Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Cultivation => Cultivation Problems => Topic started by: WimB on June 25, 2008, 03:29:25 PM

Title: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: WimB on June 25, 2008, 03:29:25 PM
Hello,

a couple of years ago I got a nice big horse-trough carved from stone. I planted it with carnivorous plants in peat but they didn't do very well because they were sometimes for too long too deep under water.

So now I'm looking for plants that can withstand being 5 cm (2 inches) under water for one or two months and still will thrive. I really don't want to drill a hole in it...

Anyone has any ideas?

Thanks

Wim
Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: Maggi Young on June 25, 2008, 04:43:25 PM
WOW! You are really lucky with this big trough, Wim.
Can we see a photo of it?
Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: WimB on June 25, 2008, 05:07:44 PM
Hi,

here are some pictures of the trough with some primula's (florindae and viallii) in it, who do not like it, so I'm going to transplant them.

lenght:100 cm
width: 50 cm
depth: 30 cm

Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: David Shaw on June 25, 2008, 07:31:41 PM
Wim, could I suggest that you use some wicking material to draw excess water out of the trough?
Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: WimB on June 25, 2008, 08:00:22 PM
wicking material, never thought about it, wat do you suggest?
Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: Maggi Young on June 25, 2008, 09:07:31 PM
Hydro-Wick Passive Hydroponic Wicking Material is one option:  http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Passive-Hydroponic-Wick-Wicking-Material-GROW-seeds_W0QQitemZ230235506325QQihZ013QQcategoryZ43555QQcmdZViewItem

 Any rope/material that will soak liquid up its length at at reasonable speed will work. Cotton fibres/ropes are fast, but rot very easily.


Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: Lesley Cox on June 25, 2008, 09:53:02 PM
Aciphylla pinnatifida will grow and flower under water as will some of the smaller calthas.
Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: arisaema on June 25, 2008, 11:34:25 PM
Ditto for Acorus gramineus 'Variegatus', Juncus effusus 'Spiralis', all Alisma species, Peltandra virginica, Menynathes trifoliata, Mimulus ringens etc. I think I would have used it as a shallow pond, lots of interesting plants that will survive with only an inch or so of water :)
Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: Lesley Cox on June 26, 2008, 06:24:49 AM
But these are all WAY too big for a trough whereas the others stay small, or at least, very controllable.
Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: Susan Band on June 26, 2008, 06:46:38 AM
Wim, you could always mound up the trough, perhaps with tufa so that you could grow plants that like their heads in the sun and there roots kept moist.
Susan
Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: arisaema on June 26, 2008, 09:14:31 AM
But these are all WAY too big for a trough whereas the others stay small, or at least, very controllable.

Taste, Lesley, althouth thinking it thru the Alisma may be a little oversized ;) The mound idea sounds good!
Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: WimB on June 26, 2008, 09:41:04 AM
Susan;

that mound idea is a really good one. Cool en moist roots and head in the sun... any suggestions?

I have some rocks out in the garden that I have to water each day. The following plants are in it: Androsace pyrenaica, Androsace mathildae, Physoplexis comosa, Saxifraga pubescens snopwcap. Do you think they would like it with their head in the sun?


Thanks

P.S. the soil in the trough now is soil for pond plants, do you think it would be better to change it?
Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: art600 on June 26, 2008, 01:13:31 PM
Many Happy Returns Wim
Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: David Nicholson on June 26, 2008, 07:07:39 PM
....... and from me Wim. Wish I was 28 again ;D
Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: WimB on June 26, 2008, 07:47:59 PM
Thanks for the wishes  :)
Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: arisaema on June 26, 2008, 08:58:50 PM
Congratulations, Wim! You beat me to it, but only by a couple of days ;D

(Edit: Thanks, Maggi!)
Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: Maggi Young on June 26, 2008, 09:10:00 PM
Congratulations, Wim! You beat me to it, but only by a couple of days ;D
Aha! So, now we know..... many happy returns to you ,soon, then Bjørnar ! ;)
Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: WimB on June 29, 2008, 10:00:27 AM
Do you think Ramonda's, Jancaea's or Haberlea's would like it there? Or would it be too sunny? The trough is in full sun from 14u untill the evening.

@ Arisaema: congratulations for your birthday too  :)
Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: WimB on July 01, 2008, 09:37:58 AM
Hello,

I just got an e-mail from someone who told me that it would be too wet for all alpines even if I mound it up with tufa...
What do you think? If I fill it up with soil untill the edge and then put a mound off tufa on it, would it be okay?

