Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: Maggi Young on January 26, 2017, 04:11:03 PM
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Members in the USA often say they are short of snowdrop /galanthus sellers - well, judging by these photos, John Lonsdale of Edgewood Gardens (http://www.edgewoodgardens.net/)will have a good list of bulbs for sale later in the year!
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I know very little about Cornovium Snowdrops http://www.cornoviumsnowdrops.co.uk/ (http://www.cornoviumsnowdrops.co.uk/) but they do export to the USA and they don't seem to charge an unreasonable amount to do this.
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We've mentioned a few sellers in the past who will export to the US - good to see John L. having a good number for sale in Pennsylvania though - in case exports do not continue to be available.
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Thanks for the post Maggie. Yes, folks here are psyched that John is putting out a list this year. The demand is high and the few suppliers that are physically here in the U.S. frequently run out of the more desirable collectables within a day or a few days of posting their lists.
We are delighted that John is throwing his good name and reputation in the ring as a new Snowdrop supplier.
Cornovium has been very appreciated by American Snowdroppers, and we hope they will continue to provide quality dormant bulbs for a good long time.
Even with John entering the market, demand will continue to vastly outweigh supply.
Here's a pint lifted to John!
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I remember seeing somewhere recently that the CITES requirement for snowdrops does not apply for hybrids whose parentage can be documented, or something like that. I must try and investigate more, unless someone already knows?
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I remember seeing somewhere recently that the CITES requirement for snowdrops does not apply for hybrids whose parentage can be documented, or something like that. I must try and investigate more, unless someone already knows?
All ears! A voice of reason in the midst of chaos on this topic. Hope there is depth behind that information. Keep us posted!!
Thanks,
Rick
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That would be good Anne.
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Anne - If this is indeed true would you then consider possible shipments to Canada? Furthermore if the bulbs were grown in soil-less medium in a greenhouse I reckon a phyto would also be easier to attain as the nematode/ potato wart & cysts issues would not apply nor would the necessary soil monitoring.
I am trying to get a copy of our last Colesbourne CITES certificate to see exactly what was stated on it.
A further thought, I suspect a very low percentage of G. hybrids can be authentically documented without dna testing quite unlike your controlled crosses. So many hybrids have presumed parentages or hybridizers are unwilling to mention exactly what the crosses were. I guess we need to peruse the relevant section of CITES.
john
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I'm trying to find out and have emailed a contact at FERA/APHA. It is VERY difficult to find answers to this kind of thing on the CITES website.
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I'm trying to find out and have emailed a contact at FERA/APHA. It is VERY difficult to find answers to this kind of thing on the CITES website.
Anne -- this may be a link to the information you recently read, not sure, as you say, this whole CITES regulatory complex is rather inscrutable. https://cites.org/sites/default/files/notif/E-Notif-2016-064-A.pdf. (https://cites.org/sites/default/files/notif/E-Notif-2016-064-A.pdf.) It does include a reference to hybrids being exempt from some restrictions, but only those from Article I of CITES. However, galanthus is listed under Article II, so not clear if/how the hybridization issue pertains. U.S. Department of Agriculture regulations seem to state that for plants listed in Article II, the permitting process is controlled by the exporting country, i.e., the U.K in this case. https://www.fs.fed.us/wildflowers/Rare_Plants/conservation/lawsandregulations.shtml. (https://www.fs.fed.us/wildflowers/Rare_Plants/conservation/lawsandregulations.shtml.) However, there seem to be any number of U.S. regulations about importing as well: https://www.fws.gov/le/pdf/CITESDocumentRequirements11142007.pdf (https://www.fws.gov/le/pdf/CITESDocumentRequirements11142007.pdf)
I will see if I can get any clarification via the US. Department of Agriculture Animal & Plant Health Inspection Service on this issue -- not that I am optimistic, I have no particular contacts there, but I did work many years in the Federal bureaucracy, with luck maybe I can wend my way to whatever the answer is on this side - but expect it will be a slow process. But then so is germinating a seed sometimes.
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I know very little about Cornovium Snowdrops http://www.cornoviumsnowdrops.co.uk/ (http://www.cornoviumsnowdrops.co.uk/) but they do export to the USA and they don't seem to charge an unreasonable amount to do this.
