Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: robsorchids on August 08, 2008, 07:37:35 PM
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i have begun sligtly damping the soil in the pots of the various reginae cultivars, as well as peshmenii, i hope im not being to hasty?
of course i wont be watering them to much, i have only been giving slight watering from placing the pots out in the recent rain to help, am i right in thinking they will begin making new roots at around the end of the month perhaps? so what im doing will help with this?
i wont begin full watering regime keeping them moist until the begining of autumn anyway.
they have been kept dry for most of the summer in the cool shed, they were all repotted into fresh mix of perlite and J.innes no 2. I have been giving the odd water every month or so.
as im still new to the autumn drops (compared to you guys) i dont want to make any mistakes so any help would be appreciated.
thank you
rob
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Rob,
I don't treat them any differently here than I do any other Galanthus. I certainly don't dry any Galanthus I grow.... they get watering throughout the year, although less in summer than while in growth. Do reginae-olgae need to be completely dry in summer? If so, don't ANY of your tell mine as they're growing and thriving here with summer watering. :o
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I find Reginae-olgae (at least some forms) can tolerate some rain in the garden during Summer if it has well-drained conditions in a sheltered spot. But it's a different question in pots, especially plastic pots. I've found all snowdrops in pots are best kept dry all Summer. To avoid them getting dessicated, I leave them in their old compost (which is compacted tight around the bulbs) and only repot about August-September as they're more likely to dessicate in loose fresh dry compost.
I'd take care with watering reginae-olgae in pots until you actually see shoots appearing. Just barely moist would be my suggestion until you're sure the bulbs are well rooted (look for roots emerging from the bottoms of the pots and/or signs of top-growth).
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I guess it is all in the perspective of dry, isn't it. I have never deliberately left a Galanthus dry here, ever. But then our dry is so much drier than your dry. Almost all of mine are grown in plastic pots, although some of course are in the ground. All are watered to some extent during summer, because with our heat they would otherwise be shrivelled little dead things by autumn! :o I have to remind myself at times how different the English and so much of European conditions are. Almost like a different world when I hear how you guys have to water so little. Wouldn't it be LOVELY not to have to water? So much more time to do other things. ::)
Rob,
Glad you've had advice from someone in your own sort of climate. I hesitated in responded initially, but thought it would give you my perspective at least. So very different to your own conditions unfortunately. Thanks for the info Martin.... I'll keep it in mind if I ever move to a climate where there is regular summer rain. ;)
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Paul, we could do with some of your climatic conditions right now. Our 'regular summer rain' is getting beyond a joke. It's been October here for the last couple of months (officially - every other night a weather presenter trots it out..."more like October with a huge weather system sitting over...") :-[
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Rob, you could always try gently tipping a pot out to see how your reginae-olgae are getting on. I wouldn't really expect them to be rooting yet, so you shouldn't do any damage, and it'll give you an idea of whether they're too dry or too wet. Or have a gentle poke around with your finger first to see if they're rooting. If you repotted into loose compost early in the summer, then it's probably not been a bad idea to moisten the compost a little from time to time to make sure they don't get too dessicated. It's when they're in compacted old compost that I find they really don't like summer moisture - and never summer wet (at least not in pots - far less dangerous in the open ground).
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Just for you Rob! Yesterday I looked at the pots and saw Galanthus reginæ-olgæ 'Tilebarn Jamie' was in bud. Today it's first scape has opened. The leaves and second scape (I hope) are yet to emerge. I hope yours are not too far behind.
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Rob,
I checked my Tilebarn Jamie this evening after I was surprised at seeing Brian's example in flower as mine was showing no signs of growth above the soil level. I grow mine in a pot just like you. The bulb was just beginning to show signs of a shoot emerging from the top and therefore it would appeared to have survived this year. As you are just up the road from me (Cambridgeshire) I expect that ours will flower a little later than Brian's plant in tropical Norfolk ;)
David
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tropical Norfolk
Yeah, I wish 8)
Glad to see yours are both into action, nobody was as surprised as me to see it in flower as it was in the shade down the side of the house in a lattice pot!
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tilebarn must be quite tough! which is very good to know, it also seems to increase well
'Tilebarn Jamie' does indeed increase well, but very quickly becomes congested and this results in the plants producing plenty of leaf, but not many flowers. I lift my 'Tilebarn Jamie' and split the bulbs every 2 years, which seems to keep them flowering well.
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Yes Rob they certainly are little miracles!
Thanks for the tip Chris will certainly follow your advice. :)
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Last days we had a lot of rain. Today on sunny Saturday I looked for the autumn-snowdrops. Here is the first G.peshmenii out of the ground. Mean, I can see the the green tips?!?!
Sorry all, the real opener of the season is Galanthus reginæ-olgæ 'Tilebarn Jamie' of Brian Ellis. I haven`t seen his post early enough! Sorry Brian
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Hagen
It is there - look closer :)
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:o :o :o Hagen , which sunny Saturday ???
here looks as first G. reg. olg f. corcyrensis from the ground ...but I not going outside ....to much rain :'(
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Just for you Rob! Yesterday I looked at the pots and saw Galanthus reginæ-olgæ 'Tilebarn Jamie' was in bud. Today it's first scape has opened. The leaves and second scape (I hope) are yet to emerge. I hope yours are not too far behind.
Hi all!
Here is the real opener of the season. I do not want ignore this post of Brian. Sorry so much
How can I di it into the other topic???
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Hagen and Others.... I have merged the two threads, "time to begin waking up n. regina olgae" and "Autumn-Season 2008 begins" 8)
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Here is the real opener of the season. I do not want ignore this post of Brian. Sorry so much
No problem Hagen ;) I've just looked for my G.peshmenii and can't see a thing, but the second scape on the Tilebarn Jamie is now beginning to elongate :D
Thanks for merging us all Maggie, I din't feel a thing ::)
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Thanks for merging us all Maggie, I din't feel a thing
Oh, dear, I must be losing my touch :o :P ;) Mother warned me this would happen :'(
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WooHoo! It's started.
Nothing here yet that I am aware of - time to get on my hands and knees.
John
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Hi John, welcome back.
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Indeed John you have been sorely missed :)
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Well, John, now we know what tempts you out of your retreat - snowdrops!
Good to have you back.
Paddy
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Hi Rob, the fun is not whose galanthus are the first, it was my fault/blunder/error. The question is, what blooms this year before winter. My winter every year too long. I short him from both sides.
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The question is, what blooms this year before winter. My winter every year too long. I short him from both sides.
Yes, Hagen, that is what we are doing too, making winter shorter! That is why narcissus and crocus are so good for us!
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Maggi, we begin to dreaming (and waiting)for our snowdrops. I`m glad, to have the same language with a lot of forummembers. You are able to filter unnessesery disharmony (thank you for your still doing). Today I swaped a lot of Crocus banaticus. We have not only our "Galanthusheaven". The world has much more colors!
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I do prefer the colours,though, Hagen.... if I was looking forward to white then I could be happy with the snow ... snowdrop white is TOO much like winter!! :-X ;)
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Here now with sun ;D
for this autumn season my first open :
Galanthus regina olgae f. corcyrensis
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A very nice start to your season.
I have a pot of snowdrops - unknown, but either peshmenii or reginae-olgae - that should be in bloom next week.
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Super Hans, no sign of it yet for me, despite the sun! 8)
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Super Hans, no sign of it yet for me, despite the sun! 8)
Now don't be greedy Brian, you have had the pleasure of 'Tilebarn Jamie' in flower for nearly two weeks :)
Not a sign of anything yet in my southerly garden, not even a nose or two sticking through!
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Indeed I have Chris, just wondering why that started off so early when the others have yet to come ;)
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just wondering why that started off so early when the others have yet to come ;)
Brian, I too was greatly intrigued as to why your 'Tilebarn Jamie' should have burst into full flower in the first half of September - the only answer I could come up with was through a combination of location & how you were growing it.
You were growing it in a lattice pot in shade by the side of your house, where it was not only naturally colder than other parts of your garden because of the lack of sunshine but with the cold & wet weather we were having it was even colder than normal (particularly at night). Being in a pot, rather than in the ground, it would have been more sensitive to this colder temperature & this probably tricked 'Tilebarn Jamie' into thinking that it was autumn & kick started it early out of its dormancy.
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Chris, an excellent explanation, I feel sure you must be correct. It probably won't happen again! Many thanks.
Brian 8)
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Not sure what happened here - possibly I bought some bulbs at a plant sale that were incorrectly labelled.
Certainly not Sternbergia, and it will be interesting to see if they are peshmenii or reginae-olgae. I think it was a bargain even though not what I thought I had bought. :) ;) :)
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Life is full of surprises Art !!
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Art -wow :o :o :o
it seems you have new species of Sternbergia ???
is this maybe Stern. candida autumn flowering form ::)
Congratulation
Hans 8)
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A VIRIDAPICE of the autumn season
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I do see the first one's in flower, i just planted the last today.
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Thought, an autumn flowering Snowdrop with green tips and bright green inner tepales would be a plant of interest? No joke, the pic is from yesterday.
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Gerard, fields of Snowdrops in my garden. It`s my dream the whole long winter!
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Well, Hagen, it was of interest to ME! 8)
I meant to ask you, but went off to something else ( :-[) if such a flower was rare? I thought these greentips were from the spring-flowering type??
