Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => NARCISSUS => Topic started by: YT on December 26, 2017, 03:01:17 PM
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Narcissus ‘Craigton Chorister’
Happy holidays and hope all SRGC members have a wonderful 2018!
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Very shy this year, Narcissus romieuxii 'Craigton Clumper' from Ian
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Tatsuo
What a beautiful pot of 'Craigton Chorister' it grows so well for you , ours is also coming into flower but in our low light they have much longer stems.
[attachimg=1]
Narcissus 'Craigton Chorister'
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Very shy this year, Narcissus romieuxii 'Craigton Clumper' from Ian
It may just be in the picture Yann, but the colour looks paler then 'Craigton Clumper' it is always tinged very pale yellow here - ours are still in bud.
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You're right, i've to check the source of the bulbs, it has a very pale yellow at the base but after checking your bulbs logs i must admit isn't Clumper. My pots are numbered in case i lost the labe so i've compared to my 2016 photos and the petals were pale yellow.
I'll investigate this week-end, may be i inverted labels and bulbs during repotting.
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Tatsuo
What a beautiful pot of 'Craigton Chorister' it grows so well for you , ours is also coming into flower but in our low light they have much longer stems.
Thank you for sharing such a beautiful hoop with us, Ian :)
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Narcissus romieuxii subsp. albidus var. zaianicus, MS168 x self
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A lovely pure-looking flower Tatsuo.
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Narcissus bulbocodium subsp. praecox var. paucinervis.
What was supposed to be Craigton Clumper is a complete mystery, i've checked my pots crossing with my database details....so we may say romieuxii ;D
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N. romieuxii subsp. albidus var. zaianicus
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A nice yellow form of var. zaianicus, Arnold :)
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Narcissus cantabricus subsp. monophyllus x N. cantabricus var. petunioides
Several years ago I sent some pollen of var. petunioides to my friend. Then, this seedling came back from the friend ;D
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Narcissus x 'Don Stead', i love it :P
an unknown hybrid tazetta x ?
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Tatsuo:
I was a bit reluctant to post the image. I've seen the plant with white and yellow forms and wasn't 100% sure it as the correct ID.
Any insight into this disparity?
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....an unknown hybrid tazetta x ?
Could it be a N. viridiflorus hybrid?
cheers
fermi
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I was a bit reluctant to post the image. I've seen the plant with white and yellow forms and wasn't 100% sure it as the correct ID.
Any insight into this disparity?
Hello Arnold.
Here are pictures of Narcissus romieuxii subsp. albidus var. zaianicus, MS168 and a bunch of its self pollinated seedlings. There are some yellowish flowers.
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In his recent book Mike Salmon raises this plant to specific status as Narcissus zaianicus where he describes it as possibly the result of a stable hybrid between Narcissus romieuxii var riffanus and N. cantabricus ssp monophyllus - it can have pale primrose to milk white flowers he goes on to state that he found some pure populations and other mixed swarms.
If you are interested in these plants his book is well worth having as he shows the masses of hybrids that occur in the wild.
I should add that we have always had the same mix in colour among the bulbs and seedlings we have grown of this taxa.
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Ah, thank you both.
Quite a geographical span in the answer.
Wonders of the SRGC at it's best.
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I begin to ask myself who are the more splitter, daffodil or orchid lovers ?
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Narcissus ‘春の光 (Haru-no-Hikari)’
One of the earliest yellow hoops at my place. It has a resemblance to N. bulbocodium on its appearance.
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In his recent book Mike Salmon raises this plant to specific status as Narcissus zaianicus where he describes it as possibly the result of a stable hybrid between Narcissus romieuxii var riffanus and N. cantabricus ssp monophyllus - it can have pale primrose to milk white flowers he goes on to state that he found some pure populations and other mixed swarms.
If you are interested in these plants his book is well worth having as he shows the masses of hybrids that occur in the wild.
I should add that we have always had the same mix in colour among the bulbs and seedlings we have grown of this taxa.
Would you tell me the book title and where can I obtain it, please?
