of the Proteaceae family in large pots where I can keep their root system separate from the other plants in my garden. They rather like the extra drainage as well.
Paul,
I would be glad if you'll explain this.
Why do you keep those plants in pots? Does your soil contain too much phosphorus or do you use a different fertilizer (which?) for the pot-grown species?
What kind of symptoms do plants show when they received phosphorus in excess?
Gerd
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Gerd,
The Proteaceae family have roots that are designed to extract the maximum phosphorus (I'll refer to it now as P, as in NPK) from extremely poor soils (South Africa and Australia have some of the oldest and most P depleted soils on the planet). As such, the addition of P rich fertilisers is deadly to most of the them. By putting them into pots I can give them the excellent drainage they require, while also cutting them off from the plants in the rest of my garden that I may apply traditional fertilisers which contain P. If they were planted amongst my normal garden plants then I would have to be careful not to fertilise those garden plants with any fertilisers that contained P, as I could easily kill the natives amongst them. Pots allow me to "plant" these natives amongst my other garden. Other natives that aren't Proteaceae don't have this problem and I can plant them in the garden without concern, it is just the things like Proteas (South African), Telopeas, Grevilleas, Banksias etc that are sensitive to it. I also have a small area of my garden where I have planted a couple of the natives together in the ground, and I know to keep the other fertilisers away from them.
Has that explanation helped, or have I just muddied it up even more?
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To minimize P for these plants I use subsoil mixed with plenty of sharp sand & grit. Some callistemon, melaleucas and grevilleas seem to tolerate our P-rich soils quite well, but others (e.g. banksias) become chlorosed and gradually die when planted in the open garden. Interesting that S American Embothrium coccineum thrives here.
Paul, do you know why Australian Proteaceae are P-intolerant but other families such as Myrtaceae are not (or less so)?
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Ashley,
I don't know for sure why, but I would be assuming that they have "P intensive" flowers, i.e they actually require more P to produce their flowers than the others do. For that reason they have engineered roots that strip every bit of P out of the soils they are in. I can only assume that the other families (such as the Myrtaceae you mention) do not require as much P for their flower production so they have never had the need to develp roots that extract higher levels of P from poor soils. I tend to side with caution when i comes to Grevilleas. Some do indeed seem to be less intolerant in a garden situation, but I prefer to take no chances. ;)
Gerd,
I realised that I forgot to answer your question about which fertilisers I use for my potted natives.... I just use a commercial low P Aussie native fertiliser. I can check for the NPK ratios if you're interested?
I'm trying to work out whether we should put a copy of this discussion within the "Australian Native Plants in our gardens" topic, as it could be useful to those who look at that topic for instructions on growing them?
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Paul, Gerd, Ashley et al, I will copy the last few posts about the phosphorus tolerance etc to the other thread, as suggested by Paul. Please continue the discussion there . Thanks!
This is the page : http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2363.new#new
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Thanks Maggi. I didn't want to interrupt it, but I thought it would probably be helpful to have it in the topic with the Aussie natives, as I am sure there are others who would wonder why the whole P thing. ;D
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Still some colour in the garden as 2008 comes to a weary close in spite of the current cold spell.
Campanula portenschlagiana (I think!) of which I have numerous clumps around the garden and there always seems to be at least one of the clumps in flower whatever the time of year.
An unknown Hebe which flowers in Autumn through to late Spring.
Another of my seedling Penstemon, this one a pinky white with yet more flowering spikes to come.
A close up of the flower of Viburnam x bodnantense 'Dawn' which again seems to start flowering in early Autumn, then has a couple of weeks off, before flowering again and continues until mid Spring.
A pot of garden centre bought Cyclamen which has been in flower now since early October.
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Thanks to all for showing the different climatical conditions from frosty scotland to not so cold devon!Still a bit further south I took some photos in my garden of:
Iris planifolia - widespread in the mediterranean, but not occuring on the Balearic Islands
Canarina canariensis & Lavandula pinnatifida, two canarian endemics
Narcissus x italicus (?)
Ruscus aculeatus (with some fine neighbours 8) ;))
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Bet you were warmer than I was today Hans. My temperature got to 7C and still with a cold wind from the East making it feel much colder. Lovely Iris by the way.
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Thanks David, yes it was a bit warmer (about 10ºC) - it was the first beautiful day and there is still snow on the mountains...
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I love that Canarina canariensis Hans, but would have to grow it in heat which we don't have. I go and admire it in a local nursery now and again :-\