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Hagan, fingers crossed for next year! Hopefully it will stay green tipped. There is a green-tipped flower in the snowdrop book.
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Sorry Hagen,
I was so busy yesterday, that i forgot to give a reply on that very beautiful green tipped autumn flowering snowdrop.
I hope too it stays the same next year, but this one is not flowering for the first time is it?
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Very nice addition to Autumn flowering snowdrops Hagen. ;D How's the twin-scaling coming along?
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May I offer you a little bit more autumn green?
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Brian, my first twin-scaling is on the way. In four of five bags I can see the miniballs of new bulbs. It`s crazy, I`m happy. I`m thankful for the help of srgc-forum-members ;)
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Mark, fingers crossed for this year! We have a good translation of the snowdropbook. So I`m reading more in german as looking in english. Thank you for your tip, I believe you means a Jackie Murray`s G r.o. My snowdrops have a peshmenii-background.
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Hagen i forgot to tell that those fields were on the right Trym, South Hayes and Primrose Warburg, the middle all Lady Elphinstone, and the one on the left all Elwesii Big Boy ;D
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Hagan that truely is a stunning snowdrop
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Speaking of twin-scaling/chipping, thanks, Mark, for the tip about putting the tops of the cut bulbs in the chipping bag along with the chips (I think it was you said that someone you know has been doing this successfully).
I popped the cut-off tops (throughly cleaned-up) of the bulbs in with the chips, and (out of about 40-50 bags done this year) it looks like about half have made little bulblets on the severed bulb tops as well as the chips.
The bulblets on the bulb tops are all much smaller than on the chips with basal plate material (in fact, usually quite tiny) but nonethless will give an extra bonus crop of bulblets in due course.
It seems that some snowdrop clones are more prone to producing these non-basal bulblets than others, as one bag of particular clone will have a high success rate while the next bag of a different clone will have none at all. Maybe (I haven't looked at the possibility too closely yet) the clones that readily produce non-basal bulblets are ones that are genetically more inclined to split and divide naturally?
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Speaking of twin-scaling/chipping, thanks, Mark, for the tip about putting the tops of the cut bulbs in the chipping bag along with the chips (I think it was you said that someone you know has been doing this successfully).
Martin - Colin Mason & Rod Leeds have been bagging the 'tops' for a number of years now but, to the best of my knowledge, neither of them has then potted up the 'tops' separately from the rest of the chips.
I am keen to prove beyond doubt that the 'tops' do actually produce viable, flower producing bulbs so, as I think that I mentioned earlier this year, it would be good to have you pot up some of the tops separately and to monitor their performance. Colin is kindly experimenting in this way for me with a few snowdrops.
By the way, you mention that the bulblets on the bulb 'tops' are usually quite tiny - Colin always refers to them as 'pips', rather than bulbils/bulblets, which I think aptly describes their much smaller size.
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Chris I'll keep an eye on some of the tops that I did too and let you know in due course.
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Brian - many thanks - it would be good to keep a record of how many pips there are on the 'tops' when potted up, so that they can be compared later with the number of bulbs which, hopefully we will prove, that they generate.
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If you don't cut of the tops, the extra energy in it can be used for the new to form bulblets, they will grow even bigger. And the succesrate is also higher.
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Rob, I think Gerard was joking about all those rare snowdrops. I think the beds are full off crocus.
Chris, I'll try to remember to pot some tops with pips (good word!) separately and make a note of the number of pips, check on development and let you know the results. Was it you that originally mentioned bagging the tops? I thought it was Mark, but the memory's not what it used to be!
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Rob
My Eleni is also just up - will be interesting to compare the flowers.
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Martin, Rob
My english isn`t the best, but I think Gerard hasn`t told us the whole truth. When he has such fields of rarities, than he has also at least one line of ECUSSON DÒR. 8)
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Chris, I'll try to remember to pot some tops with pips (good word!) separately and make a note of the number of pips, check on development and let you know the results. Was it you that originally mentioned bagging the tops?
Martin - it would be good if you (and Brian) monitored the development of some of your 'tops'! Yes, it was me :o
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Yes, it was me :o
Apologies, Chris. Memory playing tricks on me. Thanks for the tip. Previously I just threw away the bulb tops. Which demonstrates a distinct lack of logical thinking on my part, as I had noted tiny bulbils forming halfway up scales, so had realised you didn't always need basal plate to get a new bulbil - but hadn't made the lateral jump to bagging the tops. Stupid, eh?! :(
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Oh no Martin they are Galanthus, flore pleno, viridapice and single nivalis, maybe in the near future this will change. ;D
I do have some succes with twinscaling, in the laboratory we do have a average of 20 from 1 bulb, and that is not a yoke.
Hagen if you want some Ecusson,( about 20), just send me one! ;D
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Rob
I was overoptimistic - think it will be tuesday before the flower opens.
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Its the last day of sunshine and it has brought out my first G.reginae olgae.
Eleni has not opened with me yet
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Rob, any bulb can be used. I twinscaled Wasp, and that is a very tiny bulb, but i got 22 bulblets out of it.
They are on a growingmedium now, and when they have reached a size of 5mm i will plant them.
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heres eleni as promised .... as you can see from the pic its on a very short scape
Rob - this often happens with reginae-olgae, especially when the weather/the soil is dry - you should find that the scape will soon start to elongate and gradually grow to its full size, particularly if you help it by watering your pot.
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Rob you can twinscale the whole year trough.
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Here are some shots of Galanthus peshmenii and newly emerged reginae-olgae.
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ok art and tony, i look forward to when your eleni are open and we can compare flowers, i will be intrested to know how tall the scapes are with yours!
Rob
my Eleni has opened on a scape about 12cms high. The only difference I can see between it and my other reginae olgae is that the flower is smaller. It is its first year with me and maybe it will be larger next year.It has been well watered and so its small size is not because it is suffering.
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Guess what I have done... I have a feeling I have done this and posted about it for the last few years..... I forgot that Tilebarn Jamie flowers quite this early! I have just moved a potted palm and found a hidden 11 flowers & buds of T.J. all munched. I have the odd petal remaining but the best of the early display has been slugged! >:(
A word of warning to us all...... (get the blue pellets out (sorry! I try to avoid chemicals except for the snowies. (you should see that state of my mini hostas!))
But it is great to know that they are popping up here also already. ;D
John
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I have just moved a potted palm
As you do!!! ;) 8) We don't have to move potted palms up here.... they all run away to warmer climes of their own accord :-X
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A word of warning to us all...... (get the blue pellets out (sorry! I try to avoid chemicals except for the snowies. (you should see that state of my mini hostas!))
John
John I didn't know, that Viagra also helps snowies and hostas to stand up 8) ;D
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I have just moved a potted palm and found a hidden 11 flowers & buds of T.J. all munched.
A bit excessive John, surely you could have kept them on the drier side another way ;D
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No sign of mine just now but I know slugs ate them last year. Pellets are down anyway to protect Colchicums and Galanthus
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Galanthus Peshmenii "Kastellorizo Form " Rix 4010
My first Autumn galanthus to flower.
This Island form flowers with the leaves and has a very nice scent.
No sign of any other Autumn species as yet including the more normal Peshmenii form.
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Eric a very nice G. Peshmenii.
I have attached a picture of a pot of mine from which I hope you can see that of the seven plants visible one has well developed leaves , with two they are just showing and the other four are flowering with none, so I do not think this is a distinctive characteristic. I cannot comment on the scent as I have a very poor sense of smell and I have some biarums out in the greenhouse at the same time.When I have been at Kas I have never plucked up courage to pop over to Kastellorhizo and look for them in the wild
I have also attached a picture of G. reginae olgae which is also open.
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Looks to me there are 2 or 3 different one's in your pot with Peshmenii Tony. They are dark green and bigger, and the green drawing on the innerpetals looks different.
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Gerard
I am not sure what you mean about different ones. They are all peshmenii just different variations. I have never been able to get a pot of bulbs to produce there flowers all together and the same height.
Here is a picture of them in the wild which shows a bit of variation,it brightens up a cold wet evening just to think about them.
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These wild one's are all beautys Tony and all the same, weren't you tempted to take one with you for your collection? ;D
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Here is a picture of them in the wild which shows a bit of variation,it brightens up a cold wet evening just to think about them.
Not only beauty's but they appear to have green tips.
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yes I see they do appear to have green tips. I think it is a bit overwhelming when they are enmasse and difficult to pick out individuals.It must just have been that clump. Here are a few more in a general view and a closeup without the green tips.
No sorry I did not collect one.
I am back there in a couple of weeks and will try to be more observant and take more pictures
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The inner green marks on the wild clump are much more regular than in your potful, Tony.
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Maggie that is true but I think the clumps in the wild may be all the same clone whilst mine are individual ones. Clearly the great one in the sky is also a much better grower than me too as the plants are much better.
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I think we'd all be dropping such hints to Tony ;D Glad your Tilebarn Jamie is getting going, mine still has it's second flower and another bud has just broken the surface so will have been in flower for a good few weeks by the time it is completely over as it started on the 7th September. What I consider value for money ;)
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Tony, thanks for this pics - it seems to be a famous rock ;-) - please have a look here:
http://forum.garten-pur.de/index.php?board=24;action=display;threadid=21032;start=msg606283#msg606283
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Tony, thanks for this pics - it seems to be a famous rock ;-) - please have a look here:
http://forum.garten-pur.de/index.php?board=24;action=display;threadid=21032;start=msg606283#msg606283
Why, yes, Hans, this is the very same rock! Fancy that!
