Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Seedy Subjects! => Grow From Seed => Topic started by: PEAK on February 21, 2007, 08:14:10 AM

Title: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: PEAK on February 21, 2007, 08:14:10 AM
I have been offered to buy 5 seeds of the "holy grail" of Amaryllidaceae Worsleya procera the blue Hippestraum from Brazil. The price including postage is 28 USD!! It is from a reliable source (in Australia) I do have the money and I want to have it! So forum members please help me to decide what to do (don't say that I have influenced the jury)? Would you pay this much for seeds of a plant that you really wanted?
A pic if you prefer photo evidence

http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Worsleya/Worsleya-procera-BD.jpg

Cheers
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: mark smyth on February 21, 2007, 08:49:38 AM
I saw plants of it in South Africa the last time I was there. They are stunning. I would buy them
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: SueG on February 21, 2007, 08:53:27 AM
Cape Seeds and Bulbs have plants for £60 each - seed seems like a very good deal indeed - go for it!! Mind you in the picture it wasn't very blue. . .
Sue
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: Lesley Cox on February 21, 2007, 09:57:12 AM
I notice that the photo on Per-Ake's website link was taken by Bill Dijk. Bill is in Tauranga, New Zealand and it was most likely his own plant. It was offered here a while back for around $12-20NZ I think (that's about 7-11US) by Terry Hatch of Joy Plants at Pukekohe near Auckland. It can't have been too dear as I bought one myself. Lost it in heavy frosts soon after though.

I guess spending the money is a matter of how much you want the plant and if you're willing to spend that much, why not? Better than smoking or gambling it. But remember it is VERY tender.
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: Maggi Young on February 21, 2007, 12:30:55 PM
I know I have been very scathing elsewhere in this forum about folks paying large sums of money for snowdrop bulbs but, when push comes to shove, as we say here in the land of the colourful phrase, when the going gets tough, the tough go shopping! I would buy those seeds, Per-Åke, then keep my fingers crossed in hope of success. I feel that seeds always offer you some chance of success and if they germinate, grow and survive, they have demonstrated their suitability for your growing situation and that is half the battle! Good luck, we look forward to seeing your pix of the flowers in a few years time. I imagine it will take a few years to get a flower, even in the most optimistic scenario?
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: PEAK on February 21, 2007, 04:07:49 PM
Thank you all for your encouraging replies.
Lesley, you actually owned the holy grail and then left it to freeze to death :o Well you did kill the moa so why not Worsleya ;)
I am well awere of it's tenderness, I will keep it above 10C (50F) all the time.
Since I just did pay for the seeds I can only hope for milder temperatures during the mail delivery (-12C right now) and all of you should start preparing for some stunning pictures about six years from now!

Cheers
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: Maggi Young on February 21, 2007, 04:19:19 PM
Should I make a note on the forum calendar now, do you think?
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: PEAK on February 21, 2007, 08:32:48 PM
Since today is the birthday of my daughter i will probably remember this! 2013 (don't that sound far away) she will become 28 on the Worsleya flowering day! As many other years today is the coldest this far with morning temperatures down to -20C (-5F) in Stockholm.
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: Maggi Young on February 21, 2007, 11:31:12 PM
Ah, I remember being 22 ! I don't think my father celebrated by getting exotic plant seed though!
Wish your daughter many happy returns from her father's mad garden friends!
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: Lesley Cox on February 21, 2007, 11:48:18 PM
Now come off it Per-Ake! I personally DID NOT KILL OFF THE MOA!!!  It was gone long before my Scottish ancestors arrived here. There were several moa species and I think they were all MUCH too big to let loose among the snowdrops.

So far as the Worsleya is concerned, perhaps I didn't take sufficient care just BECAUSE it was not so very expensive and I didn't have a greenhouse at the time - still don't. I suppose it was the picture that got to me and gave me a moment of total stupidity. I wish you much better success than I had.
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: PEAK on February 22, 2007, 08:42:57 AM
OK, Lesley you are no longer a suspected in the moa case :)
Thanks for the wishes, I will probably need them!

Cheers
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on February 22, 2007, 02:08:00 PM
6 years minus 1 day to go Per Ake !  ;D
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: PEAK on February 22, 2007, 04:05:30 PM
I sure feel the pressure here Luc, now how will I feel when there is only 4 years to go ;)

I will deliver your greetings Maggi, in fact she also has a bit of plant interest. She is growing witches plants: Mandrake, Belladona, Datura...
This is the reason I don't argue with her, I just fulfill her wishing list!

