Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

General Subjects => General Forum => Topic started by: David Nicholson on January 26, 2017, 01:21:40 PM

Title: THE ROCK GARDEN-January 2017
Post by: David Nicholson on January 26, 2017, 01:21:40 PM
My bulk supply arrived from the Printer today so it won't be long before yours arrives through your letter box or in-box.

Two new advertisers this edition:-

The first is Vira Natura Tours a company owned and operated by Chris and Basak Gardner the authors of "Flora of the Silk Road" and I note from their Web Site that signed copies of the book are still available from the Web Site.
http://www.viranatura.com/ (http://www.viranatura.com/)

The second is Green Wings Wildlife Holidays who donate 10% of profits to support nature conservation.
http://greenwings.co/ (http://greenwings.co/)

As well as our regular supporters such as Naturetrek and Dix Export we have adverts from no less than 16 nurseries in this edition so do take a look through the advertising pages and get your cheque books and credit cards nicely warmed up.
Title: Re: THE ROCK GARDEN-January 2017
Post by: Maggi Young on January 26, 2017, 01:42:52 PM
Looking forward to the arrival of the journal  - hope it won't be long - I have received from the Editor an image of the cover for the  electronic version for e-members -

[attachimg=1]

For copyright reasons it is not possible to show online the  cover image of the printed journal -  however the image is available to see by following this link :
https://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/924280/narcissus-radiiflorus-narcissus-poeticus-crown-imperial-fritillaria (https://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/924280/narcissus-radiiflorus-narcissus-poeticus-crown-imperial-fritillaria)

The printed cover is an image of a watercolour in the Royal Collection (which TRG was given permission to use only in the print journal)  by
Alexander Marshal (c. 1620-82)  of
 Narcissus radiiflorus, Narcissus poeticus, Crown imperial (Fritillaria imperialis), auriculas (Primula x pubescens Jacq.)

  [/font]
Title: Re: THE ROCK GARDEN-January 2017
Post by: Mini bulb lover on January 28, 2017, 02:12:08 AM
I believe the missing images in the electronic version of The Rock Garden 138 illustrates a problem with the electronic membership. While I can understand that there are issues with copyright, it means that electronic members aren’t receiving the full journal. The website links to the missing photos on pages 1 and 3 are broken. They take you to the Royal Collection Trust main page, not the photos themselves (I believe because of the formatting of the link – anything after the top line isn’t connected). While this could be fixed and re-posted on the SRGC website I feel it still ruins the look of the journal. It’s also true that websites are dynamic and can change over time so the website links to the photos in the electronic version of The Rock Garden 138 may change in the future.

In subscribing to electronic membership I expected an exact copy of the printed journal. The subscription page on the SRGC website states electronic membership is, “…for those who wish to access the Journals etc online only”. I think if I had been warned before subscribing that some photos wouldn’t be included in the electronic version it would have changed my mind about subscribing electronically. Maybe copyrighted images should not be used in future journals or electronic subscribers should be warned on the subscription page that some content in the printed version of The Rock Garden may not be included in the electronic version.
Title: Re: THE ROCK GARDEN-January 2017
Post by: Ian Y on January 28, 2017, 10:33:55 AM
Jon


I believe the missing images in the electronic version of The Rock Garden 138 illustrates a problem with the electronic membership. While I can understand that there are issues with copyright, it means that electronic members aren’t receiving the full journal. The website links to the missing photos on pages 1 and 3 are broken. They take you to the Royal Collection Trust main page, not the photos themselves (I believe because of the formatting of the link – anything after the top line isn’t connected). While this could be fixed and re-posted on the SRGC website I feel it still ruins the look of the journal. It’s also true that websites are dynamic and can change over time so the website links to the photos in the electronic version of The Rock Garden 138 may change in the future.

In subscribing to electronic membership I expected an exact copy of the printed journal. The subscription page on the SRGC website states electronic membership is, “…for those who wish to access the Journals etc online only”. I think if I had been warned before subscribing that some photos wouldn’t be included in the electronic version it would have changed my mind about subscribing electronically. Maybe copyrighted images should not be used in future journals or electronic subscribers should be warned on the subscription page that some content in the printed version of The Rock Garden may not be included in the electronic version.


Thank you for your feed back.

I have checked and the links are good in the original PDF but may be broken depending on what PDF viewer you are using in which case just copy and paste the full link into your web browser.

The online copyright issue is one that we will take on board, learn the lesson and I hope that it will not occur again.



