Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: Hans J on April 04, 2008, 09:03:25 AM

Title: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: Hans J on April 04, 2008, 09:03:25 AM
Kalimera :)

Before two years I have visit the island of Ikaria to study G. ikariae -now in this year it was able for me to make a other trip to the Kyklades Islands of Andros and Naxos .
A long time wish was for me now possibly to compere this species on there habitats and made my own minds .....

Here are now some pics :
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: Hans J on April 04, 2008, 09:06:21 AM
This plants grows often near little rivers , in wet and shady conditions - often under plantanus ,mostly on schist
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: Hans J on April 04, 2008, 09:08:24 AM
They grow together with Cyclamen ,Fern ,Ranunculus,Viola,Scilla, Corydalis
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: Hans J on April 04, 2008, 09:11:16 AM
I found it from 600 - 850 altitude -the local people told me that in this areas is often fog ( also in summer )
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: Hans J on April 04, 2008, 09:14:21 AM
Habitat pics from 1 -4 are from Andros , 5 is from Naxos

On Andros is mostly schist - on Naxos more or less limestone ( marble )

the biggest leaves I have seen has a broad of 3 cm and a length of 40 cm

I'm now interestet to hear what other snowdrop fans thinks now

Enjoy
Hans ;)
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: Paul T on April 04, 2008, 11:11:28 AM
Wow Hans.  How cool to see them in the wild.  Fascinating to see what they're growing with.  I theoretically have snogerupii (just love the name!  ;D) and it is definitely distinct in appearance to what I have as ikariae.

Really good to see habitat pics like these.  Not sure what I was expecting to see for Galanthus habitats but these weren't it.  ::)  Thanks for the pictures.  :D
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: Anthony Darby on April 04, 2008, 12:06:00 PM
How nice to be able to visit these places and see them in the wild. Thanks for posting them Hans. 8) Is it due to their dark habitat that they have such huge leaves?
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: Hans J on April 04, 2008, 12:48:25 PM
Wow Hans.  How cool to see them in the wild.  Fascinating to see what they're growing with.  I theoretically have snogerupii (just love the name!  ;D) and it is definitely distinct in appearance to what I have as ikariae.

Really good to see habitat pics like these.  Not sure what I was expecting to see for Galanthus habitats but these weren't it.  ::)  Thanks for the pictures.  :D

Hi Paul ,

I know that you would like this pics !!!
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: Hans J on April 04, 2008, 12:51:55 PM
How nice to be able to visit these places and see them in the wild. Thanks for posting them Hans. 8) Is it due to their dark habitat that they have such huge leaves?

Anthony,

I believe the big leave has nothing to do with the ligth - I found it also in other populations .
My idea is that this leaves comes if the plants have fat soil ....if the ground was drier and more stony the plants was smaller
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: Paul T on April 04, 2008, 01:06:23 PM
So out of interest, what are your observations as to the differences between these ssp snogerupii and the straight species?  I've heard tell that some don't want the differentiation to continue, and I think I recall that some people regard woronowii and ikariae as the same thing?  What we have in this country under these two names could NEVER be mistaken, they're totally different in flower size and characteristics etc, just the "same green leaves".  Have you also seen the wild species ikariae?
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: Hans J on April 04, 2008, 01:31:08 PM
Paul ,

As I have written I have visit before two years the island of Ikaria -I have found there several populations
( from 300 m - 700 m ) - for me look the plants from Ikaria really different in color of the leaves - they are always dark .
The habitats are similar -mostly near little rivers ,mostly on schist .
I agree with G.Kamari that the plants from Andros and Naxos are a different subspecies !
After my observations I saw always uniform populations -the plants from Andros and Naxos are always "applegreen" in color of the leaves - I dont know if the DNA is big different -but I suppose more or less not....

To woronowii : I really dont understand why people mix it always with ikariae ....it is really a big difference !
The location is really different ( I have seen G. woronowii in mts. near the black sea )
But there is a really simply method to see the difference between the species of G.ikariae and woronowii :
take a leaf and cut it - on the ikariae leaves you will see cells ( big enough to see it with the eye ) -woronowii has this sign not !
.....it is still the same with G. caucasicus  (the old name for elwesii)  -I dont understand why so many people still use this name for elwesii....
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: Anthony Darby on April 04, 2008, 02:30:47 PM
I have seen snogerupii advertised for sale (as a true species), but didn't buy any. Wish I had now! :( Just done some swaps, so now have 'Anne of Gieirstein', 'Fenstead End', 'Dreycott Greentip' and 'Spindlestone Surprise'.
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: Alberto on April 04, 2008, 04:10:56 PM
Dear Hans, next time I have to join you in these kind of trip! Really beautiful places to visit and take photos!  :)

Ciao
Alberto

Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: Hans J on April 04, 2008, 04:15:24 PM
Dear Hans, next time I have to join you in these kind of trip! Really beautiful places to visit and take photos!  :)

Ciao
Alberto



Alberto

 8) endaxi 8)
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: Hans J on April 04, 2008, 04:46:51 PM
Knows may be anyone the names of the other plants ( Viola, Primula,Corydalis ) ?
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: David Nicholson on April 04, 2008, 07:10:57 PM
Knows may be anyone the names of the other plants ( Viola, Primula,Corydalis ) ?

