Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Crocus => Topic started by: Paul T on February 28, 2008, 09:42:59 PM
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Howdy All,
In the Feb thread people had expressed interest in seeing my new Crocus (and retic Iris and Narc bulbocodiums of course) garden. I posted pics at the time of the "before" shots. Rather than having this strung out over multiple months and never being able to find previous pics to compare I thought I'd start a specific thread to show the garden as it progressed. I hope no-one minds me doing it this way, but I figure it is easy enough for those who aren't interested to just ignore it completely this way!! ;D
OK, here's the previous shots I posted that were taken a month ago of the area of wild and woolly pots where the garden will be....
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And these shots were taken on Monday of this week, showing the cleared area, basic sleeper frame, and the concrete drive strip for the driveway running underneath!!
Currently I have been madly recycling potting soil from old dead pots (well overdue to sort through a lot of old pots where thigns have died in our dreadful drought the last few years) and from repotting Narcissus etc. I am avoiding using potting mix that came from Crocus, retic iris or hoop pietticoat daff pots, so that I don't get any accidental volunteers. I figure that anything else which pops up unexpectedly will be easily seen to be from the old mix and won't be a problem. If I re-used the Crocus mix here I'd never know if a Crocus was supposed to be there or not, well at least until I lifted the baskets they'll be planted in to check. At the moment the recycled mix sits at about 2/3 of the height of the sleeper, which saves me a lot of money I would have needed to buy that much fresh soil. It mightn't be ideal to recycle, but it is the only way I can do it at the moment. I will be buying a bunch of sand to mix with it to improve drainage as well.
I'll keep posting pics as things progress.
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And I thought I had better add a picture of what I was trying to describe before......
The white fabric is Geotextile fabric and is supposed to help restrict root penetration. I am trying to limit the amount of root invasion from the Prunus mume pendula next to the garden. I don't expect it to keep them all out, but I am hoping it will help.
As you can see, that's a lot of recycled potting mix! ;D The garden dimensions are appromixately 2.4m x 1.8m
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That's coming along well, Paul. Why are there "legs" of wood sticking out beyond the oblong???
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I thought that also.
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Because I haven't got the chainsaw out as yet and cut them off!! ::) The wood isn't actually bolted together as yet either (if you want to get technical!! ;D). I have to do all this before it gets much further along I know, but just hadn't done it "yet".
I'll make sure to rectify this before the next pictures are posted!! :o 8)
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I figure it is easy enough for those who aren't interested to just ignore it completely this way!! ;D
And easy enough for those who ARE interested to find it! ;)
Waiting for the next chapter, thanks!
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Very interesting to see your operation developping Paul !
You've been a very busy boy - it looks very promising too - it will be great to plant up empty area like that... ;)
Obviously, we look forward to the next episode.
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Paul, now I have a much clearer idea of your raised bulbbed devoted to Crocus ,than your description over the phone . I have a raised frame too , about the same size ,but double the height of yours [much kinder to an acheing lower back], but instead of Crocus , I grow my oncocyclus and Arilbred Irises in it .In prolonged rainy periods in winter and summer, I can cover the bed with clear, corrugated polycarbonate sheeting.
Maybe for those Crocus species that enjoy cooler conditions & some moisture during their rest period , make provisions in one corner of your bed-like Cr.vallicola and banaticus-which are just starting to flower here. however I grow these species with my dwarf Rhododendron species . How do the alpine Rhodos . behave in the Canberra climate?
Ciao Otto.
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Great work, Paul - now you have to hurry with planting the Crocus as Otto's plants already start growing!
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Otto,
The "front" left hand corner (front being furthest from the garage) will have some summer shade from the Prunus mume pendula, and so will be used for those which prefer a bit more shade and moisture. I don't know vallicola, but grow C. banaticus and cvijicii which should like that area. plenty of sun in winter when the leaves have fallen, then the Prunus is cut right back to a tiny ball at the top and starts its droppers again for the following season. By the time it gets to full heat they have wept back down to the ground again, providing that shade. The middle of the bed will be higher as well, and will be used to accomodate soem deeper growing bulbs like our native Calostemma which should like similar conditions to the Crocus but want their bulbs down deeper. It'll be interesting to see how it all works out.... I don't expect it to look at all "natural", but hopefully the arrangement won't be too jarring to the senses. Everything small will be planted in mesh baskets so they are retrievable for sharing, and hopefully allow me to keep everything separate from everything else.
I haven't tried many of the dwarf Rhodos, at least not those really dwarf ones which I think you're talking about. Can't exactly buy them around here so it isn't something I've had to contend with. I love the dwarf Rhodos I see pictures or, and try to buy smaller types when I can find them, but I think you're talking the species and soforth aren't you?
Thomas,
Yes, I am concerned about the stored Crocus at the moment as well. I am about to start potting them into their mesh baskets to give them a start with moisture, but realise they can't be kept that way for too long. My moisture loving species as mentioned above are in my shadehouse currently, so they're all potted and safe. My big worry is actually pulchellus, which I would imagine is probably shooting in it's bag right now, waiting for soil. That is where potting them into their mesh baskets now in preparation for planting into the garden later, will give me another week or so to complete it without damaging the dry bulbs any further. I just have to get the energy and the sand purchased to get the rest of it set up, then take a trip out to my sister's farm to get some more mossy rocks to complete the banking arrangements within the garden.
AND I have seeds to send off to people of the Cyclamens etc. So much to do and so little energy to do it!! ::) :P
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And on checking the stored Crocus pulchellus this evening in their paper bag...... there are little white shoots everywhere. They're going into their basket tomorrow to get them started, then I have to get the garden finished!! ::)
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Wow! that is looking nice! Keep on the good work!
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Those who were eagle eyed amongst the viewers should now be pleased to know that the sleepers are now bolted and the "legs" have been removed. It is now a large solid rectangle, 3/4 filled with recycled potting mix. Tomorrow hopefully will be a half cubic metre of sand.
The quest continues......
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Ah Paul,
I don't know. Look back to the first photographs you posted above; look with gently and appreciative eyes and ask yourself, 'Will my garden really be improved by the removal of those two large white buckets of water?"
Personally, I think you will have lost something, an artistic horticultural arrangement of planting containers of pristine plastic.
Perhaps you should reconsider this development. After all anyone can grow crocus but to grow two plastic buckets of such beauty is a rare achievement not to be dismissed lightly.
Paddy
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Don't jump ahead of him, Paddy, the buckets are still there and the crocus bed is framed!! ::) 8) ;)
I am surprised that the clutter in an Australian garden can bear quite so much resemblance to our own little patch of paradise, here in Aberdeen......must just be a knack we've got..... ;)
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Paddy,
Those two big white buckets of water are actually tropical waterlilies. It allows me to move them under the eaves during winter, so that they survive the cold. So they aren't just "water" they're a means of having tropical blue waterlilies that otherwise wouldn't be growable. For your enjoyment I have attached a pic below of said blue tropical waterlily (well it is actually more purple). The other bucket in the picture has a white version in it..... then there are two more buckets beside the house which have others in them as well (but they aren't in the picture, so I am not posting pics of them! :P)
Maggi,
The term "clutter" is putting it nicely. "Junk" is perhaps more accurate.
Sand is now here, hoping to unload from the back of my truck tonight. I'll post pics after I have recovered sufficiently from having moved half a cubic metre of sand with muscles that aren't used to it...... so maybe next week or the week after!! ;D
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You are very cruel, Paddy. Are you a teacher??? ;D
Don't forget, the title of this topic is EVOLUTION of a Crocus Garden!
