Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: Rick Goodenough on December 17, 2016, 11:12:00 PM
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Has anyone seen a recent listing of spikeys or be willing to post such a list here? This is an April 2015 shot of one I grow, G. 'Windmill'.
Thanks in advance,
Rick
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Not a list of Spikeys, but two of the most amazing - 'The Alburgh Claw' and 'Boyd's Double' are listed and shown amongst these:
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=11041.msg287818#msg287818 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=11041.msg287818#msg287818)
Immediate thoughts are also 'Irish Green' and 'Jade Feather' but the brain is still waking up ;D
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Not a list of Spikeys, but two of the most amazing - 'The Alburgh Claw' and 'Boyd's Double' are listed and shown amongst these:
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=11041.msg287818#msg287818 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=11041.msg287818#msg287818)
Immediate thoughts are also 'Irish Green' and 'Jade Feather' but the brain is still waking up ;D
Many thanks Brian. Great to see the listing you compiled. What a collection that would make! I know spikeys are not appreciated by all, but I do think they have their place, if only as a curiosity. Not sure what I can contribute, but I am willing to help with compiling a known spikeys listing here if there is interest.
By the way, this most recognizable listing is an incredible photo resource for many of us who have not seen many of them except in the random photograph. Thank you again for your efforts.
Rick
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Quite agree with Rick about the usefulness of that thread - have set it "sticky" so it's easier to find.
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Many thanks Brian. Great to see the listing you compiled. What a collection that would make! I know spikeys are not appreciated by all, but I do think they have their place, if only as a curiosity. Not sure what I can contribute, but I am willing to help with compiling a known spikeys listing here if there is interest.
By the way, this most recognizable listing is an incredible photo resource for many of us who have not seen many of them except in the random photograph. Thank you again for your efforts.
Rick
Thanks Rick but it was a combined effort by many members, most of whom seem to have moved to FB ???
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Oh yes, a spikies list! I would love that.
There's Fuzz, Luke, Anglesey's double spiky,Cockatoo, Ermine Spiky, Windmill, Raggamuffin
And fb is great
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Thank you Loes for getting us moving on it. Before we get too far out of the gate, it will be helpful for some consensus on what is in and what can be included and what should not be included on this list.
One of the challenges in putting a spikey list together is the definition of spikey doubles. Here is a snippet of what the John Grimshaw, Matt Bishop and Aaron Davis Snowdrops book says on keying them out from the more typical normal doubles. P.120 section F. Abnormal Doubles is broken into two sub categories, F1., those that are Intermediate doubles such as G. nivalis ‘Blewbury Tart’ and F2., Spikey doubles such as G. nivalis ‘Irish Green’. “The majority of plants in the intermediate division (F1) are constant, while the majority of spikey doubles (F2) are not; exceptions are indicated where relevant.”
There are other clarifying comments in this and in another section of the book, so please reference that if you can. Because these categories are both considered Abnormal doubles, does it make sense to compile a combined listing, or would the preference be to only list the spikey doubles (F2) here? It is interesting to note that G. nivalis 'Walrus' is in the category of normal double so would not be included in either of these abnormal sections. This might be fun.
Comments please.
Rick
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Thanks Rick but it was a combined effort by many members, most of whom seem to have moved to FB ???
Brian, thanks for clarifying and I had read your many attributions to so many others within the string. Nicely done. Regarding Face Book, I am laughing as there are pros and cons for participating in both, but clearly each currently has some features the other lacks. Searching in Facebook is quite difficult if one goes back over a few weeks, but specific document can be placed in the "Files" folder for easy reference. This Forum format lends itself to cumulative knowledge. In contrast, Face Book seems to be rather focused on the here and now and the flash of a photo which quickly disappears behind new posts.
Relative ease of posting photos on Face Book is a huge draw in that it requires no re-sizing. Conversely, the Forum format requires re-sizing and one must take a few extra minutes in order to post a photo. Face Book is good for both experienced galanthophiles as well as newbies with the experience levels often at a less experienced level on Face Book. This is perfect for America as there are relatively few experienced galanthofiles here. The Forum platform seems to cater to users who are further seasoned in the science and art of the sport. Certainly not universal truth, but just my personal take in experiencing both formats.
So I do not see it as either/or, but for me to happily move from one to the other is to experience a wider range of information to see photos of these fine plants.
Rick
Rick
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Immature doubles often appear spikey, or more spikey than their mature form. So if you see something that you think might have the makings of a spikey double it's particularly important to observe it for a few years.
