Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Cultivation => Cultivation Problems => Topic started by: Slug Killer on April 23, 2008, 03:42:45 PM

Title: Arisaema hand pollination
Post by: Slug Killer on April 23, 2008, 03:42:45 PM
Hi

Can anyone give me some advice please on hand pollinating Arisaema? I've searched the www and found very little.

Any help appreciated.

Dave
Title: Re: Arisaema hand pollination
Post by: shelagh on April 23, 2008, 05:02:42 PM
Sounds fascinating Dave, I hope you have a slim wrist ??? ??? ???.
Title: Re: Arisaema hand pollination
Post by: Slug Killer on April 23, 2008, 05:16:45 PM
Well I heard some people using soft paint brushes for transferring pollen on Arisaema but I don't think it matters if you have slim wrists as I can't see this affecting the brush  :P
Title: Re: Arisaema hand pollination
Post by: johnw on April 24, 2008, 01:01:50 AM
Hi

Can anyone give me some advice please on hand pollinating Arisaema? I've searched the www and found very little.

Any help appreciated.

Dave

Dave - Here's a trick given to me by Steve Doonan of Grand Ridge Nursery.  It was about 20 years ago while visiting him and when Parks Seeds was selling A. sikkokianum at something like £4 for 6 seeds and it was relatively new.  We were walking round the garden and came across a magnificent clump of sikko leaves. I remarked on the price of seed and that a friend never had seed set on his.  Steve said little but when I was ready to leave he asked me if I wanted some sikko seed.  He took me behind the kiln shed and opened a 5 gallon (22 litre) bucket filled with uncleaned seed  - much to my shock.  He filled a shopping bag -  no charge despite my pleading to pay up  - he's that sort of fellow. Well my hands turned orange that night cleaning the seeds in a Vancouver hotel and stayed orange for quite some time, as did the towels I'm sure.

His trick was to mix the pollen with water in a jar, shake the mixture up and fill the female flower to the brim with the mixture.  I have never tested this but Steve said it was the only way he ever got copious seed from sikkokianum. He always tries to deduce what might happen in nature - clever boy.

Worth a try and good luck

johnw
Title: Re: Arisaema hand pollination
Post by: Slug Killer on April 24, 2008, 09:51:42 AM
Hi John - Thanks for the tip. I'll do a comparison test using this method on a couple of plants and see what the difference is. Always worth a try ;)
Title: Re: Arisaema hand pollination
Post by: Maggi Young on April 24, 2008, 10:17:07 AM
Quote
Dave - Here's a trick given to me by Steve Doonan of Grand Ridge Nursery.  It was about 20 years ago while visiting him and when Parks Seeds was selling A. sikkokianum at something like £4 for 6 seeds and it was relatively new.  We were walking round the garden and came across a magnificent clump of sikko leaves. I remarked on the price of seed and that a friend never had seed set on his.  Steve said little but when I was ready to leave he asked me if I wanted some sikko seed.  He took me behind the kiln shed and opened a 5 gallon (22 litre) bucket filled with uncleaned seed  - much to my shock.  He filled a shopping bag -  no charge despite my pleading to pay up  - he's that sort of fellow. Well my hands turned orange that night cleaning the seeds in a Vancouver hotel and stayed orange for quite some time, as did the towels I'm sure.

His trick was to mix the pollen with water in a jar, shake the mixture up and fill the female flower to the brim with the mixture.  I have never tested this but Steve said it was the only way he ever got copious seed from sikkokianum. He always tries to deduce what might happen in nature - clever boy.