The waterlily (and the picture) is stunning, Paul. It would deserve a nicer "pot". If you weren't so far, I would send you a wooden bucket. :)
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Nope, not a teacher, although there are some regular posters here who are. Besides, I prefer eccentric as a description of me!! :o ;D
Sand is now unloaded and mixed in with the recycled garden soil. Potting of the Crocus into their mesh baskets can now commence, as the lower outer layer can be planted at this stage and I can build up the inner contours as I progress with the potting. A big relief to finally be this far. :D
P.S. Remember that evolution is usually a very slow process, so if I stick to the whole evolution them, then perhaps I should be next posting in a couple of generations to show how it has evolved? Not sure you'd want to wait 90 years or so (I think that 30 years is about a generation isn't it?) rather than the couple of weeks!! :P ;)
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Katherine,
Yes, I am a teacher. How did you guess?
But I am only teasing Paul. Old buckets are an indespensible part of gardens, great to hold a big plant until a place is found for them. They have the advantage of large capacity, handles which ease transport and they are cheap, usually recycled. Of course, they also make excellent planters for water lilies as Paul has displayed.
The evolution of a garden or even a garden is bed is a slow process and the very best gardens are done by slow process. My wife always insisted that the greatest danger to good gardening was having the money to do it all at once. Doing things the fast way often leads to mistakes made in haste and regretted at leisure.
So, Paul, we shall await further developments.
Paddy
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My last response was due to me misreading the previous posting.... I thought that Kathrine was asking me whether I was a teacher, not you Paddy. ::) I was obviously having a senior moment and read Paddy as Paul..... hey, they both start with P after all!! I think I'll go and lie down now, I obviously did too much today and my mind is going!!
Those of you who just muttered that my mind has been gone all along are NOT being nice!! ;D
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Katherine,
Yes, I am a teacher. How did you guess?
OK, not guessed, I remembered some of your posts... ;D ;D
And I know you were teasing. Me too. ;)
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This is not exactly the right topic but..
Paul,
How big are your buckets? Do you use the same bucket in summer or does it go into a pond?
Which kind is the blue one? What winter temperature is needed? Summer?
Sorry for being an inquisitor but I try to grow a number of the hardy ones and a blue would be a nice addition.
Göte
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I have a good idea following on from Paddy's comment. We all cant hve picture perfect gardens and must have a rough area out of view. Why dont we all be honest and show a photo of our collection of pots? I'll get the ball rolling tomorrow
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a rough area out of view
HA! That's a good one... if our rough areas were OUT of view, that would be fantastic! ::)
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Gote,
They're 20 litre buckets. I can measure the physical dimensions if you'd like? They are in there permanently, year around, but they are actually potted within the bucket, not planted directly. It allwos me to periodically replace the water as it does get rather green at times because of the amount of light and warmth that builds up. Another good thing with these buckets is that the water tends to heat up quicker during spring, so it brings the tropicals out of dormancy a bit quicker. If they had to rely on our normal pond water then it would be too cold to start them growing until very late in the season.
Mark,
That isn't the roughest area of pots in my garden, believe me. If ONLY!! ::)
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Thank you Paul,
I can figure out the size myself. I do the same in one place where I have a 'Pygmea Rubra' in a 6" pot in the bottom of a green clay pot and a 'Helvola' in a 5" pan in a smaller blue clay pot. I also have a formal pond where I have pots standing on the bottom. All these must be empty during winter since otherwise the ice would crack them. During the winter the plants are at frost free depth in a natural pond.
I assume tropical ones could grow in a big pot in a Swedish summer but what winter temperature would be needed? and are they dormant?
I cannot help posting these pictures even if it is the wrong topic.
The green pot, The green pot again, Chromatella in the natural pond, the formal pond (with white chair legs >:()
I wonder who puts all those ugly wheelbarrows, dirty spades, piles of weeds, garden chairs and whatnots in my pictures. ??? They are not there when i look through the camera. Sigh!
Göte
PS
I wish I had an area that was not rough!! :-[
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Gote,
That first pic looks pretty tranquil to me!! Better view from your place than mine, that is for sure!! Loev the waterlily pics, particularly that green pot which suits it so well.
The tropicals are dormant in winter, but their rhizomes aren't adapted for as cold a temperature while dormant as the normal Nymphaeas. Mine definitely never freeze in their pots, but I put them against the house to keep them warmer. Unless in deep shade we don't get permanent ice on water in winter here, just freezing each night and defrosting sometime during the day..... not as cold as you guys obviously. The big problem I think with the tropicals in cold climates is that it takes so long for the water to warm up sufficiently in ponds etc to stimulate new growth..... this is where the buckets work out well because they absorb heat much more easily, but don't release it all at night, so at some point the water is warm enough to trigger growth on the tropicals, always much later than the other more cold hardy ones.
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Exquisite lilies! You will get no sympathy for ANY mess, Göte, as long as you have that fantastic view to enjoy! Who would see a mess when there is an outlook like that?!!
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Paul,
Tank you for the kind words.
I take it that they would survive dormant in temperatures around 4 °C
To get warmer water in the spring would not be too difficult even in my climate - provided that I keep them in the bucket. I could even install some cheap warmer.
This is encouraging. I will be on the lookout for some.
Maggie,
If I sit looking at the view all day and not at the mess nothing would be done.
Göte
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Howdy All,
Haven't even turned the computer on in the last couple of days. Was away most of yesterday but between yesterday evening and this morning I got a fair bit more done on the Crocus garden. The internal "ring" will be a higher level of soild, held back by mossy rocks (also called here "bush rocks") which are lichen encrusted.... collected from my father and sister's property yesterday while we were out there. This higher area is not yet complete, which is why there is a big basin in the centre at the moment. I am placing rocks on top of the slppers to try to soften the sharp lines of the sleepers, as I found them very obvious when standing back and looking at the garden. They can't completely disguise that the garden is straight edged, but they do make it a little less square I think. There is also a small enclosure of rocks at the back corner which contains a dwarf Japanese maple ('Brandt's Dwarf' in case anyone is interested).
The sun wasn't exactly perfect to show the garden, but it gives you the idea. The black rings are the pots that have so far been placed into the garden, and once everything is put in I will put a layer of sand over the top I think, which will help insulate the bulbs but not be a problem in the future like a layer of gravel will be. I am not intending to use an organic mulch as the blackbirds are being particularly aggressive at the moment and I don't want the new garden to be attacked. of course the local cats will probably all think it is a gift to them and they'll try to make their deposits. ::)
Anyway, here's the latest pictures.....
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Assuming the lower level pots are full of crocuses, what will you put in the upper level Paul?
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looking very good Paul. I'm off to a quarry soon to look for large flat stones to make terraces in the back garden for all my Crocus and small Narcissus. It might be flanked on the south side by a rockery/crevice. That's what's in the head anyway
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Lesley,
There will be approximately 80 pots all up in the lower level once everything is potted and placed. You can just see that there are rings where I have marked out those positions that pots haven't actually been put in as yet. I expect another 30 or so perhaps in the top, but not entirely sure of the arrangement as yet. The lower level isn't all Crocus. At this stage the majority that are in are crocus, but there is a group of a half dozen or so at each end that are reticulata iris, plus one histrioides 'April Tears' pot in the centre of the closest to the path. I wanted to break it up a little so there isn't all Crocus in one area and all retics in another etc, but I also didn't want to have them mixed too heavily.