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All details here, YT , including some photos -
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=248.msg382333#msg382333 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=248.msg382333#msg382333)
From Jon Evans : "This is a large format (about A4), hefty volume, packed with useful information very attractively presented. A double page spread is allocated for each subspecies with additional pages as needed especially to show differences between subspecies. The double page includes a detailed botanical description of the species together with a map of where they have been found . He includes his collection numbers which can be matched against material available in cultivation, particularly from Kurt Vickery who took over most of the business. Most striking of all are the beautiful botanical illustrations all done by Mike himself.
Not everyone will agree with Mike’s conclusions, but regardless of that the information in this volume is invaluable.
If anybody is interested they can obtain a copy direct from the printer : Price £44.99 (there may be additional charges for overseas postage)."
Graeme Best
The Somerton Printery Ltd
Canvin Court
Somerton Business Park
Somerton
TA11 6SB
Tel 01458 272368
e-mail info@somertonprintery.com
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Thank you very much for your quick response with the perfect information as usual, Maggi :-*
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You can also get it from the Alpine Garden Society, if the publishers will not send to Japan:
http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/sales/books/bulbous/A+Survey+of+the+Genus+Narcissus/502/ (http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/sales/books/bulbous/A+Survey+of+the+Genus+Narcissus/502/)
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Thank you, Anne ;)
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Narcissus cantabricus (may be subsp cantabrica?). In april 2013 I collected seeds near Ardales lakes among Iris planifolia.
The seeds were fallen on the soil surface as most of the capsules were opened, i also grabbed Cyclamen in the batch.
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Just a wild beauty 8)
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Narcissus romieuxii ‘Craigton Clumper’ :) :) :)
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Narcissus romieuxii ‘Craigton Clumper’ :) :) :)
Oh my word - that looks fantastic! Shows why it was worth a name!!
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Oh my word - that looks fantastic! Shows why it was worth a name!!
I'm a lucky person to share this outstanding hoop from your bulb house with the SRGC members! Thank you, Maggi :) :) :)
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It is a cracker - and just about the earliest to flower here, not to mention almost indecently prolific!
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I've already pollinated ‘Craigton Clumper’ (right) pollen to ‘Yellow Parasol’ (left, a hoop hybrid with short peduncle and up ward facing flower). Hoping to donate the seeds to the next SRGC seedex ;)
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A man after my own heart!
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Although I think I might have overdone it - so many lovely hoops flowering for the first time after going a bit mad with pollen in 2014! (Aiming for widely flared coronas)
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Have pollen, will pollinate - seems like a good motto to me!
Lovely babies, Anne!
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Have pollen, will pollinate - seems like a good motto to me!
Lovely babies, Anne!
Can lead to hundreds of seedlings, especially of the hoop petticoats which are so generous with seeds, and germinate freely. There are worse problems to have.
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Narcissus munozii-garmandiae
Surprisingly hardy outside - for several years!
Gerd
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Narcissus munozii-garmandiae
Surprisingly hardy outside - for several years!
Gerd
Tough little things - but I must admit I feel a little sorry for them out in the cold!
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Tough little things - but I must admit I feel a little sorry for them out in the cold!
Thank you Maggi! There is no need to be concerned - this group has withstood much more snow and cold in the past.
Gerd
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Mat as we are in the barmy south of England and most probably a bit ahead of you, here is a picture of the Narcissus I sent to you last year. I got it as N. asturensis Paul is not convinced. This is the spare 6.5cm pot where the bulbs are not planted that deeply so is earlier than the main pot, in which Paul counted about 26 flower buds on it the other day. That should look good. Hope yours do ok.
Colin
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I do have a N. asturiensis in flower at the moment, but I'm not sure if it's yours or another one. I will have to check. Now that the snow and ice has thawed here I'll take a look and see if we can discover what it is. Look forward to seeing your 26 flowered potful when they open.
Interestingly, whenever I receive bulbs from the deep south they tend to flower very early for me in the first year - going from the hot summers in southern England to a cool Scottish island triggers them into early growth. A slow decline from a cool Hebridean summer to a mild winter means they can take quite a while to emerge in subsequent years.
Matt
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Narcissus romieuxii ‘Mrs. McGee’
Love this upward facing and smooth edged corona :) :) :)
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it is a favourite of mine too, but it looks better with you!
