Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: Shauney on February 20, 2017, 01:56:14 PM
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Hi I'm new here, I'm a landscape gardener and ask a customer who has a small woodland crammed with snowdrops if I could did up so snowdrops for my own garden. What a surprise I got when some of them flowered! I think It's so unusual that I had to find out if anyone here has ever seen anything like it! I look forward to hearing your comments. Thanks Shaun.
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(edit by maggi to turn the photo)
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Hi Shaun,
Welcome on board!!
It is difficult to conclude very much from one photograph of one flower. The thing to do is to keep an eye on it, and see if it pulls the same trick next year. Plants that consistently produce bizarre flowers are of interest to some people. I suggest you ‘leaf’ through the collection of photographs that Brian assembled on the ‘Galanthus that are truly easy to recognize!’ thread which appears in the ‘Sticky Topics’ section.
Have fun.
Tim DH
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Some more photos. I have 2 flowers that have done the same,1 is better than the other and looks very much like a slipper orchid. So I'm really hoping that as there are 2 bulbs doing it then it will be the same next year. The last pic shows another with 2 of the inner segment that are wavy.
(edit by maggi to rotate the photos)
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There have been some problems for folks posting pictures from their i-pads or smart phones - these are appearing either sideways or upside down when loaded to the forum.
It 's a question of how the pix were first saved I think. Not sure, since I don't use an i-pad or camera phone, so I consulted Ian about this.
He says if the pix are flipped in the device or as you resize them ( to make them display the right way up as you see them) then they will rotate when posted here, back to the original orientation. If you don't flip them they'll be correct here in the first place. ( with a bit of luck!)
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Thankyou Maggie for correcting them. I just sent them as they were in my phone which were the correct way up when sent. Just another one of life's mysteries!
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Looks like a Nivalis 2x2
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Looks like a Nivalis 2x2
Does that come in a four-wheel drive version?
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Thanks for your reply Emma, I've been gardening for 27 years and grew up on a farm but have never seen a 2x2 and can't find any for sale, is it something collectors aren't looking for in a snowdrop?
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Despite the multiplicity of shots I still find it difficult to see what is going on. I think there are three tiers of petals instead of the normal two. The outermost tier comprises normal outer petals but it seems there are only two. The next tier has very distorted petals that have some green towards the tip. And the innermost tier has normal inner petals, but only one or two.
A 'standard' 2x2 would just have two outer petals and two inners. It tends to occur in immature flowers; I'm not sure if any stable 2x2s are known.
These are curious-looking things but you will have to grow them on for a few years to find out if they are stable. There is something similar I can think of but better because the petals are not distorted. This one became known as 'Berthille' http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10185.msg269989#msg269989 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10185.msg269989#msg269989)
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Hi Alan, I will try and take some more closer pics tomorrow. It has only got 2 tiers and should have been an ordinary 3x3, but one of the outer petals has fused with two of the inners which has made it spoon shaped. One of the flowers is perfect and the other has still fused but a little more open.
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Thanks, Shauney, I think I can see that now. I cannot bring to mind any snowdrops with fused petals. I hate to be a doubting Thomas but could they have been exposed to anything sticky so the petals are stuck together rather than fused?
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Nothing sticky Alan, they are definitely fused.
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Sorry to bother you again Alan, but what do you think of the pic I posted earlier with frilly inners? Have you seen anything like that before? It has 3 outers but 4 inners only 2 of them are longer and frilly.
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If you look take a typical nivalis flore pleno and turn it upside down you will see that the inner petals are not neatly arranged nor, except rarely, all the same size; it's "messy". You are very likely to find some longer frilly petals in there but if there are fused petals in the mix then it's something I have never noticed. So one could think of your snowdrops as very weakly double (with only one extra inner petal) but still with something of the mess. Most galanthophiles favour symmetry in their flowers; some also like the extreme asymmetry of the spiky doubles. The trouble with your form, Shauney, is that is neither of those and does not look terribly attractive to my galanthophile eyes. Interesting, undoubtedly; pretty, no. But sometimes a massed display can look good where individual flowers do not. Or you might find if you look carefully through your snowdrops, and those in the woodland from which they came, then you can select-out some attractive symmetric forms and see if that symmetry is retained from one year to the next.
We might even be able to lend you the services of a galanthophile to help-out in the screening process but your profile does not reveal your whereabouts in the country. I would certainly come and take a look if it turned-out you were not too far from Cambridge.
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Thankyou Alan for your time and input. There are singles and doubles in the wood and I will definitely be looking more closely at snowdrops from now on. I live in Basingstoke Hampshire so a little too far away from you. Thanks Shaun.
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The person who springs to mind in your area is Paul Barney of Edulus Nursery in Pangbourne. He certainly has the snowdrop expertise but I have no idea if he would be willing to help - or indeed able as it's a very busy time of year for anyone who sells snowdrops commercially. His web site is http://www.edulis.co.uk/ (http://www.edulis.co.uk/) . He posts on this forum as 'uvularia' http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=24360 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=24360)
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Of course it also rather depends on whether this is a stable feature of the flowers. You don't live far from Michael Barron at Alresford, if he has any open days in the near future I would take one along for him to look at, he was a National Collection holder for some years.
It was a joy to meet Hanneke van Dijk yesterday as I was selling snowdrops at Ann Borrill's for the Dutch visit. In the afternoon we had people here to see the 'drops and I did notice one which had the same tendency to fuse and curl, if I can find it when I have time to go out there today I'll take a snap. It could be almost anything causing the bizarre formation but I can't stress more than it should be stable for some years. We didn't name 'Saraband' until it had shown it's characteristics for some five or six years running on the mature bulbs.
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I'm with Brian 100% on the need to establish stability. But I would say that the more snowdrops you have doing the same thing, the more likely it is that the phenomenon will repeat in future years. I had got it into my head that somewhere there was a whole wood full of snowdrops doing this sort of thing but that could be my misinterpretation of what was actually written.
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Thanks for the leads Alan and Brian I will look them up.
Not a wood full of them Alan sorry!
I have had a very quick look in the wood since discovering them but it is a thick carpet through most of it now so pretty difficult to get down and have a good look without squashing hundreds at a time! It's possible there could be more but can't remember the exact spot I dug them up from as I was digging up clumps to spread around there garden. I have 2 bulbs that have done the same so I'm guessing it must be pretty stable. Will have to wait until late next year to see what happens to be sure. I'll keep you posted. Thanks Shaun.
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I knew there was one here doing the same thing, of all things it is Robert Wijnen a lovely present from a forumist who knows my prediliction for GRYM snowdrops, it's first year flowering too.
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Thanks for finding the snowdrop Brian. It looks like yours is just two of the inners that have fused,where on mine it was one of the outer petals that had fused with two of the inners. Still nice to see an oddity. Shaun.
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I like this odd little fellow
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I like the one in pics 3.
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I found another snowdrop with one of the outer petals fused to two of the inners.
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Also found this bizarre looking double.
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And this freaky thing!