Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: Lvandelft on May 08, 2008, 06:48:35 PM

Title: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Lvandelft on May 08, 2008, 06:48:35 PM
Because Zhirair (Boyed) made a note about black tulips, after I showed one in Weekly Lisse Flowershow,
I thought it might be interesting to show some black ones, which I pictured this spring
at the Connoisseur Collection.
I start with the one from Lisse. Then the next one followed by a selection which
stays longer black when flowering is almost over.
Then a range very dark ones, but not really black.

Tulipa black
Tulipa SLG Philippe de Comines
Tulipa SLG Black Horse  '02                             
Tulipa Triumph Group Lady Night H.v.Dr '07.                         
Tulipa Triumph Group Havran Av. Bu. '05 3                   
Tulipa Triumph Group Havran Av. Bu. '05     
Tulipa Triumph Group Black Jack  H.v.Dr. '06     
Tulipa Fringed Groep Black Jewel PCN '06   
Tulipa SLG Bacchus          (It's Bacchus, not Bucchus)                         
Tulipa SLG Zulu Hort. Bulb. '96 3                               
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Lvandelft on May 08, 2008, 06:50:51 PM
In the second batch first a double black and a Parrot black,
followed after the most famous black tulip.
Out of this one there exists a white selection wich i liked very much.
The last one is for me and for Mr. Connoisseur the most black one
besides the one of the Flowershow ofcourse.


Tulipa DLG Black Hero v.T. '99 
Tulipa Parrot Group Black Parrot
Tulipa SLG Queen of Night
Tulipa SLG Queen of Night Mut. white 1                     
Tulipa SLG Queen of Night Mut. white 4                   
Tulipa SLG Black Beauty Frans Ro. '96     
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Maggi Young on May 08, 2008, 07:50:46 PM
A most interesting series of photos, Luit.  The new black from Lisse show seems to be the most black... but, of course, it was a photo taken inside, whereas the others are in the Connoisseur's fields so perhaps the comparison is a little unfair. I am very taken by the shape of 'Havran', it is most elegant... but, and i am embarrasssed to say this when the subject is black tulips... but that white sport of Queen of the Night is the most beautiful of all. The colour to the edge of the petals and that stunning centre to the flower is just delicious!  Did I miss this one in the Connoisseur's collection photos? :-[
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: David Nicholson on May 08, 2008, 08:10:22 PM
I suppose that growers will always strive to breed a pure black tulip but I think I prefer the dark reds.
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Lvandelft on May 08, 2008, 08:54:00 PM
Maggi, I did make several hundreds more pictures, but I got the feeling,
there became less interest. So I am thinking of making shorter series
of some specials, when Forumists have special wishes.
And this note about 'blacks' was such an opportunity.
I do have pictures enough, though not all of the Collection.
And I still make more of the later flowering ones and also many late flowering Narcissus.
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Lesley Cox on May 08, 2008, 10:36:03 PM
I agree that the Lisse one is the blackest, a real stunner. What is that speckling on its petals though?
And yes, I too think the white is a great beauty with her black heart.
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Roma on May 08, 2008, 10:54:51 PM
I bought 10 Black Horse tulips last October from John (Jacques ) Amand at the SRGC Discussion weekend.  They are coming into flower now.  In one group of 5 , 3 have 3 flowering stems and 2 have 2.  The other group mostly have more than one flower.  Where there are 3 flowers two are the same size and the third one smaller and later.  The flowers are smaller than I would expect from newly planted bulbs.  I don't grow a lot of tulips but plant a few occasionally. I have never seen multiple flowering stems on tulips before. Have other Forum members seen this happen?
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Lvandelft on May 09, 2008, 08:24:40 AM
I agree that the Lisse one is the blackest, a real stunner. What is that speckling on its petals though?
And yes, I too think the white is a great beauty with her black heart.

Lesley, the tulips were sprayed against Tulip fire.
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Boyed on May 09, 2008, 09:08:48 AM
Maggi,

It is quite difficult to say what tulip is the blackest as the camera do not always catches the real colour and it also depend from the day time and conditions when the photo was taken. So far I know that the darkest 'black' tulips today is still very old and very small-flowered 'La Tulip Noir'.
'Havran' is, indeed, beautiful, having a nice elongated shape of flower. It is bred in Chzech pepublic by Vacklavic, as other famous tulips as 'Gavota' and 'Rajka', which have the same elegant shape.

Luit,
thanks a lot for the pictures.
I always wait for your wonderful photos with great pleasure and very happy that you are in this forum. Relating black tulips, one of our Russian breeders in Moscow grows  very blak tulip, called "Black Leader'. Soon I will show its pics when I'll be at the office. It is quite impressive. He grows many interesting cultivars, including many his own intriductions, which he registeres in Holland in collaboration with VERTUCO.
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Lvandelft on May 09, 2008, 10:58:44 PM
I have never seen multiple flowering stems on tulips before. Have other Forum members seen this happen?

