Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: art600 on March 01, 2008, 04:42:29 PM
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My chance to start a new thread on the most popular genus.
Does my nivalis qualify as small? Wind blowing a gale and no sun, so photos may not be as sharp as usual.
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Does my nivalis qualify as small?
It certainly does Arthur, what a sweetie :)
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And here is one from Ann's garden today, not at its best I'm afraid and the wind was blowing, but I managed to take it before the sleet. It's called Yashmak and I have rather fallen for it (tell me something new!) when I saw it before the 'eyes' were, I think, a little darker.
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It's called Yashmak and I have rather fallen for it
Brian
thanks for posting the picture - I can see why it has been given the name 'Yashmak'.
And, guess what?..... I have fallen for it too!
cheers
John
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Now why doesn't that surprise me John?
;D ;D ;D
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Just to let other galanthophiles know, the postman has just delivered my order from The Snowdrop Company, so keep an eye out. What joy! :D
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And here is one from Ann's garden today, not at its best I'm afraid and the wind was blowing, but I managed to take it before the sleet. It's called Yashmak and I have rather fallen for it (tell me something new!) when I saw it before the 'eyes' were, I think, a little darker.
That's different. Different is good. :)
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Just to let other galanthophiles know, the postman has just delivered my order from The Snowdrop Company, so keep an eye out. What joy! :D
My order has just arrived too. A couple are not up to their usual very high standard - I do hope it is just a one off lapse....
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Was looking for details of the Snowdrops book on AbeBooks and found this title
Snowdrops from a Curates Garden
Aleister Crowley
Bookseller: Caduceus Books
(LE10 2RL, LEI, United Kingdom)
Bookseller Rating:
Price: £ 50.00
[Convert Currency]
Quantity: 1 Shipping within United Kingdom:
£ 3.35
Thought it must be referring to the Rev Blakeway-Phillips, but no...
Erotic novel written by Crowley to amuse his wife. His purpose was to write the most ridiculously extreme sexual fantasy ever composed. The book was first privately and anonymously printed in 1904 in an edition of 100 copies, most of which were destroyed about 1926 by H. M. Customs.
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Just to let other galanthophiles know, the postman has just delivered my order from The Snowdrop Company, so keep an eye out. What joy! :D
My postman's been - and no snowdrops from Ron! Boo Hoo! :'( Unless they come in a van as a package later :D
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Was looking for details of the Snowdrops book on AbeBooks and found this title
Snowdrops from a Curates Garden
Aleister Crowley
Erotic novel written by Crowley to amuse his wife. His purpose was to write the most ridiculously extreme sexual fantasy ever composed. The book was first privately and anonymously printed in 1904 in an edition of 100 copies, most of which were destroyed about 1926 by H. M. Customs.
Wasn't Crowley reputed to be into satanism?
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Hi Martin
mine arrived in a van, that came 2 hours later than the postman on foot.
regards
John
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Wasn't Crowley reputed to be into satanism?
[/quote]
Martin
Not a nice man at all. Wonder what the link to snowdrops was.....
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Wasn't Crowley reputed to be into satanism?
Martin
Not a nice man at all. Wonder what the link to snowdrops was.....
[/quote]
Probably going for humorous incongruity - a very romantically pristine, pure and innocent image (pure white snowdrops from the garden of a curate) probably of a type of book title common at the time for romantic writings, then used for the title of a book about sexual fantasies.
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mine arrived in a van, that came 2 hours later than the postman on foot.
Mine too. Only one bulb short of what I ordered. I won't say what I did or didn't get in case others did or didn't get what I did or didn't, if you see what I mean. :)
The leaves all look like they've been sprayed with fungicide as a preventative measure, so I'll be washing my hands after handling them, to make sure I'm not eating any carbendazim with my lunchtime sandwich.
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I won't say what I did or didn't get in case others did or didn't get what I did or didn't, if you see what I mean.
Quite so, Martin: there are things that you mean but might not know that you mean, then the things you don't mean but don't know that you don't mean, do'nt mean but think you do mean.......... yup, we're right with you on this one :-X ( Your middle name isn't Rumsfeld, is it?)
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The leaves all look like they've been sprayed with fungicide as a preventative measure
Yes I seem to remember this from last year too Martin, better safe than sorry ;). My bulbs were all A1 condition John, disappointing that yours were not up to his normal standard. :-\
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( Your middle name isn't Rumsfeld, is it?)
I don't know. Or maybe I just don't know that I know.
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Nothing for me either but I dont mind as I got plenty from other sources this year. I never heard from Foxgrove either
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Nothing for me either but I dont mind as I got plenty from other sources this year. I never heard from Foxgrove either
It'll probably arrive tomorrow. How's the back? You still laid up at home?
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yes still at home propped up with cushions and making good use of my laptop and wireless connection. Fly to Australis later for a free consultation with Fermi! I managed to go into the greenhouse today for some photos and also took some of the Narcissus on a display table at the front door
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Just to let you know my friend Heather tells me that they are packing North Green Snowdrops from the beginning of this week so they should be arriving soon too. I expect you'll both get them on the same day!
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I didnt order from North Green this year
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My bulbs from Ron were okay but, as every year, I really do wish it was possible to buy dormant bulbs from all the snowdrop suppliers in late Summer rather than in the green.
No matter how carefully they're packed (and Ron's packing is good) they really can't benefit from being lifted in leaf, completely bare-rooted and sent through the post. It's one thing to lift a couple of bulbs for a friend with some soil still on the roots, carefully wrapped in a plastic bag, and pop them in a jiffy bag for the post. But when you're packing large quantities for many orders, the roots of some are always going to get dried out, leaves squashed or bent, etc. You simply wouldn't treat any other bulbs that way. Can you imagine wanting to buy a lily and being told "I'll lift it in growth, bare-root it, wrap the roots in some moist (or possibly almost dry) moss, bend it to fit into a box and post it to you." ? Or an erythonium, a daff, etc?
A couple of the bulbs I got yesterday were naturally small (yellow nivalis types, so always small) with thin roots which were partially dried out. That's pretty much inevitable, but could be avoided by buying in the Summer.