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Narcissus cantabricus (at least, identified as this)
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it is a favourite of mine too, but it looks better with you!
Thank you, Anne ;)
I came across another N. romieuxii with a smooth edged corona in my seedlings today :)
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Very smart!
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Narcissus barrae (N. cantabricus x N. bulbocodium subsp. bulbocodium)
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N. barrae
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Fantastic scenes, Rafa - we can only hope that such wonderful sites remain safe for many years.
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Don't worry Maggi, it is a private land, completely protected with compatible agricultural activities. The owners know the unique value of this species that only grows there. It is unique in the Planet, there is just one locality know of it.
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So nice !
Will you be able to have seeds of it ? ::)
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Don't worry Maggi, it is a private land, completely protected with compatible agricultural activities. The owners know the unique value of this species that only grows there. It is unique in the Planet, there is just one locality know of it.
This is some of the best news I have had in a long time that this fabulous place and its plants are safe!
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What a wonderful sight/site!
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nice garden ;D :o
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Wow, Rafa, :o
How wonderful to see the natural hybrid which Rod Barwick re-created with some of his earliest hybrid hoops, such as Spoirot
http://daffseek.org/detail-page/?cultivar=Spoirot&auto=1 (http://daffseek.org/detail-page/?cultivar=Spoirot&auto=1)
These are now "naturalising" themselves in our rock garden where they cross and seed and delight us with new variations each year.
Thanks so much for sharing these pics and congratulations to the owners of the land for recognising the importance of these wildings
cheers
fermi
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I think it is the same hybrid. This plant has been described many times (x neocarpetanus, x neocarpetanus var. romanensis, N. albicans...) the prioritary name is Narcissus x barrae Fern. Casas (1986). In this unique case, this is no longer an hybrid, it is complete independent, blooming before its original parents due its good position in the mountain. In adition it has replaced the ecological role of N. bulbocodium in this part, so there are very few.
This locality is unique because it is based in N. cantabricus, the other locality known of N. barrae in San Roman de los Montes, Toledo and is based in N. bulbocodium and the result is quite different and not so profuse, there are hundreds of fertile plants but not hectares like in Extremadura. Also in San Roman there are little, use to grow in single plants and they have a range of different scents, while in Extremadura, the scent is stable (bad) like N. cantabricus
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So lovely to see these growing so well in their native home Raffa.
This is a cross that spontaneously arises in collections where the parents are open pollinated like here in one of our sand beds.
[attachimg=1]
Nice but not as nice as seeing the pictures of Narcissus barrae in its habitat.
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Narcissus romieuxii
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Narcissus cantabricus subsp. monophyllus (SBL545 x SF389) :) :) :)
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Narcissus cantabricus subsp. monophyllus (SBL545 x SF389) :) :) :)
Your plants always look so wonderful growing and being photographed in your strong light, not to mention your skills as a grower YT.
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I'm thinking of moving to Japan.....and taking my daffs with me :D
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More hoops arriving, some pots of selected seedlings that I chipped.
These are from my favourite cross of Narcissus cantabricus petunioides x romieuxii albidus SF110. Not surprising I've shortened it to MOON and a code letter!
Moon M
[attachimg=1]
Moon N
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
Moon P
[attachimg=4]
And good old Trumpet Voluntary in full flow too - the first trumpet in the greenhouse.
[attachimg=5]
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This little pot of seedlings flowering for the first time is getting a lot of pink labels to say I like them.
[attachimg=1]
Narcissus (romieuxii?) rifanus reaches for the sky.
[attachimg=2]
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Maggi, am I doing it wrong? I thought the thumbnails would expand without opening in a new window.....
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Maggi, am I doing it wrong? I thought the thumbnails would expand without opening in a new window.....
I'll amend your posts to do that , Anne - after that I'll post what the post looks like so you know how it's done.
This little pot of seedlings flowering for the first time is getting a lot of pink labels to say I like them.
attachimg=1
Narcissus (romieuxii?) rifanus reaches for the sky.
attachimg=2
the attachimg =x part are enclosed in square brackets - you need to choose "Inline full size image" from the drop down options.
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'Trumpet Voluntary' is sublime!!
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indeed!!
