Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => Alpines => Topic started by: Maggi Young on April 08, 2008, 01:43:03 PM
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This topic has been created by comments made, in another thread, about Epigaea repens, by John W. in Nova Scotia.....
"Spring has been desperately late here and the snowdrops in the south, they say, are a month late. I spent the afternoon scouring some big drifts of Galanthus nivalis in the Digby area of Nova Scotia. Most were growing in back gardens and cascaded down the wet slopes. The soil looked very rich and very damp.
A memorable highlight of the day was the fragrance of our native Epigaea repens (our provincial flower) wafting in the Spring air. I examined the nearby clumps but only found a few opened flowers hidden in the moss. It will be quite something when the many buds open."
johnw
To which I replied:
Great to see such healthy snowies, John.... but.... can I ask you ( kindly, please?) for a photo of the Epigaea repens? That is just SUCH a wonderful plant.... it and E. gaulterioides are two of my MOST favourite plants EVER!! 8)
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For me too, P L E A S E ! :) :) :)
Gerd
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Great to se such healthy snowies, John.... but.... can i ask you ( kindly, please?) for a photo of the Epigaea repens? That is just SUCH a wonderful plant.... it and E. gaulterioides are two of my mMOST favourite plants EVER!! 8)
Maggi - Unfortunately I didn't photograph the Epigaea but I did pick a bunch and have them inside. I will photograph them when they open and some locals in the wild when they flower. Usually ladies come by the door selling bouquets but I haven't seen them around yet.
Epigaea is very abundant here and difficult to establish in the garden. They grow and flower best in full sun, amazing what rotten mineral soil they grow in.
johnw
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Usually ladies come by the door selling bouquets but I haven't seen them around yet.
Bouquets? Of epigaeas??? Swoon!
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Usually ladies come by the door selling bouquets but I haven't seen them around yet.
Bouquets? Of epigaeas??? Swoon!
These will have to do for the moment. Cut from one clump 1 meter across growing wild on my land in the south yesterday. This is clump is growing in heavy soil overlaid with moss and acidic wood and leaf littler. Note how tight in bud they are. Why the name Mayflower as they are usually out here in late March or early April? Sometimes a few in a winter thaw in January or February. Along the highways they tend to grow in opoor mineral soil and stay in small tight clumps.
johnw
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...so these tight buds will open now they are cut and in water, John? 8)
How fantastic... I can't believe it.... just as well you didn't tell us all this on the 1st April ::) ;)
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...so these tight buds will open now they are cut and in water, John? 8)
How fantastic... I can't believe it.... just as well you didn't tell us all this on the 1st April ::) ;)
Maggi
Of course they'll open! They are pretty tight for this late date. Give them 36 hours or so and I'll re-photograph them.
johnw
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I may be able to supply a small picture later today. For some reason my E. repens is flowering now, even better than it did in the spring and yes, mine too is deliciously scented. I'm interested to hear John, that it flowers best in full sun. Mine gets quite a lot of sun but not full, which would be pretty devastating here in summer I think. E. asiatica also flowers well in sun and sometimes gets very dry but has never lost a leaf because of that so I think they're reasonably tough. Alas I've not ever had E. gaultherioides. Do you get seed on your Maggi? I had good seed on asiatica in the summer and this is now sown. It was raised from SRGC seed about 5 years ago. E. repens was bought as a small plant from Ann Cartman.
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I'm interested to hear John, that it flowers best in full sun. Mine gets quite a lot of sun but not full, which would be pretty devastating here in summer I think.
Leslie - We're a tad south of latitude 45 here in Halifax. We do get a fair bit of overcast and fog in the spring and early and latter part of the summer so the sun is tempered a bit. It can be sunny and dry in late July and August, sometimes even into September. Why not try to root a piece now and try it in full sun next year? How hot does it get there near Dunedin? Summer rain?
