Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => Flowers and Foliage Now => Topic started by: Herman Mylemans on March 23, 2025, 05:25:26 PM
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Paeonia kesrouanensis from Turkey.
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Nice to see Herman! My earliest is usually mascula russoi but that is looking a long way off yet.
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Herman,
It;s amazing to see Paeonies this early. Are they naturally this early, or did you find a way to encourage it to flower earlier than it would have done without intervention?
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Herman,
It;s amazing to see Paeonies this early. Are they naturally this early, or did you find a way to encourage it to flower earlier than it would have done without intervention?
Marc, this one always flowers now.
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Paeonia kesrouanensis
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Herman, in the monthly thread I showed a peony seedling flowering for the first time, which looks different from the others received as P. mlokosewitschii. Do You think this might be P. kesrouanensis?
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Herman, in the monthly thread I showed a peony seedling flowering for the first time, which looks different from the others received as P. mlokosewitschii. Do You think this might be P. kesrouanensis?
Mariette, it is possible. Full description:
https://www.peonysociety.org/species/herbaceous/corallinae/kesrouanensis/?sfw=pass1743575834
I have added some pictures of the leaves
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Mine are still a while off flowering but I love this time of year with all the fresh growth and fascinating leaf and bud forms.
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Paeonia tenuifolia in bud with lovely feathery foliage.
My Peony book, in Reaktion's Botanical series is just out.
[attachimg=2]
https://reaktionbooks.co.uk/work/peony
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Mariette, it is possible. Full description:
https://www.peonysociety.org/species/herbaceous/corallinae/kesrouanensis/?sfw=pass1743575834
I have added some pictures of the leaves
Thank You, Herman! Meanwhile, a friend who has seen this species in Turkey told me, that the glabrous carpels and crooked stigma are crucial for the identification of this species. Yesterday the filaments were gone, and I was able to take a pic of that part of the flower.
(https://up.picr.de/49437829hv.jpg)
Thank You also for the details of the leaves! The upper side of them is glabrous in my plant, whereas beneath they show short dense hairs. Looks like the same with Yours?
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My Peony book, in Reaktion's Botanical series is just out
https://reaktionbooks.co.uk/work/peony
And so is Gail Harland's excellent book, "The Rock Garden" published by www.amberley-books.com!!
ISBN 9781398119925 https://www.amberley-books.com/author-community-main-page/h/gail-harland/the-rock-garden.html
[attachimg=1]
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Thank you Maggi! :)
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That does look like P. kesrouanensis to me. Glabrous carpels indeed. Very early flowering. Very short hairs on the backside of the leaflets. If fertilized seeds develop in the carpels, those carpels will become huge, much larger than with other peonies.
[attachimg=1]
Thank You, Herman! Meanwhile, a friend who has seen this species in Turkey told me, that the glabrous carpels and crooked stigma are crucial for the identification of this species. Yesterday the filaments were gone, and I was able to take a pic of that part of the flower.
(https://up.picr.de/49437829hv.jpg)
Thank You also for the details of the leaves! The upper side of them is glabrous in my plant, whereas beneath they show short dense hairs. Looks like the same with Yours?
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Paeonia archibaldii blooming now in Belgium.
[attachimg=1][attachimg=2]
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That does look like P. kesrouanensis to me. Glabrous carpels indeed. Very early flowering. Very short hairs on the backside of the leaflets. If fertilized seeds develop in the carpels, those carpels will become huge, much larger than with other peonies.
(Attachment Link)
Thank You, Koen! It´s good to feel sure - I got that seedling with a batch of P. mlokosewitschii seedlings.
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Paeonia archibaldii blooming now in Belgium.
Koen, very nice Paeonia!
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Yes, at first I thought you would have P. x lagodechiana (=P. caucasica x P. mlokosewitschii) since those can have all kinds of colour. But the image was quite clear with the glabrous carpels. A rare species :-)
Thank You, Koen! It´s good to feel sure - I got that seedling with a batch of P. mlokosewitschii seedlings.
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Yes, Koen, at first I thought it would be a hybrid, too. But the early flowering - decidedly before P. mlokosewitschii and caucasica - made me doubt and look closer for the details. I wonder if my single plant will produce seed. Did You rise seedlings from Your pink clone? One might hope for a white flowered one. :)
Your Paeonia archibaldii looks wonderful!
