Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Seedy Subjects! => Grow From Seed => Topic started by: David Nicholson on January 17, 2007, 07:49:20 PM
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Through the SRGC Seed Exchange I have seed of Cyclamen africanum, C. rohlfsianum, and C. graecum album and have been casting around for advice on sowing times, composts etc. There is quite a bit of information on the Cyclamen Society Web Site but some of it is a bit dated and quite frankly I was confused by some of it.
In his Article "Bulbs from Seed" our Bulb Despot talks about seed sowing "windows" but in the context of Frits, Crocus and Narcissus, my question is - is there a "window" for cyclamen and if so I would welome advice as to when it could be? Some articles on the Cyclamen Socitey Web Site argued for keeping newly sown seed in the dark until germination, and I would welcome views on this as well.
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David,
I would not dare presume the experience or expertise of Ian and his like when it comes to seed sowing but I can say that cyclamen have responded to my very simply sowing regime which is the same for all seed - sow it as soon as you get it, put a good layer of grit on top and leave outside to take the winter weather. With cyclamen germination has always been perfectly reliable using this method.
Paddy
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Hi, David, have a look at Bulb Log no. 02, from 11th January 2006 and Bulb Log No. 38 from 20th September 2006, they both deal with cyclamen seed.
Cheers,
Ian
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Again not arguing with Mr Despot, I recieved some Cyclamen from the exchange and they were sown at the weekend. The hardier species go outside and the less hardy in the unheated greenhouse. The seed you list,David, would go in the greenhouse but then the daffodils are not in flower up here yet!
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Thanks Ian,David and Paddy. I shall take a mix of advice and sow them deep and leave them outside and see what happens. I'm impressed you have already sown your Exchange seed David. Although I am retired, and in theory have all the time in the world, I am always at the last push (maybe I have too much time available and don't do the planning-and then find it's too late!). Stiil, that's life.
Is there any chance in the future of the Bulb Log being made fully searchable Ian?
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Hi David
A fully searchable bulb log would be very nice and I will look into it but it could involve a lot of extra work doing it retrospectively.
However I suggest that you use Google, type in sowing cyclamen seed, for instance, and run a UK search, the first two hits are the bulb log.
I use Google all the time as an index for the bulb log and invariably it comes up trumps.
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What you type into Google is:
site:www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog cyclamen
and it then just searches the bulblog.
It is easy to set up a button on your web site that uses Google to search it. There's an example of how to do this on the Google site.
David Pilling
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Hi David
I grow quite a lot of cyclamen from seed and with my own seed it does just get put into a pot, given a good grit 'hat' and put somewhere out of the way outside or in the cold frame for the less hardy species. They then grow pretty well. I leave them in the pot and am only now beginning to think about potting plants on which have been in their sowing pots for about 3 years. These plastic pots have begun to bulge rather alarmingly!
With seed which is not fresh, ie any seed I get from exchanges, soaking it does seem to help and the change in the size of the seed after a day in water can be huge, some seed seems to at least quadruple in volume (double in size). I'm not the sort of tidy person who has lots of space for biscuit tins full of seed pots, but a friend who grows huge amounts of cyclamen recommends the 'keep them in the dark' method so this year I'm going to try that with some of my Cyclamen society and other seed.
Sue
PS I can recommend the Cyclamen Society, if only for their seed list, most of their activities are in the 'deep south'
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Ian, Im sure you have quite enough on without my suggestion. I will try David Pilling's Google "trick" if I can get that to work it solves the problem.
Sue, thanks for responding-they are probably much hardier than I give them credit for. Interesting that you are going to try them in the dark-will this be inside or outside?
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One of the methods on the Cyclamen Society web site is called the Reading method. Having had poor or no germination from seed delivered in December or January I tried this - keeping the moist pots of seed in an old briefcase in the airing cupboard. I can say that most suprisingly nearly all seed germinated within 8/10 weeks. The only problem was that because of the lack of light they were to say the least drawn but on removal to the glasshouse this did not seem to matter and I managed to keep most growing over their first summer. They have continued to grow and are becoming quite healthy plants and it did at least probably save a years wait. I hope this year to get my seeds at the end of the summer but if you get them at this time of the year it is definitely worth a try
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That's why I sow 'em deep, then they are in the dark.
And we don't have an airing cupboard.
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Ian how can I query the Bulb Despot ::) but the other thing mentioned regarding the Reading method (by the way I think wthat this was experiments at Reading University) was that the the airing cupboard was to guarantee a min temp of 68 deg f which presumably helped.
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Hi, All, I thought that a temperature of 68 F was only necessary for Florist's cyclamen seed, i.e. persicum types? I seem to remember that being mentioned many years ago when I was growing some of those types from commercial seed. I keep telling the BD that I'd like a steady temp in the house of something like that, fat lot of good that does me, never mind the seeds!
