Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => Alpines => Topic started by: johnw on September 20, 2008, 08:12:19 PM
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This Asarum was in many Long Island gardens. The leaves are matte lime green. I have waded through the Asarum book with over 400 photos but don't see any that are even close.
Any help would be appreciated.
johnw
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I have no idea, John :-[ ..... I really like it though, so will look forward to discovering its name. :D
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I love asarum and grow a number of the chinese/japanese species and cultivars. I'm no expert, but I'd look at shuttleworthii and/or asaroides. The color of the leaf is not likely to be determinative.
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I love asarum and grow a number of the chinese/japanese species and cultivars. I'm no expert, but I'd look at shuttleworthii and/or asaroides. The color of the leaf is not likely to be determinative.
Carlo - Thanks. They certainly are a confusing lot and the book concentrates on aberrant selections which doesn't help much in this case. I wish we could grow more of them but it seems our summers are just not hot enough for many of them. A. caudatum and europeum grow here with great abandon, I had A. virginicum for awhile and it was a lovely thing. The Japanese species from Eco Gardens all petered out rather quickly - seemed like something was in their roots. Someone said A. takoi might be worth a try as it is quite cold hardy.
johnw
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And takoi is an unlikely but possible third option for the i.d.
I grow the Japanese and Chinese species in pots--outdoors in a morning sun/afternoon shade situation during the season, and on a cool north facing windowsill for the winter. My thinking is that heat is problematic for them, especially in pots, so your summer should be just fine. They seem to respond well to being watered like orchids...almost dry before you give in and soak them again. When they show slight wilt, I give them a good drink and then leave them be.
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And takoi is an unlikely but possible third option for the i.d.
I grow the Japanese and Chinese species in pots--outdoors in a morning sun/afternoon shade situation during the season, and on a cool north facing windowsill for the winter. My thinking is that heat is problematic for them, especially in pots, so your summer should be just fine. They seem to respond well to being watered like orchids...almost dry before you give in and soak them again. When they show slight wilt, I give them a good drink and then leave them be.
My experience here in USDA zone 7 Maryland runs a bit counter to that, Carlo. I've had trouble with most asarums in heavy shade: they simply don't do that well, although they do survive.
Last year I was moving things around in the garden and had some potted plants of Asarum nobilissimum and A. maximum which were placed - with the intention that they would be there only temporarily - in a frame which got full sun for much of the day. I got busy, and the roots grew from the pots into the ground. Seeing that the plant were now firmly rooted in the new spot, I left them there in the full sun throughout the growing season.
These same plants spent the winter in a sunny cold frame: I'm convinced that they can handle sun very well - and benefit from it. If I forget to water them, they droop; but I've never seen any permanent foliage damage, and the leaves are large and healthy. So I think your advice about watering them like orchids agrees with my experience. But there is no doubt in my mind about the heat tolerance of the two species mentioned: they can take it!
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My experience here in USDA zone 7 Maryland runs a bit counter to that, Carlo. I've had trouble with most asarums in heavy shade: they simply don't do that well, although they do survive.
Last year I was moving things around in the garden and had some potted plants of Asarum nobilissimum and A. maximum which were placed - with the intention that they would be there only temporarily - in a frame which got full sun for much of the day. I got busy, and the roots grew from the pots into the ground. Seeing that the plant were now firmly rooted in the new spot, I left them there in the full sun throughout the growing season.
These same plants spent the winter in a sunny cold frame: I'm convinced that they can handle sun very well - and benefit from it. If I forget to water them, they droop; but I've never seen any permanent foliage damage, and the leaves are large and healthy. So I think your advice about watering them like orchids agrees with my experience. But there is no doubt in my mind about the heat tolerance of the two species mentioned: they can take it!
Hmm - wonder if this might explain why the couple of species I've got which are in deep shade look quite so pathetic - might try them next year with a bit more daylight and will remember the tip about the watering - thanks!
Sue
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Good to know. I'm sure that additional sun will improve flowering...
What do you think about a winter rest in a shadier spot? I've got A. minimitanianum blooming there almost all winter long (and it's blooming again now!).
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Good to know. I'm sure that additional sun will improve flowering...
What do you think about a winter rest in a shadier spot? I've got A. minimitanianum blooming there almost all winter long (and it's blooming again now!).
Carlo, I'm still learning here, so don't take what I have to say too seriously. But it seems to me that common sense (watch out!) says that the ones which grow under deciduous trees would get more sun in winter.
On the other hand, it sounds as if your Asarum minamitanianum is doing well: why argue with success?
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Hello,
The Asarum looks like what Asiatica used to offer as A.takaoi var hisauchii. I grow it and it is an easy grower with long spreading rhizomes. My plant in the garden has grown from a 4 inch pot to over a foot in diameter this summer! Still not as bad as A.splendens though.
Most of the Asarum proved hardy in my Z5 Kansas garden over many years. Minimatianianum had several winters where it remained evergreen at -11 to -13F. Rigiscens, hexalobum, asaroides, and several others all did as well.
