Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: Martin Baxendale on April 02, 2008, 12:57:50 PM
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Anyone else finding snowdrops dying down early this year? I recall someone mentioning this earlier in the season, and I think Mark said his crocus are dying down early too.
I'm finding early flowering snowdrops (some reginae-olgae, 'Remember, Remember' and 'Three Ships' in particular) are yellowing and dying back now, which is much earlier than usual for me. Also, some seed pods are ripening much earlier than usual (I harvested my first fully ripe yellow pod yesterday from 'Three Ships'.)
I imagine it must be down to the mild winter (hardly any frosts here at all) allowing the early snowdrops to do much more growing in December, January and February than in cold winters, so that by now they've completed their growth cycle, bulbs fully formed and ready to die down. Plus we're getting quite mild weather for the time of year, which may also make them think early Summer has arrived.
Just to be sure, I'll be checking on those bulbs that are dying back, to see if the bulbs are fully formed, firm and healthy. But the leaves look healthy, so I expect the bulbs to be okay.
However, I'd be interested to know if others are finding the same sort of trend.
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Martin, surely if a plant has ripened its seed pod, then its work is done for the year and so it WOULD be dying back?
When I think that 'Three Ships' for example, is often spoken of as being in flower for Christmas, then it cannot be expected to hold its leaves for too much longer than into April, can it?
We haven't got much in the way of EARLY snowdrops and indeed, those that many would consider early to main season snowies are still flowering here. We have still fresh flowers on some elwesii and nivalis.
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Hi Maggi. Here even the earliest snowdrops (including reginae-olgae) usually keep their leaves until roughly the same time as the later ones. I guess because in a cold winter they can't do much in the way of growing and photosynthesis in Dec/Jan, so don't end up much ahead of the later snowdrops in terms of growth cycle.
The later snowdrops develop their leaves much faster and also fatten and ripen their seed pods much faster than the autumn snowdrops and early winter ones, so that they all end up (usually) at the same stage by the end of the season, with the autumn snowdrops only ripenign their seed pods maybe a week or two before the late snowdrops.
This is the first time I've noticed the early snowdrops dying back much earlier than the main-season ones. As you say, once the bulbs have fattened up, there's no need for the leaves any more, and I guess keeping the leaves after the bulb is firm and ready for dormancy could actually be bad for the bulb, making it more likely to attract sucking insect pests and consequent virus infection.
I just wondered if others were finding this (with snowdrops or other bulbs, where the winters have been mild recently).
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None of mine so far but more worried about the Crocus that are dying back especially chrysanthus 'Sunspot' and sieberi 'Ronald Ginns'. The latter I know has gone wrong because the leaves have failed to grow beyong a couple of cm
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Mark asked that I post this photo of his very tall snowdrop. I don't know if this is the place for it, but here it is anyway - it really is a giant.
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Thanks! The flower can just be made out. We should have thought about it more and used the coat as a background. As a reminder the height was 20 inches 51cm.
Anne can you remember where the Erythroniums were? When I went back to take photos I couldnt find them
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Here is a group of 'Cambridge' almost died down photographed today
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Given normal spring temperatures (ie 3-10c) how long does it usually take Galanthus to ripen its seeds... in weeks or months?
thanks
johnw
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The books say snowdrop seed ripens late May to June but it depends a lot on the season and where the garden is. I'm finding seed pods ripening earlier in these mild winters and warm springs. Last year I harvested most seed late April to mid May after most snowdrops flowered quite early, mainly mid-Jan to mid-Feb. So I guess for main-season snowdrops you're looking at about 3-4 months for seed pods to mature, depending on the weather (warm weather = faster ripening). The autumn snowdrops take much longer, ripening their pods not much earlier than the Jan-Feb snowdrops, so there it's more like 6 months. The pods aren't ripe until they start to turn yellow.
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Rob, if the elwesii are growing healthily then the early die-back may not be a problem. I reckon some early-flowering snowdrops are simply dying down earlier due to warmer winter weather speeding up their growth cycle. Did you sow the reginae-olgae seed this Spring? If so, you won't get germination until next Autumn/Winter when the seed has been exposed to Summer warmth followed by Autum/Early Winter cold. If the seed was sown last year and hasn't germinated yet, then here again you won't get any germination now until Autumn/Winter.
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Rob, the snowdrop seed pot will be best in a shady spot. Snowdrops that have been lifted and mailed in the green will often die down earlier than the same varieties in the ground, because of the disturbance. If the bulbs are firm then they've completed their growth cycle and die-back is no problem.
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Martin i noticed the same thing over here, and i think its also because of the mild winter. They had the chance to grow all the time , and when you check the bulbs most of them are fullgrown. But i have not found any ripe seedpod jet.
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Hi Gerard. I've only found one ripe seed pod so far, on plicatus 'Three Ships'. I think the ripening of the seed pods has slowed down because we have had cold Spring weather in the last couple of weeks, but some of the bulbs have finished their growth cycle and are starting to get yellow leaves. I have found that sometimes the leaves will die down while the seed pod and stem are still green and still ripening.
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Most of my collection is now turning yellow. Narcissus fly time is almost upon us!!
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The first of my snowdrop foliage is now turning colour.
Paddy
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I just disposed of my first Narcissus fly today. It's time to remove ALL yellowing and dry leaves
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Just got another while removing leaves. Someone also asked recently how big they are so here's a photo showing my fingers and thumb. My thumb nail is 1.5cm across
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all my galanthus,except one,have died down.i chequed the bulbs and now they will be moved from the greenhouse to their summerbed outside.this year i will cover them a bit so they don`t get so wet as last year.hope they survive summer well.in sept/oct i will pot them in fresh compost for the next season and place them in the greenhouse again.those are bulbs that i have more than one or two,their twins are in the soil in the garden.now i am waiting for dormant bulbs that i ordered month`s ago.for me dormant bulbs do better than bulbs in the green.