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Hans
I think you are right,it certainly looks like it.I have been three times and only once was the rock covered in flowers.It is not a large area where they are found at this site but it is easy to get to.
I can only reiterate,in spite of the hints-I did not collect it! My interest is in an overall view of the flowers and I have to say it was only when I put the picture on the forum and it was pointed out I noticed the green bits,sorry.
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I get a mention on that web site ;D
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9 month after the big performance of MERLIN these little flowers blooms here. Possible, we will call them MERLIN`S AUTUMN CHILD.
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9 month after the big performance of MERLIN these little flowers blooms here. Possible, we will call them MERLIN`S AUTUMN CHILD.
Very nice, Hagen. Is that a reginae-olgae form?
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Very attractive Hagen ;)
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Martin, Brian, it a peshmenii form.
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that is an excellent find for whoever discovered it
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At this year's bulb sale I bought some reginae-olgae bulbs, £5 for 5 small daughter bulbs, and although small all are flowering. They have an unusual green mark
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Galanthus regnae-olgae in my garden.
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Looking very good, Franz.... and I see you have some nice sunshine, too!
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not the best photo but here is one of the bulbs from the bulb sale
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Franz, I`m dreaming for such big groups of autumn snowdrops!
Mark, oh yes the way is free for much more (green)marked autumn drops!
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Hello from Austria,
Is this plant peshmenii?
All the best from Linz
Herbert
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Looks more like reginae-olgae.
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Hi all ,
here start with flowers some autumn flowering G. elwesii !
some cultivars like 'Peter Gatehouse' , 'Barnes' , and unnamed .....
Hans
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Hi all ,
here start with flowers some autumn flowering G. elwesii !
some cultivars like 'Peter Gatehouse' , 'Barnes' , and unnamed .....
Hans
Photos ???
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Thomas : please send me better weather ....with sun please !
Rob : I would be really glad if you could write correct plant names ;D"
I know some of the younger people today will write all with small letters and many abbreviations -but this will give a lot of misunderstandings ....
Please remember the discussion about latin plantnames ....maybe we speak not all correct latin - but we should try to use correct names to write .
Are you sure that your plant is a G. plicatus 'Colossus' ? I have never seen a G. plicatus so early.
I'm not if all this named cultivars of Gal. reg. olgae are so good - it seems there is for me not big differences .....I think this plants like 'Vasiliki' ,'Eleni','Sofia' and more came all from the same population...
I'm maybe not the right person to criticise you because my english is really bad ....but I try always to follow the old motto of plantcollectors :
In minimo quoque fidelis
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No problem Rob !
Here is a little help :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Code_of_Botanical_Nomenclature
here for cultivars :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Code_of_Nomenclature_for_Cultivated_Plants
If you look there so you have to write : Galanthus plicatus ' Colossus' ( collosus is wrong ) - same is for 'Tilebarn Jamie' and so ....
I hope this helps a bit ;)
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Rob ,
we all have to learn -each day ;D
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Just beginning to flower and looking OK G reg olgae Cambridge
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Ian,
Lovely clumps of snowdrops, looking so very well which is a surprise to me as I imagine weather conditions are so miserable that anything that can stand up and bloom so very well, clean petals etc, is a great bonus. No wonder snowdrops are so popular.
Re the accurate naming of plants, discussed above, for the last six years I have been newsletter editor for the Irish Garden Plant Society (very like the National Council for the Conservation of Plants and Gardens in the UK) and, in my early days in the position, regularly drew the comments and guidance of an ex taxonomist of the National Botanic Gardens in Glasnevin, Dublin. Regular correspondence with this gentleman has led me to appreciate the extreme importance of correct naming and correct use of the naming procedures. Sloppy naming, even in the casual exchanges of this forum, are really a danger to accuracy and can lead to several plants carrying the same name, a big muddle in other words. It is worth taking the time to write the names properly.
Paddy
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Paddy can you give examples?
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Mark,
Trying to think of a good example among snowdrops, as it is a snowdrop thread...
An Irish example would be Galanthus ' Cicely Hall' which is also in distribution as G. 'The Whopper', G. 'Helen Dillon's Whopper'. Only G. 'Cicely Hall' is correct.
And, continuing with Primrose Hill snowdrops, there are snowdrops being listed as G. 'Primrose Hill Special', even G. 'Primrose Hill Special No. 1', 'No.2', 'No 3' and 'No 4'. Neither Mrs. Hall nor her son Mr. Robin Hall ever named any snowdrop as 'Primrose Hill Special'. The name arose because Mrs. Hall liked to give visitors a keepsake of their visit and would habitually say, "Here's a 'Primrose Hill Special' for you." These 'Primrose Hill Specials' were simply snowdrops grown from their seed in hopes of something interesting arising but it was never their intention to name any snowdrop 'Primrose Hill Special'. Indeed, Robin finds it quite annoying that the name is being used in this manner; he thinks it silly carry on, something that snowdrop tickers like to do - name more and more snowdrops even when the plants do not deserve to be named at all.
Another is the confusion between G. 'Drummond Giant' and G. 'Drummond's Giant' - just a slight and understandable difference but an inaccuracy which can creep in so very easily.
Similarly, you have a snowdrop doing the rounds as G. 'Romeo' though the original 'Romeo' is almost certainly extinct but someone (I don't know who and mean no offence) found a nice snowdrop and decided that 'Romeo' would be a nice name, not realising that the name had already been used and that the original plant takes naming preference and the name cannot be used again for another snowdrop.
Although it can be a bit of a nuisance, it really is worth while submitting any 'new' bulb for assessment to a taxonomist at one's nearest botanic garden where it will be grown on for a few years and compared with other recorded snowdrops to check that it is really different and deserving of a name. The temptation is, of course, to simply put a name on a snowdrop which is special to one and I imagine that for anyone selling snowdrops the temptation might be greater as a new name will sell more snowdrops than an old one.
Hope these examples illustrate my point. Paddy
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Beginner questions :
- how do you differentiate Galanthus reginae-olgae from G. peshmenii ? Is the second one more difficult in the garden, as I lost the bulb I ordered some years ago ?
- what is the origine of G. elwesii 'Barnes' ? Someone wrote G. elwesii hiemalis 'Barnes' : is it correct ?
Thanks for your explanations ;)
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Matt Bishop et al write Galanthus elwesii Hiemalis Group 'Barnes'.
According Matt Bishop et all EP Barnes bought bulbs from Barrs in 1928 and selected this early flowering form. He then sent some toOliver Wyatt who named in 'Earliest of All. Modern stock of 'Barnes' after '73 from Oliver Wyatt's last home where they were labelled 'Barnes'. Rod Leeds growth both forms side by side and says 'Earliest of All ' flowers three weeks earlier
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Here's one of my Hiemalis Group that are eager to flower. Three in the group are in various stages of flowering. It simply goes under the name chubby flowers. An online dictionary says chubby = sufficiently fat so as to have a pleasing fullness of figure
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Here's one of my Heimalis
You may have done that just to stir Paddy up Mark, but it is Hiemalis 8)
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Sorted! I have a bad cold and cough.
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Ah, Brian, Paddy wouldn't be too bothered. After a day reading children's work the writings on the forum are not such as trouble me.
Yes, I do feel it is inappropriate to write the names incorrectly but a certain level of informality is acceptable on the forum and most people will know what the writer has in mind. Careless spelling and sloppy naming can be irksome but, in the general run of life, are only a minor nuisance.
On the other hand, the naming of plants of insignificant distinction is something I consider a travesty and snowdrops have particularly been prey to this practice. Some do it, it seems to me, for the reputation of having 'discovered' a new snowdrops. To those I would say that putting their name to a nondescript snowdrops adds nothing good to their reputation. To those who do it to boost sales I would say that they are shameless blackguards.
Here in Ireland, one snowdrop enthusiast named a snowdrop to commemorate a good friend who had passed on some good snowdrops to him. A friend who is very informed on snowdrops wondered why he had chosen such an indifferent snowdrops to remember his friend. A case of damning with faint praise, I suppose.
Naming is best done rarely and then after consultation with a taxonomist.
Paddy
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Galanthus 'Cambridge' and G. corcyrensis flower buds have just appeared above ground here in the last few days.
johnw
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Actually, Rob, it wasn't you or your 'Romeo' that I had in mind. In fact, it had not even come to my attention. No, there are other 'Romeo's doing the rounds as well. Which shows what a nuisance can be created by giving a bulb a name.
Paddy
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Re. snowdrop naming, I was thinking the other day that while it's reasonable to say that if a new snowdrop is being considered for naming it should look distinct, there could also be a case for naming a new snowdrop because it's much more disease resistant and stronger growing than existing cultivars which may be similar in appearance.
For example, there might be a similar-looking old cultivar in commerce which is sickly, prone to disease and difficult to keep going in the garden ('miffy', in a single word). Surely there's a good argument for naming a new cultivar which looks similar but is a massively better garden plant? Otherwise, how would the new (much better) plant ever get into commerce and become widely grown, as it deserves to be.
It just seemed to be that to concentrate purely on the looks of a new plant re. suitability for naming (while obviously very important) and ignoring garden worthiness, disease resistance, and speed of increase, might be a mistake. Yet the guidance on naming new plants always seems to concentrate almost exclusively on the plant looking very different to what's already being grown.