Aaron Floden
Knoxville, TN
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Aaron,
Oh to have all those Asarum. Can't say I've previously even heard of half of the ones you mentioned. Here I grow marmoratum, splendens, maxima, canadense, caudatum album and one other that I can't recall the name of right now that I got from Rob K. Haven't seen an Asarum I didn't like yet!! ;D Wish they were more available.
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Some Asarum which I grow. I cannot identify them (A. maximum,...)
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Some more Asarum
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The red flowered one is outstanding Hans.
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What an interesting selection of these other-worldly creatures!
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The ones with the brown and yellow flowers look particularly edible, they remind me of small easter eggs filled with "advocaat" (now I have to go and eat some chocolate...)
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Might be able to help out next week. I've got a fair selection here...and an even better reference (you know the one Maggi).
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The ones with the brown and yellow flowers look particularly edible, they remind me of small easter eggs filled with "advocaat" (now I have to go and eat some chocolate...)
Well it's almost Easter Sunday. Chocolate and advocaat eh?
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Carlo: I do? ???
Lesley: two minds with but a single thought! :D
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here is where I dig myself into a hole.
1,3,4,5,6 are Asarum maximum
7,8 are Asarum campanulatum
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Lesley: two minds with but a single thought! :D
Two hearts that beat as one? ;D Perhaps not.
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here is where I dig myself into a hole.
1,3,4,5,6 are Asarum maximum 7,8 are Asarum campanulatum
I'll join you in the hole, Tony, agree on all the campanulatums and maximums (although 5 is a bit brown?)
and try for 2 and 11 as Asarum splendens
No.10 & 12 are familiar and I'm sure we've had these before but the names elude me at the moment
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Ladies,
I didn't tempt you to much with the suggestion of chocolate filled with advocaat, did I? ;)
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thank you very much for showing us these wonderful plants, i notice the potting mix has lots of perlite and what looks like a very rough peat. Do you grow these under cover all the time and do you liquid feed them??. I must try and find some plants most interesting, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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I grow the Asarum in a green house, but will try to grow outside this year. I use this soil for all Liliums, too.
The flowers are very different. Some A. maximum have black flowers, others brown or brownish. Are these all maximum?
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I grow the Asarum in a green house, but will try to grow outside this year. I use this soil for all Liliums, too.
The flowers are very different. Some A. maximum have black flowers, others brown or brownish. Are these all maximum?
some of the brownish ones may be delavayi.
I grow mine in a frame. The biggest problem is slugs which decimate them.I also get self sown seedlings in the sand plunge.
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Ladies,
I didn't tempt you to much with the suggestion of chocolate filled with advocaat, did I? ;)
Well it does sound very good Wim. Perhaps for Roger's birthday which is today (12th) but really he's a roast beef and Yorkshire pudding man, rather than anything sweet. :) I'm taking him out for a treat, to an Apple event, put on by the local Slow Food people. There is to be a lot of cider, a press in operation, old apple varieties to sample and many other odds and ends related to apples. The sort of occasion he enjoys. :D
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Lesley,
Well Happy Birthday to Roger, from across the pond. 8)
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Maggi,
The japanese book we both now have in our libraries with the 400+ photographs of asarum in all their grotesque splendor...
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Oh, that book.....yes........ but where have I put it? :o
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Hi Hans, super Asarums!
From original posting pics 10 and 12 petrhaps A.heterotropoides?
Only suggest this because it looks like the plant I am about to post!
Asarum chinense.....more likely A. sieboldii
Asarum heterotropoides
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#5 is likely delavayi, but without cutting the flower in half and see it in profile it is difficult to tell.
# 10 looks like caulescens, as the sepals are beginning to reflex, maybe? If they remain erect then I would say it is sieboldii.
# 12 is heterotropoides.
Hristo, A. chinense is an evergreen species and the flower has a constricted calyx tube. Your plant looks like sieboldii, but... Check the Flora of China online and key it.
Once I get too it, I'll post pictures of the native ones in my area.
Aaron Floden
Knoxville, TN
UT Herbarium
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Aaron, cheers I took a look and it keys out better to A.sieboldii than A.chinense, the flowers arise from a double leaf not a solitary leaf!
Lose one species, gain another! ::)
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There's an article in this September's 'The Plantsman' (Vol 8; part 3, Sept '09) by Russell Sharp on Asarum species.
If this is the wrong place to stick this, I guess it will be moved ;)
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i'm a newbie here, my english isn't so good...so please bear with me. ;D
in late 2009 i've got 3 asarum, named as asarum heterotropoides. i planted 2 of them in my garden, 1 in a pot and stored this sample in my cold, but frostfree greenhouse as a backup copy. the "greenhouse" heterotropoides has quite big flowers as you can see on the foto. i named it as a. heterotropoides type1, the garden heterotropoides as type2. the habitus/shape(?) of all 3 plants is the same. the leaves are plain green without any marks or patterns. the flower size of type2 is notable smaller than type1, the colour is different as you can see (both examples in garden are identical, they differ only to type1). origin presumably china.
my questions...are these asarum a. heterotropoides? are they different varietis of heterotropoides or different species? i don't know if the difference in flower size and colour depends to the winter coldness. the type2 withstanded frost up to -15°C/5°F under a layer of metasequoia needles.