Most bulbs will recover and survive the treatment, but all must suffer at least some setback and go back down in size as a result. Often they won't flower the next year.
Lifting in leaf to rogue your stocks, move bulbs around within your garden or lift some for a friend, followed by quick replanting, is all okay and what snowdrop growers have always done, but to transfer that treatment to large-scale production, lifting and dispatch on a nursery scale doesn't seem the best idea in the world to me.
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Yes Martin I have to agree with you there, although my bulbs were healthy, a good size etc the trauma of travelling through the post, and sliding up and down a box with no padding, meant that a couple had quite bent and bashed leaves. Newspaper padding out the box would have helped, fingers crossed they will recover :-\
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What about Monksilver. I suspect I'll just get a returned cheque? ??? My computer needs the wire brush and Detol treatment. The display on my screan just flashes on and then stays blank. Need to get it repair, or find a Jedi! :(
Yes Martin I have to agree with you there, although my bulbs were healthy, a good size etc the trauma of travelling through the post, and sliding up and down a box with no padding, meant that a couple had quite bent and bashed leaves. Newspaper padding out the box would have helped, fingers crossed they will recover :-\
I find sticking the bags down with Sellotape works too.
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Northgreen parcel has just arrived.
John
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Still nothing for me which in a way is good and bad. Good for the bank and bad for the collection
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Hi All
could I ask for you opinion on whether this leaf is showing signs of virus?
[attach = 1]
It is on Trymlet and I am not sure if it is safe to plant in the garden with everything else. I hope that I am just being over cautious and that you will tell me that the leaves often look like that at this time of year.
many thanks
John
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Northgreen parcel has just arrived.
Yes mine too John ;D 8)
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It looks like it could be virus, John. Difficult to say for sure but to be safe I'd plant away from other snowdrops. I reckon a lot of snowdrops (especially plicatus cultivars) have virus but live with it.
I'd write to the supplier and tell him it looks like it could have virus. If he gets enough people saying their Trymlet leaves look virusy then he may write to say destroy them and offer a refund. But plant it somewhere safe (I always put my new arrivals in pots of gritty compost, keep out of strong sun, and liquid feed, to give best chances of recovery after the postal ordeal) and maybe liquid feeding will improve the look of the leaves.
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Still nothing for me which in a way is good and bad. Good for the bank and bad for the collection
Probably still in the post, Mark.
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you beat me to it. I have just taken some photos of a virused snowdrop that was sent to me. The virus is obvious also. Dont worry lurkers it didnt come from any of you.
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Mmmm, sadly I have to say "mine too John" for the Trymlet. I think Martin's advice is sensible. :(
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Here is my virused snowdrop.
The second photo shows that although my Augustus ex Ebay showed no virus earlier this year it is now certainly affected
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I'm gutted about the Trymlet - ordered it last year and it was sold out - ordered it again this year and it will now have to be banished to my Mum's garden as my garden isn't big enough to take the risk! Well that was a waste of this years spending money! :'( :( >:(
A couple more leaf shots (one with back light as find this is usualy the easiest way to spot virus)
[attach = 1]
[attach = 2]
John
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Here is my virused snowdrop.
The second photo shows that although my Augustus ex Ebay showed no virus earlier this year it is now certainly affected
The virus in a snowdrop does tend to show up more later in the season, the virus becoming more active as the temperature rises.
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If you get your money back, John, you can still use Trymlet as a seed parent and raise some interesting offspring of your own.
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Please call me paranoid
please!..... ???
Have just looked over my new plants again - please tell me the 'Anne of Geierstein' isn't virused too!
[attach = 1]
[attach = 2]
John :( :( :'(
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no paranoia
My box is here and Florence Baker is virused
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Just been informed that my North Green order has arrived. I don't know if I am lucky or not but Trymlet has been supplied as to has Anne of Geierstein. Unfortunately all this talk of virus has taken the wind out of my sails. Looks like I'll have to find somewhere remote to plant these. Not a great day.
David
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Dear Paranoid
I recall a conversation I had with Richard Hobbs, when I said that I would like Trym he immediately said that they are all virused as too are Augustus and Clare Blakeway-Phillips. I should think there is a high probability that Trymlet would have a susceptibility to getting virused with Trym as a parent. Like you I was so pleased that I had got it in the order at long last - particularly as it had two flower heads, and then gutted at the state of it.
Unfortunately your A of G does look as though it has the same problem. It seems a bit much to spend £60 on a couple of bulbs to find that they are not up to scratch through no fault of your own. :'( :'(
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My bank account wont be happy because I got everything I asked for
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My bank account wont be happy because I got everything I asked for
I believe there is an old chinese saying ::) "Beware what you set your heart on for you shall surely have it."
I too had all I asked for from North Green and the Snowdrop Company so happy in one respect...but in previous years not having all I ordered meant not quite so much was spent :-[
I have been banned from further purchases (and I still have a couple of orders to arrive yet - oops :-X ).
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As I said earlier, I think a lot of older cultivars (especially plicatus ones) have some virus but can live with it (the symptoms showing less if the plants are growing strongly and well-fed - with something coontaining a full range of minerals and micro-nutrients like Phostrogen). The symptoms tend to develop when the bulbs are stressed (e.g. poor growing conditions, not enough water an d/or plant food) and when temperatures rise later in the season. A grower could look at his or her stock in early January and think it's all okay. But by lifting time in March, it could be a different story.
I've noticed Florence Baker tends to be virusy. I think it's an old plicatus selection showing its age, like Augustus. Anne of G. is a very old cultivar and likely to carry some virus load.
Maybe we all need to have a "virus corner" well away from healthier stock for such snowdrops, if we can't all bear to chuck them out. If you give them good compost and feed well the they can grow and flower okay. The risk is of course the possibility of cross-infection.
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Bad things always come in threes......
and to finish my set.....