Thanks

Wim
Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: Paul T on July 02, 2008, 06:06:51 AM
Wim,

It might help to have the trough off-level, so that the back of it (from a viewing point of view) is higher than the front.  That way there is more soil (or whatever media above the saturation level.  If you do it so that it leans towards where it will be viewed from it won't be at all obvious, but the water level will be effectively lower than if the trough was perfectly level.  Just a matter of propping up the "back" of it.  Does that make sense?

Either way, unless you're using bog plants whose roots are used to saturated soils and therefore no air around them, the only bits that are going to be useful to plant roots are those areas of soil that are above the waterline.  What is why I was talking about changing the level of the pot so that the effective waterline is lower, and therefore more of the soil is available to plant roots.

Also, depending on your definition of "alpine".... there are hanging bogs etc in alpine areas in Tasmania at least, so these would be populated by alpine plants that love bog conditions.  I would be surprised if there are not similar bogs in alpine areas in other parts of the world.
Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: WimB on July 02, 2008, 02:33:26 PM
Thanks Paul,

It's a good idea to put the trough off-level.

Maybe you could give me some info about the bog-plants that are living in the alpine areas of Tasmania. And maybe someone has ideas about alpine bog-plants from other parts of the world that would like it there...
Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: Lesley Cox on July 02, 2008, 09:11:21 PM
The little NZ Caltha species and some Ranunculus spp, as well as things like Drosera, Celmisia argentea, Phyllacne, Herpolirion novae-zelandiae, Astelia linearis and many more but maybe these aren't generally available in Belgium or even Europe. You'd have to look in the society seedlists.
Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: Paul T on July 03, 2008, 12:33:02 PM
Wim,

I'd love to help with names of the bog plants from Tassie, but unfortunately I can't help.  I know the hanging bogs exist, but don't know the plant details for that area.  I'll see what I can find out for you, but not sure how long it will take.  Got to think about where I'd research for something like that.  I've finished up at the Botanic Gardens here in Canberra for now (so I'm not in there every day), but will try to drop in sometime and see what books they have in the library there that might be useful.  Not sure exactly whn that will happen, but won't be until next week.

A couple that I'd imagine would fit the bill would be Ranunculus collinus, Ranunculus glabrifolius and Gunnera cordifolia, at least in damp conditions that you were talking about creating.  All are spreading plants though, so probably not suitable for troughs?
Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: rob krejzl on July 03, 2008, 11:53:28 PM
Wim,

See if you can find a copy of Alpine Tasmania by Jamie Kirkpatrick (ISBN 0-19-533753-x) for plant choices.

The Droseras and Herpolirion are common to NZ and Tassie flora. You might also consider some of the bolster community plants (Abrotanella fosteroides, Donatia nova-zelandiae, Drocophyllum minimum, Phyllachne colensoi, Pterygoppappus lawrencei), perhaps Richea gunnii (reaches an eventual height of 1m, but very slow-growing) or even Isophysis tasmanica or Geum talbotianum as possibilities.

Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: Paul T on July 04, 2008, 12:16:05 AM
Rob,

Excellent, I'd hoped you might chime in if you were reading this.  Great Stuff!!  8)
Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: WimB on July 04, 2008, 06:52:08 PM
after a lot of debate, I've decided to go with the idea of Susan:

I builded a mound of tufa on top of the soil (actually it looks like a step-pyramid, that might have something to do with my archaeological studies  ;D

All the tufa is in contact with soil, now I only need the plants, suggestions...??
Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: Susan Band on July 06, 2008, 09:07:44 AM
Wim,
Your trough looks good, there is plenty of planting space above the water level.
I would water and leave it for a week or so to see how far up the tufa the moisture gets. The tufa should draw the moisture up from the trough but hopefully never be sitting wet except perhaps at the very bottom where it is in contact with the wet soil.
Ramondas and perhaps Jankaes should grow well if the trough is placed in the shade. Androsace, small dianthus  if in the sun. I reckon the roots will go down to the moisture level they are comfortable with.
 Let us know what happens.

Susan
Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: Anthony Darby on July 08, 2008, 10:21:14 PM
I was beginning to think, after all the suggestions, you're going to need half a dozen troughs Wim. ;D
Title: Re: swamp plants in a trough
Post by: WimB on July 09, 2008, 04:16:54 PM
My thought exactly, Anthony.  :D
Maybe I'm going to start a business in planted troughs for lazy people...  ;)
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