Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: mark smyth on June 01, 2008, 08:23:30 AM

Title: Narcissus fly
Post by: mark smyth on June 01, 2008, 08:23:30 AM
The Ulster Group had a day out yesterday to three fantastic gardens in Dublin. Two of these gardens had bigger problems with Narcissus fly than I do. The owners had good collections of Narcissus and Galanthus with lots of yellow leaves present. They werent aware of the fly being present in their gardens. This leads me to believe everyone who grows Amarllidaceae has it but cant recognise the fly or distinguish it from bees/hoverflies and blow flies.

Talking to Brian Duncan who was on the trip he says go to your local agricultural supplier and buy any produce that contains Dimethoate and from mid May spray your collection including the holes where the bulbs emerge.

I urge you to watch your garden the next sunny day and look for a small, bee mimic, fly flying slowly around the leaves of bulbs. They arrive fast and then slowly fly around landing on various leaves and bare soil. They like to sun bathe on wide leaves and rocks. The loves to feed on Geranium flowers - not an excuse to dump all of your plants. You have to tidy away the leaves! While I was in the Burren last week I visited a snowdrop collector who has a large collection of Galanthus and Narcissus. I was amazed to see all the yellow and dead leaves of his collection still present.
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on June 01, 2008, 08:44:01 AM
For Mark and all the other galanthophiles, threatened by narcissus fly.

Here are some experience from Germany, but only in german.

http://www.engelmannii.de/bilder/galanthus/narzissenfliege.htm (http://www.engelmannii.de/bilder/galanthus/narzissenfliege.htm)

Weidmanns Heil
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: mark smyth on June 01, 2008, 09:47:27 AM
Hagen could you translate for us us please?
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: mark smyth on June 01, 2008, 02:26:09 PM
Rob you will be OK but the family of plants they go for includes
Amaryllis
Clivia
Crinum
Eucharis
Galanthus
Habranthus
Hippeastrum
Hymenocallis
Leucojum
Lycoris
Narcissus
Pancratium
Sprekelia
Sternbergia
Zephyranthes

Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: mark smyth on June 01, 2008, 10:01:26 PM
"are these quite slow insects?"

quite the opposite
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on June 02, 2008, 05:55:37 AM
Hi rob,
have you one, so have you all !

Here the flies come only, when I`m at home.
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on June 02, 2008, 06:03:54 AM
Good morning Mark,

I know, that you like both, the informations about the fly and my excellent english. But my text is too big and next weekend we have an "OPEN GARDEN" for everyone. So I haven`t the time for tranlating in best quality. Be sure, your experience is the same! But you can listening the flies on my site!!!
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: mark smyth on June 02, 2008, 07:38:33 AM
Excellent Hagen. Everyone should go and listen. Left of the 3rd row of flies click on Hörprobe gefällig? The high pitched 'scooter' is the Narcissus fly.
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on June 02, 2008, 09:13:49 AM
Hi Mark, yes, your tip for the button is helpful.
I catched ca. 25 flies and put them in a net. Hoped all flies of the garden will come to the same place. Sadly not. All noises were made by flies. When the insects are angry, they are rubbing the wings together. This is the very high pitch. (excellent english, or ;D). Hope you can often listen these noises in your hands. And seldom you have swollen fingers!
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on June 02, 2008, 09:32:41 PM
Rob, the first thing is: listening
the second: seeing.
It would be much easier, when we had some time together for catching .
The flies looking for good places, they aren`t angry between us. So they are slow. But when you are hunting, then they are flying very fast.
I`m  a bad teacher. Sorry
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: mark smyth on June 03, 2008, 07:30:45 PM
It's not a loud sound just distinctive and possibly unique to the fly
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: mark smyth on June 04, 2008, 09:25:31 PM
Did you listen to the link?
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Paul T on June 10, 2008, 12:43:58 PM
Excellent Hagen. Everyone should go and listen. Left of the 3rd row of flies click on Hörprobe gefällig? The high pitched 'scooter' is the Narcissus fly.

Mark,

"scooter"?  I'm unfamiliar with that in terms of sound?  Are you meaning the higher squeal, a bit like air escaping from a balloon?  There are so many different buzzes in that sound byte that I don't know what I'm supposed to focus on, or are they all Narcissus fly?
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Gerard Oud on June 10, 2008, 05:41:06 PM
I think Paul, when they have been squashed by Hagen they sound  much higher.
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: mark smyth on June 10, 2008, 10:01:35 PM
Paul do you know the phrase "wasp in a tin can"?
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Paul T on June 11, 2008, 07:20:38 AM
So it's more of an echo-ey sound then, not that high pitched one that buzzes by in the sound byte?
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Anthony Darby on June 11, 2008, 09:25:29 AM
Ah scooters. Now there's an annoying sound! Not for nothing are they called Vespas :D
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Anthony Darby on June 11, 2008, 09:31:45 AM
Excellent Hagen. Everyone should go and listen. Left of the 3rd row of flies click on Hörprobe gefällig? The high pitched 'scooter' is the Narcissus fly.

