Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => General Forum => Topic started by: ichristie on November 27, 2008, 10:27:53 PM
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Hi to all, I have been helping the Master Cyril to create a new crevice garden at his home in Fife, a few details about construction then the first set of pictures. Cyril's garden at the back of his house is on quite a slope from top to bottom East to West, Cyril first removed some established shrubs and trees to have a clear space. I made contact with a local quarry about 20 miles away which I use for other projects this was to be our source of stone. Cyril organised for day one; 2 tons of sharp grit sand and one and a half tons of gravel, I wheelbarrowed the gravel onto the top of the garden soil to ensure good drainage then the sand was put on top which made a nice large mound. Day 2; two and a half tons of rock were delivered to be wheeled in and placed on edge creating the beginnings of the crevices. I was very pleased that near the end Cyril's young strong son came to help and we finished the first load of stone. I will send part two in the next few days plus keep an update of progress. cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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Fantastic Ian I can feel a project coming on 8)
Are you using just sharp sand between the stones?
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And how do you apply it? Just shovel it over and let it filter through, maybe with the help of the hose?
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A quick note before I must go and work, I forgot to say that before we started building I added some bags of John Innes sterilised soil and mixed this up with the sand. As we started building the crevices we filled them part way up with the mix as we went along this made then very solid and easy to walk over if needed, we were lucky with the stone which I had organised as some pieces were thicker and heavy so we tried to use these at the edges, we were also able to split some stones along the length which gave a new face but the stone only has mud on then so a good shower of rain will clean them up. Will add more pictures tonight, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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Most interesting Ian ! :o
Very much looking forward to see how things develop further...
By the way.. are you ever in Belgium or thereabouts ??? ;D ;D
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Very informative. So good to see the story starting from the beginning.
I mean to see the basic (hard labour) work, which is mostly forgotten to show, but the most important,
when considering such a project.
so a good shower of rain will clean them up
One question, why is the big plane aside. It would keep it dry when raining.
But I presume it will be against cats etc. overnight. :-\ ::);D
Looking forward to see the next pictures.
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When I read about 2.5 tons of stone I was amazed at your strength but then I counted and realized that they are maybe 10 kgs each.
It is still hard work. Are these stones sandstone?
I assume we will all in the future refer to the early 21st century as the age of vertical crevices. ;D
Personally i try to use large rocks on the flat because I want to be able to sit or kneel on them. I assume a crevice garden cannot be too wide.
I am mostly in woodlanders so the following pics show a "woodland rock garden". I rarely post overview pics since they are always full of weeds and paraphernalia :(
The first pic is about two years since completion (I mean since the stones were laid; a garden will never be finished.)
It is early. only Hellebores, Galanthus, Leucojum Hepatica and Daphne.
The second shows a part under construction.
The third pic shows a mistake. These stones are too far apart. I cannot reach well in the middle. It will be a major undertaking to move the left since today so many plants are in the way.
My gesneriads are hidden in the upper left corner of the first pic. The Haberlea and the Ramonda seem happy even if the latter does not flower as well as the one I saw in Catalonia.
Look forward to the follow up
Göte
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Fascinating to see these projects......thanks!
I am slightly surprised to see that in the large scale of Cyril's new garden, there is no path/east access to the middle of the bed.... won't it be hard to reach the middle for weeding etc, over only the upright stones? My knees are hurting already, just thinking about it :-\
Göte's woodlandy style bed is obviously very successful, too, even after only a couple of years.....so many on my favourite plants would love that situation.
By the way, HAPPY BIRTHDAY , Göte ......I hope you are not moving stones of any size in the garden today.... only large pieces of birthday cake!
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That crevice bed looks spectacular.
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Well, we really have started something here such great pictures form everybody, firstly my wheelbarrow has no licence to travel overseas sorry Luc. We covered over the area at night as we wanted the sharp sand to stay dry as possible as it is easier to get the dry sand in between the crevices. At the end of my first day arrive home and Cyril phoned up we need to make the bed BIGGER so he organised another two and a half tons of sand and I organised two and a half tons of stone. We worked away all day and managed to get all this wheelbarrowed up into the garden ( I am now 6inches shorter) and the wheelbarrow is caput. We sprread some sand over the first part and then built more crevices. The sharp sand is very good a dark red brick colour with lots of small chippings amongst it. Cyril has already ordered lots of seed which he is going to sow amongst the sand in the crevices. I did say to Cyril that he would need a huge amount of plants says he that is not a problem the crevices will be full in spring such a fantastic grower I am looking forward to spring. I add the next set of pictures, more once we have a rest, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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Tremendous work, Ian.
