Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: fermi de Sousa on January 07, 2017, 12:49:56 AM
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Allium flavum ssp tauricum is a good, small allium for summer colour, though it does better when it gets some water as it comes into flower.
these were grow from NARGS Seedex seed a number of years ago.
1) yellow flowered form in the rock garden with Habranthus;
2) peach coloured form in a pot;
The peach coloured ones were from seed donated by Louise Parsons - from a Mark McDonough selection!
cheers
fermi
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The first pic is potful of Allium saxatile which was in flower in the middle of December; we got them from Lesley Crowden at Kaydale when we visited in November.The next 2 pics are of the Allium saxatile clone we already had in our garden which only came into flower last week,
cheers
fermi
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First Allium of the season, Allium paradoxum var. normale also called April garlic
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Allium zebdanense
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Allium egorovae
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Allium zebdanense
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Allium pseudobodeanum
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Allium oreophilum ‘Kusavli Curl’
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i think this is Allium decipiens
medium drum stick
2-3 " flower, 20-24" tall,
narrow leaves in basal rosette and reddish stem
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Allium oreophilum ‘Kusavli Curl’
Good colour
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Allium umbelicatum
13 months from seed
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Allium anisopetalum
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Allium nevskianum
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Tristigama nivale
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Caloscordum (Allium) nerinifolium
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Allium dichlamydeum
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The first thing to do when a plant flowers for the first time is to look whether the Name is correct. Unfortunately this is not the case too often.
Can anyone determine this Allium? It lookes similar to Allium egerovae shown bei Rimmer below.
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Allium campanulatum a california allium growing in Michigan sand bed, seed started fall 2015 out side in sand bed
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Allium obliquum from NARGS seed 2010
Grows like a corn stalk
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Allium heldreichii from Greece
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Allium chloroanthum tall form
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unknown Allium, perhaps Allium pallasii ?
Seed start 2014
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The first thing to do when a plant flowers for the first time is to look whether the Name is correct. Unfortunately this is not the case too often.
Can anyone determine this Allium? It lookes similar to Allium egerovae shown bei Rimmer below.
Hard to tell, the plant might be in an immature first-flowering state, where one does not experience to true shape of the inflorescence. Always helps to see the foliage and whole plant views too, for potential ID.
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Allium lemonii a california allium growing in Michigan sand bed, seed started fall 2015 out side in sand bed
Not Allium lemmonii (note spelling), looks like campanulatum, always has that "halo" coloration in the center of the flowers, and low stems.
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Allium chloroanthum tall form
seed ex Ruksans
Don't think this is chloranthum (note spelling), looks more like a form of Allium flavum or flavum var. tauricum (or hybrid of those). Allium chloranthum is also yellow, usually a light yellow to greenish yellow, longer pedicels, and narrowly campanulate flowers. The stocky very silvered stems point to a flavum var tauricum plant.
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Allium scabriscapum
seed from Alan Edwards
start 2014
Note sure what you have here, but Allium scabriscapum is a very nice yellow-flowered species from Turkey, has full spherical heads of yellow. Here's a couple links:
http://allium.wdfiles.com/local--files/allium-s/Allium%20scabriscapum.jpg (http://allium.wdfiles.com/local--files/allium-s/Allium%20scabriscapum.jpg)
http://www.rareplants.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Allium-scabriscapum-comp.jpg (http://www.rareplants.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Allium-scabriscapum-comp.jpg)
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Not Allium lemmonii (note spelling), looks like campanulatum, always has that "halo" coloration in the center of the flowers, and low stems.
I agree with Mark 100%.
In the wild the foliage of Allium campanulatum is generally withered at flowering time, however this is not always the case in cultivation. Plants in our Sacramento garden tend to retain their foliage while the plants are flowering. They still seem to prefer a dry rest during the summer. The flowers can be very pale in the wild, however good selections can be made that have flowers that are a deeper pink and look very nice (even in warm weather).
With a bit of practice the California Allium species can be keyed using the Jepson online manual. Occasionally unlikely hybrids occur in the wild. My experience has been that they are sterile, but then unexpected things happen all of the time.
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Thanks Mark
i first asked for identity of the "Lemmonii" on this forum, but received no reply and and then found a similar planting elsewhere in the garden and guessed, badly. L campanulatum is a possibility as i have tried seeds labelled as L. campanulatum many times never to get any results in our frozen winters.