If such heat were needed, why do they grow okay when we sow them outside in the garden? Aberdeen isn't exactly the banana belt.
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BD has just told me he thinks that while they do do okay outside, if we wanted to force them, than that heat would be the way... now how can I convince him that I need the heat too?
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I grew cyclamen hederifolium by soaking the seed, then putting it in a zip seal bag with a piece of kitchen towel, keeping that in the dark at about 60F.
As each seed germinated I transferred it to the surface of a pot of seedling compost. They're interesting to watch because they blow a sort of pink bubble.
The advantage is that one keeps control of the seed, stick it in a pot and it is hard to find again.
I'm not saying the above is a good way. In the light of what I've read in the bulb log and elsewhere I'm inclined to do things differently in future.
From sowing Jan 2005 some flowered in autumn 2006.
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David P. says
I'm not saying the above is a good way. In the light of what I've read in the bulb log and elsewhere I'm inclined to do things differently in future.
David, if your method is working for you then that's great, why change it? Especially since it is letting you observe interesting features like pink bubbles etc--I think that is terrific to be noticing those things. It exactly that sort of observation that Ian loves to make of his plants. Ian explains how he does things and whether or not they work for him - he's not saying that his way is the only way, just that it works here, usually after long years of trial and experiment ! If it were not for the fact that he is now fast asleep, I am sure he would remind you of ye olde adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
We'll see if he calls me a liar tomorrow!
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Maggi a good strategy or a strong hint might be to wear an overcoat and balaclava to bed. Now I'd better go and lie down now ;D but first a fresh banana from the garden
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A couple of years ago we were discussing mini cyclamen on the forum. I collected some seed from ours and sowed them in a pot in the greenhouse where they are now growing nicely. No 63C involved.
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63oC - now that is the sort of treatment banana seeds require, not cyclamen?
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Ian McEnery, how is it that you know what my wife wears to bed? Does Pam know about this?
As it happens, I find Maggi very fetching in her sheepskin balaclava, coat and hiking socks.
Yes, Anthony, 63 degrees C is a bit too warm even for M! 68 degrees F is not warm enough for her, though!!
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Thanks all for the timely advice on sowing cyclamen seed - I just received some seed of cyclamen adjaricum from Dr Pilous today & now know what to do
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I haven't got past the socks! ???
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Ian Y so I've been caught out OK I own up i owe it all to very good binoculars and a fertile imagination. Anyway its what Pam wears and our house is too warm judging by the gas bill ;D
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Dear Chris, just in case you didn't know, Cyclamen adjaricum is an invalid name for C. coum subsp. caucasicum. In my opinion, the latter is also on shaky ground too as there do not seem to be any pure colonies of subsp. caucasicum (heart shaped leaves and slightly larger flowers). Colonies appear to be mixed with some plants fitting the description of subsp. caucasicum and others fitting the description of subsp. coum. It would be crazy to walk around these colonies labelling each plant individually as subsp. this and subsp. that.
I think that the subsp. should be dropped and all plants called simply, Cyclamen coum.
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Tim - thanks for mentioning it - I will label it as Cyclamen coum (sourced from Chakva near Batumi, Adjaria, Georgia)
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I am an advocate of the wet papertowel method. I have Cyclamen seed germinating in as little as 3 weeks. In fact, many of my seeds start the journey to growing-up in papertowel. One can put a lot of "dreams" in a zip-lock bag!
Success to all in germinating those seeds, no matter how! :)
Charlotte
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I've got c. persicum (mine) seedlings and c. graecum (SRGC seed) coming along in my cold room. I'm assuming that once started they require more light but should still stay on the cool side?
My reference book, AHS Plant Propagation - Alan Toogood, Editor, says: to sow in same mix as described above and then seal the pots in clear plastic bags (which is what I did), once germination occurs, remove from bag. Transplant the seedlings as soon as large enough to handle, or, if the seedlings are not crowded, leave them for a year and pot the tubers singly when dormant (this option is not for c. persicum hybrids).
My question is, then what do I do with the c. persicum seedlings? This is my first shot at cyclamen seedlings of any sort so I'm kind of confused. One site I came across advised the cyclamen from seed 'was best left to professionals'. ::) Planting any of them outdoors is not an option here in zone 3 so pot culture it will be.
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Linda,
The growing advice for Cyclamen seedlings from Alan would be good to follow. I grow all my seedlings in that way, either repotting in the second/third year or putting them out into the garden.
I do not find the C. persicum (species type) any different for handling. I keep all seedlings growing for as long as possible & when they have lost their leaves keep them on the dry side, watering only sparingly. I had placed a persicum seedling into a small trough & kept it outside in a protected area, ie the windowsill, all the winter. It is now flowering for the first time. Hooray!! This means it has survived a -5°C temperature, slightly tempered by the warmth of the house.
Nothing is certain in the gardening world - just enjoy the experience.
Best regards,
Charlotte