Does Cyril pay well? A Forrest medal or two? ??? You certainly deserve a medal after the work you've put in. I'm looking forward to seeing this Garden develop.
cheers
fermi
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So now Ian - a long soak in a bath, I think.
Gote, your third photograph is symptomatic of the truly obsessive - labels and labels and labels. Do you collect plants by any chance?
Paddy
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Hi again, I did suggest to Cyril about a path somewhere through the garden but we got carried away with the stone building, we did try walking over the stones and found it very easy to get to anywhere. I can assure you that once Cyril gets started the weeds will have no room to grow. I have just had a message from Cyril that his son Andrew has finished putting all the sand over the crevice garden so some more pictures will follow. I forgot to say all the pictures were taken by Cyril a Nikon D90 with V.R lens. I like this very much hope santa is listening, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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Perhaps you can persuade Cyril to venture into his greenhouses with said new camera Ian? ;)
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Thank you again Maggie!! :)
No I do not move any stones today but I need to move another 15 to 25 in in order to complete my plans. I lift them out with the excavator using ropes, drive them some 750 m on a cart after a Stiga lawnmover that no longer has any cutter and dump them as close as I can. When I have enough I will drive the excavator there and use it when positioning. The bigest stone I moved was something like half a ton but I will not repeat that performance. 200-300 kg is quite enough. I am lucky since the local stone has a cleft so it gets at least some flat surfaces. It also has an unpretentious beauty that goes well in the shady surrounding.
I use to say that I collect plants as other people collect postage stamps. I believe we all know that many plants are impossible to identify most of the year. Many are not even above ground. To remember where I put several hundreds different species and strain is impossible in my age Often I cannot even find the label. Thus the labels. My labels are dark brown on the backside and olive green on the front. I think that this is a reasonable compromise between redability and unobtrusiveness.
Göte
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Some day...
....some day....
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I notice that in all the crevice garden pictures, it is Ian of the Christie kind that is doing all the work. Where is Cyril? Is the Secret Squirrel SO secret that he remains behind a shed while all the activity takes place? :-X
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Dear All, firstly Gote you are a star even I could not move the half ton stones, the garden looks superb very different to Cyrils and I look forward to seeing pictures of the plants in flower. What a great way to celebrate a birthday long may you continue. Cyril may well have been hiding but I did not have my camera silly fool but Cyril was on his hands and knees building the crevices he also helped to load up the wheel barrows with the sand. I will get some pictures of him when next I am over. I will also get some pictures from his glasshouse and the vast array of plants he has everywhere,cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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Well, we really have started something here such great pictures form everybody, firstly my wheelbarrow has no licence to travel overseas sorry Luc.
mmmm I'm never lucky... ;D ;D
Wonderful job Ian and Cyril - this will undoubtedly look marvelous !
I'll be watching this space for any further developments.
Thanks for showing us Ian i
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I notice that in all the crevice garden pictures, it is Ian of the Christie kind that is doing all the work. Where is Cyril? Is the Secret Squirrel SO secret that he remains behind a shed while all the activity takes place? :-X
Someone has to take the pix, Lesley!!
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Great work Ian. I'm very envious of the new rockery/crevice feature.
Why doesnt Cyril show his plants or garden on the forum? I see he joined way back 23rd November 2006.
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Hi Mark, everyone, Cyril is very dedicated to his work in the hospital he has a very high powered job and works long hours. He really is a very special person and every time i phone him whatever the time he is in his garden or glasshouse. I am sure that in time he will post pictures himself and i hope you have all read the article he wrote which Maggie ( bless her) put on this forum. cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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Hi Ian
Good to see the wonderful work you and Cyril have done creating his new crevice bed. Interesting to see the difference between your style and Carole & Ian's - our wee crevice bed is much more your style. Perhaps now that David is a gentleman of leisure ;D (well once the kitchen and our bedroom have been sorted :o) we will have time to tackle a bigger bed - I've even worked out where we could build it :) And by using the stone dyke he built there would be a slope - albeit not a steep one!
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Such is the life of the retired. Come on David get on with it! ;D
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Thank you again Maggie!! :)
.................. drive them some 750 m on a cart Göte ....................