Well Roma, I'll show you some tulips which have multiple flowering stems.
Of the first one I was to late, there was only one single flower left.
Of the other ones several are still available.

Tulipa SLG Candy Club H.v.Dr. '02           
Tulipa SLG Claudette                     
Tulipa SLG Georgette             
Tulipa SLG Orange Georgette H.v.Dr. '94               
Tulipa SLG Roulette 2       
Tulipa SLG Wallflower 1           
Tulipa SLG Wallflower 2     
Tulipa Triumph Group Whole Family                         
Tulipa Triumph Group Orange Bouquette     
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Maggi Young on May 10, 2008, 10:32:20 AM
I have no photo, but Tulipa 'Toronto' is multi-headed.... it is a salmon-pink colour
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Lvandelft on May 10, 2008, 01:49:57 PM
Here is a photo, but I have only one of younger bulbs with single flowers.
As I already had one with a single flower, I didn't show it.
Here it is (for the records).
Tulipa Greigii Group Toronto
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Maggi Young on May 10, 2008, 01:57:18 PM
hmm, that is not the one I mean... perhaps there is another, not a Greigii group?
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Lvandelft on May 10, 2008, 06:49:25 PM
Maggi, I'm not sure about that.
Anna Pavord at least mentions the Greigii tulip,
which was raised in 1963 in the same place where I live, of which this
year appr. 26 Ha. is cultivated.
But there exists also a Double Toronto with multiple flowers, belonging to
the Double Early Group.
I may have my doubts that you are meaning this one.... ???   :o    8)
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Maggi Young on May 10, 2008, 07:21:32 PM
No, Luit, not a double.... :-X
I "googled" and found these photos which show the colour mine were ....
two of these pix do show a greigii type, which mine were not  :-\

http://www.pbase.com/peterasmith/image/93898344
http://shop.edenproject.com/khxc/gbu0-prodshow/PS-MANIA049.html
http://personal.inet.fi/luonto/amigo.jardin/Tulppaani_Toronto.htm


Actually, the first time I bought them, which I did because they were multi-headed, only one came with more than one flower. Overthe years they did grow but never made any more multi flowers... Then I got some more, which did multi flower, but they died out quicker than the first lot!

I will go now to see if I can find any still remaining under a bush!
........no, not a one left! :'(
 
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Roma on May 10, 2008, 09:02:09 PM
Thanks for your replies Luit and Maggi.  When I think about it I do know of multistem tulips but I did not think Black Horse was one.  I'm another forum member who has senior moments!

Roma

Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Lvandelft on May 10, 2008, 09:22:10 PM
O.k. Maggi, I think I better try to talk to Mr. Connoisseur about this matter.
Otherwise we are repeating something like the famous Crocus Ruby G.   ;D ;D

But as I was at the Hortus Bulborum I had a short talk with the man who does
supervise this garden about some old tulips, because I had seen a few multiflowered plants
in T. Golden Harvest.
This tulip was raised in 1928 and it was one of the tulips my father grew in his nursery,
where I have learned to work with bulbs from planting, to weeding, to pick-off all the flowers, to
digging them out and cleaning them and store them untill planting time again and I never liked it.
So I have seen this tulip for many years and there were never multiflowered stems,
that's why I asked the man in charge.
He told me that he has noticed this a few years ago for the first time in this tulip and
he did not know why this suddenly happened.
I have one picture where it is (alas not so clearly) shown, but you have to believe me.

Tulipa SLG Golden Harvest
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Maggi Young on May 10, 2008, 09:33:26 PM
Golden Harvest is very bright.. I like that.
Luit, I do not think we need another c. Ruby saga!! Bear in mind that I bought these tulip bulbs as packets in the garden centre from a large firm and we all know that such purchases may not be true to name  :-[
Such as the packet of  yellow Sternbergia bulbs we bought many years ago which turned out to be Sternbergia candida...of course, that was, for us, a good mistake ::)
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Lvandelft on May 11, 2008, 07:55:17 AM
Quote
Bear in mind that I bought these tulip bulbs as packets in the garden centre from a large firm and we all know that such purchases may not be true to name   

I was expecting something like this, Maggi.


As you might say so nice:    "There is often a clue"     8)  ;)
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Boyed on May 12, 2008, 05:57:22 AM
Maggi,

Relating multiflowered tulips;

There some tulips with permanent multiflowering habit as 'Georgette', 'Florette', etc. Some as 'Angeligue', 'Toronto', 'Quebeck' have a tenedensy to produce multiflowered stems, especially from top-sized bulbs and from the bulbs, which was treated to high temperatures in August. Some single flowered tulips as Darwin Hybrids 'Holland's Glorie', "Forgotten Dremas" and "Eric Hofsjo" produce multiple floweres some years. If the bulbs of single tulips undertake special temperature treatment in August they flower with their small daughter bulbs.
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Boyed on May 12, 2008, 06:06:49 AM
As I promissed I post some black tulip photos from that Moscow breeder's garden. he states that the Single late variety "Black Leader" is the blackes among his 'black' tulips.

