Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Plant Identification => Plant Identification Questions and Answers => Topic started by: Lvandelft on April 28, 2008, 10:46:16 PM
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I have several Uvularia in my garden.
But I have two different U. grandiflora. One is the normally seen yellow with nice big flowers,
but I have one with much more orange coloured flowers.
Would like to know if this is a special variety.
I believe I bought it during the last few years, but cannot remember where.
Pictures:
Uvularia for ID
Uvularia gr.fl. to compare
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Luit, normally I would think of the stronger colour as being U. grandiflora andthe paler version as U. perfoliata......not sure WHY I think this, that is the problem :-[
On the old forum, http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/10449.html, well down the page, there is a post by John Forrest, Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 1:20 pm: which shows two forms he has and this is how he calls his, too.
Interesting page that one from the archived Forum, actually, there are wonderful photos of Mr Amazing's Lewisias and all sorts of other great plants, I have enjoyed looking through it again! :D
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Luit, normally I would think of the stronger colour as being U. grandiflora andthe paler version as U. perfoliata......not sure WHY I think this, that is the problem :-[
On the old forum, http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/10449.html, well down the page, there is a post by John Forrest, Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 1:20 pm: which shows two forms he has and this is how he calls his, too.
Interesting page that one from the archived Forum, actually, there are wonderful photos of Mr Amazing's Lewisias and all sorts of other great plants, I have enjoyed looking through it again! :D
Maggi, I think there will be more different forms in the wild too. My problem is that I have two different U. grandiflora now,(one is earlier) and this one for ID. And I grow Uvularia flava, which might be the same as U. perfoliata, which was shown by John Forrest . And his U. grandiflora looks the same as my U. grandiflora.
But I remember some cultivar name with....."Winston" or something like that.??
It was good looking back these pages in the Old Forum. Now you can see who are the real Forum Diehards.
And........... that April was a (partly) cold one too. ::) ::) 8)
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To me Uvularia grandiflora and perfoliata are very different plants. Grandiflora tends to stay in the same place and bulks up where as perfoliata runs around with underground white roots. Grandiflora is also twice the height of perfoliata. That's how I see it anyway, although I might have been wrong for a long time. Krystal grows them from seed - where are you Krystal? do they vary a lot in colour? do you of know any named forms?
Susan
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Luit, normally I would think of the stronger colour as being U. grandiflora andthe paler version as U. perfoliata......not sure WHY I think this, that is the problem :-[
On the old forum, http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/10449.html, well down the page, there is a post by John Forrest, Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 1:20 pm: which shows two forms he has and this is how he calls his, too.
Interesting page that one from the archived Forum, actually, there are wonderful photos of Mr Amazing's Lewisias and all sorts of other great plants, I have enjoyed looking through it again! :D
Luckily it's chucking it down here so I've spent the last couple of hours looking at the link Maggi gave to the old Forum and then followed up with a browse through loads of old Forum pages. Not only am I freely salivating down my jumper because of all the goodies on display but have filled three more pages in my 'wants notebook'.
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I have had an Uvularia for a few years but it hasn't flowered yet so can't say what it's like. However, its name is U. grandiflora `Colyn' (I think, label has faded) and I was told it was a better, selected form of grandiflora.
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I went to the link too David. Brought back lots of memories of super plants but BOY, didn't it take a long time to get down that whole page? Much easier on the new Forum. :D :D :D
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Luit,
I believe that ALL the plants you showed (including the one you have named "Uvularia flava") are all U. grandiflora. Size of the flowers alone would decide that.
The flowers of U. perfoliata are straw yellow (pale) and only about 2.5cm long (compared to the larger, 5cm decidedly yellow flowers of U. grandiflora).
There are only 5 recognized species, which have now been categorized into sections:
Section Uvularia (perfoliate leaves- U. grandiflora and U. perfoliata)
Section Oakesiella (sessile leaves- U. sessilifolia, puberula, floridana)
The leaves of U. perfoliata are glabrous on both sides, U. grandiflora is pubescent underneath.
U. perfoliata 60cm (short rhizomes and stolons), U. grandiflora 80cm (short rhizomes no stolons).
Uvularia grandiflora is a widespread species in this area. Flower colour varies slightly from a good, clear yellow, to a deeper lemon yellow. I think your "flava" and the lighter coloured clone are well within the range of yellows one sees here in the wild, and pretty typical of the ones growing in my own (wild) woodland here, as you will see in the posted picture.