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Martin,
You make an excellent point but one will still be left with confusion as plants are generally, indeed almost exclusively, judged on their appearance.
Paddy
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Gal. 'Sutton Court' doesn't do well for me, unfortunately. The way I was thinking, Paddy, was that if (for example) someone raised a snowdrop that looked very much like 'John Gray' but which had a stronger flower stem, was more disease resistant and clumped up very fast, there might initially be some potential for confusion between the two, but the vigour and fast increase of the new one would make it stand out in gardens, and eventually most people would end up growing the new one and the old variety would fade away, except in a few specialists' gardens. Which is how it works with most other plants.
I don't think you can avoid some confusion if new varieties of any plant are being raised and sold, and replacing previous less good varieties. But you have to move on in plant breeding or eventually the plants being grown get weaker and less growable, more prone to disease etc and disappoint. Probably a lot of it is down to how experienced the grower's eye is. There are plenty of less experienced gardeners who'd have a lot of trouble separating exisiting snowdrops like, say, 'John Gray' and 'Fieldgate Superb'. And I'm sure I couldn't separate the vast majority of trumpet daffs.
I think, as I've said before, and you've said before, a large part of the problem is that less experienced snowdrop growers will often 'find' and name something they think of as new and distinct without enough experience of what's already been selected and named - because that's always been part of the 'traditions' of snowdrop collecting; that every little tiny distinction warrants a name.
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I agree, Martin, that plants with improved vigour should be nameable. Let's face it, apart from some extremes such as 'Trym', the existing varieties must just about cover most morphological variation, especially if variability due to individual garden microclimates is taken into account.
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I agree, Martin, that plants with improved vigour should be nameable. Let's face it, apart from some extremes such as 'Trym', the existing varieties must just about cover most morphological variation, especially if variability due to individual garden microclimates is taken into account.
I didn't want to go on too much about it, Anne, but I did also think that most of the basic variations in snowdrop flowers (apart from the freakier ones, and I'm not sure how much further anyone would want to go with developing those) have probably already been selected and named, and if those variations in flower shape and markings can never be repeated in new cultivars (no matter how much more vigorous and better as garden plants) then where do we go? The alternative is to just grow the ones we have until they become so decrepit as garden plants that they die out or people stop bothering to grow them.
I feel that snowdrops would be grown far more widely (and give far more pleasure to more people) if so many of them weren't decidedly 'miffy' as garden plants. So increased vigour and disease resistance seem to me to be at least as important as appearance, at least with this particular genus for general garden purposes.
Personally, I prefer the classic snowdrop flower shape to the oddities, so my breeding aim is really improvement in that direction, of classic (mainly single) flower shape and form and marking (e.g. very dark, eye-catching markings, full rounded petals etc, along with strength of flower stem for weather resistance and mud avoidance, disease resistance, vigour and speed of increase.
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Martin,
Isn't it a pity that these 'miffy' snowdrops were given a name in the first place? Of course, I realise that some plants which started off as good healthy and good-growing plants may have declined because of virus infection or some such problem and originally did deserved to be named.
Paddy
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Martin,
Isn't it a pity that these 'miffy' snowdrops were given a name in the first place? Of course, I realise that some plants which started off as good healthy and good-growing plants may have declined because of virus infection or some such problem and originally did deserved to be named.
Paddy
Indeed. In the past a lot of snowdrops have, in my opinion anyway, been named without enough thought to how good they were as garden plants (how vigorous, how disease resistant, how weather-resistant) as well as to whether they were distinct enough from existing cultivars.
One of the major problems I suppose is that to start with there just weren't many different snowdrops around when people started collecting them, so (like native ferns in Victorian times) almost every variant was selected out and given a name. Also, most named snowdrops were never deliberately bred and selected for good garden atributes. They were chance finds, often in old gardens, and were often already very old clumps when discovered, so in some cases already suffering from old age and so prone to disease. Of course that doesn't mean some of them aren't lovely snowdrops, just that some of them can be a bit of a challenge to grow and keep going, which may be fine for the keenest growers but can be a bit problematic for the general gardening public.
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In the past a lot of snowdrops have, in my opinion anyway, been named without enough thought to how good they were as garden plants (how vigorous, how disease resistant, how weather-resistant) as well as to whether they were distinct enough from existing cultivars.
One of the major problems I suppose is that to start with there just weren't many different snowdrops around when people started collecting them, so (like native ferns in Victorian times) almost every variant was selected out and given a name. Also, most named snowdrops were never deliberately bred and selected for good garden atributes. They were chance finds, often in old gardens, and were often already very old clumps when discovered, so in some cases already suffering from old age and so prone to disease. Of course that doesn't mean some of them aren't lovely snowdrops, just that some of them can be a bit of a challenge to grow and keep going, which may be fine for the keenest growers but can be a bit problematic for the general gardening public.
Martin
Just to illustrate your point, the Database that I maintain of named snowdrops that are NOT listed in the 'Snowdrops' book has now grown to c. 800 named forms & counting (today alone I added 15 new names).
When one considers that the 'Snowdrops' book, which was first published only 7 years ago, only listed c. 500 named forms, this is a phenomenal increase in numbers and, of course, the true figure of newly named forms has got to be even higher because I cannot possibly have unearthed all of them, try as hard as I might ::).
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Martin,
Unfortunately, the practice continues to this day. For example, recently an old garden was sold as a site for redevelopment. It had many clumps of snowdrops which had been growing there for many years. With best intentions, many of these snowdrops were rescued but then, unfortunately, were named after the garden. I have received some bulbs but only at the end of last season and haven't seen them in flower yet. However, until then I am presuming that they are simply some already named snowdrop to which another name has been applied. Now, the chances of unmuddling the confusion that this may cause are very slim indeed.
Again, there is a snowdrop here in Ireland which was distributed from a Miss Rita Rutherfoord but which had never been officially named. Those who had it generally labelled it as 'ex Rita Rutherfoord'. Well, this is how I had seen it labelled several times. Unfortunately, Miss Rutherfoord died this spring but had given me a good clump of the snowdrops only a fortnight before her death. After her death, the executors of her will contacted me and offered me more of the bulbs. I distributed the bulbs to several people and gardens only to find some people already had them and that they were being called 'Lady Moore'. In the company of her mother, Rita Rutherfoord had received them from Lady Moore, wife of Sir Frederick, Curator of the Botanic Gardens, Glasnevin, Dublin, around 1940 on the steps of the Mansion House in Dublin - Miss Rutherfoord had written to me to give me her account of receiving these bulbs and how she had kept them going since then. Now, before her death, she had expressed a wish that a particular name be applied to the snowdrop, one that would remind people of her part in keeping this bulb going for over 60 years. Unfortunately, or not maybe, the name 'Lady Moore' is well in circulation at this stage and Miss Rutherfoord's wishes are unlikely to be fulfilled. Although she asked me to apply this new name I will not now do so as it would simply lead to confusion with the same plant doing the rounds under three names.
The snowdrops from Rita Rutherfoord, originally from Lady Moore, is most likely distinctive - I have only observed it for one year in my own garden - while the other snowdrop is new to me and I will see how it does this year.
Paddy
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Here is Galanthus peshmenii flowering in the greenhouse today.
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Mine are almost over, outside in a trough, but the last one to open is my special one. It's albino again
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Well, now that I've taken a photo it's not quite an albino Galanthus peshmenii. Also here's an elegant reginae-olgae
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I had three in a trough last year. One has bravely appeared this year, but it hasn't opened yet.
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Anthony my peshmenii are multiplying in the trough but failing in pots
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Matt Bishop et al write Galanthus elwesii Hiemalis Group 'Barnes'.
According Matt Bishop et all EP Barnes bought bulbs from Barrs in 1928 and selected this early flowering form. He then sent some toOliver Wyatt who named in 'Earliest of All. Modern stock of 'Barnes' after '73 from Oliver Wyatt's last home where they were labelled 'Barnes'. Rod Leeds growth both forms side by side and says 'Earliest of All ' flowers three weeks earlier
Thank you Mark. Finally, is 'Barnes' clearly a clone, or a selected strain for the Barnes' garden ? I'm not absoluty certain to have understood...
Moreover, here are two plants from Czech Republic I have for years. One was bought as G. r-o. ssp. r-o ex Taygetos Mts (the big flower), the other one as G. r-o. ssp. vernalis from Epiros, which is clearly not as it is in flower now. I compared the two plants ; foliage is similar and begins to grow, greyish out, green with grey line in : what do you think about the identities ?
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Hello,
my Galanthus reginae-olgae is just starting to begin to flower. Usually it is even later, but we had already very cold days. It is a very good grower, the group was started from 4 bulbs and I have given many away.
All the best from Linz
Pauli
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Moreover, here are two plants from Czech Republic I have for years. One was bought as G. r-o. ssp. r-o ex Taygetos Mts (the big flower), the other one as G. r-o. ssp. vernalis from Epiros, which is clearly not as it is in flower now. I compared the two plants ; foliage is similar and begins to grow, greyish out, green with grey line in : what do you think about the identities ?
Do you have a picture of the emerging leaves?
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Yes !
The two first ones are from the Epiros plant, and the last one from the Taygetos Mts plant : does it help you ?
