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General Subjects => Alpines => Topic started by: johnw on September 20, 2008, 08:12:19 PM

Title: Asarum
Post by: johnw on September 20, 2008, 08:12:19 PM
This Asarum was in many Long Island gardens. The leaves are matte lime green. I have waded through the Asarum book with over 400 photos but don't see any that are even close.

Any help would be appreciated.

johnw
Title: Re: Asarum i.d.
Post by: Maggi Young on September 20, 2008, 08:24:25 PM
I have no idea, John  :-[ ..... I really like it though, so will look forward to discovering its name. :D
Title: Re: Asarum i.d.
Post by: Carlo on September 22, 2008, 12:39:35 PM
I love asarum and grow a number of the chinese/japanese species and cultivars. I'm no expert, but I'd look at shuttleworthii and/or asaroides. The color of the leaf is not likely to be determinative.
Title: Re: Asarum i.d.
Post by: johnw on September 22, 2008, 02:57:07 PM
I love asarum and grow a number of the chinese/japanese species and cultivars. I'm no expert, but I'd look at shuttleworthii and/or asaroides. The color of the leaf is not likely to be determinative.

Carlo -  Thanks. They certainly are a confusing lot and the book concentrates on aberrant selections which doesn't help much in this case.  I wish we could grow more of them but it seems our summers are just not hot enough for many of them. A. caudatum and europeum grow here with great abandon, I had A. virginicum for awhile and it was a lovely thing. The Japanese species from Eco Gardens all petered out rather quickly - seemed like something was in their roots. Someone said A. takoi might be worth a try as it is quite cold hardy.

johnw
Title: Re: Asarum i.d.
Post by: Carlo on September 22, 2008, 03:13:23 PM
And takoi is an unlikely but possible third option for the i.d.

I grow the Japanese and Chinese species in pots--outdoors in a morning sun/afternoon shade situation during the season, and on a cool north facing windowsill for the winter. My thinking is that heat is problematic for them, especially in pots, so your summer should be just fine. They seem to respond well to being watered like orchids...almost dry before you give in and soak them again. When they show slight wilt, I give them a good drink and then leave them be.
Title: Re: Asarum i.d.
Post by: Jim McKenney on September 22, 2008, 04:22:07 PM
And takoi is an unlikely but possible third option for the i.d.

I grow the Japanese and Chinese species in pots--outdoors in a morning sun/afternoon shade situation during the season, and on a cool north facing windowsill for the winter. My thinking is that heat is problematic for them, especially in pots, so your summer should be just fine. They seem to respond well to being watered like orchids...almost dry before you give in and soak them again. When they show slight wilt, I give them a good drink and then leave them be.

My experience here in USDA zone 7 Maryland runs a bit counter to that, Carlo. I've had trouble with most asarums in heavy shade: they simply don't do that well, although they do survive.
Last year I was moving things around in the garden and had some potted plants of Asarum nobilissimum and A. maximum which were placed - with the intention that they would be there only temporarily - in a frame which got full sun for much of the day. I got busy, and the roots grew from the pots into the ground. Seeing that the plant were now firmly rooted in the new spot, I left them there in the full sun throughout the growing season.
These same plants spent the winter in a sunny cold frame: I'm convinced that they can handle sun very well - and benefit from it. If I forget to water them, they droop; but I've never seen any permanent foliage damage, and the leaves are large and healthy. So I think your advice about watering them like orchids agrees with my experience. But there is no doubt in my mind about the heat tolerance of the two species mentioned: they can take it!
Title: Re: Asarum i.d.
Post by: SueG on September 22, 2008, 04:32:54 PM

My experience here in USDA zone 7 Maryland runs a bit counter to that, Carlo. I've had trouble with most asarums in heavy shade: they simply don't do that well, although they do survive.
Last year I was moving things around in the garden and had some potted plants of Asarum nobilissimum and A. maximum which were placed - with the intention that they would be there only temporarily - in a frame which got full sun for much of the day. I got busy, and the roots grew from the pots into the ground. Seeing that the plant were now firmly rooted in the new spot, I left them there in the full sun throughout the growing season.
These same plants spent the winter in a sunny cold frame: I'm convinced that they can handle sun very well - and benefit from it. If I forget to water them, they droop; but I've never seen any permanent foliage damage, and the leaves are large and healthy. So I think your advice about watering them like orchids agrees with my experience. But there is no doubt in my mind about the heat tolerance of the two species mentioned: they can take it!