What a great example of success achieved by careful consideration of the plants' natural habits...Steve is indeed a clever fellow ....we should all try to take this much notice of our plants  8)
Title: Re: Arisaema hand pollination
Post by: johnw on April 24, 2008, 09:38:26 PM
Hi John - Thanks for the tip. I'll do a comparison test using this method on a couple of plants and see what the difference is. Always worth a try ;)

Dave  - Do report back with your findings. I'd be very interested.

johnw
Title: Re: Arisaema hand pollination
Post by: Paul T on April 25, 2008, 03:14:25 AM
I've heard the same thing on Arisaema-L....... that you pollinate by pouring water through a male flower, then pouring it through a female flower (thereby transfering the pollen from one to the other).  Never tried it myself though, as never actually checked the sex of the flowers. 
Title: Re: Arisaema hand pollination
Post by: annew on April 25, 2008, 09:24:10 AM
Very interested in this - this is the kind of thing the forum excells at - the passing on of knowledge.
Title: Re: Arisaema hand pollination
Post by: johnw on April 25, 2008, 11:09:24 PM
I've heard the same thing on Arisaema-L....... that you pollinate by pouring water through a male flower, then pouring it through a female flower (thereby transfering the pollen from one to the other).  Never tried it myself though, as never actually checked the sex of the flowers. 

Paul - This rings a very distant bell.  Steve may have even picked the male flower and swirled it around in the jar if water to release the pollen...... Sounds much more efficient.

johnw
Title: Re: Arisaema hand pollination
Post by: Paul T on April 26, 2008, 01:22:24 AM
John,

But it does come down to how many flowers you have and whether you're willing to pick them!!  ;)  If not, pouring water into them then draining should give the same result, but leaves the flower in situ to enjoy in the garden.  ;D
Title: Re: Arisaema hand pollination
Post by: Lesley Cox on April 28, 2008, 05:29:29 AM
Though some of my species set seed, I've never seen anything in an Arisaema that looked remotely like pollen.
Title: Re: Arisaema hand pollination
Post by: Paul T on April 28, 2008, 09:42:47 AM
Usually it is on the upper flowers if a bisexual species, or the whole flowerhead if a unisexual species.  Some such as flavum set seed by themselves without a problem, but I very rarely get any other seed.  For those who aren't aware Arisaema change sex according to age and growing conditions.  Apparently a large mature tuber will produce female flowers, but if seed is then set (and therefore a lot of energy used on seed production) it will produce male flowers the next year as it is less expenditure of energy.  That is where growing things from seed regularly does help, as it gives a range of ages of seedlings and therefore increased chances of seedset.  As an example I think all my A. candidissimum are female each year, as each looks like it has produced it's little cob of seeds then they abort.  I don't know if there is any easy way to stimulate one of the other sex in the flower.  They're a fascinating genus, but I have never messed around trying to set seed on them, although I probably should at some point so that I can share seed.

Apologies to those who've had this message filtered out by their spam filters because I have used the word sex in here. :(
Title: Re: Arisaema hand pollination
Post by: johnw on April 28, 2008, 05:46:04 PM
John,

But it does come down to how many flowers you have and whether you're willing to pick them!!  ;)  If not, pouring water into them then draining should give the same result, but leaves the flower in situ to enjoy in the garden.  ;D

Excellent idea Paul. And as Leslie says if it is hard to determine when pollen is detectable you could repeat your procedure over a week or more to insure a good take.

The idea of bouquets of Arisaema flowers on the dinner table is intriguing especially when relatives are visiting! Skunk cabbages or Amorphophallus do the job rather more quickly.


johnw
Title: Re: Arisaema hand pollination
Post by: Slug Killer on April 28, 2008, 06:56:08 PM
The following links are for photo's on International Aroid Society. They show male spadix, female spadix and a plant with both male and female. Luckily I have one male and five female Arisaema engleri which are hopefully all pollinated now. Pollen falls off and collects at the bottom of the spadix on male plants and I guess that's where the water idea came from. I pollinated (hopefully) three using a small brush to transfer and two using the water method. time to sit back and wait.

http://www.aroid.org/genera/arisaema/herold/Images/arverr6big.jpg

http://www.aroid.org/genera/arisaema/herold/Images/AriengleriCFpurple5.JPG

http://www.aroid.org/genera/arisaema/herold/Images/Arineglectum3.jpg

Dave
Title: Re: Arisaema hand pollination
Post by: Maggi Young on April 28, 2008, 06:57:56 PM
Dave, I can only bring up the middle link, other two are denied access.
Title: Re: Arisaema hand pollination
Post by: Slug Killer on April 28, 2008, 07:04:25 PM
Strange but true. Don't know why this is as they are the correct links. If you hover the mouse over the link you want and right click, select 'copy shortcut' then open a new browsing window and enter it in to the address bar it works!