The"chloranthum" is a very nice green yellow species. i have 2 forms, one from PC that is about 4-6 inches shorter than the one from Ruksans about 18-20" tall.
This clump was grown from seed from the Ruksans form, the PC form has not made seeds for me.
these plants bloom here several weeks before Allium flavum.
Also this plant is about 4-6" taller than Allium flavum.
The Allium scabriscapum ? showed up in front of a seedling label as from Alan Edwards in a garden seed bed. this area had many allium seed plantings that did nothing and many labels were removed after several years of nothing, this year this bloomed with the corresponding label but a good rain can relocate surface sown seeds easily. it is a smaller dainty plant with a ~ 8" tall wirey glaucous stem.
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Thanks Mark
The"chloranthum" is a very nice green yellow species. i have 2 forms, one from PC that is about 4-6 inches shorter than the one from Ruksans about 18-20" tall.
This clump was grown from seed from the Ruksans form, the PC form has not made seeds for me.
these plants bloom here several weeks before Allium flavum.
Also this plant is about 4-6" taller than Allium flavum.
Allium flavum is highly variable in stature, to dwarf forms as I'm sure you're aware, to low growing forms 6-8" tall, moderate growing forms up to 12-16", and very tall forms up to nearly 2'. Accordingly, saying a plant is 4-6" taller than Allium flavum doesn't make much sense to me. I recommend checking keys and original botanical descriptions to verify whether you're growing chloranthum or a flavum form, the plant shown looks like a flavum form. I can post two photos of chloranthum that was sent to me by Arnis Seisums (approx. 13-14 years ago).
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I am sure your are correct.
For me flavum flower buds has always emerged odley feom the leaves at strange angles
This one grows in a more onion normal way straight up
Allium flavum is highly variable in stature, to dwarf forms as I'm sure you're aware, to low growing forms 6-8" tall, moderate growing forms up to 12-16", and very tall forms up to nearly 2'. Accordingly, saying a plant is 4-6" taller than Allium flavum doesn't make much sense to me. I recommend checking keys and original botanical descriptions to verify whether you're growing chloranthum or a flavum form, the plant shown looks like a flavum form. I can post two photos of chloranthum that was sent to me by Arnis Seisums (approx. 13-14 years ago).
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Here is the seed patch miss labelled as
A lemmonii. Allium campanulatum
These are a bit paler than the miss identified seedling but shaded by a peony.
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Allium amplectens (seed came as sometimes else)
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Perhaps Allium pallasii from PC
12" tall
Flower head 0.5-1" diameter
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Allium "chloranthum" from PC
12" tall
Probably an early flavum
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I sometimes find the un opened flower buds most interesting
Pics About as close as i can do with my iPhone
Unknown blue weedy allium
Purple probably seedling from A. rotundum KV461
Narrow one came as A caesium
Yellow A obliquum
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Allium siculum starts flowering:
[attach=1]
CU
Hannelore
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Allium acuminatum with A campanulatum in back
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I can post two photos of chloranthum that was sent to me by Arnis Seisums (approx. 13-14 years ago).
Please post these photos
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One of my mostly loved Alliums is Allium brachyscapum growing wild in Kopet-Dag, on both sides of border with Turkmenistan. I collected it in 1980, near Arvaz, Turkmenistan and regardless of growing wild on nude, sunbaked slopes, formed by small stone-chips, it turned excellent grower even in outside garden and well multiplied by bulb splitting (usiually in two), but I never got any seed. Most likely the weather at blooming time is too cool. I lost it for my own fault some 20 years later and was very happy to seeing it in Iran, in spring 2016. Now may be in greenhouse it will set some seed, although weather is extremely cold this spring.
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Allium bolanderi allowed to flop badly :-[
A. caeruleum
A. falcatum
A. pallasii
A. peninsulare
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Allium sabulosum
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Hello Aleksandr, good to see you posting here!
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Hi Magg, thanks for kind words.
Some Allium in my garden today
Allium carinatum ssp pulchellum
Allium margaritae
Allium sp
Allium carinatum
Allium nutans
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Allium karelinii, native in Central Asia, is close to Allium schoenoprasum (chives)
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Allium petraeum
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Welcome from me too Aleksandr :)
I'm growing several of your collections (via Kurt Vickery), including A. pallasii above.