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Hello,
my Galanthus reginae-olgae is just starting to begin to flower. Usually it is even later, but we had already very cold days. It is a very good grower, the group was started from 4 bulbs and I have given many away.
All the best from Linz
Pauli
Very fine !
Do you know the origin of the plant Pauli ?
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Very fine !
Do you know the origin of the plant Pauli ?
[/quote]
Hello Biodiversite!
Unfortunately I have no idea where it comes from. :(
All the best from Linz
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Pauli,
A lovely clump of snowdrops and nice cyclamen in the bed as well.
All the best to Linz.
Paddy
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Herbert, that is a fine clone of reginae-olgae. I have had nothing but leaves this year, so far. :(
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Yes !
The two first ones are from the Epiros plant, and the last one from the Taygetos Mts plant : does it help you ?
No it doesn't.
Could the small one be a wrongly identified peshmenii. They are generally smaller.
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:'(
Would you be able to tell me what are the main differences between the two species ? It seems to me very obscur...
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here is G.elwesii var.Hiemalis 'Hollis' -
im not to sure why this one was named as i cant really see any difference between this and regular G.elwesii var.Hiemalis?
Rob - I believe that this is g. elwesii var. monostictus 'Hollis', which was named by Dr Dowling Munro - before this it was informally circulated as g. elwesii 'Hollis Early Form' - apart from flowering early, I am told that most bulbs produce two flowers, a few weeks apart.
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Thanks for re-posting, Rob! :D
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You say silkmoth caterpillar Rob. Was it an escapee? What species? Don't know any that would eat snowdrops.
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this is the first time i have found one inside a galanthus flower.
(they seem to go for developing flowers in bud)
I presume that in a rapidly developing flower there is lots of natural suger and general good calorific value for these pests to eat and enjoy ?
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Ah I see Rob. Silkmoths belong to the Saturniidae and the only British species is the emperor moth (Saturnia pavonia).
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first of the Galanthus elwesii 'Barnes' out today
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Cutting back plants and annuals in my raised beds revealed way too many Galanthus noses above ground already.
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My G cilicicus in flower at the moment.
I have a number of species showing but think they will just hold back and flower in the spring.
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Hi All
you are probably used to me disapearing for my Summer of jungle plants - well most of those have now been lagged for the Winter and my thoughts turn to snowdrops. 8)
Nothing that exciting here yet - but here are a couple of pictures so that I feel I am joining in.
Late flowers on 'Tilebarn Jamie' - I lost all the early ones to slug damage but thankfully this one give extra flowers per bulb ;D
[attach = 1]
And the next will be 'Hyde Lodge'
[attach = 2]
As many people have said already - far too many others are revealing their muzzles :-\
cheers all
John
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My G cilicicus in flower at the moment.
I have a number of species showing but think they will just hold back and flower in the spring.
That's a new one to me Tony. Lovely. :)
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John I recognise the writing on the label that is stuck in the pot of 'Hyde Lodge'. I was disappointed with their snowdrops this year so may not order again
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John I recognise the writing on the label that is stuck in the pot of 'Hyde Lodge'. I was disappointed with their snowdrops this year so may not order again
hi Mark
I was disapointed in a few places sending things last year - the offerings seem to get smaller each year from the major players. When I queried this I was sent a letter basically saying "we offer rare stuff no matter what size - it is up to you as a grower to keep it alive!" That was my first thought at not buying much this year. Then becoming a single person paying the bills earlier in the year has been the deciding factor in my not being able to afford any new ones 2008/2009.
John
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We are covered under the Consumer Act or whatever it is called. We should complain more when bulbs dont do especially when we pay pay top prices for what turns out to be a non flowering twin scale/bulbil.
'Peter Gatehouse' is now open and fosteri is above ground.
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i fear i wont have much of a display for next year if things keep up :(
Rob - I think that we all have to accept that, with constantly changing weather patterns, we can no longer predict with any certainty what will be the flowering times for the different forms of snowdrop - just enjoy them when they do come up ;D
The colder than usual weather in October, with unseasonally early frosts, seems to have triggered many of the 'later' snowdrops into active growth e.g. in my garden I have flowering at the moment G. plicatus 'Three Ships - in 2004 this flowered nearly 2 months later, on 30th December, but has got earlier each year since.
I also have G. reginae-olgae subsp. vernalis 'Alex Duguid' in flower, which is described in the 'Snowdrops' book as 'Mr Duguid's Christmas flowering snowdrop'.
Others in flower at the moment include, G. plicatus 'Mary Hely-Hutchinson', G. cilicicus, G. transcaucasicus, (early form), together with the more usual G. reginae-olgae & G. peshmenii.
Rather curiously the early elwesii, like G. elwesii 'Peter Gatehouse' & G. elwesii Hiemalis Group 'Barnes', have only just emerged.
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My G cilicicus in flower at the moment.
Tony - this is still a little known, and consequently much under-rated snowdrop - the 'Snowdrops' book suggests that it is tender and therefore best grown in the coldframe/greenhouse, but I have been growing it in the open garden now for 5 years & it seems quite happy & increases well.
A super plant and a welcome addition as it helps to fill in the hole when the reginae-olgae start to die back and before the early elwesii really get going.
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Late flowers on 'Tilebarn Jamie' - I lost all the early ones to slug damage but thankfully this one give extra flowers per bulb ;D
John - delighted to see that the slugs did not get all of your 'Tilebarn Jamie' again ::). Like your 'Hyde Lodge' a good, reliable, performer.
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Chris
I have been growing it several years but keep it in an unheated greenhouse plunged in sand. I have no luck with autumn flowering plants outside as the flowers are eaten of at ground level by slugs. It seems hardy under my conditions where it does get frozen at times.
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My G cilicicus in flower at the moment.
Tony - this is still a little known, and consequently much under-rated snowdrop - the 'Snowdrops' book suggests that it is tender and therefore best grown in the coldframe/greenhouse, but I have been growing it in the open garden now for 5 years & it seems quite happy & increases well.
A super plant and a welcome addition as it helps to fill in the hole when the reginae-olgae start to die back and before the early elwesii really get going.
Chris, do you know a supplier of this species?
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Anthony - the only supplier that I know of in the UK is Norman Stevens of Cambridge Bulbs (I got mine from him at one of the AGS shows). Joachim Sixtus in Germany also used to sell it.
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Tony - encouraging to hear that G. cilicicus is hardy with you in Lancashire too - difficult to understand where its reputation for being tender came from.
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I spotted a fully open flower on G. elwesii 'Peter Gatehouse' in the garden today. As it struck me as being early I did a search of previous postings only to find Mark reported it in flower on 22nd October 2006, again with the comment that it was very early for his garden.
Paddy
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I seem to remember some time back someone asking what the difference was between Gg reginae-olgae and peshmenii. Is it a constant factor that as they go over, reginae-olgae scapes bend towards the horizontal, whereas in peshmenii they stay vertical?
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I have had a lone Galanthus reginae-olgae open over the weekend. It is in a west-facing bed. No sign of leaves and I will see how the scape behaves over the next few weeks.
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my G. peshmenii that appear to have been fertilised have bentover to the horizontal.
I saw one at weekend from Kastelorhizo that had pale green leaves and did not have a stripe down the leaves.
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Half of my peshmenii flower stems are lying down
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my G. peshmenii that appear to have been fertilised have bentover to the horizontal.
I saw one at weekend from Kastelorhizo that had pale green leaves and did not have a stripe down the leaves.
tony, could that peshmenii be a unusual variant like G.nivalis 'anglessey abbey'? i.e showing very green leaves without any vernation? i think anglessey abbey lacks any median stripe unlike regular nivalis (although not very prominant compared to reginae olgae).
Rob I understand this is its first season in its new homeland having been brought into captivity only last year and at this stage the leaves have only just started to grow so we shall have to see how it develops. I will see it again in the spring and hopefully next autumn to confirm its lack of a stripe.
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I was lucky to find a site for Galanthus reginae-olgae during my recent trip to the Peloponnese. I had been given some general directions - look along the banks of a stream ???
Due to a very dry season, streams were in short supply, but we decided that a dry river bed could be a possibility. We had walked about 200 yards , turned a corner and saw.... 8) :) 8)
Growing near the snowdrops were some scented Cyclamen
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Arthur - thanks for posting - lovely the way that the snowdrops have emerged through the undergrowth - the sun on that cyclamen gives it a gorgeous colour
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These pix make us feel as if we were there with you Art !! 8)
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Here are some pics from my first flowering Galanthus, lots of corms at the moment. Bill Bishop will flower soon
regina olgae and monostictus
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I'll slot in to this thread two Galanthus that should be flowering at Christmas.
G. elwesii monostictus chubby, aka fat, flowers but not what I would call chubby and G. elwesii 'Peter Gatehouse'.
Just added a couple photos of reginae-olgae 'Cambridge'. Despite added slug pellets about half of the flowers have been eaten
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I have two fairly ordinary forms of Galanthus reginae-olgae. The first flowers in August for a short period and likes a well drained sunny position. The second starts flowering in November and can still be flowering in February. It seems to grow anywhere. The spot I have it just now is open but gets no sun when the snowdrop is flowering. It is also fairly damp, but not boggy. The temperature was over 14C yesterday which opened up the flowers. I also noticed buds opening on much shorter stems than the ones which had been developing in cooler, duller weather.
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Never a good moment to ask this I suppose but looking at the picture of G. r-o 'Cambridge' and the 'ordinary' one from Roma what is the difference ?