There are also maybe a half dozen pots that will be on the upper level that will be mostly Crocus with a couple of retics. The rest of the upper level will be hoop petticoat daff varieties. I thought they'd make a nice division above and below, but it is still possible that I'll sneak a couple of the daffs into the lower level. I don't want it too "formal" in that regard, but I also don't want it too mixed up as there isn't the space. In Thomas' rock garden there is the space to have them mixed in together as you can view along the garden and see a mixture of different things, whereas mine is too small an area to feel comfortable doing that in a fully mixed setup. By mixed I still mean everything is planted in their own basket, but that the baskets are mixed between types. Does that all make sense?
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Paul, your crocus bed look better and better!!
But don't forget to write the plants names also on the baskets,
in case the labels are removed!!!
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Looks very promising Paul - you've been a hard working man ! ;D
Can't wait (and I bet you can't either) to see the pix of the first flowers emerging next autumn (ours that is... ;D)
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Luc,
I'm hoping first flowers will be in a matter or weeks here!!
Thomas,
Not entirely sure how I'd do it on these baskets. The labels will end up being buried once the sand layer is in place, so unless there are human rascals I shouldn't have a problem with that. I am hoping as well that once they're in place I will draw up a map for that purpose as well, so I can work out what is what if anything happens. Now I'm feeling paranoid of course! I hadn't been until you mentioned it!! ::) ;D
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Paul forget the map-drawing-plan - I tried it, but there are always replantings in summer,
which you can't update completely on your map. I have written the plants name with a
white edding painter on my baskets. No more confusion with lost labels 8)
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Thomas,
You're right. I have paint pens, so that isn't a problem. I guess I could pull those that I had already planted out, so that I could label them then put them back in. Might be a plan for tomorrow morning.
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In Sweden it is an old woodworking tradition to decorate simple things with a red hot iron. For that reason we can buy electric "pens" that will trace a dark indelible line on wood. It so happens that they are excellent for writing on plastic too. I sometimes mark my pots in this way. Even a laptop can also be marked indelibly. These pens may be unavailable in Australia or Scotland (It would be easy to send one within the EU) but the smallest type of soldering iron will do the job as well.
Göte
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Gote,
There are also etching machines for putting details on good around the house, but I don't have one of those myself. They'd work out fine. The other possibility would be to actually wire the label to the pot, but it would make it hard to lift the label to find out what the plant actually is. A second label could be properly attached I guess, but that would be becoming unwieldy I think. The paint pens "should" work out OK, at least I'll test them this year to find out won't I? ::) All those baskets that were already planted have been lifted and replanted this morning. All new pottings in the baskets will be labelled on the basket as well. Thanks Thomas!!
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You're a very dedicated pupil Paul, I'm sure you will do ok ! ;D
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Well done, Paul - you will see this saves you lots of work in the next years!
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Yeeesssss, but if I'd known about it BEFORE I started planting the baskets..... ;D :P
Thanks for the advice. Always nice to learn from the experienced masters (and I do not mean that at all sarcastically... you have experience in these sorts of things that I don't have!! That's valuable!) 8)
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Update on the garden.......
All bagged Crocus are now potted into their baskets and in place, as are all reticulata iris. First couple of Narcissus bulbocodium (including a tall form that can grow well more than a foot tall) have been added, plus a couple of other little unusual bits and pieces (Spiloxene linearis for example) have been added. The bottom level is now pretty much complete, except for the most shaded corner at the front left under the weeping Apricot. There, I am going to add a couple of more moisture liking things like certain Crocus, some Anemone blanda, and Iris 'Katharine Hodgkin' etc.
Now, can someone please remind me exactly which Crocus are the more moisture requiring? I have in mind banaticus, cvijicii, longiflorus (or is it nudiflorus), and I think Thomas mentioned that asuminae likes some summer moisture didn't he? The corner that they're all in I can give some extra water to in summer and it will get some shade which will help, and that shouldn't be a bother to anything else in there that needs the drier summer.
Second level will be composed mainly of Narcissus bulbocodium and miniature narcissus species etc, although there are a couple of Crocus and Iris retics in there as well. The small third level will probably have some Australian native Calostemma purpurea which will like the extra depth and pull themselves down deep. This extra depth should mean they flower for me, whereas at the moment in their pots they aren't exactly fantastic in that regard! ::)
So that is the update. No pics at this stage as too knackered right now to go and take any. Horticultural Society meeting tonight as well so have to have dinner and get ready etc. So many gardening things, so little time (and still too darn hot!!) Friday is forecast 24'c which will be heavenly after the last week of 30'C plus. Better than Adelaide that have had 15 days straight above 35'C (I thought it was only 13, but it is 15). Nasty!!!!
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Howdy again All,
The penthouse went onto the Crocus garden this morning, so I've taken pics. I'll try to take some pics this afternoon in a different light as well, to show how the layout looks. I'm not sure you can still really see the Acer planted in the back corner. I've also taken pics from the right and left sides if anyone is interested in me posting them?
The penthouse level won't have any baskets in it. At the moment it has some Calostemma purpurea and a Lycoris elsae planted in there to see how they go. I'm hoping the root run depth will allow the Lyrcoris to keep it's roots moist down deep despite the summer "dry", and I think it should work out OK. If it flowers successfully it'll be spectacular there and there should be a bit of afternoon summer shade which it should like, while still getting plenty of sun in the morning etc.
As you can see the lower level has started to be covered over with sand in part, and once I got and get a couple more bags the rest will be done. I still have a couple of spots in the front shaded corner for those Crocus which will take extra moisture once I have confirmed which ones they are. 3 different Anemone blanda are now planted there in their baskets. Space for about a half dozen more things on the lower level and that's full, then to complete the middle layer.
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It is going to be very nice, Paul. Wouldn't it be easier to start at the top level? ???
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From a filling point of view it was much easier to go from the bottom up. Once you work out the level of the bottom step you can then make the second step and partially fill it in. As you plant the baskets into the bottom though you are digging out a lot of the base level, so it goes into the second level to fill it up. I didn't acutally add any extra soil other than a bag of recycled potting mix to get from the last pictures to the one I just took.... as I dug the holes for each basket those contents wer put up into the next level. If I'd built the whole thing complete thn started planting from the top level down I would have ended up with enough soil to probably fill a third of another garden. The baskets I am planting I am actually filling with fresh potting mix and sand (half and half) so that there is no danger of any other bulbs being in the basket with them. That is why every time I add a new basket there is the same volume of soil from the garden being displaced.
I'm not sure I have described that well enough to understand?
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Right so seems to me the best way too, Paul.
Wouldn't it be easier to start at the top level? ???
As you see Kathrine, older people have learned to think first before starting work. :D :D :D
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Luit,
I'm hoping you're just joking and not actually putting down Kathrine as a "younger person"? ;) You see, from her profile Kathrine is 37, and I'm only 38. I'd hardly call that qualifying me for an "older" tag? Besides which, in my case it was probably a sheer accident! Normally I don't plan ahead very well!! ;D I probably would have gone ahead and built the whole thing first before planting anything, except that I had Crocus that were well and truly waiting to be planted. As soon as I put the first basket in the ground I could see how I was going to have to work it. As it is I am still going to have a bit of soil left over at the end I think, as I have everything pretty much levelled now, but still have to put the baskets in the second level. The top level (which I'm referring to as the Penthouse as it has the best views etc. ;D) can absord some of that extra soil, but I am guessing I'll be adding the leftovers soil somewhere else in the garden, or maybe into a polystyrene box where I am planting something specific so I know if any volunteers come up in the recycled mix. I'm "trying" to keep everything pure, but we'll see if it all works out. ::)
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I'm not sure I have described that well enough to understand?