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Thank you Ashley! I am glad to know that there is Allium pallasii in Ireland too. :)
At present I have also white blooming from from Kazakhstan
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Spotted on Facebook from Panayoti Kelaidis to Mark McDonough ....
Panayoti Kelaidis
"I can't believe I'm the first to post congratulations on your FB wall for Allium 'Millennium" which I've always considered one of the all time greatest alliums. The Perennial Plant Association has voted this 2018 Plant of the Year! You have given gardens (and nurserymen) a great gift in this stellar plant (which is blooming its head off at DBG where this picture was taken a few years ago). Mine at home looks pretty good as well: we thank you!"
[attachimg=1]
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Allium chamaemoly is absolutely tiny and I must try it in a trough :D
cheers
fermi
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Can anyone identify this allium for me please? 25-30 cm tall & just starting to flower now.
My guess is Allium senescens ssp. montanum var. glaucum but would welcome an expert opinion :-\
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Something new to me.
Black aphids on an Allium
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Something new to me.
Black aphids on an Allium
Mercy! They'll eat anything!
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Something new to me.
Black aphids on an Allium
Hi Arnold,
check out: Neotoxoptera formosana - they can decimate onion crops as well as ornamentals.
A word of warning garlic spray doesn't affect them! ::)
cheers
fermi
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Can anyone identify this allium for me please? 25-30 cm tall & just starting to flower now.
My guess is Allium senescens ssp. montanum var. glaucum but would welcome an expert opinion :-\
I'm not an expert but I would say same as you. Nevertheless, I would spell it Allium lusitanicum (better if you want to write it on a label ;D)
If you want more details about the senescens-lusitanicum complex : https://www.zobodat.at/stable/pdf/LBB_0030_2_0815-0830.pdf (https://www.zobodat.at/stable/pdf/LBB_0030_2_0815-0830.pdf)
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Fermi:
thanks, I'll look into it.
Interesting it's the first time they appeared.
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the delightful allium callimischon subsp haemostictum, mother nature was pretty good at drawing shapes.
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the delightful allium callimischon subsp haemostictum, mother nature was pretty good at drawing shapes.
An excellent example of how a photo can draw attention to the exquisite detail in diminutive flowers that might otherwise go un-noticed and under-appreciated.
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........ and a very good photo too.
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I hope I've correctly identified this allium I saw in July in Sikkim. Damp forest, around 3400m. Allium prattii? I loved the color.
...Claire
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[attachimg=3]
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I posted a pic of Watsonia socium and this Allium ampeloprasum (Ampeloprasum Group) ‘Elephant Garlic’ on the South African Bulb Thread.
Here's a clearer pic of the Allium - definitely not one for the rock garden!
cheers
fermi
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I hope I've correctly identified this allium I saw in July in Sikkim. Damp forest, around 3400m. Allium prattii? I loved the color.
...Claire
Allium prattii and ovalifolium are very closely related, mostly separated by aspects of the foliage. Allium prattii leaves gradually narrow towards the base (described as an "obscure petiole"), whereas in ovalifolium the leaves narrow to a distinct petiole at the base (1 - 12 cm long). The leaf tips in prattii are a gradual acuminate point, whereas with cordifolium they can be acuminate to caudate (more abruptly narrowed to a point). Allium ovalifolium has three varieties, var. ovalifolium (leaf base rounded to mildly cordate), var. cordifolium (leaf base deeply cordate [think: rounded lobes extending beyond the petiole attachment]), and var. leuconeuron (leaves have white color main veins).
I have noticed in Allium prattii, it too shows a central leaf vein that can be whitish in color. So, what about the plants you picture here, frankly hard to discern because I can't see the leaf base terminations. I do see a white color central leaf vein in your photos. So, from the photos I cannot tell if it is cordifolium or prattii, but it will be one of those two.
Flora of China has three photos of Allium prattii, here's one that looks most like prattii that I have grown, with rather narrow tapered leaves.
http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=87653&flora_id=800 (http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=87653&flora_id=800). I will post again here, to show a photo of ovalifolium and prattii that I got from Chen Yi many years ago (both came misnamed ;) ).
