Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => General Forum => Topic started by: Kristl Walek on March 01, 2008, 03:22:36 AM
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This post has a bit of a history, and is tied to the comments I made in this forum about plants being happy in the crevice garden.
I belong to an on-line Clematis group, because of my particular interest in the viorna group of North American species. Clematis hirsutissima, from the mountaneous American west is not a member of that group, but it does happen to be my favorite Clematis species.
By way of introduction, I posted the following profile of it on that forum:
My favorite species...native to western North America usually growing in grasslands or open pine woods. I grow new (wild collected) clones each year for genetic variation, usually from western USA seed companies.
It's endearing hairness, especially in bud, has given way to one of it's common names (Hairy Clematis).
It tops out at about 25-30cm in my open, hot, crevice garden, growing happily among alpines in limestone. All my plants grow strictly upright; no sprawling or flopping.
The leaves are grey-green, pinnately divided from two to four times into narrow segments-I likely have some variety scottii among my clones (the varietal difference lies in the space between the leaf divisions).
My clones are all urn-shaped (although bell-shapes also occur) purple-blue on the outside, deeper reddish-purple interior. The graceful nodding stalk holding the flowers becomes maroon-coloured as the season progresses.
Flowering is ongoing from spring through summer.
Following my post, that thread was filled with comments from gardeners far and wide, nearly all saying that it is impossible to difficult for them to grow this species in the open garden. In particular, gardeners from eastern North America (where I live as well) noted that the plant melts and disappears as soon as the heat and humidity moves in each summer, and that they have rarely to never seen a flower. In my garden it blooms profusely from late spring to late summer, and has been long-lived.
I had *no idea* that this plant was difficult in cultivation before I joined that Clematis forum---each clone I raised from seed was simply stuck somewhere in the crevice garden---and they have all thrived on neglect.
After comparing notes of siting, soils, exposure, planting out, etc. I was left with two possibilities: I either had a particularly good genetic clone OR that my crevice garden provided it with just the right conditions for it to be happy.
So, it is presented here as my crevice garden success story.
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Kristl
Spectacular I agree with you that this is a very attractive clematis and not one I have seen before.
I hope the other forumists were able to copy your conditions and enjoy success.
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After seeing those pictures I will start looking for clematis seed next year.
A real beauty Kristl.
I should believe that people think that all clematis need the same conditions.
There is a similar case with Lilium bulbiferum. It is supposed to be difficult but here in Sweden it can be found as a garden escape - in old stone walls, road banks and similar sunny arid places.
Göte
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I just love species clematis, Krisl, and this one is just superb. I shall add it to my wish list. We have a specialist clematis nursery in County Durham, I shall have to pay them a visit I think....
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Gote hints at the main reason I think people fail with C. hirsutissima. They try to grow it like other clematis. I take "growing in the open garden" to be analogous (for most people) to growing it in a "border." If this is the case the soil is likely to be too rich, too organic, and with a far different pH than the soil in a crevice or rock garden.
Another fact was mentioned by Kristl in her original post--benign neglect. How often do we come to realize that many plants do better when we put them in a nice spot...AND LEAVE THEM ALONE. Most gardeners kill plants at some point in their run by being too attentive. (I've got a whole section of my website dedicated to killing plants--and it's one of the most highly visited of my pages). The great majority will do just fine without us once they're in the ground and established...
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With such attractive two-tone flowers and all that fur, it is surely worth growing, even if you have to build a crevice garden to make it happy!
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I'm not sure I will Maggi, with my very sandy soil, I reckon if I stick it between two rocks it will grow. I'm just doing more of my gravel bed over to more of a raised affair with rocks around, and hereabouts all I can find are sandstone rocks anyhow, so I reckon it will do well there, so long as it is in sun. It is such a beautiful plant! Can't wait to grow it from seed though, must get a plant lol. Ivycroft nursery listed in Plantfinder as having it, so I reckon I'll see if I can get it mail order from them. Anyone know anything about them?
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Chris, I think Ivycroft is one of the nurseries the Galanthophiles source from, so they may be able to tell us more?.........
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Ah ok. Thanks for the tip Maggi. I've written to them so we'll see how I do....
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Chris and Carlo,
Actually, when I used the term "open garden" I meant it in an extremely general way (not "in the border"---because the folks who wrote about it's difficulty had it in "alpine conditions" or "well-drained mean", very-sandy, or in troughs, finally, out of desperation. And still no go.
One member wrote that it was, in fact thriving in one Canadian prairie garden that he was aware of, in heavy, clay. Many European members had never grown it outside of a pot.
And my opinion is that it would like very good, to heavy (with the emphasis on moisture-retentive) soil at it's roots (the cool deep root run of the crevice garden is surely a plus), and it's head in full sun.
And Chris, don't be too disappointed if your grown plant doesn't thrive---I am also a believer in planting this species out as a small seedling. RMRP, Alplains and myself all carry the seed.
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Thanks for the help Kristl, I'll try to get a plant here first, but if I cannot, I'll order seed from you. Getting old in the tooth, need to get plants for instant gratification..... if possible.
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very very nice! It would go very well with my black flowered Pulsatilla
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Will it flower at the same time though Mark?
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pass.
Mike Smith has three year old plants from seed
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Have they flowered yet?