I see at this site http://nymf.bbg.org/profile_species_tech.asp?id=327 the type of var. glabrifolia is from Middleton, NS in the Annapolis Valley. The soil there is very sandy and it can get hot and parched in the summer.
I think E. gautherioides would be hopeless here. A friend has lost it in eastern Newfoundland.
Maggi - Does E. gaultherioides grow well outdoors with you? I saw it at the Stones and at Glendoick but they were in frames.
johnw
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I think frames are better for both E. gaultherioides and asiatica here. Don't have an E. repens :(
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I found E. repens jolly difficult to photograph as all the flowers are on the extremities and only a few at a time visible in the camera screen, so the first pic is largely greenery but I picked 3 little sprigs and took them separately. They're now in a little vase in the kitchen, nicely scented when I walk past. I see there is a good rooted patch on the plant (which is about 30 cms across) so I might detach that and try it in a sunnier spot. Seems almost wicked somehow as I would have expected it to do best in deep shade.
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We get to high 20s (C) most summers John and it can be very dry as well but this summer just past has been into mid 30s on many days, and not a drop of water for weeks on end. I've done some watering of this particular raised bed as it has plants which demand a cooler, moister soil but not nearly so much watering as I would have liked, as we rely on rain only for our water supply, so most things have been quite dry at some times. On the whole, they've stood up very well. Some look a bit shabby but nothing has died.
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We get to high 20s (C) most summers John and it can be very dry as well but this summer just past has been into mid 30s on many days, and not a drop of water for weeks on end. I've done some watering of this particular raised bed as it has plants which demand a cooler, moister soil but not nearly so much watering as I would have liked, as we rely on rain only for our water supply, so most things have been quite dry at some times. On the whole, they've stood up very well. Some look a bit shabby but nothing has died.
Leslie - I think your Epigaea will be fine in the sun. I keep forgetting it can take heat as it is native in New England where summers are sweltering.
We can get to the upper twenties celsius in the summer as well - a few days only - but it cools off at night.
A lovely Spring day here. The temperature jumped from 0c at 7 am to 18c this afternoon. I might get some E. shots tomorrow.
johnw
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Here is an Epigaea blooming two weeks ago at a park near my house in eastern Tennessee. I am still searching for some that smell pleasant. I find the scent to have a bit of mildew hidden in the spiciness. It may be the soil they grow in though that has the mildew scent.
Aaron Floden
Knoxville, TN
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Lesley, Aaron,
Thank you both for the pretty Epigaea pics - one of the desirable plants, which seem to resent all attemps to grow it under my conditions.
Gerd
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We've had and lost both Epigaea repens and gaultherioides, but found E. repens easier to grow. Is the seed viable for very long because you rarely see it offered.
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I think frames are better for both E. gaultherioides and asiatica here. Don't have an E. repens :(
Maggi
I was given a plant of E. gaultheroides. Is your recommendation on frames restricted to the frozen north, or anywhere in the UK. My plant, still in a pot was outside in last weekend's snow.
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We've had and lost both Epigaea repens and gaultherioides, but found E. repens easier to grow. Is the seed viable for very long because you rarely see it offered.
Shelagh - It's been a long time since we collected Epigaea seed - maybe for the Archibalds. I think it was in late July or early August latest. Seeds are hard to find as the ants go off with them. I have never sowed them and so can't tell you about their viability. We rarely see a seedling in the wild though I can't say I go actively looking for them. I have seen a few on a rotten stumps once and one E. repens came up in my coldframe next to E. asiatica last summer.
johnw
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Arthur, I would play it safe with frame culture... it is such a stunning plant, it would be a shame to risk it.
If I remember correctly, they keep E. asiatica in a frame at RBGE and it is lovely.
Sadly, we thought we would be clever and try life outdoors for these gems and this is all we are left with.....
albeit a very beautiful souvenir.....
a watercolour of our Epigaea gaultherioides when it was still safely in a pot and going to shows....