Working on the average 15 m frontage for the houses in my street, that would take me to a house 50 doors away. :-[
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Hi Everyone, here are some more pictures from Cyril, he and his son Andrew have filled up all the crevices with sand this will be left to settle down over the winter and I am sure that the rain will wash it in, it looks very full at the moment any way we made the best use of the stone we could find it was quite expensive at Ł 50odd pounds a ton plus delivery so the whole thing cost a fair bit, the sand was a cost also. I will ask Cyril to keep taking pictures but it will probably be early spring before anything happens, watch this space, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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I notice that in all the crevice garden pictures, it is Ian of the Christie kind that is doing all the work. Where is Cyril? Is the Secret Squirrel SO secret that he remains behind a shed while all the activity takes place? :-X
Someone has to take the pix, Lesley!!
Oh.
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Hi again, this is the last set of pictures for now, just a finishing touch which Cyril has done all by himself. When I visited the quarry they had huge mounds of shale just the slate broken up really it was mixed sizes from about hand size down to almost corn flakes. I asked if we could buy a bag and one half ton bag was delivered to Cyril this is clean slate and shows the natural colour of the stone Cyril has made a pathway all around the crecice garden and I think it looks great. I imagine we might get some more of this later, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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it looks very full at the moment any way we made the best use of the stone we could find it was quite expensive at Ł 50odd pounds a ton plus delivery so the whole thing cost a fair bit,
The overall effect really looks great Ian :D - if ever we'd want to build something similar though, it would cost a small fortune. The price for the rock alone would be something between 300 and 400 pound a ton plus delivery.... :'(
So if you'd obtain an international license for your wheelbarrow, please do not wheel it down here empty... ;D
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It would be interesting to see this feature developing. We have seen the construction and it would be nice to see the planting, initial planting and then as the planting developed.
Paddy
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Such is the life of the retired. Come on David get on with it! ;D
You talking to yourself David? ;D
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Such is the life of the retired. Come on David get on with it!
You talking to yourself David?
...it's the first sign - take it from one who knows ;D
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Thank you for the nice words Ian, I do not move the stones, the excavator does and it has some muscle. I have recommended before that anyone who intends to move sizable stones around should contemplate renting a small excavator. They are perfect cranes.
What I do is that I take two lengths of rope abut 4m long, tie them in the middle with a sheet bend to a cross. Lay out the cross near the stone, roll the stone onto the cross with the excavator (This is the tricky part) I then try to distribute the ends evenly and cow hitch them to the tines. That knot holds very well when loaded but does not jam. If the stone does not hang the way I want, I put it down and rearrange the ropes.
If the stone needs rotating around the vertical axis, this can be done by a helper using a rope or a light bar FROM A DISTANCE. When the stone is in place, it is easy to pull the rope out if the soil is reasonable and it is easy to adjust the stone by pushing with the scoop.
I am more interested in plants than in garden design so I have few pictures showing it in grown up state. Besides overview pictures tend to show green surfaces with small coloured dots. I will try to find something but in the meantime I want to show you the Pteridiophyllum I got from you in 2005. It grows on a kind of ledge in the upper left of my first picture.
Göte
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Mine is flowering again now but never looks that good
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Gote now that is a well grown plant 8)
Ian
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Crumbs, that's a new one to me. Must look it out. :)
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Crumbs, that's a new one to me. Must look it out. :)
see old forum....
Posted on Thursday, May 13, 2004 - 9:12 pm: http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/2305.html
http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/30636.html
and also here... where a plea was made to find it ; ::) 8)
http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/147/13878.html
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Obviously I got my Pteridophyllum from Ian (in 2005). He sent me two of different clones. Both are well, look healthy and increase a little every year but one flowered from year one and the other has refused. Obviously the clone is important and Ian has the right one. Wether he has them in sufficient number is not something I know. :D
I grow them as all my woodlanders in sandy humusy soil with relatively low pH and some bonemeal. They grow under a canopy of Corylus avellana and the spot where i have the flowering Pteridiophyllum is not pitch dark but there is never any sun. The other one gets a couple of hours of sun but this should not be the reason.
They are indeed very charming and the foliage is also attractive practically all the year.
I enclose a closeup and hope that more will grow them.
Göte
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green with envy.
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Bought one for Clare many years ago (at great cost!) after she admired a super plant from Cecilia Coller.
After a couple of years it was plain the plant simply didn't fancy our garden and so another had to be acquired (at great cost again!)