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I've never seen a white P. kesrouanensis. I did have some seeds a few times, but only a few and they are difficult to germinate. The seeds are usually much larger than other peony species seeds (except for P. ludlowii). I try crossing this species with double flowered cultivars in the hope of getting something worthwhile that blooms so very early (and with good fragrance). A few are coming along, but they are still a few years from flowering.
Yes, Koen, at first I thought it would be a hybrid, too. But the early flowering - decidedly before P. mlokosewitschii and caucasica - made me doubt and look closer for the details. I wonder if my single plant will produce seed. Did You rise seedlings from Your pink clone? One might hope for a white flowered one. :)
Your Paeonia archibaldii looks wonderful!
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That´s very interesting, Koen. Loving scented plants, I smelled at the flower, and it had a slight scent. Reminding me more of the shrubby peonies than P. lactiflora.
A friend collected seed in Turkey and succeeded to germinate them, but lost the seedlings afterwards. My seedling took 2-4 years more to reach flowering size than the 3 P. mlokosewitschii seedlings I received together with it.
Some sources mention white forms of P. kesrouanensis, but perhaps the very pale pink form shown here is meant.
https://www.nargs.org/paeonia-2014
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I was curious to see that white P. kesrouanensis, so went to see on the nargs site. But that is not P. kesrouanensis, the picture is not very clear nor large, but as far as I can see the carpels are tomentose. And the foliage doesn't resemble P. kesrouanensis anyway. Rather it is P. flavescens. It grows in the same region as P. mascula ssp russoi, Sicily to be more precise. It is sometimes considered to be synonymous with the latter, although not really the case IMHO. I've seen images of many 'albino' forms of normally pink or reddish species (P. caucasica, P. broteri, P. corsica...) but never any of P. kesrouanensis. It already is pretty enough being pink :-)
That´s very interesting, Koen. Loving scented plants, I smelled at the flower, and it had a slight scent. Reminding me more of the shrubby peonies than P. lactiflora.
A friend collected seed in Turkey and succeeded to germinate them, but lost the seedlings afterwards. My seedling took 2-4 years more to reach flowering size than the 3 P. mlokosewitschii seedlings I received together with it.
Some sources mention white forms of P. kesrouanensis, but perhaps the very pale pink form shown here is meant.
https://www.nargs.org/paeonia-2014
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You´re certainly right, Koen - by closer inspection the carpels seem tomentose and the stigmas not fitting for P. kesrouanensis. When browsing for information on that species I found a turkish webside with precise botanical desriptions and many pictures of plants growing wild. I believe there was at least one white specimen amongst those, unfortunately I cannot find that source again, though I tried several times. I agree, the light pink flowers of my plant are beautiful, and the satiny sheen on the widely opening petals could not be more obvious on a white flower. :)
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Mariette ,
maybe this is P.mascula v. bodurii ?
This species flowers white and is a P.mascula and it grows in Turkey :
https://www.peonysociety.org/species/herbaceous/corallinae/mascula/
The other P.mascula with white flowers like P.mascula v. ikaria + P.mascula v.hellenica grows only in Greece
Hans
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Well, as coincidence happens I once wrote an article about peonies in Turkey, so I think I know most or all of them.
In Turkey there are many peony species, but only few of them are white and restricted to small areas:
-the best known one is P. mascula ssp bodurii as Hans mentioned. NW Turkey. But tomentose carpels.
-a lesser known one (not formally accepted as yet) is Paeonia arietina ssp arasicola. Just like P. arietina but with white petals or sometimes slightly blush. Only a few less accessible locations in Northern Turkey. Also tomentose carpels of course.
-there is also P. macrophylla, that one is pale yellow in bud and at first opening, but fades to white, that one does have glabrous carpels.
You can always read the full article here:
https://www.peonysociety.org/peonies-of-turkey/
You´re certainly right, Koen - by closer inspection the carpels seem tomentose and the stigmas not fitting for P. kesrouanensis. When browsing for information on that species I found a turkish webside with precise botanical desriptions and many pictures of plants growing wild. I believe there was at least one white specimen amongst those, unfortunately I cannot find that source again, though I tried several times. I agree, the light pink flowers of my plant are beautiful, and the satiny sheen on the widely opening petals could not be more obvious on a white flower. :)
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Having never seen a peony growing wild, I´m certainly not helpful when it comes to identify them. Thank You both for Your valuable information!