My experience as a first-time U.S buyer from Cornovium has been very positive so far -- a shipment of nice-looking dry bulbs late this summer, and although none have bloomed yet, many are nosing through, some with doubles -- and they were very accommodating with my ever-increasing additions to my original order and associated permit fee and shipping adjustments.
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The only info I've found so far refers to animal hybrids ::)
Any exports would have to be summer dormant - parcels to the US can take a LONG time to get there!
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Anne - Exporting Canada should be easier than to the USA. We must apply for a permit which usually takes a couple of days if done online and the permit itself is faxed to us. It outlines the phyto requirements precisely and the need for a CITES certificate, the Canadian permit # must appear on all documents. Parcels are inspected usually at the point of entry to Canada and sent on to the recipient. Our Colesbourne shipments took anywhere from 5 days to 10 days and that was to BC most recently.
I'll let you know when I see what the CITES stated or one of the permits.
johnw
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As the U.S importing coordinator for Cornovium, we have seen so far a very consistent two days for the shipment to get to U.S. Customs and then another one to two days to clear and ship to me for distribution...all within less than a week's time and folks this year got bulbs in their mail box within eight to ten days of the shipment date from the UK with the dormant bulbs arriving in prime condition.
The process is rather involved as has been alluded to, but with an eye to detail, appropriate certifications and permits at both ends in hand, and a willingness to track and manage the shipment process, it can work rather seamlessly, though with a fair amount of effort and expense.
All very well worth it from the receiving end. If commercially traded bulbs could be carved out of the CITES restrictions, it would be a voice of reason in very well intended laws and regulations. It would sure be encouraging to all of us to have a more open door to more readily access named bulbs (species variants or hybrids) that are being traded in commerce.
Rick
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so far a very consistent two days for the shipment to get to U.S. Customs and then another one to two days to clear and ship to me for distribution...all within less than a week's time and folks this year got bulbs in their mail box within eight to ten days of the shipment date from the UK with the dormant bulbs arriving in prime condition. [/quote]
That is very fast! :)
You would expect mail from UK to Finland be even faster, but it is the same 8 to 10 days (but if I send anything to the UK, it arrives in 3-5 days). I think it is the Finnish mail which is so slow, and they are now going to get even slower, especially to the countryside. Earlier a letter sent in Finland would be expected to arrive the next day, or the day after that at the latest, but now new legislation is giving the mail a permission to have time to deliver a letter in five days instead of earlier two. >:(
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Hi All,
I have been very lucky to have an excellent contact at APHA to help with getting the correct documentation in order to ship our bulbs over to the US. With regards to Galanthus hybrids not needing a CITES certificate, this is untrue. On every certificate we have to put the relevant species of the Snowdrop or if a cross we must write hybrid. Our CITES certificates once filled in and sent over to CITES then get forwarded on to Kew Gardens and they will contact us if the see a variety of species of Snowdrop that they cannot find any written information about. We have had this happen once with a cultivar that was relatively new and we forwarded them the details of who we bought the bulb of for them to check. They are very thorough. Getting the CITES certificates back can take up to 3 months, if they are really busy and it is bird season at CITES! I should also mention that they are meticulous with regards to the forms being filled out properly and will return them if they are not satisfied!
With regards to the Potato nematode certificate, our soil is tested every year for the US as this their requirement.
In order to be given the pystosantiary certificate every bulb is individually inspected by the lady from APHA using a hand held microscope! If she was not happy the bulbs they would not be allowed to be despatched.
In the last box that we sent over there was 2kg of paperwork which included the CITES, phytosanitary certificate, Potatoe nematode certificate and the import licences for the US. Without all of this paperwork the bulbs would not be allowed through customs! The courier company that we used also inspect the bulbs in the box to make sure that we have the correct paperwork and that we are only posting what we say are on their documents. We also had to register with the government as exporters to get a special number to put on all of our documentation, otherwise the parcel would be delayed in UK customs! I should also mention that US customs will not allow the box to travel if you do not pay the import duty once it has cleared their customs.
I apologise for rattling on here, I just thought that you might like to here first hand what it takes as a business to get the bulbs to the US.