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Hi Greenspan and welcome! Your english is fine, don't worry.
Chris posted a picture of his Asarum heterotropoides here; http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3375.15
It certainly looks like your first one but hopefully someone more experienced with asarums will help (I only have A. splendens)
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thx for the link. 8) hm...i agree that hristos asarum (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3375.0;attach=124285;image) in posting #19 of the "asarum 2009"-thread should be the same species like mine (type1). he named it as heterotropoides. i checked the description of asarum heterotropoides (http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200006652) in the flora of china (excerpt): "lobes reflexed". this is what the lobes of my specimen, neither type1 nor type2 doesn't make.
here an example what i understand when the sepals are described as "lobes reflexed"...asarum caulescens shows this (see my foto; btw...caulescens is full hardy in z6b, foto is a few days old). in my opinion hristos foto in his posting #19 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3375.0;attach=124283;image) in the "asarum 2009"-thread shows asarum caulescens and not a. sieboldii (sieboldii in flora of china (http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200006671): "lobes erect or spreading"). i reckon that the foto was made, when the flower just opens and teh lobes reflex back a few days later.
the flowers of type 1+ type 2 by comparison. i can't believe, that this are the same species, whether heterotropoides(?) or another..
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I think it is good to continue here although it is not a real rhizome
if not Maggi then you maybe know a better place
most plants I have are from Chen Yi
I just bought them because I didn't know them
so maybe the names are wrong
if somebody knows don't hesitate to correct me
The first is Asarum maximum
Roland
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Sorry Folks, I've been slacking again..... will move this to Alpine Section. :D
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OK
Thanks Maggi
Its a difficult plant to place
for me its a good place
never been here because I am a bulbman
Roland
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OK
Thanks Maggi
Its a difficult plant to place
for me its a good place
never been here because I am a bulbman
Roland
Well ,as you will have seen, we adopt a very relaxed attitude to plants with rhizomes, tubers etc and consider a great many of those plants to ne "honorary bulbs" for the purposes of the Forum... anything with lumpy underground storage organs being included, for the most part,.... but If the move has brought you, Roland, to a part of this huge forum then it may do the same for other and likewise send some non-bulb-lovers heading in the opposite directioin to check out the bulb section to see what "other" delights might be found there!! ;)
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I have to look out carefully
otherwise my wife ask me of I am married with the forum ;D ;D
Roland
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I think it is good to continue here although it is not a real rhizome
if not Maggi then you maybe know a better place
most plants I have are from Chen Yi
I just bought them because I didn't know them
so maybe the names are wrong
if somebody knows don't hesitate to correct me
The first is Asarum maximum
Roland
this looks like a very interesting plant! someone was showing us some really nice species earlier in the year, but i forget which thread it was in....
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I have merged this page with some pages which showed some good plants.... scroll back through the posts to see them.
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Finally everything comes together
Thanks Maggi
Roland
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I have merged this page with some pages which showed some good plants.... scroll back through the posts to see them.
at first i wondered if i had somehow missed those older pages yesterday, but then realised it was maggi's merging magic ;)
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Here a really hardy one
Asarum caudatum Album
almost finished flowering and just divided
Roland
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Wonderful pics everyone. I only grow a few here... A. maxima, splendens, caudatum alba and marmoratum (the last I haven't flowered as yet). I just love them. I noticed yesterday when I picked up a 6 inch pot that i have had splendens in, that there were shoots coming out 3 different drainage holes. I'm going to have to cut the pot to pieces to get them out safely. ::) Worth the effort though. The original plant on top is still looking good, I just didn't realise that there were shoots coming out the bottom as well. :o
Thanks again for the pics everyone.
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Asarum hartwegii flowering only on it's second growing season from seed! What a plant!!!
Another Asarum I recieved as a cutting. Not sure of the species.
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Asarum hartwegii flowering only on it's second season from seed! What a plant!!!
That IS fast! Not a plant I've tried from seed, thinking it would be a long wait.... but you give me hope :)
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It suddenly struck me tonight that I could not think of a single Asarum hybrid. Can this be so? Surely the Japanese have tried their hand at hybridizing them....
Asarum europeaeum would surely make a very hardy parent.
john
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It is not that kind of thoughts that occupy me at night ;D but I am looking for slug-hardy Asarums. I have not had success with any - and it is not the weather.
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It is not that kind of thoughts that occupy me at night ;D but I am looking for slug-hardy Asarums. I have not had success with any - and it is not the weather.
I do not think there is such a thing Hoy but the ones that get least eaten here are A. caudatum, caulescens and canadense (species with small hairs on the leaves). Anything near evergreen, glossy and with silver markings seems to be their number one dinning choice!