Several flies there doing different things. The lower pitched sounds are flies in flight. The higher pitched ones are the trapped flies just vibrating their wings.
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Anthony Darby on June 11, 2008, 09:33:49 AM
I didn't notice that before on the link oops!, I listened to the recording and it certainly was peculiar.
it wasn't constant, but varied: almost like the struggling sounds you get from trapped flies in Sarracenia tubes...

Rob

Exactly right Rob.
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on June 11, 2008, 09:58:49 AM
The lower pitched sounds are flies in flight. Thehigher pitched ones are the trapped flies just vibrating their wings.
Yes, Anthony, it is so!
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on June 11, 2008, 10:01:35 AM
Here is another link for looking the fly
http://idw-online.de/pages/de/image10555 (http://idw-online.de/pages/de/image10555)
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on June 11, 2008, 10:04:56 AM
Here is another link for looking the fly
http://idw-online.de/pages/de/image10555 (http://idw-online.de/pages/de/image10555)
Please have a look to the vains/wires of the wings. This is most important to differ the narcissus fly from others
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Maggi Young on February 28, 2009, 01:37:42 PM
With some word from Forumists that early Narcissus flies have been seen, I remind you bulb growers to be vigilant.

Seems VERY early, but you never know!
And a reminder of the page from the Old Forum on this subject...
http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/8/22416.html
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: mark smyth on February 28, 2009, 01:45:13 PM
Who has seen a Narcissus fly? They shouldnt be out for another two months at the earliest
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Maggi Young on February 28, 2009, 01:48:33 PM
Can't remember, Mark.... it may have been a comment in an email rather than the Forum ..... put the fear in me so much I have been chasing suspicious looking flying objects round the garden all morning.
Ian captured a couple and we have decided that they are just some kind of dark hover fly..... no stripes like summer hovers and no fuzz like the bee mimic narcissus flies..... they buzz good-oh in a jar though..... but I'm just away to let them go..... there are plenty aphids for "good" flies to be munchingon!
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: mark smyth on February 28, 2009, 01:57:47 PM
Drone fly most likely. No need to panic until mid to late April. Dont worry I'll raise the alarm when I see one
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Paddy Tobin on February 28, 2009, 02:51:11 PM
A large sward of narcissus fly was spotted today in Waterford. When questioned, they said they were on their way to Antrim.

Paddy
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: mark smyth on February 28, 2009, 03:31:05 PM
If only they know what's waiting for them when they arrive!
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on May 03, 2009, 06:18:40 AM
The time of narcissus fly begins here. I caught the first four yesterday. :(
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on June 26, 2009, 06:58:30 AM
frequently asked question: where does the narcissus fly come from? Here is the answer
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on June 26, 2009, 07:01:10 AM
all-clear signal: this year the season of the narcissusfly is over, here in Europe
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Brian Ellis on June 26, 2009, 08:45:40 AM
We can all breathe a sigh of relief 8)
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: mark smyth on June 26, 2009, 01:54:29 PM
no, our brillant summer has been good for them and us. After the first two weeks of June there was a lull but some are out and about again
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Brian Ellis on June 26, 2009, 01:58:50 PM
Oh drat!
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: mark smyth on June 26, 2009, 02:28:25 PM
Brian hopefully we will be fly free in a week or ten days.

I hope everyone knows them, how to spot them and hear them!?
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Eric Locke on June 26, 2009, 10:38:19 PM

More a problem with wasps this year I feel. >:( >:( >:(

Eric
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Tony Willis on October 09, 2009, 04:49:54 PM
Is this a narcissus fly ?
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: mark smyth on October 09, 2009, 04:59:00 PM
No tony that's a good guy more so for pollination. It's a dronefly. No Narcissus fly active in the UK at this time of year
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Tony Willis on October 09, 2009, 05:11:43 PM
Mark thanks I knew you would know.