Hmm - wonder if this might explain why the couple of species I've got which are in deep shade look quite so pathetic - might try them next year with a bit more daylight and will remember the tip about the watering - thanks!
Sue
Title: Re: Asarum i.d.
Post by: Carlo on September 22, 2008, 04:47:14 PM
Good to know. I'm sure that additional sun will improve flowering...

What do you think about a winter rest in a shadier spot? I've got A. minimitanianum blooming there almost all winter long (and it's blooming again now!).
Title: Re: Asarum i.d.
Post by: Jim McKenney on September 22, 2008, 07:12:49 PM
Good to know. I'm sure that additional sun will improve flowering...

What do you think about a winter rest in a shadier spot? I've got A. minimitanianum blooming there almost all winter long (and it's blooming again now!).

Carlo, I'm still learning here, so don't take what I have to say too seriously. But it seems to me that common sense (watch out!) says that the ones which grow under deciduous trees would get more sun in winter.

On the other hand, it sounds as if your Asarum minamitanianum is doing well: why argue with success?
Title: Re: Asarum i.d.
Post by: Afloden on September 24, 2008, 02:53:53 AM
Hello,

 The Asarum looks like what Asiatica used to offer as A.takaoi var hisauchii. I grow it and it is an easy grower with long spreading rhizomes. My plant in the garden has grown from a 4 inch pot to over a foot in diameter this summer! Still not as bad as A.splendens though.

 Most of the Asarum proved hardy in my Z5 Kansas garden over many years. Minimatianianum had several winters where it remained evergreen at -11 to -13F. Rigiscens, hexalobum, asaroides, and several others all did as well.

 Aaron Floden
 Knoxville, TN
Title: Re: Asarum i.d.
Post by: Paul T on September 24, 2008, 06:35:07 AM
Aaron,

Oh to have all those Asarum.  Can't say I've previously even heard of half of the ones you mentioned.  Here I grow marmoratum, splendens, maxima, canadense, caudatum album and one other that I can't recall the name of right now that I got from Rob K.  Haven't seen an Asarum I didn't like yet!!  ;D  Wish they were more available.
Title: Asarum 2009
Post by: johanneshoeller on April 09, 2009, 05:44:55 PM
Some Asarum which I grow. I cannot identify them (A. maximum,...)

Title: Re: Asarum 2009
Post by: johanneshoeller on April 09, 2009, 05:50:39 PM
Some more Asarum
Title: Re: Asarum 2009
Post by: ranunculus on April 09, 2009, 06:11:41 PM
The red flowered one is outstanding Hans.
Title: Re: Asarum 2009
Post by: Maggi Young on April 09, 2009, 06:26:31 PM
What an interesting selection of these other-worldly creatures!
Title: Re: Asarum 2009
Post by: WimB on April 09, 2009, 06:30:32 PM
The ones with the brown and yellow flowers look particularly edible, they remind me of small easter eggs filled with "advocaat" (now I have to go and eat some chocolate...)
Title: Re: Asarum 2009
Post by: Carlo on April 09, 2009, 07:56:39 PM
Might be able to help out next week. I've got a fair selection here...and an even better reference (you know the one Maggi).
Title: Re: Asarum 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on April 09, 2009, 09:29:58 PM
The ones with the brown and yellow flowers look particularly edible, they remind me of small easter eggs filled with "advocaat" (now I have to go and eat some chocolate...)

Well it's almost Easter Sunday. Chocolate and advocaat eh?
Title: Re: Asarum 2009
Post by: Maggi Young on April 09, 2009, 09:36:02 PM
Carlo: I do?  ???