Cheers
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: rob krejzl on February 27, 2007, 09:22:57 PM
Re Worsleya

Mine (a Kosh clone) flowered a few weeks ago for the first time. It spends most of the year outside, coming under cover during the winter. It handles sub 10C temperatures without any check (certainly down to 6-7 C overnight).

the person who gave me mine (http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/alpines_and_bulbs/104284 (ftp://http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/alpines_and_bulbs/104284)) believed that excellent drainage and a deep root run was the real issue.
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: PEAK on February 28, 2007, 07:31:29 AM
This is interesting news Rob! My seeds are also said to be fron Cosh origin, but I must admit not nowing what that mean?
The temperatures given by you are promising, then I will be able to keep them together with South African bulbs. How many years did it take you to flower it and do you water it all year round?

Cheers
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: rob krejzl on February 28, 2007, 09:44:57 AM
The Errol Cosh clone is the most widely distributed here in OZ, because it off-sets prolifically. My off-set was a couple of years old when I was given it back in '03. It would have flowered faster if I hadn't neglected it almost totally (Holy Grail or not, I think it looks ugly). Late autumn I move it onto an open patio; the light there is good and it continues to grow over the winter, watered when I remember it.

If you read the link I provided before, you'll see that Gary found that, given a deep pot and an extremely free-draining medium, the amount of water was not an issue. Gary was & is a better plantsman than I'll ever be; the only thing I could possibly add is that I suspect it can take temps lower than 4C if they are transient.
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: PEAK on March 08, 2007, 12:30:58 PM
Thanks for a lot of useful info Rob :)
Ugly or not it is a bit different from other Amaryllids! You do grow a lot of interesting bulbs there in OZ, do you know anyone growing Paramongaia? (Second plant on Holy Grail list).

Cheers
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: Maggi Young on March 08, 2007, 12:34:13 PM
Quote
Paramongaia
???
Never heard of it! I'm off to look it up!

OOH! It's a huge Peruvian daffodill flower!! Lovely!
http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Paramongaia?version=20
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: Hans J on March 08, 2007, 06:35:45 PM
Hi Peak ,

There is one nursery in England ( tomorrow plants ) who sell ( after the list )
Paramongaia .
They also sell Pamianthe ( = Nr. 3 )
I have written to the owner in January for Paramongaia -but I got never any answer until now .
Strange..... ???

Greetings
Hans
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: PEAK on March 08, 2007, 08:23:01 PM
Hi Hans,
yes a bit strange that you have not received a reply. I know that Gothenburg botanic garden have done some shopping from them, so they should be reliable.
Griffinia and Phaedranassa number 4 and 5?

Cheers
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: Hans J on March 08, 2007, 08:37:01 PM
Hi Peak ,

It is interesting with Paramongaia :
There exist a wintergrowing and summergrowing form -I would be only interestet for this summergrowing form.
I have heard this is normal for this nursery to answer not or late - but I like such practical not .
With the next numbers is it difficould :
There are a lot in the same : Eucrosia, Eucharis ,Eustephia,Griffinia, Eithea,Stenomesson,Urceolina,Phaedranassa  ....
Is it possibly to buy anything from Gothenburg ?

Before 2 weeks I had flowers on my Eithea -what a beauty !

Greetings
Hans
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: Lesley Cox on March 08, 2007, 08:41:33 PM
I think Paramongaia was one of the suggestions for Dave Toole's mystery bulb a while back. We never did solve that one did we?
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: PEAK on March 08, 2007, 08:51:50 PM
Very intersting Hans, I know that there are some South African bulbs that have both summer and winter growing clones (Boophone), but this is new to me for South America! You are right there are a lot of goodies to choose from :)
And then we have the more hardy Lycoris and Ungernia, the last one impossible to get hold of :(
I had only known Eithea as a name, now I have seen pictures at the net, you are right it must be a beauty :D
I think it is hard to buy from Gothenburg, I know they have plant sales twice yearly, but there are probably no rare bulbs offered.

Cheers
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: Hans J on March 08, 2007, 09:00:51 PM
Peak ,

Please look here :
http://www.bulbsociety.org/About_Bulbs/LIVING_JEWELS/HIPPBLUMENAVIA.htmL
or
http://www.bulbsociety.org/GALLERY_OF_THE_WORLDS_BULBS/GRAPHICS/Griffiniopsis/Griffiniopsis_blumenavium/Griffiniopsis_blumenavium.html
The problem is this plants are listet under different names: Hippeastrum ,Griffinia, Griffinopsis ,Eithea .
Yes -Ungernia is really a seroius problem
Nice are also Traubia ,Rhodophiala, Phycella ,Hippeastrum.....
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: PEAK on March 08, 2007, 09:08:31 PM
I can't find any posting about Daves bulb, where is it?