.....here is Baxendales Late from the same order :(
[attach = 1]
from
a thoroughly miserable John
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On the subject of virus transmission, of course a grower can easily infect loads of stock when chipping if every precaution isn't taken. On occasions I've heard growers describe how they chip and have mentally identified to myself various ways in which they might be passing on virus from one set of chipped bulbs to the next. But often they've been surrounded by people wanting to talk to them so it's difficult to have a quiet chat.
Sometimes the instructions given for chipping leave open the possibility for cross-infection. For example, you'll often read something like "soak chipped bulbs in fungicide solution" without any warning to use a separate container of fungicide solution for each batch of chips, discarding after each batch and washing out the container thoroughly, or "seive chips" out of the solution without warning to wash the sieve thouroughly between batches. I never know if the writer is taking these precautions and forgot to say, or isnt.
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For example, you'll often read something like "soak chipped bulbs in fungicide solution" without any warning to use a separate container of fungicide solution for each batch of chips, discarding after each batch and washing out the container thoroughly
I have always wondered about this when reading descriptions on chipping. I now realise, after speaking to others this year, that one mixes up a large amount of fungicide and then decants a little into a separate small container for each chipped bulb. If I had tried chipping last year I think I would have been reusing one large jug and putting all chipped bulbs into the same container. It hadn't even occured to me about the sieve!
thanks Martin
John
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Name and shame John. There is no excuse for sending out virussed stock.
Talking of 'Baxendale's Late'. Mine has either kicked the bucket or it is very late this year? :'(
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My North Green snowdrops just arrived. I got everything except Gal. elwesii 'Naughton', which is a pity as that and 'Yvonne Hay' (which I did get) were the two I especially wanted to try in my breeding programme. Oh well, at least I did get Yvonne Hay.
Only one plicatus type in my order (a couple of Washfield Warham ordered for someone else) so I doubt I'll have any major virus problems (Washfield Warham I find is usually clean, and the elwesii types which make up the bulk of my order don't tend to show virus symptoms and are probably more resistant than plicatus types - also apparently more reistant to fungal disease - one reason I want to use big elwesii cultivars in my breeding).
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The risk is of course the possibility of cross-infection.
EXACTLY! WHY WOULD YOU RISK THE HEALTH OF OTHER PLANTS FOR THE SAKE OF A DUFF SNOWDROP??
This isn't white fever, it is white LUNACY!
I believe there is an old chinese saying "Beware what you set your heart on for you shall surely have it."
I always said a thousand million old Chinese were unlikely to be wrong :)
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Talking of 'Baxendale's Late'. Mine has either kicked the bucket or it is very late this year?
Fingers crossed Anthony, I thought I had lost mine but it made an appearance last week, and as you are that further to the North I should imagine it may still have time to make an appearance ;)
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And yet lots of people do keep growing virus-infected snowdrops, Maggi. Reluctance to get rid of something you've paid a lot for or a nice clump that still grows and flowers well.
Some snowdrop viruses don't seem to spread fast (unless helped by the grower) and often snowdrops will live with them and flower normally if well grown, only fading away slowly.
The long-term answer is of course NEW SEEDLING CULTIVARS. Watch this space! :D
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Martin, I just don't believe that is a sensible idea...... if your old cat were dying of a disease that would take a long time to kill her, would you still allow her to suffer? What if she were infectious to every other cat in the house just by being there ? It just does not make sense. We have been through the heartache of burning a really fabulous Iris collection because of the arrival of virus in one or two plants.... these are plants, not people; there is no vaccine or quarantine procedure to disinfect them....they could be lethal to your other plants, even if that takes a long time to show up. Viruses transmute, it's what they do... it's in their job description.
Martin is correct, new seedlings are the answer.... and lots of fun to work on...
Snowdrop lovers: I implore you, BREED NEW CULTIVARS and get off the manic bandwagon that has you enthralled.
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Roll on the day when an infected cat will potentilly infect and kill all all others in the area. When you find one let me know ;D
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Maggi, I'm not advocating keeping virused snowdrops in the garden. Just saying that a lot of people do, which is a problem. Just as I'm not advocating people selling virused snowdrops, but some obviously do. I was just pointing out the reasons why some growers keep virused snowdrops - you don't get the flower colour breaking that disfigures things like iris and crocus (well, sometimes a little breaking of the green mark, buit the flower segments are usually fine - difficult to get colour breaking in a white flower) so, if the bulbs are growing okay and flowering people often put up with the virus, trying to keep them away from healthier bulbs. I guess that's okay if you've acres of woodland to sequester them away in, but dogey in a small garden.
I agree - new cultivars. I'm trying, honest. But it's slow work.
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Mark: as I wrote that about cats, I have to admit that bad thoughts WERE going through my mind :-X
Martin, I know you were not ADVOCATING the practice, merely documenting it!
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Maggi
Shame on you :-[ :'( :-[
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Maybe we all need to have a "virus corner" well away from healthier stock for such snowdrops, if we can't all bear to chuck them out. If you give them good compost and feed well the they can grow and flower okay. The risk is of course the possibility of cross-infection.
Maggi, I suppose (re-reading it) this does sound a bit like advocating keeping them. I was being a little fascetious about the prevalance of virused snowdrops in people's collections and at the same time trying to say that if growers won't chuck them out then at least isolate them (and feed them well, so that at least you'll get good flowers in exhange for the risk of virus spread). The problem is, it can be difficult to see much wrong with virused snowdrops, apart from a few streaks on the leaves, so it can be difficult to persuade growers to chuck them out - even the books say things like virus-like symptoms may just be problems with growing conditions and to try growing them better to see if the symptoms go away!!! I think there's a lot of wishful thinking goes on - blind eye to the telescope "I see no virus" sort of thing.
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Maggi
Shame on you
Mea culpa, Arthur. :-[ In my defence, I can only say I am just VERY fond of our garden birds :-\ :-X
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I hope that my current attitude (it could well change in future) will not be seen as too silly.
Anything that is found to have virus in my collection is moved to my Mum's house (50+ miles away). Her garden is a LOT bigger than mine and has plenty of room for sick plants.
The reasons I do this (I think) are:
1) I have spent the money already and can't bring myself to chuck them.
2) I hate killing anything and always rescue plants that are dying on peoples desks/windowsills.
