Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Bulbs => Crocus => Topic started by: Maggi Young on September 05, 2017, 11:36:51 AM

Title: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Maggi Young on September 05, 2017, 11:36:51 AM
Olga Bondareva has been in the mountains, the Caucasus,  with friends once more .... here are some of her wonderful photos of Crocus scharojanii in the wild .....

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]

[attachimg=4]
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Maggi Young on September 05, 2017, 11:38:34 AM
Here are some of the variations seen - Olga wonders whether the opinion is that they are hybrids or forms of C. scharojanii ....... must say I think they are forms .... so very beautiful, every one of them.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Maggi Young on September 05, 2017, 11:43:35 AM
Of course, Crocus vallicola grows in the Causcasus also - this photo  by Olga....

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: pehe on September 05, 2017, 06:01:15 PM
Beautiful pics of this rare and hard to grow Crocus!

Thanks for showing us. I would have loved to be there myself.

Poul
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: pehe on September 06, 2017, 09:03:56 AM
Flowering in my garden yesterday:

Crocus suworovianus
Crocus speciosus (or one of the new species), early clone from Russia.
Crocus autranii, vallicola, banaticus First Snow and cappadocicus is in bud too. More pics to follow.

Poul
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Roma on September 06, 2017, 03:56:04 PM
My first crocus of the season on September 1st
Crocus pulchellus
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: tonyg on September 07, 2017, 08:41:46 AM
An early start to the season here in Norfolk.  It was much cooler at night in August than is usual.  This seems to have triggered early rooting and early growth in some bulbs.  Happily I have been able to repot the bulbs much earlier this year.

The first crocus to flower is in the garden, Crocus serotinus salzmannii which in some forms is a long lived garden plant here.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Maggi Young on September 07, 2017, 10:57:31 AM
Such a lovely time of the Crocus year.  Pity we've got so many mice about the place!
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: pehe on September 07, 2017, 03:45:39 PM
A few more Crocus has opened today

Crocus cappadocius
Crocus suworovianus lilacinus
Crocus banaticus First Snow

Poul
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: tonyg on September 07, 2017, 06:33:18 PM
Such a lovely time of the Crocus year.  Pity we've got so many mice about the place!
I noticed on the BL :'(
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Yann on September 07, 2017, 07:12:31 PM
that's early, no sign of growth yet for my Crocuses.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Sam Eijkenboom on September 08, 2017, 05:43:18 PM
How can I remove this message? I accidentally created this message but I don't know how to delete it. ???
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 08, 2017, 06:22:55 PM
At first I want to thank all my friends and forumists for Bon wishes at my 71!
As I hoped - I finished repotting of crocuses in August, really only 30th of August I potted my last corms and in same date I got 2 parcels with another crocuses, which were immediately potted. So late potting isn't easy, some crocuses already made very long shoots (you can see those in picture of Crocus cancellatus s.l. from near Gurun, Turkey) and harvesting of such + cleaning takes time, to not broke long young shoot.
Next day all were watered and only few days later first flowers popped up. Now every day new and new flowers comes up, but I'm still harvesting and potting, potting. Yesterday finished harvesting of Scilla, today Ornithogalums and finished potting of Corydalis solida cultivars. Hardly hope to finish before mid-October.
And as the first started blooming of Crocus scharojanii var. flavus. Flowers were immediately pollinated. I regarded it as sterile hybrid, but Henrik told me, that it set seeds, so I want to cherck this. Some pollens were used on flowers of Crocus vallicola and C. suworovianus.
This autumn many species starts blooming together. Only a day later opened first flowers of C. autranii (not yet pictured - but today there are plenty of them).
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 08, 2017, 06:28:16 PM
As I wrote - many species start blooming simultaneously. On this entry flowers of Crocus vallicola from Russian Caucasus, originally collected by Henrik Zetterlund few years ago.
On the last picture is C. vallicola from Soģanli pass in NE Turkey. By flower it more resembles Crocus suworovianus, but its corms lied in soil horizontally (in suworovianus they lie on side).
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 08, 2017, 06:31:55 PM
Crocus suworovianus this autumn blooms in same time as C. vallicola. Here pictures of this crocus collected on various mountain passes.
From Crocus cancellatus group the first this year bloomed C. mazziaricus s.l. from Samos Island, Greece.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 08, 2017, 06:38:22 PM
Today started the first C. gilanicus collected in Iran in spring 2016. Corms were very small, but some blooms.
C. gilanicus easy hybridizes with C. autranii. In F-1 seedlings looks almost as true C. autranii only are very slightly lighter, but in F-2 occurs great splitting. The first this year came out white seedlings.
From C. speciosus group the first always is C. ilgazensis. Sometimes it is overpassed by Crimean C. puringii, but this autumn the last only shows out noses. Crocus ilgazensis has the smallest flowers in the all group.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 08, 2017, 06:42:57 PM
I'm every day making some pictures, but I'm so tired in evenings that can't find power to work with them after returning from greenhouse. Actually more important for me now would be writing and despatching of invoices for sold bulbs to my customers, but every evening I'm telling to myself - I will do this tomorrow. The same happened today, too - I gave preference to pictures and forum, not to business.
In this, last entry for today, three lilac crocuses - Crocus cappadocicus, C. karduchorum and C. suworovianus lilacinus.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: sokol on September 09, 2017, 09:08:00 PM
An early start to the season here in Norfolk.  It was much cooler at night in August than is usual.  This seems to have triggered early rooting and early growth in some bulbs.  Happily I have been able to repot the bulbs much earlier this year.