Absolutely clear, Paul. :)
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Ooooh Paul I am very sorry :-[ :-[ :-[, maybe I was more talking from the view of myself
but you always sound so wise that I thought you must at least be as old as I am.
Next time I'll have a look at the avatars first. :-X
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Luit,
I'm obviously good at faking maturity then!! ;D Obviously you haven't read any of my jokes.... they're all pretty immature!! :o :P
Don't be concerned at all, I'm not offended or anything (I was concerned by all those embarrassed faces lines up in your message, so I thought I had better check). I got an extra chuckle out of it when I realised the similarity between Kathrine and my ages. 8)
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I got an extra chuckle out of it when I realised the similarity between Kathrine and my ages. 8)
But I started gardening about 5 years ago, so, from this point of view you are much older, I think. ;D
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Kathrine,
Yeah, from that point of view I definitely am. I think I was around 6 when I started, with a little corner in my Dad's veggie garden out on our farm. I didn't grow any vegetables but rather perennials and annual flowers. By the time I was an early teenager I had a collection of more than 50 different types of ferns, and assorted phases since then. At 30+ you were a later gardening starter, but it is never too late where gardening is concerned!!!! And we can all pick up so much knowledge up here in the SRGC forums.... so many wonderfully knowledgable people we can learn from. I know I'm seeing and learning new stuff every time I'm up here.
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Howdy All,
Pics taken this morning of the new crocus garden. First bud is up, at the front of the second level (almost dead centre in the pic) but not really visible in this shot. I've posted a pic of the bud in the March Crocus thread.
The penthouse level will remain sand-free for the moment, as I am unsure whether I will put anything else in there. The clump of longer leaves is Moraea polystachya, a dwarf form that only grows to a foot or so tall. I have put a couple of different things here and there in the garden to give some small splashes of different plants in there. The dark patch on the bottom level is where a single pot still need to be placed, so I haven't yet covered it with the sand "mulch". I have shots from both sides if people are interested in seeing them.
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It's worked out very well Paul
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I think so. I guess we'll see after this year's growth season and how everything flowers next year. I must get out to the property and get some more small rocks to fit around the edges to soften it somewhat.
Thanks for the response.
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I have to agree with David, Paul ! It does look very promising and you're right, some scattered rock will make it look even more attractive - but so will the flowers !!! ;D
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Paul,
well done - I'm anxious to see your first crocus pix ;)
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Armin,
My first Crocus pics were posting in the Crocus thread and ID'd as speciosus rather than the abantensis that the seeds were purchased as. Will still look nice in the future when they fill out more and give a good flowering. Nice and early which isn't a bad thing. ;D
First rain in a month here at the moment, so that might stimulate a few things too!!
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A Crocus pulchellus appeared in the new garden this morning, despite carefully checking yesterday for any signs of buds anywhere. They really do pop up out of nothing.
The black at the base of the flower is an ant that was ecstatically rummaging around at the bottom of the flower, I assume for nectar.
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Howdy All,
The third crocus to flower in my new garden is now open. Crocus mathewii is just glorious! That wonderfully dark throat set off by the stamens and style, all set against the pure white. 8) The other one to flower for me in the garden so far was C. pallassii ssp dispathacea. Not sure whether I should be posting this here or in the April thread, but thought I'd post it here for a bit of variety. Not sure if people are interested in the closeup or not, but I've posted it as well to show the details. :D The 3 white dots on the "upper" petal in the picture are due to rain overnight on the unopened bud..... I think there must still be some drops sitting on the outside of the petal, focusing light through them to those bright points.
Lesley, I have no idea whether this is my older bulb from a couple of years ago of mathewii, or whether it is one of the two from this year. It hasn't flowered for me until now, so maybe it is the older bulb, which had nearly doubled in size from when I got it and positively dwarfed the new ones I got this year. Maybe the spideriness of yours is just that they're still to settle in? Anyway, very very pleased that this is flowering for me to finally see in person, as it is one I've wanted to see ever since I saw Thomas' a couple of years ago. :o
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Anyway, very very pleased that this is flowering for me to finally see in person, as it is one I've wanted to see ever since I saw Thomas' a couple of years ago. :o
Next you will tell me, that I'm responsible for the Crocus virus that has catched you ;D
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Thomas,
No, but you're not exactly hindering it's spread either you know!!?? I already collected Crocus before I "met" you here, but the virus has become much worse since meeting you!! ;D
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C. matherwii really is out of this world isn't it ??? :o
Unique flower if you ask me - must get hold of it somehow... ::)
As to Thomas' remark.... sorry Thomas but you're as guilty as hell for spreading the C. virus (the benign variant ;)) around the world !!!
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Quote from Luc
"As to Thomas' remark.... sorry Thomas but you're as guilty as hell for spreading the C. virus (the benine variant Wink) around the world !!!"
I'd have to agree with you whole heartedly Luc ,(and Paul),--it's even reach down here to the bottom of the South Island NZ where i have quite a few baby Hubi's in foliage at the moment ,(and others still tucked up nicely in bed until spring),awaiting their first flowering next year maybe.
Lovely pics all.
Cheers Dave.
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OK, OK - I confess: I'm guilty
AND I'M PROUD OF IT!!! ;D
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I'm sure that with a good lawyer, you might find the jury to be most clement Thomas ;D
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Luc,
Yeah, mathewii is definitely very special. I am so hoping to get more flowers from it, as I only got such a short viewing of that flower before it got trashed by the hail. Of course, unfortunately even if it does send up more I will only really see them on the weekend as they're not open when I leave for work at 6:45am and they're closing up by the time I get home from work at around 4pm. I have a new bulb of asuminae that I bought this year (third attempt at growing it) and it currently has a flower on it that by the looks of it opened today....... I think I'm going to have to train Yvonne (my wife) to use the camera so she can get a photo for me tomorrow. I'm paranoid that the flower will be over by the weekend and I'll have missed it. I just want to make sure it actually is that species. I also have longiflorus out in the back yard, but the same thing regarding flowers closed when I'm home applies. ::)
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Paul one of the great things about retiring is that you get to see all the lovely things you missed when at work.I had a short spell when I worked near home and could pop home at lunch and see them.They never seem to flower at weekend. Now I just see them every day.
Your mathewii is lovely and one of my favorite autumn crocus. it is always a problem with me as we seem to have lots of dull days around the time these are in flower and it is difficult to get them to open.
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Thomas,
the Crocophilia virus must be German in origin because I caught it off Otto! ;D
cheers
fermi
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Fermi , Paul & Hubi, do not blame me for spreading the virus [even such a pleasant one], I caught it 55 years ago, reading,and immensly enjoying them, the books written by
E.A. Bowles.
Ciao Otto.
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Howdy All,
An update on the crocus garden (in case anyone is interested?).....
A couple of pics of the garden (same positions as usual, for comparison purposes). Flowering at the moment are the Iris histrio as shown elsewhere, the crocus shown below, some hoop petticoat type daffs and continuing flowering of the Moraea polystachya which has been flowering for a couple of months now. I did note today that there is another corcus bud that should open the next sunny day, probably a C. sieberi by the look of it (without digging around to find the tag)/
And a couple of pics of what I am growing as Crocus laevigatus var fontenayii, which isn't much different to the other laevigatus that I grow. After this years settling in, and hopefully improvement of bulb flowering, I am hoping to compare them properly next year to see if there really are any differences between those that I grow as the species or the variety. I have suspicions there aren't much in the way of differences. ::) I would like to know one way or the other eventually, so I can name them all the same if that is what they are. ;D
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An update on the crocus garden (in case anyone is interested?).....