I had my first narcissus fly problem last year  on only one bulb a phaedranassa which I found when repotting in the spring. I do not want any more.
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: mark smyth on October 09, 2009, 07:30:54 PM
Unfortunately there will more grubs in bulbs.
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: mark smyth on November 06, 2009, 09:55:57 PM
Did everyone see Narcissus flies mating on Autumn Watch tonight? Make sure you look back on iplayer tomorrow. Go to the last 5 minutes of the show
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Anthony Darby on November 07, 2009, 10:19:29 AM
I'm curious to know how they linked that with Autumn?
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: mark smyth on November 07, 2009, 06:18:15 PM
someone sent in a video of two flies mating while making a high pitched whine
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Maggi Young on November 07, 2009, 06:39:36 PM
I'm curious to know how they linked that with Autumn?
The Team had simply asked for photos and videos to be sent in....no Autumn relevance needed.
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: mark smyth on November 08, 2009, 07:24:57 PM
Only Maggi and I watch Autumn Watch? I would have thought the programme would be more popular with UK forum members
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Michael J Campbell on November 08, 2009, 07:50:15 PM
Mark,I always watch it,much better than some of the c**p on the other channels at the same time.
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: mark smyth on November 08, 2009, 09:16:01 PM
very true. There are so many good wild life programmes on now
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: mark smyth on November 16, 2009, 10:01:07 AM
Something has happened that will either save my bulbs from the fly or bring a plague. The Housing Exec has just planted 1000s of Narcissus in front of my row of houses
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: mark smyth on November 16, 2009, 12:02:59 PM
80,000! I just asked. They brought in a Dutch man to plant them with a special machine. It makes a an upside down T in the ground, drops in bulbs and closes the hole. He is followed by 6 men he tramp the ground flat again. He will plant millions in my council area. He leaves the north to head down south and across to England.
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Maggi Young on November 16, 2009, 12:10:25 PM
That's a lot of daffs...... any chance of a photo of the machine at work?
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: mark smyth on November 16, 2009, 12:43:18 PM
Maggi, I thought of it and didnt do it. I'm just back in from the job centre and they are away. Maybe I'll have a wee  drive around looking for them
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: mark smyth on November 17, 2009, 11:28:23 AM
He left for England straight after planting the bulbs. In my estate he planted 250,000 daffodils. He got £8000 for planting bulbs in my borough council area.
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on November 17, 2009, 12:44:23 PM
A picture of the bulbfield in flower will do Mark !!
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: mark smyth on November 17, 2009, 01:16:07 PM
Now or later Luc? These bulbs are so densly planted I think they will fail in a year or two.
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on November 17, 2009, 02:02:36 PM
Now or later Luc? These bulbs are so densly planted I think they will fail in a year or two.

I think it should look at it's best in flower Mark ...  ;)
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: mark smyth on November 17, 2009, 02:46:23 PM
well here's the before shot
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Maggi Young on November 22, 2009, 04:36:48 PM
Narcissus Fly: see also these pages :

http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4405.0

http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4297.0    lesser narcissus fly

http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=204.0

http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3690.0 latest, Narc sect.

Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Martin Baxendale on July 05, 2010, 11:29:41 PM
I'm still killing narcissus flies in the garden here, so it seems to be a late season for them and other snowdrop growers might want to keep an eye out for them. Snowdrop leaves should be well shrivelled by now, but the flies can still find them if they're not cleared away - I've seen and killed flies over the last few days obviously being attracted to dried up snowdrop leaves I haven't got around to clearing and composting (I'll be clearing them all up tomorrow, if time allows). 
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Warren Desmond on November 10, 2010, 06:22:38 PM
Hi All

Came across my first sighting of the Narcissus larva a couple of months ago  :o   (sept 2010)
while digging around in the front garden I thought I would take a gentle look to see how my Galanthus Magnet were doing..approx 100+ bulbs were there I thought built up over the last 5 years...lost about half either last year or over 2 years..

Have been recommended Bonide fruit tree spray...no idea whether it works or not.. but willing to have a go...I found the information on previous posts on this subject a huge help as if this doesn't work I have access to agriculture sprays from my previous life as a farming contractor..
I will keep you update'd on my progress or maybe lack of it  :-\

Cheers Warren
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: mark smyth on November 10, 2010, 06:26:08 PM
 :o Did you find those after or before using Bonide fruit tree spray?
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: annew on November 10, 2010, 07:14:26 PM
yuk!  :-X Before I hope!
Title: Re: Narcissus fly
Post by: Warren Desmond on November 10, 2010, 11:02:54 PM
:o Did you find those after or before using Bonide fruit tree spray?

Before..got a bottle the other day..so the plan is to use it next year as a trial...have checked about 20 or so types of Galanthus in my back garden and thankfully seem to be ok.. :)

Looks like (as for now)they only had the ones in the front garden....from now on will be extra vigilant..!!
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