3) One day there might be a cure for virused plants (please?) - and mine might be the only ones left?...
But I would never keep them within 10 miles of my garden.
I know that there is talk of some 'old plants' being less healthy and more virus prone; and almost not worth keeping around - but one of my other passions is Victorian Asplenium scolopendrium ferns - there were varieties in the hundreds once - but now they can be counted in the tens. My friend Tim Brock is doing his best to keep any surviving ones in existence and I always have the thought of all those lost ferns in my mind. Part of me thinks I should burn the virused plants - but the other part of me will not let this happen and I send them to Mums in the hope they recover (no chance?) or have babies - or a cure is found one day.
John
Jx
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Here are two late flowering Galanthus, both pokuliform
1. white - no cultivar name
2. Belles Etoiles - acquired last year in Oirlich
Gerd
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Doesn't sound like a silly attitude to me, John.
Very nice, Gerd.
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I'm always thinking pocs do not stand out and dont understand all the named cultivars but Belles Etoiles stands out
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Hi Gerd
thank you for posting the picture of 'Belles Etoiles' - it has cheered my afternoon so much after the rubbish week I am experiencing so far.
Once again, another plant from over the channel that actually looks different from all the other snowdrops.
thanks and best wishes :)
John
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Has anyone noticed Palepink of Ebay fame is now advertising for a snowdrop. If only I had Yaffle!
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John - I took the same measures with 3 or 4 Hellebores that exhibited the classic symptoms of "black death" virus. They were to good to toss. I gave them to a friend about 10 miles away as she had no other Hellebores and there were none in the neighborhood. Five years later she says they have performed well and flowered. I haven't seen them personally and she really is not a gardener so I must have her photograph the leaves this spring. Others here that have exhibited the same symptoms died within a year or so and these were in pots. Have not seen this in the ground. So all this is puzzling.
johnw
freezing rain overnight and the province was a skating rink. Going to plus 8c and heavy rain this afternoon.
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and there were none in the neighborhood
But how do you KNOW that for sure, especially in the UK where gardens are so closely packed! :P
If attempting to clean plants up, then a proper quarantine regime of an insect proof covering etc is surely a must? This cover could also be of some material that would inhibit a wind borne germ etc....
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I agree, Maggi, I wouldn't like to live near John's mum - my innocent little 'drops would be exposed to all the nasties from John's plants.
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Maggi
Shame on you
Mea culpa, Arthur. :-[ In my defence, I can only say I am just VERY fond of our garden birds :-\ :-X
Maggi
So am I - and my bulbs. In thirteen years our beloved moggie has only caught one bird, but presented us with countless mice ;) ;) :) ;D :) ;) ;)
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I agree, Maggi, I wouldn't like to live near John's mum - my innocent little 'drops would be exposed to all the nasties from John's plants.
I shall now keep quiet about where my Mum lives in case my inheritance from the house is damaged!
John
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If only I had Yaffle!
Well, as they say, I haven't one myself but I know somebody who has...but they are not for sale.
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Brian if one is sold for Ebay prices just think of what you could spend with it. I know someone with twinscales I wonder if that will do?
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This really belongs in the Feb thread, I've taken too long to post!
Walsingham Feb 12 2008. Massed snowdrops, some with eranthis, super narcissus too but I've posted them on the narcissus thread - some people probably don't come here for fear of catching the fever!
The last pic is a snowie that I bought there, don't know if it will throw 2 on a stem again?
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Great find. Next year will tell if it's stable
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I posted a photo of Yaffle
edit by M : see this page
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1381.msg33036;topicseen#msg33036
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Brian if one is sold for Ebay prices just think of what you could spend with it.
Yes I take your point Mark, but as I said "I don't have it"
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...and come to think of it, I'd rather swap with someone than profit from their state of health (ie the fever).
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Maybe it has not been noticed, i found last weekend maybe the first poculoform double, or are there already some forms known?
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Gerard it's one of those snowdrops that are liked or hated. I quite like the oddities
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I had feared, also a lot of fun :) Hans;)Maggi
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John,
Coming back on the virus issue i noticed that the two Galanthus bibles deal differently with virus. In the 'big' Snowdrops bible it is said that some cultivars/hybrids almost always seem to have a virus and can live happily with it. In the 'smaller' bible The Genus Galanthus (Davis) it is said dig them up and burn them. I refer to this because it would appear that at the present prices, galanthus are sold at, it is hard for growers to bin a virus plant if they could also sell it to the hopefully uninformed customer. After trying to get hold of 'Primrose Warburg' for a long time i finally saw one at one of the few sales here in Holland of 'special' Galanthus. Once home i saw that it was not only nice and yellow but suffered from virus as well. The seller, when contacted referred to the Snowdrop bible and said that a lot of Galanthus had virus and it was nothing to worry about.
At the present state of play of the galanthus world with lots of people chasing rarities and willing to pay any price asked it is inevatable that a lot of disease/virus is spread very rapidly amongst collectors
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John,
High demand and ready money seem to cover many vices.
Perhaps swapping of snowdrops is the better way to go for enthusiasts. Enthusiasts will do their best not to pass on inferior quality bulbs to swapping friends as this will give them a bad reputation and they would then be unlikely to be asked to swap again.
Of course, it is also much cheaper!
Paddy
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Mark, i don't like them, i love those odd things.
Not to make you worry John,
But there are many virusse's in plant's that we don't even know of.
With micropropping you can get from a ill plant, healthy breed. But like with the gladiolus they tried to microprop, the special markings and sometime's even the special coulor changed or vanished.
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Relating back to G. 'Yaffle", I managed to buy one from Colin Mason at the Gala this year (I seem to remember £15) so he could be the one to watch next year.
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What about G. 'Augustus'? It has got a virus and is sold very often but is it possible to put it by the side of non-virus-infected snowdrops? (I am very sorry if this question was already asked many times.)
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What about G. 'Augustus'? It has got a virus and is sold very often but is it possible to put it by the side of non-virus-infected snowdrops? (I am very sorry if this question was already asked many times.)