Yes, we are interested. Thank you for keeping alive this thread!
And I envy you for your "winter" down there. ;D
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Kathrine,
Not much of a winter here yet.... warmest June in 51 years. Barely had much frost at all yet, the tree dahlias are still in full growth and they should have been gone 6 to 8 weeks ago most years. Thigns are flowering out of season (the Eranthis are 6 weeks early) while other things are right on time. Very, very strange. Still, I love this time of year as we get Galanthus, Eranthis, hoop petticoat daffs, Crocus etc..... all good!! ;D
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Keep the pictures coming Paul, I'm living this Crocus garden with you!
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Hi Paul...
I found this thread today.. fun to follow the process,, good job :)
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Thanks David and Magnar. Will post another update when there is a bit more movement on the flower front.
(Edited 3 July to fix typo)
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An update on the crocus garden (in case anyone is interested?).....
Of course we're interested, Paul - Great job!!!
Any Neustadt crocus ready to flower?
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Thomas,
Thanks. Nothing up to flowering size from your seed (which I assume is what you're meaning) as yet, but the last couple of years have been less than ideal due to early heat and ill health (mine, not the crocuses). There could easily be some surprises though, as you just never know when a particular seedling is going to outdistance it's brethren and flower earlier than you expected. None of the seedlings are in the crocus garden itself, they're all being looked after in pots as yet.
There was another Crocus in flower in the garden today, but it was too darn cold and windy to go out there and photograph it. Only a single shoot above ground as yet, so it is either the only one that is flowering sized this year or else it is a little confused and has got ahead of it's mates with it in the basket. I think by the look of it it was C. sieberi 'Violet Queen' or something like that.... maybe 'Firefly'? Didn't go and check the tag obviously enough, just noted it as I was muscling my way against the wind today out to the car. I'm assuming the garden will all actually still BE there tomorrow when the wind finally dies down. ::)
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Great stuff Paul !
Very interesting to see how your new baby develops ;D
I'll be looking forward to your further efforst !
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Will post another update when there is a bit more movement on the lower front.
Nothing gastric here I hope ;D
Do keep us posted, news and pics always appreciated. IF we ever get moved I want to plant more of my crocus out in the new garden so this is an especially interesting thread. Thanks Paul.
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Tony, is the move imminent or just a 'would like to'?
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On the market - but thats not a good place right now :( so not imminent despite our wishes.
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Been there, done that, some 15 years ago when the market last went 'pear shaped'. Got a job in Hampshire with the intention of moving but house prices here in Devon fell apart. The move never took place and I spent 8 years commuting at week-ends and living on my own in a flat in Hampshire during the week. Brought early retirement a few years earlier than we had planned- money not as good but hours are great ;D
Hope it gets back on course for you.
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Will post another update when there is a bit more movement on the lower front.
Nothing gastric here I hope ;D
Do keep us posted, news and pics always appreciated. IF we ever get moved I want to plant more of my crocus out in the new garden so this is an especially interesting thread. Thanks Paul.
Tony,
Er, there was an "f" missing...... should have read "more movement on the flower front". I think I shall go back and fix that type. ::)
Glad this may be of use, as well as interest. The biggest thing I can suggest is definitely the baskets...... makes it very easy to find anything, particularly next summer when they're dormant. ;D Good luck with the move.
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Er, there was an "f" missing...... should have read "more movement on the flower front".
I just read it as when there was more flowering on the lower front... i.e. when the lower part of the new bed had more flowers in! ::) I did like the concern for your innards, though!! ;)
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I read it like that too Maggi so perhaps it's only men who are concerned with their low......no, won't go there. ;D
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perhaps it's only men who are concerned with their low......no, won't go there. ;D
Let's not!
cheers
fermi
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I just read it as when there was more flowering on the lower front... i.e. when the lower part of the new bed had more flowers in! ::) I did like the concern for your innards, though!! ;)
I read it like that too Maggi so perhaps it's only men who are concerned with their low......no, won't go there. ;D
And I read it like that too! ;D :)
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And I fixed the original TYPO, so can we stop this discussion? ;D ;) It was just that, a typo, no second meaning or undercurrent. Honest!! :o ;D
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Flowering now in the crocus garden...... Crocus rujanensis, at least I think I got the right tag when I went looking?
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Very nice one Paul. I don't know that species at all except by name. Everything under snow here at present. :'(
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Flowering now in the crocus garden...... Crocus rujanensis, at least I think I got the right tag when I went looking?
Looks like you did :)
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Thanks Tony. I really like it. This has always done very well for me, I think until last year where it nearly died out. I am hoping that this one that is flowering now isn't the only flowering sized one remaining, but unfortunately that could be the case. Still, if it recovers and grows as well as it used to, then it should multiply up again pretty quickly. Thanks for the name confirmation. 8)
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Lesley,
Sorry to hear about the snow. Sounds like you're getting our regularly forecast (but seldom actually happening) rain.... only in the form of snow. Expect more over the next while too.... forecast 9'C here and showers/rain on Tuesday and Wednesday. Even if we don't get the rain yet again, it'll probable come over to you as snow. Sorry!! ::)
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Flowering now in the crocus garden...... Crocus rujanensis, at least I think I got the right tag when I went looking?
Good Morning Paul ,
yes your Cr. rujanensis looks true, it is very close to Cr.sieberi. I raised it from seed received in 1992 from Dr. Novica Randjelovic , collected Mamince ,Presevo , Yugoslavia . It is a very easy plant here in my garden and seeds about , but is welcome to do so .
very cold here - feels like snow - so all the hundreds of snowdrops should feel comfortable in my garden - but I prefere to be inside .
Otto.
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Thanks for the confirmation of rujanensis Otto. I've only ever had laevigatus and tommasinianus seed around for me, but then again most of my crocus have come from single bulbs rather than being grown from seed, so they may set seed somewhat less easily.
A pic taken today..... Crocus pestalozzae var caerulea which is a new addition this year. Love the colouration with an almost picotee edging on the tips of the petals. Wonderful colour. Also flowering today was Crocus korolkowii but I haven't posted a pic of it here as Lesley's dark throated form she posted the other day in the southern hemisphere thread was so much nicer!! ;)
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Looks very nice Paul - the darker veining at the edges is great ! 8)
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Love the colouration with an almost picotee edging on the tips of the petals. Wonderful colour.
And a wonderful picture too Paul!
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Paul that is a very nice form which I have never seen so dark one on wild.
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And also I am iteresting with your new crocus garden. I wish to see underside of your baskets or plastic pots. How large holes they have? I afraid from summer rains like that!! May it sweat in plastic pots? or not?
I think if the pots were clay I would be quite carefree for several years!
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Ibrahim,
The whole thing is mesh, no solid sides of plastic at all. I have a few more empty ones of them out in the garage so if I get a chance to photograph one I'll post a pic for you. If not tomorrow, then it will be Sunday most likely before I do it, as I am off on Friday to give a talk on Friday night at a garden club a couple of hours north of here. Won't be back until Saturday evening. Still trying to put the darn Powerpoint Presentation together..... wish the darn thing would automatically shrink pictures to screen size but NO, I have to manually resize everything for use. Aaaaaaargh!!
Anyway, that aside, glad people enjoyed the last pic. I am hoping it will multiply well as I think a good clump of it would be absolutely delightful! 8)
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Paul,
I agree with Luc - very nice C.pestalozzae var caerulea 8)
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Howdy All,
A couple of things are flowering in the new crocus garden at the moment.....