The first crocus to flower is in the garden, Crocus serotinus salzmannii which in some forms is a long lived garden plant here.

When I have read your post I thought it isn't out here but to my surprise I discovered it in the garden some hours later.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: sokol on September 09, 2017, 09:12:09 PM
I'm every day making some pictures, but I'm so tired in evenings that can't find power to work with them after returning from greenhouse. Actually more important for me now would be writing and despatching of invoices for sold bulbs to my customers, but every evening I'm telling to myself - I will do this tomorrow. The same happened today, too - I gave preference to pictures and forum, not to business.
In this, last entry for today, three lilac crocuses - Crocus cappadocicus, C. karduchorum and C. suworovianus lilacinus.

Now your Crocus have overtaken mine. My single Crocus ilgazensis corm has now the fourth flower but no signs of the others like Crocus cappadocicus.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Yann on September 10, 2017, 03:34:44 PM
First Crocus of the season, Crocus ilgazensis x pulchellus fantasy from Janis
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: sokol on September 11, 2017, 08:28:12 PM
Many Crocus are coming now out of the ground but just a few are in flower.

Crocus mazziaricus ex Prespes
Crocus pulchellus
Crocus cancellatus

The last two are puzzling me as
the Crocus from Enos in Kefallonia looks like Crocus niveus but this is not within the known distribution.
and I do not know what species the Crocus is that I have got as Crocus antalyensis.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Yann on September 11, 2017, 08:39:25 PM
Good lighting gives good photos, very nice set.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: sokol on September 11, 2017, 08:52:45 PM
It is hard to get a spot with sunlight in these dark and rainy days. But today I had luck as the sun came out just when I arrived here after work.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Steve Garvie on September 11, 2017, 09:14:49 PM
Crocus vallicola
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4334/36991073722_9b9751b11f_o_d.jpg)

Crocus autranii
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4376/37020036391_eb0bfbafc8_o_d.jpg)

Crocus banaticus albus
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4331/36991074002_83d08933ca_o_d.jpg)

Crocus karduchorum ex SASA-102
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4340/37020036901_94d0bdb06a_b_d.jpg)
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: tonyg on September 11, 2017, 10:16:41 PM
Many Crocus are coming now out of the ground but just a few are in flower.

Crocus mazziaricus ex Prespes
Crocus pulchellus
Crocus cancellatus

The last two are puzzling me as
the Crocus from Enos in Kefallonia looks like Crocus niveus but this is not within the known distribution.
and I do not know what species the Crocus is that I have got as Crocus antalyensis.
Nice crocus.
The niveus looks correct for that species.  I think the mystery 'not antalyensis' is Crocus serotinus, most likely salzmannii.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: tonyg on September 11, 2017, 10:19:05 PM
The first Crocus nudiflorus in fresh flower today.  So beautiful - do I need to grow any others?  ;)
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: sokol on September 12, 2017, 05:19:10 AM
Nice crocus.
The niveus looks correct for that species.  I think the mystery 'not antalyensis' is Crocus serotinus, most likely salzmannii.

Thanks Tony I will compare it with my other salzmannii when it is really open.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Steve Garvie on September 14, 2017, 10:02:20 PM
Crocus pallasii ex Crimea
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4359/36991074942_5afde7f66d_o_d.jpg)

Crocus cappadocicus
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4338/36991073842_7a1532efb4_o_d.jpg)

Crocus karduchorum
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4402/36991073102_58dd715521_o_d.jpg)

Crocus pulchellus -I think this is a pulchellus but I would be grateful for opinions.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4401/37020036681_3ac0ecbe4a_o_d.jpg)
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: David Nicholson on September 15, 2017, 03:49:24 PM
My first Crocus of the season, grown from 2012 Crocus Group seed- Crocus pulchellus ex 'Zephyr'
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: sokol on September 16, 2017, 06:08:32 AM
Nice plants David and Steve.

Crocus mazziaricus was the last to come out not really open and will probably suffer outside because a rainy period is forcasted.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: pehe on September 18, 2017, 08:21:27 AM
Grown from own seeds 2014: Crocus vallicola x scharojanii flavus. It looks almost as vallicola, but the color a bit more yellowish and the throat without purple lines and yellow dots.
Below is a typical  Crocus vallicola.
The last one is a nice form of Crocus suworovianus

Poul
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: sokol on September 18, 2017, 07:46:39 PM
Nice pictures Poul. Here no sign of Crocus vallicola, probably no flowers this year. But some others are starting to flower now.

Crocus cappadocicus
[attachimg=2]

Crocus kotschyanus leucopharinx
[attachimg=3]

Crocus mazziaricus ex Chelmos
[attachimg=4]

Crocus pumilus ex Afendis, Crete
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Crocus banaticus
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Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Yann on September 18, 2017, 08:17:36 PM
After torrential rains the very few Crocus in bloom are now in bad state. Crocus kotschyanus has started to bloom.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 20, 2017, 04:28:55 AM
Grown from own seeds 2014: Crocus vallicola x scharojanii flavus. It looks almost as vallicola, but the color a bit more yellowish and the throat without purple lines and yellow dots.
Below is a typical  Crocus vallicola.
The last one is a nice form of Crocus suworovianus

Poul
Very nice hybrid and pleasant colour! I tried such cross this autumn - pollinated few vallicola and few suworovianus flowers with pollen from scharojanii flavus.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 20, 2017, 07:38:25 PM
I'm still repotting and repotting. Yesterday finished with Muscari s.l., today almost all Ornithogalums were potted, remained some 50 pots and then will start potting of Irises. In evenings, when tired from mowing of pots I'm writing planting books, recording position of each pot but meanwhile crocuses are blooming and everyday some new flowers comes out, although blooming still isn't very abundant. Seem that it is caused by unusual weather. We had horrible rains and Paeonia field for two days looked as lake. All wheat fields around our house still stay unharvested just for raining every day. But some nice crocuses bloom and I will try to show you some.
Still blooms Crocus autranii - here pictures of true, unhibridized plants sent to me by Dima, who collected them for me at locus classicus in Abkhazia.
Blooms some of large "speciosus" group.
As always marvellous is Crocus bolensis
And especially beautiful again is Crocus brachyfilus, named by me as subsp. elegans, which more responds to this beautiful species.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 20, 2017, 07:47:20 PM
Crocus cappadocicus every autumn surprises me by variation in its flowers. All those are from Southern population. I'm still looking for some plants from Northern population
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 20, 2017, 07:51:43 PM
Crocus gilanicus I have for many years, but only in spring 2016 collected few plants by myself in Iran. Now they blooms for the first time. Crocus gilanicus easy hybridizes with Crocus autranii. F-1 seedlings all as one looks identical with C. autranii and you can separate them only having side by side - hybrids are slightly smaller and lighter, but seeing alone identification is impossible. In F-2 starts great splitting. Here pictures of true C. gilanicus from NW Iran and F-2 generation hybrids from cross with autranii.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Yann on September 20, 2017, 09:25:52 PM
Janis, cappadocicus is magnificent  :o
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 21, 2017, 05:06:58 AM
Blooms true Crocus pallasii. True pallasii I think is growing in Crimea, Ukraine (at present occupied by Russia), how far it reaches in West and South, I don't know. In Macedonia and in Greece it is replaced by C. macedonicus (not blooming yet) - very similar by flowers, but with different corm tunics. What is status of so named "pallasii" from Aegean Islands and SW Turkey? This enigma can be solved only by DNA research, not available for me at present. This problem is highlighted in review about my book published in "The Alpine Gardener" of AGS.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 21, 2017, 05:26:10 AM
Here picture of so named "pallasii"from W Turkey - the first from many which started blooming - usually they blooms after Crimean typical pallasii.
Similar problem is with C. mazziaricus. My hard opinion is that true mazziaricus grow only on Pelloponesse but on mainland Greece, Aegean Islands and in Turkey it is replaced by other species. Plants from Pelloponesse are whitish but those in direction to East are blue.
From other Greek species started blooming of C. hadriaticus.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 21, 2017, 05:34:13 AM
Still are blooming Crocus suworovianus and Crocus vallicola. They were between the first this season and now still are in flowers although now their blooming goes to end. In this entry unusual forms of C. suworovianus and f. lilacinus. I collected such together with white ones in E Turkey and between seedlings comes out white and lilac specimens. Are they pure suworovianus or even wild hybrids - again only DNA can explain this.
Another shown here is C. vallicola. That from Zigana pass has very typical appendages ("tails") on flower segments tips, in that from Artvin they are less expressed. Sometimes only position of corm in soil can allow identification between both species (on Soģanli pass, and some Artvin individuals).
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 21, 2017, 05:52:45 AM
Still more about confusing crocuses. One of the most confusing is "speciosus" group. No one put under doubt Mathew's ilgazensis and xantholaimos. Ilgazensis really is the smallest and earliest from this group, can be overpassed only by Crimean C. puringii, which can bloom even at end of July. C. xantholaimos even at locus classicus sometimes has very pale yellow throat. No problems to separate mine C. ibrahimii and C. sakariensis. Less easy and sometimes can confuse C. archibaldiorum and C. brachyphilus. Others need more careful checking of minor morphological details which can be quite variable and the best is use of genetics for checking number of chromosomes and their morphology which is very different in C. puringii, bolensis, striatulus (of HKEP). But there are still several isolated populations throughout Turkey and most likely in Iran, too.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 21, 2017, 07:01:52 PM
Some more pictures from yesterday. Today again is too cloudy for pictures, but few more species started blooming, although flowers remained in bud (CC. banaticus, pulchellus albus).
The first two pictures are from C. cancellatus. By locality seem to be type species, but as in C. pallasi sometimes identification is not easy, although this sample looks correctly identified.
On next pair of pictures extremely rare in cultivation C. hakkariensis. I got it from Dirk (many thanks!) and this one turned true species. Before that all what I got under this name turned wrongly named. Later I received some other samples collected at locus classicus.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 21, 2017, 07:07:32 PM
Similarly rare is true C. karduchorum. Problem is that it most likely easy hybridises with other related species - typical plants must to have white stigmatic branches (although I saw wild plants with slightly yellowish toned branches, too). Between seedlings appear individuals with yellow stigmas. Here you can see F-2 seedlings of C. karduchorum.
From European crocuses the first which starts blooming this year is C. salzmannii.
And last picture for today - Crocus turcicus from C. pallasii group.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 22, 2017, 08:07:59 PM
Today here started Indian Summer. The first day in last month without rain. I'm still repotting my collection. Today finished Gladiolus and American non-Alliums, but tomorrow I will start with bulbous irises. Of course during day a lot of crocuses were pictured, too, but those I will show you tomorrow (I hope...). Today something different but related to crocuses.
Crocuses are excellent honey source for different insects. They are pollinating flowers and rewarded by nectar. But there are some "clever" visitors who learned how to get sweet without "payment". On the first 3 pictures you can see some moth which reach nectar from side, pushing long tongue (see on 2nd picture) between flower segments.
Last two shows diligent worker - common honey bee covered by pollens and coming out from flower along stigma leaving on its sticky surface a lot of pollens ensuring good seed crop.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: sokol on September 22, 2017, 08:57:42 PM
Wonderful Crocus and pictures and interesting how clever those insects can be.

Some pictures from the last days.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: ashley on September 22, 2017, 11:21:48 PM
Wonderful pristine crocuses Janis 8) 
Here in my garden karduchorum, vallicola and pulchellus struggled against the rain and slugs this year.

Very interesting to see a Latvian honeybee.  Are they usually so yellow?
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 23, 2017, 05:59:39 AM
Wonderful pristine crocuses Janis 8) 
Here in my garden karduchorum, vallicola and pulchellus struggled against the rain and slugs this year.

Very interesting to see a Latvian honeybee.  Are they usually so yellow?
Latvian native bees are darker and very furious, tended to swarming. I worked with them in young years. They are very winter hard and productive. But now true (clean, unhibridized strains) are only in few isolated localities. I'm working now with Kraina strain - peaceful and productive. Not so good in our winters, but working with them is pleasure.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 23, 2017, 06:16:08 AM
The first banaticus opened flower - this one comes from Trajanus. Unusually early this year.
Next two pictures are from Crocus gilanicus collected last spring in NW Iran, on coastal ridge at altitudes from 2000 - 2700 m.
Then again one of F-2 hybrids between gilanicus and autranii. Interesting that as the first always blooms white forms and then follows those lilac ones.
And crocus on the last picture always confuses me - it is C. suworovianus lilacinus from Kisidagi gec (2120 m alt.). Never before it was so dark. I checked all my picture library from former years. If it wouldn't be September but spring by the first impression I would  name it as C. veluchensis or C. pelistericus.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 23, 2017, 12:17:29 PM
Some species from C. speciosus group archibaldiorum, brachyfilus and C. zubovii and
hybrid between ilgazensis and pulchellus named by me 'Fantasy' and as last - albino of C. pulchellus
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Yann on September 23, 2017, 04:41:56 PM
lovely sets of crocuses, no sign of them here. Still too warm.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 23, 2017, 07:25:43 PM
some mistake happens, making double entry
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 23, 2017, 07:27:35 PM
Between seedlings of C.salzmannii appear few white individuals. Original white cultivar 'El Torchal' turned virus infected and was destroyed few years ago.
Blooms quite special "pallasii"- JJJ-016. It was marked for herbarium and pressed today.
Not pleasant was blooming of 2 mazziaricus between plants labeled as C. georgii, but this perfectly explains situation why this species was overlooked for so long. Its story is well explained in B. Mathew's Monograph. Following his advices I successfully found locality and collected some corms, but corm tunics of both are so similar, that identification of them without flowering time and leaves seem close to impossible. Leaves of georgii is so distinctly ribbed that these are easy observable even in herbarium (see photo in my Monograph).
Blooming of autumn crouses still is very sparse, although many started to show out noses and leaf tips.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: sokol on September 23, 2017, 09:46:15 PM
Nice pictures as always Janis and an impressive look over your collection.

I have some Crocus that puzzled me last year. I have got them as Crocus salmannii. Today they opened their flowers together with Crocus zubovii and I realised that they are probably this species.

Crocus zubovii
[attachimg=1]


probably Crocus zubovii
[attachimg=2]

probably Crocus zubovii
[attachimg=3]

probably Crocus zubovii
[attachimg=4]
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: tonyg on September 24, 2017, 12:37:19 AM
In the open garden:
Crocus boryi x tournefortii
Crocus niveus
Crocus tournefortii
Crocus nudiflorus
All have been outside here for years, the niveus at least 15 years, the tournefortii 25 years!
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: tonyg on September 24, 2017, 12:41:52 AM
In pots- all seed raised:
Crocus banaticus  from seed sown Autumn 2014, one early flower
Crocus goulimyi raised from wild collected seed.
Crocus goulimyi leucanthus
Crocus pulchellus
Crocus ilgazensis LB 599 from near the type locality
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: tonyg on September 24, 2017, 12:43:58 AM
More potted crocus again all seed raised:
Crocus karduchorum
Crocus kotschyanus
Crocus salzmannii - three subtly different forms.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 24, 2017, 05:25:22 AM
Nice pictures as always Janis and an impressive look over your collection.

I have some Crocus that puzzled me last year. I have got them as Crocus salmannii. Today they opened their flowers together with Crocus zubovii and I realised that they are probably this species.

Crocus zubovii
(Attachment Link)


Afraid that it is some seedling of commercial cultivars of "C. speciosus". Crocus zubovii in type forms must to have striped cataphylls, although not always. I haven't picture of zubovii cataphylls, but they are similar to those of hellenicus (attached here) although in zubovii stripes are not so impressive. Unfortunately not always cataphylls are striped. C. zubovii never was offered commercially and up to now is grown only in few collections of travellers who visited its locality and collected there few corms.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 24, 2017, 05:55:27 AM
Crocus speciosus group is very difficult for identification. Here I'm showing two (may be 3) different ones. The first is Crocus bolensis. Its main feature is stigmatic branches ending level with anthers or below their tips, although even in Locus classicus I saw small group of 5 plants with stigma well overtopping anthers. On the first picture are plants from Lake Abant - type locality. On picture #2 plants from Ballidaģ, located quite distantly to East - both grow in +/- shaded positions between trees, not much entering open meadows. On the #3 - plants from  Kuyucak Yaila, located between both, but growing on open yaila in full sun, and there stigmatic branches mostly overtop anthers, so is it still bolensis or something else, isn't possible to judge without DNA, but I would be careful to name it as "bolensis". Status of bolensis can be doubted, because of different chromosome number and of different chromosome morphology.

On last two pictures very special "speciosus" blooming with me for the first time. It was collected in Iran in spring, 2016. It was growing at altitudes 2300-2700 m on open meadow, and was distinctly stoloniferous, length of stolones at least 5 cm (see picture in my book), forming very small corms, only few were with 3 leaves, and actually I'm very surprising for its blooming this autumn. It was found in direction to East from locality of C. archibaldiorum. Even C. arhibaldiorum this year surprises me - usually having stigmatic branches hidden between or +/- level with anther tips, this autumn gave stigmas much overtopping anthers (in sample HKEP-1553), still keeping typical colour pattern of C. archibaldiorum.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: ashley on September 24, 2017, 02:39:31 PM
Latvian native bees are darker and very furious, tended to swarming. I worked with them in young years. They are very winter hard and productive. But now true (clean, unhibridized strains) are only in few isolated localities. I'm working now with Kraina strain - peaceful and productive. Not so good in our winters, but working with them is pleasure.

Similarly here Janis, where our native black bees are more feisty but better adapted to the climate.  Usually I can work them without gloves but rarely without a suit - except when approaching a swarm ;) ;D   

Crocus banaticus
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Maggi Young on September 24, 2017, 02:50:06 PM
Hagen Engelman showed this lovely pale  lilac colour variant of Crocus banaticus on Facebook :
Crocus banaticus 'SILBERLING'

[attachimg=1]

 edit to add another photo  from Hagen

[attachimg=2]

Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 24, 2017, 04:27:21 PM
Similarly here Janis, where our native black bees are more feisty but better adapted to the climate.  Usually I can work them without gloves but rarely without a suit - except when approaching a swarm ;) ;D   

Crocus banaticus
I'm never using gloves, nor working with plants, nor with bees. Facemask - yes, but in most cases with open net, sometimes I use complete suit, but mostly only facemask. Maximum pricks what I got in one occasion was slightly less than 200 (yes, 2 hundreds), but it was in youth (I think in 1967). Had no problems. Was approaching thunderstorm, my face mask's net was with holes, fume stopped work; all pricks were between shoes and pants, in palms and in neck. Bee family had problems and became very aggressive.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on September 24, 2017, 05:05:35 PM
Wonderful Crocusses people !