Arne, most 'Augustus' do, as you say, have virus. Anyone who feels they must grow it anyway should keep it well away from other snowdrops.
Interestingly I have 'Augustus' which came from The Snowdrop Company, whose stock is said to be virus free. Earlier in the year it did look clean and healthy, but now, as the weather warms up and the leaves develop more, it's starting to look a bit streaky!! A perfect example of how a snowdrop can look very healthy at the (colder) start of the season and end up looking virused. It's no wonder growers sometimes have trouble making up their minds if their snowdrops have virus or not.
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They could look virused, but they don't have to be it.
Because like you said Martin, the cold weather cause's a certain condition, that plant's are unable to obtain enough nutrient's from the soil they need for the fotosynthese.
Especcially in Irisses this is a problem, when the weather is rather cold for spring, they all look green with yellow striping.
So make sure the structure of the soil is good, and put every year enough organic stuff on top of it. The drainage will be better and there will be plenty of the basic elements the plant needs. Besides the better drainage the soil will warm up easier and this will give less problems with the yellow/green plant appearance.
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Has anyone noticed Palepink of Ebay fame is now advertising for a snowdrop. If only I had Yaffle!
Don't rate 'Yaffle' as anything special. Am I getting fussy? I suppose with 70 plus varieties and species in the garden I am.
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Talking of 'Baxendale's Late'. Mine has either kicked the bucket or it is very late this year?
Fingers crossed Anthony, I thought I had lost mine but it made an appearance last week, and as you are that further to the North I should imagine it may still have time to make an appearance ;)
Spot on Brian. I raked around in the clump of Sedum album that had overgrown the spot and found two healthy shoots. Not sign of Galanthus angustifolius which should be nearby. :-\
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They could look virused, but they don't have to be it.
Because like you said Martin, the cold weather cause's a certain condition, that plant's are unable to obtain enough nutrient's from the soil they need for the fotosynthese.
Especcially in Irisses this is a problem, when the weather is rather cold for spring, they all look green with yellow striping.
But in that case, the yellow striping would happen in the early cold weather and disappear in the later warm weather. With snowdrops, the virus-like yellow striping happens more in the later part of the season when the weather is warmer (and when viruses are more active).
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Sorry Guys
I am convinced the plants are virused. My soil structure is, I believe, very good and has new vermicompost added from my worm farm every year.
Unfortunately this year I know from a very bad experience that virus can and DOES spread easily between plants. My problem started 4 years ago with 50 cheap 'Rip van Winkle' bulbs from Holland. These showed sign of virus straight away. Stupidly I didn't remove them as I didn't realise that it could spread and I have kept growing them. This year I have had to remove a hundred 'tete a tete', 3 other clumps of various narcissus, and at the latest count over 20 clumps of Galanthus.
I really do think anyone who tries to convince themselves that virus is not really a problem should seriously reconsider such a destructive idea. My guess is that I haven't seen the last of the virus - this year I have removed all bulbs that showed any sign of the problem - but think I shall have to keep to this strict removal policy for at least the next 2 or 3 years before I can be sure of a virus free collection once again.
John
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That's true, in the early cold weather the soil temperature is that low for absorbing Magnesia and Kalium and that causes the yellow/green striping. During March when the soiltemperature is rising it should dissappear, if not there is a problem.
Its very interesting to measure also the soiltemperature sometime's, it shows you how cold the bulbs must be during the growingseason.
Problem's with virus overdrawl are possible in april when small insect's are becoming active, so it's important to remove the plant's before its getting warmer.
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I raked around in the clump of Sedum album that had overgrown the spot and found two healthy shoots.
Glad you haven't lost it Anthony, fingers crossed for the other. I still have no sign of Tiny or Haddens Tiny (the same I think) ??? ...and some of my twinscales are only just showing too!
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Re G 'Yaffle", as with everything I guess, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, must admit to a weakness for the 'yellows' and hence I rather like the limey greens also. That said I also purchased a bulb for £5 this year which I really like - nivalis leaf, very dark ovary and solid, dark inner mark - bought as G. 'Bitton" which it obviously is not - but I really like it so am not upset. It now bears a label saying NOT BITTON until and unless someone can tell me what it really is.
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It now bears a label saying NOT BITTON until and unless someone can tell me what it really is.
'Once Bitten, Twice Shy'........ ;) ::)
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Exactly Maggi. However, the book is a bit heavy to be carrying around, and unfortunately I cannot remember what everything (700 plus?) is supposed to look like, so I will buy something simply because I like the look of it.
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I will buy something simply because I like the look of it.
And that is the best way to buy anything! Not because it is rare, or may be an investment, but because one likes the look of it.... an excellent criterion.
Actually, though, Carole, I had hoped I was making a frightfully clever joke about a name for your Not-Bitton ( Bitten!!??) snowdrop :-[ :-[ :-\
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Carole when is Spring Thing?
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because none likes the look of it.... an excellent criterion.
??? ::)
Edit: OOPS! sorry, meant one not none! m
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Were these plants just damaged/trampled or are they virus-infected? :-\
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Stagonospora problem
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Are you sure? Should I throw them in the bin?
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Well it looks like Stag but it can be treated with Carbendazim
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So they will turn normal if they are treated with that?
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some people recommend a 24 hour soak leaves too
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Thank you for these information
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Maggi I did appreciate the joke, honest.
Mark the Spring Thing is Saturday 15th, I have been making soup for the traders today (it will be passed to Sarah and frozen). However, I am going to Blackpool hopefully in time to hear Ian on Thursday and for the show on Saturday. It also means I can stay with no. 1 son and hopefully get some instruction on how to post photographs etc.
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Is there a list with all virus-infected snowdrops?
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Maggi I did appreciate the joke, honest.
Kind of you to cheer me up by saying so Carole!
You must introduce yourself to Ian, so he can put a face to a forumist. 8)
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I am having a hard time figuring out what Stagonospora actually DOES?