When Herman Mylemans showed his P. kesrouanensis, I had the idea that my seedling flowering for the first time might be this species. I started browsing for information and came upon the webside mentioned, which showed in detail the features of P. kesrouanensis and several pics of plants growing wild. Amongst them, as far as I remember, was at least one white form shown as a variant. I´m very sorry that I cannot find that webside again.
Hans was so kind to give me privately these details: glabrous carpels and crooked stigma, which made me take a pic of these. I´m sorry that I cannot contribute more to that matter.
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Grown as Paeonia cambessedesii although clearly not 'glabrous throughout (https://www.peonysociety.org/species/herbaceous/corallinae/cambessedesii/)'.
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Paeonia x litvinskajae. Supposedly a natural hybrid between P. wittmanniana x P. caucasica. Or P. daurica ssp wittmanniana x P. daurica ssp coriifolia if you'd like to follow current nomenclature. Always looks like P. wittmanniana except for the colour which is slightly pink, therefore some people think it is merely a colour variant of P. wittmanniana and has nothing to do with P. caucasica.
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Everything is rushing into flower here now.
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Paeonia obovata alba
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Paeonia tenuifolia
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Paeonia mascula subsp. russoi
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some tree peonies;
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Paeonia 'Zi Die Ying Feng'
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Paeonia 'Cardinal Vaughan'
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Paeonia 'Shima-nishiki'
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This is the first year that Shima-nishiki has produced a stripey flower for me.
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Oh my word, Gail , your Paeonia 'Zi Die Ying Feng' is glorious!!
Not sure if I've mentionedc this before, but
Gail Harland's Peony book, in Reaktion's Botanical series is just out........
https://reaktionbooks.co.uk/work/peony
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Thank you Maggi, and yes, Paeonia 'Zi Die Ying Feng' is indeed glorious. It is one of the Gansu Mudan peonies with P. rockii blood so has lovely blotches at the centre of the flowers. The new spring foliage is gorgeous too.
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Tree peonies in full flower now;
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Paeonia 'The Captain's Concubine'
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Paeonia rockii UK form
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I got last autumn a plant from a friend who received the plant as P. emodi, but he believes it is rather 'Early Windflower'. I searched on the internet on the difference between these 2 and I found an article which describes as difference the number of segments per leaf.
https://www.peonysociety.org/p-emodi-or-a-windflower/
I checked the plant in my garden and I also wanted to see if the plants which I bought from 2 different sources as P. emodi are correct or are P. 'Early Windflower'. As the plants of my P. emodi's and the plant which is probably P. 'Early Windflower' are not planted far apart from each other, I noticed another more obvious difference between P. emodi and P. 'Early Windflower'. The leaves on both P. emodi plants are glossy, while the leaves on P. 'Early Windflower' is mat or semi-mat. A plant of P. veitchii is also close to the P. emodi and P. 'Early Windflower' and its leaves are mat. I believe this could be another possibility to distinguish P. emodi and P. 'Early Windflower' (maybe together with the number of leaf segments).
What do you think and what are your observations on this?
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Many years ago I got from a friend P. rockii 'High Down', a very wonderful P. rockii clone with the dark purple basal blotches. I pollinated it in the year 2020 with itself, but did not protect the pollination. While last year the first few seedlings flowered, some more flowered this year. One of them showed the outer filaments as small leaflets with anthers on it. The plant showed 2 flowers this year, but as it was the first year of flowering, I hope it will be like this also in the future years.
Attached is first a photo of P. rockii 'High Down' and second are 2 photos of my seedling, which also shows dark purple basal blotches (but also hidden by the leaflets of the outer filaments.
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What do you think and what are your observations on this?
Here are mine if it helps -photos just taken so not in full flower yet.
[attachimg=1]
Paeonia 'Early Windflower' from I think Paul Christian
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Paeonia emodi CC1764 - Kashmir wild collected seed from Chris Chadwell
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compared
the wild emodi has noticebly larger leaves with less segments but the flowers tend to stay cupped and look smaller. I received two seeds which both germinated but one promptly died so I only have this one clone and am sure they will vary. If you only have space for one then I'd suggest a windflower as the better garden plant - flowers are better displayed and it makes a fantastic specimen.