'Black Beauty',
'Black Leader',
'Black Magic',
'Black Parrot',
'Queen of Night'


Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Boyed on May 12, 2008, 06:19:24 AM
And few pictures from my Ukrainian friend Dima's garden:

"Africas Prncess' (V. Skuja) - the darkest fringed tulips
"Black Leader"

Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Lesley Cox on May 12, 2008, 08:33:46 PM
What a treat these are Zhirair. Positively scrumptious ;D I adore 'Black Leader' and from the second to last picture, it obviously has very attractive foliage too, a lovely sea-green shade and very healthy-looking.
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Armin on May 12, 2008, 10:54:25 PM
Impressive - such black ones! :o
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Jim McKenney on May 13, 2008, 12:45:57 AM
As I promissed I post some black tulip photos from that Moscow breeder's garden.



I was surprised to see that when the names are given in Russian (on the images) they are the same names we use in English. Is this generally true, or are there other names used in Russian speaking areas?

Under any names these are exciting!
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Lvandelft on May 13, 2008, 06:00:19 AM
Zhirair, I think too that Black Leader beats all Black Tulips till now.
Interesting is the shape of the flowers, which is the same as I saw
here kast week when I pictured the black one last week.
There was another one there with the same shape of flower, but
due to the bad light I have no good picture of that one.
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Boyed on May 13, 2008, 06:17:15 AM
Jim,

Russian names sound quite different. Those tulips were given just English names. And the name "Africas Princes" is Latvian.

Luit,

Tulip "Black Leader", is indeed, very deep and has a nice shape. The breeder V.K. Khondyrev also thinks the same way. There is other very dark near-black Russian tulip, called "Anikushin", bred by famous Russian botanist Z.M. Silina. I obtained it last autumn, but, unfortunately, all the samples were virus-infected. I will try to get it from another source.
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Lvandelft on May 13, 2008, 06:24:04 AM
Here is the picture of the other black tulip, which I did not show before
because of the bad quality.
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Boyed on May 13, 2008, 06:26:49 AM
Luit,

it looks really dark, though I know that in bad light black tulips turned out to look very darker. My tulipa "Queen of Night" looks nearly the same in the pictures made in poor light.
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Jim McKenney on May 13, 2008, 04:57:44 PM
Jim,

Russian names sound quite different. Those tulips were given just English names. And the name "Africas Princes" is Latvian.


Zhirair, I’m going to ask my question again.

In the image of Tulipa ‘Black Beauty’ which you posted from a Russian source, I can read at the margin of the image the Russian name Тюльпан Блэк Бьюти, which transliterates as Tulipan Black Beauty.

This raises two questions from me.

1.   When this tulip is sold in countries which use the Cyrillic alphabet, is the name Тюльпан Блэк Бьюти used or is there a truly Russian name used? For instance, is Блэк Бьюти translated into true Russian?

2.   Does anyone know why the Russian word for tulip, Тюльпан, is spelled that way and not Тульпан? It is curious: in English, the word tulip is often pronounced tyoulip (what I’m trying to indicate here is that the vowel u is pronounced as a semivowel, like, for instance, ju in German, or the sound you in English). But the word Tulipa as a New Latin word uses the pure vowel u. Does anyone know what the vowel sound is in Turkish? Is it a pure u vowel sound or is it the semivowel sound? Did the word Тюльпан come into Russian directly from Turkish? Or did it come from English usage? It seems unlikely that it came into English from Russian.

My apologies if I've botched the transliteration into Cyrillic.
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: olegKon on May 13, 2008, 09:04:29 PM
Jim, we never translate the names of veriеties. In the catalogues in garden centers and in conversations the names are given transliterated the way you put it тюльпан Блэк Бьюти. As for the second question, I don't think the word тюльпан is a borrowing from English. Still Turkey is nextdoor country, so it might be a direct borrowing
Oleg
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Boyed on May 23, 2008, 05:55:59 AM
I showed some Russian varieties in TULIPA thread and now I would like to show black tulip ‘Anikushin’ (again bred by Z.M. Silina), grown by my Ukraininan collegue D. Zubov. This variety has quite dark flowers and larger than those ‘black’ cultivars, sold in the market.
Title: Re: BLACK (?) TULIPS
Post by: Armin on May 23, 2008, 09:43:38 PM
Zhirair,
wow :o veeery impressive 8)
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