Okay, the leaves look a bit manky so presumably there is less good leaf left to photosynthesise and the bulbs do not bulk up so well. Therfore I can see that it might cause snowdrops to diminish over several seasons. However, in the account by Matt Bishop in the Daffodils Yearbook, it seems that the disease spread to and killed many of his bulbs between the end of the snowdrop season and June of that same year when he dug them up. Apparantly the bulbs had rotted.
I cannot work out how die-back in leaves relates to rot in bulbs. If you dig up a snowdrop where the leaves show signs of stagonospora will you inveviatbly find that the bulb is rotting? Which comes first?
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Just now you may see red stains and streaks on the bulbs as you see on Hippeastrums.
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I am having a hard time figuring out what Stagonospora actually DOES? Okay, the leaves look a bit manky so presumably there is less good leaf left to photosynthesise and the bulbs do not bulk up so well. Therfore I can see that it might cause snowdrops to diminish over several seasons. However, in the account by Matt Bishop in the Daffodils Yearbook, it seems that the disease spread to and killed many of his bulbs between the end of the snowdrop season and June of that same year when he dug them up. Apparantly the bulbs had rotted.
I cannot work out how die-back in leaves relates to rot in bulbs. If you dig up a snowdrop where the leaves show signs of stagonospora will you inveviatbly find that the bulb is rotting? Which comes first?
Alan, the fungus infects the whole plant, leaves, flowers and bulb. The symptoms first show on the leaves, but it's not simply a case of the leaves alone being affected - at the same time the fungus is at work in the bulb, destroying areas of the bulb scales, just as it destroys areas of the leaves. So it's not simply a case of damaged leaves reducing the snowdrop's ability to photosynthesise. The whole plant is being necrotised.
The first year that the disease shows is when the leaf symptoms appear (concurrent with some bulb damage - showing as reddish staining and rotting of outer scales) followed in the second year by worse leaf symptoms, flowers also turning brown and/ or failing to emerge from the spathe, further bulb scale rotting, and third year usually total bulb death (or almost total, with no leaf growth). Sometimes it can be faster, especially in very wet soil or a very wet summer, as in Matt's case.
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The stagonospora curtisii fungus spores are carried in the air, too, so physical removal of affected plants is not necessarily a permanent cure. :P
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I am having a hard time figuring out what Stagonospora actually DOES? Okay, the leaves look a bit manky so presumably there is less good leaf left to photosynthesise and the bulbs do not bulk up so well. Therfore I can see that it might cause snowdrops to diminish over several seasons. However, in the account by Matt Bishop in the Daffodils Yearbook, it seems that the disease spread to and killed many of his bulbs between the end of the snowdrop season and June of that same year when he dug them up. Apparantly the bulbs had rotted.
I cannot work out how die-back in leaves relates to rot in bulbs. If you dig up a snowdrop where the leaves show signs of stagonospora will you inveviatbly find that the bulb is rotting? Which comes first?
Alan, the fungus infects the whole plant, leaves, flowers and bulb. The symptoms first show on the leaves, but it's not simply a case of the leaves alone being affected - at the same time the fungus is at work in the bulb, destroying areas of the bulb scales, just as it destroys areas of the leaves. So it's not simply a case of damaged leaves reducing the snowdrop's ability to photosynthesise. The whole plant is being necrotised.
The first year that the disease shows is when the leaf symptoms appear (concurrent with some bulb damage - showing as reddish staining and rotting of outer scales) followed in the second year by worse leaf symptoms, flowers also turning brown and/ or failing to emerge from the spathe, further bulb scale rotting, and third year usually total bulb death (or almost total, with no leaf growth). Sometimes it can be faster, especially in very wet soil or a very wet summer, as in Matt's case.
This paints a very gloomy picture should my snowdrops ever succumb to Stagonospora, particularly as I have no access to Carbendazim without trying to pass myself off as a nurseryman! What stops "wild" populations of snowdrops being decimated by a disease like this? Or does some small percentage of snowdrops have a natural immunity, thereby enabling a wild population to regenerate over a period of time?
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Brian I think the problem is the swapping and buying that goes on. You dont know who the suppliers are buying from. In a stable wild population I guess those that get it die and that's it. Also in the wild you dont see the clumps that grow in gardens. I'll send you some carbendazim when mine arrives with me. Must make a phone call tonight
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This seems a sad end to the snowdrop season. There are very few snowdrops still in flower in my garden. There are very few photographs of snowdrops being posted on the forum and we are left to discuss disease and death. Oh, too sad.
I suppose I can console myself that there are still some snowdrops to arrive in the post and I am off to collect a nice clump on Saturday - an Irish cultivar that I wish to build up in numbers.
Paddy
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Don't be sad, Paddy; there are still lots of snowies looking nice here in Aberdeen gardens..... though not many of the fancy varieties favoured by the fevered..... good honest snowies... looking white and pure and lovely 8)
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Ah, the joys of the cold north!
Paddy
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As some of you know there has been some discussion on leaves of new purchases being virused. Tonight we went to a most entertaining talk by Ben Potterton on woodland plants, even more entertaining as his powerpoint presentation didn't work so he ad libbed for an hour...he could talk the hind legs off a donkey. I digress, I was hoping to see either Richard Hobbs, Ann Borrill or both and took along a Galanthus Trymlet recently arrived, the foliage of which I was not particularly happy with. Unfortunately they were not there, but John Foster was - Galanthus Gala devotees have visited his garden in the past. He does a lot of twin-scaling and his opinion was that it is a third year twin-scale whose bulb hasn't enough energy to support the plant. He said take the seed pods off and feed, keep it in a pot for the next year (away from the rest just in case) and look after it. He had the same symptoms with a G. Florence Baker last year and this year it is in the best of health. I think that this is the most reassuring answer I have had as (knowing the original grower) I could not believe that virus stock was being sent out.
I hope that brings a crumb of comfort to at least two people I have been in touch with :)
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Brian, I am sure you are correct... your report will be a relief to many fevered brows :)
I am delighted to hear that there may be a reasonable explanation as well as a hope for recovery, and that the "good" growers will retain their reputations 8)
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I hope he's right, Brian. But of course it can be hard to tell whether a snowdrop under stress (as in recently chipped and bare-rooted for mail order sale) is showing non-virus symptoms of stress or is a snowdrop which carries a virus load which produces symptoms under stress but no symptoms (or much reduced) when well grown and well fed. I do think that some (certainly some older) cultivars do carry virus which they can live with and which only shows under stress. Actually, you can probably say that about a lot of different plants (lilies being a good example). The advice to be cautious just in case is always the best advice.