Title: Re: THE ROCK GARDEN-January 2017
Post by: Gabriela on January 28, 2017, 03:15:02 PM
Last night I've enjoyed my first electronic Journal and apart the problem mentioned by Jon it was a very pleasant experience :)
Looking at it from the point of view of reducing the waste of paper and other resources - I think, especially for members living out of UK, it is a very useful feature.
It also makes the SRGC membership more accessible for more people which maybe won't pay a full subscription/ also for younger potential members who are used with accessing everything on-line.



Title: Re: THE ROCK GARDEN-January 2017
Post by: Mini bulb lover on January 30, 2017, 02:03:30 AM
Thanks Ian.  :)

Gabriela- all valid points.
Title: Re: THE ROCK GARDEN-January 2017
Post by: ashley on January 30, 2017, 12:22:22 PM
I second Gabriela's comments, and thank the editorial team and contributors for the latest IRG issue.

Can the missing images be posted here (in the Members' area if necessary) or does copyright preclude this too?
If the problem can't be resolved then I would also think twice about electronic membership despite much preferring to save on resources.
Title: Re: THE ROCK GARDEN-January 2017
Post by: Maggi Young on January 30, 2017, 01:57:53 PM
Sadly, the arrangement made with the Trustees of the Royal Collections forbids the  use of the images by the SRGC online.
However, there is no barrier to members who wish to download or even print out the missing images. Here are links to all three images which could not be shown in the online  version of  TRG138 :


 https://www.royalcollection.org.uk/search/site/924280 (https://www.royalcollection.org.uk/search/site/924280)

https://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/924280/narcissus-radiiflorus-narcissus-poeticus-crown-imperial-fritillaria (https://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/924280/narcissus-radiiflorus-narcissus-poeticus-crown-imperial-fritillaria)
https://d9y2r2msyxru0.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/collection-online/1/7/257129-1330624260.jpg (https://d9y2r2msyxru0.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/collection-online/1/7/257129-1330624260.jpg)
 
 
 https://www.royalcollection.org.uk/search/site/924344 (https://www.royalcollection.org.uk/search/site/924344)

 https://www.royalcollection.org.uk/search/site/924344 (https://www.royalcollection.org.uk/search/site/924344)
 
 https://d9y2r2msyxru0.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/collection-online/a/5/281005-1336150061.jpg (https://d9y2r2msyxru0.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/collection-online/a/5/281005-1336150061.jpg)
 
 
 
 
  https://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/924281 (https://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/924281)
 https://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/924281/auriculas-primula-x-pubescens (https://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/924281/auriculas-primula-x-pubescens)
 
  https://d9y2r2msyxru0.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/collection-online/b/d/257132-1330624264.jpg (https://d9y2r2msyxru0.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/collection-online/b/d/257132-1330624264.jpg)
 
 In each case the first  link is to the general page of the image, with  info about the painting, the second is a larger depiction of the image and the third is to a hi-resolution of the image which can be download at will.
 
 Please be assured that the Web Team did express  concern at the use of the images in the printed version when the  ban on online use was  imposed  and we would hope that a similar situation will not  arise in future.
 
 However, given the  range of  benefits available to e-subscription holders  at what is  a very modest cost, I would hope that members would not be re-considering their  membership in the light of three images missing from the online version of  one journal.
 
Title: Re: THE ROCK GARDEN-January 2017
Post by: ashley on January 30, 2017, 02:32:27 PM
Thanks Maggi :-*
I agree that electronic membership is wonderful overall and would be loth to go back to paper etc.. 
Indeed here's hoping that other clubs and societies follow the SRGC lead as soon as possible :)
Title: Re: THE ROCK GARDEN-January 2017
Post by: astragalus on January 30, 2017, 10:24:18 PM
My copy just arrived today, hoorah!
Looking forward to sitting down after dinner for a good read, while curled up in a favorite chair in front of the fire.
Title: Re: THE ROCK GARDEN-January 2017
Post by: fermi de Sousa on January 31, 2017, 01:44:36 AM
Being very "last century" I prefer the hard-copy of the journals of SRGC, AGS and NARGS! However I do have just the e-membership to SIGNA which is adequate for me.
I do appreciate being able to persue the electronic version of the RGQ (Rock Garden Quarterly) from NARGS (at no extra cost!) prior to getting the hard-copy because of the delay in receiving it here in the Antipodes!
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: THE ROCK GARDEN-January 2017
Post by: shelagh on January 31, 2017, 02:31:12 PM
Ditto Fermi and I really enjoyed Matt's article on Narcissus in Spain and also the History of the Edinburgh Show.  I have often thought I would like to see an article about the plants that won Forrest medals at the beginning. Tastes and fashions have changed so much in the last 20 years it would be nice to be a fly on the wall back at the start. (Any chance Anton?).
Title: Re: THE ROCK GARDEN-January 2017
Post by: Maggi Young on January 31, 2017, 03:01:08 PM
Quite an idea, Shelagh.