Clare kindly donated the original 'miffer' to me.
Two years on her new plant was dead. The 'miffer' had miraculously found some vigour and flourishes still. It must be at least eight years now.
I am sure there is a moral there somewhere - but I can't see it. ::)
This year we saw it in the Botanic Gardens in Gothenburg, so when I pluck up the courage to split the main plant it will get another chance to 'miff' - this time in the garden. ;D
John
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Mine has never done very well. The leaves look sick and the flower stem never has very many flowers
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Hi all, I have had my Pteridophyllum for around 20 years splitting it occasionally, we do this very soon after flowering with great care. anyway the name means fern-like, which it is, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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I did not realise it would be difficult. I just planted it with other woodlanders. I tried to explain what I did above.
A neighbour that grows fairly well is Helleborus Thibetanus. However, again not all clones do well. A darker one planted 40 cm away slowly succumbed.
This plant is visible in my first posting. The fern is Polystichium munitum I believe.
Göte
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Something that has done well from the beginning as a 8cm seedling from Gothenburg botanical garden is Ranzania japonica. I grow that also in my "woodland rock garden." it is situated in the middle of picture one.
The Sanguinaria is rather close to the Pteridophyllum and the last picture is also close. It is Epimedium acuminatum (introduced by Roy Lancaster) a bi-colour trillium erectum or thereabouts a whit sessile and various things that are only green at the moment.
Göte
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Gote do you grow your Sanguinarias in full sun?
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Super plants and very well displayed, Göte. Did you ever exprience any problems with your Epimedium acuminatum? I lost my plant in a very wet winter, but will try it again. I find the mottled spring leaves of this species are some of the best in the genus.
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No Mark,
They grow in the same place as the others do under the hazels. That position has practically no sun as soon as the leaves are out on the hazels.
Göte
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No Stĺle,
none whatsoever. You probably do not remember but it used to sit on the slope of nearly 45°. I have now moved it to be more on the flat but still on my sandy soil. I wanted it to be closer to a yellow one of similar shape. (I have forgotten the name at the moment). It survived there the last winter with zero damage. I think I grow most of my things in a more shaded situation than you do. Could that be a cause?
Göte
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Göte
Yes, I agree that too much light - and particularly in late winter/early spring - could well be a major cause to its demise. I envy you your shaded wood lot for growing plants, wich I liked a lot! Must seek a better place for my next try on this plant.
If I may digress into another subject; I really should tell the forum members that Nymphaea Colossea holds up to your praise in a earlier thread. My plant bloomed continually from mid june til end september. Never many flowers at one time, but always at least one.
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If I may brag?!
He got it from me ;D ;D ;D
Göte
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Friends, I have been shown this delightful correspondence about this thread and have been asked to post it here.... I think it will please you all to read it!
Rudi Weiss wrote to the King of Crevice gardens, Zdenek Zvolánek, to tell him of this enterprise to build Cyril's crevice garden, which he thought would interest ZZ.....he got this reply from ZZ, which, you will see, ZZ suggests be posted here........ 8)
I will begin with Rudi's note to me......
Hello, dear Maggi, I have sent this topic to ZZ, his reply is probably
interesting for you and the other forumists:
Topic: Cyril Lafong's new crevice garden (From ruweiss)
" Dear Zdenek,this article is probably interesting for you.
I want you to check out "Cyril Lafong's new crevice garden" on Scottish
Rock Garden Club Forum.
Cheers
Rudi "
And so ZZ replies:
> > Rudi, it is very good work for the beginners (in skirts) of this art or
> > craft. It has all important changes of elevation, good returns back to
> > the ground, places for access (to see small plants in an intimate
> > distances) and not too sharp erosion of layers.It is offering many
> > lovely nooks for plants. Also the light sandy body inside will have its
> > superb effect in wet Scotland. I am sure that in the hands of the
> > plantsman Cyril it will be planted with superior alpines and will be one
> > of the best manifestation of this new growing technique. This is
> > more bold (better erected) than the finest Danish crevice gardens.
> > Congratulation and GREEN BLESS from the highest priest of this kind of
> > religion (sitting in Prague). Please, publish this Bless under your
> > name in the gallery. Zdenek.
Praise indeed! And isn't the comment about "beginners (in skirts)" funny? A fine way to describe a Scottish gardening hero!