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Trym is just out with me and Baxendale's Late is still closely wrapped in its leaves an inch above the ground.
This seems a sad end to the snowdrop season. There are very few snowdrops still in flower in my garden. There are very few photographs of snowdrops being posted on the forum and we are left to discuss disease and death. Oh, too sad.
I suppose I can console myself that there are still some snowdrops to arrive in the post and I am off to collect a nice clump on Saturday - an Irish cultivar that I wish to build up in numbers.
Paddy
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It is amazing the differences in flowering seasons between us when there is really not a great distance between both locations. At this time in my garden 'Trym' is beginning to fade and look a little tatty. It has been in flower for several weeks.
One forum member, from Canada if my memory serves me correctly, mentioned that he had two gardens with quite a disparity in flowering season. He could enjoy the same plants in his warmer garden and then travel to his other to appreciate it again. Perhaps I should take a plot in Edinburgh! Or maybe I should do it the other way round and take a plot in Spain near Rafa and count southern Ireland as my cold garden, altogether more comfortable I think.
Paddy
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Paddy, here are some nice places in east germany too. We need good english teachers. (I`m the best example). Now you could admire the most ofthe bohemian cultivares.
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had two gardens with quite a disparity in flowering season. He could enjoy the same plants in his warmer garden and then travel to his other to appreciate it again.
Paddy
Paddy - That was probably me. The disparity is more with rhodos etc. and not so great with Galanthus. The first snowdrops near the house here in colder Halifax were showing colour two weeks ago and opened this past weekend. On Sunday night the temperature dropped to -9c and the flowers and stems collapsed and were completely limp all day yesterday. Today they are up and perky. It's amazing how much cold they can endure when in flower. I remember one very early spring when they got hit by -15c or so with no snow cover and rebounded.
Usually the G.s bloom here in late March and continue till mid May.
I plan to go stalking the drifts in the southern end of the province in the next few weeks. So don't give up on the possibility of more postings!
johnw - +4c
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I plan to go stalking the drifts in the southern end of the province in the next few weeks. So don't give up on the possibility of more postings!
excellent news John - photos please :D
regards
John
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John,
You are the lucky fellow with your two gardens. Tell me, do you grow a different selection of plants in each garden?
Hagan,
Is this a job offer? I think I prefer to stay in warm and moist Ireland.
Paddy
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Paddy, sometimes I think about leaving my area too. Dreaming from a green island. But we cannot meet us altogether in Ireland. No new snowdrop-cultivares would come to you from the continent. ;)
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Here's 'Blewbury Tart' and 'Trym' yesterday.
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Anthony,
I think I may have caught that "White Fever" associated illness called, "Stagno Fever" because as soon as I enlarged your photographs I immediately looked closely at the foliage to see if there were any signs of streaking or other defect. What a terrible mind-set I am in danger of falling into!
The plants are beautiful. The photographs of 'Blewberry Tart' are particularly excellent reminding me of an exercise I was asked to complete recently for a camera club of which I am a member - "a composition showing shallow depth of field." You have perfectly sharp focus on the flower with the background blurred, just as our eyes would view them I think.
'Trym' is doing very well for you.
Paddy
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Lovely clump of Trym Anthony, I don't think mine is going to flower this year - only put in last year, so I don't mind if it is hunkering down before being splendid next year!
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JohnI think I prefer to stay in warm and moist Ireland.
Paddy
Paddy - A wise decision, we had 5" of unexpected white fluffy stuff last night.
The southern garden is mainly rhododendrons and magnolias. The city garden here is small and rhodos quickly outgrow the space so I am moving most south along with countless ones started from seed (1000+). Amazing how fast you can fill 8+ acres. Once I get some spare time I will start to create some peat beds and screes for bulbs and specialty plants. It's a 3.5 hour drive one way so life is hectic from March till December!
john
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I have been moving some snowdrops and finding lots of bugs like this one amongst the bulbs. Some of the bulbs look a bit damaged, although nothing too bad. Does anyone know what this is? The grid pattern is about 15mm square so the creepy crawly must be about 20mm long.
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But on a more positive note, I pass this clump of snowdrops on my walk through the village where I live. This photo was taken on Friday 14th (two days ago) and although it is starting to go over, it must be the last single snowdrop still in flower hereabouts. It is quite distinctive, squat but with large flowers.
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Alan your bug looks like a millipede
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plicatus
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Yesterday I have visited the North of Italy to collect Allium ursinum ( for cooking !).
In the same area there are a lot of Galanthus.So I have took a look for unusual Galanthus, and I have found one ! ;D
The coloure on the pict isn`t correct, the ovarium is a little bit more yellow, the inside of the calyx (right word ?) is completly orange.
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Hi Alan,
your long and small animal lives from dead material. No problem for healthy bulbs. But they go in to small caves of wood, fruits and so on. So you can find them also in bulbs.
Hagen
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In our area there are only G. nivalis.I`ll try to make picts of the inside of the calyx .I`ll post it....
Is there anybody wo can show a pict of G.nivalis 'blonde inge' ?
best Gerhard
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A morning view of BLONDE INGE
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and here is the picture
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Ah ha. Lovely pics showing off the distinct nature of this. I've not seen this one in the flesh.
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Two Galanthus plicatus hybrids were given to me yesterday. To date they have not been named though they have been passed around under a "pet" name which I won't continue here. Please have a look at them and if you think they bear resemblance to any hybrid or cultivar already in circulation let me know.
Please forgive the poor state of the flowers. I picked these up on Saturday and had them in the car until this morning so they are the worse for wear.
Paddy
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I'll wait until next year to give an opinion
I was very surprised tonight after work to see three Galanthus in flower. Two elwesii and one plicatus. The sun was too low to takes photos of two of them. This is the plicatus.