Lesley: two minds with but a single thought!  :D
Title: Re: Asarum 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on April 09, 2009, 09:39:33 PM
here is where I dig myself into a hole.
1,3,4,5,6 are Asarum maximum
7,8 are Asarum campanulatum
Title: Re: Asarum 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on April 09, 2009, 09:53:59 PM

Lesley: two minds with but a single thought!  :D

Two hearts that beat as one?  ;D Perhaps not.
Title: Re: Asarum 2009
Post by: Diane Clement on April 09, 2009, 10:04:31 PM
here is where I dig myself into a hole.
1,3,4,5,6 are Asarum maximum   7,8 are Asarum campanulatum   


I'll join you in the hole, Tony, agree on all the campanulatums and maximums (although 5 is a bit brown?)
and try for 2 and 11 as Asarum splendens
No.10 & 12 are familiar and I'm sure we've had these before but the names elude me at the moment
Title: Re: Asarum 2009
Post by: WimB on April 10, 2009, 07:07:28 AM
Ladies,

I didn't tempt you to much with the suggestion of chocolate filled with advocaat, did I?  ;)
Title: Re: Asarum 2009
Post by: ichristie on April 10, 2009, 07:50:41 AM
thank you very much for showing us these wonderful plants, i notice the potting mix has lots of perlite and what looks like a very rough peat. Do you grow these under cover all the time and do you liquid feed them??. I must try and find some plants most interesting,  cheers Ian the Christie kind.
Title: Re: Asarum 2009
Post by: johanneshoeller on April 10, 2009, 03:12:59 PM
I grow the Asarum in a green house, but will try to grow outside this year. I use this soil for all Liliums, too.

The flowers are very different. Some A. maximum have black flowers, others brown or brownish. Are these all maximum?
Title: Re: Asarum 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on April 10, 2009, 11:38:10 PM
I grow the Asarum in a green house, but will try to grow outside this year. I use this soil for all Liliums, too.

The flowers are very different. Some A. maximum have black flowers, others brown or brownish. Are these all maximum?

some of the brownish ones may be delavayi.

I grow mine in a frame. The biggest problem is slugs which decimate them.I also get self sown seedlings in the sand plunge.
Title: Re: Asarum 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on April 11, 2009, 08:46:15 PM
Ladies,

I didn't tempt you to much with the suggestion of chocolate filled with advocaat, did I?  ;)

Well it does sound very good Wim. Perhaps for Roger's birthday which is today (12th) but really he's a roast beef and Yorkshire pudding man, rather than anything sweet. :) I'm taking him out for a treat, to an Apple event, put on by the local Slow Food people. There is to be a lot of cider, a press in operation, old apple varieties to sample and many other odds and ends related to apples. The sort of occasion he enjoys. :D
Title: Re: Asarum 2009
Post by: Paul T on April 11, 2009, 10:16:48 PM
Lesley,

Well Happy Birthday to Roger, from across the pond. 8)
Title: Re: Asarum 2009
Post by: Carlo on April 13, 2009, 01:43:59 PM
Maggi,

The japanese book we both now have in our libraries with the 400+ photographs of asarum in all their grotesque splendor...
Title: Re: Asarum 2009
Post by: Maggi Young on April 13, 2009, 06:18:35 PM
Oh, that book.....yes........ but where have I put it?  :o
Title: Re: Asarum 2009
Post by: Hristo on April 15, 2009, 09:46:27 PM
Hi Hans, super Asarums!
From original posting pics 10 and 12 petrhaps A.heterotropoides?
Only suggest this because it looks like the plant I am about to post!

Asarum chinense.....more likely A. sieboldii
Asarum heterotropoides
Title: Re: Asarum 2009
Post by: Afloden on April 15, 2009, 10:00:55 PM
 #5 is likely delavayi, but without cutting the flower in half and see it in profile it is difficult to tell.

 # 10 looks like caulescens, as the sepals are beginning to reflex, maybe? If they remain erect then I would say it is sieboldii.

 # 12 is heterotropoides.

 Hristo, A. chinense is an evergreen species and the flower has a constricted calyx tube. Your plant looks like sieboldii, but... Check the Flora of China online and key it.