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Many years ago I got from a friend P. rockii 'High Down', a very wonderful P. rockii clone with the dark purple basal blotches. I pollinated it in the year 2020 with itself, but did not protect the pollination. While last year the first few seedlings flowered, some more flowered this year. One of them showed the outer filaments as small leaflets with anthers on it. The plant showed 2 flowers this year, but as it was the first year of flowering, I hope it will be like this also in the future years.
Attached is first a photo of P. rockii 'High Down' and second are 2 photos of my seedling, which also shows dark purple basal blotches (but also hidden by the leaflets of the outer filaments.
Very beautiful seedlings, Jürg! Unfortunately, Paeonia rockii and it´s F1 hybrids do not tolerate my heavy, waterlogged clay. Yet the seedlings of ´Gessekai´x ´Major Howell´ do all well in my garden. Maybe because they are growing on their own roots, or maybe because they are F2 hybrids.
(https://up.picr.de/49555998dz.jpg)
(https://up.picr.de/49556000kx.jpg)
(https://up.picr.de/49555999io.jpg)
The same flower somewhat later
(https://up.picr.de/49555997wk.jpg)
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Some great photos, have never grown tree paeonies as my conditions are to wet over winter.
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Also your seedlings look great, Mariette!
I also have heavy clay in my garden, but most of my peonies have no problems with it. Also P. rockii and its seedlings are growing well. P. rockii 'High Down' had a few years a problem but I guess it had to do with its grafted root, which probably started to die, and P. rockii's root were not well developped so far. But you can mix sand into your clay which would certainly allow you also to grow P. rockii.
I mixed my clay with sand and compost for some peonies which are naturally growing in more shady or forest conditions, like P. japonica, P. obovata and P. mairei. All these are also doing fine in my garden due to that.
However I do have some problems with some peonies, as they do not like their current conditions. Some I have replanted and given either more light or more shade and meanwhile I give also fertilizer, as I have not given any fertilizer to my plants in the past (as in nature there is also nobody fertilizing the plants; I have not done it in the past, but I realized in the last 2 years, that several plants started to get smaller and weaker).
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Thank You, Jürg!
My problem is the layer of clay - the kind You make bricks of - below the 30-50 cm of topsoil. This means an almost complete lack of drainage. I should have to build raised beds for plants needing good drainage, another problem in our increasing number of hot and dry summers. Not only P. rockii on its own roots, but also several Chinese varieties on their own roots succumbed to the conditions here.
@ Jeff: As long as Your soil is well drained, it may be worth trying tree peonies. Preferably grown from seed or on their own roots.
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Gypsum can help improve drainage with clay soils.
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It may help to improve the topsoil, but wouldn´t make any difference regarding the 7 m of clay below, I´m afraid.
´Gessekai´ has proven a good mother for my crosses with rockii- seedlings.
(https://up.picr.de/49581264fa.jpg)
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The Itoh hybrids are starting now.
This is 'Magical Mystery Tour'
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Impressive colour.
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'White Innocence', one of the tallest herbaceous peonies, it benefits from support. Outstandingly beautiful flowers with the best fragrance of any peony - light, sweet and citrusy.
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Such lovely paeonies Gail, well photographed.
'White Innocence' is exquisite.
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Mariette, Gail, you have beautiful peonies in your gardens.
(https://i.imgur.com/3yPDz5Al.jpg)
Tree Peony 'Dou Lu'
(Pea Green Peony) (Green of Beans)
(https://i.imgur.com/0CQSmAOl.jpg)
Paeonia potaninii ‘Orange-Rot’
(https://i.imgur.com/oAgcHLql.jpg)
Paeonia suffruticosa 'Jing Ge'
(Souvenir du Maxime Cornu)
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Last two flowers on 'White Innocence' now but it has done well this year and is a good riposte for those who complain that peonies don't last long. Paeonia lactiflora 'Madame Gaudichau' is a joy for months with the wonderful bronze-red shoots and foliage then flowers now - they have a rich tea-rose fragrance and are popular with bumble bees.
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Superb colour.
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Paeonia 'Green Halo' which I bought out of curiosity. Curiosity now satiated!
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Paeonia 'Green Halo' which I bought out of curiosity. Curiosity now satiated!
Mercy! That is one scary flower!!
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Tree Peonies
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Another good display.
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Magnificent!!