Best wishes,
Jane
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Sound somewhat similar to Canadian requirements. In our shipments as you mention every cultivar & selection had its own CITES certificate, the first form I received from the friend who handled the shipments was for 2 Straffan, there must have been a huge stack of CITES sheets with every shipment over the years.
john
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Also worth noting that the cost of an export CITES certificate is the same whether the shipment contains one bulb or 10000 bulbs. So best to combine orders into one shipment!
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Hi All,
I have been very lucky to have an excellent contact at APHA to help with getting the correct documentation in order to ship our bulbs over to the US. With regards to Galanthus hybrids not needing a CITES certificate, this is untrue. On every certificate we have to put the relevant species of the Snowdrop or if a cross we must write hybrid. Our CITES certificates once filled in and sent over to CITES then get forwarded on to Kew Gardens and they will contact us if the see a variety of species of Snowdrop that they cannot find any written information about. We have had this happen once with a cultivar that was relatively new and we forwarded them the details of who we bought the bulb of for them to check. They are very thorough. Getting the CITES certificates back can take up to 3 months, if they are really busy and it is bird season at CITES! I should also mention that they are meticulous with regards to the forms being filled out properly and will return them if they are not satisfied!
With regards to the Potato nematode certificate, our soil is tested every year for the US as this their requirement.
In order to be given the pystosantiary certificate every bulb is individually inspected by the lady from APHA using a hand held microscope! If she was not happy the bulbs they would not be allowed to be despatched.
In the last box that we sent over there was 2kg of paperwork which included the CITES, phytosanitary certificate, Potatoe nematode certificate and the import licences for the US. Without all of this paperwork the bulbs would not be allowed through customs! The courier company that we used also inspect the bulbs in the box to make sure that we have the correct paperwork and that we are only posting what we say are on their documents. We also had to register with the government as exporters to get a special number to put on all of our documentation, otherwise the parcel would be delayed in UK customs! I should also mention that US customs will not allow the box to travel if you do not pay the import duty once it has cleared their customs.
I apologise for rattling on here, I just thought that you might like to here first hand what it takes as a business to get the bulbs to the US.
Best wishes,
Jane
Jane, I'm exhausted even reading about it!
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I think Jane hit all of the major permutations on importing Galanthus to the U.S. A heroic effort by Jane and Dave on preparing for the event of a shipment, let alone growing, digging and packaging the bulbs...quite an undertaking. I can personally vouch for every U.S. recipient that I have talked with as they are immeasurably appreciative to access the wonderful range of bulbs being grown and shipped across the seas by Cornovium Snowdrops. No one knows the ins and outs of this extremely convoluted process any better than they.
This is why I expressed such hope at the remote prospect of CITES requirements for hybrids to be reduced, but alas, we are saddled with it all for the foreseeable. A huge thank you to Jane and Dave for going through these veritable gauntlets and mazes in order to accommodate us pesky Yankee enthusiasts.
Rick
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Another supplier of snowdrops in the US of A :
http://www.jerryfritzgardendesign.com/shop/snowdrops/?fbclid=IwAR0Mx2g9i7flgFtMMy5O2AUuHJZxt11UI95S2l8xTQdDGKDFxP94KixxaJg (http://www.jerryfritzgardendesign.com/shop/snowdrops/?fbclid=IwAR0Mx2g9i7flgFtMMy5O2AUuHJZxt11UI95S2l8xTQdDGKDFxP94KixxaJg)
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Another supplier of snowdrops in the US of A :
http://www.jerryfritzgardendesign.com/shop/snowdrops/?fbclid=IwAR0Mx2g9i7flgFtMMy5O2AUuHJZxt11UI95S2l8xTQdDGKDFxP94KixxaJg (http://www.jerryfritzgardendesign.com/shop/snowdrops/?fbclid=IwAR0Mx2g9i7flgFtMMy5O2AUuHJZxt11UI95S2l8xTQdDGKDFxP94KixxaJg)
A pity the list depends so heavily on the "composer" series of snowdrops. Opinion in the UK seems to be that these owe their existence more to a Dutch marketing ploy than to intrinsic merit. And I wonder if 'Blue Trym' arrived with a Cites certificate?