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I love ZZs humour. He emailed me last week to say he is off to Canada soon
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Very interesting that Zdenek should describe it as a "new" form of rock gardening. Seems to me I just read an account of a description of what we know as a crevice garden from a publication that goes all the way back to 1937 or so...
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Very interesting that Zdenek should describe it as a "new" form of rock gardening. Seems to me I just read an account of a description of what we know as a crevice garden from a publication that goes all the way back to 1937 or so...
Well, shall we say a new "fashion", then ? That would be nearer the truth.... nothing really new in gardening or anything else, is there? It's one of the things that tickles me so much about reading the early Rock Garden Journals and AGS Bulletins...... all these plants we get so worked up about and desperate to have as the "latest" thing....all been grown , loved and killed a million times before!
And so the world turns........[attach=1]
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Hi to all, I thank ZZ the high priest of crevice gardens for his kind words and Cyril is over the moon, he did build quite a bit of his new creation and i found it very rewarding to work with him and share ideas. Cyril informs me that the rain has cleaned up some of the stone and the sand is now being washed down into the crevices. Everything is frozen solid here and our thoughts turn to all our friends around the world via this forum. we look forward to continuing posts from you all and wish you A Very merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, cheers Ian the Christie kind. I shall be wearing my'skirt' at New year the tartan is ancient Christie, The picture is all Scottish Rock Garden Presidents taken at RBG for our 75th birthday, the clubs 75th that is not mine. Right to left we have Harley Milne, Peter Semple (back) Ian Bainbridge Glassford Sprunt (back) Elizabeth Ivey ( wee Bette) Ian Young Sandy Leven and Me Ian the Christie kind,cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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I think Cyril's crevice bed is terrific. I'd like to see ZZ top that! ;D
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I think Cyril's crevice bed is terrific. I'd like to see ZZ top that! ;D
Love that one, Mr Darby! ;D
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Cor blimey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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It occurred to me that some readers might not be aware of some other threads in the forum which show other wonderful crevice gardens...... here is a link to start with which shows the lovely garden of Jiří Papouek.... 8)
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=500.msg12237;topicseen#msg12237
There are other threads about ZZ's constructions, and other Czech gardens with similar features.... I recommend them all to you!
a few examples: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1385.0
and from the Old ( archived) Forum: http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/4/6011.html
http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/4/3647.html
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Any chance we might see pix of how things are developping ?? 8)
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Now then, I have been in touch with cyril to find out how things are going with the crevice garden. It is getting well planted up now and here are some photos from Cyril to show us......
Androsace brachsytegia
Androsace robusta purpurea
Benthamiella patagonica
Crevice
Crevice1
Crevice watered - view from top left
Crevice watered - whole
Daphne arbuscula, Linum uninerve
Daphne gemmata
Daphne petraea
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And some more pix from Cyril.......
So far there are over 160 plants at a quick count.......
CLICK THE PIX TO ENLARGE- of course! :D
Eritrichium howardii
Front end
Gentiana stragulata
Iberis saxatilis
Polemonium pulcherrimum
View from bottom
View from side
View from top
View from top left
View from top left1
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Beautiful crevice garden, Cyril. My one 'small' reservation being that the fence to the rear of the area looks somehow out of character with the sweep of the rockwork. Only the tiniest of niggles ... I would perhaps prefer to see it without a fence at all.
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As one would expect Cyril's crevice garden looks pristine, not a weed in sight. Lovely.
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Beautiful crevice garden, Cyril. My one 'small' reservation being that the fence to the rear of the area looks somehow out of character with the sweep of the rockwork. Only the tiniest of niggles ... I would perhaps prefer to see it without a fence at all.
Isn't it coming along well?
I rather think that the fence is an original boundary fence, Cliff, between the garden and the woodland beyond. :-\
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Thanks Maggi (and Cyril of course !!!) for allowing us another glance at the crevice project !
It looks very nice indeed and there's so much space left for further gems to be planted out ! I'm sure Cyril has lots of seedlings ready and waiting to find a place in this smashing habitat. :)
Only one big problem - I can hardly see Cyril bringing this 'mini garden' to one of the shows... ??? ??? ;D
It will be very interesting to see how all develops in the coming months and years 8) 8)
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Really interesting to see how this is developing, I hope for many updates in the future ;D
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So it's a matter of keeping the neighbours at bay. :) An inspiring patch with so many perfect places for plants. Looking forward to a progression of planting and pictures as it matures. Thanks to Cyril.