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Your plants always look so wonderful growing and being photographed in your strong light, not to mention your skills as a grower YT.
Thank you, Ian. You encourages me a lot. But that's not true. I only post the pictures of plants growing well ;D
I'm thinking of moving to Japan.....and taking my daffs with me :D
...and hepaticas are waiting for you, Anne ;)
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This little pot of seedlings flowering for the first time is getting a lot of pink labels to say I like them.
(Attachment Link)
I like the white one with flat corona in the middle.
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Mat pictures of my main pot of N asturensis with all 26 buds open.
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Mat pictures of my main pot of N asturensis with all 26 buds open.
Saying "Spring is sprung" -at least, we hope so!
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Mat pictures of my main pot of N asturensis with all 26 buds open.
Wow! :o That's quite some sight!
Those I have in flower are indeed the same bulbs from you, so I will have to sit down and take a good close look at them.
Thanks for showing this pic. Lovely.
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Mat pictures of my main pot of N asturensis with all 26 buds open.
That's a cracking potful!
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I'll amend your posts to do that , Anne - after that I'll post what the post looks like so you know how it's done.
the attachimg =x part are enclosed in square brackets - you need to choose "Inline full size image" from the drop down options.
Hi Maggi, I was trying to put in an inline expandable thumbnail, but thought it would expand in the same window. The full size images look OK though, if you don't think they take up too much room on the page.
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Hi Maggi, I was trying to put in an inline expandable thumbnail, but thought it would expand in the same window. The full size images look OK though, if you don't think they take up too much room on the page.
Anne make the images 750 pixels wide and they will expand in the window, if they are over 800 they open in a new window.
edit by maggi - Ian is mistaken - even smaller sized "inline expandable thumbnails" will open in a new window.
The SRGC resizer works best when used for "Inline full-size images" when the image is both resized and presented fully in the text of the post to be enjoyed.
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Thanks Maggi - I haven't tried the resizer yet.
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Two different things here.... There is the srgc resizing gadget which you can download and use..... And also the new set thing which automatlcally resizes pix as you load the, into a post.....
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Anne : if you just upload a photo into a position in the text the forum's own system will resize it automatically.
This is an example pic from Jens Birck....
[attachimg=1]
This photo was 1280 x 960 and 242kb in size - automatically resized when loading to open in the same page. Easier than resizing photos to load in the other ways, which need to be under 200kb and we recommend around 750 pixels at widest point.
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Angelo Porcelli posted this super comparison of tazetta types on Facebook :
A photo comparison of some wild Narcissus of the tazetta group, I have collected in various part of Italy or I was given.
1. papyraceus with pointed tepals, a tall and vigorous form very common in my region Apulia.Seed fertile.
2. tazetta italicus, the sterile hybrid between tazetta and payraceus, found in many parts of Italy
3. tazetta orientalis, the sterile triploid form usually cultivated, with pleasant citrus scent.
4.tazetta ssp.bertolonii, found wild in Tuscany, Sardinia and minor islands nearby. Seed fertile. Occasionally individuals with pale cream tepals arise from seed, not hybrid, just a rare color variant.
5.tazetta 'siculus', as I wrote in another post, a fertile forms described from Sicily but found in other places in Southern Italy.
6.tazetta from hills between Molise and Apulia, narrow leaves, inflorescences with 2-4 flowers. Seed fertile.
7.papyraceus with rounded tepals, inflorescences more compact and smaller individual florets, found in Basilicata and Calabria several times. Seed fertile
8. tazetta found near the town of Policoro- Basilicata, an odd specimen sterile, which I have observed for years to be sure of its sterility.
9. tazetta from Gargano woods in Apulia, short form with twisted leaves, florets with a bigger and round cup. Seed fertile.
10. Avalanche, which is in my opinion just a natural form of tazetta, which reproduces true to type as seen in many occasions from other members of this group.
All these forms are in flower these days, some just at the end like papyraceus and tazetta orientalis, some at the first stage like the wild tazetta types. I have other wild tazetta types which bloom later, a very interesting one looks to be a 'giant' form, as large as Grand Monarque.