Crocus corsicus, which I put some closer pics of in the southern hemisphere crocus thread, Narcissus bulbocodium 'Galligaskins' which was one or two bulbs last year and so far has at least 28 flowers or buds. Pretty spectacular to multiply that quickly. First of the solid yellows to flower for me, up until now everything has been white or creamy yellow. And lastly a clump of Narcissus romieuxii 'Julia Jane'. They are looking wonderful against the sand mulch I find, has worked out very well I think.
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Paul,
super! C. corsicus one of my favourite! 8) 8) 8)
brgds
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Thanks Armin,
I have to ask..... brgds?
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I have to ask..... brgds?
Brigands? braggards? bored gods?
Best regards?
chrs
f
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I'd wondered whether it was "best regards", but figured I should ask, just in case I was being insulted or something? ;) ;D
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Now , now, this is indeed "Best Regards".... Armin is a real gentleman, you know 8)
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Actually, if it had been one of these people who like to remain anonymous and we don't have a real name for.... I would have thought they were signing it as Beauregarde (is that how it is spelt?). Glad ot have sorted it out, as I just hadn't come across that concatenation before. Thanks All. 8)
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Lovely pictures Paul, C. corsicus is one of my favourites, and you've grown it to perfection!
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Arisaema,
Actually, far from perfection this year. The flowers are smaller than usual due to the patch of warmth early last spring which triggered an early dormancy. I would hope that the little patch I have in the basket in the crocus garden will be almost solid flowers next year, with larger flowers. And given how nice they look this year they'll be stunning next year!! ;)
Glad everyone is enjoying the pics. Thanks for the comments.
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Great to see how your Crocus garden evolves Paul ! Keep them coming ! 8)
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Thanks Armin,
I have to ask..... brgds?
Paul,
brgds = best regards ;D
Thank you Maggie for your appraisal ;)
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A couple of things flowering in the crocus garden today (not including the Crocus minimus which i posted in the southern hemisphere thread)..... Colchicum luteum is always such a strong colour in the depth of winter, and it is having at least a couple of flowers this year which is nice. Will try self-pollinating again this year just in case it decides it will do it successfully, but never has yet. ::) Also the first flower on Narcissus cordubensis which isn't a wonderful form of the species but it is all I have, and another picture of the clump of Narcissus romieuxii 'Julia Jane' which is looking better and better every day. Great flowerer, and brilliant as a clump on display like this.
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Makes me feel almost 'springlike' ;D
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As requested by Luc, here's a pic of my Crocus Garden as at 21st April 2009. Very little repotting done this season unfortunately, but from last year things have definitely improved by being here instead of in their previous pots. I'm intending to scrape back the sand and put some slow release bulb food down, then cover back over and top up the sand "mulch" to cover some of the rims which are in view. This should give everything a feed despite my lack or repotting. ::) The taller mauve thing in the middle is Moraea polystachya, which has been in flower for a month already. The clump in the bottom left is Crocus pulchellus.
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And a pic of my little clump of C. tournefortii that have never flowered like this in a pot before, so they're obviously liking the garden. They're just to the right of the Moraea in the garden picture. And there are actually 3 more corms that have sent up buds since this pic was taken, so by tomorrow the clump should be even more impressive. ;D
Enjoy.
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Thanks Paul !
Always nice to see how somebody else's work is getting along... :P
I'll be expecting this to be covered in flowers in a couple of years time ! 8)
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Luc,
Given that it contains a mix of spring and autumn species, as well as Narcissus bulbocodiums etc and smaller Narcissus, plu Iris retics.... it will definitely never be covered in flowers in autumn, but with a better display in spring of an assortment of things. Hopefully the retic irises will have bulked up a bit this year and get more flowers. Those I probably will manage to repot even though they probably already have roots on them. I'll try one and see whether the roots are through the mesh, and if they are then I won't repot any of them because it will be too damaging.
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Howdy again All,
I've got another pic of the whole garden about a week ago, once i get it prepared to post. I just wanted to comment here just how different the flowering is from the crocus this year compared to years "precrocus garden".... unbelievable. I can only imagine what the future will hold as more of the struggling crocus from pots mature back to flowering size. Hopefully most will be up there for next season, but this season has been amazing. I still have pulchellus in flower more than a month after they started, and C. mathewii is still having the odd flower. I've never had ANYTHING like the length of flowering that I've had for some of them this year, and I've never had this many of them actually flower as far as I know. It helps having so many together, but I don't think that is the only reason. I would highly recommend doing this sort of thing to anyone who is, like I was, growing in small pots that get too warm too early. 8)
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Paul nice that Your hard work paid off so well then.
I did try some crocus in pots but did not do well with them and they got better when planted in the open garden but then it was to late for most of them. If I had made a crocusgarden maybe they would have recovered already?
Well done and nice to know it is possible to grow them in warm climate.
All the best
Joakim
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Joakim,
The key in the warm climates I think is to making sure that they don't get too hot too early. I have had problems the last few years with a warm patch in September/early October each year which has pushed them into dormancy earlier than they should be doing so. This has been magnified due to the black plastic pots I grow them in, and them heating up in the sun (we have got a week of 30'C or so at that time for the last 3 years or so..... then cooler again for another month after that). The insulation of the garden means that a week or this sort of heat doesn't warm them up enough to go into dormancy I think, so they last through to that next month of cooler weather, so they set up better corms for the next year's flowering. Thankfully our -8'C or so in winter is cold enough to give them the winter cool that they like. I've had more than 6 weeks flowering on some of them so far this year, which is WELL more than I have ever had before, and far more flowers on some types than ever before.
I am now planning a second bed out the back under the washing line. Maybe not as "artistic" as the front one, because it needs to be flat so there is no problem with the washing on the line, but it will also be for things like Crocus, smaller Narcissus and Iris reticulatas etc.
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Paul,
The one thing I noticed with the first bed was that you hadn't used a sheet of root barrier, despite it being close to trees. Would you use it next time?
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Rob,
Actually, there is geotextile cloth underneath it, for exactly that reason. No idea how well it will work, but theoretically it should impeded the roots at least to a degree. That was another reason for me intending to lift the pots and repot each year, so I could monitor root growth into the garden.
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Even heavy duty tarpaulin doesn't stop roots of Eucalyptus. They have come up through my potting mix piles, to the extent that the roots are now at least a metre ABOVE the base of the tree. ??? They seems to scent water a mile off and rush up towards the slightest bit of damp in the atmosphere.
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Here's a pic of my Crocus garden recently....
Things are doing absolutely brilliantly in some cases. The Hoop Petticoat daffs are producing wonderful clumps, and some of the Crocus species that were struggling are back and flowering brilliantly now. I'll be posting a bunch of pics into both the relevant topics shortly. 8)
Please click on the pic for a larger version. If pics are too large, please let me know.
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Decided I would post a couple of pics of some of the clumps here as well.....
Please click on the pic for a larger version. If pics are too large, please let me know.
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Here's a pic of my Crocus garden recently....
Things are doing absolutely brilliantly in some cases. The Hoop Petticoat daffs are producing wonderful clumps, and some of the Crocus species that were struggling are back and flowering brilliantly now. I'll be posting a bunch of pics into both the relevant topics shortly. 8)
Please click on the pic for a larger version. If pics are too large, please let me know.
Paul, just saw the new picture of your Evolution garden.
It’s looking better every time. The bulbs seem to thrive really good in this bed.
Very interesting to follow this development. Thank you for showing!
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It's looking very well, Paul.