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I don't like garden plants so here are some wild Galanthus from Iran... The photos are from two different places. First is at 2000 m and the second at 1000 m. Both places are at the west slopes down to Caspian Sea...
/Stellan
http://www.sandstorm.se (http://www.sandstorm.se)
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Hello Stellan, I like garden plants, but even more than that I like to see them in a wild situation, so thank you very much for posting these pictures, keep them coming, we do enjoy your postings as not all of us are able to get out into the wild to see things. Thankyou
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I have been moving some snowdrops and finding lots of bugs like this one amongst the bulbs. Some of the bulbs look a bit damaged, although nothing too bad. Does anyone know what this is? The grid pattern is about 15mm square so the creepy crawly must be about 20mm long.
Just seen this. Looks like a millipede (if it has two pairs of legs/segment). Perhaps the Spotted Snake millipede (Blaniulus guttulatus)? It is said to be a pest of potatoes.
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Stellan,
Did you find some Galanthus (transcaucasicus I believe) with much smaller leaves? I was shown plants from Mazanderan, 9 km SE of Alibad, 400 m, under trees, which had a quite different shape.
Gerd
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I have been moving some snowdrops and finding lots of bugs like this one amongst the bulbs. Some of the bulbs look a bit damaged, although nothing too bad. Does anyone know what this is? The grid pattern is about 15mm square so the creepy crawly must be about 20mm long.
Just seen this. Looks like a millipede (if it has two pairs of legs/segment). Perhaps the Spotted Snake millipede (Blaniulus guttulatus)? It is said to be a pest of potatoes.
I shrank the photo to post it but zooming in on the original it is clear there ARE two pairs of legs per segment. But no potatoes in the vicinity.
At this time of year the outermost scales of the bulb are dying, perhaps prone to rot in wet conditions? So is something that eats rotting vegetable matter actually good for the bulb?
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Obviously, Alan, you need to plant some potatoes near your bulbs so that these insects are well fed and leave your bulbs alone.
I had a woodmouse living in one of my glasshouses for two winters and it never touched a bulb. I fed it each day with peanuts. In fact it became so used to me that it would take a peanut from my fingers. It hid behind the pots on the staging but if I moved the pot it would simply sit still and make no effort to move away.
Such practical suggestions as that above are all part of the service and abuse you can receive here on the SRGC. And it's free!
Paddy
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Stellan I would say those Galanthus are lagodechianus
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Stellan I would say those Galanthus are lagodechianus
Aren't the leaves too broad?
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yes but it's the only one that has short inner green lines
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yes but it's the only one that has short inner green lines
What we need is a sample so we can do the comparison side-by-side. ;D
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Stellan I would say those Galanthus are lagodechianus
Mark,
According ' The Genus Galanthus ' by Aaron P. Davis Galanthus lagodechiansus does not occur in Iran. Furthermore please look at page 36 under Z - Inner perianth segments - of the same book.
Gerd
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The mystery deepens. 8) Maybe Hans could shed some light?
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yes but it's the only one that has short inner green lines
What we need is a sample so we can do the comparison side-by-side. ;D
I'll check my photos again and se if there are any better but first i have to find a good internet cafe... If you go to Iran i can tell you there you can find the bulbs or if you go later you can collect seeds...
/Stellan
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I just looked at my transcaucasicus and the inner lines are about half the lenght of the inner( about 6/10 of the lenght that is).I do not have lagodechianus.
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in addition,g.lagodechianus has applanate vernation an g. transcaucasicus has supervolute vernation.
I can`t see at the photo`s what vernation the are.
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Stellan which plant are you showing us the inside?
The big group look convolute to me.
Here is the inside of G. lagodechianus
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Today I brought Anne Wright to the garden where I found nivalis x plicatus 'Marks Tall'. We found one with a flower stem 20 inches 51cm tall. Unbelievable!
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What garden was that, Mark?
Not that I wish to visit, nor that I want the plant - have it already - simply for completeness of background of the snowdrop.
Paddy
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Paddy the garden has no name. The house that is now converted into offices is black stone with a walled garden that is now only grass. The garden must be about 3 acres and used to be maintained when I was pre teens. It has some choice plants and trees in it. Ash is a major weed in it now. The stream hardy flows now and the pond is silted up and no longer exists except as a large area of boggy ground. There are skunk cabbage, Lysichiton americanus, along the stream bed. There are masses of Galanthus nivalis. The owner must have been into plants. I dont visit enough to see whats in there. Finding Colchicums and Erythroniums yesterday was a surprise. Nettles are the main plant in the summer growing to waist height and more
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Such pity to see a house/home and garden fall into ruin.
Bob Gordon was telling me of his friend's garden - can't remember his name, John Mc..., quite an old gentleman. I met him on a couple of occasions in the North. He was hardly cold in the ground when his garden was built upon.
Paddy
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John McWhirter. Yes it was terrible but most plants were saved and sold at our annual picnic to start out travel fund.
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Yes, Mark, the very man.
You are in a better position than I to recall his arrangements for the plants in his garden. Bob gave me the gist of it - friends were to come and take first choice, then remainder were to be lifted and sold for the benefit of the local AGS branch. A great and practical idea.
Paddy
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Typical of dear John McWhirter to have made these sensible and thoughful arrangements... he was a person with a great many friends and admirers in the SRGC and is sorely missed.
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Stellan which plant are you showing us the inside?
The big group look convolute to me.
Here is the inside of G. lagodechianus
Ok, I show the pics again... 1a, 1b, 1c are from same place and had about the numbers last time. The photos are take in the forest at 2000 m between Khalkhal and Caspian Sea beside the mainroad. The pics are taken on the sea side of the mountains
The other pics, 2a, 2b, 2c, 2d are taken after same road but at 1000m and also in forest at sea side.
Does it help?
/Stellan
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I still think lagodechianus. I'll pass on the photos to people in England
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I still think lagodechianus. I'll pass on the photos to people in England
Maybe there are two different species. 1a-c looks different from 2 a-d and they grown at different altitude but less than 10 km between the places.
/Stellan