The RHS mentions a U. grandiflora "Citrina" (flowers clear yellow), and I am aware of an anemic yellow U. grandiflora var. pallida (closer to the colour of U. perfoliata in fact).
In North America the only other cultivar I am aware of is called "Sunbonnet" (which I have not seen nor could I find an on-line picture". It is described as "having larger and brighter yellow flowers," (not orange, as you note your clone is).
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As Kristl said all shown here are U.grandiflora.
The variation in color is interesting in the wild. Those plants I have seen in Indiana, Ohio, Illinois, southwest Missouri and Arkansas have all had clear yellow flowers. The plants along the Mississippi river bluffs in Illinois have an orange stripe down the bright yellow petals and give an overall orange cast to the flower. Those in the southern Blue Ridge, northern Alabama and Georgia have been a pale yellow. Having never seen them in the northeast I cannot say what the flowers are like there.
U.perfoliata is distinct in its longer rhizomes in most of its range, but in South Carolina and North Carolina I have encountered semi-clumping large plants that are distinct in 'feel' from the shorter thing that carpets woodlands in my area.
Aaron Floden
Knoxville, TN
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Uvularia just extending here in Aberdeen....
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Thank you Kristl and Aaron for your detailed reports.
I do have the "flava" type more than 30 years in my garden and always believed what
older gardeners in Holland told me:
The darker yellow one is U. grandiflora and the one I have is wrong named with U. grandiflora.
The "flava" type, I have is at least much lower and will grow here in the "bulbsand" in full sun, but the dark yellow forms need shade here and are always much higher.
Well the bonus for me is that I have now 4 different U. grandiflora:
One is looking just like Kristl's plant growing in her place.
Two are real yellow, one of them is earlier.
And one is orange-yellow which I have only a few years.
I never had U perfoliata, but now I know it is a 'running' plant.
It would be nice to have named cultivars which are registered somewhere.
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Luit, Since you have 4 clones do you ever get seed? I never do but I only have 1 clone.
Susan
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Susan, I only see seedpods, but never seeds in it.
This morning I went out and made pictures of all four clones and surprisingly found the
label of the orange-yellow one.
It was written as Linda Winsor, but in RHS Database I found : Lynda Windsor
It was last in plantfinder of 2002, which I don't have, but maybe someone else will do, so
we can find out where it came from.
Here is the collage I made, it goes:
Clockwise from above left: Uvularia orange yellow/ yellow 2/
Yellow 1/ as flava.
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Here are a few photos. The Illinois form is really attractive and clumps nicely. The variegated one is in plant heaven, the variegation was just too much to keep it vigorous once it was separated from its 'mother.'
The Uvularia perfoliata is nice to have, but the photo shows just a small amount of the acre of covered area. It spreads vigorously and needs weeding out in small garden.
Seed pods will go pale and split at the apex into three parts and have several seeds inside. I have always had seed, but I have always lived where it grows native.
All the best,
Aaron Floden
Knoxville, TN
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Aaron....thanks for posting these. That good definitive yellow on the Illinois U. grandiflora is quite striking---have never seen such a dark colored one in the wild here. Is it possible for you to post a picture of the U. perfoliata flower? I would really like to see a realistic size comparison to grandiflora (I know it is only supposed to be about half the size of grandiflora). I don't grow it here.
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The variegated Uvularia above in Aaron's post, is the same as what I have as Disporum smilacinum `Daisetsurya' or so close it would be hard to distinguish between them. Mine is underground now so I can't check exactly.
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Here is a key to the uvularia species:
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=134281
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In the bulb log May 2003 Ian referred to two forms of Uvularia grandiflora - one with paler flowers than the other.
I have pot of Uvularia which appears to show this difference - but also a disinct difference in height, with the paler form a good 8-10cm shorter - see pic.
Is this typical?
Johnnie
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John, there is a Uvularia ID 2008 already, maybe this link will help you a little.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1714.0 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1714.0)
Probably it's better to move your new topic to the 2008 topic, I hope Maggi will do this??
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Thanks Luit, but no reference to the pale form of grandiflora.
J.