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Brian, thanks for clarifying and I had read your many attributions to so many others within the string. Nicely done. Regarding Face Book, I am laughing as there are pros and cons for participating in both, but clearly each currently has some features the other lacks. Searching in Facebook is quite difficult if one goes back over a few weeks, but specific document can be placed in the "Files" folder for easy reference. This Forum format lends itself to cumulative knowledge. In contrast, Face Book seems to be rather focused on the here and now and the flash of a photo which quickly disappears behind new posts.
Relative ease of posting photos on Face Book is a huge draw in that it requires no re-sizing. Conversely, the Forum format requires re-sizing and one must take a few extra minutes in order to post a photo. Face Book is good for both experienced galanthophiles as well as newbies with the experience levels often at a less experienced level on Face Book. This is perfect for America as there are relatively few experienced galanthofiles here. The Forum platform seems to cater to users who are further seasoned in the science and art of the sport. Certainly not universal truth, but just my personal take in experiencing both formats.
So I do not see it as either/or, but for me to happily move from one to the other is to experience a wider range of information to see photos of these fine plants.
Rick
Rick
I see your point Rick, I would hope that others would also take your point and post in both too... or perhaps they do? I understand that the big drawback of FB is the ability to search which is so useful on Scottish Rock, especially when an unknown name appears and you want to see what it is really like.
Others to add to F2 'Frank Turner', 'Ragamuffin' and (I think?) 'The Bogeyman'
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Thank you, Brian. Not sure that most folks post in both, in fact, I think it is too often either/or. I can attest to your point on finding esoteric plants, that this forum is the only place to go and I hope it will not be diminished over time due to FB only posts.
Rick
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Rick, folks like yourself are in the minority for posting in both places - your dedication is noted and MUCH appreciated.
There is emphasis placed on SRGC being present in the various social media - on the grounds that this is "modern" or "more likely to appeal to younger people" and I certainly devote plenty time to attempting to achieve that on Facebook and Twitter for the Club - but I am not at all convinced of the true value. Yes, picture sharing is simple, yes, it's all easy from your smart phone ( or so I'm told!!) but what we have here in the forum is something that is open to all, building, along with our website, a wonderful resource and archive of information. Too often, even on FB where longer texts are possible, any really useful info just disappears into a closed group. Even in a public group, info is terribly hard to find, even after only an hour or so, let alone years. The information gathered here in the forum on any number of subjects, is immense - and worth the existence of this place, even without considering the meeting place for plant lovers that it has provided all these years. What the future holds is a mystery to us all but at least the likes of you and others have made a lasting contribution here to plant knowledge and the exchange of experience.
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OK folks, here is an initial listing of the (F2) Spikey Doubles. Please know that each entry has not been verified or corroborated and that is why we are calling it a working list until we reach some consensus. Likely none of us have experience growing all of these and so we need to gather your input as to whether any or all should be included on this listing. Also, please comment on other spikeys not on this initial list so that we can round it out in the coming weeks. Is anyone aware of a spikey double specialist who could give considerably more guidance on this topic than I am able to provide?
The purpose is to:
identify named spikey doubles (F2) in existence
help to confirm those on the list are in fact in the correct (F2) category
create a resource for access to all interested
Initial Working List of Proposed Category F2 Spikeys as of December 19, 2016 (as updated December 20, 2016)
Scottish Rock Garden Club
‘Alburgh Claw’
‘Anglesey's Double Spikey’ – is this the actual name? (December 19, 2016 confirmed by Brian Ellis as correct based on his records)
‘Boyd’s Double’
‘Broske’
‘Bunch’
‘Cockatoo’
‘Ermine Oddity’ – is this the actual name? Does it exist?
‘Ermine Spikey’
'Frank Turner'
‘Fuzz’
‘Hedgehog’
‘Irish Green’
‘Jade Feather’
‘Looking Around’
‘Lovely Rika’
‘Luke’
‘Narwhal’
‘Ragamuffin’
'Samantha' (added December 19, 2016 by Emma Thick)
‘Spanish Swan’
'The Bogeyman'
'Tinus'
‘Tutu’
‘Windmill’
‘Woozle’
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Rick, folks like yourself are in the minority for posting in both places - your dedication is noted and MUCH appreciated.
There is emphasis placed on SRGC being present in the various social media - on the grounds that this is "modern" or "more likely to appeal to younger people" and I certainly devote plenty time to attempting to achieve that on Facebook and Twitter for the Club - but I am not at all convinced of the true value. Yes, picture sharing is simple, yes, it's all easy from your smart phone ( or so I'm told!!) but what we have here in the forum is something that is open to all, building, along with our website, a wonderful resource and archive of information. Too often, even on FB where longer texts are possible, any really useful info just disappears into a closed group. Even in a public group, info is terribly hard to find, even after only an hour or so, let alone years. The information gathered here in the forum on any number of subjects, is immense - and worth the existence of this place, even without considering the meeting place for plant lovers that it has provided all these years. What the future holds is a mystery to us all but at least the likes of you and others have made a lasting contribution here to plant knowledge and the exchange of experience.
