Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: Tristan_He on September 22, 2016, 09:23:59 PM
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I have watered today all my winter growing bulbs with this 0,1 % solution :
Acis ,Sternbergia ,Scilla ,Galanthus and many of my South african bulbs ( exept the summer growing )
For watering I have used rain water ....the rain water here is not acid ...it is more or less neutral ( ph 6,5 - 7,5)
so I have add vinegar essence ( 25% ) ...so I have now 6,0 - 6,5 PH
In case I have not enough rain water I must use domestic tap water ...it has also around 7,0 PH ...but total hardness of 10 ° :-\
Best wishes
Hans
Hans, what's the thinking behind the vinegar?
Best, Tristan
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Tristan ,
It is simply ...I had it here at home :)
It is cheap and easy available
In meantime I have now bought a bottle of sulfuric acid ( 37%)
...now I must make some tests to reach the right ph ...
Hans
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No, I mean why are you acidifying the solution?
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Tristan ,
I'm acidifying General my water if I watering my bulbplants + cacti
For watering I have used rain water ....the rain water here is not acid ...it is more or less neutral ( ph 6,5 - 7,5)
In case I have not enough rain water I must use domestic tap water ...it has also around 7,0 PH ...but total hardness of 10 °
I would suggest all to test the water !
Hans
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Hello Hans,
this is a misunderstanding. You do not remove Calcium by adding any acid, be it vinegar or sulfuric. You just keep the calcium in better solution. If you want to remove calcium, you have to use a Brita filter or something equivalent. The pH-Value doesn't say anything about the ingredients, it is showing only the more acidic or basic reaction of a liquid. And sulfuric acid is toxic and destroys the necessary soil bacteria as well.
You need a mixture like tap water plus lemon juice (or vinegar) for citrus plants, because they need calcium in an acidic surrounding - that is called the Mainau trick.
If you want to fertilize with sulfur, it is much better to take elemental sulfur which is not water soluble but has to be prepared by soil organisms. They do it just in the pH-range necessary for plants. The University of Applied Sciences Weihenstephan has made research on this and found out, that providing with elemental sulfur (Schwefelbüte) is essential for non-peat substrates.
Best wishes
Hannelore
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Hello Hannelore ,
Sorry for delay with answering ..
But I need first the agreement of a cacti friend to show here pictures of his collection ...
As we say „„One Picture is Worth A Thousand Words “( OK - in this case 3 pics )
My friend watered his plants only with domestic tap water - acidified with sulfuric acid ( 37%) - so he has a PH value of 5,5- 6,0
These plants on the pics looks really healty ...no sign of illness ( since many years )
There is sometimes a big difference between theory and practice 8)
Hans
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more :
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last :
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Hello Hans,
didn't you read what I wrote? The pH-value doesn't say anything about the ingredients. In order to compare you'd need the complete analysis of his tap water. It is different from town to town and sometimes even from one part of a town to another.
Neither does the total hardiness value say anything. How much of it is calcium? How much magnesium?
It is no problem to accept that this works in the surrounding of your friend and with his plants, but you can't transfer it without knowing the real circumstances. Three pictures without reporting of exact values don't change the science of chemistry. 8)
Greetings
Hannelore
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Hannelore ,
you wrote : "sulfuric acid is toxic and destroys the necessary soil bacteria as well "
that is's what I meant by the pictures :D
Hans
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Hi Hans,
Hannelore is right, the pH value says nothing about the total concentration of solutes. Having converted the units on your tapwater it looks as if you have some very hard tapwater so if you are worried about sensitivity of any of your plants to lime then you will have to treat it in some way. Different plants will react differently to this - some may not like the high concentrations of minerals (not just Ca), whilst others may be fine with acid treatment, as per your friend's cactus collection.
Regardless, you do not need to acidify your rainwater unless it has been exposed in some way to lime-rich material (for example a concrete gutter or green roof with lime-rich rubble). If you have a normal roof, then harvested rain is very soft (almost pure water), which normally has a pH of between 6.5 and 7.0 and is fine to use with any plant (I use this for my Sarracenias for example). You will find it difficult to measure the pH of pure water accurately with domestic measuring kit, but adding acid to reduce the pH could be quite risky because pure water is poorly buffered and you may therefore inadvertently water with more acid solution than is good for the plants.
The most important thing for sensitive plants is that the water is soft, not that it is acid per se.
Best, Tristan
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Hi Tristan ,
sorry ...but I do not agree .
I have some friends which also make her rain water acidify with acid
Some of this people have nurseries - other are scientists who works with plants...so they are not all simple collectors ( like me )
The reason why the rain water is not always acid and soft are algaes which build lime ...after some days !!! ( so far I have understand )
My Cacti friend has promised me a paper from USA ( maybe from Cacti Society ? ) there is a reasearch paper about this process
I hope I will get this informations soon ....
Best wishes
Hans
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Hi Hans,
Well, algae can increase pH via photosynthesis - that is well known. But they can't increase the calcium concentration of the water if there is no calcium to start with. Moreover, algae can't grow unless there are nutrients and minerals in the water.
Rain water does pick up trace elements on it's way down, so it's never completely pure. But the alkalinity / hardness is very low compared to most surface waters and I have never found it to cause the slightest problem to any plant sensitive to lime. Fortunately we live in a soft water area, so I don't have to worry either way!
Anyway, I'd be interested to see what the paper has to say. Either way it sounds like we will have to agree to disagree. :)
Best,
Tristan
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Hi Tristan ,
good News - bad News
I have just received those both articles ( in german )
But I have not the permission to give it to other people - so I have to accept this wish
The orginal Research Work is printed in the Cactus and Succulent Journal ( US ) written by Burleigh,Roberts,Wagner
Best wishes
Hans
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making a new topic
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Many thanks Maggi :D
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Hans is this the article (http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/Cacti/Cactus%20and%20Alkalinity.pdf) (or something like it?)
Tristan
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Hi Tristan ,
yes - it seems to be the original article ( or a part )
I have only a german translatation from a german Cactus Group
Many thanks
Hans
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When I worked for the hort company we occassionally ran into a greenhouse operation that had alkaline water from a drilled well. The standard cure was a citric acid injector system, think they also had to tweak the recommended fertilisation rates or types commonly used. Vaguely recall the cause oftentimes was an underlying bed of pulverized seashells that could be some distance uphill and away from the shoreline.
john