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John, I had a better look at your plant now and I think the pale form is the
one which we grew as U. flava, of which I showed a pic. on page one.
But Kristl showed about the same flowers as a pale U. grandiflora.
I'm afraid in the trade, when ordering a U. grandiflora, you might get a pale
form as well as the darker form.
I prefer the dark form, but I grow still some pale ones too and they are all year
very exposed in full sun and seem to like it in our bulb field sand.
The darker forms need always some shade and flower always later with me here.
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Thanks again Luit.
John Humphries - on the AGS site - reckons it to be perfoliata. So no lack of choice. :)
Wonder what the judges will decide on Saturday at Solihull show? ???
Wish me luck. ;D
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John, I think your pale yellow plant is the same as mine, and I reckon yours is clumpforming like mine.
Wonder what the judges will decide on Saturday at Solihull show? ???
Wish me luck. ;D
I would just send the pot into the show as Uvularia ;D Good Luck!
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Hello,
Look at the inside of the tepals. If they are papillose then you have perfoliata, if not it is grandiflora. The papillae should be visible to the naked eye. Also the backs of the leaves will be glabrous in perfoliata, and pubescent in grandiflora.
From the looks of it, it does like like some forms of perfoliata, but the common one is very rhizomatous and can be weedy. Does it have a scent?
Aaron Floden
Knoxville, TN
UT Herbarium
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I took some flowers off and photographed them for comparison. Please keep in mind that the U.perfoliata pictured is somewhat different than the U. perfoliata I see in Tennessee. This particular one is from the NW corner of South Carolina. It has a lemony fragrance and is the most attractive of the Uvularia, more so than U.puberula, which seems to dislike any attempt at cultivation. The plant here in TN will be in bloom shortly and I can add in a photo of it also.
The one on the left is U. perfoliata, Oconee County, SC. The two on the right are both grandiflora, one a pale form, the other the brighter, larger flowered Illinois form. In the photo with just perfoliata the papillae should be visible on the tepals.
Aaron Floden
Knoxville, TN
UT Herbarium
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Look at the inside of the tepals. If they are papillose then you have perfoliata, if not it is grandiflora. The papillae should be visible to the naked eye. Also the backs of the leaves will be glabrous in perfoliata, and pubescent in grandiflora.
To my innocent eyes (in terms of Uvularia ID), the leaves of grandiflora are distinctly different from perfoliata - grandiflora leaves are longer and look limp with slightly rolled back edges. U perfoliata has more rounded leaves with the obvious "perfoliate" nature. Is this a simplistic distinction?
I don't want to raise the taxonomic arguments again, but just curiousity led me to look up the Kew monocot database, and the family of Convallariaceae has disappeared down the drains of the DNA laboratory. Most of the previous family Convallariaceae (including Convallaria, Polygonatum, Disporum etc) have gone into Asparagaceae (to join all the little blue bulbs), but Uvularia has gone into Colchicaceae.
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Showed the plant at Knowle on Saturday where Vic Aspland had a Uvularia which appeared to be identical to the short form in my pot.
He was sure that the two forms were the same - Uvularia perfoliata.
Asked his view on the best time to separate them he said more or less 'rather you than me!' :o
I have attached pics of the two forms again in close up - can't see a difference myself but ,,,,,,,,,
I will probably take it to Harrogate on Saturday and later shows as long as it looks OK but after that any advice on how to separate the two - with the objective of keeping the stronger coloured tall form - would be most appreciated. ???
Johnnie D.
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Hello,
They are both U. grandiflora. Notice the pubescent abaxial leaf surface on them, and the petals of both have that twist that is seen only in U. grandiflora. I have noticed that the pale forms, at least in my garden (all with provenance) have shorter tepals than the bright yellows.
As far as dividing goes, I have done it now, a few weeks ago, just as they come through the ground, and also in the summer and fall. I view them (the genus, except U. puberula) as indestructible, but fall is probably best for the plant and the aesthetic look in the garden or pot.
Aaron Floden
Knoxville, TN
UT Herbarium
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Thanks Aaron, that is not only clear, it is most encouraging.
I will report after the event.
Cheers,
JohnnieD
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Thanks to Aaron, I've successfully confirmed the identification of two of my Uvularias today, grandiflora on the left and perfoliata: