Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Specific Families and Genera => Primula => Topic started by: FrazerHenderson on March 24, 2008, 02:21:08 PM

Title: Primula verticilllata - in situ
Post by: FrazerHenderson on March 24, 2008, 02:21:08 PM
Thought I'd share with you some shots of Primula verticillata taken in Yemen during February and March this year. I found the plant in four distinct locations. Location 1 at Kawkaban. Location 2 some 3 miles from Kawkaban near the village of Beduoga. Location 3 in the Haraz Mountains some 5 miles from Manaka and finally in a wadi at Beit Baws on the ouskirts of Sana'a.

All the pictures below are from location 1.

Picture 5 shows a typical flush through the rock face.
Title: Re: Primula verticilllata - in situ
Post by: FrazerHenderson on March 24, 2008, 02:26:23 PM
Pictures from location 2

(Location 4 should have read on the outskirts of Sana'a)
Title: Re: Primula verticilllata - in situ
Post by: FrazerHenderson on March 24, 2008, 02:56:15 PM
Pictures at location 3 which was next to path infrequently used by goats (which tend to clear all the vegetation). agin location nestled under an overhang with calcareous seepage providing nourishment to the plants. i provide a number of close ups to assist those with a particular interst in the genera.

Notice the broadness of the leaves as against those found at the other locations
Title: Re: Primula verticilllata - in situ
Post by: FrazerHenderson on March 24, 2008, 03:01:29 PM
Pictures from location 4 at Beit Baws.
Title: Re: Primula verticilllata - in situ
Post by: shelagh on March 24, 2008, 04:48:39 PM
Terrific pictures Frazer, will you be going back for seed?
Title: Re: Primula verticilllata - in situ
Post by: FrazerHenderson on March 24, 2008, 05:06:41 PM
Shelagh

I collected seed from location 1 but alas BAA contrived to lose my luggage between London and Edinburgh!

Frazer

Title: Re: Primula verticilllata - in situ
Post by: David Nicholson on March 24, 2008, 07:14:54 PM
Smashing pictures Frazer
Title: Re: Primula verticilllata - in situ
Post by: Lesley Cox on March 26, 2008, 08:10:33 PM
A genuine cliff dweller.
Title: Re: Primula verticilllata - in situ
Post by: FrazerHenderson on August 24, 2008, 08:36:10 PM
Shelagh

I collected seed from location 1 but alas BAA contrived to lose my luggage between London and Edinburgh!

Frazer



Shelagh
I managed to get a very small amount of seed from a particularly late specimen at Kawkaban and will donate all the seed to the SRGc Seed Exchange.

Frazer
Title: Re: Primula verticilllata - in situ
Post by: Magnar on August 24, 2008, 08:58:24 PM
Very interesting pics,, thanks a lot  :)
Title: Re: Primula verticilllata - in situ
Post by: Giles on August 24, 2008, 10:36:43 PM
It's very easy to grow.(South Midlands).I use ordinary Multi-purpose compost. Outside in the garden during the summer. Frost-free and dryish in the Winter.
A lady at my local AGS group is always chopping bits off to give away.
I recently acquired a P.simensis and hope it's going to be as easy!!
Title: Re: Primula verticilllata - in situ
Post by: Maggi Young on August 25, 2008, 03:54:20 PM
I know a lot of people who think they are growing P. verticillata who are, in fact, growing Primula x kewensis!  :o
Title: Re: Primula verticilllata - in situ
Post by: ashley on August 25, 2008, 03:57:55 PM
I know a lot of people who think they are growing P. verticillata who are, in fact, growing Primula x kewensis!  :o

So presumably that goes for simensis too then, but is x kewensis self-fertile?

Ashley
Title: Re: Primula verticilllata - in situ
Post by: Maggi Young on August 25, 2008, 04:08:12 PM
Ashley, I have found that there is considerable confusion in the primulas of the sphondylia secetion... all too often these plants.... thought by their growers to be verticillata, edelbergii, etc, turn out to be  P.x kewensis. I think that  P. x kewensis is self-fertile, though may require some help with a paintbrush, as quite a few of these primulas do, their long tubes keeping the vital parts rather far apart otherwise! :-X
Title: Re: Primula verticilllata - in situ
Post by: ashley on August 25, 2008, 04:36:46 PM
Ashley, I have found that there is considerable confusion in the primulas of the sphondylia secetion... all too often these plants.... thought by their growers to be verticillata, edelbergii, etc, turn out to be  P.x kewensis. I think that  P. x kewensis is self-fertile, though may require some help with a paintbrush, as quite a few of these primulas do, their long tubes keeping the vital parts rather far apart otherwise! :-X

So what are the distinguishing characteristics Maggi? 

My 'simensis'  ??? seeds about prodigiously in the sand bed without any help, but so far I've been unable to confirm (or otherwise) its identity.
Title: Re: Primula verticilllata - in situ
Post by: Maggi Young on August 25, 2008, 05:21:56 PM
As I understand it, simensis is  P. verticillata ssp. simensis ....... Have you Richards book?
Have a root around in the forum (old and New), since this has been discussed before I think.
Sorry for hasty reply but just back from weekend away and over 600 emails/posts to sort through and deal with! :o :)
Title: Re: Primula verticilllata - in situ
Post by: ashley on August 25, 2008, 06:30:44 PM
Will do, Maggi; thanks.
Title: Re: Primula verticilllata - in situ
Post by: ashley on August 25, 2008, 07:08:07 PM
Have a root around in the forum (old and New), since this has been discussed before I think.

Unfortunately I couldn't find much on verticillata & nothing on simensis, but maybe that's the search engine  ???

Any guidance on distinguishing simensis / verticillata / x kewensis appreciated!
Title: Re: Primula verticilllata - in situ
Post by: David Nicholson on August 25, 2008, 07:52:42 PM
Ashley,

I have Richards open on my desk.

"Primula simensis differs from P. verticillata as follows: heavily mealy so that leaves generally appear white; leaves usually neatly, and regularly toothed to a third of the leaf length, lateral veins about 7; corolla tube 20-30mm in length. In general a neater and more attractive plant than P. verticillata to which it is undoubtedly closely related"

"In 1899 a seedling of P. floribunda at Kew gardens was found to resemble P. veticillata, although with the leaf shape of it's mother. Later intentional crosses with P. v onto P. f proved the parentage of this cross (in fact it seems very possible that the pollen parent was not P. v but the closely related P. simensis). These hybrids were sterile, having poor chromosome pairings at meiosis (2n=18). However , they were vigorous growers and offsets were distributed. These formed fertile breeding lines on three separate occasions..........   Newton and Pellow interpreted this as alleotetraploidy, where a diploid hybrid, rendered sterile by poor chromosone pairing at meiosis, becomes fertile and true-breeding, effectively a 'new species'. after chromosome doubling. This hybrid P. x kewensis was the first case in which allotetroploidy had been shown to occur in cultivation."

I hope this helps and apologies for any mistyping and misspelling (I didn't understand most of what I was typing). If you need anything else give me a shout and I will look it up for you.
Title: Re: Primula verticilllata - in situ
Post by: shelagh on August 25, 2008, 07:57:01 PM
Thanks for the heads up Frazer I'll certainly look out for it along with all the other forumists.
Title: Re: Primula verticilllata - in situ
Post by: Maggi Young on August 25, 2008, 08:10:27 PM
David, many thanks for your assistance with the Richards' quotes.

 Ashley, I may have been mistaken.... there are few results for P. x kewensis, whicI had thought would lead you to useful info... perhaps it was in a Journal... when time permits I'll have a search around!
Title: Re: Primula verticilllata - in situ
Post by: ashley on August 26, 2008, 11:11:30 AM
"Primula simensis differs from P. verticillata as follows: ...

Many thanks, David; that's most helpful.  Unfortunately I don't have Richards' book & greatly appreciate the trouble you've taken.  Look's like my simensis is correct then :D

Thanks too Maggi (& with apologies for adding to that workload  :o)
Title: Re: Primula verticilllata - in situ
Post by: Maggi Young on August 26, 2008, 02:03:24 PM
Quote
Thanks too Maggi (& with apologies for adding to that workload  )
Good grief, no problem... just made me hungry, that's all!
Title: Re: Primula verticilllata - in situ
Post by: Giles on August 30, 2008, 10:41:42 PM
3 photos.
What I've got as labelled 'P.verticillata' is very different to what I've got labelled as 'P.simensis'
The P.verticillata is massive, the P.simensis is compact. Most of the meal on the P.simensis has been washed off
but you can see how thick it is in the crown of the plant. The leaf detail is of the 'P.verticillata'.
I grew P.x kewensis about 20 yrs ago from 'Suttons Seeds' and what came up had no meal at all.
1. 'P.verticillata'
2. 'P.v' leaf
3. 'P.simensis'
Comments greatly appreciated!!
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