[attachimg=1]
see also comments in reply 81 below.
edit : see also second post from Angelo here : http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=16092.msg388857#msg388857 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=16092.msg388857#msg388857)
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That's a brilliant photo - so useful to have comparison shots like that, thank you for posting.
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Thanks, Maggi (and Angelo),
that's a very helpful pic - especially as it's bulb-buying season here ;D
Tazettas do very well here (though most Aussies call them "jonquills"!!!)
cheers
fermi
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Further to post of tazetta types reply 78, above :
Eric Breed: could nos. 8 and 9 be ssp. grandicrenatus ? and Avalanche maybe ochroleucus ?? (check Michael Salmons survey of the genus Narcissus).
Angelo Porcelli : I don't know Eric, tazetta and papyraceus are quite variable species very widespread in the Mediterranean. Ancient Italian florae like those of Parlatore described over a dozen of different species, which differ for minimal features often of little use. I don't have the work you mention.
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Anne : if you just upload a photo into a position in the text the forum's own system will resize it automatically.
This is an example pic from Jens Birck....
(Attachment Link)
This photo was 1280 x 960 and 242kb in size - automatically resized when loading to open in the same page. Easier than resizing photos to load in the other ways, which need to be under 200kb and we recommend around 750 pixels at widest point.
Here goes..
Apart from Trumpet Voluntary this is my earliest trumpet this year. One of the seedlings from Candlepower x cyclamineus - unregistered so far.
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By 'eck - it works!
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Told you! Works even better for photos in the text!
This is a pretty pale daff - gotta love a dainty trumpet!
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Here goes..
Apart from Trumpet Voluntary this is my earliest trumpet this year. One of the seedlings from Candlepower x cyclamineus - unregistered so far.
:o :D :P
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Narcissus romieuxii (‘Atlas Gold’ x self) x N. bulbocodium (subsp. obesus x var. genuinus)
A potful newly flowering seedlings :) The right one in the first picture is my favourite, wider corona with deeper yellow.
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That is a real beauty Tatsuo and a lovely deep yellow.
The fun of growing from seed - three sisters from a cross between N. cantabricus and N. romieuxii rifanus. Don't know where the twin flowers came from! I think some triandrus might have sneaked in when I wasn't looking 8)
The sun came out today! Then it snowed. And rained. And blew.
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That is a real beauty Tatsuo and a lovely deep yellow.
The fun of growing from seed - three sisters from a cross between N. cantabricus and N. romieuxii rifanus. Don't know where the twin flowers came from! I think some triandrus might have sneaked in when I wasn't looking 8)
The sun came out today! Then it snowed. And rained. And blew.
Anne I have had twin flowers appear on a number of bulbocodium group seedlings the first time they flowered my excitement was dash d as they have never had twin flowers again.
I hope yours are better behaved.
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Anne I have had twin flowers appear on a number of bulbocodium group seedlings the first time they flowered my excitement was dash d as they have never had twin flowers again.
I hope yours are better behaved.
Me too. I hope they don't stay, they look too crowded. I like to see the hoops in splendid isolation on the stem.
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Narcissus 'Mitimoto', most of my narciss are already faded :-X
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Nice bi-colour hoops, Yann ;)
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Narcissus romieuxii, split corona type.
Not for conservative people who like traditional hoops ::) ;D
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Narcissus from North Jaen, Andujar. N. bulbocodium subsp. bulbocodium and N. cantabricus
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N. cantabricus and N. jonquilla
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N. fernandesii
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Rafa
[attachimg=1]
Has this one pale pollen or has it no fertile pollen.
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I think it hasn't pollen, like an empty bag
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As always, wonderful to see these in the wild Rafa 8)
Thank you.
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I think it hasn't pollen, like an empty bag
Thanks Rafa, for another wonderful series of pictures.
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Narcissus 'Viridiflora Cultivar 2'. Should this be under "Spring flowering Narcissus"?
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
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I think you're right - it's time for Narcissus February 2018!
Rafa - some stunning photos (I am with you in spirit)
Tatsuo, I think your hoops exploded..... ::)
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Tatsuo, I think your hoops exploded..... ::)
;D ;D ;D
Then, a new topic has been posted.
Narcissus - February 2018 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=16092.0)