Thank you, Maggi and the points you and Brian raise on the encyclopedic resource nature of this forum is accurate and it is truly an invaluable tool. SnapApp is the new Face Book for much of the younger crowd and it has even less capacity for data storage/retrieval, in fact the photos/data vanishes intentionally within a minute or so. So people will always need a repository for useful research. Do you happen to know if the developer of the netware that this forum runs on is making further developments to this platform? I hope so, as it would be a shame for certain functionality limitations to reduce participation due to the technology alone.
Please let me add my thanks to you for your tireless and likely too often unappreciated efforts in managing this forum. It is a pleasure indeed to participate.
Rick
edit by maggi : thanks Rick - yes we hope and expect that SMF will continue to make improvements that we can use in this forum.
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‘Anglesey's Double Spikey’ – is this the actual name?
That's what I have it as. I'm sure it's right.
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That's what I have it as. I'm sure it's right.
Excellent...thank you. I will update list. Rick
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You can add Samantha to yor list
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Samantha
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Samantha
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You can add Samantha to your list
I will load it in now! Thank you very much...great to see the pics of this one as I am not familiar with it. Looks to be nearly all white.
Rick
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Immature doubles often appear spikey, or more spikey than their mature form. So if you see something that you think might have the makings of a spikey double it's particularly important to observe it for a few years.
Alan, I missed this earlier today. Great point for all of us who may happen onto such a find. Thank you.
Rick
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Also 'Mrs Tiggywinkle'
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I was unsure whether 'Bagpuize Virginia' fitted into this category, in my head it is not spiky so I googled it and certainly the photographs seem to suggest it does not fit into F2.
I was interested to see 'Samantha' Emma, I still have the label.... ??? Is Davey still about?
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I was unsure whether 'Bagpuize Virginia' fitted into this category, in my head it is not spiky so I googled it and certainly the photographs seem to suggest it does not fit into F2.
I was interested to see 'Samantha' Emma, I still have the label.... ??? Is Davey still about?
Thank you, Brian. I will remove 'Bagpuize Virginia' and add 'Davey' as a placeholder until we learn more about its existence. And I have intentionally left off 'Mrs Tiggywinkle' as it has been determined to be included in the F1.category of "Intermediate Doubles" within the Monograph which on P. 120 defines F1 as "constant" as opposed to the F2 which "are not". I sense the need to get further elaboration on that distinction though context would suggest the flowers on immature F1 are essentially the same as appears on mature plants and the F2s have more variability in morphology as they move from immature to mature. I would welcome more education on the distinction.
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I will remove 'Bagpuize Virginia' and add 'Davey' as a placeholder until we learn more about its existence.
Sorry to confuse you Rick, Davey was a forum member who named 'Samantha' so better remove his name from the list!
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Sorry to confuse you Rick, Davey was a forum member who named 'Samantha' so better remove his name from the list!
Laughing now. Brian, that is a good joke on me. Will remove...so sorry Davey, no Spikey by your name just yet! Rick
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Anyone have thoughts on 'Funny Justine' as a spikey or not?
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Definitely not ;)
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...Davey was a forum member who named 'Samantha' ....
... Is Davey still about?
Davey was (I presume) forum member 'Daveyp1970'. He was both a keen snowdrop collector and a snowdrop hunter who distributed several that he found himself. There was one (informally) called 'Davey's Nice' that got spread around a bit. I met him to speak to for the first and last time at the Harvey's Sale in 2014. But, apparently, later that year he moved to a flat so had to give-away his snowdrop collection. We swapped snowdrops at that meeting but I subsequently lost two that he gave me, including 'Darlton Early', which I would very much like for my Early Snowdrop collection. If anyone still has that, please let me know. None of the ones I had from him were spikeys, Rick.
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I was unsure whether 'Bagpuize Virginia' fitted into this category, in my head it is not spiky so I googled it and certainly the photographs seem to suggest it does not fit into F2.
I was interested to see 'Samantha' Emma, I still have the label.... ??? Is Davey still about?
Haven't heard from him for years :(
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He was last active on the Forum on 2 April 2014, rather a pity he was always very interesting. Maybe he's gone to Facetwit?
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I am sometimes told I speak too quietly. Now it seems I need to write more loudly also.
Davey .. moved to a flat so had to give-away his snowdrop collection.
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I am sometimes told I speak too quietly. Now it seems I need to write more loudly also.
Not at all, we heard you, but you didn't answer the question that David posed
Maybe he's gone to Facetwit?
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No he's not very active there either .
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Well that is a loss to galantholand :-\
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Not at all, we heard you, but you didn't answer the question that David posed
Well I'm normally a very quiet person really :P
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I have tried to keep in touch with Davey - to no avail.
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I see you’ve got a couple of Ermines on the list… Should ‘Ermine Shuttlecock’ be included?
Did Hector Harrison ever produce a catalogue??
Tim DH
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I see you’ve got a couple of Ermines on the list… Should ‘Ermine Shuttlecock’ be included?
Did Hector Harrison ever produce a catalogue??
Tim DH
Not one I know Tim, but Matt has it in the F1 category of intermediate doubles with 'Mrs Tiggeywinkle' et al
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I don't recall ever hearing of Hector Harrison, although I see he spoke at the Galanthus Gala in 1999 on 'Raising New Snowdrops'. I have learned that he died in 2002 as I found a brief obituary https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/uk.rec.gardening/vHYiqU8mk7U
Is there somewhere I can read more about him?
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All the Ermine series and, of course, 'Appleby' were selected by him. He was also an expert on Diascia but strangely I can only find references to the various snowdrop books by Googling.
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I cannot find much information online about Hector Harrison, Perhaps this is the influence of the internet but it makes me sad to find that a pioneering breeder of diascias who also contributed a number of named snowdrops is so sparsely documented. I found this quote on the forum
The Galanthus Appleby stable name indicates it was raised/selected and named from the garden of the late Hector Harrison who lived in the village of Appleby, North Lincolnshire not far from Scunthorpe. Hector was a quiet, modest unassuming gentleman with a midas touch for snowdrops and Diascia. Our nursery did distribute a number of Hectors snowdrops in the 1990's and we are delighted to read that some are persisting.
I discovered one article about Hector Harrison in Lincolnshire Life (vol 40 no 10 Jan 2001 p30) but that magazine is too old to be available online so I have no knowledge of the content.
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That obituary note is by our own SRGC Membership secretary, ChrisB - I'm sure she would not mind us copying her note here :
Chris Boulby
24/02/2002
I'm so sorry I cannot give the time to post to the group much any more,
but I felt I must let fellow gardeners know of the loss of Hector
Harrison.
I learned yesterday that my dear friend and mentor during the early days
for diascias, has died. Hector single-handedly drew attention to the
plants I love so dearly in the late 1980's and began breeding them.
He had been doing so for at least seven years before I began my
collection, and his love for this species continued until his passing.
Most of the cultivars now found in the Plantfinder are due to or
inspired by Hector's work - if you have ever grown D. 'Redstart', D.
'Jacqueline's Joy', D. 'Appleby Apricot', D. 'Salmon Supreme', then you
have enjoyed Hector's work.
He was also a lover of snowdrops and bred a number of cultivars.
He will be sadly missed.
Christine Boulby National Collection of Diascia
Northumberland
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It has niggled me somewhat that there is so little to find about Hector Drury Harrison and then I noticed that I had referenced the Daffodils snowdrops and tulips Yearbook 2005-2006 where Ruby Baker wrote an appreciation.
She lists his Galanthus nivalis 'Windmill', 'Ermine Spikey', 'Ermine Oddity'. 'Suttlecock', 'Ermine B', 'Ermine C', 'Ermine Street', 'Appleby', 'Cassaba' (no longer valid), and from his cross of Heyrick Greatorex's 'Nerissa' aand G.elwesii: 'Ermine Lace', 'Ermine Farm', 'Ermine Joyce', 'Ermine House', 'Ermine Ad Astra' 'Ermine Ruby' and 'Ermine Green'. Some of these are no longer extant.
'Ermine Ruby' is a four petaled G.nivalis named for Ruby Baker, I would love to track this one down, 'Ermine Joyce' named for his wife and he lived on Ermine Street and worked at Ermine House.
What a magnificent fund of knowledge Ruby had, I hope that helps you Alan :D
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I think I read an article on his work on diascias ? in the RHS magazine, ? the Hardy Plant Society yearbook - I'll try and hunt it out.
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... I hope that helps you Alan :D
Thank you, Brian, much appreciated. I took my copy of that Yearbook off the shelf and read the article immediately. It is great little tribute by Ruby Baker - with a photograph of the man himself.