As a matter of fact I think you look very much alike one of my girlfriends from the seventies Lesley. She later became covergirl of Vogue magazine and married a famous American movie star.
And now for these very rare NZ seeds we spoke about.....
 :D

Cheers
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: Hans J on March 08, 2007, 09:11:43 PM
I think Paramongaia was one of the suggestions for Dave Toole's mystery bulb a while back. We never did solve that one did we?

Hi Lesley ,

I have asked in this time a friend who grow Paramongaia if this could be -he told me this must be a other plant .

Hans
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: PEAK on March 08, 2007, 09:14:20 PM
Thans for the links Hans, indeed a very beautiful plant :D
We also have Rauhia, I have tried to sow it several times with seeds from this source in Germany
http://www.koehres-kaktus.de/index1.htm
never a single one have germinated :(

Cheers
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: Hans J on March 08, 2007, 09:34:55 PM
Hi Peak

I know Koehres since 30 years ( I collect since a long time Cacti )- I have also tried to order from him this seeds of Rauhia - you can forget it - they are old and many are broken - nothing comes up too .
It exist a seedseller in Peru who also have this seeds -I think he is the source of Koehres .
Prof. Werner Rauh was the former leader of the B.G. Heidelberg - and I have heard erlier lections from him about Cacti - very interesting .

Hans
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: Lesley Cox on March 08, 2007, 11:00:18 PM
Per-Ake, you've made my day. Any rare seeds you want, just say, they're yours! Don't know that I'd want the famous American movie star. Depends which one.
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: Jim McKenney on August 18, 2008, 02:29:34 AM
I have been offered to buy 5 seeds of the "holy grail" of Amaryllidaceae Worsleya procera the blue Hippestraum from Brazil.

Per-Åke, a year and a half have passed since you made that post. How did it turn out?

I acquired seeds of Worsleya in the autumn of 2007; my seedlings now have bulbs about the size of a hazelnut.

I noticed that some concern was expressed in subsequent postings on this topic about the cold tolerance of Worsleya. I've read that overnight frosts are not unknown in the plant's native habitat.

My seeds were bought for US$2-3 each; they gave very good results.
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: Anthony Darby on August 19, 2008, 03:43:29 PM
My seeds were bought for US$2-3 each; they gave very good results.
Now that's more my kind of price. Looks very desirable!
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: Folypeelarks on August 24, 2008, 11:05:47 AM
I have not enough time to read the whole topic but if You find a good offer - buy the seeds!The Worsleya is unique plant!In the beginning of this year I bought two seeds from ebay..The offer is not still active.It's the largest member of Amaryllidaceae and has spectacular blooms!
The species is not so difficult for growing.I sowed the seeds in pumice on February 2nd and they germinated on February 28th.

The plant is hardier than I thought.
The two plants are still under nylon in an environment with high moisture.I water them every day.I pass one watering between two weeks.I fertilize sometimes because of the poorness of the pumice with low concentration of different fertilizers.

If someone have enough patience I'll pollinate the two flowers when They reach blooming age.I hope They'll produce seeds.But It will happen after many years because the plants are very young...

Good luck!

P.S. Now I search for plants such as Paramongaia, Griffinia, Gethyllis and other Amaryllidaceae members...
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: Paul T on August 24, 2008, 12:25:35 PM
And with Worsleya always remember... drainage, drainage, drainage!!  If you know someone with a big enough plant you can get an offset, but the offsets apparently need to be very large before they will have roots, so if anyone is trying to take an offset off, make sure you check there are roots under there first before severing it.  :o  I have a small plant which was given to me earlier this year.  It was an offset from an established clump (I nearly died when the friend of mine mentioned that he had 6 flowering sized plants, most with offsets!).  A VERY nice friend this gentleman is!!  For his efforts I gave him one of my Amorphophallus titanum, which once it's leaf expanded in his greenhouse was about 5 foot wide and close to 5 foot tall.  Well and truly worth it to me as I SO want to flower a Worsleya.  Will take a few years yet, but one can but hope!  ;D  Good luck!!
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: Folypeelarks on August 24, 2008, 12:50:51 PM
And with Worsleya always remember... drainage, drainage, drainage!! 

Yes, It's very important!If small quantity of unwanted water stays in the pot the treat of decaying is larger.
Also some people sows the seeds in sphagnum but I think the pumice or similar substratum is better idea for the same reason.The unwanted water drains away.
Title: Re: Tulipomania nouveau?
Post by: Paul T on August 24, 2008, 12:55:37 PM
I had it suggested to me (and this is what I have planted it in) that a mix of half and half orchid bark and large scoria (or some sort of rough stones).  Perfect drainage, but still has enough surfaces to hold moisture readily enough without staying wet.
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