David
Title: Re: Arisaema hand pollination
Post by: Maggi Young on April 28, 2008, 07:09:54 PM
Strange but true. Don't know why this is as they are the correct links. If you hover the mouse over the link you want and right click, select 'copy shortcut' then open a new browsing window and enter it in to the address bar it works!

David
Yes, that works okay! Thanks, Dave.
Title: Re: Arisaema hand pollination
Post by: DavMac on April 29, 2008, 10:10:03 AM
Male inflorescences are easily identified without having to cut them open. There is a small pore at the base of the spathe which isn't present on a female inflorescence. If you try the water trick then you need to either seal the pore or else place a collection container under the pore.

I tried to find a photo to show the pore but the closest I came with my photos was one showing the base bulging out to form the pore from behind.

David
Title: Re: Arisaema hand pollination
Post by: Lesley Cox on April 29, 2008, 09:31:43 PM
How do you open a new browser window please, after selecting Copy Shortcut? OK, so I never claimed to be smart with computers.
Title: Re: Arisaema hand pollination
Post by: Diane Clement on April 29, 2008, 09:38:36 PM
How do you open a new browser window please, after selecting Copy Shortcut? OK, so I never claimed to be smart with computers.

Either click on Internet Explorer (or whatever browser you use) from your desktop,
Or go to Start menu and select it from there,
Or just open any old page from your Favourites and then click into the address bar and paste your new address into the address bar
Title: Re: Arisaema hand pollination
Post by: Lesley Cox on April 29, 2008, 10:00:14 PM
Oh, as easy as that eh? Thanks again Diane.
Title: Re: Arisaema hand pollination
Post by: Susan on April 29, 2008, 10:04:58 PM
Lesley, I use Mozilla Firefox, but I think it also works in Internet Explorer.  If you right click on the website a box comes up and you just click "Open in new window". In fact,  I have just checked IE and if you go to "File" at the top left - it has a box that says New Window - try that.  Give me a call if that doesn't work and I will try and talk you through it.

Cheers,

Susan
Title: Re: Arisaema hand pollination
Post by: Slug Killer on April 29, 2008, 10:15:17 PM
If you are using windows XP next to your favourite star button (top left) there is the large tab (page) you are actually on now and viewing this screen. You can select the little tab next to it and open a new window and then another if you wish. This way you can move between various pages very quickly without having to close or open new internet explorer pages. If this does not make sense I will e-mail you a picture if you want.

Dave
Title: Re: Arisaema hand pollination
Post by: Slug Killer on October 14, 2008, 05:02:56 PM
The pollination update. I tried using just a brush and also swirling the male pollen in water before pouring over the female.

Both worked well but using a little brush is a lot easier when you have just one or two. The water method would be ideal if you had a lot of plants to do as you could collect plenty of pollen and then just go around pouring.

Dave
Title: Re: Arisaema hand pollination
Post by: mickeymuc on October 17, 2008, 12:54:27 PM
Hi Dave,

In Dan Hinkley's book ("The explorer's garden") he writes about pollination problems in Arisaema - in species with male and female inflorescences he writes they picked the male ones, put them into a blender with some water and a drop of detergent and mixed all together. The resulting liquid was dropped into the female inflorescences.
I have never tried this myself, I've had seed set without help on ciliatum, consanguineum, elephas, triphyllum and tortuosum.
Still self-pollination is a possible explanation (rain is no different to water poured into the inflorescence) if inflorescences are bisexual, otherwise maybe some hybridisation occurred?
I think the first option is true, but we'll see.

Michael
Title: Re: Arisaema hand pollination
Post by: Gene Mirro on April 26, 2013, 06:12:41 PM
I just tried the method of filling the flower with water and then sucking it back out.  It didn't work well on sikokianum.  The water leaked out the bottom of the flower very quickly.  I then tried the artist's paint brush method.  We'll see how that worked in a few months.
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