Paddy
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I certainly have had better flowering on some of the crocus than ever before, particularly the length of flowering. They just seem to keep on sending up flowers, something I haven't had like this in pots before. I can't believe how long some of them have been in bloom for now. Also much better flowering than I have ever had on the Iris reticulatas before. Hopefully this is just a sign that all of them are starting to return to mature flowering bulbs and that over time I will end up having all of them in flower in clumps instead of just a flower here and there. I've also never had this many different ones flower in a give year.... I really should have been out pollinating them I guess, but I haven't been doing so except once or twice. ::)
Everything in the garden has a bit of a lean to them now.... very strong winds here the last couple of days and the Iris retics are all on a 45' angle at the moment, as is the Narcissus cordubensis! :o
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I love to see how your bulb garden gets along Paul !
The sandy mix, your climate + your expert growing ( :o ;)) clearly do the trick ! Have you got any Juno Iris in there ?? I'm sure they would like it just as much !
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No space Luc! Although there might be space right in the middle at the top. Could be worth thinking about..... thanks for the idea. ;D
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Howdy All,
An interesting side effect of my new crocus garden...... I have had seed set this year. Up until now I have only ever seen seed set on C. laevigatus and C. tommasinianus, but this year there is laevigatus, pulchellus, tournefortii, sieberi ssp sieberi, mathewii (the seeds of this last one are massive compared to the others) and cvijicii (I bought a second clone this year, and it obviously worked.... there are pods below ground as I checked today, but they're still below ground so I will leave them alone). Very, very cool. 8) I have no idea what hybridisation is possible amongst the crocus I had out in flower so I would imagine that some at least are hybrids. I guess I'll find out in a few years when they flower. ;D
Luc, if you're interested I can spare you a couple of seeds of the mathewii to go with the corm at the end of this season? And I probably have enough pulchellus to spare a few for someone who is interested. They are from the main clump of pulchellus that I posted pics of in the crocus topic this autumn.
So, I wonder if there will be any others that I haven't found as yet. It is amazing how some pods emerge to just at the ground level, while others shoot up on a tall stem. Very, very cool. 8) 8) 8)
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Thrilling Paul - no wonder you're so chuffed - can't wait 'til the next chapter 8)
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Howdy All,
An interesting side effect of my new crocus garden...... I have had seed set this year. Up until now I have only ever seen seed set on C. laevigatus and C. tommasinianus, but this year there is laevigatus, pulchellus, tournefortii, sieberi ssp sieberi, mathewii (the seeds of this last one are massive compared to the others) and cvijicii (I bought a second clone this year, and it obviously worked.... there are pods below ground as I checked today, but they're still below ground so I will leave them alone). Very, very cool. 8) I have no idea what hybridisation is possible amongst the crocus I had out in flower so I would imagine that some at least are hybrids. I guess I'll find out in a few years when they flower.
So, I wonder if there will be any others that I haven't found as yet. It is amazing how some pods emerge to just at the ground level, while others shoot up on a tall stem. Very, very cool. 8) 8) 8)
Great news Paul! From the species you list I would be surprised if any are hybrids. Yes, the sativus group (which includes C mathewii do have some of the largest seeds of any crocus (C pestalozzae has the smallest btw, much smaller than C sieberi which are quite wee!) Getting a different clone for intraspecific (within species) hybridisation can make a huge difference to seeed set.
Interested that you have C cvijicii outside, how hot/dry does it get? I have never had many and am loath to risk them in the garden although they should do OK.
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Thanks Robin.
Tony,
I have always grown cvijicii in a pot up until making this garden, so it got a lot hotter corm-wise than it does now. I have always kept them slightly damp and a little more shaded though. Since putting them into the garden they have gone crazy, multiplying like they never have before. Far more flowers this year. They are in the corner of the garden (far left in the main shots of the garden) where they get some summer shading (not much, but it helps) from the weeping apricot next to the garden. They also do get an occasional watering during summer, whereas the rest of the garden gets nothing except rain on the rare occasions it happens. ;D Summer temps here get to around 40'C at least once in summer, with plenty of above 35'C. I think the sand mulch on top helps to keep as much heat as possible out of the ground too.
I had a lot of different crocus in flower at the same time this year (so many of them flowered for so much longer than they ever had before, I think because of the size benefits of growing them in the garden now instead of pots), so there was a lot of overlap. Lots of bees around too. Not entirely sure what will cross with what, so I have no idea whether suitable partners were open at the same time. Still, if what I have listed seed of don't have that many that will cross with them, it bodes well. I was pleased to check and discover another seed pod below ground on the sieberi ssp seiberi this morning. It is the nice form with the dark outside.... now my seed count went from 2 seeds to 9 of them. Not much, but better than the 2 only that I had found yesterday. ;D
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Paul, it all sounds such fun with the new seed pod discoveries - can you show us 'uninitiated' a sample at some stage when you next look?
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Robin,
The only seedpods that are still in place are the cvijicii, as they are still underground. What I'll do is carefully scrape back the surface again and photograph them, then photograph them when they start to emerge. They still have their leaves on them as they're a bit later than many of the species that are already heading into dormancy (i.e the autumn and early winter ones). I'll try to remember to do that tomorrow.... a bit murky at the moment as heading towards 7pm here now.
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Look forward to that :D
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Paul,
I have my eye on a spot in the garden where I could very easily make a crocus bed in your style. To date I haven't been a crocus fan, just the odd clump of the sturdy cultivars here and there in the garden but I am impressed by your success and am very tempted to give it a try. However, there is a long list of "jobs" to be done in the garden and it will have to wait its turn.
Paddy
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It seems to be a good year for crocus seed here too, with pods on a number of species that haven't given any before. Haven't looked on the cvijicii as it's just a single clone, but here are first C. sieberi sublimis tricolor with 2 pods and 3 for C. longiflorus. There are about 20 pods altogether on the patch of longiflorus. :P
[attachthumb=1]
[attachthumb=2]
The pod stems will lengthen to about 2 cms before they open.
Is it correct Tony, that C. sativus is always sterile? I know the cultivated corms seem to be, but what about from the wild? You'd think that with that long and flashy stigma, it would be begging for it.
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Lesley,
I had some pods (laevigatus for example) that were open at ground level, and others that had pods on around a 7cm stem. Obviously some try to put the seeds right around the parent, while the others send them higher so that they topple over and spread the seed a few inches from the parent? I can only assume that is the reason, anyway?
Paddy,
In that case it was well worthwhile having posted my garden this way. If it inspires anyone to grow Crocus then fan-bleedin-tastic!! ;D
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Interested that you have C cvijicii outside, how hot/dry does it get? I have never had many and am loath to risk them in the garden although they should do OK.
I grew cvijicii for many years outside without any problems and only recently replaced stocks to pots where they don't feel so well as in open garden, but I must do so for safety from rodents. All residual stocks in open garden were eated by them. For this reason it disappear from my catalogue at present but now stocks again raise up. It well splits and very well set seeds.
Janis
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Janis,
It sets seed well when you have more than one clone. That is why mine has finally set seed.... I bought another clone from Marcus H in Tas (my original came from elsewhere, a gift from a friend who had grown his from seed). I tried pollinating every year where possible but never had seed set, whereas this year with the cross pollination between the two I have 3 seedpods set. I adore this species, and am very happy that mine is now multiplying well in the ground AND now setting seed for me to start more. 8)
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Janis,
It sets seed well when you have more than one clone. That is why mine has finally set seed.... I bought another clone from Marcus H in Tas (my original came from elsewhere, a gift from a friend who had grown his from seed). I tried pollinating every year where possible but never had seed set, whereas this year with the cross pollination between the two I have 3 seedpods set. I adore this species, and am very happy that mine is now multiplying well in the ground AND now setting seed for me to start more. 8)
Yes, I have several clones inclusive creamy white and between seedlings appear even purest white but in other aspects typical cvijicii. Some years ago in AGS bulletin was note that during full day was found 3 pure white specimens in wild between millions of bright yellow. Excellent plant which need some water in summer. One of my favourites.