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Can anyone identify this allium for me please? 25-30 cm tall & just starting to flower now.
My guess is Allium senescens ssp. montanum var. glaucum but would welcome an expert opinion :-\
I'm late responding here, and you've already been given a possible ID from Karaba (as Allium lusitanicum, with which I concur).
Regarding the Allium name of "glaucum", it is mired in confusion. It was published as a species in 1810, then elevated to a subspecies of Allium senescens in 1987 by Dr. Nikolai Friesen. That publication was done in Russian cyrillic, so the knowledge of true Allium senescens ssp. glaucum has remained little known even to today.
More recently, photos of the true plant were posted to the excellent Plantarium.ru site (think: online Flora of Russia, Russia in the older sense that includes such countries as Kazakhstan). The true Allium senescens ssp. glaucum is a tallish upright plant, with very narrow upright silver-gray leaves, and fully spherical heads of open bloom, a lilac purplish color, flowering in early August.
The true plant has nothing to do with what we must call "Allium senescens glaucum of Hort", that familiar and popular late summer-autumn blooming plant with low mounds of spiraling leaves and tight hemispheres of pink flowers. I re-found some old correspondence with Dr. Friesen, where I asked him what he thinks of Allium "glaucum" of Hort. He suggested it most likely originated as hybrids between Asian forms of Allium senescens and a fairly recently published species, Allium austrosibiricum, which has low spiraling foliage and late flowering habit. I will post some links of true Allium senescens ssp. glaucum; I'm of the opinion the true subspecies is not in cultivation, and that the "glaucum of Hort" is a variable hybrid brew as it occurs in cultivation.
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I'm not an expert but I would say same as you. Nevertheless, I would spell it Allium lusitanicum (better if you want to write it on a label ;D)
If you want more details about the senescens-lusitanicum complex : https://www.zobodat.at/stable/pdf/LBB_0030_2_0815-0830.pdf (https://www.zobodat.at/stable/pdf/LBB_0030_2_0815-0830.pdf)
Thanks Yvain and Mark.
That paper gives A. senescens subsp. montanum as a synonym of A. lusitanicum but the description of the latter doesn't fit the common garden form very well (especially the leaves which are shorter, broader, glaucous & twisted; next year I'll check flower structure). Therefore it could well be a hybrid, as you suggest Mark.
For now I'll just relabel it 'A. senescens glaucum of Hort.' and move on ;) ;D
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That paper gives A. senescens subsp. montanum as a synonym of A. lusitanicum but the description of the latter doesn't fit the common garden form very well (especially the leaves which are shorter, broader, glaucous & twisted; next year I'll check flower structure). Therefore it could well be a hybrid, as you suggest Mark.
Perhaps this will help, I'm uploading a few screen shots from a Powerpoint presentation I gave at Denver Botanic Garden in October 2017, for a Steppes Symposium, my topic was on ornamental Allium from steppe regions in Asia and North American prairies. Specifically the slides I'm showing is a portion that addresses Allium senescens complex.
The informational slide talks about the 4 races of Allium senescens mentioned in Flora of Russia 1935, and what their equivalencies are now, then adding in the 5th & 6th entities, ssp. glaucum (true) and senescens glaucum of Hort.
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Larger images of true Allium senescens ssp. glaucum, from the Plantarium.ru (eFlora of Russia) site, with the identification of this subspecies indeed verified by the publishing author Dr. Nikolai Friesen. The last photo shows an partially translated excerpt on the subspecies publish (species description translated from Russian cyrillic to latin), sent to me by Dr. Friesen.
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Thanks, Mark, for the information on Allium prattii versus A. ovalifolium. Here is the best photo that shows the foliage of the allium I saw in Sikkim.
...Claire
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Perhaps this will help, I'm uploading a few screen shots from a Powerpoint presentation I gave at Denver Botanic Garden in October 2017, for a Steppes Symposium, my topic was on ornamental Allium from steppe regions in Asia and North American prairies. Specifically the slides I'm showing is a portion that addresses Allium senescens complex.
The informational slide talks about the 4 races of Allium senescens mentioned in Flora of Russia 1932, and what their equivalencies are now, then adding in the 5th & 6th entities, ssp. glaucum (true) and senescens glaucum of Hort.
Very interesting to see how distinct the true glaucum is Mark. Thank you.
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