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Tony, I think that you need to see them together (often the way with snowdrops) G.r-o Cambridge seems a little more sturdy and less delicate looking, although everyone says about the mark, I can't see a lot of difference :o
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Brian thanks for that answer.
I have sixty + clones of G. r-o and before asking the question I went out and pulled a selection of flowers off and compared them with the pictures, in particular the mark. I thought the answer would lie there, but I could see only marginal differences so I suppose the answer actually lies in the price.
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Brian thanks for that answer.
I have sixty + clones of G. r-o and before asking the question I went out and pulled a selection of flowers off and compared them with the pictures, in particular the mark. I thought the answer would lie there, but I could see only marginal differences so I suppose the answer actually lies in the price.
sixty + clones ...... good grief!! Tony, that is evidence of a serious addiction..... send me your postal address, some good chocolate may help ease the condition ::) ;)
Roma, how lovely to see the well advanced buds on your Hellebore in the background to your Galanthus pix......my Aunt in Muir of Fowlis has hers budding and flowering at this time every year, but even those taken into town won't do the same here! :-\
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Yes it's the overall shape of the flower that doesnt come across in a photo. It's quite a chunky selection. From the book
'Cambridge' was the first named cultivar of this species ... by it's overall quality. This is a snowdrop of hearty constitution and not fragile in appearance. The outer segments are thickly textured and prominently ridged. The scent, that I havent noticed, perfectly matched wallflowers Erysimum
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Maggie only because I have raised them from seed and cannot plant them in the garden because of slugs. I therefore have them in four pots of varied size and shape (the plants not the pots)
I have been to the fridge and eaten a large lump of cadburys fruit and nut
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Tony, thank goodness to hear your cogent rationalisation and I concur that fruit and nut is very good in these circumstances. Seed raising is always to be applauded..... if you find a really good slug repellent that doesn't also kill you and the family, please pass it on! I am hoping for lots of frost this winter to freeze as many of the slugs snails and other chomping plant killers as possible...... Ian seems to be hoping for something similar as this room is currently just over 14 degrees :-\ :o
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So warm! Lesley has been in Hong Kong for a week and I have been living as a fuel poverty pensioner at an average of 11c and no hot water. I only put a bit of heat on when the orchids were looking sad.It was warmer outside in the greenhouse. Kept warm with lots of alcohol. The slugs are still in fine fettle and eating anything and everthing and the damp atmosphere means the botrytis is looking at its best.
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Tony, were you and Ian seperated at birth ? I discern many similarities between you two... bet Lesley's jolly happy to be getting some warmth in Hong Kong, bless her! :-X
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Tony will we get to see some of your reginae-olgae selections?
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mark
I posted a picture earlier on the thread about the 1st October but I only took the one so no more this year.They are just ones I grew from seed I collected on several trips to Greece over the years and although I like them I did not think to take more photographs.
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and although I like them I did not think to take more photographs.
The doctor is IN!...... as Lucy used to say in the Peanuts strip cartoon.....
see, Tony, the chocolate treatment even works retrospectively ... there is hope for you! :-*
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I was trying to be diplomatic and not say they all looked the same (to a none connoisseur)
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I was checking my pots of snowdrop seeds and noticed the ones I sowed in the spring have germinated well. Leaves 1 cm long.
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can anyone tell me if galanthus seeds germinate erraticly? as i have only found one so far in the pot i sowed this summer.
Yes, Galanthus seeds do often germinate erratically - you may well find that some of your seeds will not in fact germinate until next winter - by way of example, I had this with G. transcaucasicus where, last year, only 1 seed germinated but this year 5 seedlings have appeared.
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Hello,
my type of G. reginae-olgae still going strong (under rain protection), despite of our cold and rainy (tomorrow snowy) weather.
I think, I have a few to exchange next summer...
All the best from Austria
Herbert
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Wow, I've never seen so many
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Here is my first one of the season, Galanthus elwesii. Arthur was kind enough to send me some bulbs of elwesii last year (thanks very much Art) and told me one batch were quite early and the other batch was much later. This one is really early.
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Thanks for posting David - doesn't it give you a thrill when the first one of the season emerges :)
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Thanks for posting David - doesn't it give you a thrill when the first one of the season emerges :)
After a Summer like this year Chris I'm just grateful anything is still alive. ;D
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David - I must admit to a certain sense of relief this year, particularly with the reginae-olgae which really do not like the wet summers that we have been having - a combination of wet weather, but higher summer temperatures is, unfortunately, just the breeding ground for the nasty fungal diseases that attack snowdrops ::)
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my type of G. reginae-olgae still going strong (under rain protection), despite of our cold and rainy (tomorrow snowy) weather.
Herbert - the first of the bulbs that you sent me came into flower back in late September and others are still starting to flower now - a vigorous form, with a long flowering period.
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I know I posted a picture of Hyde Lodge when it was in bud - it is still my only one in flower at the moment so here is another snap of it with the flower open this week.
John :)
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Here is my first one of the season, Galanthus elwesii. Arthur was kind enough to send me some bulbs of elwesii last year (thanks very much Art) and told me one batch were quite early and the other batch was much later. This one is really early.
David
My early ones are also up - have been as early as November 1st. :)
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November 1st, Arthur? My word, England IS another place!
By the way, for you lovers of white things.... our whole world is white here... about three inches of the cold stuff.
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Goodness that is early Arthur, what a nice form to have to start the season off.
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I know I posted a picture of Hyde Lodge when it was in bud - it is still my only one in flower at the moment so here is another snap of it with the flower open this week.
John :)
Hi John. Sorry about this, but I don't think what you have there is reginae-olgae 'Hyde Lodge', which is a much chubbier flower with shorter, broader outer petals and a much more narrow, flatter mark, really just a thin line in the centre with wider ends, forming a very wide thin inverted V shape. I'll see if I can find a pic of 'Hyde Lodge' to post for comparison - unless Mark has one handy he can post? Mark? Can you help?
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John, here's a photo of Galanthus reginae-olgae 'Hyde Lodge' that I posted on the old forum. Not a great pic, but it does show the flower shape and mark clearly. Your flowers are too long and narrow in the petal and, as you can see, the shape of the mark is quite different.
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Oh, and the ovary of your flower is a different shape as well.
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Rob, have nipped outside to grab a few snowy shots... will post them soon in a new thread in the 'General' Section.
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Hi John. Sorry about this, but I don't think what you have there is reginae-olgae 'Hyde Lodge', which is a much chubbier flower with shorter, broader outer petals and a much more narrow, flatter mark, really just a thin line in the centre with wider ends, forming a very wide thin inverted V shape. I'll see if I can find a pic of 'Hyde Lodge' to post for comparison - unless Mark has one handy he can post? Mark? Can you help?
Oh dear! That is what the Snowdrop Company sent me last year for ten quid! >:(
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Must have been a mix-up. Ron is usually very good re. naming. I'll see if I can find a spare bulb for you.
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No photo from me but I bought it from the same source as John.
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No photo from me but I bought it from the same source as John.
So, is yours the same as John's ???
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mmmm, mine too, it's still in bud but I have my doubts :-\
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Must have been a mix-up. Ron is usually very good re. naming. I'll see if I can find a spare bulb for you.
To the best of my knowledge, Ronald Mackenzie is the only person selling this form, which he got from Herbert Ransom so, as Martin says, must have been a mix up.
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To the best of my knowledge, Ronald Mackenzie is the only person selling this form, which he got from Herbert Ransom so, as Martin says, must have been a mix up.
Yes, I think he is the only one selling it. Mine came originally from him many years ago.
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Mine have no flowers
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I also bought some bulbs of 'Hyde Lodge' from the Snowdrop Company last year and these have produced the characteristic chubby flowers, on quite tall scapes.
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Much to early this year is the first of my G. transcaucasicus and possible because they are in a pot. This summer they will move to a new raised bed
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Much to early this year is the first of my G. transcaucasicus and possible because they are in a pot. This summer they will move to a new raised bed
Mark - could this be an early form? I have had an early form of G. transcaucasicus in full flower since mid October, with G. transcaucasicus 'December Snow' coming into flower about 2 weeks ago (which, in spite of its name, consistently flowers in early November ::))
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my trancaucasicus is in the soil,not a pot,and not even showing it`s nose yet.
it flowers to the end of the season.
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Two that are showing above the ground in my border now are 'Colossus' and 'Benhall Beauty'. The former has a well-formed bud. Not far behind is 'South Hayes'.
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Lots of sprouts above the ground here also except the very late ones.
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Gerard, is it normal for the netherlands ? We have it so too, but here it is very (too) early.
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Gerard are those bulbs lying on the surface of the soil on the right hand bottom corner of the picture 1?
Here is G Barnes doing its best. It has been trying to open properly for a couple of weeks now
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I think its normal Hagen, but it is not going that fast anymore because daylight is getting shorter and its colder. We had the first elwesii monostictus in flower the first week of October and that is very early.
Ian they are still in the soil with their roots. It happens with the bulbs on the side's of the plantingbed because of the enormous lot of rain we had in October and November.
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Gerard I get this too but then I have difficulty if they become detached sometimes deciding which plant they are if they are close to another variety ???
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Gerard I get this too but then I have difficulty if they become detached sometimes deciding which plant they are if they are close to another variety ???