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I have strong, well-grown plants from seed, at least 12 years old, never had a flower yet. >:( >:( >:(
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strong, well-grown plants from seed, at least 12 years old, never had a flower yet.
Ooh, err! :P That's a long time for a little-ish plant to take to flower, isn't it?
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Kristl,
Lovely little Clematis. One I haven't come across before (but will now have to find of course). I am a bit of a Clematis addict!! ::) I only have 65+ different Clematis varieties (not counting duplicates) in my little suburban garden!! :o Amongst my many other plant addictions of course. ;D
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Chris his plants havent flowered yet
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Thanks Mark. I suspected so.... I reckon I'll try to get the plant at least, that way I may have a chance of seeing it flower in my lifetime :)
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Lesley, et al,
I have heard from others about waiting forever for their C. hirsutissima seedlings to flower---which I find utterly baffling--I have at least a dozen little colonies of them in the crevice garden (as well as the subspecies scottii), none of which ever took more that 4 years to bloom (most the 3rd year).
I always plant them out as tiny first year seedlings---and then ignore them. They often sit for a while in the beginning (working on that root system), and once they reach flowering stage, they bloom almost a full 6 weeks or more late spring to mid summer.
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Kristl, expect a seed order from Aberdeen!!
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Me too, the guy who has it has not replied yet.... maybe he's busy with his snowdrops
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I had a very pleasant time looking through Kristl's list today.... perhaps no surprise that the order is for more than just this clematis seed!! ::) I was quite restrained though how I managed it I don't know! ???
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Hello.
And a seed order was sent from Sweden 5 minutes ago.
Ulla
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So, Ulla, we are all of the same mind! Next will be the experiment to see who can get a plant to flower the soonest, after the varying times we have heard. I would have thought that 3- 4 years is correct, but one of us may manage in three.... photos to the Forum, of course!! 8)
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And a seed order was sent from Sweden 5 minutes ago.
Looking at the time, this must be what they call "late night shopping" ::) ;)
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Kristl would you say in what conditions you grow it please. Mine, I have 3, are in large sunny troughs in a general sort of potting mix with sharp drainage. They probably are too dry through most of the year. In the same troughs plants like Erinacea anthyllis and Tropaeolum polyphyllum do well and flower superbly.
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Lesley, from what I have gathered from the long discussions in my Clematis group, and from knowing where the plant grows in the wild; I would suggest that you move it from the trough to somewhere where it will have a DEEP, cool root run and where the roots will never dry. A heavier, richer, clay-based soil. Dry only at the crown, full sun.
Once established, it will start spreading outwards from the crown. The picture I posted in this thread started as a single seedling, but has expanded dramatically over the years---moving outward along one rock crevice where it is rather tightly wedged. But, boy is the plant ever happy!!!!
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I'll try that then. The troughs are quite deep, about 60cms but they do get dehydrated in the summer, mainly because the other things, such as the erinacea, don't ever need to be watered so I don't bother. The clematis plants all have about 8 stems, so they have grown quite well, and each year there SEEMS to be a bud at the top of the stem, quite round and firm but then it gradually opens to be more leaves. I'll move at least one and give it more water. Thanks.
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Yippee! Just got a great package of seed from Kristl.......well, you didn't think I was ONLY going to order the Clematis, did you?........ So, the task now is to get Clematis hirsutissima growing and flowering as well as Kristl's does, in a crevice in Aberdeen! 8)
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Today is a "Clematis lining-up" day at my end--and as soon as my camera battery charges up, I will explain what that means....and will also give you a pictorial of my preferred method of germinating this genus.
There are 8-10 flats of C. hirsutissima at the moment (just past the radicle-emergence stage), somewhere under 1,000 plants. And don't even ask---the real estate sign if getting stuck in the snow mountain early next week, and here I am propagating thousands of plants....perhaps my last thrust at staying connected with this garden?
With the over 50cm of snow received last weekend, we are now close to breaking the historical seasonal record of 444cm- just around 410cm has fallen this far, and more keeps coming...and coming....and coming....
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Just suddenly thought, if I had enough money, that's what I should do, buy Kristl's place then I'd be sure to get a flowering C. hirsutissima ;D. Hubby would love all that snow too. But I have taken the easy option Maggi, Sue managed to locate one for me (and herself of course :)) at Hythe Alpines, so I'm getting a plant and its going to be planted between rocks beside my pond, which should mean, even with my sandy soil, that there is moisture at the roots all the time. Reckon I have a 50-50 chance of flowering it.
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I brought a C. hirsutissima from the Czech Republic last week and was avidly looking for information about how to grow it.
Google lead me to this thread, prooving once again what an incomparable source of useful information this Forum is !!!!
I'm a happy chappy ! 8)
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I grow Clematis hirsutissima in my crevice, in pure sand. I have sown the plants with seed from Kristl. It is now the third year that they are to flower. They stand in a southwesterly direction.
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Many thanks Ulla ! :-*
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The Clematis Society used to have a stand at the Harrogate Show. They sell packets of seed, many of which are desirable species.
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I too have just acquired a plant and googling it, I ended up on my favourite website - the SRGC forum! Thank you Kristl for the great pictures and very valuable information. I shall give it a place with a deep, loamy root run.