 Once I get too it, I'll post pictures of the native ones in my area.

 Aaron Floden
 Knoxville, TN
 UT Herbarium
Title: Re: Asarum 2009
Post by: Hristo on April 16, 2009, 05:37:04 AM
Aaron, cheers I took a look and it keys out better to A.sieboldii than A.chinense, the flowers arise from a double leaf not a solitary leaf!
Lose one species, gain another!  ::)
Title: Asarum
Post by: Giles on September 08, 2009, 05:28:53 PM
There's an article in this September's 'The Plantsman' (Vol 8; part 3, Sept '09) by Russell Sharp on Asarum species.
If this is the wrong place to stick this, I guess it will be moved  ;)
Title: Re: Asarum
Post by: greenspan on April 15, 2010, 07:01:30 PM
i'm a newbie here, my english isn't so good...so please bear with me. ;D

in late 2009 i've got 3 asarum, named as asarum heterotropoides. i planted 2 of them in my garden, 1 in a pot and stored this sample in my cold, but frostfree greenhouse as a backup copy. the "greenhouse" heterotropoides has quite big flowers as you can see on the foto. i named it as a. heterotropoides type1, the garden heterotropoides as type2. the habitus/shape(?) of all 3 plants is the same. the leaves are plain green without any marks or patterns. the flower size of type2 is notable smaller than type1, the colour is different as you can see (both examples in garden are identical, they differ only to type1). origin presumably china.

my questions...are these asarum a. heterotropoides? are they different varietis of heterotropoides or different species? i don't know if the difference in flower size and colour depends to the winter coldness. the type2 withstanded frost up to -15°C/5°F under a layer of metasequoia needles.
Title: Re: Asarum
Post by: Gail on April 15, 2010, 08:18:27 PM
Hi Greenspan and welcome!  Your english is fine, don't worry.

Chris posted a picture of his Asarum heterotropoides here;   http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3375.15

It certainly looks like your first one but hopefully someone more experienced with asarums will help (I only have A. splendens)
Title: Re: Asarum
Post by: greenspan on April 16, 2010, 07:33:45 PM
thx for the link. 8) hm...i agree that hristos asarum (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3375.0;attach=124285;image) in posting #19 of the "asarum 2009"-thread should be the same species like mine (type1). he named it as heterotropoides. i checked the description of asarum heterotropoides (http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200006652) in the flora of china (excerpt): "lobes reflexed". this is what the lobes of my specimen, neither type1 nor type2 doesn't make.

here an example what i understand when the sepals are described as "lobes reflexed"...asarum caulescens shows this (see my foto; btw...caulescens is full hardy in z6b, foto is a few days old). in my opinion hristos foto in his posting #19 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3375.0;attach=124283;image) in the "asarum 2009"-thread shows asarum caulescens and not a. sieboldii (sieboldii in flora of china (http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200006671): "lobes erect or spreading"). i reckon that the foto was made, when the flower just opens and teh lobes reflex back a few days later.

the flowers of type 1+ type 2 by comparison. i can't believe, that this are the same species, whether heterotropoides(?) or another..

Title: Re: Asarum
Post by: bulborum on June 19, 2010, 10:10:29 AM
I think it is good to continue here although it is not a real rhizome
if not Maggi then you maybe know a better place

most plants I have are from Chen Yi
I just bought them because I didn't know them
so maybe the names are wrong
if somebody knows don't hesitate to correct me

The first is Asarum maximum

Roland
Title: Re: Asarum
Post by: Maggi Young on June 19, 2010, 11:52:55 AM
Sorry Folks, I've been slacking again..... will move this to Alpine Section.  :D
Title: Re: Asarum
Post by: bulborum on June 19, 2010, 12:56:55 PM
OK

Thanks Maggi
Its a difficult plant to place
for me its a good place
never been here because I am a bulbman

Roland
Title: Re: Asarum
Post by: Maggi Young on June 19, 2010, 01:50:35 PM
OK

Thanks Maggi
Its a difficult plant to place
for me its a good place
never been here because I am a bulbman