It is funny how they jump out of the ground isn't it! My snowdrop collecting started with being given permission to pick up the 'orphaned' ones from my aunts big garden. 8) If anyone is ever visiting my garden and sees something labeled as 'Doreens lucky dip' you will now know what it is! ;)
regards
John
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Folks
Advice please. The use of aquatic baskets for planting galanthus has been mentioned on at least two SRGC threads. Where are these containers to be obtained? Are there different sizes? And once the bulbs have gone in, is some netting over the open top desirable to deter mice/squirrels? Thanks,
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Steve, most garden centres stock them usually in the aquatic section. They are made in various sizes from a strong plastic mesh. Wouldn't surprise me if there was a picture somewhere in Ian's Bulblog. Not being a Galanthophile myself I'll leave it to others to advise on topping the pots with mesh.
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Hello, Steve, welcome to the Forum!
David is correct, you will find descriptions of these aquatic plant baskets in the Bulb Log. We would certainly say it is a good idea to cover the top of the basket, before top-dressing with grit, with a square of weld-mesh to deter predation by any furry bulb munchers.
Also in the Bulb Logs, you will see that we use these baskets both in the open garden and in sand plunge frames.
Very useful containers, indeed. 8)
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Yes freely available at all big garden centres with pond sections. Next year I'm releasing all mine from pond pots. It was on the to do list this year but the summer was so c$%p. I have found that very few roots make it out of the holes. Twiweld/welded mash is available from all DIY stores and pet superstores. The smallest square is 1/4 inch. DIY stores sell various sized sheets
http://www.moncaster.co.uk/productpage.asp?category=Prime%20Welded%20Mesh (http://www.moncaster.co.uk/productpage.asp?category=Prime%20Welded%20Mesh)
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.............I have found that very few roots make it out of the holes...........
That really surprises me Mark give the size of Snowdrop bulbs and consequently the thickness of their roots. I have a number of pots of tallish Narcissus in the garden in aquatic pots and they seem to thrive.
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From time to time someone visiting will ask for a bulb during the flowering season so I lift a pot. I'm all for supplying when they are dormant. There have always been a mass of roots inside the pond pot
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It does not really matter if the roots get out of the mesh pot or not the important part is that there is free movement of moisture between the pot and the ground it is planted in, it is easy to tie a label to the basket to keep clones separate and when you do go to lift the dormant bulbs they are easily found and not damaged by a prodding spade.
I have always found that the roots will easily penetrate the mesh, no matter how fine, if they want to - in fact Eryhtronium bulbs are capable of escaping through the bottom via the 1mm mesh.
Generally most bulbs and their roots are content to stay within the pot because they have sufficient moisture and nutrients available and do not need to go searching.
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I never thought that my bulbs are happy. I feel I should repot them anyway because some are congested
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Folks
Very helpful, thanks. So helpful in fact that here is your next starter for 10. One school of thought seems to say that Galanthus does best in poor soil, another that feeding is good. So once I get these aquatic containers home, I know that the compost mix has to be gritty and free-draining, but should the mix include food or do I avoid feeding like the plague? Thanks again
Steve
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Steve, please don't feel hurt by this but has anyone ever said that you bear a strong resemblance to Harold in 'Neighbours' ;D
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Harold Bishop
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Steve, when I am using plunge baskets in the open garden I usually use the garden soil with some added leafmould - I should add that our soil is very sandy.
All bulbs need feeding so I also add some bone meal to planting soil and supplement with potassium when the flowers fade - check out http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2005/160205/log.html for more details of my feeding regime.
If I am plunging into sand beds I use my normal grirtty mix again with bone meal added.
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Ian you and the forum get a mention at all my lectures that include bulbs
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David Nicholson!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What has your life come to? Watching "Neighbours"!
Sad, very sad!
Paddy
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David
Is this any better?
Steve
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David Nicholson!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What has your life come to? Watching "Neighbours"!
Sad, very sad!
Paddy
Not guilty mi Lud. I've never seen an episode just something I see whilst passing on to something more meaningful like the 6PM News! :-[
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Biggles? ;D
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Ian
Thanks, I went to your link and downloaded the article.
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Steve, your aviator photo was TOO good a chance to pass up... you are henceforth nicknamed "Biggles".... see your profile section of your posts..... 8)
Such fun, sometimes it takes AGES for me to find a good nickname!
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Folks
Advice please. The use of aquatic baskets for planting galanthus has been mentioned on at least two SRGC threads. Where are these containers to be obtained? Are there different sizes? And once the bulbs have gone in, is some netting over the open top desirable to deter mice/squirrels? Thanks,
I've never had mice nor squirrels go for snowdrop bulbs. Crocus corms - now that's a different kettle of fish.
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Maggi, You look too young to remember Biggles.
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Maggi, You look too young to remember Biggles.
You silver tongued devil, Steve..... I foresee a wonderful friendship here!! :-*
Nicholson, Darby, Booker, Tyerman et al... if any of you make a comment about Biggles needing new specs.......my fury will know no bounds!! >:(
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Maggi, You look too young to remember Biggles.
Steve, you really don't need to crawl-just send her chocolate (in copius amounts) ;D
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Watch it , David! Not, Steve, that that isn't good enough advice ::)
By the way, David, IS THAT YOU, or have you pinched the photo of some younger chap? ;D
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It's Lesley's fault. She said the picture I had taken with Ian, at his Exeter talk, made me look ten years younger than I looked in my old avatar. So, being very vane.................................... :-[
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Well, just because it makes you look younger, that's no excuse for sitting on a bit of wrought iron on a steeple top..... "vane".... get it? Actually, Ian and I agreed with Lesley.. that photo does make you look younger than the old avatar and Ian expected you would be older than you turned out to be in real life..... now, send chocolate, please !!
I've been having a look today at a few spots in the garden where the earliest snowdrop spikes appear....no sign of any at all at present.... mind you, they are usually much later here than everywhere else, most years....but the weather has been so changeable that I thought I'd check to see if any snowies were confused.... it seems I have only sensible snowdrops!
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I too think David looks much younger now.
Maggi are there no autumn snowdrops in Ian's collection?
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If you look closely it looks as though I have a piece of wrought iron sticking out of the top of my head!
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Mark, you know as well as I do that Ian absolutely denies having ANY sort of snowdrop collection.
We have a couple of puny G. regina olgae and a G. peshmenii... that's about it.
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If you look closely it looks as though I have a piece of wrought iron sticking out of the top of my head!
I just assumed you were HD ready, David? :)
(Apologies to non-Brits for this U.K. based ... 'joke')!
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If you look closely it looks as though I have a piece of wrought iron sticking out of the top of my head!
I just assumed you were HD ready, David? :)
(Apologies to non-Brits for this U.K. based ... 'joke')!
Got it! 8) :D
A man said to his friend: "I've just bought a 32-inch HD ready TV for £50.
His friend asked "What's wrong with it?''
"Nothing, except the volume control is stuck on very loud."
"You still bought it even with that fault?''
"It was such a bargain I couldn't turn it down."
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excellent!
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If you look closely it looks as though I have a piece of wrought iron sticking out of the top of my head!
I just assumed you were HD ready, David? :)
(Apologies to non-Brits for this U.K. based ... 'joke')!
That's aerialy good one Cliff! :P
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Luit, that's a very 'Brit' sounding joke-just shows there are no borders in humour.
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Probably a bit late with this but I have been walking in the snowy north.
I grow all my galanthus in clay pots but I have my arum collection in pond baskets plunged in sand. This is to keep them isolated as lots of them produce masses of tiny offsets which would soon create chaos if they got loose. Arums produce thick fleshy roots and these have no problem in getting through the mesh into the sand. I just water and feed the sand. A picture to illustrate.
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Hm, Tony very exact collection but there must be an intensify pleasant aroma in the tunnel. But I like Arum too.
Today I have seen THREE SHIPS on the way with ringing flowers. Earlier then last year. Who knows when spring will open the high season.
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No snowdrop pictures here for a while? My G. reginae-olgae looked like this last Tuesday but are now standing up well. If you want some vigorous reginae-olgae, Maggi, I can give you a clump in the spring.
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Roma, we will have winter for four month. It`s very long. I enjoy every warm day over 0°C.
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Hm, Tony very exact collection but there must be an intensify pleasant aroma in the tunnel. But I like Arum too.
Hagen you are correct about the smell in a small greenhouse. With a few in flower it is awful but they are amazing plants. The other problem is that unlike galanthus and other bulbs the flower only lasts a couple of days
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Roma, that would be very kind of you, thanks! :D
Tony, please tell me you have those Arums as far away from your house as possible? :P
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Maggi they add a certain something to breakfast when their scent? drifts in as I sit eating my mushy weetabix on a warm spring morning.
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Maggi they add a certain something to breakfast when their scent? drifts in as I sit eating my mushy weetabix on a warm spring morning.
ooh, errr......[attach=1]
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Tony, didn't know you got warm Spring mornings in Chorley, maybe Chorley FM weathermen are better than out locals!
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Note the comment-drift in, I did not say I would not be sat on the patio or that it would also be raining as I did not want to spoil the picture it conjured up.
I watch the weather forecast with despair as I the lovely Dianne tells me it is a sunny day and look out of the window and see the reality. It is p..ing down here at the moment!