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a watercolour of our Epigaea gaultherioides when it was still safely in a pot and going to shows....
WOW, wonderful work!!! :o. Who's the artist???
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It is a super painting, isn't it, Jose? It is by the late Lawrence Greenwood, a wonderful man who regularly showed his watercolour paintings at AGS and SRGC Shows. He was a delightful man as well as an accomplished artist and he is much missed, though we still have the company of his widow, Lillian at Club events from time to time.
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VERY nice...
You're lucky--and I would suppose honored--to have one of his originals...
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Carlo, we are just delighted to have several of Lawrence's works which were painted from our own plants, we also have quite a number of others that we collected over the years... we bought whenever we could and some are gifts from Lawrence and Lillian.... we are constantly excited by the beauty and delicacy of his work, these paintings are a daily joy!
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Wonderful.
Can I suggest you start a new topic and show us some of the others????
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I might do just that, Carlo. It would be nice to see other botanical artists' work too, don't you think?
I'll work on that ,soon :)
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Photo #1
I stopped three times along very busy highways and shot some Epigaea repens. None were in flower yet but had pink flower tips. I will check again in a few days.
This is one growing along side the freeway in nasty rocky soil hence the tight habit.
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Photos 2 & 3
Growing at the very edge of woodland roadside. Soil is slightly humusy with oak, fir and spruce overhanging.
Had to flee to the car as a downpour erupted so no re-takes.
johnw
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Photo #4
The best one in full sun, rocky soil with some humus.
Lots of buds hidden. I will return to shoot this one in flower.
johnw
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John, truly, I didn't mean for you to risk life and limb from auto accident or downpour to get photos!! :-[ :-X
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John, truly, I didn't mean for you to risk life and limb from auto accident or downpour to get photos!! :-[ :-X
A good plant is always worth the risk!
johnw
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Maggi - Here are a few shots from today. It is rather puzzling that these twigs cut last Monday are slow so to come into bloom so late in the season given indoor temperatures. As mentioned Epigaea will often come out during a winter's brief thaw of a couple of weeks when temps are very much lower. The flowers are quite a bit pinker than they appear in these photos.
johnw
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John the foliage on your wild collected is far better than the pot grown variety which always seem to let it down on the showbench.
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I'd like to see a pink form. Mine is pure white. But the foliage is good.
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Here is a pink and the typical white form of Epigaea repens taken on Thursday when I was out in the field, eastern Tennessee.
Aaron Floden
Knoxville, TN
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My word, that's lovely. Thanks Aaron.
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The Epigaea, as you can see, is painfully slow this Spring. It may well be the "mayflower" this year.
It was 16c today and sunny, yet the buds are just starting to turn upwards.
I will shoot some in the south in the next few days.
johnw
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Maggi - At long last some Epigaea shots from the south of Nova Scotia. A beautiful day down there at 21c and sunny with mist just as I was leaving.
Post 1
A particularly big patch over 7ft across with only a few flowers open today.
johnw
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And three close-ups.
The fragrance was very intense taking these shots. Hard to say what they remind me of - maybe sweeter than lilacs but very similar.
More when local clumps are in full bloom.
johnw
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bliss! Aren't they lovely?
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Lovely, John. 7ft across eh? I'll have to arrange a bigger space. ;D
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Lovely, John. 7ft across eh? I'll have to arrange a bigger space. ;D
Leslie - Plan for a bit less, that's the biggest single clump I've ever seen.
I mentioned I had rarely seen wild seedlings. Well it's amazing what you find when you open your eyes. I saw many seedlings yesterday in the south, all growing in the most unusual places - barren soil, soil covered in British Soldiers and Pixie Cups, on rotted tree stumps, screes and moss-covered soil - I guess all pretty sterile environments.
I'll watch for seed too.
That large clump also had one shot that was a very dark reddish pink. I'll have to ask the ladies who sell posies door-to-door if they have seen dark coloured or large-flowered forms and WHERE!
johnw