Roland
Well ,as you will have seen, we adopt a very relaxed attitude to plants with rhizomes, tubers etc and consider a great many of those plants to ne "honorary bulbs" for the purposes of the Forum... anything with lumpy underground storage organs being included, for the most part,.... but If the move has brought you, Roland, to a part of this huge forum then it may do the same for other and likewise send some non-bulb-lovers heading in the opposite directioin to check out the bulb section to see what "other" delights might be found there!! ;)
Title: Re: Asarum
Post by: bulborum on June 19, 2010, 01:58:31 PM
I have to look out carefully
otherwise my wife ask me of I am married with the forum   ;D ;D

Roland
Title: Re: Asarum
Post by: cohan on June 20, 2010, 07:40:33 AM
I think it is good to continue here although it is not a real rhizome
if not Maggi then you maybe know a better place

most plants I have are from Chen Yi
I just bought them because I didn't know them
so maybe the names are wrong
if somebody knows don't hesitate to correct me

The first is Asarum maximum

Roland

this looks like a very interesting plant! someone was showing us some really nice species earlier in the year, but i forget which thread it was in....
Title: Re: Asarum
Post by: Maggi Young on June 20, 2010, 10:01:25 AM
 I have merged this page with some pages  which showed some good plants.... scroll back through the posts to see them.
Title: Re: Asarum
Post by: bulborum on June 20, 2010, 01:25:32 PM
Finally everything comes together
Thanks Maggi

Roland
Title: Re: Asarum
Post by: cohan on June 20, 2010, 05:21:02 PM
I have merged this page with some pages  which showed some good plants.... scroll back through the posts to see them.

at first i wondered if i had somehow missed those older pages yesterday, but then realised it was maggi's merging magic ;)
Title: Re: Asarum
Post by: bulborum on June 20, 2010, 10:35:15 PM
Here a really hardy one

Asarum caudatum Album

almost finished flowering and just divided

Roland
Title: Re: Asarum
Post by: Paul T on June 22, 2010, 12:34:15 PM
Wonderful pics everyone.  I only grow a few here... A. maxima, splendens, caudatum alba and marmoratum (the last I haven't flowered as yet).  I just love them.  I noticed yesterday when I picked up a 6 inch pot that i have had splendens in, that there were shoots coming out 3 different drainage holes.  I'm going to have to cut the pot to pieces to get them out safely.  ::)  Worth the effort though.  The original plant on top is still looking good, I just didn't realise that there were shoots coming out the bottom as well.  :o

Thanks again for the pics everyone.
Title: Re: Asarum
Post by: kiwi on August 22, 2010, 02:51:34 AM
Asarum hartwegii flowering only on it's second growing season from seed! What a plant!!!
Another Asarum I recieved as a cutting. Not sure of the species.
Title: Re: Asarum
Post by: Maggi Young on August 22, 2010, 10:10:58 AM
Asarum hartwegii flowering only on it's second season from seed! What a plant!!!

That IS fast! Not a plant I've tried from seed, thinking it would be a long wait.... but you give me hope  :)
Title: Re: Asarum
Post by: johnw on July 17, 2015, 03:16:41 AM
It suddenly struck me tonight that I could not think of a single Asarum hybrid.  Can this be so?  Surely the Japanese have tried their hand at hybridizing them....

Asarum europeaeum would surely make a very hardy parent.

john
Title: Re: Asarum
Post by: Hoy on July 17, 2015, 07:27:49 AM
It is not that kind of thoughts that occupy me at night ;D but I am looking for slug-hardy Asarums. I have not had success with any - and it is not the weather.
Title: Re: Asarum
Post by: Growild on July 18, 2015, 01:03:25 PM
It is not that kind of thoughts that occupy me at night ;D but I am looking for slug-hardy Asarums. I have not had success with any - and it is not the weather.

I do not think there is such a thing Hoy but the ones that get least eaten here are A. caudatum, caulescens and canadense (species with small hairs on the leaves). Anything near evergreen, glossy and with silver markings seems to be their number one dinning choice!
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