Having a seen lists of  Forrest Medal plants in the past - and I think that was in a previous journal - I do remember just how many plants winning in the "dim and distant" past were in fact plants which are still seen on the show benches today.  In the  archive of  journals  available in the main SRGC website, on the "Journal " page, ( click here (http://www.srgc.net/site/index.php/extensions/journal) ) it is possible to  search for such things in the Index and look up old show reports over the decades to see how things have  changed  in the way of showing - and judging- tastes.

 For instance : Tod, Dr. H. and Barnes, F. C. : George Forrest Medal Plants, 36/269; 52/220
Murray Lyon, Major General D.M.  - George Forrest Medal Plants, 16/257
Title: Re: THE ROCK GARDEN-January 2017
Post by: shelagh on January 31, 2017, 07:29:26 PM
Wow Messrs. Barnes and Tod certainly knew their stuff and quite a lot of those plants are still in the running for medals but some have either changed their names or disappeared because I didn't recognise quite a few names.
Title: Re: THE ROCK GARDEN-January 2017
Post by: Mini bulb lover on February 02, 2017, 10:44:00 AM

 However, given the  range of  benefits available to e-subscription holders  at what is  a very modest cost, I would hope that members would not be re-considering their  membership in the light of three images missing from the online version of  one journal.

Just to make myself clear from my earlier post about changing my mind about subscribing electronically, I meant that I would have gone with a regular subscription instead of electronic. My main reason for subscribing electronically is in reducing paper usage. The cost reduction is just an added benefit! And thank you to the Web Team for raising your concerns about this issue. Hopefully the posts here will back you up if the suggestion is made again for future journals.
Title: Re: THE ROCK GARDEN-January 2017
Post by: DaveM on February 05, 2017, 01:07:06 PM
Re list of Forrest medals, Maggi and Shelagh - Bob Maxwell used to keep a list. He sent me a copy in 2005, and I'm pretty sure this is as correct as it can be. I've not kept my copy up to date, but it shouldn't take me too long to do this up to end of last year. I could then make this available if you want. Perhaps it could be available for download on the web?
Title: Re: THE ROCK GARDEN-January 2017
Post by: Maggi Young on February 05, 2017, 04:08:54 PM
An excellent idea, David, thank you.  I think Bob's list idea sprang from the time I was working on a display for the late Harold Esslemont of his huge haul of medals and bars - since  outnumbered by Cyril's efforts, of course.
I remember Harold saying , in discussing some of his Forrest medal plants , "you know, it wouldn't even get a first these days" - but while  that  may have been true for some plants, there is no denying the skills of the man who could win 43 of those precious medals! Harold and Jack Crosland  were tremendous growers as well as great friends.  Both sorely missed.
Now Bob has left us too - sad to say - a man who won a good few medals himself with his fine plants.
Title: Re: THE ROCK GARDEN-January 2017
Post by: DaveM on February 17, 2017, 12:51:43 PM
I've just sent the updated list of Forrest medal winners to Maggi for uploading to the Club website. Just a taster:

Total medals awarded    492      
         
                           No   From   To
Dr Cyril Lafong           54   1995   2016
Mr Harold Esslemont   44   1956   1984
Mr J(Jack) Crosland   30   1961   1985
Mr Fred F Hunt           26   1982   2010
Mr Jack Drake           14   1948   1962
Mr Alexander J Leven   14   1986   2006
Mrs Christina Boyd-Harvey   11   1952   1970
Mr Eric Watson           10   1975   1995
Mr & Mrs J I Young   9   1992   2002
Mr J B Duff                   8   1966   1981
Mr & Mrs H Taylor   6   1978   2011
Mr A D Reid           6   1953   1973
Mrs S Maule           6   1964   1979
Dr Peter Semple           5   1979   2015

Of the rest, those still showing today         
Drs C & I Bainbridge   4      
Mr Geoffrey Rollinson   4      
Mrs Jean Wyllie           4      
Dr & Mrs R B Wallis   3      
Mr & Mrs V Chambers   3      
Mr Ian Kidman   3      
Mr Sam Sutherland   3      
Mrs Roma Fiddes   3      
Dr David Millward   2      
Dr Stan da Prato   2      
Mr & Mrs F Higgins   2      
Mr Alan R Furness   2      
Mr John Lee           2      
Mr Lionel Clarkson   2      
Mr & Mrs Alan Thomson   1      
Mr & Mrs David Shaw           1      
Mr & Mrs Ian McNaughton   1   plus professional medal   
Mr Alan Newton           1      
Mr Don Peace           1      
Mr George W Young   1      
Mr Harold McBride   1      
Mr Harvey C Shepherd   1      
Mr Tom Green           1      
Mr Tommy Anderson   1      