They are waking up here also :

Crocus xantholaimos (speciosus) popped up through the Gypsophila repens I planted it under, to give it some support.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on September 24, 2017, 05:11:31 PM
Crocus hadriaticus ssp. parnassicus from seed ex Marcus Harvey :'(



Crocus karduchorum from Bitlis, Turkey
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Yann on September 24, 2017, 07:42:34 PM
whouah all those colors, they're joy of autumn! Crocus karduchorum is  ::)
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: sokol on September 24, 2017, 08:50:53 PM
Afraid that it is some seedling of commercial cultivars of "C. speciosus". Crocus zubovii in type forms must to have striped cataphylls, although not always. I haven't picture of zubovii cataphylls, but they are similar to those of hellenicus (attached here) although in zubovii stripes are not so impressive. Unfortunately not always cataphylls are striped. C. zubovii never was offered commercially and up to now is grown only in few collections of travellers who visited its locality and collected there few corms.

I have looked at the cataphylls this morning and one of the two pots has plants with stripes.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: sokol on September 24, 2017, 09:00:35 PM
Let's stay at this difficult group. A friend of mine has sent me pictures of two Crocusses today, that he had collected at Kefalonia this year, probably at Enos. I am not sure whether this is Crocus hellenicus or not.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 25, 2017, 04:49:41 AM
Let's stay at this difficult group. A friend of mine has sent me pictures of two Crocuses today, that he had collected at Kefalonia this year, probably at Enos. I am not sure whether this is Crocus hellenicus or not.
If it belongs to "speciosus" group it is new locality for Greece. On attached map by red dot is marked locus classicus, by brown - another locality from where I have plants but didn't see them in wild, although were there at least 3-4 times, my plants came from Gothenburg BG and from UK,
Yellow mark shows the third locality from where it is recorded, but where I didn't found it and didn't see any plant from there, only C. mazziaricus.
Green mark used for probably locality on Kefalonia.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: pehe on September 25, 2017, 08:30:09 AM
Variations in Crocus nudiflorus:

Blue with yellow stigma
Blue with white stigma, a seedling from the above
White with yellow stigma

Has anyone seen a white with white stigma?

Poul
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: sokol on September 26, 2017, 05:43:23 AM
Nice variations of Crocus longiflorus Poul. I prefer the one with the white stigma.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: sokol on September 26, 2017, 05:44:15 AM
If it belongs to "speciosus" group it is new locality for Greece. On attached map by red dot is marked locus classicus, by brown - another locality from where I have plants but didn't see them in wild, although were there at least 3-4 times, my plants came from Gothenburg BG and from UK,
Yellow mark shows the third locality from where it is recorded, but where I didn't found it and didn't see any plant from there, only C. mazziaricus.
Green mark used for probably locality on Kefalonia.

Thanks Janis
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: sokol on September 26, 2017, 10:56:13 AM
Some more Crocus from yesterday.

Crocus dispataceus
[attachimg=1]

Crocus pallasii ex Chios
[attachimg=2]

2x Crocus pallasii ex Samos
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]

Crocus turcicus ex Osmaniye
[attachimg=5]
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: sokol on September 26, 2017, 10:59:23 AM
Next pictures are from Crocus puringii and a comparison with my big flowered Crocus speciosus that flowers everywhere in the garden.

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 26, 2017, 11:03:55 AM
Thanks Janis
When those pictures are maid? I suppose that not this autumn ?
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: sokol on September 26, 2017, 11:04:58 AM
And here are the last ones.

Crocus banaticus Albus
[attachimg=1]

Crocus caspius
[attachimg=2]

Crocus kotschyanus
[attachimg=3]

Crocus asumaniae
[attachimg=4]

Crocus zubovii and Crocus speciosus with big flowers
[attachimg=5]
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: sokol on September 26, 2017, 11:06:41 AM
When those pictures are maid? I suppose that not this autumn ?

The bulbs were collected in April on Kefalinia and planted in my friends garden. They flowered there last weekend.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: sokol on September 26, 2017, 08:29:32 PM
I like this photogenic species, Crocus cambessedesii.