Hans, the Primula is vulgaris.

I thought you might be interested in this Web Site   http://www.greekmountainflora.info/index.htm
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: Hans J on April 04, 2008, 07:16:23 PM
David ,

thanks you a lot for the name ( my hope was that you know this name )
.....but I'm wondering - this plants are really rare on Andros -only in such Galanthus conditions
on the other island ( Naxos ) I have seen not only plants of them .
I suppose they like not calcy soil - I'm rigth ?

Thank you also for the link - I know it but I had not looked for the ID....
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: David Nicholson on April 04, 2008, 07:31:57 PM
 Many Primulas like a little lime Hans.
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: Diane Whitehead on April 04, 2008, 07:41:13 PM
In your first set of photos, there is one of a big clump of leaves,  Hab.1d.jpg
All the flowers had been picked off.  Why?
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: Hans J on April 04, 2008, 07:52:01 PM
Sorry Diane -but I dont know ...maybe any animals ?
Also in other populations I sow sometimes only few fruits ....but the plants looks really healthy !
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: ashley on April 05, 2008, 11:44:17 AM
This plant seems rather similar to a form I grow.  Leaves are apple green (despite blueish cast of first 2 pics) and up to 3 cm wide, but flowers are relatively small.  It seeds around quite freely. 
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: Hans J on April 05, 2008, 12:11:36 PM
This plant seems rather similar to a form I grow.  Leaves are apple green (despite blueish cast of first 2 pics) and up to 3 cm wide, but flowers are relatively small.  It seeds around quite freely. 


Ashley :

Sorry to say ....but this first two pics show G. woronowii -not real G. ikariae - please look for the markings !
Please look - here is a pic from my travel in year 2006 - made on the island of Ikaria
Also here is a other pic from my garden from my G.ikariae ( bought before 9 years )
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: ashley on April 05, 2008, 06:43:17 PM
Thanks very much for the correct ID Hans. 
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: Renate Brinkers on April 05, 2008, 10:10:43 PM
Hi Hans,

it is really great to see this habitat pictures. I am really impressed!
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: Hans J on April 06, 2008, 07:53:27 AM
Thanks Renate  ;D

My idea to show this pics was :

one pic says more than 1000 words - after seeing in which condition our plants grow is it much better to give them the rigth conditions in our garden !
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on April 06, 2008, 08:26:31 AM
How much would 1000 pictures say ;). Your pics are a help for me too!
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: Hans J on April 06, 2008, 09:45:53 AM
Hagen :

Come with me and make the other 975 pics  ::)
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: Paul T on April 06, 2008, 12:50:37 PM
Thanks for the info Hans.
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: Ralf Jahn on December 06, 2009, 11:47:13 PM
Hi Hans,

thank you very much for your most impressive pictures!

Quote
Knows may be anyone the names of the other plants ( Viola, Primula,Corydalis ) ?

1f: Cyclamen hederifolium, Veronica cymbalaria
1h: Viola alba subsp. dehnhardtii
1i: Scilla andria
2d: Corydalis thasia
5b: Platanus orientalis, Geranium lucidum

References:
Böhling, N. 1995: Zeigerwerte der Phanerogamen-Flora von Naxos (Griechenland). Ein Beitrag zur ökologischen Kennzeichnung der mediterranen Pflanzenwelt. - Stuttgarter Beitr. Naturk., A 533: 1-75.
Snogerup, S., Snogerup, B., Stamatiadou, E., Bothmer, R. von & Gustafsson, M. (2007): Flora and vegetation of Andros, Kikladhes, Greece. - Ann. Mus. Goulandris 11: 85-270. Download: http://www.gnhm.gr/MuseumDefault_5.aspx?selItem=96&fCode=o1 (http://www.gnhm.gr/MuseumDefault_5.aspx?selItem=96&fCode=o1)
Strid, A. & Kit Tan (eds.) 2003: Flora Hellenica, vol. 2. Nymphaeaceae to Platanaceae. - Ruggell: A.R.G. Gantner Verlag, xvi + 511 pp.

Best wishes
Ralf
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: Maggi Young on December 06, 2009, 11:50:21 PM
Grüßtig, Ralf, herzliches Willkommen !

Good to have you join us in the forum, thank you for this information.  :)
Title: Re: Galanthus ikariae ssp. snogerupii in habitat
Post by: Hans J on December 07, 2009, 07:58:05 AM
Hallo Ralf ,

ich danke Dir für Deine umfassende Auskunft !

Kind regards
Hans
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