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Note the comment-drift in,
You, know I DID wonder about that... had visions of force eight gale blasting the pong into the kitchen.... which is what tends to happen here since my Beloved planted Arum dioscoridis five feet from the back door :P :-X >:(
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Flowers at this time : large flowering of G. ikariae ssp. snogerupii and beginning of G. cilicicus : has someone this species flowering too ? I woulf be happy to compare the flowers...
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I posted a picture of my G. cilcicus on this thread page 12 reply 178.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2117.msg60865#msg60865
It is still in flower and has been for over a month.
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Thanks Tony : leaves are similar, ouf ! I'm sure now that I have the true species. Is it common to have a touch of green on the external tepals ?
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The green is not common. How is the colour of the leaves. Do they have a midrib?
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Leaves are glaucous with a midrib. Here is a picture of the leaves last year :
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Yes Bio, the leaves look like G. cilicicus. The midrib is not striking on the upside.
Fine plant. I have seen only one time Gc with outer tips!
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I have seen only one time Gc with outer tips!
Was it a wild plant or a cultivated one ?
I don't have the precise origin of mine, only "Taurus".
I have about ten bulbs of this plant : if you want to swap one against an interesting form of this species or another one, no problem for this summer ;)
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Taurus is OK. Near Mersin. If you could reserve one bulb for me, it would be great. Thank you.
I never saw Gc in the wild, because I was too early, or the flowers were too late. There was no date together. ;)
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Leaves are glaucous with a midrib. Here is a picture of the leaves last year :
A fine looking plant. How do you grow it?
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No problem Hagen !
Anthony, this plant is outside in the garden, near a south-faced wall, in my normal earth with some fine pouzzolane and compost at the bottom of the clay pot plunged in the earth (sorry for my english ;D, I hope you understand...).
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pouzzolane
Can you tell me what this is?
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Ah I see that it is volcanic lava, and rather rare in Norfolk! :D
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Anthony, this plant is outside in the garden, near a south-faced wall, in my normal earth with some fine pouzzolane and compost at the bottom of the clay pot plunged in the earth (sorry for my english ;D, I hope you understand...).
Thanks. I understand perfectly. :) It can take temperatures below 0oC then? Is this the same for snogerupii? I have seedlings of this one and would hate to lose them.
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Thanks. I understand perfectly. :) It can take temperatures below 0oC then? Is this the same for snogerupii? I have seedlings of this one and would hate to lose them.
I cannot vouch for either plant in a Scottish frost, Anthony ;), but they seem to handle the English version without any obvious problems (regularly down to -3/-4C, with the occasional drop to circa -8C) - my cilicicus planted in the open garden has been flowering since early October whereas in other more shaded areas it is only just coming into flower - snogerupii is in bud and will flower within the week.
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Brian, yes pouzzolane is volcanic lava, in France it comes from the Massif Central (Auvergne).
Anthony : in my garden the temperature can reach -10°C and there is no problem for my Galanthi. Here is a picture of frozen G. snogerupii :
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They look, and make me, very happy. :)
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They look, and make me, very happy.
Before anyone else gets in with it, it's good that something so simple gives so many of us so much pleasure ;D
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I have seen only one time Gc with outer tips!
Was it a wild plant or a cultivated one ?
I don't have the precise origin of mine, only "Taurus".
I have about ten bulbs of this plant : if you want to swap one against an interesting form of this species or another one, no problem for this summer ;)
I understand mine was collected by Richard Nutt and is the collection mentioned in the Galanthus Monograph.
Here is a rather tall growing G. reginae-olgae ssp vernalis from the Western Pelopennese in flower now
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Here is a rather tall growing G. reginae-olgae ssp vernalis from the Western Pelopennese in flower now
Very attractive plant Tony - I like snowdrops with this very upright stance very much.
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Very distinguished looking plant Tony :)
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Re Tony's G. reginae-olgae ssp vernalis ........ she's a fine looking girl, but her legs are pretty solid, aren' t they ? ::) :o More correctly...." her leg is pretty solid" ;)
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As you know Maggi I like a well built girl.No use if they blow over in the first bit of wind.
Brian I thought it looked quite elegant.
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Curiously, my 'Tilebarn Jamie' is just in bud in the greenhouse now. :-\
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first time i have heard of G. snogerupii !
the pleated/ribbed leaves are quite distinctive
Rob - please read here :
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1599.0
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For those amongst us who are not native English speakers I should explain that "snog" is a slang verb meaning "engage in kissing and caressing" (from my Concise Oxford Dictionary) whilst "er" is often used as a slang contraction of "her". Thus the name "snogerupii" has faintly amusing overtones; particularly to one brought up on Benny Hill and the "Carry on ..." films with their love of salacious humour based on "double entendre" (pardon my French).
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...whilst of course it is really named after the Swede Sven Snogerup emeritus professor of Botany at Lunds University. :)
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...whilst of course it is really named after the Swede Sven Snogerup emeritus professor of Botany at Lunds University. :)
...and I hope that this fine botanist was himself, eminently kissable..... for "his" snowdrop is cute!!
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...whilst of course it is really named after the Swede Sven Snogerup emeritus professor of Botany at Lunds University. :)
who apparently did not think it as anything other than G. ikariae and, I believe, treated it as such in his 'Flora of Andros' (although later DNA analysis in Holland apparently suggests that it is distinct) - it was named by Kamari.
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We've got a galanthus flowering in the open garden ........... it's........white ::)
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Ohhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! I want one two :D
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and where's the proof
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I decided that perhaps my previous info was a little skimpy... so I've been outside to look at the label of the white snowdrop..... label says Galanthus reginae olgae 'Hyde Lodge' .... I do hope you are all suitably impressed ? When I say... "in the open garden"... that is not quite true... the snowie is tucked in close to a fern and is quite protected.... I don't think it has flowered before for us.
By the way, had a look at the thermometer while I was out..... minus 3 degrees C at the minute..... feels colder!
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..... label says Galanthus reginae olgae 'Hyde Lodge' .... I do hope you are all suitably impressed ?
Very impressed Maggi ::) ::) ::)
An extremely good snowdrop - Martin cannot be around at the moment because I know that he rates this one highly too
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and where's the proof
here we go.....very fuzzy photo....well, it is dark, minus 3 , under a fern and me behind the camera!!
[attach=1]
You will see, even in this fuzzy photo, that the bulb s increasing.... that's a first for G. r.o., here, too!
Thank you for your kind words, Chris!
No idea where I got it... may have been Sandy Leven.
Sandy mentions this snowdrop in this article in the main website, from 2007....
http://www.srgc.org.uk/feature/sandyjanuary2007/content.html
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I believe I see a second flower emerging!
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and where's the proof
here we go.....very fuzzy photo....well, it is dark, minus 3 , under a fern and me behind the camera!!
(Attachment Link)
You will see, even in this fuzzy photo, that the bulb s increasing.... that's a first for G. r.o., here, too!
Thank you for your kind words, Chris!
No idea where I got it... may have been Sandy Leven.
Mark - Don't believe her, she's been photographing white Christmas lights.
johnw
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I believe I see a second flower emerging!
Blimey you have good eyesight Mark! :D
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I have a small clump of G Mandarin in full flower. They join Donald Sims Early, and Elwesii Hiemalis. R/o Cambridge are long since over, and Barnes and Peter Gatehouse went over a fortnight ago.
Kastellorhizo has flowered and is over in the alpine house.
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.....very fuzzy photo....
G. 'Nessie'? ;) ;D
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I will ignore all the rather unkind comments about me and my snowie pic..... ;)
I've had a good look at it today and, what a surprise..... not only is there a second flower showing, the third nose has a bud, too! :)
I think Ian has taken more competent photos, but those are in his laptop machine so not accessible to me here at the minute.
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Has my snowdrop ever been released, from it's jail sentence in a wee pot, in to the garden where it can grow tall and proud?
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Yes, Mark, Mark's Tall was released into the garden just after you were here complaining about it ;D
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I will ignore all the rather unkind comments about me and my snowie pic..... ;)
Just teasing Maggi. Of course I'm only jealous because all three snouts on my first (& completely ordinary) G. reginae-olgae were mown down by marauding slugs as soon as they emerged. Pellets next year - whatever the scruples!
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Ashley you cant have enough pellets. I need to put some in the plunges tomorrow. The first flower from one of my C. chrysanthus cultivars has been nibbled.
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..... Barnes and Peter Gatehouse went over a fortnight ago. ........
Both still going strong in my garden; you must be somewhere nice and warm. I am still waiting for many of my early elwesiis this year.
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My early elwesii and 'Peter Gatehouse' are over also
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I have a small clump of G Mandarin in full flower.
Are the inner segments orange, or perhaps it has something to do with orientation of the petals? ;)
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i found some more galanthus seedlings today, I'm happy :)
but I'm not sure if they are G.reginae olgae as they dont appear to have a median stripe, or does this feature develop after this initial cotyledon? (i.e true leaves)
they could still be some armine x nivalis sandersii crosses though as they are a odd green like 'anglessey abbey'
rob
Rob, snowdrop seeds do often germinate sporadically. One or two in a pot tend to come through early, others later in the year, some not until the following year. You'll probably find more as winter goes on, germination stimulated by the cold spells.
Like most plants, the cotyledons of snowdrops don't look exactly like the mature leaves. The seed leaves are bright green with no median stripes, glaucous bloom or other distinguishing features such as you get in mature leaves. The reginae olgae seedlings will develop their median stripes in future years.