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Yann on September 26, 2017, 11:14:57 PM
Crocus tournefortii, funny how late mines are this autumn.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 27, 2017, 05:15:51 AM
Strange, strange season - strange (usually darker) colours, development timer etc., etc. To illustrate this here picture of white form of Crocus speciosus from Ijevan in Armenia made in 2015 and yesterday in 2017. You can see that stock increased well, but where is beautiful white colour? Similar lilac shaded this autumn is white form of Crocus bolensis.
I'm usually destroying corms which at repotting time looks ill or poor, they are very exceptional cases, if the plant is very rare, when I'm planting them, but then on label I'm writing - year and words - bad  quality. Surprisingly, but in most cases they recover and sometimes even grew better than those of same form which looked perfect. In 2016 I potted 5 corms of Crocus kotschyanus albus labeled as "almost died" - this year harvested 3 corms of superb quality and size, 2 died. So I saved this nice and extremely rare in cultivation form.
Shortly ago I showed interesting C. speciosus aff. sample from high altitudes in Iran, which had very small, very stoloniferous corms. It was growing together with Crocus gilanicus. Corms were so small that separation was not easy, so in one pot were planted both species. Here you can compare size of both when they started blooming here.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 27, 2017, 05:26:27 AM
As I wrote in previous entry - season is very stranger - some blooms much earlier than usually should be. Crocus caspius here usually is late bloomer, but now it started blooming and usually just white forms blooms earlier, but now just lilac one came out.
Here you can compare very nice type Crocus pallasii from Crimea and Crocus pallasii aff. from Samos Island, Greece.
Crocus hadriaticus collected at Langadia (together with C. georgii) has very nicely striped segments outside.
From Europeans now blooms C. nudiflorus.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 27, 2017, 05:37:05 AM
And last entry for today (at least for this morning)
Crocus pallasii aff. collected at Dirmil gec. in SW Turkey
Crocus turcicus from Lebanon
Very early blooming of C. pulchellus from Mt. Falakro in Greece
I have very few old cultivars of Dutch Crocus speciosus grown by me since 60-ies of last century and the last one to bloom always was Oxonian, now it blooms together with usually much earlier Artabir, but Albus still didn't show even noses.
Strange season...
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Pauli on September 27, 2017, 07:02:39 PM
Janis,

I very much enjoy your fantastic pictures of rare crocuses that I will never see in real life!
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: sokol on September 27, 2017, 08:35:33 PM
I agree with you Herbert it is always a pleasure to see these pictures.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: sokol on September 27, 2017, 08:45:10 PM
Let's stay at this difficult group. A friend of mine has sent me pictures of two Crocusses today, that he had collected at Kefalonia this year, probably at Enos. I am not sure whether this is Crocus hellenicus or not.

Some additional pictures have shown that this Crocus is Crocus mazziaricus.

I didn't told you that we did the trip together and we collected the Crocus bulbs at the same places. It is confusing that there are always different Crocus blooming. He had Crocus boryi some days ago whereas I had Crocus niveus at the same time. Today Crocus hadriaticus opened its flowers here and he has Crocus mazziaricus now.

Two further pictures not from our trip this year.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 28, 2017, 04:42:47 AM
Some additional pictures have shown that this Crocus is Crocus mazziaricus.

I didn't told you that we did the trip together and we collected the Crocus bulbs at the same places. It is confusing that there are always different Crocus blooming. He had Crocus boryi some days ago whereas I had Crocus niveus at the same time. Today Crocus hadriaticus opened its flowers here and he has Crocus mazziaricus now.

Two further pictures not from our trip this year.
Yes, this definitely is C. mazziaricus and not hellenicus.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: David Nicholson on September 28, 2017, 06:42:33 PM
Some common ones from the greenhouse today:-

Crocus longiflorus, from Crocus Group seed 2009
C. vernus, from Crocus Group seed 2012
C. goulimyi
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: sokol on September 28, 2017, 07:58:50 PM
David, your Crocus vernus looks like a Crocus pulchellus.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: sokol on September 28, 2017, 08:17:11 PM
Crocus gilanicus started today.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: David Nicholson on September 28, 2017, 08:48:52 PM
David, your Crocus vernus looks like a Crocus pulchellus.

Thank you Stefan, the name should have told me it wasn't right shouldn't it ;D
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: sokol on September 29, 2017, 05:11:57 AM
Thank you Stefan, the name should have told me it wasn't right shouldn't it ;D

Yes it should ;).
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 29, 2017, 07:43:59 AM
Some common ones from the greenhouse today:-