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Anyone seeing the fly in the garden? Yesterday I was in a garden in Holywood just outside of Belfast. The owner said "I dont have Narcissus fly". Within 10 minutes I saw two
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Anyone seeing the fly in the garden? Yesterday I was in a garden in Holywood just outside of Belfast. The owner said "I dont have Narcissus fly". Within 10 minutes I saw two
I swatted three yesterday with my tennis racket as they settled on snowdrop leaves. I always hear them before I see them - their loud whining sound in flight really is so distinctive, it sounds like no bee or fly I've encountered. Wish I could record it and post it somehow; might be useful for forumists unfamiliar with the little b***ers.
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Re Narcissus fly:
I have spent the last week on my knees - have no worry, I am not taking to religion at this late stage of my life - I have been attempting to clear the boom of weed which has followed on our recent wet spell. While on my knees and tidying up around narcissus and snowdrops a thought came to me (Yes, I will, as my wife always advises, treasure it as again she says thought seldom comes to me).
This is what came to me: when bulbs send up their shoots in the spring, these shoots have to force their way through the soil and as they expand they form a sort of vertical tunnel through the soil. This 'tunnel' is formed while the plants are in growth and when the flowers begin to wilt and lose bulk in the stem the tunnel still holds its shape. When the narcissus fly arrives on the scene s/he now has a ready-made passageway direct to the bulb.
Would it not, I thought, be good gardening practice to freshen up the soil around the stems of wilting bulbs, narcissus and galanthus in particular, so that this tunnel is closed to this pest.
Another thought on similar lines, are there any good companion plantings which might be put with snowdrops and the likes which would act as a repellant to narcissus fly? People regularly plant marigolds along with carrots to dissuade carrot rootfly. Any thoughts?
From purely garden appearances, what do you grow with your snowdrops? What plants do you find grow best with snowdrops; do not interfere with them when they are in growth yet cover up the bare patches when they are gone. Personally, I find G. Buxton's Blue a very suitable companion. The root of this geranium remain compact; it does not run about but the plant covers a large area when in growth and in flower and then dies back to its small root area.
Paddy
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This is what came to me: when bulbs send up their shoots in the spring, these shoots have to force their way through the soil and as they expand they form a sort of vertical tunnel through the soil. This 'tunnel' is formed while the plants are in growth and when the flowers begin to wilt and lose bulk in the stem the tunnel still holds its shape. When the narcissus fly arrives on the scene s/he now has a ready-made passageway direct to the bulb.
Would it not, I thought, be good gardening practice to freshen up the soil around the stems of wilting bulbs, narcissus and galanthus in particular, so that this tunnel is closed to this pest.
Paddy, this seems an eminently sensible suggestion. Yes, there is a custom made entry point for the pest.. it may well be that a simple ruffling of the soil around the stems might be enough to deter the flies....has to be worth a try, at least. I like the idea of a companion planting which might act as a deterent, also... that is a trick ier proposition, since the aim is not just to make the area look good but to have some anti-pest effect also.... I will be most interesed to hear any ideas on this score.
As an aside, I saw my first "tied-up" narcissus leaves today! A practice I abhor....why folk cannot leave the poor leaves be to die naturally I do not know. These were tied together in little sheaves, with string.... at least they were still upright and able to provide some food back to the bulbs, rather than the poor strangulated things teid into knots that are all too common a sight.... >:( :( :-[ :'(
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there is a galanthus named baxendales late does this one have any connection to you by any chance?
It was named by Philip Ballard after my dad, who gave it to the Ballards.
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I am not so organized as to have companion plants to follow on.
Everything grows all together in a great jumble - snowdrops,
anemones, erythronium, trillium, epimediums, rhododendrons,
Pacific Coast iris, fuchsias. I never really have bare patches -
even my pathways are covered with self-sown erythroniums
and such, and they just have to put up with being trod on.
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I've just finished sowing the last of my snowdrop seed for this year. 117 pots, all different crosses, anything from 10 seeds to 50 seeds per pot. Say an average of 25 seeds per pot, that makes just under 3,000 seeds sown. This is getting out of hand!
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The problem arises when they all flower and you have to quit your job
to scrutinize them all and record all the resulting data.
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The problem arises when they all flower and you have to quit your job
to scrutinize them all and record all the resulting data.
Luckily I work from home, which is ideal (possibly essential) for this kind of breeding work, where you need to be around in the day when weather conditions are just right and the flowers you want to cross are open but before pollinators get to them, so you can be constantly checking for things eating your seed pods, for seed pods ripening, etc, etc, etc.
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My seed pods are beginning to ripen now but some are still very green. A huge one on 'South Hayes' has gone for the half and half look, but it is suspended above the ground and I may tie a muslin bag round it? I do that with Trillium grandiflorum, as I am usually away on holiday when the seed pods ripen. The are round the parent plants are full of seedling of various ages.
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Howdy All,
If people have spare seeds of named or unusual Galanthus varieties (particularly larger forms, unusuals like 'Trym' and 'South Hayes' etc, plus anythign else that is different) please let me know. Many varieties grown overseas aren't available over here in Aus (and the quarantine procedures include the use of Methyl Bromide which is rather toxic to Galanthus) and I would like to get some of the genetics into the country, maybe even manage to flower seedlings similar to the original..... would like to do some breeding of Galanthus myself in the future where time permits. It may be too late now for seed, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to at least ask. Happy to trade if possible, or can buy seed if that is preferable.
Thanks in anticipation.