Most winning genera
Primula   48 times      
Androsace   31   A vandellii (syn imbricata)   19 times
Cassiope   23      
Cyclamen   37      
Daphne   22      
Dionysia   26      
Fritillaria   16      
Gentiana   16      
Pulsatilla   13   P vernalis   10
Rhododendron   22      
Saxifraga   16      
Trillium   14      

Title: Re: THE ROCK GARDEN-January 2017
Post by: DaveM on February 17, 2017, 01:07:21 PM
Maggi - I never met Harold Esslemont nor Jack Crosland. As you say, very sad about Bob Maxwell. He certainly knew how to grow some great plants. He won 4 Forrests, and was often in contention, particularly with frits and trilliums. At last year's Aberdeen show one of his two massive pots of Trillium was considered for the award.
Title: Re: THE ROCK GARDEN-January 2017
Post by: Maggi Young on February 17, 2017, 03:33:08 PM
I've just sent the updated list of Forrest medal winners to Maggi for uploading to the Club website. Just a taster:

Total medals awarded    492      
         
                           No   From   To
Dr Cyril Lafong           54   1995   2016
Mr Harold Esslemont   44   1956   1984
Mr J(Jack) Crosland   30   1961   1985
Mr Fred F Hunt           26   1982   2010
Mr Jack Drake           14   1948   1962
Mr Alexander J Leven   14   1986   2006
Mrs Christina Boyd-Harvey   11   1952   1970
Mr Eric Watson           10   1975   1995
Mr & Mrs J I Young   9   1992   2002
Mr J B Duff                   8   1966   1981
Mr & Mrs H Taylor   6   1978   2011
Mr A D Reid           6   1953   1973
Mrs S Maule           6   1964   1979
Dr Peter Semple           5   1979   2015

Of the rest, those still showing today         
Drs C & I Bainbridge   4      
Mr Geoffrey Rollinson   4      
Mrs Jean Wyllie           4      
Dr & Mrs R B Wallis   3      
Mr & Mrs V Chambers   3      
Mr Ian Kidman   3      
Mr Sam Sutherland   3      
Mrs Roma Fiddes   3      
Dr David Millward   2      
Dr Stan da Prato   2      
Mr & Mrs F Higgins   2      
Mr Alan R Furness   2      
Mr John Lee           2      
Mr Lionel Clarkson   2      
Mr & Mrs Alan Thomson   1      
Mr & Mrs David Shaw           1      
Mr & Mrs Ian McNaughton   1   plus professional medal   
Mr Alan Newton           1      
Mr Don Peace           1      
Mr George W Young   1      
Mr Harold McBride   1      
Mr Harvey C Shepherd   1      
Mr Tom Green           1      
Mr Tommy Anderson   1      

Most winning genera
Primula   48 times      
Androsace   31   A vandellii (syn imbricata)   19 times
Cassiope   23      
Cyclamen   37      
Daphne   22      
Dionysia   26      
Fritillaria   16      
Gentiana   16      
Pulsatilla   13   P vernalis   10
Rhododendron   22      
Saxifraga   16      
Trillium   14      

Dave Riley noticed that his win in 2013 was missing from the list -

As we can see from Sandy Leven's report (see it here  http://files.srgc.net/Showreports/BlackpoolForrest2013.pdf (http://files.srgc.net/Showreports/BlackpoolForrest2013.pdf) ).......

Cyclamen alpinum leucanthemum [*Cyclamen trochopteranthum forma leucanthum] shown by Dave Riley won the Forrest Medal at Blackpool in 2013.

Good luck to Dave Riley and all the other exhibitors  for the coming show season to  "bag" another  medal!
Title: Re: THE ROCK GARDEN-January 2017
Post by: ashley on February 17, 2017, 04:09:39 PM
A very impressive list, but why must we continue to anonymize married women so completely ???
Title: Re: THE ROCK GARDEN-January 2017
Post by: DaveM on February 17, 2017, 04:59:31 PM
No intention there Ashley. These have all been gleaned from the Show Reports and many given names are not included in earlier reports. I don't know many of the older ones so couldn't add to what's in Bob's list. If folk can supply correct given names I'll gladly correct the list next time around.

Apologies to Dave Riley. The show report doesn't mention your win and I clearly forgot to look for Sandy's web report (he also did the Journal report, in Jan 2014)
Title: Re: THE ROCK GARDEN-January 2017
Post by: ashley on February 17, 2017, 05:22:57 PM
I'm sure not Dave, and thanks for compiling the list. 
But the point is a serious one for those writing Show Reports
Even if made by a grumpy old git on a wet Friday afternoon ;D
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