Janis
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Janis,
Yes, I've admired your creamy forms when you've posted pics of them before. I hope they'll make it to Australia one day, but I realise I'm going to have to wait quite a while yet. ;D
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Paul , Crocus caspius always ripens the seedpods below ground here in my garden - so I
usually forget to collect it's seeds . Iris histrio v. aintabensis also ripens it's seedpot below
ground .
The last Crocus that flowered yesterday - a full month after all others - was a seedling
of C. veluchensis alba , not a very exciting shade of pale mauve-pink .
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Wow, Otto. Crocuses STILL going? :o :o Has been ages since my last Crocus flower here. But that was a purchase of veluchensis from Marcus this year, so it fits the timing cycle. Has been at least a couple of weeks since any sign of anything flower-wise though.
I've only ever had one pod on the retic type irises, that being a histrio pod last year. It was very visible above ground for quite some time. Despite pollinating between the retics on a number of occasions this year, it appears that none set seed unfortunately.
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I was about to remark that I had a couple of pods on caspius as well, but below the surface. A few years ago when I dug some corms to send away, the forkful of corm and soil was also full of just germinating seeds. I hastily put the whole lot back.
I also have a few pods on the Alan McMurtrie Iris reticulata hybrids.
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Janis,
Where do the cvijicii seedpods end up? Do they push above ground, or do they ripen underground? I never realised that some ripen UNDERground, always figuring they would push to the surface. Now I am wondering whether the cvijicii will do that, and if they don't then how do I tell when they're ripe?
Which other species never have their seedpods emerge? I'm just finding out now, so I can work out whether I need to go and check for underground seedpods on any of the species I am growing. :o
Thanks for any information.
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Janis,
Where do the cvijicii seedpods end up? Do they push above ground, or do they ripen underground? I never realised that some ripen UNDERground, always figuring they would push to the surface. Now I am wondering whether the cvijicii will do that, and if they don't then how do I tell when they're ripe?
Which other species never have their seedpods emerge? I'm just finding out now, so I can work out whether I need to go and check for underground seedpods on any of the species I am growing. :o
Thanks for any information.
I am sure Janis will have something to add but these are my experiences.
The only species that always ripens seed (just) below the surface is Crocus caspius. Others may have seed pods which don't make it above ground but this only happens when a sudden warming induces premature dormancy. In this latter case the seeds may be viable but are sometimes not fully developed or are 'damaged' by the early dormancy.
Crocus cvijicii should ripen above ground. The stem below the pod will lengthen rapidly when the time is right. Then, above ground, the pod ripens and splits open quite quickly ... so be on your guard!
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Thank you, exactly the information that I needed. Are the leaves still green on cvijicii when the pod matures? Mine are still very green, although the pods below ground are quite large.
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Paul, my Crocus korolkowii seeds never push above ground. I've also read, that the same goes for the
other two species in this series (orientalis): michelsonii and alatavicus, but I don't have experiences
with seed set on these two. Perhaps Ian or Janis can give more details.
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Otto my C. veluchensis alba open the colour of yours but fade to white
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Gosh Mark, they look lovely in the sunlight even if they fade ;)
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Janis,
Where do the cvijicii seedpods end up? Do they push above ground, or do they ripen underground? I never realised that some ripen UNDERground, always figuring they would push to the surface. Now I am wondering whether the cvijicii will do that, and if they don't then how do I tell when they're ripe?
Which other species never have their seedpods emerge? I'm just finding out now, so I can work out whether I need to go and check for underground seedpods on any of the species I am growing. :o
Thanks for any information.
There are four species which ripes below surface of ground - caspius and closely related to it Central Asian trio. But sometimes even their seedpods come out partly from ground. Other species normally pushes seedpod out of soil (cvijicii, too) but sometimes they open just at soil level or even partly underground. May be Tony is right - it is caused by sudden drought, but I'm not certain.
I prefair to collect seeds when seedpod starts to split. Then you will not loose seeds. By E.A. Bowles - he gently squeezed the seedpod between fingers - if it was hard, it was possible to harvest and left in box for final ripening. I did this a day before travel for not to loose some seed. Germination rate was the same as with ripened seeds. By my opinion - important is to saw as soon as possible. If seeds are well ripened - red,brown, black etc. - I try to saw them immediately, even in same day or next day. If seeds still are not completely ripened - white, pinkish, greenish - I leave them for few days in box and saw after final ripening. Otherwise they can rot. I can't to see great difference between keeping of seeds mixed with sand in plastic bag till autumn (used by Ian Young) and immediate sawing as it happens in nature.
About sawing depth - Ian recommends deep sawing (see one of earlier bulb logs), I'm covering seeds with 1 cm of sharp sand and 1 cm of stone chips. Seeds germinate well. My be Ian's style helps to keep more even moisture. I didn't experimented as seeds germinate very well in my style, too. By me for a lot of bulbs (Crocus, Iris, Erythroniums, Corydalis etc. most important is sawing as early as only possible. Not so important with Tulipa, Fritillaria, Allium, Muscari, Scilla, Ornithogalum etc. Of course the best to finish sawing in September or first days of October. More you can read in my book BURIED TREASURES still available from Timber Press (second printing).
Janis
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Thank you, exactly the information that I needed. Are the leaves still green on cvijicii when the pod matures? Mine are still very green, although the pods below ground are quite large.
Wait, wait, wait! Green leaves will build up not only new corm but seeds, too. So wait! See previous entry.
Janis
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Janis,
I certainly would never do anything to the green leaves, rest assured. I realise that they are feeding both the corm and the developing seeds. What I was surprised by was how big the seedpods already are, yet the leaves are all still very green. It's great, as it means that everything is still producing food so well, but I was asking about whether the seedpods open while the leaves are still green in case I needed to watch more closely now. Otherwise, I'll be watching the leaves for them to start dying off before I expect the seed to actually be ripe. In all the others I harvested seed from the leaves were in the process of dying off, or had already done so. Only one other had pods as large as the cvijicii, and that was the mathewii. It had it's leaves dying off already, so the size of the cvijicii pods was a surprise as it still seemed to be growing fairly strongly.
As I said, all this is new to me as I haven't had many seed on my crocus before, other than tommasinianus which always sets seed happily in the garden here.
Thanks again everyone for your help. I'm slowly learning. 8)
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Good to see you appreciate your greens Paul. :)
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Lesley,
Actually, I do. I just love spinach. Mmmm Mmm!! ;D
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Me too, especially in a salad or just thrown into a stir fry at the last moment before serving. I rarely cook it. Oh darn, I seem to be straying into the Cooks' Corner again. :)
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I promised pics of the cvijicii pods I think, so here is a pic of the pod unearthed, and what it looked like "above ground" at the time (i.e just the green leaves).
Enjoy.
Please click on the pic for a larger version.
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Paul, thanks so much for posting the pod - never seen it before, it's amazing, does it come above the ground when ripe to disperse its seeds?
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Robin,
I photographed this afternoon the seedpod above ground. Despite how large it looks in these pics, by the time it dries and emerges above ground it is tiny. Still has a few seeds per pod, perhaps 12 or 15 for the 3 pods I harvested today. I haven't processed the pics I took today as yet, but will post here when I have prepared them.