Crocus longiflorus, from Crocus Group seed 2009
C. vernus, from Crocus Group seed 2012
C. goulimyi
Your "vernus" is pulchellus, David.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 29, 2017, 07:45:10 AM
Crocus gilanicus started today.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)
Excellent gilanicus!
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 29, 2017, 08:11:09 AM
Blooming in my collection this autumn is very slow and I'm afraid that will not be very abundant display, but some nice flowers come out, although sequence of blooming is quite unusual. I suppose that reason is very cold summer and due watering/fertilizing problems in spring corms were smaller than usually.
This form of Crocus dispathaceus I got from Jim Archibald labeled as collected W of Muģla - it is quite far to West from typical area for this species and such acquisition isn't listed in Archibald's Master List, but plants looks quite typical, although colour is lighter, but I have no reason to put naming under doubt.
The lilac C. hadriaticus I bought from Antoine Hoog. So deep lilac flowers I never saw by myself in the wild, although occasionally lilac shaded forms I met in wild.
Crocus archibaldiorum I found during my first visit to Iran and described by their first blooming in my collection in the first autumn. Great was my surprise when genetics from Gatersleben told me that leaves sent for DNA contains very special genome of "speciosus" group and genome of pulchellus. I sent leaves from seedlings as original stock heavily suffered in the first winter and I almost lost it. Seedlings looked identical with originally collected plants. Later I restored it from new collection and another stock got from Germany. It has very special colouring type making identification quite easy, although position of stigma according anthers can vary.
On last two pictures are
Crocus pallasii s.l. from Turkey in Europe
and Crocus from cancellatus group, originally collected on Topuz pass between Urgup and Kayseri together with C. ancyrensis. Both has so similar tunics that were collected as cancellatus.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: David Nicholson on September 29, 2017, 09:53:20 AM
Your "vernus" is pulchellus, David.

Thank you Janis, as I said to Stefan the name should have told me it wasn't right.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: sokol on September 29, 2017, 08:11:09 PM
Next species that opened today is Crocus oreocreticus

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]

and Crocus mazziaricus from Kyllini / Ziria in Northern Peloponnese.

[attachimg=3]
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 30, 2017, 06:44:16 AM
When I went to Crimea to search for the typical Crocus pallasii in its locus classicus (it was 3 years before Russia occupied Crimea) I collected only 3 pure white individuals, but I saw around 120-15 in very huge population near Kaya-Bash. But now between seedlings of it more and more whiter flowering individuals appear, each slightly different in flower shape, blooming time. Here two pictures from yesterday.
Start blooming of C. pulchellus - here sample collected near Čan in NW Turkey
For the first time blooms this acquisition of Crocus zubovii - there were several gatherings along road up to pass. On last picture you can observe typical stripes on cataphylls of this species.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 30, 2017, 06:49:50 AM
In this entry at first Crocus banaticus - bicoloured from Trajanus and 2 pictures from W Ukraine, E Carpathian mountains, near Mukachevo
Then seedling from C. cartwrightianus Purple Heart and
as last - Crocus clusii, kindly sent to me by Zhirair.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 30, 2017, 06:58:26 AM
The last pictures maid yesterday.
Still confused by colours. Here C. kotschyanus grown under label "White throat" collected in Syria by Jim Archibald when it was peaceful and friendly country. This autumn in its throat suddenly appear yellow spots and stigma turned much more divided. Here you can compare pictures from the same stock in 2016 and in 2017.
Next kotschyanus is from Turkey - HKEP-9317
Then another Crocus dispathaceus, from region where it is quite distributed but with lighter lilac flowers than characterised by E.A. Bowles, but in all aspects it is typical plant.
And on last picture - some colour variation in C. nudiflorus.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Yann on September 30, 2017, 10:22:01 AM
interesting
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 30, 2017, 06:07:24 PM
Few pictures from today. Not many new came out, but I'm not disappointed - all the time I'm repotting and not much time for pictures. Today finished with Alliums and brought inside Cyclamens. Now left to plant only Tulips and Oxalis. Hope to finish next week or a little later. But in "Crocus World" today blooms:
Started blooming old Dutch cultivar of C. speciosus 'Albus'. Strange, usually it blooms well before 'Oxonian', but this year vice-verse.
On next two pictures are two forms of C. pulchellus - both comes from Chios Island. I mostly like this lighter one (KJGR-057C).
Out of Pelloponesse C. mazziaricus mostly have bluish toned flowers. Here plant from near Thiva.
And as last today - selection from C. cartwrightianus made by Antoine Hoog and named by me after one of his sons as 'Marcel".
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: sokol on September 30, 2017, 09:20:50 PM
My first Crocus vallicola opened its flowers today, thanks to a kind forum member.

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]

Crocus cambessedesii is nicer from year to year.

[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]

and Crocus mazziaricus from Pagondas, Samos.

[attachimg=5]
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: sokol on September 30, 2017, 09:26:03 PM
Crocus banaticus grows in the open garden.

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]

and also Crocus speciosus that is coming out everywhere.

[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]

Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Yann on September 30, 2017, 09:50:52 PM
cambessedesii is very variable, some are elongated while other very compact, you grown a very nice form.

With nights getting cooler crocuses started to bloom, here's Crocus thomasii.
This is the second year grown in pure seramis, corms are twice the size of the ones grown in traditionnal mix soil, i'm thinking of repotting next year all my crocuses in these pebbles. I fertilise one time in two.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2017
Post by: Pauli on October 01, 2017, 02:53:05 PM
In Upper Austria there are also the first Croci out - more commen types
goulimyi
goulimyi leucanthus
goulimyi "Harlekin Type"
speciosus albus
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